Will Brittain Ever Quit Its Ridiculous Wigs?

It really is stupid that they haven't let go of that tired old silly tradition yet.

They should quit the Monarchy while they’re at it too.

Know it alls, yet at least one can't spell Britain correctly. I think the tradition of wearing wigs for lawyers and judges is a fine one despite the fact that it costs alot of money to have one made. I understand that some lawyers share the cost of a wig and take turns wearing it in court when required. I imagine law firms keep a few on hand as spares too. The British will abolish the monarchy, if ever, when they are ready to do so, not when others think it needs to be done. It was tried in the 17th century under the Cromwell Puritan protectorate, but was restored with Charles II, son of Charles I who was executed at the end of the English Civil War ushering in the Cromwells (Richard and Oliver). The wigs are worn for a reason and they will discontinue them, as with the monarchy, when they see fit.

Charles Prince of Wales will presumably be Charles III if he becomes king although he doesn't necessarily have to take that name. Some are thinking he may be George VII partly in honor of his grandfather George VI who led Britain through World War II.

Perhaps part of the reason for the wigs is to enhance the dignity of the court and thereby the law of the land or realm. It's part of ceremony and ceremony is important to human society from primitive tribes to "advanced" post-industrial nations. Someone British might be able to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think lawyers and barristers in England at least (not sure about Scotland which has its own legal system) practice law on behalf of the Queen and it's the monarch who at least theoretically sets the decorum of the court. At least that's how I've come to understand it.

[quote]R3 The wigs are worn for a reason ...

Which is?

Imagine all the cases of head-lice from all the lawyers sharing wigs... (shudder)

I love watching a lot of British crime shows, but when they pop on those silly wigs, it just undercuts the maturity of all involved.

They look like kids playing dress-up.

Please don't decide my fate...

OP, well done for saying Brittain [sic] instead of 'england', as most Americans with a nasty chip on their shoulder about the country do, kudos to you.

r5, see r4, then do your own research to find out even more and contribute it here.

Yes....I said Britain (or mistyped it, actually) as IRELAND had the COURAGE last year to stand up in mass protest and ABOLISH the foolish, motheaten things.

This, I admire.

[quote]Perhaps part of the reason for the wigs is to enhance the dignity of the court and thereby the law of the land or realm.

But it does [italic] not [/italic] enhance the dignity of the court.

It makes the grown lawyers look like babyish fools.

r13, to some maybe, to others maybe not. I hope the wigs and gowns stay as they at least represent continuity with the past and law is often based on precedent. It doesn't surprise me that the Irish discontinued them because they are a republic (and have been since the 1920s) and not even part of the Commonwealth. I think some Commonwealth countries also continue the practice of wearing the wigs. The United States, when it became a federal republic also did away with wigs if I'm not mistaken but the idea of the wigs was new in the 17th and 18th centuries. Obviously the United States did keep the idea of wearing a gown for its judges, but it may depend on the state.

I feel Britain must do as we do in the U.S., and chuck them.

Follow our lead. The world is laughing at you.

That is all.

r15, We British are not accustomed to following anyone's "lead", not even necessarily that of our "eldest daughter", the United States of America. We mustn't do anything we ourselves (to take a phrase from the Irish) determine. The wigs will stay or go as WE determine in our own good time. Whether or not the world is "laughing" is hardly something that makes the determination. The world is laughing at your president right now, but, there he remains.

If Ireland discontinued wigs just recently then I'm surprised they kept them this long--consider the source.

[quote]R16 We British are not accustomed to following anyone's "lead", not even necessarily that of our "eldest daughter", the United States of America.

This made me laugh : )

OP is Nancy Mitford.

[quote] [R16] We British are not accustomed to following anyone's "lead", not even necessarily that of our "eldest daughter", the United States of America.

Mary!

R20

OMG....I just finished reading [italic] this [/italic] ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

(no court scenes, tho)

R20 I believe THIS thread is for YOU!

r18, I'm so glad it amused you, but it holds true, nonetheless.

They don't even look like hair; they look like looped carpet.

The look very Mardi Gras, or "fancy dress" as they say over there.

What would happen if someone wore this one?

This is on my mind tonight because I am watching the series SILK....and it reminds me how it always undercuts the drama.

It makes me think, "Am I really supposed to take the outcome seriously? GET IT TOGETHER!"

r25, I think your question is rhetorical.

No....really, if a barrister wore that to court, would the judge have them remove it, in which case there would have to be a postponement (?), or would they continue in it, and get fined?

Can Americans practice law in Britain, if they pass the tests? Do they have to sign a pledge to "Take the wig," or is there a waiver if you're not a citizen?

What WOULD happen if someone on the legal team showed up in that? What if it's all they had (due to fire) and they tied it back in a somber ponytail?

r26, defendants who don't take the court, the proceedings and the outcome as seriously as they ought sometimes end up charged with contempt of court which even the American judicial system has. I'm afraid we've had it "together" as you say as far as our judicature is concerned for a good many centuries before the United States of America was even a glint in anyone's eye. Much of your legal system is based upon ours.

Well R16, you might want to talk to Tony Blair about that.

[quote]R29 contempt of court which even the American judicial system has.

Yes, but these have to do with procedures and evidence actually pertaining to the facts, and the presentation of it. Not with what the attorneys are wearing....which has nothing to do with any crime being argued.

An attorney's wardrobe has nothing to do with the specifics of any matter before the bar.

I saw a pic of Amal Clooney wearing a wig in a courtroom and she looked completely silly. I'm sure she's embarrassed as hell wearing that thing and puts in under the table when the cameras come on.

She's risking being dragged to the stockades!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

r31, even on Judge Judy I have heard her upbraid people merely attending court on how they are dressed, especially women with low cut necklines. She usually asks them sarcastically if they need a shawl and then more forcefully where they thought they were coming today, the beach?! If it is important even for defendants and plaintiffs to appear properly attired in court, how much moreso is it for lawyers and judges to do so as well? Everyone is in court, not some dance club.

R79, and yet you still have a constitutional monarchy, and hereditary governmental seats. Might "the wig", so expensive ppl have to share the cost, simply be another obstacle people to equal access to the legal system.

r34, she's still wearing the gown though.

Do American judges not wear robes?

Also aren't judges in the US elected to the position by their political beliefs? sounds like a good system.....

r38, I think upthread that was mentioned--I'm fairly sure most American judges wear robes or gowns but I'm going to guess it depends on the state. It may also depend on the state as to whether judges are elected or appointed and if appointed, by whom or what. I'm sure you know that in the Supreme Court of the United States the justices are all in robes and if there is an address, say by the president, to a joint session of Congress, there is a section set off for seating of the Supreme Court to hear the address. This is always done when the state of the union address is given by the president. You might also notice that the justices never applaud but sit quietly even if there is loud applause from the Congress because they must show impartiality. So you see, even in the American system, ceremony counts for a great deal. Wigs are part of Britain's ceremony. When Britain had capital punishment, the judge took off his wig and placed a black scarf on his head to pronounce sentence of death.

Black robes are not as artificial as powdered wigs. If anything, they're neautral.

THESE are far from neutral:

R39, you have missed the point.

It's not about ceremony, it's about cost.

Very provincial to find foreign practices so threatening. I have always noticed Americans are real sticklers for titles and authority veneration.

From the way they address the speaker of the house 'Mr Speaker' for the rest of his life long after he left office, down to calling the trainer of a small high school sports team 'Coach [html removed]', or addressing police officers as sir. And all that's before we get to the slavish devotion and worship of the military and the flag in schools/sports games/TV ect.

I would have thought Americans would love a bit of authoritative uniform wearing.....

R38, some judges are elected, some judges are appointed (surpreme/appellate), in the US. In England, and I could be wrong, I think they are all appointed.

And of course, in a country which has a monarchy, I am sure it's always fair to the little guy. At least that's what the Irish in Leeds tell me.

Wikipedia has an interesting entry on "Court Dress" if anyone wants further information on wigs, what they mean, current status as in who wants to keep them and who doesn't, etc. Also, when pronouncing sentence of death the black cap went over the judge's wig, he didn't remove it. And yes, r41, apparently court dress is very expensive which is why they try to keep these articles of attire in as best repair as possible as some are handed down as I've read in another website called Sixth Law Form.

[quote]R42 I would have thought Americans would love a bit of authoritative uniform wearing.....

We like uniforms....just not ones that look STUPID.

r43 'england' ahahaha you always give your selves away with that.

And you're supreme court judges are still overtly political, in the UK it is unheard of for a judge to offer up their personal political opinions and rightly so.

Hearing US judges elected/appointed by partisan political opinion sounds like something out of Gulliver Travels.

You are OUT OF ORDER!!

Wigs make a show!

Speak for yourself r45, I'm American and what you think is stupid and what I think is stupid are not necessarily one and the same.

British Whataboutism. We'te talking about UK wigs.

Wigs are stupid and look ridiculous unless you're doing a remake of "Amadeus".

All other opinions are invalidated by bad taste.

R49 No....this really does look stupid and silly....to all adults.

What do YOU see when you look upon this?? (note handmaidens) (are they paid??)

Then what do you think about guards regiments outside the Tower of London, Buckingham Palace in their traditional dress uniforms?

r46, I have my doubts about you being British because I think the average citizen there must know that England and Scotland have separate judicial systems. In England a jury must find whether the defendant is innocent or guilty, in Scotland there is an outcome which is "not proven" which is not legal in England. So maybe r43 can have the last laugh at you also for your misspelling "your"--you're is a contraction for "you are".

It’s just like school uniform

In the US, the judges wear robes and jurors, lawyers, etc are all supposed to dress appropriately like no jeans or shorts, slippers, etc.

I can see the wigs being worn 100 years ago but it looks ridiculous now.

[quote]R52 Then what do you think about guards regiments outside the Tower of London, Buckingham Palace in their traditional dress uniforms?

They are tourist attractions. Like the Swiss Guard at the Vatican.

[quote]R54 It’s just like school uniform

I think school uniforms are good, because they put all the students, who are from different economic backgrounds, on an even playing field as far as clothing....which can get really competitive about wardrobe.

Or Mickey Mouse at Disneyland. They're fun to take pictures with and maybe mouse-fuck behind the $20 pretzel stand during the light show.

^^ Well, THAT didn't make sense, gramatically.

Sorry.

And just like football, no ridiculous American football gear

r51, I regard it as their custom, not necessarily something to laugh at. If all you can do to make your own case or point is run down somebody else's way of doing things that happens to work for them then you don't have much yourself.

R46 isn't English. Even chavs know the difference between they, they are, and their.

And, yeah, I used England intentionally. You must have misread my statement about the Irish in Leeds.

Who needs a wig when you wear your hair like that ?

[quote]R60 And just like football, no ridiculous American football gear

American football is much rougher and tougher on the body than your no-contact soccer.

Our brave boys putting their lives on the line in this great game deserve protection!

R63 Washington would not be taken seriously these days, what with the powdered hair and all.

I beg the Brits to reconsider the whole wig thing. It is an EMBARRASMENT. Of global proportions.

[quote] or addressing police officers as sir.

We're afraid they're going to shoot us.

^ truth

It is best, I think, to address them as "Officer". It shows you understand their role. "Sir" could be anyone.

R63 it’s rugby

Sorry R64

R64 It is because American football is more sissified

"But Officer, my husband was in that house!'

[quote]R71 It is because American football is more sissified

WHAT??? Our HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS play your version of "football"!

Your "footballers" might as well wear COURT WIGS!

r62 So you're trying to position yourself as some kind of bleeding heart with your constant references to "the irish in Leeds", what ever the fuck that is. Yet you throw around a hateful, prejudiced word like 'chavs'.

Americans with this weird stick up their arse about British people always use 'england' instead of it's proper name, that's how you can spot them a mile off. Ask any British person that lives in America or works with Americans.

The sort of people you seem to hate for liking this ceremonial dress, i.e. snobby, stuffy, upper class, bigoted English people, are the exact type of people who would use a word like 'chav' to refer to working class people, or anyone else beneath them.

R73 Can you say sissies ?

R74 = Northerner

r56 Americans always come out with this shit which is really surprising given Americans cult like worship of it's military and the way they flip out if anyone does anything to 'disrespect the troops'.

They're proper soldiers, that is the dress uniform of that particular regiment, Guard regiment's HQ's are in central London a lot of them will have been in Iraq and Afganistan ect.

Yet none of that makes the wigs worn on the UK legal system any less ridiculous, r77.

[quote]R75 Can you say sissies ?

Well, let's just say I know one when i SEE one....

The red ones can double as Santa’s suit. All good.

Look, if I want to see a man in a wig, I'll watch Ru Paul's DRAG RACE.

NOT a serious legal proceeding where fates and lives are decided.

R79 Only sissies wear protective gear playing football

Meanwhile in Hong Kong

Op, you forgot AUSTRALIA

But seriously, what [italic] adult [/italic] wants to go into a profession where they wear a powdered horsehair WIG to work??

Probably a more serious-minded group of people would enter law if that whole wig mess were simply delegated to the dustbin of history,.

We need to hear from actual British lawyers who are trapped in these things.

There are all made by one Manx woman.

This one?

Oh. Wrong pussy ref.

R86 She looks fine to me

It's even sillier when colonial wannabes wear these wigs. You still see it in HK. Hopefully China will abolish it eventually. That and driving on the wrong side of the street.

Canadian Supreme Court

Ho, ho, ho!

George loves when I wear mine

r94, meet r90

R94 is slow

R74, I said you're not English. Why aren't you outraged that I would insult you like that????

Unless you're not English.

U are throwing a hissy fit because I made a joke about tony Blair. Tony fucking Blair.

Are you old enough to know who Tony Blair is?????

I can’t believe this is still a thing. Looks like something out of the 1700s.

It's called tradition. Preserving it is called culture. You Americans wouldn't know.

Wigs and robes are not just used in England...they are used throuout the Commonwealh. We use the wig tradition in Canada. Don't be concerned about our wigs and just focus on your gun control laws so no more school children are murdered!

They'll give them up when gays stop mincibg, lisping and prancing.

Pretty soon baldies William and Harry will take to the wig. The wig isn't going anywhere!

[quote]Will Brittain Ever Quit Its Ridiculous Wigs?

Ridiculous misspelling — should be “Wiggs.”

Some of the shorter wigs are fierce, with the side curls and tiny ponytails in the back. Very on trend right now, very chic. The long ones look like car mats. England, get it together and put some thought into the long wigs. Think flow, think movement, think sun-kissed Malibu summer. What is the English equivalent of Malibu? Think that. “Silky” is my word du jour.

Every barrister becomes an English rose when he puts on a wig.

They are very expensive.

r53 here, I should clarify by saying that a defendant is innocent until proven guilty in both Scotland and England, Scotland has the further provision of "not proven".

Now as for r74, I hardly think a chav would be insulted or offended by anything, especially being called a chav--if the shoe fits, wear it. Also: Americans with this weird stick up their arse about British people always use 'england' instead of it's proper name, that's how you can spot them a mile off. Ask any British person that lives in America or works with Americans. The correct way of spelling the possessive of it is its, no apostrophe, what you are saying is "instead of it is proper name" as it's is a contraction of it is. Also it's (properly used) "ask any British person WHO lives in America".---All this incorrect rubbish and yet I and others are supposed to take you seriously merely because wigs upset you so. I think 6 of the best with trousers down would be in order for you, young man.

Could someone translate r107? Thanks.

r108 He's a posho twat basically

If you're that simple as to need a "translation" r108 then you either are mentally challenged, semi-literate or both.

Wearing robes and wigs obscures the personal identities of judges and barristers thereby making their outward appearance more closely match their professional function as indifferent officers of the Queen's justice.

Also, it gives the whole court business a sense of OCCASION.

John Mortimer wrote an episode of Rumpole comparing the theatre of the court to actual theatre. You can hear Mortimer in the intro talking about it.

I don't think Dailymotion allows links, you can find the episode on their website, but I will try it a different way.

They do look ridiculous. Carpets.

Not as ridiculous as this group of Americans

Ok R115, let’s settle down.

You're on your own R108.

R107 would have us believe the country that invented plantation slavery and still has a constitutional monarchy is uptight Bill Bailey level jokes about its wigs.

I think a 14 year old Anglophile spilled hot tea on on his crotch.

I'm with R108 too. I cannot understand a thing R107 said. Is that English or Cockney English?

It's a 14 year old American kid defending the honor of the Queen.

Will American Judges ever give up those robes (secret caftans)?

Little known fact - but this is not the only wig that barristers have to wear

Oh when will British judges give up their hideous, crablouse filled Merkins?!! The Queen needs to end this practice, not only is it hot and itchy, it also looks unsightly on the 80 year old white judges.

The guys who keep responding about "what about America" sound exactly like the Russian trolls. I mean, EXACTLY. Making me wonder if most are Brits after all.

[quote]Will Brittain Ever Quit Its Ridiculous Wigs?

Seriously. “Brittain?”

Who attached the electrical hooksups to site 14?

R121 I, for one, find that excessive.