Flyover queen who loves her some good ol'' U S of A.
Torontonian here. Not born here but living here for forty years. It's a nice place and it seems to be on the verge of emerging from its wanna be chrysalis. Sure there's crime here, but it's mostly located in high-crime areas and not really in the downtown core. Public transit could definitely be improved, but I'll reserve further comment until I see what our new mayor has planned (it looks like the new Eglinton Don Mills to Jane subway is a sure thing).
The gay village is what it is. Mostly for couples nowadays although there are steam rooms, strip bars and sex/swinger clubs nearby. The new Loblaws in the old Maple Leaf Gardens will definitely improve foot traffic as will a score of new condos proposed for the area. Yonge Street is our downtown "42nd Street" slash "Shunjuku" area, full of neon but rapidly stripping itself of dollar stores, XXX video places and nail parlours and being replaced by (even more) condos. Queen West area east of Spadina is an outdoor upscale mall as is Yorkville. The King Street club district is still peppered with boozecans filled with suburban/exurban troublemakers on weekend, although these are being replaced by homeless shelters, Marshall's (!) and yes more condos.
The city is undergoing massive building boom that will transform the waterfront that will change from old wharves and factories into, lol, more condos.
The city seems to be finally growing into it's own skin and not being concerned with trends in other places. The arts are good, particularly the indie and urban music scenes. It's going to be interesting to see how all this changes the city in the next decade.
Few Canadian born citizens live in Toronto these days. Most left in the 1990s, moving to Barrie, Burlington/Oakville - west or Whitby - east.
The highways are parking lots and crime is sky rocking. The foreign money (most from Hong Kong) flooding the city is making real estate prices insane!. The old Church and Wellesley Gay Village is largely gone. Queen (Queer) Street West is where the rich white gays flee the suburbs to, with the help of parents money for condos.
Toronto just elected an extreme right wing Major, Rob Ford, who attacked the Gay community for years as a councilman.
Toronto never did have much of a creative culture. Copy cat versions of NYC shows and American Rap and Euro bands, nothing original or even very successful, even less now. City TV was the culture center, but was bought out by the Conservative, CTV network and is now Canadian Idol and So You Think You Can Dance Canada. That is the symbolic photocopy culture in Toronto today. Justin Bieber was the biggest draw this year at the MMVA music awards. That says a lot about what has happened to Toronto in the last 20 years.
Toronto is no longer New York run by the Swiss, but Franchise City, now run by an anti-gay right wing Mayor, who looks like a fat Rush Limbaugh.
Go for Montreal or Vancouver.
Warning to fellow U.S. citizens fantasizing about moving to Canada to escape the neocons: the current Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, is a fully owned subsidiary of the RNC.
Just delightful. I loooove upstate New York!
You have just described every other Cabadian city, R8. Toronto is way better and less uptight than in the 80''s, or have you forgotten the Censor Board, police raids on gay bathhouses, liquor laws, Sunday closing etc. You seem selective and bitter.
LOL @ R8--He''s obviously hasn''t been to Vancouver recently. No "non-whites" there nor crime nor gang wars. \
My fellow Canadians sometimes can be dim.
r8 posts the same shit on every Toronto thread.\
I for one am happy most Canadians have left the city.
R8 = a very bitter and defeated George Smitherman
I''ve lived here for 20 years..love it. I''ve travelled alot and when I come back to T.O, I feel at home.
I''d be on the islands every chance I got if I lived there. %0D\
I love Toronto.
the trick is to live and work downtown otherwise you''ll be miserable.
Both Halifax and Ottawa are better than Toronto. Halifax has good culture, and Ottawa is becoming a lively city as well (and yes, they speak both languages there, but most people are English speaking only).
We have gone from having 8 bathhouses in the city of Toronto to only 5 now.
poor R8...racism clouds your judgement!\
Toronto''s been immigration central since day one, and is the better for it. Multiculturalism and Diversity are more than just buzzwords here, they are ways of life.\
By the way....if your idea of "creativity" can be measured by what a big tv station is doing, I suggest you get out and explore the thriving independent and mid-size theatre scene, the arts & culture events that happen everywhee, and the politically active lgbtq scene. Yes, Ford is mayor but we have new councillors like Kristyn Wong-Tam (out lesbian, chinese-canadian) who won''t let him get away with much.
The fact that the citizens of Toronto voted for a right wing Major over an openly Gay one, tells you a lot about who lives in Toronto today.\
Look at how the Toronto media slammed the protesters at the G20 summit. Toronto is not the "Good" anymore.
Umm--the openly gay mayor Toronto rejected looked like he never believed one word he was saying. He felt he was entitled to the top city job and even he admitted after he lost that he never stayed on message. \
By the way, Miller would have probably won a third term over Ford. Despite his flaws, he was miles ahead of Smitherman.
I''ve lived in Toronto for 10 years now and I''m feeling sort of ambivalent towards it. If it weren''t for a tenured (and well paid) position at a university I''d seriously think about moving since my partner is pretty much employable anywhere in the world. It''s a fairly "beige" city without any interesting architecture and its cultural scene is really mediocre for a city that likes to call itself "world class". Public transit system is in shambles, as is the most of its infrastructure. It''s also become quite expensive and, I believe, is now ranked as one of the top 10 most expensive cities in the world. The population, at least downtown, is very passive-aggressive. The upside is that it''s a very multicultural city and it''s (still) a very socially liberal place.
Toronto has the best public transit in the hemisphere. I don''t get what all the "shambles" crap is about.%0D\
It has buses, trains, trams, subway...
I agree...it''s a little expensive for transit but it''s excellent. I don''t get all the bitching about it
Yeah, except when you really need it and there are no streetcars arriving for more than 20 minutes until you finally give up and hail a cab. And, remind me, how many subway lines do we have as a city of nearly 5 million people? And is it possible to get to the airport from downtown using public transit, as is the case in any city of a similar size?
It takes 3 hours to get across Toronto (east-west) using public transit. TTC is terrible!
You have to know French OP, it''s all French speaking!
How many subway lines does any city of 5 million have R27? You try getting around Atlanta or Houston sometime and then you get back to us.%0D
Toronto is like New York, if New York didn''t have any Puerto Ricans or ghetto blacks.
Houston?? Atlanta?? Compare it to the cities that it aspires to be like, such as NYC, Chicago, Boston, Montreal, pretty much any major European city...
R31 have you heard of the Jane & Finch corridor? Obviously not. It has the biggest Jamaican gang problem in the world, outside of Jamaica. Over 50% of the murders in Toronto are related to Jamaican gangs.\
Toronto has few Puerto Ricans, the largest immigrant population by far, is recently immigrated Chinese.
In which case Toronto fails utterly and miserably, R32. %0D\
Sorry, but those are just delusions of grandeur for an ugly, not very grand city.
I find it amusing that other Canadians still bash Toronto when in all reality Torontonians could give two shits about the rest of Canada. I''m always amazed that the supposed New Jerusalem Montreal still has a chip on its shoulder and is still, underneath the surface, just as conservative and insecure as other Canadian cities
It''s delicious whenever Canadians fight about their cities. Please continue.
I''ve been here 25 years. Didn''t want to be here but work required it.%0D\
I don''t understand the transit hatred. I live on the Scarborough border and can be across the city in 45 minutes on the subway.%0D\
Everything I need or want can be found in my neighbourhood. It''s clean and safe even at night, although rent is expensive.%0D\
I LIVE in this neighbourhood rather than in the "city" but the city is there whenever I need or want to use it.%0D\
I go downtown for plays or theatre, sometimes to shop, and then come back home to my neighbourhood. I don''t use the city every day. I use it when I want to.%0D\
I love it here.
Jamaican Dance Hall music rules in the Jane & Finch community. \
(Boom Bye Bye in Da Batty Boy Head)
Was this the thread on which it was decided that Toronto sucks?
Toronto is lovely but Montreal is far better!
If you want to move to a big city I''d definitely try Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa or Halifax.\
Both Edmonton and Calgary are growing rapidly, and although conservative, they still have a big gay scene.
Toronto is a wanna be World Class city.
Only to its Mayor, City Council and media, R42. The people could care less about World Class.
Like New York, it suffers from having a large percentage of its population consist of transplants from other parts of the country who spend way too much time congratulating themselves on what sophisticated urbanites they are. That sort of attitude is ridiculous enough when it comes from people living in a legitimately globally important "first tier"city like New York, which Toronto isn''t.\
To my mind, Toronto reminds me of a cleaner, safer (if less architecturally distinguished) Chicago.
the new mayor just raised the subway & bus fare.
Toronto is not that clean and safe anymore R44. Things have CHANGED since the 1980s.
Toronto will be a world class city soon enough. Just wait. And the part about boring architecture? Well, they have many skyscrapers in the works, that will change the city''s skyline. It will be the "New York" of Canada.
R18, okay Halifax is nice but Ottawa!? Toronto, for all its flaws, is a better place to live.\
I live downtown and I walk to my work \
(a beautiful campus setting in the heart of the city) so I avoid the transit hell....but I agree the TTC is an issue.
Each day ends with a spray of glitter and the tickle of a feather boa.%0D
Living in Toronto is basically like living in a never-ending episode of DeGrassi.
Toronto is culturally diverse in a real way. Lots of energy, many different little areas of art galleries, restaurants and shops. Better to be lucky enough to live in the core west to Parkdale, east to maybe Main. Lots of condos and little house options as well as lovely old ''hoods. \
Ethnically diverse population means great food and music abound.\
It''s a wonderful city and a well-kept secret, so much going on, so much to do. I don''t know what most of you are talking about. Many lifelong Torontonians still live in neighbourhoods in the core of the city, Lots of walking in the ravines and parks, it''s all you could ask for. Universities, conservatories, good dance and opera companies tons of live theatre, good shopping. Good performer population as so much film and TV is shot here.\
Not naturally as geographically spectacular as Montreal or Vancouver but the diversity of the population makes it great IMO.
I''ve lived here for seven years and I love it. It''s not perfect by any means and a lot could improve. But for the most part it''s a lovely, diverse, liveable city that works. %0D\
We''re experiencing some growing pains at the moment, but there''s a palpable energy here. Things are changing and Toronto is getting ready to grow into itself. Everything is set to explode: business, finance, architecture, the arts, media, culture, etc. And when it does Toronto will be the second most important city in North America (NYC will always be #1)
Torontians never produced anything internationally significant. It is a city of people who leave to go somewhere else to make it. \
The Arts and Music, scene in Toronto, exists because of CanCon laws and government funding. So lame is it. If you want the real thing, go to NYC, LA, London, Berlin, Paris, Milan or Tokyo. \
If you currently live in Toronto and think you actually have real creative talent, leave and try to make it in the big leagues. Nobody will take you seriously in Toronto.
"The Arts and Music, scene in Toronto, exists because of CanCon laws and government funding. So lame is it. If you want the real thing, go to NYC, LA, London, Berlin, Paris, Milan or Tokyo. "\
Uh, most of those cities you mention (except maybe the American ones) have scenes that exist only because of heavy government funding (and in the U.S. the exception that funding is often done by wealthy patrons).\
The music scene is definitely not lame but you wouldn''t know that from sitting at home and watching HGTV all day and night.
Toronto''s current music scene sucks eggs. 20s years ago is only sucked 1 egg. It has always sucked.\
Canada''s biggest record sellers\
1. Celine Dion - Montreal\
2. Alannis Morrisette - Ottawa\
3. Avril Lavigne - Bellville\
4. Bryan Adams - Vancouver\
5. Shania Twain - Timmins\
6. Rush - Newmarket\
7. Joni Mitchell - Saskatoon\
8. Nickleback - Hana, Alberta\
9. K. d. Lang - Consort, Alberta\
10. Neil Young - Winnipeg\
11. Anne Murray - Nova Scotia\
12. Men Without Hats - Montreal\
13. Gordon Lightfoot - Orillia\
14. BTO - Winnipeg\
15. April Wine - Halifax\
The Toronto music scene sucks and always has sucked. Even the Barenaked Ladies refuse to associate themselves with Toronto and say they are a Scarborough band.
You suck, R55.
For those pooh-poohing T.O''s "boring" architecture.
Okay. now I understand r55. You have the most pedestrian tastes in the world judging by your list of "artists".\
I guess you''ve never heard of Crystal Castles, Deadmau5, Parallels, MSTRKRFT, Death from Above 1979 (now defunct), Feist, Broken Social Scene (not a fan but...), Gentleman Reg, Drake, Fucked Up and those are the current crop with a big etc. The muscial scewne has always been raging and pretty diverse (think: Glenn Gould, the Viletones, the Diodes, Platinum Blonde, the Spoons, Holly Cole, Images in Vogue, Blue Peter etc)\
But it''s understandable when someone cites such luminaries of the Canadian music scene like Nickleback and Shania Twain...
Don''t forget ME, bitches!
There''s a lot to criticize about Toronto but I don''t get the TTC bashing. Most North American cities would be lucky to have their transit system.
R58 those "artists" you picked, sold squat. \
The music business is the money business and if you don''t sell the big numbers you are a peon. Nobody cares how good you think you are, if you don''t sell a ton of records and fill the big stadiums, you are dog vomit, one of 10,000 piles of it. Nickleback and Shania Twain pull in the big numbers so they are the big stars.\
Welcome to the reality of the music business and show business. 99% of bands today don''t understand this, or rather, their egos won''t accept it.
R61 = Erika Ehm taking a break from her mommy blog.
The Toronto music scene will always be defined for me by "Barenaked Ladies": that is to say, a VERBAL scene rather than a MUSICAL one.%0D
Um, r24 - you can take the subway to Kennedy and then transfer for free to the Airport Rocket bus, which runs pretty frequently. It''s extremely easy to get to Pearson by transit and takes under an hour from downtown.%0D\
I absolutely don''t understand why Torontonians complain so much about the transit system. I fully agree that the subway should be extended (they need another east-west line, clearly). But other than that, unless you''re waiting for a Queen streetcar at 3am, you usually don''t have to wait too long.
I suspect your entire life is defined by the year 1992 and everything that happened in it.
Toronto has about 50 RAP acts nobody ever heard of too.
Drake not good enough for you?
I know it''s out of fashion, and a trifle uncool\
But I can''t help it. I''m a romantic fool
What about Winipeg! Come to Winipeg, it''s beautiful. Halifax is beautiful! Calgary is beautiful. You will find many rugged, tough men in these places. Men who are hungry for the man on man lovestyle. Please. Come. We are SO lonely. %0D\
I know. We hide it well.
I''ve travelled to TO probably hundreds of times over the past 35 years, ever since I was a freshman in college. I''ve found that in the past ten years, it''s gotten very seedy and while it''s always had a more Midwestern USA feel than a Canadian feel, it leans more towrads Detroit now than Chicago.%0D\
I prefer Montreal. I haven''t ever been to Vancouver, but I hope to get there in the next couple of years.
Vancouver''s sleepy and Montreal is fun and glam but ultimately too hedonistic. Toronto''s a great city....not perfect, but where is?
R71, that''s ridiculous. You cannot in any sense compare Toronto to Detroit. For one thing, Toronto doesn''t have any vacant buildings. For another, Detroit has no street life, not at any time of day or night any day of the week.%0D
Toronto is more like Columbus, Ohio, but with sky scrapers. You kinda wonder why it exists, why are there so many people living there.
The airport connection sucks, r64. It''s always way crowded with people and luggage. True, it''s great to have a subway and streetcars. But the system has suffered from political neglect. It hasn''t kept up with the growth of the city and is bursting at the seams at rush hours.\
On another note, what is with these people who must compare T.O. snidely to some US city? It''s nothing like Columbus or Detroit except perhaps climate-wise. There are no real ghettoes, the economy is quite robust and it is quite cosmopolitan. On the downside, people here tend to be too much about money and career and the smog can be bad in the summer.
R75, you wouldn''t consider, say, and and Finch a slum?
Toronto Elected Rush Limbaugh as Mayor. Time for the gays to leave now....quickly.
The rest of Canada regards Toronto as a dreadful bore. That city so painfully wants to be mentioned in the same breath as Chicago or New York, but it doesn''t have any of the history or cultural substance.%0D\
If you want to live in a really funky, artistic place you should check out Winnipeg (seriously!). It has the highest per capita population of artists in Canada, a fantastic arts scene, the greatest concentration of Chicago-style architecture outside of Chicago, and an affordable housing stock of beautiful, turn-of-the-century homes. Hundreds of lakes and several beautiful beaches are just minutes outside of town. The job market is solid, and my commute across the city takes less than 20 minutes. We have a reliable transit system (one of the highest per capita riderships in N. America), and it looks like the Winnipeg Jets are coming back to town.%0D\
Saskatoon is also a lovely river city with good job prospects and a vibrant arts community. %0D\
Do yourself a favour: Check out the West!
Oddly homophobic city. Not a lot of things to do that don''t feel very 1990s. Not very attractive either.\
Montreal and Vancouver are much better. And as someone else mentioned, Halifax and Ottawa are probably on their way up, while Toronto''s flat, growing only in terms of population. It''s kind of like Canada''s version of Charlotte, NC.
I'm always a little baffled when people try to make a case for some other Canadian city being the arts/cultural capital of Canada. For all Toronto's problems (and it's by no means a perfect city), I don't think it's a question that the great majority of internationally renowned arts figures are TO-based. Margaret Atwood, Michael Ondaatje, Rohinton Mistry, Michael Snow, David Cronenberg, Atom Egoyan, Deepa Mehta, Patricia Rozema, Sarah Polley, etc. The Toronto Film Festival is arguably the most important film festival in North America. It's most assuredly not New York, but it's not too shabby.
The closest city would be Montreal, which has a superior music scene (led by Arcade Fire) and has its own film industry, with award-winning directors like Denys Arcand, Denis Villeneuve and Xavier Dolan. And the guys are way hotter in Montreal. Food's better too.
Personally, those are the only two cities I could consider living in in Canada. Vancouver is beautiful and scenic, but way too slow paced and small for me.
Montreal is a has-been city with crumbling infrastructure and an increasingly hostile attitude towards English speakers. There is little to no economic opportunity in Quebec. The days of Expo ''67 and the 1976 Olympics are long, long gone. Frankly, it strikes me as a dying place. %0D\
Vancouver is rife with violence from the Asian drug trade. The cost of living is astronomical, and the large Asian presence is alienating. I can''t imagine raising a family there or setting down roots without major cash. The city is also built on a known earthquake fault. %0D\
People in Pittsburgh or Cleveland probably hear the same thing from the "bi-coastal crowd" who would only live in NYC, LA, or possibly San Francisco.%0D\
Vancouver always has been the center of Canada''s music industry. The Factory, has one of 3 Neve boards in the World (The legendary Beatles custom designed sound mixers from Abbey Roads studio - considered the best mixers ever made) courtesy of Bryan Adams.\
Toronto only has people and banks. Tons of people. No successful arts culture outside of CanCon subsidized crap - which doesn''t survive outside of Canada. Toronto is also a place to make cheap American productions, but nobody ever acknowledges the city. Sundance is the most prestigious film fest in North America, unless you count the Oscars, which is basically the worlds #1 film festival. Drake is an embarrassment, not internationally respected music. The Bare Naked Ladies, from Scarborough, is the closest thing Toronto has ever had to an internationally successful band, but that is it.
[quote]Drake is an embarrassment, not internationally respected music.\
Drake is the best thing Canada has offer right now. And that''s saying a lot.
R7, you say you''re over 40 but you write stuff like\
[quote] The arts are good, particularly the indie and urban music scenes.\
Does that shit really interest you or are you trying to sound young?
Who''s bumping all this old shit?
Torontonians who are trying to make their city happen.
I''ve lived in Toronto for more than 10 years and have to agree what some posters upthread said. Don''t get me wrong, I don''t mind living here and it''s unlikely that my partner and I will move in any foreseeable future since I have a tenured position at a university here, but it''s not an amazing place. Nice if you have a good job which generates a lot of disposable income but, otherwise, it''s kind of bland. It''s multicultural to the extent that there are people from any country imaginable and that has its good sides but all these communities live side by side instead of together. There''s no cross-pollination in that regard and no sense that it''s somehow enriching the cultural fabric of the city other than, say, being able to eat good ethnic food. Most of the art "scene" are Rosedale trust fund babies which makes it sort of mundane. It always amuses me how defensive a lot of us Torontonians get when it comes to any sort of criticism.
really R87 ????\
kensington market is the very definition of cross-pollination to me. As is Parkdale.\
Who are these art-scene Rosedale trust fund babies you are referring to? Certainly not the late Will Munro? or Luis Jacob? or Peter Kingstone? D.bi Young? Diamond Rings? Ill Na Na? Ryan G. Hinds? Tanja Tiziana? Waawaate Fobister?\
Toronto can be bland and one of the main reasons is the belief that nothing here is worth celebrating. Instead of offering the world Drake, why not Jully Black?
I heard you have to orally service Rob Ford before moving to Toronto now. He can no longer see his dick so he likes to have someone else do the dirty work.
[quote]Vancouver is rife with violence from the Asian drug trade. The cost of living is astronomical, and the large Asian presence is alienating.\
You poor, persecuted white male. Sucks to be you.
[quote]kensington market is the very definition of cross-pollination to me. As is Parkdale.
Parkdale represent! I love living in this part of town. It is a really diverse neighbourhood.
[quote]There's no cross-pollination in that regard and no sense that it's somehow enriching the cultural fabric of the city other than, say, being able to eat good ethnic food.
You don't get out much, do you? Are you a WASP?
There's plenty of "cross-pollination" in Toronto.
Every week I'm doing something different culturally and having a lot of fun. Purim, Divali, Caribana, Chinese New Year, First Nations gatherings. Lots of parks and recreation. Lake Ontario and Centre Island. Decent night club scene. Trade expos and shows. Good shopping. All the museums and theatres and concert venues. The vibrant art scene (which is so NOT Rosedale or Bridle Path trust fund babies). And if you want to get out of the city, there's Niagara Falls, cottage country, Algonquin Park, Ottawa and Montreal.
There's a LOT of stuff going on in this city. Toronto has its negative side (shitty public transit and traffic, expensive, kinda dirty, etc.), but overall, it's a pretty good place to live.
[quote]Sundance is the most prestigious film fest in North America, unless you count the Oscars, which is basically the worlds #1 film festival.
Obviously you are not in the industry. Toronto is much more highly regarded. Sundance is the artsy fartsy fest. Toronto is for hardcore film people.
[quote]The Bare Naked Ladies, from Scarborough, is the closest thing Toronto has ever had to an internationally successful band, but that is it.
You must be quite young. Go learn about Canadian music history and then you'll know that what you wrote just isn't true.
[quote]No successful arts culture outside of CanCon subsidized crap - which doesn't survive outside of Canada.
Hilarious. Another one who is obviously not even remotely involved in the arts.
[quote]You poor, persecuted white male. Sucks to be you.\
Bitter asian queen, typing furiously.
I''m from San Francisco and found Toronto and Montreal to be delightful but have never been there in Winter. If I had to, I''d prefer living in either over New York or Boston.
Toronto has imported the cultures of many other nation en mass, but has no culture to call it''s own. So if you want international cuisine, go to Toronto - sure, but that is not a substitute for a globally successfully arts culture. \
Toronto has a void, outside of lame, government sponsored scene, which every major city in the world has. Every major city has an art gallery with some famous international artists, every city has a club band scene, every city has a TV news station, every city has a trendy strip full of franchise coffee and designer shops etc. Toronto is nothing special in this respect.
Whoa, who ever mentioned anything about "persecution"? All I said is that it''s alienating when 9 out of 10 people around you are speaking in Cantonese. But thanks for the knee-jerk, racist reaction.
I love Vancouver.
R94 is 100% correct%0D\
Vancouver does not have culture either, and it rains.
I would like to visit Calgary.
qwest in the house. haters gonna hate. big ups r80\
living in toronto now is a bit tight with the bike-hating, graffitti-hating, hockey-loving boor of a mayor but the city is fresh with talent and opportunity. busting from every pocket of charm a revolution is waiting to happening.
Today, Toronto is Walmart run by the Swiss franchise that outsourced it''s jobs to India.
Sorry Mr Ustinov, the glory days of the 80s are no longer.
^^^ Huh get gramps of the net
only 3 more years of our mayor to go! then you can all come back and visit
Toronto has no culture of its own. It is a collection of non-Canadian communities living in a sectioned city.
Dollar Store quality local arts and music scene. If you want to make it in the arts, you have to leave Toronto, only the rejects and CanCon charity cases stay.
Waiting for some actor to claim they are working in Toronto for a another Canadian rip off of an American TV show, watched weekly by hundreds of people, funded with tax payer dollars, that will be cancelled in a year. Or how great the Queen St West music scene is, yet nobody outside of Toronto knows about it. Or how the Tourist flock to the Theater district to see B grade versions of Broadway and London plays - currently also being regurgitated in Bratislava and Albany, NY.
Does it snow as much in Toronto as it does in Buffalo, or does lake effect snow travel on winds from west to east?
Nobody "lives" in Toronto.
Toronto is on the north side of the lake so it gets less snow than Buffalo or Syracuse which are east and south of the major lakes.
It's horrible. Don't come here.
r103 sounds like a delight.
I second the "don't come here" advice.
It's overcrowded, expensive, overrated, and the traffic is worse than it is in Los Angeles. Worse. And the public transit gets worse and worse with each passing day. You'd think a city this large would have excellent and affordable public transit, but no. It fucking sucks if you don't have a car. Fuck, it fucking sucks if you DO have a car.
Sure, Toronto's got some good things going for it, I guess. But those things don't make up for all the shit you have to deal with just to get through the day here.
And don't get me started on the fuckwit rightwing asshole who is currently mayor.
A lot of those billion people born in the last twelve years ended up in Toronto...
Toronto has more hot muscled gay guy exhibitionists and naturists than any other city in North America, and that should be more than enough for all of you.
What Toronto are you talking about R111?
Most of Toronto is Bears (read fat) or Sissies (read flaming).
Toronto also has a personality, a pungent, slightly dour, rather self-righteous personality that says "dark red bricks and eccentricity confined within appropriate limits."
But at least it's not anti-intellectual as virtually all of the rest of North America (including Mexico City) is.
[quote]But at least it's not anti-intellectual as virtually all of the rest of North America (including Mexico City) is.
This I have to agree with; it's one of Toronto's good points.
You not wrong, r109. But where would you move to, honestly? Some bigger, more cosmopolitan city where the rents are double what they are here, i.e. New York or London?
Toronto takes some getting used to. It's not a physically alluring city like San Francisco; it doesn't have the immediate, intense energy of New York or the quaint, historic appeal of Quebec City, or even Montreal, let alone a European capital. At its worst, it can feel reminiscent of an endless Albany, NY.
That said, I think the city has a way of growing on you if you live there for a while. In the first place, the intangible quality of life is really quite good. There's an amazing array of ethnic restaurants. Shopping is excellent. There are wonderful neighborhood cafes all over the city. It truly is a diverse city in which different groups of people do mix together and cross-pollinate, although there are certain problem groups (the Jamaicans and some of the Muslims, in particular.) The vast, vast majority of the city is totally gay friendly, and there's far more mixing of gay and straight in social circles than you find in most US cities. People are generally educated to a minimal standard, unlike in the US. I'd also say that people tend to be relatively attractive and healthy in Toronto - certainly compared to NYC, where I live now. Here you have lots of fat people (often the poor underclass, but even the middle class porked up noticeably in the past decade or so), but in Toronto I just find people to be much thinner and more physically active.
There's also a very vibrant bar, music, and club scene, if that's your thing. I really don't understand the hatred for Toronto music and nightlife that some people seem to feel - sure, there are some lame places, but good god, have you been to NYC lately? I find that there are a huge number of artistically inclined people roaming around Toronto doing their thing - and unlike in NYC you can actually finance a semi-decent lifestyle from that because you're not competing with Wall Street money for basic necessities. If you're looking for internationally famous nightclubs where you might bump into Rihanna drinking champagne at a table, well, then maybe Toronto isn't your place. But for normal people, it's got lots of good options.
One negative - and a purely aesthetic one at that - is that Toronto started its most recent major growth spurt in the 60s & 70s, just in time to coincide with the heyday of brutalist architecture. That turned much of the downtown core into a bleak landscape of gray concrete boxes, particularly on and near Yonge St and into the Village. However, a lot of that is changing, as they tear down the ugly boxes and build new high-rise condos, etc. It's still not an architectural wonderland, but it looks much better.
The thing I particularly value about Toronto is it's livable for middle-class people. You don't have to be earning $100K+/year in order to afford a decent apartment in a nice neighborhood. It's not a utopia, but you can have a great quality of life in Toronto, and it's one of the most gay-friendly cities on the planet.
Toronto is so awful that its population is growing by just 100,000 a year, and only leads the *western* hemisphere in new highrise construction!
What about Moncton?
If you want to rent a run down old apartment for the same monthly payment you can buy a Condo in Montreal, then move to Toronto. The jobs are mostly minimum wage jobs today, so here is hoping you have family money. A least when people move to NYC and have to split an apartment, they have an exciting culture and serious arts community as a reward. Not in Toronto. Very much a 3rd rate arts community.