Mariah Carey

Never really paid attention to her before. Watching the Christmas special. Is she the most affected singer ever? I knew Christina Aguilera bothered the piss out of me with her constant microphone tapping with her fingers, but Mariah is constantly putting her finger in her ear to adjust her earpiece and then her hands are constantly fluttering up and down. If this broad was in an industrial accident and had both hands cut off, she wouldn''t be able to sing.

• She''s very affected, and she has been for most of her career, but to varying degrees.\ \ She was MUCH better when she first came out, especially the first three albums.

• She has NEVER topped "Vision of Love." That was a perfect pop single and a stunning start to what has turned out to be a commercially successful but ultimately artistically disappointing career.\ \ The hand gestures and the reaching for her ears on high notes are distracting to the extreme, agreed wholeheartedly.

• I always thought the song Emotions was one of her better efforts.\ \ Even the singing in super-poppy songs like Someday is infinitely better than the breathy, affected singing she developed.

• I liked her first couple of albums. At some point she decided that wailing interjected with high-pitched dolphin shrieks over generic R''n''B with some disposable rapper making a guest appearance was her "thing" and she lost me with that. I will, however, say that her Christmas album is a campy piece of fun.

• The first Christmas album, or the one just released?

• Yes she is, just like 90% of all singers born after 1960.

• The first one that came in the 90''s.

  R4

• She still has the pipes (too bad Whitney lost hers), but the hand in the earpiece was annoying...she needs to stop that habit, because it is distracting.

• So her last two studio albums and her new Xmas album all flopped. What''s next for Mimi besides motherhood? Her career needs major overhauling.

• They always made fun of Mariah''s hand gestures, and she herself made fun of it when SNL called her ass on it.\ \ Once she left Tommy Matola, she decided that she was a 100% black woman, and went on and on about it. Howard Stern made fun of this for years. Even Kathy Griffin said that when she left Matola, she couldn''t get enough black rapper dick inside her.\ \ I still believe that she was having an affair with Missy Elliot, and Da Brat.\ \ Her album titles have always been laughable. The woman still thinks she''s 14 years old.

• She''s obese and likes to take dumps on the beach.

  http://static.poponthepop.com/images/gallery/mariah-carey-fat-picture.jpg

• How much longer does she want to do this? Basically she can coast forever. From everything I''ve heard, she''s managed her money well, and she has LOT of money. Smart to get her name on a lot of those songs so she could get writing credits and the money associated with it. \ \ I still think she could make an easy and successful transition to adult contemporary R&B, be more of a serious singer again, get rid of the hip hop beats and guest rappers and just sing adult music.

• I don''t really like Mariah, but I love her version of "All I Want For Christmas Is You".%0D\ %0D\ I also love her visits to DL.

• She technically has range and power but I don''t like any of her material and she fails to move me on an emotional level.

• R10 who cares how she wants to identify or who she fucks?\ \ *You* certainly shouldn''t.

• Mariah has been oscillating her hands and arms whenever she sings for 20 years now. It definitely has gotten worse over the years when her voice declined. Now she does it and it's beyond annoying. You can't even focus on anything else when she performers -- well, that and her awful attire that she manages to squeeze herself into that's too tight. No, she hasn't been able to top Vision of Love. Had she continued with that type of work which was soulful, she would have been taken seriously as an artist a long time ago. But Mariah doesn't care about respectability as an artist, she cares about gaining her next number one single by any means necessary. Mariah is all about stats. And because of that she'll never be revered as an important figure in music because she doesn't take herself that seriously (which I guess is a good thing because she does have a sense of humor about herself). Sure, she set the blueprint down for the likes of Beyonce, Christina Aguilera, Kelly Clarkson, Leona Lewis, .etc., and her talent as a singer cannot be denied (even though she sings shitty, forgettable material), but she hasn't made a decent album since her last Columbia release. I will say that she's a decent actress. She was quite good in Precious. Maybe she'll focus more on her music since her latest albums have been flopping.

• Trivia point for R13 -- Carey wrote the song. It just sounds kind of retro. \ \ I agree with R2. Her voice was remarkable on the first few albums, but over time it wore out. Or, more exactly, the strength and precision/control of her middle range wore out. She can no longer perform the old stuff as well as she did back then.\ \ This has left her with only three vocal techniques: soft and whispery, loud and strident, and lyrics spoken-sung really really fast, hip hop style.

• Dissenting lamb here. Compare this 1991 version of thin Mariah with chunky 2005 Mariah. I think her voice sounds better now. She has lost some of the range, but her voice is fuller and more soulful now.\ \ \ Exhibit 1:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCf0v3nsT2k

• Exhibit 2:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MaezTxO1yw

• She does sound great on the second video, but hate the blonde hair on her.

• [quote]Trivia point for [R13] -- Carey wrote the song. It just sounds kind of retro. %0D\ %0D\ Thanks, R17. I should''ve been more specific about "All I Want For Christmas": I''ve heard other singers'' versions of this song, I prefer hers.

  R13

• Mariah''s hand gestures are her own natural habit.%0D\ %0D\ Didn''t Garland and Streisand have hand gestures that all the impersonators copied?%0D\ %0D\ It just means that Mariah is an original who''s been around for a LONG time and we must cut her some slack.%0D\ %0D\ Her voice is still good and she is fun. I like her.

  Nancy Snodgrass

• I like Mariah, too, and I personally like the hand movements.%0D\ %0D\ Those hand movements are a specific Mariah thing, and I love it when she does it.

  Anonymous

• I like her because she seems to be in on her own joke. %0D\ %0D

• Man, I had forgotten how rail thin she was. Not pretty, but very striking looking.\ \ In the second video, she looks like a fat Kelly Ripa.

• I''m another one who loved her early stuff, but then she lost me when she got all breathy in her delivery.\ \ But I do love one of her more relatively recent songs, "We Belong Together." And I also thought she was terrific in "Precious." I hope she does another quality acting gig like that soon.

• Mariah would not be Mariah without the finger vogue-ing! \ \ r17 that is spot on. I wonder why her voice fell off though. Chaka Khan is still belting like she did 1974. Mariah must have really damaged her pipes through smoking or working too much. \ \ My favorite Mariah music is the from mid 90s when she just started toying with hip-hop. After that she became a caricature, but I still love her.

• Agree, she was good in Precious.%0D\ %0D\ A friend of mine was in the Green Room last night at the White House Xmas performance. Friend of the musical director of the show.%0D\ %0D\ He said that Annie Lenox was wonderful- nice chatty, spoke to anyone and everyone and appeared to be enjoying herself (contrary to recent post on her.)%0D\ %0D\ He said no one went within 20 feet of MC. She did not talk to anyone and he thought she looked and behaved like an unstable nut- more concerned with a hair out of place than anything or anyone else. Funny.

  charlie

• She didn''t write that ripoff Phil Spector tune "All I Want For Xmas" - it was co-written.

• Is she really a smoker? That''s surprising considering that she mentioned in an interview in the 90''s that she didn''t know how her songs sounded in clubs since she would never go to them in fear that smoke would damage her vocal cords.

• No, she has never been a smoker since high school. I just googled it to check.

• R29, you''re splitting hairs. And when that much time has passed, it''s an homage, not a ripoff. She basically took the sound of Merry Christmas (Please Come Home) and gave it happy-pills.

• Vision of Love%0D\ %0D\ Emotions%0D\ %0D\ Make It Happen%0D\ %0D\ I''ll Be There%0D\ %0D\ the song with Boys II Men%0D\ %0D\ Dream Lover%0D\ %0D\ The rest suck.

• If she takes such good care of her voice, why does it sound like shit now?

• This is my favorite. Dreamlover is my second. I never really cared for Vision of Love.

  http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=always+be+my+baby+mariah+carey&aq=1

• "She basically took the sound of Merry Christmas (Please Come Home) and gave it happy-pills."%0D\ %0D\ She didn''t write the music, her longtime producer Walter Asaineff did, she''s credited with the lyrics, which are really corny, as is most of her material.

• R36 -\ \ "Carey wrote the song''s lyrics, and produced the melody and chorus. Walter Afanasieff co-arranged and produced the track, creating many of its instrumentals in the studio."

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_I_Want_for_Christmas_Is_You

• It says she produced the chorus, didn''t write it, in fact, Walter wrote practically the whole song. Same as Madonna, got writing credit on all her early stuff, but actually had very little to do with writing it.

• She has really terrible taste.

• Not to mention that Walter Afanasieff has gone on record (after the split) and stated that she not only writes the lyrics but helps create the melody and chorus of the majority of the songs they wrote and produced together. He stated that on some E! special about Mariah a few years back. The bitch maybe crazy and have a bad fashion sense (surely she has some sissies in her posse who can suggest a better wardrobe), but when she's focused, she can craft a great pop tune. I think her best work is in the 90s as well. A lot of that has to do with the fact that she created most of her dance material with C & C Music Factor's Robert Clivill%C3%A9s and David Cole, and her ballads with Walter Afanasieff. Too bad she didn't stick to crafting great music instead of attempting to become some pinup. The problem I have with her is that she's so insecure she refuses to see why the public ate her music up in the first place. And you can tell that she's afraid of aging, thus, she marries a guy that's old enough to be her little brother and her shameless pandering to kindergarteners and teens with her music. In many ways she's like Jacko: she refuses to grow up.

• R15: yes, because this is, after all, a gossip site.

• I don''t think she''s a songwriter, in the sense of Carole King or Joni Mitchell or Laura Nyro. She''s not even near their league in terms of musical ability. She''s an okay singer, but not a songwriter. Her producers wrote all of her hits, not her.

• Mariah wrote a few lines, at most, in most of her hits. She has written quite a few of her songs that showed up as album cuts. Either way, she is worth close to $250 million.%0D\ %0D\ She has admitted wholeheartedly there is only way to make big money in the music business and that is to make sure you get a cut of the publishing. That''s why she never toured much and has managed to keep her voice in decent shape....she didn''t need the money.

• It makes me laugh how some point out her behavior and call it unstable, but will defend Streisand for pulling the same shit. Give me a break.%0D\ %0D\ Anyway, I''m sure she has a few issues, but she''s always been very grateful and appreciative towards her fans. %0D\ %0D\ As for her writing, her lyric style hasn''t changed much. Simplistic love songs with a few "challenging" words thrown in. %0D\ %0D\ %0D\ %0D\ %0D\ %0D

• r19, thanks for the link. I love that performance and you can see she is really enjoying herself. There''s another video from that session where she does ''We Belong Together'' - it is fantastic.\ \ From day one (even when she was a nobody) Mariah has always written the lyrics and arranged the vocals on her songs. She didn''t suddenly become a songwriter after she became a success.

• Is she an alcoholic? \ \ I wish she didn''t go the bimbo image route. Regardless, I still love her.

• Agree with R45. The majority of her songs that ended up on her debut album were songs she created with Ben Margulies. The majority of those songs were songs on her demo that Tommy Mottola discovered. So no, she''s not someone who writes a few words to a song and attach her name to it. She''s very involved in the songwriting process in terms of the melody, lyrics, vocal arrangements, etc., and this has been the case since day one. \ \ R44, you''re right, Charlie often has double-standards when it comes to Dame Streisand. That is his trademark here at DL.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA8OuMoiEaE

• [quote]He said that Annie Lenox was wonderful- nice chatty, spoke to anyone and everyone and appeared to be enjoying herself (contrary to recent post on her.)\ \ The impression I get from her recent interviews is that she is quite content these days, so that doesn''t surprise me. Though, she may be one of those musicians who need some misery in life to create good music.

• I always got the impression that she was pretty involved in writing the lyrics and melodies for her songs, much more than adding a few words and taking a credit. When "Heartbreaker" came out and people pointed out it basically had the same melody and chords as "Dreamlover", she was pretty open about the fact that since she writes a good deal of her material, some of it sounds the same.%0D %0D No, her songs aren't high art, but she definitely has a good ear for a catchy hook, lyrics that are broad enough to be relatable, and she generally knows what works and doesn't work with her voice. Heck, there are plenty of far more talented songwriters and producers out there who've been trying their whole careers to sell out with a catchy pop hit but never gotten anywhere near her constant string of successes. Having a good sense of what people will like and put on the radio takes a certain talent and sophistication all in its own.%0D %0D As for her voice, she doesn't have the smoothness, control and power that she once did (she's retained much more of it than Whitney, though), but I always associate that with her various weight fluctuations, health and mental issues than with her smoking or anything like that.

• I agree r49, she knows what works for her. Look at Christina. She is a powerhouse but has struggled to find the right formula.%0D\ %0D\ This still tugs on my heart everytime I hear it!

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stcdNj0SANw

  Maria!

• I work for a HBCU, and I had to go to a staff appreciation/holiday party last week. First, we were handed lyric sheets for "Silent Night." Then we were told that because Jesus''s name appeared in the song we would have to stand while we sang. Then, and here''s the best part, they called for volunteers to lead the singing. Some guy volunteered and went down front. Then he proceeded to sing the Mariah Carey version of Silent Night with all the trills and runs and bullshit. I could hardly keep a straight face, but apparently no one else thought anything was out of place.

  Volunteer was a MARY

• r43, you have no clue what you're talking about. Mariah has been writing songs since she was a kid/teenager. She copyrighted 26 of them before she got her record deal. She writes all of the lyrics, and with songs like Vision of Love and All I Want For Christmas Is You she wrote the basic chord progressions with lyrics on her own at a piano/keyboard and then works with a producer/piano player to craft them into the final product. She is VERY involved in writing her songs whether you think they're great or shit. Hate her as much as you want and talk about discounted singles, but she has had incredible success (more weeks at #1 than the Beatles, Elvis, and everyone else). All I Want For Christmas Is You is the only modern Christmas classic. Bitch wrote it. What did Judy write? What did Babs write? You don't know what she went through as a child and even as an adult dealing with Mottola and other men in the industry telling her she had to be a certain way. She has a lot of issues, but she's a really nice person and has incredible personal strength, not many people could handle having millions of people criticize their looks, outfits, ethnicity, singing, songwriting, acting, etc.

  Yes, I''m a huge lamb so eat me

• I agree with the OP - that is much too annoying and aggravating to watch sing.

• Breakdown is her best song ever!

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-iUZNs-Jm8

• Not an ounce of authenticity or conviction in any of her songs. Every single one has been a construction of complete wobbly ego and shrill pyrotechnics combined with overreaching attempts to convey placement in a cultural group likely to buy music.\ \ Purr, purr Mimi.

• OP, you slay me!!!

• No other singer can touch her. Babs? Please. Madonna? That comparison is a joke.

• r19 - you like the 2nd version better because it''s autotuned to DEATH and she''s not singing live. She IS singing live in the first link. Same for you r20 - AUTOTUNED & not singing LIVE.

• I have to admit I like early Mariah Carey, or I did when I was in high school/college.\ \ All my friends were listening to Nirvana and Pearl Jam, etc. One of them found a Mariah Carey tape (yes, cassette!) and was like, what the hell? I lied and said it was a present. Then he found two more.

  Yes, I was a pathetic poser

• She''s very sweet in real life. \ \ Here she is looking and sounding her best. \ \ Her hair and the dress are beautiful, but her shoes are truly... WTF?\ \ Caution!!! Hand gestures and circus of riffs are present!

• Mooriah is more like it.

  get it? MOO-riah?

• She is MASSIVE now. Approaching Aretha levels of obesity.

• R62 = liar

• Oh fine I guess that settles it R63

  http://roflrazzi.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/celebrity-pictures-mariah-carey-find-bukkit.jpg

• People always assume a female pop star doesn''t have any songwriting talent. Why is that?

• r65 - well what I learned here at DL from the Max Martin thread is that Max Martin & Dr Luke write almost every hit out there on the charts. They''re making a mint. Look ''em up and check out the Max Martin thread.

• [quote]But I do love one of her more relatively recent songs, "We Belong Together."\ \ I love this one too. There are only a few songs I really like by her, most of them are non-singles on her albums.

• Watch Mariah Carey Upstage Her Own Mother on National TV

  http://tv.gawker.com/5713214/watch-mariah-carey-upstage-her-own-mother-on-national-tv

• I love her new video (released today). It is understated and modest.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aop6YF1Xqqg

• R69''s video reminds me of another quirk of hers that annoys me sometimes - the constant fluttering of (fake) eyelashes. In every video there''s almost always a moment where she has to turn her head to the side and bat them coyly for the camera.%0D\ %0D\ That being said, again the video at R69 isn''t high art, but you just know that stuff is going to be pumped in the clubs the closer we get to New Year''s.

• [italic]Her producers wrote all of her hits, not her.[/italic]\ \ The majority of Mariah''s songs were self-written. That''s a fact. Do your research. I don''t even like her, but I''m not going to push a falsehood to make her look bad.

• [quote]She is MASSIVE now. Approaching Aretha levels of obesity.\ \ She''s having twins, Dear.

• Wait a minute, just how is MC like Streisand?%0D\ %0D\ Streisand sold herself a bit as sexy woman in in her 20s and 30s but not much after that and never inappropriate for her age. %0D\ %0D\ The only star who comes close to MC in poor taste (other than Elizabeth Taylor who made vulgarity an art) is Aretha. However Aretha has more talent and creativity in her (fat) pinking than MC has in her entire overflowing self. %0D\ %0D\ MC is bizarre in my opinion. She cannot be as dumb as she appears, and the way she has developed as a singer is very strange. It''s as if she gets less mature and of course her style more affected- she does sound like she smokes and is losing her voice.

  charlie

• Oh, and I am a barely literate shit eater.

  Medical Academic

• Fuck you OP. Mariah is the business! Love this bitch so much. I always loved her voice and singing style, most of her songs, her personality and her look. She's a real diva. She's hard to work with but is SUPER sweet to her fans.

• Does she have herpes too? She dated Derek Jeter who is rumored to have herpes.

• Mariah is back, y'all! This is one of her best songs in years. The main song for the new Oz movie. Love it.

  http://perezhilton.com/2013-02-18-mariah-carey-almost-home-oz-the-great-and-powerful-new-single-full%23.USKNI6WTgsc

• She's probably one of the few female singers who could sit in a studio and write a good song from start to finish without outside assistance.

• Do you think she loathes Beyonce?

• [quote]She's probably one of the few female singers who could sit in a studio and write a good song from start to finish without outside assistance. Are you fucking kidding me? All of her songs are co-written, which means we don't know how much she actually writes herself. Plus, her lyrics are stupid as hell - "See right through you like you're bathing in Windex"...really? [quote]Do you think she loathes Beyonce? I'm sure it drives her crazy all the attention she's getting. They're both self-obsessed media whores who don't like sharing the spotlight.

• Her career in the 90s was huge, in the 2000s it was up and down. But then her last 3 albums, including the second Christmas one flop. One of the things that has always struck me as odd is how her career started to go downhill after she divorced Mottolla. Also for selling so many albums she's been a flop as a touring artist. After her big comeback in 05-06 she decided to do a full scale arena world tour it only grossd something like $36 million and this was at one of her peaks! My friend bought 2 tickets for $10 bucks a few hours before showtime at Madison Square Garden in her hometown. The same time Mariah embarked on her tour Madonna did with her Confessions Tour. Madonna's tour grossed $200 million with only 60 shows and set the record for the highest grossing tour by a solo artist ever, a record Madonna herself would beat with her next tour!

  anonymous%20

• R81 = Vadgebot Anyways, yes Mariah's tours flop and that's because she's not a performer. She can't dance and she just stands in one place waving her hands in the air. She's got no energy. She had her most success in the 90's because she did good pop music back then and now all she does is this generic sounding R&B shit that all sounds the same. She should really consider working with her earlier producers again.

• She's the biggest selling female artist of the soundscan era. She also has the most Billboard number one hits of any female artist. And the biggest selling song of the 2000's with We Belong Together. In short, I don't think she cares about tour grosses.

• Bieber is way more affected. Trying to sing like a brother.

• The Emancipation of Mimi was one of her highest selling albums and it was released in 2005/2006. The album earned something like 10 Grammy nods and she won Best Contemporary R&B, Female R&B, and I think one other. So she's had major success post 90s. If her career has waned it's because music has changed a great deal since the 90s.

• I think she worked again with the guy she did Dreamlover and Fantasy with, so hopefully that'll be as good as those two. I want her to work with Walter Afanasieff again and there was talk it might happen, but I think it didn't work out, partly because his daughter blabbed about it on Twitter as they were in negotiations.

• From what I've read it does seem like she's not the self-contained writer some want to make her out to be. Her early songs were co-written and then rewritten and rearranged again by top writers and producers. So while I don't want to take away whatever percentage of credit she deserves, R80 is probably closer to the mark than R71 is. She seems to be credited on quite a few songs that have 6 or more listed writers. I can't imagine needing 8 people to write one pop song, that's ridiculous. So far I've not been able to find one song where she is confirmed the sole songwriter. Given how many years she's been in the business it shouldn't be so tough to find just one for a real songwriter.

• R83 the Soundscan era dates back to 1991, she's the biggest selling female in the US in the last 22 years, but certainly not worldwide. Mariah has 18 #1 singles on the U S BILLBOARD charts but on the United World Charts she only has a paltry 4. Madonna is the artist with the most with 22 Worldwide #1 singles and Madonna has the most #1's on all Billboard charts combined with 156! We Belong Together was the #1 Billboard Hot 100 song of the decade, but it wasn't the biggest selling, the Hot 100 is a combination of sales and AIRPLAY, the airplay for that song was huge and kept it on the charts for months. The sales were decent almost 2 milliin in the US and 4 million worldwide . But Hung Up by Madonna sold 9 million worldwide that same year.

  anonymous%20

• Mariah is very involved in writing her songs. She doesn't play piano or guitar and she needs a skilled musician to keep up with the pace that melodic and chord ideas come to her. Trust me, she ain't fakin it and taking credit like Beyonce where it isn't due. Most of her songs actually only have 1-2 other writers. The ones with more than that are usually songs that included a sample of a previous work that had 3-5 writers.

• R83 and of course she cares about tour grosses, TOURING IS WHERE ALL THE MONEY IS AT Hell an average artist makes more money on tour MERCHANDISE (shirts, tour books, posters etc.) than they do an album sales because album sales are in the shitter. If Mariah was a more popular touring artist she wouldn't be doing diet ads and American Idol to pay the bills, she'd be touring all the time.

  anonymous%20

• R88 Fuck off! Why do you Madonna stans have to bring that old bitch up in EVERY thread about another female singer? Are you that threatened by other female singers? Lord knows I don't like Mariah, but you Vadge stans are so so tiresome.

• "TOURING IS WHERE ALL THE MONEY IS AT ." No. The AI gig that she just got paid twenty million for is where the money is at. Ditto the royalties for all the songs that are still getting played on the radio. Why does Madonna get dragged into every single one of these threads anyway? Are her fans that insecure that they can't let another entertainer shine without having to desperately try to prove how "relevant" she is? My point is that Mariah's place in pop music is secure, like Madonna's. Mariah has the statistic to prove it. I'm not turning this into a pissing contest over who is more "Relevant" (WHATEVER that means).

• R91 just presenting FACTS and you call Madonna old when Mariah ain't no spring chicken either. Mariah tried to compete with Madonna in 2006 as a touring act and it back fired in her obese face! One of the NY papers said that Madonna had her people send her Mariah's tour grosses and Madonna would have a good laugh at what a flop she was.

  u%20call%20Madonna%20old%20when%20Mariah%20ain%27t%20no%20spring%20c

• That was the same year that Madonna demanded she be the opening act at the Grammys or she wouldn't do it. Who was leading with the nominations that year? Of course, that was following the summer that Madonna high tailed it out of Live 8 after Mariah arrived, because she didn't want to be around her. Mariah was basking in the glow of her worldwide number one hit, while Madonna was doing a set of her older hits.

• Mariah got paid 17 million for her AI gig that'll last for a year. Madonna's MDNA Tour grossed $305 million last year, the tour cost about $100 million to mount ans produce, Madonna's Live Nation contract stipulates that she gets 90% of the tour profit, that 90% of $205 million plus it stipulates that she gets 75% of alk merchandise sales(not just merchandise profits) So basically for 7 months work, Madonna will have earned over $200 million dollars, wait till the Forbes list comes out this year, while Carey will earn $17 million for one years work as a B list reality show judge. Is that all clear now?

  anonymous%20

• R94 Madonna performed at Live 8 in the middle of recordimg her upcoming huge selling Confessions on a Dancedloor album, she di dn't sing any new songs because the album was months away from release. And We Belong Together only went to number 1 in 4 countries, Hung Up went to #1 in 41 countries and the album Confessions on a Dancefloor debuted at #1 in 43 countries, both song and album entered the 2007 Guinness Book of Records as the single and album that went to #1 in the most countries of all time. And for the recod the Grammy awards don't mean shit but Madonna has 7, while Mariah has 5.

  Google%20it%21

• Mariah and Madonna, when she's not changing a word to get a writing credit, both write their lyrics and melodies to a an existing track. They're the same in that regard. Beyonce is another story.

• The fourth highest grossing tour of last year was nothing more than old filmclips of Michael Jackson being paraded on a screen for two hours. So I don't tend to take "tour statistics" all that seriously. And when you look at the statistics, Springsteen (who came in at number two) played the same amount of shows and had a higher amount of total attendance. Ditto Roger Waters, who came in at number three. Madonna simply charged higher prices.

  Google it!

• This is true and usually their co-producers write the music, so although they share a writing credit, they write the lyrics

  Madonna%20stan

• Madonna and Springsteen both played to 2.2 milliin fans. Roger Waters did double the shows Madonna did And touring means everything in music these days, an artiat isn't really popular until they can get people the worrld over to spend good money on tickets to see them live that's power and popularity and Mariah has no idea what that is. In a few years physical Cd's will be extinct and major artists might even GIVE AWAY their music for free online. Beyonce knows this why do you think immediately after her Superbowl performance she put tickets on sale for her tour. She's really trying to establish herself as a major touring artist and she's succeeding her last tour made over $100 million her new tour could top it. Touring is so important today in the industry that to calculate the top artists of each year Billboard has added touring grosses along with album and single sales.

  anonymous%20

• Does anyone know if Mariah is going to jump on the EDM craze after the flop of triumphant? I think she still has some hits left in her.

• "Madonna and Springsteen both played to 2.2 milliin fans" Madonna played to 1.6 million. Springsteen played to 2.1. And Springsteen only sold out fifty four of the seventy two shows. Again, Google it.

• R93 you obviously have a psychological disorder that won't be cured by posting FACTS here. Nor will it be cured by your standing on street corners hollering FACTS to passersby as you do when your carpel tunnel temporarily impedes you from obsessively pasting them online. I know you feel closer to her every time you paste her name, but that's not a friendship. It's not going to happen. Seek help. Just because a thread title has an "M" in it doesn't automatically make it about Madonna. A literacy class should also be in your future plans.

• R102 WRONG that was before Madonna's last run of dates including her phenomenal South American concrrs were added the final gross was MDNA TOUR $305 MILION BOX OFFICE, 2.2 MILLION TICKETS SOLD. Google MDNA 2.2 million tickets and see what you get.

  Why%20do%20people%20even%20trie%3F

• I Googled it, R104. You appear to be correct.

  I'm not R102

• Nobody cares about Vadgedonna anymore, that's why she has to resort to stunts like pulling out her elderly 54 year old titties and showing her ass on stage to get people's attention. People with no talent have to resort to shock tactics to get people's attention. Old Vadge hasn't had a number on hit in the US in 13 years and has only had 3 top five hits since 2000. Even more embarassing, 9 of her singles since 2000 didn't even make the Hot 100 chart. Shows how irrelevant she is now. Hell, even in the UK where they used to lover her isn't buying her shit anymore.

• [quote]Madonna's MDNA Tour grossed $305 million last year, the tour cost about $100 million to mount ans produce, Madonna's Live Nation contract stipulates that she gets 90% of the tour profit, that 90% of $205 million plus it stipulates that she gets 75% of alk merchandise sales(not just merchandise profits) Question: Why are you so excited about how much money Madonna makes? It's not like she's giving you one penny of her fortune, so why are YOU so excited about how much money SHE makes?

  Morons

• Well I googled official websites like Billbord magazine and Business Insider. Not fan clubs. And wherever this figure came from (rather convenient if you ask me) even if it is true, Springsteen still managed to tie her even though he only sold out fifty four of his seventy two shows. But again, rather convenient that these South African shows just happened to not be added into the official tally.

• R104 I'm not a fan of Mariah but I have nothing against her abd wish her well with her comeback. The thing with Madonna is everybody ALWAYS TRIES TO UNDERMINE HER ACHIEVEMENTS people are so jealous and can't stand the fact that this girl with a modest voice has become the biggest selling femsle artist of all time and the highest grossing solo touring artist of alk time People resort to lies and wishful thinking and calling her old and saying she has no talent to undermine her achievements. People are like how dare she not become a drug addict and destroy her career they get so angry and jealous with her success,I've seen people do this with Oprah too.

  anonymous%20

• [quote]The thing with Madonna is everybody ALWAYS TRIES TO UNDERMINE HER ACHIEVEMENTS Nobody is trying to deny her achievements - after all, you stans make sure to list them at every opportunity you have. I think the problem is you Vadge stans don't want to adknowledge other female singers achievements. You want to act like your damn precious Vadge is the only damn female singer, and people are tired of it. You have to bring up the old bitch in EVERY thread about another female singer. It's so tiresome. Congrats - you Vadge stans have ruined ANOTHER thread. I'm done reading.

• R106 you do realize she's in her 50's artists in their 50s aren't exactly gonna set the singles chart on fire. Even Cher just came back with that ONE hit and that was it. Madonna had a top 10 hit last year the last time an artist in their. 50s achieved that was on 1999! People will always care about Madonna judging from her huge touring numbers and her SuperBowl perfotmance which was the most watched TV show in US history attracting 3 milliin more viewers than the game. Didn't Mariah's kickoff single fail to chart on the Hot 100?

  ouch

• R106 didn't janet rip out a titty on stage during a family show? Madonna did it as part of her performance for her already SOLD OUT show it was during her Like a Virgin opera number and if you seen the show you would realize it was part of her performance art. One more time MDNA TOUR 88 SHOWS $305 MILLION GROSS 2.2 MILLION TICKETS

  anonymous%20

• I'm a huge lamb, but I don't hate every other artist or Madonna. r97, Mariah does not write lyrics to an existing track in most cases. She sits/stands there as a guy plays the piano and she tells him which direction she wants chords to go and then she sings a melody over it and later writes lyrics by herself to that melody that she created. Mariah's "We Belong Together" was #1 for 14 weeks on the hot 100 and the remix was also #1 for approximately the same amount of weeks. When was the last time Madonna had a decent hit in the US? I thought "Give In To Me" was good and I heard it a lot on my summer vacation in Europe that year, but never heard it in the US. She has since had r101, Mariah won't do EDM, but the Pulse remix of Triumphant was actually really cool and a hell of a lot better than the horrible original version with rappers. Music was #1 in 2000, Hung up #7 in 2005, 4 Minutes was #3 with Justin, Give Me All Your Luvin was #10 with Nicki Minaj and MIA. Mariah hasn't had a ton of hits in the last decade, but Touch My Body, Obsessed, Don't Forget About Us, and a few other songs faired okay on the charts.

• R101 I hate to say it but Mariah is in her 40's ageist radio will not be playing her, it sucks. Hung Up had huge sales in the US #1 for weeks on single sales but airplay was mimimal due to Madonna being 47, the song did go to #7 but it went to #1 in basically EVERY country with a chart system. A TRUE global icon.

  anonymous%20

• Why is Madonna being mentioned in a thread about a singer who can actually SING??? Next thing you know, someone will mention Janet Ja....oops.

• R113 Don't radio Me went to #4 in 2001 and Die Another Day went to #8 in 2002, both songs spent weeks at #1 on the hot 100 sales charts, but due to lack of airplay they didn't go to #1 on the main hot 100. I'm actually suprised Madonna has had the singles success she's had in the last 13 years in the US with ageism so bad at radio.y Madonna has had 7 top 10 singles since she turned 40, I think that's the most for any 40+ female artist. Mariah hasn't had any since she turned 40 Madonna also has more top 10 songs (38) than any artist in history. Tina Turner scored 6 top 10 hits when she was 40+

  anonymous%20

• Give the Janbot credit, at least it can hold an actual discussion about Janet Jackson as an artist. The Madonnabot simply regurgitates the same tired FACTS in countless threads. I don't think it's ever once had an in depth discussion about her artistry, and not the business commodity.

• R115 Mariah HAD an amazing voice, but not so much anymore. Also Madonna dances and plays instruments Mariah not so much. There's more to talent than singing, it's all about being an all around performer

  anonymous%20

• Madonna releases she shittiest songs from her albums then her fans scream ageism when they're not hits. For a while, probably not anymore, radio would have given her some slack on her age had she given them better material. She chose not to.

• R119 but Madonna has had more hit songs than any artist in history and has had 7 top 10 hits at 40+ which is a miracle The only females who came close were Tina and Cher who had 6 top 10 hits at 40+ plus So your claims are baseless and for the record radio does not play older artists no matter how good their stuff is that's why Mariah and Janet will never have a huge hit again

  anonymous%20

• Madonna may dance and play instruments but she doesn't do either of those things very well.

• [quote]Madonna has had more hit songs than any artist in history She absolutely has not. You're pretending the repeatedly revamped Billboard stats from one pop chart during one time period is some all-encompassing historical document. It's not. It's not even accurate for the modern rock/pop era. As one example, many of Elvis Presley's hits aren't counted. Not to mention singers like Crosby or Sinatra. You remain a deluded obsessive and a liar to boot.

• R122 I should of said the rock era which dates back to 1956. Madonna has 38 top 10 hits, Elvis 36, the Beatles 34,Stevie Wonder 28 Michael Jackson 28 Janet Jackson 28 and Mariah Carey and Elton John 27. On the United World Charts Madonna has 48 top 10 hits and a staggering 22 number 1 singles, more than any other artist.

  anonymous%20

• So what is the record Rihanna is supposed to be breaking?

• R122 the website for the United World Charts is www.mediatraffic.net All you have to do is Google Madonna Billboard chart records including the FACT that for their 50th anniversary Billboard counted down the top 50 artists of the Hot 100 era, Madonna came in at #2 behing the Beatles. I resent being called a liar, when these are FACTS that you can Google See what I mean, when I said earlier that people are jealous and can't stand Madonna's success and resorst to lies to down play it.

  anonymous%20

• Also Madonna has had 156 Billboard #1's on all charts combined more than any artist in history. Don't believe me? Google Madonna 156Billboard #1's. If Madonna's next album goes to #1,she'll set a new Billboard record for female artist with the most consecutive #1 albums, it would be her 6th breaking her tie with Janet. She'll also tie Striesand for the female artists with the most #1 albums on Billboard both will have 9.

  you%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20truth

• R124 the record that. Rihanna took from Madonna was female artist to have 20 top 10 hits in the shortest period of time, Rihanna beat her by a few months. I didn't even know Madonna had that record, she has so many world records they cancel each other out.

  anonymous%20

• Madonna has a record for winning the most records! She has over 20 Guinness World Records the most of any female performer. I love going to their website and seeing her records.

  anonymous%20

• Vadgebot MELTDOWN alert! R81/R88/R90/R93/R95/R96/R99/R100/R104/R109/R111/R112/R114/R116/R118/R120/R123/R125/R126/R127/R128 = The same person

  Sad!

• Oh so Rihanna already broke it. I heard about some record she was supposed to break but never knew which one it was.

• Madgebot, I'm starting to worry about you, this is not healthy.

• R129 I'm done with educating people on Madonna's world records and achievements as the biggest selling female artist of all time, highest grossing solo touring artist of all time, artist with the most #1's in Billboard history, artist with the most #1 singles om the world charts and according to Forbes richest female artist of all time Let's get back to Mariah

  anonymous%20

• Madonna also grabs and massages her vadgina on a bed in front of thousands of her fans while singing on stage. Truly multi-talented...and an embarrassment.

• [quote]Let's get back to Mariah Will Mariah ever release a half decent album ever again?

• Is Mariah's husband a lamb or a gold digger?

• [quote]Will Mariah ever release a half decent album ever again? Maybe if she'd go back to her pop roots and stopped doing that boring rent-a-rapper hip-hop shit she's been doing since the late 90's. She's 43 and too old for that shit.

• [quote]She's 43 and too old for that shit. She has no self awareness, someone should sit her down and tell her.

• Despite what Mariah claims, I think that she knew exactly what she was doing when she got involved with Tommy Mottola. I remember the reports when they got together - she was a 19/20 year-old girl who went after a 40 year old guy who was married. She was determined to make it in the record business and threw herself at him from first meeting. He divorced his wife, married her and thus, she was assured that Sony would put their muscle behind making her a star. However, I think she didn't realize that she wouldn't be able to call the shots just cause she was the bosses wife. She wanted to be R&B from the beginning but Tommy knew she wouldn't be as successful in that market. She whined/complained he was controlling and emotionally abusive. However, it was reported that she was yelling at him in the hotel lobby the year she didn't win a Grammy. No emotionally abused woman would be doing that. It was shortly after that, she left him. I think she is an immature delusional woman, who also happens to be talented. She slept her way to the top and now she can't understand why she is no longer successful once she is on her own. She has the talent, but has no business sense. Now, I think she is damaged.

• r138, is clueless. She didn't throw herself at him from the first meeting. They said "hi." Brenda K. Starr is the one who gave Mariah's demo tape to Tommy while Mariah was in the bathroom. She was also working on a deal with Warner Bros. at the time. She didn't sleep her way to the top. He heard her voice on the tape after only saying "hi" in person and turned around and signed her to a deal a few days later. Duh. Stop imagining things.

• Maybe Mariah was a virgin and maybe she did love Tommy (personally I think she saw him as a father figure); but she knew what she was doing when she married the head of a huge record label.

• I like her new song Almost Home, am really surprised that it's flopping,much better than that Triumphant bullshit. The sad thing about Mariah's success is that it is OVERWHELMING based on US radio support, and now that she's of "a certain age" no matter how good her new material is ageist radio will barely play it. But Katy Perry can release a song of her farting and burping and US radio will be all over that shit She doesn't have the huge international appeal of Madonna Nor is she one of those legacy touring artists like U2, the Stones, Madonna or Celine or Cher that people the world over would pay good money to see live. Looks like it's diet ads and American Idol from here on out.

  anonymous%20

• R141 makes a good point. Mariah really needs to stop relying on appealing to the young, cool, hip-hop crowd and make a proper adult album. I wonder if Adele's success might inspire her to do something more along those lines?

• [quote]I like her new song Almost Home, am really surprised that it's flopping,much better than that Triumphant bullshit. It's flopping because the song sounds dated. She needs to go back to the adult contemporary pop she did earlier in her career. And she REALLY needs to stop with the guest rapper appearances. She's 43 and is too old for that shit.

• R133 that was over 20 years ago and Prince ha done worse, it doesn't take away from his talents Madonna is not a vocalist but a petforming artist, when she's on stage she plays roles and characters, it becomes part of het art. Same thing with an actress doing a sexually explicit role in a film, she's not like that in real life, but playing a role. That's what Madonna does onstage and thru all her incarnations. I'm a fan of Mariah and LOVED her old voice, but the 2 are completely different. Madonna has always been controversial, political and opinionated and has championed women to be sexually liberated and gay rights. Mariah is just an amazing singer with very little if any cultural influence. Ironically it's when Madonna is her LEAST sexual and controversial that people seem to love her the most and she has her strongest commercial success Ray of Light is a MASTERPIECE of an album, Madonna wasn't sexy or controversial at all doing this period. It was all about Madonna the musician, the songwriter, the strong vocalist, the creator. Mariah can sing circles around Madonna but she has yet to comr up with an album as great as Ray of Light, no other mainstream female pop artist haa, including Madonna herself.

  anonymous%20

• R144 Please stop the Madonna bullshit. We don't need yet ANOTHER thread turned into a Vadgedonna vs. {Insert any female artist here}.

• I though "Ray of Light" was pretentious shit, GOOP herself couldn't have come up with better. Mariah had three great albums: "Music Box", "Daydream" and "Butterfly". Her first two are quite good but some tracks needed skipping. "Rainbow" has some choice cuts but sounds VERY dated overall. The later ones are pretty much exclusively bad.

• R146 that's your opinion the music critics, Grammy voters and world at large beg to differ. No other mainstream female pop artist has had an album as acclaimed as that. It shut a lot of Madonna haters up, who falsely claimed that she was only popular because of her sex appeal The final song on the album Mer Girl is about Madonna running away to the cemetery where her mom is buried and imaging "her rotting bones and decay", really deep stuff. The kind of songs you would find on an experimental independent artists album. Too bad her recent material has had insipid lyrics like " I'm a girl gone wild", with Madonna still trying to prove she has a goof body in her 50s, we get it Madge! The Ray of Light Madonna needd to return.

  anonymous%20

• I love Mariah's new duet with Miguel

  http://www.vh1.com/music/tuner/2013-05-06/mariah-miguel-beautiful-2/

• R148 Sounds like horseshit. It'll be a flop like all of her other recent songs.

• It sounds awesome. When was the last time Babs or Madonna had a song on the radio? Do you remember, gramps?

• R148/R150 = Lamb

• hell yeah

• After one listen I have to say it's a really good song.

• R150 = Nick Cannon, desperately praying that his meal ticket will keep raking in the big bucks

• It's better and more original than JLo re-hashing the same shit with Pitbull guest starring.

• I'm really impressed with Miguel too. Adorn is a great song and so is "Do You Like Drugs."

• It's #4 on iTunes and has a 92% rating for the LA Times with readers saying it's the song of the summer. Congrats Mimi!

• I find her voice and personality annoying and all that she's recorded is shit not worth owning.

• What I dislike is that Mariah keeps recording music that is beneath her and her talents. She's capable of greatness as both a singer and a songwriter, yet she keeps doing this ghetto muzak. Is she deliberately trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator?

• she's neither a songwriter nor a great singer, she's vapid, look at her pricess-y wedding a few days ago. She lacks depth and versatility. None of her songs are rocking, either melodically or lyrically or percussion-wise. She's always been ultra-commercial and boring.

• R27 I can't believe this thread has gone on for years and no one has mentioned the reason Mariah's voice has turned to crap. It's because of that breathy, whispery shit she does. Doing that shit wrecks your vocal chords. Her mom was an Opera singer, she should have known better and yet still did that shit. And I don't hate her. I find her fine for what she is... mindless, pop and R&B and I can respect the fact that she doesn't try to pretend she's anything but that. I'll also give her credit for still being a nice person, at least to her fans. I recall in her MTV Cribs episode (which is CLASSIC), she made some comment that one of her bedrooms was for her fans. Two delusional fans showed up at her door expecting to be able to stay. Instead of telling them to fuck off, she put them up in a hotel and paid their expenses.

• R80 I remember Mariah commenting that Tommy was fucking with her and I thought she was just crazy. She even went so far as to comment about how he was having J-Lo and Beyonce do shit like stealing her sound and looks, and basically following a Mariah formula. Again, I thought she was full of shit and then I heard and saw some of it and realized she wasn't exactly crazy. Tommy is sick and does fuck with people like that. Mariah's career basically went to shit until she "apologized" to Tommy and had his back over the Michael Jackson thing.. and then after that, her career magically picked up again.

• [quote]she's neither a songwriter nor a great singer I did overstep it when I said a great singer. She was a great songwriter. She once had the potential to be a great singer, considering her voice's natural ability in relation to her lack of training. Like any decent singer she would require training, but she was quite impressive for what she was - a pop singer. She lip-synches now and her voice is shot.

• [quote]I can't believe this thread has gone on for years and no one has mentioned the reason Mariah's voice has turned to crap. It's because of that breathy, whispery shit she does. Doing that shit wrecks your vocal chords. Her mom was an Opera singer, she should have known better and yet still did that shit. She didn't start off doing that breathy singing, it only began around "Music Box". That in itself hasn't damaged her voice, but rather the poor technique she uses did. And you're right, her technique is remarkably bad for someone who's mother is a opera singer. Really, shockingly bad. I think she stopped training her voice after her divorce from Mottola. [quote]I remember Mariah commenting that Tommy was fucking with her and I thought she was just crazy. She even went so far as to comment about how he was having J-Lo and Beyonce do shit like stealing her sound and looks, and basically following a Mariah formula. Again, I thought she was full of shit and then I heard and saw some of it and realized she wasn't exactly crazy. Tommy is sick and does fuck with people like that. He really did try to do that. He had Lopez cover "Do You Know Where You're Going To?" and sample another song Carey was planning on using just to prevent her success, out of spite

  http://www.peopleenespanol.com/sites/default/files/images/2013/01/07/mariah-carey-tommy-mottola-thalia_400x300_54.jpg

• It wasn't "Do You Know Where You're Going To" it was a sample of an old song, I think "Firecracker" that Mariah was going to use for a song on Glitter and Tommy found out about her intentions and the fact that she was going to do a duet with JaRule and he had a new song written using that sample before Mariah could do it and that song was "I'm Real" with JLo and JaRule that was a big hit so Mariah felt so pissed and upset that he was fucking with her creative process.

• Sorry, my post should've been clearer, R165. I didn't mean to say Lopez was going to sample "Do You Know Where You're Going To", I meant she was to record the song at Mottola's insistence, which she did.

• Mimi s fine, though very affected, and lots of studio recording tricks involve,. and she opted to shake her booty as attention getting. Believe she is a closet Bi. Mimi will never be able to shake being "runnerup" to Whitney, frankly I think she had profound respect for Ms Houston (if not more) and is pretty OK/honest about it.

  Believe%20in%20Miracles

• She'll always be considered Whitney-lite even though they sounded nothing alike.

• Part of the reason her voice deteriorated is because she has been constantly working and traveling for the 23 years since she came out. Whether you think she's good or bad, she is very musical and involved in creating her songs and then has to go around the world promoting them. She also works throughout the night and has a horrible sleep schedule.

• R167 I don't know about that. Mariah has a huge ego (like they all do) and might not see herself as being #2 to Whitney. 1) Mariah's still alive (and she probably sees that as a win) 2) She has more #1s than Whitney (again, in her head, this probably means she's not #2 behind her) and 3) Mariah's been named as the most influential vocalist for the new generation of singers, multiple times, beating out Whitney Houston. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that any of this means anything... and I'm not saying I think Mariah wasn't a runnerup... I'm just saying, I wouldn't be surprised if she never saw herself this way and those things played a part in her conclusion.

• R169 Um. No. Her voice is wrecked because of how she used her voice. As has been pointed out, the whispery singing and the bad technique. Any singer who properly used their voice and had technique would be able to go 20+ years and more, even with a heavy schedule, and not have the problems Mariah's had.

• Please Mariah Carey can hold her own against Whitney Houston in talent and diva-ness. Perhaps even more than Houston especially in terms of popularity.

• History will probably be kinder to Houston because of her earlier death.

• Yes, Mariah's technique is responsible for her problems.

• [quote]Mariah's been named as the most influential vocalist for the new generation of singers, multiple times, beating out Whitney Houston. Wrong. [quote]Please Mariah Carey can hold her own against Whitney Houston in talent and diva-ness. Perhaps even more than Houston especially in terms of popularity. Wrong again.

• Mariah is an immature fruitcake in her behavior but she does seem to be smart enough to manage her money well.

• R175 Wrong

• What technique does Mariah use? What is the correct technique? How can you not enjoy Dreamlover?

• [Quote]What technique does Marian use? She doesn't. Clearly you're not paying attention.

• Mariah just didn't have the same vocal dynamics as Whitney. She had one more octave, but less power than Whitney in all their respective octaves. Plus, Whitney could burst through all her registers effortlessly; Mariah had to work to move through her registers. And then there's Whitney's tone, which is like silk and phrasing, which is, to me, is a thousand times more interesting. I realize tone and phrasing are subjective... But, really, it's not even close. And all the records and charts have more to do with Whitney not producing as much content. I will give Mariah props for staying alive. That does mean something.

• Mariah has been flopping like crazy on the charts lately It's a shame because she's really talented and her song from OZ was really good The problem with Mariah is she NEEDS the charts and airplay to be successful and with radio not playing many artists over 40 her music career is basically over To make matters worse, she's no Madonna who can't sell out arenas and stadiums the world over and break records with her tours.

  anonymous%20

• I meant to say Mariah is no Madonna, Mariah can't sell out arenas and stadiums the world over and break touring records like Madonna can.

  R181

• R180 I thought most sources cite Whitney as having 3 octaves and Mariah 5. And I think the point of those comparisons wasn't to say Marian was better but to say why Mariah probably never thought of herself as second to Whitney.

• Lightweight Whitney? I thought the general consensus was that Whitney herself was lightweight

• but back to the hands; it's the music going through her and out. I find it organic and beautiful in it's accompaniment.

• r179, ok, I get it. You know the proper technique for singing and Mariah doesn't know shit. Let's recap... Mariah has 18 #1's, 200 million records sold, millions of fans around the world, WROTE the ONLY modern Christmas classic, and is still extremely famous 23 years after her debut. You....and you are??? A lot of good your perfect technique did ya.

• Fairytale of New York?

• [quote]What technique does Mariah use? What is the correct technique? Below is a link to a piece far more authoritative than I could write. But some notable things she does wrong: 1) Moving her jaw when attempting vibrato and melisma. (this is very amateur) 2) When singing in her breathy voice, she sings from her mouth not her stomach. This constricts her larynx. 3) She sings her low notes in her modal voice, rather than moving closer to vocal fry. This puts pressure on the very bottom of her larynx.

  http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php%3Ft%3D1750007

• R27 I apologize -- I hit Trolldar by mistake! Thou art not a troll (I hope). Sorry!

• Is Mariah as much of a bitch in real life as she's rumored to be?

• [quote] I apologize -- I hit Trolldar by mistake! Thou art not a troll (I hope). Sorry! Don't worry about that, R189. People don't if or when they've [italic]Trolldar'd[/italic].

• [R180] Whitney had 5 octaves, and yes any voice coach will confirm that Whitneys vocals were effortless, seamless from the bottom to the top. Mariah cannot do this, and doesnt have what Whitney had in shear power.

  Anonymous

• R186 you're proof that some people make it into adulthood without the capacity to actually think. I'm going to assume that you're just too stupid to realize that Mariah's accomplishments do not preclude her from not using proper technique. And you tried to use her WRITING a Christmas song as an argument that she has technique? You really are stupid aren't you? Yes, because writing a song means you know how to use your voice properly. And having a #1 hit mand selling millions of albums means you have proper technique. Well, then, Britney and Madonna have something new to add to their resumes!!!

• We really need to talk about her epic meltdown around 1999. I remember hearing that she slit her wrists, and then later she said she denied it (she said she dropped some dishes and they shards cut her). She also appeared on MTV in a baby doll, pushing an Ice cream cart. To me her voice never really sounded the same after this period. It was rumored that she contracted HIV from Luis Miguel and it drove her over the edge. Discuss?

• R194 To be fair, Mariah would wear a baby doll and push an ice cream cart on any given day.... no need for a meltdown for her to do that. And the whole, "she got HIV and it drove her over the edge rumor," is the new "boy band member had to get his stomach pumped because it was full of cum." That rumor is now used for any female singer who has a breakdown.

• Can we talk about Mariah's new song now? I actually don't mind it. Sounds like it has potential for a lot of summer airplay. She's sort of genius for having "her" new release basically sung by someone else while she for all intents and purposes, just sings the chorus.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DmWYwerDmvrY

• I've never really heard anyone say Mariah was a bitch except Nicki Minaj.

• Mariah's new song is too plodding and too far from the mainstream. She should've released the Pulse Remix of her Triumphant song because that was amazing.

• So did she lipsync her medley on AI last night or not? Cause if not, her voice is "back."

• This is one of the best Mariah performances. Not as affected, and she lets go near the end. So good. Joy to the world!

  http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DlSVxqTDwpEY

• Her new song is a flop just like all of her songs in recent years.

• R200 I could only get 30 seconds in before I just couldn't with her Lhaso Apso hairstyle.

• oh r202 give it a shot! The hair was wack and silly. But her voice was perfection in that performance!

• R188 knows exactly what he is speaking about, and whatever octaves Mariah had, her poor technique makes it VERY likely she does not have them now - nor has she had them for years, based on all of her performances. Whitney, of course, destroyed her voice completely.

• There seem to be a lot of voice experts on here, so I have a question. WH - on another thread they talked about her neck veins popping when she sung (strain) & I believe that MC also has had this same problem. I thought MC had "technique" as her mother was an opera singer. I feel a bit confused about the whole thing, maybe someone here can clear it up. I also read the link on MC's voice on digitalspy that was excellent, regarding her use or overuse of her nodules, which is a really bad technique according to the people on that forum. Hope someone can decipher what I'm saying. I'm not really a fan of hers or WH's but these intelligent discussions about voice fascinate me so I wind up on them.

• R205 Mariah SHOULD have technique because her mother was an opera singer. The thing is, she doesn't. That's what makes it all the more mind blowing. She was probably always just too lazy to put in the work and just relied on her natural ability. It was enough (phenomenal actually) to get her by and so she didn't bother.

• Many an opera singer lost their voice due to having not poor technique, but the wrong technique for their voice.

• I totally agree R205. I love reading about it. And I've never owned a CD by Mariah, Whitney, Barbra, Celine, etc. But I'm fascinated by how singers sing. So, did Mariah lip sync on Idol last night? Anyone?

• If you like Mariah Carey,and Barns,and CHANDELIERS...you'll love Mariah Carey's new video!!!

  The%20Soup

• R209 Mariah's spastic lifting of her skirt like a 3 year old in a chandeliered barn was worth the price of admission.

• R208 There's debate about whether or not she did. Some experts say there's one portion of the performance 2:15 - 2:20 where it seems like her lips are out of synch, but same producer said it could also just be a bad camera edit. Another producer commented that what she's doing on the vocals is so complicated that he would have expected that if she were lip synching, it would be noticable because it would be easy to make a lot of mistakes, which she didn't. Mariah's people were quick to say that she did not lip synch nor did she use a track. The consensus is, she's either got her voice back, or she is extremely good at lip synching.

• [quote]So, did Mariah lip sync on Idol last night? Anyone? Judging by the horrible and embarrassing ratings for the finale, I don't think anyone even watched.

• I was at the taping. Yes, she did lip sync on certain phrases and words like the first line of Hero, but then she did "dreams are hard to follow" live and she sang "and then a hero" live but the "comes" was lipped. It was frustrating as a fan because she definitely did sing a fair amount live and I thought she sounded really good on the live stuff. Also, during the breaks she sang a bunch of different other snippets of her songs without any music and it sounded incredible. For real, her voice is incredible still. I'm talking about laid back type notes not huge belting. For instance, she sang a lot of "Underneath The Stars" and it honestly sounded exactly like her original vocals on that song from 1995, but it was just her singing to the fans while they waited to do the next take. She is super critical of herself and she thinks people expect her to match the incredible notes from the studio "Hero" version from 1993 instead of her just altering the song to notes that she can still hit today. She belted other big notes well live so I don't know why she didn't at least try the ones on Hero and WBT. The editing job that AI did of the 3 takes Mariah did certainly made it look worse than it was, but then they uploaded a version to YouTube after the show and that didn't seem as off. She also said they didn't have time to rehearse and the medley had some weird transitions that cut certain lines that confused her. I love her new song and it's not a flop. It's still #7 on iTunes a week after it came out.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGwoIvKWPV_o

• She's got a decent voice but no soul. I really can't stand her. I temped at Sony Music in her heyday when she was married to Mottola and what a raging cunt she was....hated by all.

• Jesus, the AI performance is embarrassing because of those fans holding the signs that were obviously handed to them by her team.

• Mariah doesn't have the same exploding veins as Whitney. It's the opposite, when she breathes in it seems effortless. I've always been curious what she's doing because there is a very small part at the back of her neck the goes in and out. 0:55 from this video

  http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DFkDpwF6-QiA

• Whitney Houston had a *five* octave vocal range? What were the highest and lowest notes that she could sing? Or is this just one of those ignorant fangurl claims like one of Mimi's lambs once telling me that Mariah's range was seven octaves?

• r216 is there a live video of her singing & you can show me the non-exploding veins? Because your link is a video not to live singing. Also does anyone think all her facial plastic surgeries, especially her nose hurt her voice?

• [quote]I love her new song and it's not a flop. It's still #7 on iTunes a week after it came out. The iTunes chart means nothing. If it's not on the Billboard Chart, it's a flop.

• Does Mariah Carey like Pancakes?

• r219 "Beautiful" is #24 currently on the Billboard chart, it's been out for a few weeks. #7 on the Hip Hop R & B chart at Billboard, #2 on Rap/Hip Hop digital songs all on the BB link.

  http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/1560771/mariah-careys-beautiful-off-to-strong-radio-sales-start

• [quote] Or is this just one of those ignorant fangurl claims like one of Mimi's lambs once telling me that Mariah's range was seven octaves? To be fair, this idea that Mariah had a seven octave range started when she first came out. Her management team released several press releases saying that's what she had. Apparently the only way it could be true was if she could sing like Barry White in her lower register... she's never done so.

• I think Whitney had a four octave range, Mariah a five. But Whitney had no gaps in between registers. Mariah does/did. And Whitney could sing through each register with incredibly ease.

• Cleo Laine had a four octave range. Whitney Houston did not have as wide a range as Cleo Laine.

• Mariah Carey calls herself an Alto. The term is Contralto, and it is next to meaningless in classifying popular singers, but we all do it. I think the reason she calls herself an Alto is so that people will be more impressed with her "range", and her undeniable whistle register, which though not usual is nothing special. Melba Moore's was better and better utilized, and even Kelly Clarkson has it, but doesn't use it. It is an incongruous sound to most popular singing. Mariah's signature trick...along with her race jumping. Mariah is not a contralto and her low tones are only OK, shaky in pitch and power and she has many breaks in her voice between registers, and as her mother, the "opera" singer could tell her, that ruins many a career. Mariah made it work in the beginning when all tools were in her box, but it was actually always awkward. She had a few fine moments and is admired for the surprise elements in her singing, but seldom for her overall performance. A (coloratura) soprano like Kristen Chenoweth, with a little over three octaves is far more impressive as her tone is beautiful in all places and her voice is both trained and capable of moving from low tones to beautiful high notes with full volume and control. Christina Aguilera has a higher voice than Carey, but has that smoky timbre that makes for better low notes. Celine Dion is a pure soprano, but sometimes calls herself a mezzo-soprano, because that is what her idols, Sreisand and Whitney are. But Celine does not have the deeper tone that would make her a mezzo. She is a beautiful soprano though. But yes, Mariah had five octaves and is most realistically a mezzo soprano. Streisand had less than three octaves and Whitney three octaves and three semi-tones. The range means nothing if you don't have the tones, the fluidity or the taste to sing correctly. Carey has the worst technique. She powered through for about 5 years, and it has been semi lip-synced or just breathy vocals ever since. Truly a terrible singer. But once a wow voice. Complete parts of her voice have gone and she can not sing softly in tune, a real give away. Her mid register is also shot. There is a reason that non-singers sing uptempo karaoke, because it is easier to power than to sing with control. She actually lip syncs select phrases of her songs and sings other parts live. Beyonce does this too. Complicated sound production. For Carey this goes back as early as 1996, just 6 years after she began. She is a very lazy woman, but I think that she has recently pulled it together and seems to be working on her voice again. Just a hunch. I think her American Idol stint and her young family kind of woke her up. She is a ridiculous but not unkind according to my friends who have worked with her. If you work with Mariah, you hang with her too. She is the Princess with the whistle.

  can%20you%20tell%20I%20hate%20her%3F

• Here is Mariah's low notes while singing "You and I" by Stevie Wonder. Don't tell me 1:52 - 1:56 isn't impressive.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3De7nXIwGjWMI

• r226 OK, I won't tell you. Hopefully some one else will. You certainly picked a good performance to illustrate my points though.... Push your voice down your gut and whisper as you expel and hum and you can sound like her too.

  r225%2C%20waiting%20for%20Mariah%20to%20%22sing%22%20Old%20Man%20River

• You come across as a bitter a-hole. Saying one of Mariah's "tricks" is race jumping? You're a lovely person.

• Holy shit, does anyone actually care that much about anyone's voice? I mean either the song is good or it isn't. If it's a shit song, who cares what the voice sounds like? If it's a great song, then Tom Petty or Bob Dylan are fine.

• She should be shot for what she did to "You and I", no one should touch that and George Michael post-shot voice did too. Leave the classics alone, seriously what's the point. Very very interesting post r225, one that goes against the conventional wisdom of the lambs. It explains her vocal decline, we love the technical knowledge. Would nodules make much of a difference? Elvis Costello once said of her that she had a good voice but no taste. Ultimately I agree r229 but I do like a good voice as well. The song above all of course but equally if I can't stand the voice I don't care.

• [quote] I mean either the song is good or it isn't. If it's a shit song, who cares what the voice sounds like? If it's a great song, then Tom Petty or Bob Dylan are fine. No. A song has to [italic]sound[/italic] good. I can't abide a damaged voice.