A guy I know told me that one of his friends told him that his former college roommate who worked for American Airlines on 9/11 is missing. This friend told him that he tried to find his college roommate on Facebook but instead found his sister. They started chatting and the sister told his friend that her brother heard the conversations between the pilots and air traffic controllers that morning. (Remember, they never recovered the flight recorders)%0D\
Anyway, from my understanding, at least one of the hijackers was in the cockpit before the airplane took off according to the missing roommate. He disappeared not long after he told his family, because he was experiencing constant harassment. His phones were bugged, he was followed, harrassed...etc. Apparently, he isn''t the only employee that disappeared either.%0D\
His sister said he checks in to let them know he''s okay, but leaves no trace of where he is. %0D\
Isn''t that weird? %0D
Uh, of course they were in the cockpit. They flew the airplanes.
OP,. I think it''s time for nighty night.
My cousin''s best friend''s neighor told me HIS college roommate told him the same story!!%0D\
Coincidence? I THINK NOT!
Extra Special Twaddle
Hold on I have to go lock the doors, bolt the windows, and get my popcorn. . .this is gonna be good.
snugglin down with my tin hat right now
My best friend''s sister''s boyfriend''s brother''s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who''s going with the girl who saw the friend of OP''s friend''s college roommate get kidnapped at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it''s pretty serious.
I''m just passing this story along. I''m not claiming it''s the gospel truth or anything, although I''m not sure why this guy I know would lie. But whatever.
%E2%80%9CThe older dictators fell because they could never supply their subjects with enough bread, enough circuses, enough miracles, and mysteries. Under a scientific dictatorship, education will really work'' with the result that most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution. There seems to be no good reason why a thoroughly scientific dictatorship should ever be overthrown.%E2%80%9D\
- Huxley, Brave New World Revisited
I would like to know if the hijackers checked and dirty baggage?%0D\
Never has it been discussed whether or not any of these terrists checked any bags......
How is he living?
The mere fact that all eight indestructible "black boxes" went missing and the information contained on them was never made public is a clarion call that something is amiss about the official story of 9/11.\
It should have been a piece of cake to locate both boxes in the hole in the ground supposedly made by United Flight 93. The idea that it was not possible to find both boxes in the plane that struck the Pentagon is patently absurd. Are we supposed to believe they evaporated?
I''m more inclined to believe there were no hijackers and the planes were operated by our military with remote controls. The Pentagon was hit with a missile.
Yes, and they had no trouble recovering paper passports of hijackers, tiny little bone fragments to establish identity, and all sorts of perishable items but they couldn''t locate bright orange titanium boxes that have always been recovered as long as airplanes have crashed.\
The people who planned this out must''ve thought the masses are/were retards. Oh wait...
[quote]Anyway, from my understanding, at least one of the hijackers was in the cockpit before the airplane took off\
So she''s claiming that the hijacker was speaking over the radio communication devices in the plane. That doesn''t really make sense, OP. \
Let''s say the hijacker really was just chatting away in over the radio. It''s unlikely, but let''s pretend. For her story to make sense, her brother would have had to somehow be listening in to the radio chatter AND be able to recognize the voice of the hijacker. How is that possible? \
I think this lady is having a lot of fun at your expense, OP.
[quote]The mere fact that all eight indestructible "black boxes" went missing%0D\
That is not true.
The 9/11 hijackers did a full body shave. (True story, it''s a Muslin thing.)
I know some of them were found, R14, but they effectively "vanished" upon discovery and their contents were never made known.\
The data contained on the black boxes should be a matter of public record. It never will be because it doesn''t tell the same tall tale we''ve been hearing in the media since that day. By all means tell us what became of the black boxes and describe the info they contained, R14. \
But you can''t, can you?
Well, if the hijackers were in the cockpit before the planes took off I would imagine everyone involved would be on the highest level of alert there is; therefore, her brother, would be privvy to exactly what''s going on.%0D\
I think her brother was some kind of systems analyst.
OP? You''ve spouted quite enough stupid theories. Some guy told you something...yeah, whatever.
R10: [quote] The idea that it was not possible to find both boxes in the plane that struck the Pentagon is patently absurd. %0D
[quote] Early in the morning on Friday, September 14, Fairfax County Urban Search and Rescue Team members Carlton Burkhammer and Brian Moravitz came across an "intact seat from the plane's cockpit", while paramedics and firefighters located the two black boxes near the punch out hole in the A-E drive, nearly 300 feet (91 m) into the building. The cockpit voice recorder was too badly damaged and charred to retrieve any information, though the flight data recorder yielded useful information. %0D
R16: [quote] I know some of them were found, [[R14]], but they effectively "vanished" upon discovery and their contents were never made known.%0D
[quote] They located the flight data recorder on September 13 and the cockpit voice recorder the following day. The voice recorder was found buried 25 feet (8 m) below the crater. The FBI initially refused to release the voice recording, rejecting requests by congresswoman Ellen Tauscher and family members of those on board. The FBI subsequently allowed the relatives of the Flight 93 victims to listen to the recording in a closed session on April 18, 2002. Jurors for the Zacarias Moussaoui trial heard the tape as part of the proceedings and the transcript was publicly released on April 12, 2006.%0D
[quote] The cockpit voice recorder began recording the final 30 minutes of Flight 93 at 09:31:57.%0D
A friend of mine here in Boston was one of the air traffic controllers in 9/11. He worked out of Logan and is on permanent paid leave now. And noooo... his first-hand account backs up what all other clues tell us: the hijackers did not spring into action until the plane had taken off and had stabilized.
I was totally thinking the same thing, R5!
did he actually hear the chatter in the cockpit, Torta? Between the hijackers and pilots?
It makes me nervous that we have so many credulous loonies and deficients among us.
ALL flight recordings were released years ago OP.
R24 cont''d: well, there wasn''t chatter between the pilots and hijackers on Flight 11 out of Logan.\
There was normalness, then cut off of contact, then one of the hijackers made announcements meant for the passengers but they broadcast it to the air traffic controllers as well.\
My friend was only involved w/ Flight 11 (the first one). His name is Peter Zalewski if you want to Google it. His testimony is all out there on record.
I don''t know what happened on 9/11, it''s always good to find people who were part of events. I have real problems with Bush flying Bin Laden relatives out of the country when airspace was restricted. I don''t think they ever intended to prosecute or extradite Bin Laden.
Now OP, the conventions of folklore dissemination require you to say, "Well, that''s just what I was told."
Why is your friend on permanent paid leave now, R22? Because the stress of that morning makes him unable to function normally now? %0D\
I don''t know what OP''s acquaintance heard or didn''t hear that day, but it strikes me that he could have just been really freaked out by what happened that day and likely imagined the phone being bugged, harrassment, etc., and went "underground" due to his emotional/mental state.
[quote]I''m not sure why this guy I know would lie. \
The former college roommate believes what he is saying (ever since his prescription ran out).
Anytime something momentous occurs, those who know and are willing to say, get silenced. Even when the truth proves to be innocuous.\
Sometimes, it is not about what happened, but control over the story of what happened...
whistleblowers get muzzled, Sibel Edmonds is a prime example...
9/11 Truthers are very, very special people indeed, are not they?
I don''t get all the hate for Truthers - it seems like ignorance, because...\
1.) Rumsfeld stated that "noone imagined planes into buildings" - this was a lie, as they were staging war games on Sept. 11 based on "planes into buildings scenarios". \
2.) Bin Laden was paid by the CIA as a proxy militant in other countries. Read Sibel Edmonds testimony. Bush Sr. used to stay with the Bin Ladens when visiting the Middle East.\
3.)Jet fuel doesn''t burn hot enough to melt steel. Buildings that are damaged by fire or debris fall into the path of LEAST resistance - not straight down. this is basic physics.\
4.) Marvin Bush took care of security at Dulles, United Airlines, and the WTC buildings - you know, Dubya''s brother? \
wake up. stop labeling truth-seekers as special. we''re closer to reality than you are...
R40 still thinks we''re in Afghanistan looking for Osama bin Laden and that Saddam Hussein had a vast arsenal of Weapons of Mass Destruction because the Mainstream Media told him it was so.
that, or else he''s another paid shill for the PTB. they are legion.
r19, no way was any "black" box CVR damaged irretrievably.%0D\
And no way did any relatives hear the original tapes. %0D\
Very eerie, OP\
R1, OP said the hijacker was in the cockpit BEFORE the plane took off.
What continues to bother all of us in our organization is the fact that NO ONE talks about the fifth plane on 9/11.
You don''t understand what I''m trying to say. It''s like totally out there.
Well I heard that there was a bloody hook dangling from the outside part of one of the plane''s doors.
Wow. You believe some guy named Torta on an anon forum, who could be anyone on the entire planet, and you say I''m the one whose nuts.%0D\
I already said I do not take the story I posted as gospel truth in any way, shape or form. It was a third-hand story and I stated as such. I reported what I remembered being told. That''s it.%0D\
OP, come on. You were trying to plant a seed of "whoa.... what if THIS is the real truth!"\
If your friend''s brother''s roommate''s whatever''s whoever really did tell that story before disappearing, then the simplest hypothesis is probably the true one: he is or was an unmedicated schizo. Thousands of them out there, many with similar delusions. And sure, he heard the whole non-recorded conversation between hijackers and pilots... in his brain. A small sad story, but on the plane of reality it has no connection to the actual events of 9/11.
some guy named Torta
The real reason the black boxes were "never found" was they confirm there was no hijackings, and the pilots were helpless to control the planes as someone flew them into their targets from a laptop computer.%0D
It always makes me laugh how on DL and other forums flyover dolts become aviation experts, Middle East experts, and engineering experts: "Steel doesn''t melt when it get hits by an airplane!" How the hell would the likes of you know?\
Oh, and by the way with the employment situation in the US as it is, there is no one on paid leave for ten years. \
Run along, panting, pathetic trolls.
OP, you make it sound like the guy disappeared mysteriously. But then you reveal that he made himself disappear.%0D\
What''s eerie about that?
[quote]How the hell would the likes of you know?\
Because we studied the subject and we learned many easily verifiable facts such as the difference between the temperature at which jet fuel burns and the temperature, conditions, and amount of time that are required to weaken steel beams the size of those used in the WTC.
r54, MUST I make the requisite "GOOGLE" reference now for you?%0D\
Jeez Louise. Steel and the properties thereof are not exactly top-secret subjects.%0D\
A homeless guy in the park told me he knew a woman who worked at the Trade Center who told him that they were removing gold for a month before 9/11.
The No. 1 technique of discrediting real information is not to deny it but to promote absurd or ridiculous stories like this one. The very proliferation of stories tells me there is a coverup.%0D
WHY CAN''T THAT WIKILEAKS CUNT RELEASE THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT 9/11!?!?
"The very proliferation of stories tells me there is a coverup."\
Really? It suggests to me the schizophrenics have simply found a new magnet. Before 9/11 and the CIA, it was God or Demons. Reread the OP. The guy he''s describing is classic unmedicated schizo. "I have secrets. I''m being bugged. They''re all after me. I gotta disappear."
He got that scenario off t.v., dumbo R61. It was on one of the conspiracy shows. And it is intended to divert suspicion from what really happened which is that the pilots were not in control of the planes.%0D\
Anyone with even half a brain knows we were not told a true story about what happened on 9/11. Bush wanted to go to war with Iraq and they planned to blame it on Saddaam but for some reason the hijackers were not from Iraq...so someone messed up somewhere. Americans are so stupid, we agreed to bomb Iraq anyway. That is just how damn dumb Americans are.
I heard the same thing OP. Only the sister''s brother was abducted by aliens
For all you rocket scientists,
Explain the implosion of WTC 7, home of DOD, SEC, Rudy Giuliani's special task force, Secret service, and CIA, at 5:21PM in the afternoon of 911 apparently vaporizing the body of Master Special Officer Craig Miller with the secret service New York field office on loan from Washington DC
Explain how the Naudet brothers knew exactly where to focus the camera for such a close-up, unobstructed view when plane #1 hit WTC 1 when filming their supposed documentary on NYC firefighters. How did they know to focus dead center on target? THEN find themselves in exactly the right spot to film the implosion of WTC 7 at exactly the right time?
Explain why the Sheraton security roof camera was confiscated right away.
Explain the incineration of Captain Chic Burlingame's (pilot of the 747 that supposedly hit the pentagon but was really taken out over the Atlantic and incinerated at 5800 degrees F) daughter when she started getting to close to the truth.
Explain one of the short-selling fraud that netted $1.5 trillion the moment Cantor Fitzgerald were blown off the face of the earth.
and I could go on for pretty much ever.
R60 asks a good question.
The WikiLeaks cunt has already declared 9/11 settled, as in any questions are just plain silly. \
Please don''t even tell me you already worship this bitch as an authority or anything.
His refusal to touch the subject of 9/11 being an inside job is further evidence that Assange is a plant and the whole Wikileaks issue is a staged controversy. \
Consider this: there have been a great many whistle blowers blowing their whistles long and loud against the War Party for the past ten years and only now has the Mainstream Media decided to give one, and only this one, major coverage. Why?
he''s got a poison pill file distributed around the world - it can only be opened with a code that he will have released if anything happens to him. maybe he''s just pretending 9/11 is a joke - who knows what''s on that file. You know the US gov''t knows...he''s playing chess with America right now ;)
[quote] (pilot of the 747 that supposedly hit the pentagon but was really taken out %0D\
No 747''s were invoved in the events of 9/11 %0D\
[quote]the moment Cantor Fitzgerald were blown off the face of the earth. %0D\
They were in business the next day. Still are, business as usual (praised the virtues of 2011 Equities)%0D\
[quote] the incineration of Captain Chic Burlingame''s daughter %0D\
More meth, please
Look. I'm sure we weren't told everything. I'm sure the families didn't hear everything. But some of these myths are ridiculous and silly.%0D
They spring from a deep distrust and paranioia of our government and of the world we live in. They also spring from an attempt to make our enemies more formidable than they actually are.%0D
Personally, I don't believe there was some elaborate government supported plan on 9/11. I agree with Richard Clarke, we would have to be competent and we're not. %0D
I believe the Bushies definitely knew much more about an anticipated attack then we'll ever discover, and they let it happen. I think our Middle East policies at the time were deliberately provocative. %0D
They were too arrogant and too dumb to expect that both towers would collapse. They never expected 3,000+ people to die. A bomb in a parking garage, maybe a small plane hitting a building, killing a few dozen people, yes. %0D
They never expected several commercial airliners, successfully hijacked, and flown into the buildings in a coordinated attack by terrorists who went to American flight schools to learn how to fly, but not land a plane. %0D
They looked at the USS Cole attack, which was a small local boat filled with explosives and a suicide bomber, or the first WTC attack which was a van filled with explosives in a parking garage.%0D
They very likely anticipated planes flying into buildings, but it wasn't on the scale of the actual attacks. 9/11 was a terrorists' wet dream come true.
I agree with you, R71, word for word.
[quote]They very likely anticipated planes flying into buildings, but it wasn''t on the scale of the actual attacks. 9/11 was a terrorists'' wet dream come true.%0D\
It''s also probably worth pointing out that the terrorists didn''t expect it to go like it did. They were expecting to kill everyone on the planes and the impact floors, but no one expected the buildings to actually collaspe.%0D\
For whatever reason, I''ve been doing some reading about the design and building of the old WTC in the past month or two, and if I''m understanding what I''m reading correctly (and any engineers or architects, feel free to correct me) was that the building was very radically different from any building that had existed prior, and even other megastructures that have come since. It almost seems to me like it was like a house of cards--it was perfectly sound structurally under normal conditions (and even some abnormal ones)--but once part of it was disturbed it was doomed.
The Voice of the Night
this has already been debunked on Snopes
[quote]this has already been debunked on Snopes%0D\
Cue the antisemitic remarks about Snopes in 3...2...1...
The Voice of the Night
I''ve got a mule her name is Sal.
Sorry, OP, but I lost interest after "A guy I know told me that one of his friends told him that his former college..."
Then what about WTC7? And why was it covered up by mainstream media?%0D\
[quote]Cue the antisemitic remarks about Snopes in 3...2...1..\
Would pointing out the fact that Snopes is nothing more than a Jewish couple out in California who declared themselves to be the arbiters of truth be considered anti-semitic?\
In TVOTN''s world the answer to that is probably yes.
What''s it like to live in a world where actual facts mean nothing and you can blithely continue in your belief in conspiracy theories despite the preponderance of evidence?
We did this same thread two months ago..
Please...I guess you believe FOX News also, R80? What an extremely naive idiot...anyway, thanks for your participation, Miss Sunshine.
Fox? FOX? What does Fox have to do with any of it.\
And belief has nothing to do with it. I trust in verifiable facts. Not fantasies that only hold together if you deny every shred of verifiable evidence. Like the guy who 40 posts after the lie that no black boxes survived had been exposed posted, "How come no black boxes survived?" There is no evidence that would ever satisfy the tinhats, so why bother?
And dont start crying about how the word tinhats wounds you...
Thank you r19.
For me, there are two open questions:%0D\
1. How is it possible that three planes were allowed to roam the skies freely for over an hour and crash into those buildings? The first one I can understand, maybe the second, but a plane was allowed to crash into the pentagon? Really?%0D\
2. Why lie about WTC7? It was clearly a controlled demolition. I can understand taking it down after it became unstable, but then, why lie about it?%0D\
I don%E2%80%99t think it was an inside job, more an act of letting it happen.
[quote]You believe some guy named Torta on an anon forum, who could be anyone on the entire planet\
Because Torta has built up a ton of goodwill through years of posting and not changing his handle.
What about your nuts?
Torta, would you care to explain how these terrorists thought they could reach their targets without being intercepted by NORAD? thanks.
Aww thanks R85. I knew that someday, somehow, a decade's worth of wasted time on DL would count for something!
R84: Answers depend on whether you believe that the investigation was not part of a cover-up. If you believe -- as I do -- that the investigation was objective and fact-based, then it tells us that (1) NORAD didn't have its act together (which I can believe), and (2) WTC7 collapsed pancake-style like the twin towers did, but it did so due to fire damage, and evidence supports that. If you don't believe the investigation was legit, then you'll probably scoff at the preceding sentence.
As to whether Bush engineered a cover-up of "the truth" in order to attack Iraq, it seems they didn't bother and didn't need to. They got what they wanted as is. Bush and Cheney waged an aggressive "Must Attack Iraq" campaign without giving a shit about its lack of direct connection to 9/11. They relied on the usual mix of emotional manipulation, fact-bending and outright lying, and it was enough. The spectre of Saddam's nonexistent WMD even got Hillary and John Edwards voting yes to the war drums.
R71 and Torta are forgetting Fox''s new series "The Lone Gunmen," whose pilot episode featuring terrorists planning to fly a plane into the World Trade Center, aired March 4, 2001.%0D\
"r71 and Torta are forgetting Fox''s new series "The Lone Gunmen," whose pilot episode featuring terrorists planning to fly a plane into the World Trade Center, aired March 4, 2001."\
Which proves what exactly?
R86: Hard to know whether the terrorists were confident in that, or simply willing to go for it despite risk of being shot down. But the chronology of what happened suggests that the terrorists had little to worry about. The FAA was slow to decide to pull NORAD into the situation; and when they did, the FAA had little info / erroneous info (not their fault; the hijackers knew enough to make the plane disappear in the eyes of the FAA). The mastermind(s) of 9/11 may have expected this, and were probably well aware that the use of American passenger aircraft as suicide missiles was unprecedented -- i.e., NORAD would neither be trained nor ready, on the morning of 9/11, to recognize the hijackers'' full intentions. Same for airport security in general. \
The Wiki page on this is an interesting read:
Not only were the possibilities imagined, but the general public was treated to a sample.%0D\
Look, nobody says BUSH was competent (although people did routinely underestimate his skill at committing crimes). But the US special forces were and are competent.%0D
R91, the US special forces pilots themselves are competent and then some. \
But the chain of communication and information that would need to get from the sky to FAA to NORAD, quickly and accurately -- that''s where the system failed. I''m saying it''s likely that the 9/11 masterminds had an accurate sense that it would fail.
The FAA didn''t "decide" to pull NORAD into it, Rumsfeld had changed the protocol from automatic NORAD response to one subject to civilian direction.%0D\
Torta, you are nuts. In Woodward''s first book they bragged about planning to attack Hussein as early as February, 2001. The reason they never fabricated weapons of mass destruction to show us all was because it was more valuable to them to be thought so powerful they didn''t NEED to lie to compel cooperation from the public.%0D\
But they couldn''t have predicted the public would be so supine in advance.%0D
R93, my take on Iraq is pretty much the same as yours, so why the gratuitous "nuts" epithet?
About FAA and NORAD: the post on this thread a while back asked, with some incredulity, how NORAD could have failed to get to the remaining hijacked planes, particularly the latter two. Flight 93 was the last one -- here is what the Wiki tells us:
[quote]"At 9:32, he heard a voice saying "We have a bomb on board" and told his supervisor who then notified FAA Headquarters. At 9:36, FAA Cleveland called FAA Command Center at Herndon to ask whether the military had been notified - FAA Command Center told Cleveland that "FAA personnel well above them in the chain of command had to make the decision to seek military assistance and were working on the issue". At 9:49, the decision about whether to call the military had still not been made, and no one from the FAA did call them until 10:07, four minutes after Flight 93 had crashed near Shanksville, PA.
That's where I got the impression that the FAA was stuck/slow/failed on deciding whether to notify NORAD. At least in the case of Flight 93. Each flight has its own set of reasons why NORAD couldn't get to it in time.
[quote]What''s it like to live in a world where actual facts mean nothing and you can blithely continue in your belief in conspiracy theories despite the preponderance of evidence?\
There is a mountain of evidence (much of it cold hard scientific fact) that says 9/11 was an inside job. This discussion is not going to be resolved and it is not going away, not within our lifetimes and beyond.
Face it. You Americans are passe...living off faded dreams of past glories. You are incompetent, self absorbed and ignorant. All you have is all your bombs and war machine. Your time has passed.
The US government spins every story as they see fit. I watched "The Tillman Story" and they couldn''t even tell the truth about that. Why would we expect them to tell the truth about 9-11?
Shit, our government didn''t even tell us the truth about John Wilks Booth.%0D\
Anyway, Rumsfeld might be charged and tried for torture. I have my fingers crossed. Hopefully Obama won''t pull some trick to get him off.
Did I understand him correctly? The controller for American 11 and the Egyptair 990 was the same guy? And also a third aircraft?%0D\
Yep. Looks that way, Flight AA11, UA175 as well as Egyptair 990.%0D\
[quote]Who is this Pete Zalewski? Maybe the question should be who WAS he? Followed by another, what was he? How long had he been ATC prior to 9/11 and how long afterwards was he an ATC?%0D\
[quote]Perhaps he came from the same spook pool as that guy with the Harley emblazoned sweat shirt and BB cap who explained on the day how the WTC fell ''...mostly due to structural failure because the fires were just too intense.'' %0D\
OMG Torta--your friend is infamous online (I googled him, like you said). WTF?
Shit, our government didn''t even tell us the truth about John Wilks Booth.\
WTF are you talking about, r99? Of all the American conspiracy theories out there, the John Wilkes Booth one is the stupidest.
What about John Wilkes Booth? Was he an ancient alien?
He wasn''t killed after Lincoln was shot...this other guy was shot and there was this big reward, so they decided that they would say the dead guy was Booth. Booth actually went out west and did some small time acting. That pissed me off. Ignorance is bliss.
And you believe this only because someone told you it was true, R103 - you''re simply taking someone''s word for it. What''s the difference between that and believing what the government tells you? I know it''s more fun to believe the conspiracy stories but that doesn''t make them true.
Classic disinformation. People shouldn''t believe 9/11 because it was obvious, poorly executed, and could not have been accomplished by foreign terrorists without material help from the US military. But if you throw weird or unconvincing theories out there, you can surround it all with noise so that people can''t focus on what matters. %0D
Taking no position on the various crazy conspiracy theories flying around this thread...\
Torta, on this board, was WAY in front of the danger of Hurricane Katrina a few years ago. Posting the earliest, and the increasingly scary warnings, including predictions of levy breeches and major flooding in the city of New Orleans.\
Days later, when the president said something like "no one could have predicted the levies would fail," I thought of Torta''s posts, before the storm made landfall, warning of exactly that. Which warnings were initially either ridiculed or challenged, of course. \
For what it''s worth, Torta knows his stuff.
Didn''t Bin Laden admit he did it? Plus, the Bin Ladens were flown out of the country.
[quote]A guy I know told me that one of his friends told him that his former college roommate..\
this is where you lost me.
Torta knows his stuff ... except for the physics-defying idea that WTC7 pancaked down from all those steel supports collapsing, even though no plane hit it.
The call was coming from inside the plane.\
And there was a hook hanging from the handle outside the door.\
The passengers were already terrified because the flight attendant tried to dry off a passenger''s toy poodle ... in a microwave in the galley.
I completely believe the Pentagon was hit by a missal. And the fact that an almost empty part of the building was hit, tells me our government did it.
The Booth story was on the History Channel and they actually had some proof that the story was true. You must realize, Lincoln had many enemies. Washington is next to Virginia so you should realize, many people in the area would have no scruples about making some money and letting the assasin go free.
[quote]I completely believe the Pentagon was hit by a missal. And the fact that an almost empty part of the building was hit, tells me our government did it.%0D\
I really don''t think a prayer book could have caused all that damage. And the people who were killed at the Pentagon would probably argue that where they were sitting wasn''t "empty." If they weren''t dead.
You tell them, R111. It was a missal! A missal ah tells ya! And the government done dun it.
One problem is that Jews resist the conspiracy theories because they fear Mossad involvement. But the Mossad doesn''t run the Pentagon, and even if it did the responsibility would have been Rumsfeld''s, not theirs.%0D
True story-a month before the attack I stayed in the hotel in the WTC and bought a pair of jeans in the Gap that was in the basement shops. I CAN NO LONGER FIT INTO THOSE JEANS!
I have to admit, I think 99% of this is bullshit, but the whole thing with Captain Chic Burlingame is really fucking weird. He had been part of a task force that helped craft Pentagon response plans in the event of a commercial airliner hitting the Pentagon, and then ends up piloting the plane that does hit the pentagon.\
I have no problem believing in coincidence of course, but that is beyond the pale.
Well one of those muslins tried to touch me in my vagina bone area.
We would be fools to believe our government didn''t lie to us about a number of things. But we would be mentally ill if we believed they were our enemy, (or part of secret New World Order societies/reptilians/etc)\
I just wish people were more rational about it, because any legitimate rational discussion is also surrounded by blatant ignorance, hysteria, insanity and unbalanced people.\
There needs to be a forum for rational skeptics to discuss topics like this and other theories.
Regarding the Pentagon explosion, so I can believe something else besides a commercial airliner hit it, but then I never see a realistic believable explanation about what happened to the plane carrying the passengers which allegedly hit the Pentagon.... that was the one Barbara Olson was on.
Dumped at sea, R122, captain, crew and all -- flown by remote control with all aboard gassed and dead before the crash landing. \
If you had four planes start out 3/4s empty you could load everyone from all four onto one full plane with everyone thinking they were still going to CA. There were early reports on the news that morning that one of the aleggedly hijacked planes had landed in Cleveland.
[quote]The idea that it was not possible to find both boxes in the plane that struck the Pentagon is patently absurd. Are we supposed to believe they evaporated?\
There was no black box on the missile that struck the Pentagon.
What I can''t understand is why I never heard an interview with the families of the people who were on the supposed Washington plane. There were supposedly children on that plane. Sorry, but I never even saw a report of someone say they saw the plane hit and experts have said the plane is fragile and would not have made a big hole in the building...the building is well constructed. There are no coincidenses. Why did the plane supposedly fly into the least populated part of the building?%0D\
The only person who spoke of it was Olsens husband. %0D\
Believe me, I hope the bitch is dead but I doubt it.%0D
Memory is hazy on this, but didn''t Barbara Olsen place a call to her husband from the plane? Can''t remember if it was a voice mail or if she actually spoke to him from the plane.
R84 wrote: [quote]Why lie about WTC7? It was clearly a controlled demolition. I can understand taking it down after it became unstable, but then, why lie about it?
Now, there%E2%80%99s a good question. Another one would be, %E2%80%9CWhy it had been prepared for controlled demolition in the first place, and by whom?%E2%80%9D
When I saw the first tower fall, one of the first things to go through my mind was that it sure looked a hell of a lot like a controlled demolition. And then the same thing happened to the second tower. OK, maybe. But then for WTC7 to inexplicably collapse the same way? Nah, something was clearly wrong there.
For a long time I believed the buildings had been planted with explosives by the terrorists in advance of the plane crashes. All it would have taken is for a few guys to get jobs in maintenance at the WTC, and over the next several months, proceed to plant explosives at the strategic points necessary to bring the building down.
But then video surfaced of Larry Silverstein admitting to having given the order to %E2%80%9Cpull it%E2%80%9D a few minutes before the apparently structurally sound WTC7 came down controlled demolition style -- just like the two towers previously. Sorry, but it casts some serious doubts in my mind about the official story we%E2%80%99ve gotten from our government.
It also casts doubt about the whole plane-crashing attack. Why go through the trouble of doing that if the buildings are already wired with explosives, and can be brought down by remotely detonating them? The most logical answer seems to be that whoever planned and carried out the plane attack didn%E2%80%99t know the buildings were pre-planted with explosives. But someone did. Who would that be?
R125, do some fucking research.\
The witness report linked below was written by someone I used to work with for years. She was in DC traffic right by the Pentagon and saw the plane fly right over her.
Well then explain why there was that big hole in a building that was sturdy. From what I''ve read very few parts of the plane left and the parts that were found were from another type of plane. %0D\
I didn''t doubt the plane story at first but then when they said the plane just happened to go into a sparsly populated part of the building...I knew something was up. I wasn''t born yesterday, especially when it comes from a governement that lies about everything.
"but we would be mentally ill if we believed they were our enemy"%0D\
The most foolish comment I''ve ever read on Datalounge. People like GWB don''t care about patriotism, America, or the Republican party. They care about establishing a global empire of the rich. They think it inevitable, driven by scarce resources, and that most people currently alive have to die to restore the planet.%0D
They say the Pentagon was hit by a plane, but when the FBI investigators came to examine the wreckage, there were no airplane parts. All that could be found was 450 lbs of Skittles, distributed for 1 mile of the path the plane was supposedly on right before it made impact.
How could they *not* find the black box in the pentagon? If a plane had crashed at sea, i could understand how it might be impossible to find.
We did know of the risk of flying planes into buidlings. We assited France in thwarting the same tactic but against the eiffle tower. We were on notice.
No one has discussed the real evidence that this actually happned: the guy took down his facebook. Suddenly its all so clear.
There was a tv movie in May of 2001 about hijackers using planes to take down the WTC.%0D
WHY DID THE TAPES COME UP MISSING WHEN THE HIJACKER EXCLAIMED "OMG SHES AN ALIEN!! WHO THE CAPTIANS WIFE A ALIEN?WAS THIS SUCIDE OR THE BLUE BOOK PROJECT HIDDEN FROM AMERICA TO LAUNCH US IN WORLD WAR THREE OR FOUR ?
Let's look at some of the faux "Let's all be calm about this" threads.
"We would be fools to believe our government didn't lie to us about a number of things."
I submit "Remember the Maine," "Gulf of Tonkin," April Glaspie, Project MK-Ultra, the list is quite extensive.
"But we would be mentally ill if we believed they were our enemy, (or part of secret New World Order societies/reptilians/etc)"
What is mentally ill is the notion that we can spend decades putting nobody but psychopaths into the highest political offices in the land, and allowing the owners of the world's most deadly weapons to operate in secrecy with no oversight for three generations, and not expect there to be ramifications for democracy. Maintaining freedom is supposed to be work, yours and mine, not theirs. AFor you to think that these people are not your enemies is just laziness and wishful thinking.
"They spring from a deep distrust and paranioia of our government and of the world we live in. They also spring from an attempt to make our enemies more formidable than they actually are."
It is not paranoia to wonder how the trillion dollar air force we built over the decades disappeared that day. It is not our enemies who are formidable, it is institutions we are letting them run.
"Personally, I don't believe there was some elaborate government supported plan on 9/11. I agree with Richard Clarke, we would have to be competent and we're not."
And yet you have no trouble with the idea that we were able to invade and conquer a large nation in a matter of a few weeks with hardly any resources. Only 200 Americans were on the ground when the Taliban fell in Afghanistan. We used 250,000 troops to invade Kuwait in 1991 and 125,000 in 2003.
But we have no competence. None whatsoever, to carry out complex plan and keep it secret.
"I believe the Bushies definitely knew much more about an anticipated attack then we'll ever discover, and they let it happen. I think our Middle East policies at the time were deliberately provocative."
In 2001 we had no Middle East policy.
"They were too arrogant and too dumb to expect that both towers would collapse. They never expected 3,000+ people to die. A bomb in a parking garage, maybe a small plane hitting a building, killing a few dozen people, yes."
Actually we were told the average weekday population of the WTC is 50,000, so the death toll was quite reasonable. Your claim that the government couldn't imagine such a thing is at odds with the fact that in 1995 a multiple airline hijacking plot for suicide plane-bombs was disrupted in the Philippines and that the G8 summit in Genoa had also been a target of such a plot. And indeed, that just such a plot was on American t.v. in a drama aired in May, 2001.
"who went to American flight schools to learn how to fly, but not land a plane."
They were well aware of who was going to flight school all around the country.
"They looked at the USS Cole attack, which was a small local boat filled with explosives and a suicide bomber, or the first WTC attack which was a van filled with explosives in a parking garage."
You forget that the first WTC plot was suggested by an FBI informant to the terror cell.
You folks just haven't read up on the case, that's what I'm thinking.
Why is this eerie?
The comic artist in Washington state who mocked Mohammad went into hiding, too. But nobody wants to talk about that. She was receiving harassing calls and death threats and lost her job and had to move. No FBI involvement there. Nope.
Does anyone here recall that on the morning that Osama Bin Ladin's death was announced, a thread was started on here that said something about something dramatic was about to happen, and then that night...
Somebody then wrote something like, don't say nobody ever posts on DL anymore.
The Flight 93 black box recordings, both data and voice were recovered and used in court as well as for the 9/11 commission.
The problem is, American's believe just about anything the government and media tells them.
If we gave it much thought, we would know that 9/11 story really makes no sense at all. Anytime, anyone questions the government line of reasoning, that person is called a tin hat.
Oswald's magic bullet
The plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon, did you ever see the relatives of those people interviewed? I never did. Those people, except for Barabra Olson, may never have even existed.
Still no answer on why Building 7, which was never hit by a plane, collapsed at free fall speed. Even the official 9/11 report has no answer.
I'm sure in about 30 years they'll admit it was a false flag operation just like the Gulf of Tonkin. By then, 9/11 will be a distant memory, most of those involved will be dead and nobody will give a shit. Just like nobody gave a shit that 50,000 young American men died in Vietnam because of an event that never even happened.
For those of you saying things like we'd be "mentally ill" to believe this govt is our enemy, just remember the old saying: "If you want to know how someone will treat you, just watch how they treat others."
Think about what this govt has done to other countries and their citizens under false pretenses. Why in the world would you think that they would do anything less to us?
Didn't our government tell us we were never in Loas?
The most obvious lie told by the government was the retrieval of the hijackers' passports in all of the debris at the WTC site. Realistically, how did they even know which passengers actually hijacked the planes? Names and photos were released soon after the attacks.
R147, the airlines received frantic phone calls that day from friends, family members and business colleagues of every passenger and crew member on every impacted flight. 19 Middle Eastern men were not inquired about by anyone, oddly enough.
I wonder what that says to an investigator?
It's just so much bullshit and every American falling for it...seriously sad. The Bush Administration wanted to get out the story that it was Iraq who did it...in fact Cheney went around the country and in every speech blamed Iraqi's...even though the news sources blamed Bin Laden, right away. Eventually someone ask Bush on camara and he had to say it was Al Quaada and he then said Al Quaada was funded by Saddam. Too many people knew that wasn't true. The fact is, Americans are so damn stupid, you can get anything past them.
I guess this thread will stay open, as long as we don't say anything bad about Israel.
I have a friend who was able to ride a piece of debris to safety as the towers collapsed. He was huddled with a group of staff and fellow customers at Windows of the World when the floor began to give way...
Torta = the biggest moron on the planet: GWB.
I love me some conspiracy, but in all seriousness, had 9/11 been orchestrated by the US government, wouldn't Saddam or Bin Laden have made a video blog addressing their non-involvement?
There are a lot of unanswered questions about the events of 9/11/2001. There are also a hell of a lot of odd things about it too. Some of them mentioned here.
It smells distinctly of government operation.
Saddam never claimed to be involved and it is likely that all bin Laden videos were fakes.
[quote]What is mentally ill is the notion that we can spend decades putting nobody but psychopaths into the highest political offices in the land, and allowing the owners of the world's most deadly weapons to operate in secrecy with no oversight for three generations, and not expect there to be ramifications for democracy. Maintaining freedom is supposed to be work, yours and mine, not theirs. AFor you to think that these people are not your enemies is just laziness and wishful thinking.
So fucking true!!
A cabal of international warmongers blew-up the two tallest buildings in NYC , in broad daylight. Using high-powered explosives.
Still most Americans believe they fell down, in twelve seconds flat, because a couple of planes poked holes in them.
Really? You bumped this up to tell us all that?
The conspiracy stuff is too much.
What's interesting is how Americans never ask the real questions.
These guys had already been on the FBI's radar. They were here taking flying lessons. How on Earth did they drop the ball?
They spent the night before 9/11 in Portland, Maine with their skanky girlfriends. They ate at the Pizza Hut near the Maine Mall, then stayed at the Days Inn next door. No one was watching them, the FBI had dropped the ball completely. These murderers were able to move around freely. The only consolation, II guess, is that they're last real meal was at Pizza Hut.
Banality of evil. That's what Americans don't get. Everything has to be some great conspiracy. Instead of just a couple of losers who ate pizza, then hijacked planes. With box cutters. Nothing glamorous, just trash doing something evil. When some of those skyscrapers were built, long ago, people had warned about planes. Nobody listened.
So now we have NSA spying, and our civil liberties are extinct, because Americans are cowards who'd rather be 'safe' than free. The illusion of safety anyway.
You'll never wipe it out. Because there are people, like these trash terrorists, who feel they have nothing to lose.
Yes. R60. Yes I did.
R161 doesn't understand the banality of evil extends to government and the military.
People cannot believe anything other than what they were told by their government. If they did, their whole belief system and world as they know it would implode, and nobody wants that.