Watching a cable show on Amish who left - most are young men, and a couple of them are hot to death. I''m sure they are straight but I wonder if any DLers have had any experience sexually with Amish men?
I''ve wondered about gay Amish myself. There have to be some of them.
I often shop the Amish market in Philadelphia and I can honestly say that I have never seen any "hot to death" Amish guys. Or women, for that matter.
Amish men aren''t gay. The are brought up in a way that makes them straight.
I haven''t had sex with any Amish men, but I did read a book about rumspringa and part of it was devoted to gay Amish people. A lot of gay Amish leave forever, if not during rumpsringa, then shortly thereafter. They find the society way too oppressive though most continue with Amish traditions such as country/farm life, selective and frugal use of technology, and so forth. And of course, if you leave you can never contact any other Amish again.%0D\
Of course, not every gay Amish man leaves.%0D\
As for Amish lesbians, Amish women tend to conform more. So they are likely to stay put and get married and have kids. The Amish are a lot like the Mormons in that "obedience" is completely drummed into women''s skulls from the time they are born. Being isolated from the rest of society, they know nothing else. (More girls return from rumspringa then boys. They also still tend to wear their Amish garb during rumspringa more).
Some lucky guy here posted his story about an affair with an Amish farmer - who disappeared over the winter and came back with a beard (meaning he was now married). No idea what happened after that.
I''ve not tricked with any Amish men, but have played with an Old Order Mennonite dude. Sort of Amish-lite - full beards, plain dress, women wear bonnets, etc. They dress similarly, but can drive and use technology. I met him through Manhunt. I
Looks like you meant to post more, R6? I met a hot Mennonite once, so keep posting so I can live vicariously through you ;-)
There was a blond Amish boy interviewed and photographed starkers for one of the porn mags about 4 years ago. Can''t remember which one. Perhaps Insinct. VERY pretty. Uncut of course. The Rev Boyd McDonald Straight To Hell books feature one or two experiences with them.
At one New York parade gay Amish carried signs "Out Of The Barns And Into The Bars."
That is funny, R9!%0D\
I occasionally go to the Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia. I don''t see any hot Amish guys, but I do see a few hot young Amish women.
I lived in Amish Country, PA for 35 years. I saw Amish and Old Order Mennonites virtually every day, and only ONCE did I see a hot guy. He was working contstruction while I was a security guard for the site.%0D\
It''s a bit more difficult to judge the "hotness" of Amish women. They are covered from head to toe, except for the face and hands, and the blousy dresses don''t allow for much torso-inspection.%0D\
But one thing I did notice: for the most part, the Amish have very bad teeth, mostly crooked and yellow. Not sexy at all.
PA Dutch girl
what''s with the dresses, the puffy sleeves, lace collars and aprons? its not only the amish, but the mormons and mennonites who dress in this style.
The guys in this cable show were all young and many were well built, shirtless, and with solid bodies. A few of the ones who had just left the communities were scrawny and plain, but some were downright consumable.%0D\
I know the lifestyle and hetero patterns are beaten into them, and this show wasn''t more broadly focused than to show the difficulty with leaving. Some ex-Amish in the towns around the communities work with these guys to help them find work and pursue education if they want it.%0D\
But there were at least half a dozen guys who worked in construction, had great tans and upper bodies, and most DLers would be drooling over them.
There are no lace collars. Lace would be considered "fancy," and the goal of the Amish/Mennonites is to be "plain," as a sign of their humility. %0D\
Mennonite women do wear a small gauzy cap over their (long) hair. They are not allowed to cut their hair, but they''re not allowed to display it, either. They braid it and roll up the braid under the cap.%0D\
I have to admit, though, that Amish outside of PA do not always obey their regulations. The PA Amish came here first. Those that left PA do not always conform as strictly as the PA Amish do.
R13? Which state was this show filmed in?
Remember all the hottie"Amish" in the movie Witness?
The ex-Amish on the show were in Columbia, MO, and they were discussing Amish in Wisconsin, Indiana, and Missouri.
There were some pretty cute guys in that reality series where kids on rumspringa lived with regular kids ....%0D\
I recall a book about an Amish guy who killed his wife and some other guys (and ultimately his young son died in his care too). He led a secret gay life (and I''m embarrassed to say he seemed pretty hot)/ I think his name was Eli and the book was called ''Abandoned Prayers''.
The link below is to the main NatGeo website, but go to the link "Ex-Amish Mentor" and watch - about a minute into the video you can see the young studs helping pour concrete, and the one who wants to go to college is shown in an interview.%0D\
I''d sponsor him and pay his tuition if he''d just sleep in my bed :)
r17, that one 4th from the right is sure loading some bitch who stole her sweet Jebidiah with stink eye and likely muttering, "thou art a scarlet woman cunt" to her.
Isn''t the guy in the video who owns the construction company, the same Mose who was on "Amish and the City" about five years ago? If so, he''s certainly put on a few pounds.
The UPN reality show "Amish In The City" had that one Amish kid - Randy - who seemed incredibly gay.
Actually R11/R14, it''s the opposite. The PA Amish have liberalized a little over the years. It''s the Ohio Amish who think they''ve gone all Reform and took off to Holmes County. They''re totally hardcore about no electricity, machines, phones, etc., although one of the kids on Rumspringa painted a pair of boobs on a church.
The hot kid with the nice nipples in the "The Ex-Amish Mentor" clip seemed like he would be up for a gay experience or two.%0D\
Mose was kind of cute in a quirky, bookish way on "Amish In The City", but all that construction work has aged him terribly.
r20 is it that amos Miller? i agree, he''s hot.
Yes. Amos Miller looks like he''s ready for some undergrad mansex.
I didn''t even need to see Mose''s face - I totally recognized his voice.
Had sex with an Amish guy once. Except for using apple butter for lube, he seemed pretty normal.
Not quite right, r4. Amish aren''t baptized until they''re adults (AFTER rumspringa). You''re not considered a member of the Church until you''re baptized. If you leave the community before you''ve been baptized they don''t cut off contact, and you can always come back. It''s only the ones that leave after they''ve been baptized that are completely shunned - no contact, (former) family and friends can''t even speak their name. It''s not like they had died, it''s like they''d never even existed.\
At least, that''s the rule. How strictly it''s followed is anyone''s guess.
R29 - you funny man!
Pssst (they stink)
Thanks, R30. There''s nothing like a so-called community that refuses to speak to or speak about you after you''re said "No way." I guess they maintain their "purity" but it does put the lie to any claims that they are a community.
Pssstt .. 32^^ --- BO stink?
R34 YES--BO They don''t shower. But they are cute as a button until they marry and grow the beard. But that''s un 18 years old, so unless you''re a pedo--no go.
I have a good friend who is Amish. Well, ex-Amish. I think most of his family is ex-Amish. He''s gay and they are all cool about it. \
He''s a nice looking guy. We''ve never been more than friends.
Two words: Jonathan Groff
In PA the Mennonites and Amish sometimes used the terms "English" or "gay" to mean "fancy" in a disapproving but slightly tempted sense.
There used to be an XTube link to a cute blond Amish kid who was goaded into having sex with a guy. He was either for real, or a good actor...he seemed very awkward and weird, but ultimately enjoyed the blow job.
One of those sites like Sean Cody, had an Amish guy from Pennsylvania doing gay porn in order to get money to save his family''s farm. He appeared in more than one video. Google it. I actually felt bad for him.
Broke straight boys had a number of Amish.
Gay amish? What gay is amishing?
That Amish boy doing gay porn to save the family farm seemed so different from the other boys, in terms of his gentleness and naive quality. It was so sad to see that defenseless boy used like that.
No thanks, that actually sounds really depressing.
Yeah, because there''s such a huge difference between 17 and 18, R35.
The Eyes, They Roll
r40, "The English" is what the Amish call anyone who isn''t Amish. It''s descriptive, not negative.
Son of Ex-Amish
Hey cross eyed R47 there is a huge difference between 18 and what they look like after they get married. Obviously you know nothing about the Amish.
R47 = "The English"
I thought the Amish boy did the film while on rumspringa; I didn''t think it had anyting to do with the farm. Of course being on a site called Broke Straight Boys, he might not have been Amish at all, or had the story made up to fit in with the Broke idea.
I this the story is fake, just like most of the stuff on those gay-for-pay sites. This guy also showed up in another vid with 3 other guys.\
I LOVED "Amish in the City," especially Jonas. He also appeared on an episode of MTV''s True Life: "I''m Ex-Amish." Love to find that.
r20 - your link is a major goose chase.%0D\
Couldn''t find "Ex-Amish Mentor" at all.
I call fake on the video. The Amish do not grow beards until after they are married. There is virtually no way that a married Amish guy would do such a video. The Amish may not be connected to the internet, but the Mennonites are; and, the Mennonites are kinda like the Stasi for the Amish.
I read an article a while back about sexual abuse and incest within the Amish community and how the people who commit crimes are dealt with within the community. Frequently the only consequence is being "shunned" for a brief period of time - meaning that they simply cannot attend church for 6 or 8 weeks. It made it sound like it''s a real problem. %0D\
Ah. Here''s the article.
From what I can tell the older of the two brothers mentioned in the previous article received no jail time beyond what he had already served. He got a 6 year suspended sentence and 4 years of probation. %0D\
The judge said that it was due to the closeness and support of the Amish community. %0D\
Pretty bizarre considering the severity of his crimes. %0D\
The younger brother has not been sentenced because he''s recovering after being kicked by a horse - can''t really blame the horse after all.
Oh come now ... in gay porn? Well you know THAT story-line was true!
Ms. Get Real
[quote]came back with a beard (meaning he was now married)\
You can have a beard without getting married, you know.
Oh, where to start...
[quote]You can have a beard without getting married, you know.\
I can''t tell if this is a joke or a pun on "beard" or what.
Wow, I thought I was the only one who remembered Amish in the City. Loved that show. I had such a crush on Jonas.
I was Amish in Kansas and knew nothing of being gay. We messed with friends growing up. I didn''t understand what that was until I was out with English friends and liked the guys better than girls and told them and they said I was gay. 10 years ago when I was 19 I had to leave the church because I was not able to stop being with guys. There are more than people know about. at least in Kansas..
Here''s an interesting "Where are they now" site about all the kids from "Amish in the City".\
I don''t remember some of these people. Are the people on the right from a 2nd Amish show that I missed?
In National Geographic episode on Amish Marriage, Mose from "Amish in The City" counseled the couple who wanted the Amish/English wedding. He''s sure put on the pounds.
R64, the people on the right are the city people.
I have a friend who used to go to high school with a bunch of Amish kids. Said they were ostracized from the "normal kids" - were shunned, other kids wouldn''t sit with them, they were made fun of. Considered the lowest on the totem pole. Kinda sad.
Shouldn''t they be called "Gamish"?
Yeah, I''m an English.
It''s inevitable to fuck an Amish buck if you live in Philly
or maybe "Gaymish"
Yeah, I''m an English.
We get a few down here in DC too. A friend of mine dated one for a while, until the guy decided to return back to PA.
Which sect of Amish build churches? I thought the Bishop conducts Sunday services, rotating amongst home of congregants.
Who was the Amish guy on SC? I googled it and nothing came back.
Not saying I have, or haven''t. But apple butter lube is to die for.
This Amish guy is cute, too bad he likes little girls.
R55 I''m with you. First, the story that he did this to help save the family farm is total BS. For one thing, if an Amish family is in danger of losing their farm, then the rest of the community would help them so they dont have to resort to getting help from outsiders. Second, seeing how the Amish dont use commercial banks and own their property free and clear for generations, how they could be in a position to lose it seems really hard to believe. And also, those glasses he wore were just a little too trendy for a people that consider zippers to be evil. That being said he it a total cutey and I would love to fuck him til the cows come home.
No one knows or has heard of a really gay Amish? There's at least one gay in every village!
It's like sex with clean Hassidim.
Okay, my familiarity with the Amish is limited ot a few visits with Lancaster County Amish, and I have no inside information, but I don't need any to make a very obviously true statement: homosexuality appears in all human populations, but it is not alway expressed (see also: The Closet).
There is also good scientific evidence that the incidence of male homosexuality increases with the number of older brothers a male's mother has born, i.e., a boy whose mother has had five sons before him is more likely to be gay than a boy who is a mother's first-born son.
The average size of Amish families, with 6-10 children per couple, is significantly larger than that of the general white US population.
Therefore, it stands to reason that the incidence of homosexuality is higher in the Amish population than in the general US population, but due to intense social pressure, most gay Amish men probably never act on their impulses.
OTOH, since they have very little genetic drift because they're so insular, they have a very high incidence of genetic disease, including a few that aren't found in any other population.
That sort of puts a damper on anyone's fantasies about Jedediah and Enoch getting a little frisky after the barn-raisin'.
The Voice of the Night
I just downloaded a 6 part documentary(Uknova)called Living With Amish and the male host really pings.
That's the Founder Effect at work, VOTN.
I don't know whether your "OTOH" was aimed at my comment, but I don't think it affects the incidence of male homosexuality, because apparently the mechanism that increases the likelihood of homosexuality of later sons involves higher levels of androgens/ testosterone in the uteri of mothers who have already had numerous sons. That's unlikely to vary much in any population.
"A few of the ones who had just left the communities were scrawny and plain, but some were downright consumable."
What a contemptible creature you are. Shame on you.
Thanks for the insight,r79. I wish someone would do a comprehensive study about where homosexuality is found in places one wouldn't think of. But as you said,getting someone to talk on record and freely about it could be very hard to do.
You might try Sex at Dawn, R85, although I don't know that I specifically remember anything about homosexuality.
The Voice of the Night
I am presently watching a program about ex-Amish on natgeotv.com. Trust me, these young men are extremely hot and sexy. It's amazing how handsome they are when clean shaven and in civilian clothing.
I'm watching too. I wonder about gay amish too.
This topic title is so Datalounge.
Well, I went off in search of hot Amish guys this weekend and I'm here to tell you they are out there. Somewhere. Except I didn't see any. Perhaps they were working in the fields. I enjoyed the family style dining -- the best fried chicken I ever had -- and I played miniature golf in back of 2 amish couples last night. The women were wearing those white sheer caplets over their hair and long dresses. The boys wore straw hats and suspenders with white shirts and black pants. They had their carriage parked by the cars, the horse lazily waiting for its owner. They work really hard. They use no mechanical tools to do backbreaking work. No wonder those boys on TV look so hot!
I can say for certain there are gay and lesbian Amish. before I left the Amish Faith and become what they call the English there were many of us who were gay. The problem was that if people found out we were shunned.
The Rumspringa occurs when they are too young. There are no "english" living on their own at that time of life so the Amish kids are thrown into an adult world they are unprepared for.
Yep, the only thing familiar about Mose Gingerich these days is his Dutchy accent.
The Amish have a genetic problem and more and more of them are being born with birth defects due to their declining gene pool. Lantern jaws and deformed foreheads are the most common defects, but many others are showing up at an alarming rate. The intermarriage of family members is their biggest problem.
r73, please 'splain, what's SC?
I preferred the beautiful blonde 1 named Cephas..... Hardworking honest determined and beautiful
I went on a tour of the PA Dutch Country a few years back with some members of my church group. During the tour of the pretzel company, I got separated from my group. Lost, confused, and a little tipsy from the vodka in my flask, I asked a young Amish man, I dunno, about 6'2", 220 pounds, redhead, if he could tell me where my group was. He pointed towards a dark hallway and told me I could meet back with them there. As I walked into the darkness, I...I...Oh, God, I felt a hand around my throat and I was thrown to the floor. It was dark, but I could see the outline of his face, his beard smelling of tobacco and scrapple. He forced his hand over my mouth and...and...
I CAN'T GO ON...
Oh, DO go on.
SC is Sean Cody and I don't know how you could have trouble finding Amish guys in pron since they are all over the google.
Try "Avery" and "Amish" and "Gay porn"
Just be forewarned, if a Amish lad offers to churn your butter, you're going to remember it forever. The smile on your face will last just bit longer.
The Amish basically do not allow new members and so how can they all not be distantly related to one another because of that?
I am not a weird ass troll or anything by any means. But, what R95 wrote actually does make a lot of sense.
I am a Quaker bashing the Amish on datalounge. LOL
[quote]Oh, DO go on.
All I c-c-can remember are his hairy arms pinning me down, his beard burned my flesh as it roughly scraped across my neck and chest. I work out and am in pretty good shape, but I was no match for his brute strength...I f-f-elt my strength wane as he ripped open my Gap T-shirt, and roughly yanked my jeans down towards my ankles. He grunted with lust and agression as he stripped me down in that darkened restroom, squeezing my thighs and buttocks like they were tenderloins being readied for the Farmers' Market...before taking off his shirt and dropping his overalls to his ankles, I watched him spit in his hand; I knew what his intentions were, and I was helpless to resist. "Ja, you take mein sausage now!" he chuckled as he climbed on top of me, taking my knees and putting them over his shoulders. And t-t-t-then it-it happened...h-h-he RAPED me!!
Special Victim, Amish Style
R95, I grew up in a small town in Illinois that had a nearby German farming community with a major intermarriage problem. Geneticists studied the farming community extensively because there was a very large number of multiple births, albinism and all sorts of birth defects.
My family now lives in Ohio and has Amish neighbors. For being English, my family has a good reputation among the Amish and we have always been invited to Amish celebrations. We've seen the same sorts of birth defects in that community that we saw in the German farming community, although without the high incidence of multiple births.
I just watched the show "Out of Order" for the first time. Yes, I am ex-Amish. And yes, I am a gay man. I left the Amish 40 years ago.
I will always be shunned by the Amish and still feel shunned by the "English" world.
At least I'm not living the lie a few are.
Amish kid did gay porn two years ago. It was pretty sad. He needed the money.
I tricked a few times with a gay Amish guy from NYU. He was pretty hot, actually. Though I got the sense he was kinda fucked up like gay Mormons.
DEG you should contact Mose 's group. He seems like a good guy and has carved quite a niche career for himself.
ROFL R103. So sick and so funny at the same time. God forgive me for laughing.
I grew up Amish, I left 12 years ago. I'm very happy where I'm at, lots of wonderful friends and an amazing husband, but it's still really hard not having a true relationship with my family. My parents do still communicate with me, but it's very strained. They want to know nothing of my life and refuse to meet my husband. I'm attempting to start an online home for lgbt amish and former amish. A place to find support and a place to vent. Being gay and amish is s very lonely experience and it's nice to know that others have walked in your shoes. We have a twitter handle already! @lgbtiamish Come check us out, share your stories.
Cephas is a little cutie.
They acutally left the Amish community because there are no mirrors allowed.
So, yes, in answer to your question, they do suck cock and like to get butt-fucked bigtime.
I've met some former Amish. They all have bad teeth and horrible breath.
Good hygiene is not their friend :(
I don't know about that R113. I've watched that show. Sure some of 'em are fucked up and there was even a big Amish meth ring at one time. But the guys I saw were mostly hawt! It's sad to be shunned and a lot of Amish are saddened by the isolation. They're stuck between two worlds. Between Intercourse and Coitus Interruptus.
Does it go without saying that Amish boys are all uncut?
Nice try but amish do not go to school beyond the 8th grade which they do on Amish turf, They might have been old order Mennonite but they definitely were not true Amish
There are no gay Amish. You aren't born gay, it's a developemtal flaw. It's like saying you were born a lawyer or car salesman. The Amish view homosexuality for what it is. Sodamy, and due to that, there are no gay Amish.
I think I find some of the guys sexy because of their body language: shy, humble and unpretentious. Courteous. And a Farmer's Tan: dark or red to the shirt sleeves but snow white everywhere else '_'
Nothing is more of a turnoff than some narcissistic label queen with a gym body and fake tan, flouncing in 99-cent flip flops, sneering at everyone who dares look at him (unless you're HAWT!).
[quote] Sodamy, and due to that, there are no gay Amish.
Ironic that the previous sentence mentioned "a developmental flaw".
It's mine, it's soda...it's SODAMY!
The new refreshing drink from Pepsico.
I have no interest in sodamy or sodomy for that matter, R117. Does that mean cumming all over each other and in each others mouths makes me and my partner a non developmental flaw, or will we still burn in a hell with no Jesus and no potatoes?
The gay community is very invested in there being a physical/genetic componant to homosexuality due to some early court rulings denying anti-discrimation rights because the court said it was a preferance versus something like skin color that the discriminated party has no controll over. Hopefully we will move past that legalistic philosophical stance and be able to objectively view situations.
"There is also good scientific evidence that the incidence of male homosexuality increases with the number of older brothers a male's mother has born, i.e., a boy whose mother has had five sons before him is more likely to be gay than a boy who is a mother's first-born son."
Yes there is evidence that incidence increases with the number of brothers, that is the fact. One theory is higher levels of androgens/ testosterone in the uteri of mothers who have already had numerous sons, but that is only theory.
An equally valid case can be made for environment. Environmental causes would be, as anyone who has 6 or more older brothers knows, at least one of the older brothers is going to attempt to have sex with the younger brothers... Brother #2 only has the first born asking him to suck his dick, brother #3 has the first born and brother #2 wanting to get off, but brother #7 has up to 6 horny teenage older brothers asking for some head or to let them fuck him in his ass... the poor youngest can't wait for some of them to go away to college or the military because he is sore and needs the rest. And a higher proportion of these younger ones will continue gay activities into adulthood.
I knew a community of "shunned" and out-of-family Amish, through a friend whose father had a stable. They all had horses. They hung around each other even though they were out of the Amish life. Occasionally one would go back, which was permitted with the right penance and attitude. They all would talk about the hypocrisy, the hidden electricity, the meanness, the patriarchal cruelty, the coldness, the backwardness. It was men and women, and a few families.
Two of the guys were closeted. Everyone knew I was gay - I'm out. I had sex with them, individually, out of curiosity and sympathy (and with one major attraction). Anyway, the younger guy (he was 22) was vague and uncertain, which meant he wanted to get fucked but didn't want to say it. Okay, but he cried after he came. When he came on to me a second time I told him I just wanted a blow job, and he gave me one. I guess he wanted to be used. No repeats.
The older one (34), a big man with lots of body hair, had other ideas, a big uncut cock (pale as the moon), and he would come twice without pulling out. No talking, but a lot of kissing, except he would only do it doggy style, so my neck hurt. He had a girlfriend and a kid - acted like nothing happened in between. He'd just grin. They moved away after about six months.
I just happened upon this page and read the anonymous post about Amish being raised in a way that keeps them from being gay. Holy crap I hope that person is joking and that there aren't people truly that ignorant left in the world!
ive had sex with a menonite Boy they have huge cocks!! :D sure made me happy
I am watching Amish: Out of Order on Nat. Geo right now. It is the episode about Cephus going to work at the oil rig. He is one hot boy!
They are gay amish they been around since the world started
Ive had sex with a amish Boy one time!! ;)
I tricked a few times with an Amish guy who was in NYC for grad school. Very nice, and good in bed. Reminded me of Mormons, that way (all of whom I've known have been great in bed).
All that pent-up repression= explosive sex and someone who will keep coming back for more to a "quiet outlet".
R115. Yes, Amish males are perfectly intact.
r110, do you know about the Der Reggebogen Friendschaft gay organization?
I have been with gay men that where Amish he was GREAT very easy going marken love was so hot with him
R122 - what court cases are you talking about? Are you claiming there was a court case in state that included sexual orientation as a protected class and the court did not uphold the law based upon the idea sexual orientation is a choice?
Whether or not something is a choice is not a legal reason to deny someone their civil rights.
Religion would be the key example here.
Yes,I am in an English/Amish relationship with a young Amish boy. I know of several others in the same community who "mess around" with other boys. They tell others but I do not know how long they will keep it a secret. I do not want to get any of them in trouble but they do not use condoms nor are they very discreet. I only wish the boy I am with would pull back the extra skin and keep his foreskin cleaned, it smells horrible. Teaching him how to kiss is a challenge and he is so interested in staring at and playing with my penis that he can hardly participate in anything else. There you go some honest truth
I can't believe if the Amish follow the Bible very closely that they wouldn't circumcise their boys.
Very few are actually circumcised I have checked bunches of them out at the swim hole. They swim in tighty whiteys and of course they are see through when wet, then we are butt naked when changing into our clothing along the bank. The Amish men and boys are quick to take several looks at my English penis, so far none of them have sized up to mine. I have only seen uncircumcised boys and men, they young one I am with said other boys told him they have been cut because they unlike him were born in a hospital.
id love to be with a gay young amish guy sounds like it would be cool to be with one.
I have an Amish neighbor. 28 or so, would love to get in his pants...don't know how their briefs are made as you never see any outline of their penis. he has four kids and I'd like to see what made them.
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Possibly we've not slain all the dragons and there will be issues that come up during the switchover. There's a help button in the lower right hand corner of the page which you can use to send us bug reports.
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Please note that complaints about colors, fonts, icons and the like are not "bugs" - they are design choices that we've made and we expect one or two cases of world-class bitching. But they won't actually cause headaches, scurvy, heart attacks, Restless Leg Syndrome, Morgellon's Disease or the vapors (but have your smelling salts at hand just in case).
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