Sylvia Plath

Blazing genius or overrated drama queen? \ \ Also, who''s better: Anne Sexton or Sylvia?

Lady Lazarus
• Please, Sylvia Plath isn''t even on the same planet as Anne Sexton. And Sexton isn''t even that good.

  Ted Hughes

• I kind of find her work overrated.

• Some of Plath''s poems are amazing, e.g., "In Plaster."

• The contemporary American academy considers Plath one of the major American poets of the twentieth century. Along with John Ashbery, Robert Lowell, Frank O''Hara, and Charles Olson (among others), she is considered one of the most important post-WWII American poets. The more autobiographical poems (e.g. "Daddy," "Medusa," "Lady Lazarus") are not considered to be as good as some of the more difficult poems (e.g. "Rabbit Catcher," "Blackberrying," "Elm Tree," "Tulips," "In Plaster") that do not buy as much into the sensationalized Plath/Hughes biographical mythos.\ \ Anne Sexton is not considered by poetry scholars to be as canonical, although she remains very popular. She is assigned less frequently in college courses than Plath is.

  English professor at a well-known liberal arts college

• What''s your personal opinion, R4?\ \ I adore Plath but am very fond of Sexton.

• They''re both good poets and worth reading, but Plath had a more unusual mind. The poems she wrote in the last year of her life are more powerful than anything her contemporaries were writing at that time--and she had some heavy-hitting contemporaries, like Adrienne Rich, W.S. Merwin, etc.

• I adore Sexton, not into Olson or Merwin, and Plath had a few good gems but not overall ("Daddy was a Nazi") for instance, that speak to me....\ \ But Sexton raped her daughter continuously, so it''s hard for me to read her.

  not an expert, not a prof, just a reader

• I like both poets very much, though Sexton after LIVE OR DIE began to write in a very undisciplined style most of my fellow academics dislike (but for which I have always harbored a fondness).\ \ I do think Plath was the greater talent overall, though. It''s hard to think of many poetry books after WWII as consistently excellent as ARIEL.

  r4

• My mistake: it''s "Elm," not "Elm Tree."

  r4

• Plath wins.

• Sexton wins. Plath needed to play at suicide to get her writing juices flowing, but screwed up and made the last attempt real.

• Suicide Blonde

  Inxs

• Plath was the better poet. But she *was* a drama queen, and her suicide undoubtedly enhanced her reputation. She is a bit over-rated IMO.

• Sexton is an awful poet. Her work is unreadable.\ \ Plath is a great poet.\ \ I don''t think we can judge their work on the basis of their private actions in their real lives.

• R14 = the "STOP DL WOMEN HATE" troll who''s been posting all the psycho spam the last week.\ \ F&F her.

• R15 appears to be more than a little paranoid.

• I can''t stand Plath.

• Ted Hughes is a real poet.

• Big bush supporter.

• Of course the jew cunt will get all of the attention.

• Ted Hughes was the true genius, and really brought out the best in Plath - artistically, at least.

• I am going through my Plath phase, so it is nice seeing this thread. I have only read The Bell Jar and I am currently reading her biography, and then I plan to read her poetry and journals. I am going through some difficult time personally, so I find Plath's companionship comforting. I am relate to her work.

• r20, neither Sylvia Plath nor Anne Sexton was Jewish.

• It was difficult to portray someone living in such common surroundings, but I gave it my best. What a tragic person she was, poor and with no sense of style. Namaste,

  goop

• Anne Sexton. Her history is way more interesting plus she made music of a beatnik nature...

• I have to admit, I have only read Plath's Bell Jar. I found it lacking. My knee-jerk response was to say Sexton but I need to read some Plath poetry before I answer.

• I wouldn't call her a genius, but Plath did create some enduring poetry. So did Sexton. I don't think you can compare them. They were very different, although both of them were very disturbed, mentally ill women.

• Love Sylvia's dry wit.

• She was a hot fucking mess.

  Anne Sexton

• sylvia plath & anne sexton | the art & the artists of self destruction no. 1

  http%3A//poetrydispatch.wordpress.com/2009/05/06/sylvia-plath-anne-sexton-the-art-the-artists-of-self-destruction-no-1/

• That is what I like about Plath, r28.

• Sexton is an awful poet. Turgid, obvious, and dull. Plath is a great poet. Sexton is no way in Plath's category, and it's offensive to Plath to suggest that she belongs in some sub-group with Sexton.

• r15, you're way wrong. r14 is not the "stop-hating women" guy. I'm the stop-hating-women guy, and I'm r32. And Sexton is a wretchedly bad poet, and it's too bad for Plath that they both killed themselves and they were about the same age and they both have ties to Massachusetts and Robert Lowell, because it is only the circumstances of their lives that are similar. Their poetry is NOTHING alike, and comparing them is like comparing Billie Holiday to Sandra Dee. Entirely. Different. Categories.

• Sylvia Plath will be relevant one hundred years from now, she's that good. Hughes will be a footnote to her Bio. I especially like her dark humor and her depth and honesty. The anti-Semite be damned!

• I've read several biographies of Plath; my impression is that she was an incredibly difficult, extremely tiresome person. But some of the poems--"Tulips" and "In Plaster"--are of the highest order.

• Only women can truly appreciate Plath. I love her.

• I liked the Bell Jar. Other than that, none of these 'great American poets' really rank as important except in the minds of incestuous academia.

• "I've read several biographies of Plath; my impression is that she was an incredibly difficult, extremely tiresome person." Yes, she was. I always wondered why Ted Hughes married her. Supposedly he was a chick magnet, and could have had just about any woman he wanted. Why did he marry the rather plain, unpleasant Plath? Was it her poetry he fell in love with, not her?

• R33 has the best answer. Although they were both disturbed drama queens and emotional hot messes - that is their only real similarity. R26, if you have only read The Bell Jar, then you have not "read" Sylvia Plath. Go now and read her Ariel poems.

• If R32/R33 were to be the actual "SAYING CUNT = TEEN GAY MURDER = DEATH OF ALL LIFE ON EARTH = DESTRUCTION OF THE COSMOS" troll, wouldn't it be nice if he emulated Plath, pulled his head out of his ass, and stuck it into an oven? BUT in this one case he's completely right about Sexton being no poet equal to the title. She's inept, crude, clueless of craft and potty headed. Her only value is that of being a precursor of the cunts (kisses, darling) infesting the academy nowadays. Plath is not a "great poet." She did some good work. But as R32/R33 says, these two dead white women are not comparable as artists.

• I don't know. I think that much of Ariel is ingenious, but Sexton wrote some wonderful and enduring poems ("The Starry Night," "The Truth the Dead Know," "Her Kind"). These may not be as great as Plath's latest work, but to call Sexton a bad poet is absurd. I don't get Hughes at all. Sexton and Plath were both in George Starbuck's poetry class.

• “And when at last you find someone to whom you feel you can pour out your soul, you stop in shock at the words you utter— they are so rusty, so ugly, so meaningless and feeble from being kept in the small cramped dark inside you so long.” ― Sylvia Plath, The Unabridged Journals of Sylvia Plath

• “Life has been some combination of fairy-tale coincidence and joie de vivre and shocks of beauty together with some hurtful self-questioning.” ― Sylvia Plath, The Unabridged Journals of Sylvia Plath

• “I do not love; I do not love anybody except myself. That is a rather shocking thing to admit. I have none of the selfless love of my mother. I have none of the plodding, practical love. . . . . I am, to be blunt and concise, in love only with myself, my puny being with its small inadequate breasts and meager, thin talents. I am capable of affection for those who reflect my own world.” ― Sylvia Plath, The Journals of Sylvia Plath

• I must be one of the odd few that finds poetry unbelievably dull.

• “I smile, now, thinking: we all like to think we are important enough to need psychiatrists” ― Sylvia Plath, The Unabridged Journals of Sylvia Plath

  Lol%20go%20girl

• “I am jealous of those who think more deeply, who write better, who draw better, who ski better, who look better, who live better, who love better than I.” ― Sylvia Plath, The Unabridged Journals of Sylvia Plath

• “I had been alone more than I could have been had I gone by myself.” ― Sylvia Plath, The Unabridged Journals of Sylvia Plath

• “The future is what matters — because one never reaches it, but always stays in the present — like the White Queen who had to run like the wind to remain in the same spot.” ― Sylvia Plath, The Unabridged Journals of Sylvia Plath

• Yes, I was infatuated with you: I am still. No one has ever heightened such a keen capacity of physical sensation in me. I cut you out because I couldn't stand being a passing fancy. Before I give my body, I must give my thoughts, my mind, my dreams. And you weren't having any of those.” ― Sylvia Plath, The Unabridged Journals of Sylvia Plath

• And so the snow slows and swirls, and melts along the edges. The first snow isn't good for much. It makes a few people write poetry, a few wonder if the Christmas shopping is done, a few make reservations at the skiing lodge. It's a sentimental prelude to the real thing. It's picturesque & quaint.” ― Sylvia Plath, The Unabridged Journals of Sylvia Plath

  Thank%20You%20Sylvia

• There is hope. There is hope everywhere. Today God gives milk and I have the pail. -- Anne Sexton

• Did it help that they were both bipolar nuts?

• "The Bell Jar" is a great read. Although Plath's autobiographical poems have become a tad cliche (through no fault of her own), they still resonate with contemporary readers. Sexton - not so much.

  Esther Greenwood

• Sexton said of Plath's suicide, "That was my death!" Methinks she resented Plath for that. Even in death, Plath overshadowed her.

• R53... “But writing poems and letters doesn't seem to do much good.” ― Sylvia Plath, The Unabridged Journals of Sylvia Plath

• “So much working, reading, thinking, living to do. A lifetime is not long enough. Nor youth to old age long enough. Immortality and permanence be damned. Sure I want them, but they are nonexistent, and won't matter when I rot underground. All I want to say is: I made the best of a mediocre job. It was a good fight while it lasted. And so life goes.” ― Sylvia Plath, The Unabridged Journals of Sylvia Plath

• Team Sexton here. THE FURY OF COCKS. There they are drooping over the breakfast plates, angel-like, folding in their sad wing, animal sad, and only the night before there they were playing the banjo. Once more the day's light comes with its immense sun, its mother trucks, its engines of amputation. Whereas last night the cock knew its way home, as stiff as a hammer, battering in with all its awful power. That theater. Today it is tender, a small bird, as soft as a baby's hand. She is the house. He is the steeple. When they fuck they are God. When they break away they are God. When they snore they are God. In the morning they butter the toast. They don't say much. They are still God. All the cocks of the world are God, blooming, blooming, blooming into the sweet blood of woman.

• More optimistic: Sylvia Plath or Joan Didion?

• Hmm okk R58.... “…beating time along the edge of thought.” ― Sylvia Plath, The Unabridged Journals of Sylvia Plath

• I like Plath. Hearing recordings of Plath read her own works, with her cold, flinty voice should make anyone with an equivocal opinion of her come down soundly in one camp or another. Scroll down a bit at link for a BBC recording of 1962, Plath reading "Daddy":

  http%3A//www.poets.net/2008/08/poetry-reading-daddy-sylvia-plath-1932.html

• Whoa R61, I loved that video. Thanks for sending it. I found it gripping and omg sexy!

  Sylvia%20Plath%20rings%20my%20bell

• R61, what's with the faux British accent? She was American, and in the 7 years she was married to Hughes, they moved back and froth between the US and UK.

• R63 I think it was the same affection adopted by Goopy and Madonna.

• Guys, let's be honest. Gwyneth was excellent as Sylvia Plath. Personally i liked her a lot in 'Sylvia'. What do you think?

• I thought Gwennie was awful.

• [quote]Personally i liked her a lot in 'Sylvia'. What do you think? It didn't even play in my town -- I don't know many who've seen it.

• To each their own my loves!

  Bebe

• Evening bump

• The Bell Jar was one of the first confessionals of depression and suicide. Her suicide made her even more famous. I don't think she was that great of a writer - but then, I wasn't of the time when she became popular.

• In my day, junior high girls read "Go Ask Alice" and then graduated to "The Bell Jar" in high school.

• R43 - R51 and on... that was beautiful.

• Someone wrote this about her being a narcissistic mother. Sound familiar?

  http%3A//psychcentral.com/lib/2010/narcissistic-mothers/

• Ted Hughes didn't have Sylvia's creativity, originality and daring. He was the same old leather elbow patches. If he hadn't been her husband, he wouldn't be read nearly so much these days.

• Both are dreadful. Woody Allen was right about Plath: if only she had put her poetry in the oven rather than her head. Haha. Feminists adore both since each is a victim. Of course the irony here is that feminists are supposed to resent victimization--but like the gay community, there is a tendency for the feminist critics to worship at the altar of the victim since a political ideology is served by the death. Do not waste time on either. They count for little in post-modern poetry. The great, great post-modern poet is Elizabeth Bishop. Magnificent, and ignored since she does not conform to the lurid agenda of those who like the third rate tripe of Plath and Sexton.

  ranger

• oh ranger.

• Doris Lessing is more my speed.

  Sorry%20Sylvia

• “I wonder why I don't go to bed and go to sleep. But then it would be tomorrow, so I decide that no matter how tired, no matter how incoherent I am, I can skip on hour more of sleep and live.” ― Sylvia Plath

• For r75: Sonnet I am in need of music that would flow Over my fretful, feeling finger-tips, Over my bitter-tainted, trembling lips, With melody, deep, clear, and liquid-slow. Oh, for the healing swaying, old and low, Of some song sung to rest the tired dead, A song to fall like water on my head, And over quivering limbs, dream flushed to glow! There is a magic made by melody: A spell of rest, and quiet breath, and cool Heart, that sinks through fading colors deep To the subaqueous stillness of the sea, And floats forever in a moon-green pool, Held in the arms of rhythm and of sleep. Elizabeth Bishop

• “The floor seemed wonderfully solid. It was comforting to know I had fallen and could fall no farther.” ― Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar

  http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D-KNS-v2iuAA

  Around%20me

• Of the post-War generation, I'd say Bishop, Brooks, and Rich were the best American women writing (Marianne Moore is also amazing, but slightly earlier, especially her best work). Both Sexton and Plath wrote some wonderful poems, but there is much that is precious overall in Plath and much that is too tossed-off in Sexton. No one has topped Bishop's "One Art."

• I don't think I would take seriously the opinions of anyone who calls himself "ranger."