Marlene Dietrich;

Is there anyone more divine ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXvyhqE_a38&feature=player_embedded#!

No.
Greta Garbo
She was obsessed with David Naughton during the final days of her life. I could never understand that, yes he was handsome, but not that handsoe.
The documentary Marlene is fucking hilarious.
I was lucky enough to see La Dietrich in person many years ago. Back in the 70''s the W Midtown Hotel in Atlanta was the Atlanta branch of The Fairmont Hotel. All the big cabaret stars of the period came through to play The Venetian Room. The hotel is attached to the condo building where I still live, and when I heard Dietrich was going to be appearing I snapped up tickets immediately. She didn''t disappoint. Even in her mid 70''s she was divine and still breathtakingly beautiful! The funniest thing about her show was that she spent 10 minutes raving about the fried chicken (she was apparently a southern fried chicken fanatic) at Mary Mac''s Tea Room.
Interesting you said Dietrich was divine R4. According to her daughter, Maria Riva, Dietrich was a drunken mess in her 70s concerts. In Riva''s book she goes into detail about one drunken concert after another during this time.
Dietrich is the perfect example of someone famous who had no talent.
Gilda Radner as Baba Wawa: Marwena, how do you stay so swim?%0D\ %0D\ Madeline Kahn as Marwena: I swim to stay so swim.
R6, hush your mouth! R4, I''m jealous, would have loved to see her at any point in her career!
FormerlyDinah
She had a drunken confrontation with Charles Pierce, which left him needing 12 stitches, she was a mean drunk.
Is that in Riva''s book? I don''t remember reading that....details?
FormerlyDinah
R5, she basically stayed in one spot on the stage the entire show. She either stood or sat on a stool. It wasn''t that she displayed such magnificent talent, because it was obvious she was very old and face it, her vocal range had never been very extensive. And although her makeup was heavily applied, on stage underneath all those pink lights it looked flawless. It was just that you realized you were sitting there watching THE Dietrich. A once in a lifetime opportunity. She could have hiked her gown and taken a dump right there on the stage and she still would have been divine.
R4
R5 again. According to Riva, Dietrich was falling-down drunk on and off-stage. Staggering slurring, etc. and abusive to everyone. I don't doubt this happened, because Dietrich most definitely was an alcoholic according to numerous sources, but the drunken abusiveness at concert appearances probably were isolated occurences. If Dietrich was as bad as Riva claimed she was for EVERY performance, then how did she keep getting booked into prestigious concert halls year after year? Why were her concerts almost always sold out and got great reviews from the critics? I think Riva was exaggerating. I've posted about the Riva bio of her mother on other threads about Dietrich, and I highly recommend it, even though I think she may have taken some liberties with actual events here and there. In spite of this, it is an amazing read and you end up really admiring and respecting Marlene, despite her faults. %0D %0D And as for R6 saying Dietrich had no talent, you art competely full of shit. All you have to do is watch The Blue Angel or Destry Rides Again. I can only wish we had some contemporary actresses who were as "untalented" as Dietrich was.%0D %0D Again, go read Maria Riva's bio. It's amazing.
I can only assume that like many live stage performers she had her good days and bad days. Maybe all that friend chicken she was raving about while she was in Atlanta perked her up a bit!
R4
r2, I kind of understand.
Dr. Pepper
Bobby Trendy!
Singing "Awake in a Dream" to the unbelievably good-looking Gary Cooper.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9rJAMa6YRo
Garbo is infinitely more fascinating. Garbo was Elizabeth Taylor to Dietrich''s Joan Collins.\ \ Louise Brooks said that had Dietrich played her iconic role in Pandora''s Box she would have turned it into a burlesque and "with just one look, she would have given the entire scene away."
How can one deny the consummate artistry in the clip at the top of this page?
http://home.snafu.de/fright.night/marlene-dietrich-intro.html
DIVINE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGQgFhvYwOA&feature=related
She also liked to take a dip on the lady pond. Mae West, who had a dressing room near her at Paramount,once said "She wanted to wash my hair--and I''m not talking about the hair on my head!"
Did Mar only have the one Bob Mackie dress?
Screen test for Blue Angel. Apparently the piano player was told to fuck it up on purpose.%0D\ %0D\ Love the German song ("wer wird denn weinen, wenn wir auseinander gehen") at the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbaRRDgTIkc
Dietrich may have been drunk on some at some of her appearances in the 70''s but I think R19''s post obviously shows that she still was fabulous, drunk or not.
Um r19 the drunken old hag was TALKING the song the entire time. How is THAT different from some of the rappers you all consider have no talent? At least the rappers have more energy than this old hag you call DIVINE.\ \ This makes me realize that usually these figures of old become more iconic than anything and their positives are weighted more than their negatives and they are praised as being such "great talents" that the stars of today don''t have. I think Angelina will deemed as an Audrey Hepburn, a great actress of her generation one day and Jennifer Aniston will be known as a DInah Shore, a glamourous beauty. Of course George Clooney will be the great Clark Gable of our generation and Brad Pitt will be the great Paul Newman type!
Whatever.
My favorite Dietrich performance is the "Hot Voodoo" number from Blonde Venus. Good lord, this could never be made today!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyVrH1OfVjw
Yes.
http://cmgworldwide.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/04eartha_kitt.jpg
R24, you''re trying WAY too hard toots. You need to calm down and back away because you''ve clearly got WAY too much invested in your abnormal and frankly strange hatred of Marlene Dietrich.\ \ What, did she spit on you once or refuse to give you an autograph?
R27 you''re a tired old KA-WEEN... NEXT!
I thought she was wonderful early in her career, but she quickly became a caricature of "glamor" and did the same shtick over and over.
I thought she was acting too in the screen test?
R26 that thing wasn''t good enough to take out Dietrich''s slop jar.
"If Dietrich was as bad as Riva claimed she was for EVERY performance, then how did she keep getting booked into prestigious concert halls year after year? Why were her concerts almost always sold out and got great reviews from the critics? I think Riva was exaggerating."%0D %0D She wasn't exaggerating. It's just that Dietrich's fans adored her and went to see her just to SEE her. If she threw up onstage they still would have applauded her. And she didn't always get "great reviews" from the critics. In Riva's biography there was a review of one of Dietrich's concerts that was scathing and completely true. It basically said that Dietrich was an old lady past her prime still gamely trying to give a performance and pass herself off as young. The critic also said that even though she just stood there and atempted to sing in a pitifully inadequate voice her fans ate it up. %0D %0D Dietrich's concert tours ended when she, drunk and sewn into a specially constructed dress that was more like a suit of armor, fell off the stage. She tried to bow in the contricting garment, tottered, and fell. She blamed the fall on the conductor, saying that in an attempt to shake her hand he managed to pull her off the stage. The poor man went to Riva and told her it wasn't true, he would never do anything to hurt her mother. River told him not to worry, she completely understood, and said her mother frequently told untruths and that people always believed her, and to just let it go.%0D %0D Maria Riva was a good daughter to her mother and never deserted her. But she never lost sight of what her mother really was; a selfish, demanding, egotistical, driven woman who used and discarded friends and lovers like kleenex. %0D %0D Yes, Dietrich was a great star, a great IMAGE.%0D But she wasn undeniably awful. A monster.
I have a feeling the insane Dietrich hater is none other than her cunt daughter.%0D\ %0D\ I will never forget when she was on Larry King and she told him she thought her mother was in "love" with her. Yech. Dietrich may be a crazy bitch, but at least she''s got style and class. Riva is a grade A CUNT. Let me repeat, a CUNT.
I used the word cunt 3 times to describe her and it''s still not enuf
The Dietrich Spawn shouldn''t have too many years left.
You can call this the original version of "I''m tired / Tired of being tired"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g-NkaFYpmE
Alfred Hitchcock
R32: Hello? They are all MONSTERS
Hedda Hopper
[quote]I have a feeling the insane Dietrich hater is none other than her cunt daughter.\ \ You never read her daughter''s book, did you? Maria Riva saw right through her mother but clearly she loved her and did everything she could to help and support her throughout her long life. \ \ The self-imposed squalor in which Dietrich lived in her final years was astonishing. No wonder she wouldn''t appear on film for MARLENE.
I just read Marlene''s autobiography. It''s hysterical. She was quite full of herself. Anbd the only woman she speaks fondly of is Mae West.\ \ The men she was obsessed with are Orson Welles, Richard Burton, Jean Genet, and Hemingway. She hated John Wayne and Jimmy Stewart. No mention of Gary Cooper (though they were lovers)
[quote]Is there anyone more divine ?\ \ \ Yo Mama.
Maria Riva
Interesting, R38, especially since Riva says Marlene got pregnant by Jimmy Stewart while making DESTRY RIDES AGAIN and had an abortion.
Did we know that Gwyneth Paltrow is doing a biopic of Dietrich for HBO? That ought to make some DL''ers heads explode...\ \ (towards the end of this link)
http://thefilmexperience.net/blog/2011/2/7/eve-stewart-on-the-king-speech-lacquering-mike-leigh-yelling.html
Have never understood the fascination with this woman, and when people say stuff like "she could have come on stage and shit on the floor and the audience would have lapped it up," well, that says a lot more about you than it does about Dietrich.\ \ I''m in my 50s, by the way, and have seen a Dietrich movie or two in my time.
I can't start threads, so I dug this one up because it seemed fitting. A 1968 appearence by Dietrich on a TV Awards show - obviously drunk, but she always got away with it because she was so overly-romantic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29nmMFANkSQ&feature=related
r6 speaks the truth.
R11 nailed it.
I saw her in 1973 in London, must have been one of her final concerts. It was a masterclass in audience manipulation as she worked the curtains to milk applause and when she put on that man's jacket ... but i loved her voice then - the 1964 concert album captures her act perfectly. I also love her final appearance in JUST A GIGOLO (1978?) where she is perfectly mysterious as ever, as director David Hemmings has to intercut her in Berlin with David Bowie in Paris, but somehow it works even though you know they are not there together. She did just 2 days on the movie and was just as imperious as ever. Her 30s movies with Von Sternberg are endlessly re-watchable as one discovers more in them each time.
"Anbd the only woman she speaks fondly of is Mae West." And Katharine Hepburn.
Maria Riva was and is a jealous nasty bitch. I doubt very much that she loved her mother. Her book is full of betrayal and absolutely bizarre beliefs by Maria. She was a very ungrateful daughter. I understand that as a child she may have resented the fact that it was her mother who had to work and support the entire family - and that included her father who never seemed to really work and her father's mistress whom Dietrich also supported and paid her expensive hospital and "rest home" bills. But that was how it was. Marlene always seemed attentive to her daughter and her grandchildren. She certainly was very generous with them. Maria pretty much lived off her mother for most of her life. Her children also benefitted from that largesse. When Dietrich was having financial problems in her old age and could barely afford her apartment rent in Paris Maria's son and his girlfriend, Jamie Lee Curtis, were living in Dietrich's NYC apt free of charge. Dietrich wouldn't throw them out and sell that. Nor would Dietrich sell certain jewels because she wanted to leave them to her daughter. Dietrich had bought Maria a NYC townhouse after she got married (to the second husband) in the late 40s or early 50s. Read the fucking book and you will see how incredibly biased Maria is against her mother. As far as Maria was concerned her mother could do nothing right except for her career which she would have been hard pressed to deny. Everything Marlene did as a mother or grandmother was criticized by Maria. It just becomes tiresome. I read Maria's anecdotes of things Marlene would do for her family and Maria would come up with some snarky, selfish reason behind everything. Maria had serious issues adn played them out trashing her mother. Yes, Marlene drank but I don't believe she was abusive at all. That was never her reputation. She was always very professional. Maria's idea of abuse was being looked at the wrong way. Even when her mother paid for her husband's surgeries she found some way to criticize her mother. I think Dietrich was a surprisingly down to earth woman in many ways. Her career may have been about glamour which she knew she needed to maintain but she seemed to be very straightforward about herself. Damn that family is Quick Draw McGraw when it comes to protecting their property rights. More money for them. Here's one of my favorites - the scene starts at about 1:25 - this one's singing is out of synch. There's better one floating around.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q-IgD-3gSc
Here is her 1971 interview - she looks like my mom here. This is part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9XtFyJh_BA
Dietrich 1971 Interview Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnz6qEd0dwE&feature=endscreen&NR=1
Dietrich singing La Vie en Rose. I only became interested in her in the past 5 years or so. She was a fascinating woman. Her loves, her career, her friends, her work during WWII, her whole persona. I became a fan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpAON4N_1ek
More goodies to get the sour taste of Maria Riva out of my mouth. The final scene from Orson Welles' Touch of Evil (1958)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeccTYUrb_Q
Me again
r48, I really do think your entire post is a study of personal transference.
She thought Dolores Del Rio was the most beautiful woman ever in Hollywood. And, despite thinking black people weren't that attractive, thought Lena Horne was also divinely beautiful.
[quote] She could have hiked her gown and taken a dump right there on the stage and she still would have been divine. If only we had footage of that on YouTube, her legend would live on for this younger generation.
R53, transference for what? I had a fabulous and loving mother. Sorry I can't indulge your armchair shrinkage. I will admit that I wish I hadn't been such a prude in my younger days about casual sex. My age has given me a better perspective on such dalliances. I do love that she seemed to have a rich and varied love life.
R48 et al
As I read her book, I wondered too how Maria Riva and her family supported themselves. If I remember correctly Dietrich died just before Riva's book was published, but Dietrich was able to file a law suit to stop publication just before her death.
[quote] Maria Riva was and is a jealous nasty bitch. I doubt very much that she loved her mother. Her book is full of betrayal and absolutely bizarre beliefs by Maria. She was a very ungrateful daughter. What the fuckity fuck fuck? I read the book…several times, in fact. I wasn't seeing animosity throughout the book. Maria didn't pull a Christina Crawford, that's for damn sure. She was brutally honest about her mother, and her mother was all about the mystique (a concept I appreciate). But I don't think there was a hatchet job. There are in some places a feeling of coldness or lack of emotional connectedness….but honestly, that's a cultural thing in Germany and in some parts of Europe. It's very "emotions are for the weak - chin up - march forward."
"If Dietrich was as bad as Riva claimed she was for EVERY performance, then how did she keep getting booked into prestigious concert halls year after year? Why were her concerts almost always sold out and got great reviews from the critics? I think Riva was exaggerating." She wasn't exaggerating. Her concerts were always sold out because she had diehard fangurls who just wanted to SEE her. Her singing voice was pitiful, but they didn't come to hear her sing. They just came to see Dietrich in the flesh. She didn't always get great reviews. Most reviews were admiring of her simply because she was still performing at her advanced age. What a trouper, the critics gushed. Even so, there was other critics who commented on the sadness of seeing Dietrich all gussied up and croaking out songs like "You're The Cream In My Coffee." They saw her shows for what they were: a frail old lady trying to convince her audiences that she was still young and desirable and at the peak of her talent. She could barely move onstage due to those skintight, specially constructed dresses she wore, which were like suits of armor. Frequently she was drunk and thus was always in danger of toppling over. While bowing, that is exactly what happened: she fell off the stage. Later she blamed the fall of the poor conductor; she said he grabbed her hand to shake it and pulled her off the stage. That was a lie; locked into the tight dress, drunk, she lost her balance and fell. Maria Riva's book is very honest and eloquent. Dietrich was a monstrous human being but Riva remained a faithful, concerned daughter to her mother her entire life. She definitely did not "hate" her.
"Maria Riva was and is a jealous nasty bitch. I doubt very much that she loved her mother. Her book is full of betrayal and absolutely bizarre beliefs by Maria. She was a very ungrateful daughter." You are obviously a goony Dietrich fangurl. Nothing you said has basis in fact. Riva's book is NO "Mommie Dearest" or "My Mother's Keeper." It's not that kind of biography. It's too windy, but aside from that it gives the reader the best, most complete and accurate portrait of Dietrich that's out there.
I never got once from Maria Riva's book that she HATED her mother. She wrote a very candid, revealing portrait of a woman who was impossibly immature and self-absorbed. Anyone who sees the book as "revenge" won't accept their idols as anything less than immortal and untouchable.
Marlene was an outspoken anti-Nazi who always represented the best of Germany when the gutter was in power during the Third Reich. No one should ever, ever forget that.
We haven't, r62. And I am sure those who think Riva painted a very articulate and truthful portrait of a classic narcissitic personality doesn't deny that Dietrich wanted nothing to do with the Third Reich. Anyone who thrived in the celebatory permissive days of Weimar wouldn't have. I don't know how to express it so many of you understand: just because you like Maria Riva's book - accept her view on things - doesn't necessarily mean you hate Dietrich. In fact, the book made me "appreciate" or understand her all the more instead of taking the superficial facade of a flawless immortal goddess. Riva's Dietrich is finally the human you detected must have been there behind the pose. She truly revealved Dietrich as a complex, fascinating personality that she truly was.
Divine? You're confusing her with Garbo, you prick.
Dietrich was Garbo with a sense of humor - and the Medal of Freedom.
Don't you DARE give that that shit, r65!!!!
http%3A//youtu.be/H3sjxMRwQBk
ONE movie - Ninotchka. Don't get me wrong, I love Garbo too, but one movie doesn't make up for a whole body of work full of gloom and doom.
[R63] Great points. Unfortunately, there's a sweeping culture of absolutism these days. It either MUST be one thing, or it MUST be the other. The idea that multiple perspectives could be true, or at least be valid or have worth, is beyond the grasp of a lotta bitches out there.
They call me Naughty Lola The wisest girl on Earth At home my pianola Is played for all it's worth Not only was she Garbo with a sense of humor, she was Garbo with a giant libido.
[quote]She also liked to take a dip on the lady pond A dip?!? She got in and laid in the tub for hours, with water up to her nose. At the link, singing "Black Market." Her performance skills are phenomenal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VbeKstCPKg
Love most of the Golden Age stars, but not her. She was too campy, corny and ridiculous looking. She couldn't sing or act. And for someone who hated Hitler for his intolerance, she sounded rather bigoted herself many times. Maria called it like she saw it.
r71, she wasn't bigoted, She was just a typical German who had an aristocratic Prussian upbringing.
YT is fabulous. Dietrich with Piaf on Piaf's wedding day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_2cRA1Szh4
I finally saw Witness for the Prosecution recently. 50 years old and she was great.
Damn%20you%21%20%20Dammmmn%20youuuuu%21
r2, are you serious? I heard she carried an obsession for Robert Redford in her reclusive years (having pictures of him under her pillow) and carried on a transatlantic relationship with Mikhail Barishnyikov via the telephone, but David Naughton - really? I had a huge thing for him when I was a kid during the American Werewolf In London days.
Agatha Christie said Witness For the Prosecution was her favorite film adaptation of all her works.
Do you want to kiss me, ducky?!!!!!!!!!!
OP, never as divine as moi, dahling.
Tallulah
That's wonderful, R73. Dietrich seems so protective of Piaf. Can you imagine strolling down Park Ave. on a random Sunday to see THAT crew coming toward you? Was that Piaf's boxer husband? Nice.
Peter Murphy captured her perfectly: Marlene Dietrich's Favourite Poem My mother loved it so she said sad eyed pearl and drop lips glancing pierce through writer man spoke hushed and frailing hips her old eyes skim in creasing lids a tear falls as she describes approaching death with a yearning heart with pride and no despise Hot tears flow as she recounts her favorite worded token forgive me please for hurting so don't go away heartbroken no don't go away heartbroken no Just wise owl tones no velvet lies crush her velvet call oh Marlene suffer all the fools who write you on the wall and hold your tongue about your life or dead hands will change the plot will make your loving sound like snakes like you were never hot Hot tears flow as she recounts her favorite worded token forgive me please for hurting so My mother loved it so she said sad eyed pearl and drop lips yeah glancing pierce through writer man spoke hushed and frailing lips yeah old eyes skim in creasing lids a tear falls as she describes approaching death with a yearning heart with pride and no despise Hot tears flow as she recounts her favorite worded token forgive me please for hurting so Don't go away heartbroken, no.
fan
It's not Dietrich - or Piaf - but it's Miss Peggy Lee in a rare reappearance of "The Boy from..." Get a look before they yank it down again!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-3fMuaAdIM
Dietrich worked tirelessly to entertain the troops, boost morale, and she sat with her boys at meals and gatherings. Dawn to dusk, she was there to cheer them on. My father STILL talks about meeting her in Europe during the war. She could've stayed in Hollywood or London, but she wanted to let the boys know how important they were.
Dietrich's war efforts should not be ridiculed or downplayed becaue she showed great courage and conviction. But she had it in her to do something like that - being up on the battlefront was up her alley. A fascination for military glamour came from her strict, prussian upbringing, and haviit also had something to do with her idolization of a father she never really knew. Dietrich was truly her father's daughter - she apparently inherited his good looks and his sexual prowess. Her willingness to entertain the troops went beyond meere public performances - apparently, the lines outside her tent were legendary. But Dietrich saw nothing wrong in that. She also saw nothing wrong with letting believe (wrongly) that her sister was an inmate of the concentration camp Belsen-Belsen. But Dietrich was a romantic - she romanticized everything. It wasn't sex that appealed to her in her endless afairs, for example - it was the romance. She romanticized and rewrote things to fit her single-minded vision - it is that ability that made her who she was.
I thought Dietrich never had anything to do with his sister and brother-in-law after she learned that they actually worked at the Belsen concentration camp. Dietrich and her mother are buried side by side in a lovely Berlin cemetery, which was apparently the work of Maria Riva. Inspired choice that Dietrich would have liked.
For R76. (Love Charles Laughton too!)
http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Ffeature%3Dendscreen%26NR%3D1%26v%3DsjkWibjhpIo
And then....
http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Ffeature%3Dendscreen%26NR%3D1%26v%3DWAFeFl9H8O8
I too saw Marlene in Atlanta at the Fairmont. But the exclusive club at the top was called the Crown Room. I also saw Peggy Lee and Ray Charles there. I was a 20 year old, with a 38 year old sugar daddy. He introduced me to a lot, in and out of the bedroom.
Eldergay%2C%20and%20loving%20it.
This is a very sad passage from Riva's book: "Her legs withered. Her hair, cut short haphazardly in drunken frenzies with cuticle scissors, painted with dyes; iodized pink between dirty white blotches. Her earlobes have begun to hang low. The teeth, of which she is so proud because they are "all hers", have blackened and cracked. Her left eye, dulled by a cataract she refuses to have treated. Her once translucent skin is parchment. Her exudes an odor of booze and human decay. Death sits like a Jabba on dirty sheets, and with it all, despite and through the decay, something remains...a faint glimmer, perhaps only a memory of what once was...BEAUTY...so enveloping...so enthralling...so perfect, that for more than fifty years, all women were judged by its standard, all men desired it. Her snores are ragged, spittle trails from her furrowed lips. Like a fetus she lies, bony hands cradling a sunken cheek, her matchstick legs tucked high against her frail body, she lies...as though afraid to be born and face another day's survival. I stand looking at this pathetic creature, who calls herself my mother, and feel sorry for both of us."
If by "divine" you mean "immortal," and if by "immortal" you mean "not alive," then no.
"Her exudes an odor of booze and human decay." Her did?
r72, some people would call that bigoted. She was a racist. Read the bio by her daughter - she had many racist qualities.
I attended a girls' high school; our advisor tried desperately to show our fidgety class how to attain some polish. She held up Dietrich as an example of discipline, saying she'd stand for 8 hours at a time to be fitted into her gowns by Jean Louis (I think?)
I've posted this story before: a drunken Dietrich tried to mouth kiss me. I passed! I was a young, blond and then pretty male student who was passing the stage door and thought I'd hang out to see her. From 20 paces away, with TV lights on her, she looked unearthly. Up close what one saw was a very well preserved elderly wrinkled prussian general in a powderblue pantsuit with a good facelift (neck pulled tight), very thick makeup with blue eyeshadow trowelled on, smeared lippy over no lips, and an exceedingly good wig. Her chauffeur heaved suitcases into the back of the Daimler and they clinked with the sound of bottles. She handed me a stack of photos of herself to hand to the crowd but they were grabbed from my hand. Then laughing and gurgling she stood on the Daimler's running board (remember those?) and frisbee-ed more photos to the crowd, showing a huge expanse of back flesh. Then she slumped into the Daimler, and turned off the Dietrich 'on' switch to 'off'. Sitting in the back, a little elderly figure, I realised then and there what I was seeing: a tiny woman who by sheer force of will and enormous energy had travelled a long long way from the suburbs of Weimar Berlin.
"Her exudes an odor of booze and human decay." Her did? No, "she" did. Sorry about the error, Miss Priss.
That's nothing. Once in the late '70s I was leaving the Pump Room in Chicago after a charming luncheon with Jane Byrne and a couple of aldermen just as la Dietrich was arriving in a big Yellow Cab. She turned to us and barked, "Cold are the hands of time that creep along relentlessly, destroying slowly but without pity that which yesterday was young. Alone our memories resist this disintegration and grow more lovely with the passing years. Heh! That's hard to say with false teeth!"
But it seemed as though that passage was a c/p from another source, R93. Whadja do, type it out?
The one thing I was amazed by through Maria Riva's book was that Dietrich never used anything on her face other than witch hazel. No face creams, no cold creams, nothing. Just ordinary witch hazel.
Some people are just genetically lucky, R96. They can smoke and drink and wash their faces with bar soap and not use any fancy skin products like Dietrich did and still look like a million bucks well into their later years. It's all in the genes. Life ain't fair!
Here's Dietrich at age 77 in 1978, in her final film role. She still looked wonderful. She became a recluse right after this, and was never photographed again.
http://blog.goethe.de/meet-the-germans/uploads/Dietrich3.jpg
r97 again
r96 -- Riva clearly wasn't telling the whole story. No way could Dietrich have peeled off that Teflon foundation and colors without an oil-based solvent. Once she'd wiped the bulk of the oils and creams away, she probably did use witch hazel to remove the rest of it.
"Whadja do, type it out?" Yep, I have Riva's book and typed out that passage from it. She didn't look "wonderful" in her last film. She had on a ton of make-up and was photographed through a ridiculously soft lens that made her look fuzzy and indistinct. In fact, the reaction to her pitiful performance in that move was the impetus for her never making another movie again. Riva captioned a photo of her from her last movie with this: "Just a Gigolo", the last film she should not have had to make--the last costume that she should not have had to wear."
That bitch was an amateur.
J.%20Crawford
[quote]Garbo is infinitely more fascinating. You've got to be fucking kidding. Not that I'm any great fanboy of Dietrich's but Garbo was most boring selfish narcissist ever. Offscreen, a nothing life. Whereas offscreen is where Dietrich's living began.
I wouldn't go around naming a charity organization after her.
Dietrich stuck hooks into her skin, and then attached the hooks to thin wires that were pulled back and hidden in her hair/wig. The skin was taut, at least for awhile. More or less, this is the beauty technique described in Riva's book. I may have gotten the details slightly wrong (were the hooks dipped in lidocaine?), but essentially, this was the elderly Marlene's approach to stage makeup. None of this nonsense about creams and plenty of sleep.
With how many women had she slept apart from men? Hehe.
http%3A//www.famouswhy.com/photos/marlene_dietrich_and_edith_piaf_image.jpg
My mother loved it so she said / Sad eyed pearl and drop lips
Marlene Dietrich may be leaning in for a kiss, but Maurice Chevalier is concerned with something else…
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[quote]Not that I'm any great fanboy of Dietrich's but Garbo was most boring selfish narcissist ever. Offscreen, a nothing life. Whereas offscreen is where Dietrich's living began Well that's the stupidest thing ever written. You're slamming Garbo as a "selfish narcissist ever" as opposed to...Marlene, who was without a doubt the world's biggest selfish narcissist ever. An elderly Garbo walked around New York city and everyone wanted to photograph her while Marlene locked herself up in a room never to be seen by mortals because she looked too old. There's nothing fascinating about Marlene because she was a total fake. It's like saying Madonna is fascinating.
Excuse me R108, but if Marlene was such a fake, women wouldn't let her to fuck them and she dated many of them.
She dated women in a period that dating women was not 'in'. She made it 'in'.
"but if Marlene was such a fake, women wouldn't let her to fuck them and she dated many of them" I'm sure the lesbos she "dated" didn't give a fuck whether or not she was "fake." She was Marlene Dietrich, the Hollywood Star; that was reason enough for them to want to have sex with her.
I don't think that Dietrich was only sleeping with lesbos, that's the point! She was sleeping with bisexual women.
I think Marlene's bitchy daughter is posting. Is that you, Maria?
Lol, fuck you R113, noooooo!
The pointless bitchery is strong in this thread.
Darth%20Gayder
Seriously now... I think Dietrich was more fond of women, but she was clever enough to realize that a woman needs men in her life. Plus the fact that she managed to keep her marriage despite her wild life, makes her brilliant in my eyes.
Marlene with Greta Garbo...
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Marlene with Greta again...
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Marlene and Greta Garbo never met one another.
R119, you are wrong dear!
...
http%3A//www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/4720951/Ladies-who-lie-together....html
Marlene with her daughter
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I think Marlene's daughter, Maria Riva was very beautiful
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Marlene's daughter beautiful Maria Riva with her
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I think Marlene was very proud of her beautiful daughter
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I wonder if Maria had the same inclinations with her mother. Was she bisexual?
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Rita Hayworth once confessed that she got the best head ever– not from a man– but from Marlene Dietrich. When Marlene wanted Rita to return the favor, Rita told her, “Mañana.” Tomorrow never came…
http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DTvm_WDr8BZI
Marlene%20sings%20to%20Rita
Dataloungers forgot me
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Marlene%20Dietrich
"I wonder if Maria had the same inclinations with her mother. Was she bisexual?" No. She had a bad first marriage, but her second one lasted. She had four sons, one of them handicapped in some way; oddly, she never reveals in her memoir exactly what was wrong with him. According to her, she reveled in being a wife and mother. I think, by Datalounge's definition, she was a real "frau."
Tig notaro is hatas!
Garbo and Dietrich NEVER met.
Maria
A photo gallery of Dietrich's lovers, rumoured and factual:
http://www.whosdatedwho.com/tpx_6312/marlene-dietrich/
R129 maybe Maria secretly wanted p..sy. You never can tell.
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Marlene%20
My daughter has lesbian vibes
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Marlene%20Dietrich
Maria writes in her stunning autobiography/biography that Marlene wanted nothing more than to have Maria be a lesbian. Not as a fashion accessory a'la Edwina Monsoon, but more as a lifetime spinster handmaiden and companion. Dietrich even went so far as to set up the very environment that led to a young Maria being continually molested by an unsavory woman who could only be described as a bull dyke, an associate of the madcap heiress Jo Carstairs with whom Dietrich was enjoying a lesbian romp with. Maria insinuates that Dietrich knew exactly what she was doing when she put this very shady character in charge of her daughter. Years later, according to Maria, Dietrich wold try to pull the same maneouver on one of her grandsons (Maria's son) by taking the very blonde and pretty boy out to acquaint him with all her older gay friends while supplying him with under-the-counter drugs, hoping the boy would become homosexual and he would take Maria's former place as handmaiden (even better because he was a handsome young man). The boy apparently rebuffed these efforts. Despite the fact that I tend to believe Maria, I also recognize that there is a what might be construed as a resent-filled homophobic undercurrent in her writing. It's noteworthy that she doesn't seem to have anything nice to say about the female lovers her mother had; the ones she mentions - Piaf, de Acosta, Carstairs - are all described as vile, creepy, mannish. All the men who came in and out of Dietrich's life are given flattering sympathetic portraits by Maria; that other familial victim of Dietrich's callousness, Rudi's lifelong mistress Tamara Matul, is given a very romantic and tragic portrayal by Maria in her book - there is a tender and deep love for this frail and fragile creature that comes through very overtly. Yet, her mother's female lovers are portrayed as frightening creatures. I read a resentment towards these women that may stem from the molestation episode.
R135, i'm shocked from what you wrote! Are there any mothers who want their daughters to be lesbians and try things to achieve that? Lol. It's so out of this world. What do you mean when you wrote that Maria was molested continually by a woman? It's so hard for me to imagine a woman molesting some other, innocent me. How did she molest her, what she did to her ffs and why she didn't mention that to her father if she found it criminal? Was molestation a caress or a kiss by the way? Just saying...How old she was back then? If Marlene wanted truly her daughter to be a lesbian she would try to lure her by having close to her feminine gorgeous women who are bi or lesbians and not bull dykes. Gee!
Maria is still alive, isn't she?
Yes R137 she is alive.
http%3A//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Riva
[quote] Maria writes in her stunning autobiography/biography that Marlene wanted nothing more than to have Maria be a lesbian [quote] Years later, according to Maria, Dietrich wold try to pull the same maneouver on one of her grandsons (Maria's son) by taking the very blonde and pretty boy out to acquaint him with all her older gay friends while supplying him with under-the-counter drugs, hoping the boy would become homosexual Maria is obviously a nut. I don't care how refined she sounds and how she tries to sound balanced. She is extremely resentful of her mother. Her mother is the person whose work supported the entire family - Maria's father, Maria's father's mistress, Maria and later as an adult even provided a great deal to Maria and her husband and their children. Maria can barely disguise her homophobia. I'd say Maria's exposure to her father's mentally unbalanced mistress for decades was more harmful to her than anything else.
[quote] that other familial victim of Dietrich's callousness, Rudi's lifelong mistress Tamara Matul I never got a sense Marlene was callous toward Tamara at all. She helped Rudi with her for decades. What exactly was she supposed to do with her husband's mistress? Maria is such a bitch. She is certainly not an asset to the Abbey.
Looooool R140!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Does anybody know who is the woman among Dietrich and her husband? Is she Tamara Matul?
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It's all detailed in her book, r136. Maria was in her early teens when Dietrich asssigned an associate of Jo Carstairs as Maria's new governess. She doesn't go into specific detail, but for what lasted about a year, Maria was molested by this woman in silent assaults. She writes of how she was taking naps and the woman would come into the room and she could feel the weight of her body on hers. There were somekind of sexual trangressions that took place. Maria remained silent, because tat was she was "trained to do" (to be obedient); she was convinced her mother knew exactly what was going on. They never discussed it openly. She carried it with her through her life that her mother "had to know."
Maria remained silent...oh come on!
Yes, r141, that is Tamara Matul. Marlene ceased having sex with Rudi after her daughter's conception - Tami was convenient for her to remain secure in what was essentially an open marriage and keep her husband/business partner happy. The emotional and mental abuse that both Rudi and Marlene inflicted on the Russian emigree is detailed in full in Maria's book. The woman was never all there, but being subjected to a lifetime of objectifcation and manipulation by the Seibers oushed her over the edge - Dietrich making sure she had a steady supply of any drugs she needed to make her happy or make her sleep or make her quiet and content didn't help the fragile woman's at all. The chilling episode I remember the most is when Tamara is strapped down in a hospital bed after having received electric shock therapy. Maria was an adult by then and trying to protect Tami from more organized assaults on Tami from her parents. Maria tried to stop the ECTs but Dietrich insisted. Maria writes she had no choice but to acquiesce but insisted she be there wit Tami. She promised her mother the doctors would do as they were ordered. Dietrich, swathed in furs, retorted "You better. I paid", before getting in a limo and driving away.
She's insufferable. Never got the fascination for her.
R144 Thanks for taking time for writing that too :) Well, i think you are on Maria's side, right?
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Marlene had orgasm with women, she faked her orgasms with men.
I%20bet
Maria Riva might feel guilty of her own past lesbian tendencies. That's why the whole hostility i guess...
Marlene avec Maria Riva
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Marlene again with Maria Frauen!
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The best thing I can say about her is that she would have been a brilliant cinematographer. She could feel on her skin, from the heat, if a light was in the wrong place.
R144, that is entirely Maria's very biased take on what happened. Absolutely no guarantee of the truth. In fact it's more likely if it comes from Maria it's probably not the truth or not reality. She twists numerous events to make her mom look bad. Even simple innocuous things her mom did or very geenrous things ehr mom did for her or others become evil and cunning in Maria's eyes. Funny though how Maria has never had any problem living off her mother or her mother's legacy.
[quote]She twists numerous events to make her mom look bad. Even simple innocuous things her mom did or very geenrous things ehr mom did for her or others become evil and cunning in Maria's eyes. Can you give examples? I just ordered the book and would love to know what's been twisted.
Her clit is twisted
Maria's bio of her mother is the best biography I have ever read.
R153, I can't remember all the instances I felt that way throughout the book. But I remember for instance that when her mom paid for Maria and her husband and family to go to IIRC Switzerland forthe husband's medical treatment and paid for everything Maria turned it into something her mom did only to control her and her family. Similarly the way Maria talks about the house Marlene bought for Maria and her family to live in - a townhouse IIRC on the Upper Eastside. Even Marlene cooking for her grandchildren becomes nefarious. If Maria felt this way her entire adult life why did she continue to use her mother's assets for herself and her family. Her mother was living in dire circumstances for a while and yet she wouldn't sell jewelry she had and certainly wasn't using becasue she was saving the piees for her daughter to inherit. Marlene also could have sold that apartment in NYC that she let her grandson and Jamie Lee Curtis live in free of charge as well as sell that townhouse. Just read the book and decide for yourself. I came away pretty disgusted with Maria so I am probably pretty biased against her at this point. But after reading a lot of sources about Marlene I came away with a lot of respect for Marlene. Marlene didn't play the role of the traditional mother as she was the breadwinner for the entire family. I think Maria resented this and the absences it caused and as she got older and wanted some success of her own maybe resented her mother's success. Marlene's breadwinning continued way into Marlene's old age. No one stopped taking from her. Maria also just has some weird perspectives and I don't trust her judgment or her memory.
From what i gathered Maria Riva acts like a.... That's sad. She was beautiful and she is Dietrich's daughter. She should put more heart in her judgment. Ffs.
I have posted this before about Maria Riva's book. Maria and her immediately family are shown as living saints, as opposed to her mother, and, to a degree, her dad. It's a shame because Ms. Rive is smart, and could have written a great book.
That's why I love her, r32.
R90, if so, why was Dietrich so *close* to Lena Horne for a while?
Fellas, at least Dietrich knew how to fuck.
Rita%20Hayworth
What's the source for the Dietrich-Rita Hayworth affair?
R162 google it. The results are many.
R147, it's like that for every woman.
Is 'Marlene' (2000) a good biopic of her?
Sooooo? Tell me!!!!!!!!!!
R165
Rita Hayworth? Marlene had a life long close relationship with Orson Welles. They adored each other but I don't remember if they ever got together sexually. During one interview Marlene said that they were always otherwise engaged with others and once when she heard he had just ended a relationship she called him up and told him that Oh, Orson, this is our time now. We're both free at the same time. Marlene said Orson told her Oops too late. I already started a new affair. LOL! For some reason I was surprised about her many years with Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. I love that she had affairs with almost everyone. I wish I had been less of a prude and so cautious all my life.
In Maria Riva's book, Douglas Fairbanks Jr. is never mentioned by name, but always as "The Knight." He was still living when the book was published and obviously Maria didn't want a lawsuit because she really dished the dirt.
The biopic 'Marlene' pays a good tribute to Dietrich or not???????????????????????????????
http%3A//www.imdb.com/title/tt0192295/
"Is 'Marlene' (2000) a good biopic of her?" YES, it's a very good movie. So go watch it, why don't you?
The best film is the 1984 documentary by Maximillian Schell called "Marlene." Dietrich sat for long interviews, so you hear her voice throughout--mostly disagreeing with Schell. But, Dietrich is never seen on screen, which calculated or not by Ms. Dietrich, makes it a far better film than it would otherwise be
OP Here. This is the Youtube which was deleted from my original post.
http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DXO0tqcJ4I4U
OP
Schell's "Marlene" documentary is a must-watch if you are at all interested in Marlene. It was made in the early 1980s when Dietrich was a recluse in her Paris apartment and refused to be photographed anymore. There is, however, one photo of the old and invalid Dietrich sitting up in bed when she was in her 80's and she still looked pretty good, considering her age.