People were upset by The Patriot Act and how intrusive the government was becoming. Now Uncle Sam is feeling your groin at the airport claiming it''s necessary to protect the security of the country. When will it end?
Just in time for Thanksgiving, National Opt Out Day is Wednesday, November 24.
The liberal left and neocon right have become so blinded by their lust for power that simple things like "rights" and "due process" and "rule of law" and "the constitution" aren''t regarded as benefits but obstacles. They will screw everyone they can just to gain more power and control.\
It is for this reason that post 9-11 actions by both parties forced me to seek alternatives, and I found Ron Paul. Now that I can see these things clearly, each encroachment and increase in government power can be understood as a screwing of the people.\
I cannot stand my liberal Democrat friends anymore, since they simply suck up each attack as a means to an end. Disgusting, vile people. Don''t even get me started on the scum that proudly call themselves Republicans.
[R5] for someone pointing the finger, you read like a disgusting vile sack of shit.
"People were upset by The Patriot Act and how intrusive the government was becoming."\
Very few as I remember it. And you "loved terrorists" if you didn''t like the Patriot Act.
What are you guys talking about? Passengers got groped all the time in Europe for years. \
As a matter of fact, I have my favorite German TSA equivalents touching me all the time going through Frankfurt Airport. Never failed to give me a hard-on. \
Oh, those bearish guys at Amsterdam Airport. Oh.. la..la..\
Stop complaining. You will like it. Trust me.
I got felt up by a hunky German officer in Frankfurt this August. After that, he complimented my watch. I can totally get behind such intrusions of my privacy.
Germans are protesting their own security procedures by showing up for flights wearing nothing but underwear or bathing suits.
Love it, R8. Thanks for the link.
I foresee Bergen-Bilsen (sp?) Auschwitz etc in our future. Remember THX whatever the numbers were? Who knew George Lucas was a prophet.
If we are to be felt up, can we at least demand that the screeners be hunky?
r16 close your eyes and pretend you are cottaging.
R15, although I'm certain our masters and their foot soldiers would be ecstatic to throw all government dissidents (left and right) into gulags, I am hopeful that the destabilizing force of the internet will make such a move impossible.
Their schemes are constantly scrutinized by millions, and their inability to control the "alternative" media has disrupted their careful plans. As they flail and grasp, they lose more control. One day, the majority will withdraw all consent, and they will find themselves leaders without followers. Too bad we've done away with the guillotine.
That said, the number of idiotic fellow travelers and blind power worshipers who post here- many of whom would be thrilled if the government executed us- makes me wonder if government schooling and mass media consumption has made the populace too stupid and docile to ever protest. As their latest schemes to "save the economy" fail even more spectacularly, and hyperinflation, economic stagnation and increasing poverty become the norm, I am certain they will try even more bizarre and harebrained ploys to reassert control.
With any luck, more people will wake up to the fact that government is ALWAYS the enemy, and the only way to prosper is to get it as far away from our lives as possible.
Thank you R5, for yet again reminding us that Libertarians are fundamentally brain-damaged.
[quote]Now Uncle Sam is feeling your groin at the airport claiming it''s necessary to protect the security of the country. When will it end?\
much ado about nothing, mary. He''s never groped me and probably never will.
GET OVER YOURSELVES!
[quote]Backlast over scanners...\
oh, dear. . . .
Honestly, the way they talk about how they "found" Ron Paul, as if they found Jesus, is just creepy.
R5 is a certifiable loony! Let''s Poke Fun at her!
If I was a TSA agent viewing the body scan images and saw a guy with a big dick, I would come out from my little room and check the guy out. If I liked what I saw, I would fail the scan and say he had to be patted down BY ME. It would be the longest pat-down ever and involve going underneath the boxers. Mmmm.
How do I get a job with TSA?
"If you touch my junk I''ll have you arrested."%0D
"If you touch my junk I''ll have you arrested."\
guys like this need to be force-raped and dumped on the side of a road.
Michael Chertoff''s financial interest in these over-funded but under-tested underwear-stripping machines is his reward for having written the Patriot Act and serving as Director of Fatherland Security.%0D\
R29, as explained at the link, the nexus of government control and corporate power is the essence of fascism. It is the ruling ideology of America these days, and embraced by most of the people here on Datalounge!
Eventually you''ll be able to spot airline pilots and flight attendants from a distance by their glowing skin.
Any pat-down will last 3 minutes or less. Why is this so hard? You can do anything for 3 minutes.
The government, whether led by Obama or Bush, will be blamed if anything goes wrong. They need to deal with the situation.
Tonight I saw an MSNBC show that pitted a security official against a woman from an organization called flyersrights.com.
This woman had done a lot of googling but was not a security professional. She suggested measures for airport security that sounded like they would cost a fortune and take forever -- having dogs sniff people (which to me sounds grosser than a patdown and how are you going to have hundreds of dogs at the airport? plus Muslims think dogs are unclean so count them out.) The transportation official sounded more rooted in the day-to-day reality.
Airport security is dumb, it doesn't make sense, but it's like family. Annoying but nobody dies.
Hate to send myself flowers, but don't I seem easygoing compared to the would-be Patrick Henry/Charles Bukowski on this thread?
and their pointy ears
How long before Brad Pitt''s and Angelina Jolie''s body scans start showing up in Us Weekly?
I wish, R35. If a famous person was shown naked to the world via scan then the entire "we don''t store pictures" lie would be exposed.\
Numerous stories have surfaced of TSA agents sharing photos, but the media won''t talk about it. A scandal like that would at least show people how blatant the lies are.
All of you anti-scanner people are such babies. You buy a plane ticket, you agree to the rules. You don''t like it, don''t fuckin'' fly.
We will all dress like Dieter from Sprockets and we will enjoy it.
We average folk probably don''t have much to worry about. It''s the exceptionally well-hung dudes and famous people who will have their scans posted on the TSA bulletin boards. What''s the harm in that?
How will they pat down women in tight skirts?
[quote]All of you anti-scanner people are such babies.%0D\
Tell that to the frequent fliers who get cancer from radiation poison ten years down the road.
The guy who didn''t want "his junk" touched said in his blog that all post 9/11 attempts to blow up planes have been foiled by passengers, not TSA.\
I remember the Shoe Bomber and the Underware bomber. Were there more?
Wouldn''t they have to be able to store pictures to use as evidence in case someone does have a bomb on them?
Here''s a great story- \
"The Transportation Security Administration concedes that a 4-year-old boy heading to Walt Disney World for a birthday celebration should not have been forced to remove his leg braces during an airport-security screening in Philadelphia, a Philly columnist writes. \
"The Philadelphia Inquirer''s Daniel Rubin writes that the incident occurred last March when Ryan Thomas was flying to Orlando with his parents, Bob and Leona, but that the TSA apologized last week only after the columnist got wind of it." \
So no apology would have ever been offered if the media hadn''t picked up the 18 month old story of a DISABLED 4 YEAR OLD being forced to struggle through the hoops of security theater. No wonder the TSA is having PR troubles!
I find it interesting that most of the people I''ve heard complaining about the body pat downs are men.
Totally agree, R37. It''s not a right to fly. Drive if you''re that outraged. %0D\
I''d get felt-up 1,000 times and wait in long lines if it prevents another 3,000 people from dying.
Who Do We Really Need to Fear, "Them" or Us?
TSA and America's Zero Risk Culture
By RICHARD FORNO
The lede on the DRUDGEREPORT most of Monday showed a Catholic nun being patted down at an airport security checkpoint, with the caption starkly declaring that "THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON."
Ten years after 9/11, Americans who fly are facing a Faustian choice between subjecting themselves to a virtual (and potentially medically damaging) strip search conducted in questionable machines run by federal employees or a psychologically damaging pat-down of their bodies. Osama bin Ladin must be giggling himself silly this week.
But what should we expect in a society that requires adults to wear bicycle helmets while pedaling in the park, provides disclaimers of liability on TV advertisements, or prints warnings on fast-food coffee cups? The name of the game is zero risk. Not risk mitigation, or accepting responsibility for one's actions, but risk aversion. It's a failure to acknowledge that we can't protect against everything bad that can happen to us, so we must protect against everything we think might -- might -- be harmful at some point.
It's living in fear.
TSA has established itself as the lead federal agency charged with perpetuating this risk-averse culture at airports around the country. The proof is evident over the past ten years: Because of the Shoebomber, we have to remove our shoes. Thanks to the Christmas Crotchbomber, we are subjected to invasive scanning or government-mandated molestation. Because there's a potential for explosives in liquid or gel form, we've got the "Three Ounces in A Baggie" rule. Wearing a sweater or bulky fleece hoodie? Take it off (along with your shoes and belt) so it can be examined. Or frisking Granny, or asking toddlers to drink from their Sippy-cups to make sure it's really Mommy's milk inside. And let's not forget the thankfully defunct prohibitions on knitting needles, insulin syringes, matches, lighters, or standing during the last 30 minutes of flights to Washington, DC.
All in the name of protecting the homeland.
Given this latest round of homeland hysteria, I must ask again -- what happens after the next 'new' attempt to smuggle something onto a plane? Actually, we know the answer: another item will go on the Prohibited Items List and additional screenings of passengers will be conducted, followed by more patronising security-speak from our Department of Homeland Insecurity asking law abiding folks to give up more of their privacy and personal "space" in the interest of Homeland (er, "State") Security. Big Brother, meet Big Sister. With all her homeland security lobbyists along for the ride.
Where does it end?
Due to this nationalised risk aversion and a docile public, we're now living in a country that subordinates law abiding travelers to quasi-law-enforcement employees of a government agency empowered to make up the rules as it goes along and arrest/fine those who question, challenge, or refuse to comply with their demands while impeding their travel within this great country. What does all of this do to our nation? Our way of life? Our way of thinking as citizens?
Perhaps this is intentional, and we're being conditioned to accept the actions of TSA and embrace a zero-risk mentality on our society. What else can explain the statement made earlier today by TSA Director John Pistole that citizens who protest what they see as government transgressions into their privacy are being "irresponsible"? Calling us irresponsible when protesting this latest round of TSA actions is no different than our being labelled unpatriotic when protesting or questioning some of the provisions in the controversial USA PATRIOT Act. Same stuff, different Administration.
The American public needs to recognise the nature of the terror threat and accept a certain level of risk in their lives and travels instead of kowtowing to every reactive security 'enhancement' proclaimed by TSA as necessary to protect the country. In terms of airport security, we are the laughing stock of the industrialised world, and an embarrassment to knowledgeable security professionals.
The tragedy of 9/11 wasn't the attacks of that day, but what has happened to America in the years since.
Which begs the question: who should we be afraid of, really -- "them" or "us?"
Great post, R48/49\
Here''s a story from today of people who had TSA agents STICK THEIR HANDS DOWN THEIR PANTS! Apparently that''s the "new" protocol for pants they deem too loose or baggy.\
The idiots trying to defend this need to be ridiculed. I''m so glad I started to see through this bullshit post 9/11 and finally realized the libertarians were right- the government IS the enemy!!!
[quote]I''d get felt-up 1,000 times and wait in long lines if it prevents another 3,000 people from dying.%0D\
It won''t because 9/11 was an inside job. %0D\
The next time the Pentagon/CIA/Mossad needs thousands more Americans to die to forward their plans of Middle Eastern conquest thousands more Americans WILL die regardless of these phony preventative security procedures. %0D\
Here is a good close-up video of that allegedly "mighty inferno" that brought WTC 7 down on itself just like a controlled demolition.
To have your government touch your junk or to have your enemy blow your junk into pieces.\
Why is this such a hard choice for some people?
Who fucking cares, quit complaining. I''d rather have it and feel safer that no one on the plane brought anything to cause it to fall 30,000 feet out of the sky causing my death.
A few nights ago, there was an Israeli security expert on TV who was quite frustrated with the TSA. After the Shoe Bomber, in the US we have to take off our shoes, but he said the way they handle it in his country is their security talks to passengers three times before they board -- at the curb when they greet them, at the check in counter, and at the gate.
Someone like The Shoe Bomber would have been flagged because he had a British passport that had been issued in Belgium, he bought a one way ticket to Florida with cash, and he had no luggage.
Also, the security people in Israel are highly educated and trained -- they usually know more than two languages and have six months in the classroom before they are tested and allowed on the line. After that, they undergo random tests and if they let through any counter-band, they are fired on the spot. If they are not as thorough as their training requires, they are sent back to school for another six months.
I guess if you are flagged, you go through The Super Interrogation and hardcore frisking, and I have read if they take you into the back room, the first thing they do is offer you a glass of water in order to get your fingerprints. I guess everyone knows this because one problem with this method is while it protects pilots and babies from getting frisked, it is often cited as being used for political ends.
Nonetheless, with constitutional safeguards in place, their methods would go far in improving our system.
If Israel doesn''t use scanners and/or mandatory frisks you know they are bs. This is security theater meant to desensitize the public to government harassment while enriching the coffers of Chertoff.
It will never end. Indeed, it will continue to get worse and worse for the simple reason that the majority of americans are too stupid, drugged, or just plain brain-dead to want to do what is necessary to stop it.
Mrs Patrick Campbell
Yes, a patdown at the airport is just one step from round-ups on trains headed to for the camps. I totally get it. The dots almost connect themselves.%0D\
Meanwhile, our government continues illegal detention practices, wire-tapping and surveillance of citizens, secret trials, two wars and a myriad of other freedom-quenching activities. Nary a peep. %0D\
And, guess what? That''s how fascism really takes place - paranoia about the trivial, ignorance about what really matters.
What r5 said.
they will tell them to spread their cootchies.
Think about it, a lesbian is in charge of security, so it''s free feels for everybody.
God. If guys would just board the planes in Speedos, and women on wore bikini bottoms and pasties, we could end this all tomorrow.
It is amazing to me how many of you are ignorant sheeple. This is theatre designed to destroy our sensitivity, not security.
I know plenty of people who find the TSA menacing or irritating. I say: touch me all you want. Anything to keep that damn plane in the air. I'm not looking critically at the methods I'm afraid.
I do not care about the full body scanner. I have to lift my hands above my head.. who cares I've already got my shoes and belt off. I doubt they get too much detail (or stimulation) off the images.
A lot of people hate the TSA, yes?
I'm so glad Obama stopped this. He is protecting our civil rights. Once he ended US involvement in the wars in the middle east and stopped the drug war, I was so happy. His refusal to sign the NDAA that allowed the military to kill any US citizen I was thrilled. His refusal to continue bailing out the banks and big corporations at taxpayer expense shocked me, but I'm so glad he did it!
R65 you are very good right thinking citizen who has no resistance...very good.
Nonsense, R37. If there was any benefit to increased security from these patdowns, I'd be fine with them. But there has been no benefit shown.
I'll put my cards on the table. I have no problem with profiling. And the first time a blond-blue eyed Scandinavian type tries to light his/her underwear, shoes or any other thing on fire or detonate any bomb on his/her person, you can add this group to the profile list at US airports. Despite the tinhats, we have the identity of the terrorists and they were all the same ethnicity. Even during the worst IRA conflicts in the UK, we never had the Irish trying to blow up planes here. Let's do the things that will really increase security and stop playing games.
Safety isn't the issue- it is making sure the cattle know their place.
From the book about Nazi Germany, "They Thought They Were Free"
"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after 1933, between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know, it doesn’t make people close to their government to be told that this is a people’s government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing, to do with knowing one is governing.
"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.
"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.
"You will understand me when I say that my Middle High German was my life. It was all I cared about. I was a scholar, a specialist. Then, suddenly, I was plunged into all the new activity, as the university was drawn into the new situation; meetings, conferences, interviews, ceremonies, and, above all, papers to be filled out, reports, bibliographies, lists, questionnaires. And on top of that were the demands in the community, the things in which one had to, was ‘expected to’ participate that had not been there or had not been important before. It was all rigmarole, of course, but it consumed all one’s energies, coming on top of the work one really wanted to do. You can see how easy it was, then, not to think about fundamental things. One had no time."
"Those," I said, "are the words of my friend the baker. ‘One had no time to think. There was so much going on.’"
"Your friend the baker was right," said my colleague. "The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway. I do not speak of your ‘little men,’ your baker and so on; I speak of my colleagues and myself, learned men, mind you. Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?
[quote]Now Uncle Sam is feeling your groin at the airport claiming it's necessary to protect the security of the country.
PLEASE, tell me where this is happening! I have experienced this in YEARS! I NEED it now!
[quote]I know plenty of people who find the TSA menacing or irritating
they always seem sleepy and doltish to me, I can't imagine what your friends are experiencing.
Sheeple...it is important to read R69.
R70, I love to release my inner queen whenever I fly and have to "opt out" and get a crotch check.
Fuck these subhuman nazi morons. If I make them feel bad for taking the job...I'd rather shovel shit that do what they do.
The TSA is a joke. They simply collect toiletries from people. In September, a TSA worker said she had to take my toothpaste because it was over the size limit. I asked her why on the way out it wasn't taken. She seemed embarrassed and she should have been. She told me she wished the different airports were consistent. I then loudly drew everyone's attention to the fact that she was taking my toothpaste and told everyone to rest assured that we were all safer because of it. The people in line started laughing and clapping at what I said. Everyone has disdain for this unnecessary part of travel. This nonsense really does need to end.
But, R74--- They are protecting us, and if people like Ron Paul call them out, he gets labeled as crazy.
The entire government is just the TSA writ large. Until you accept that the government is out for the big banks and big corps, and embrace libertarianism you will not understand.
As long as the TSA agent is wearing gloves I can't be sued for giving them my "rash."
R75, your post makes no sense in relation to mine. I sure don't feel safer with a bunch of half-wits collecting toiletries.
And the government is out for the big banks and big corps--no shit. Anyone who doesn't see that is a moron. But again, it doesn't have anything to do with my post.
Most of my travel I've been lucky through LaGuardia so no touching, but other airports I just moan and try to get a hard on before they examine me.
It makes them so embarrassed. Good- Nazi apparatchiks SHOULD be embarrassed. And quit.
LOL.... Can't you just see this idiot trying those tactics? Too bad that such things only exist in his fevered imagination.
Troll at R79
God, you are a vile, hateful creature. Fat, I'm guessing. Ugly, I'm sure.
No, when I travel I always do that when I'm asked to go through the "pornoscanner". I usually go from LaGuardia so I haven't had it except in KC, MO and Denver (Ithink) but I always let them know that I think their are subhuman pieces of shit. No better than the Stasi.
God, you really do love to suck government dick?
[quote]Troll at [R79] God, you are a vile, hateful creature. Fat, I'm guessing. Ugly, I'm sure.
ROFL.... I'm not the one who feverishly imagines all of these silly "resistance" tactics that nobody really cares about and that would make you look really, really stupid if you actually had the nerve to carry them out which, of course, you don't.
[quote]God, you really do love to suck government dick?
Nope, but I sure do like laughing at your silly fantasies. Keep 'em coming!
How many of you were molested this year?
Are liberals protesting this shit again yet?
No, their messiah, OBAMA is in office, so they stay quiet.
ROFL.... Dear heart, the last time we had this discussion, you posted a link which you claimed supported all of this "hypocrisy" you've been railing again. The trouble is that your link showed that liberals were, in fact, protesting! You've been asked repeated to find any liberal who's guilty of such hypocrisy. To date, you have failed.
The hypocrisy, like the rest of your bullshit, exists solely in your fevered imagination. I'd suggest that you stop posting while drunk, as you just make yourself look like a fool and piss off the webmaster with your spamming.