How Do You Handle People Who Ignore You and Refuse To Speak To You.
They don''t want to be around you, they ignore you, they refuse to speak to you, and they want nothing to do with you. Plus they chat with others, acting like you are not even in the same room.\
How do you deal with people like that?
OP...tell us what you did.
What did you do to them for acting that way?
Pay attention to ME!\
How dare you ignore ME!\
It''s all about ME!
The Attention Whore OP
You continue as normal and let others see that they''re avoiding you. Shrug when asked why they''re acting that way if you don''t know.
Uh, I don''t talk to them, OP. I don''t acknowledge their presence. Duh.\
Are you Rose Nylund by any chance?
I slap them. Hard.
Ignore them right back.
You''ll need to provide more information, OP.
You must make eye contact with all those ignoring you and flip the bird.\
It''s the only way to break this logjam.
I graduated from high school.
I don''t know how this works in practice, but on film, boiling their bunny gets their attention.
Is it family or friends and how old is this person?
It is a family member who has been doing it for YEARS. Plus the family has enables this person, and refuse to acknowledge that this person''s behavior is wrong.\
So R4 I cannot ''let others see that they''re avoiding you'' because the others see no problem.
I go and stand as close as I can.
I WILL NOT BE IGNORED!!!!
The OP, Boiling a Bunny
What did you do, OP?
Stay away, it sounds toxic. I''m sorry, OP.
I wouldn''t treat someone that way unless he or she had committed some grievous wrong, toward me or toward society. Miss Manners calls it "cutting them dead" & it''s reserved for people who should be social outcasts -- like Claus Von Bulow, whom many believe murdered his wife even though he was acquitted by the law. In such cases, the only proper way for civilized people to behave is to shun the pariah whenever & wherever he or she is encountered.\
So why are you being treated this way, OP? What does this person believe you have done?
I know it is TOXIC. It has been going on for over 30 years. Basically it is my Brother, and I''ve suffered sibling abuse from him for 30 years.\
Problem is the family protects the abuser, is in denial about the abuse, and wants to sweep it under the rug.\
So now I''m stuck having to encounter him on family dinners, x-mas, thanksgiving, birthdays, etc.\
So how do I handle his coldness and the tension.
Write him a letter.
Right now what I see is that you are enabling him. You are empowering him by letting him get to you. If the abuse is physical, press charges. If it''s just that he ignores you, let him. Who cares what he does, continue on out merry way and do not talk to him or acknowledge him in any way. he is invisible. Now go live your life.\
If you can''t do that, get help coz 30 is too old for this nonsense to get to you.
Fart whenever you walk by. REAL LOUD.
He would ''return to sender'' unopened
Seriously op, he''s got the problem. I wouldn''t be surprised if it''s causing him more agony than it is you. If you''ve tried to talk to him about it, then there isn''t much else you can do. Simply ignore him as well. And stop letting him have power over you like this.
Throw out a Victorian cut. %0D\
In theory you need only do it two or three times for the intended effect: the first time might be mistaken as somehow unintentional; the second time could be seen --by the overly polite or overly dense-- as a continued lapse of the cutter''s good senses; but the third time the meaning is beyond mistaking for anything other than "You are dead to me."%0D\
But for those who refuse to play by the rules and want to cozy up to their tormentors, there''s probably little hope for this course.
You did something and you''re not telling us what it is.\
At the very least, something happened to cause this situation. Until you tell us what it is, we can''t help you.
R21 It has never been physical, just emotional abuse. I''ve had YEARS of therapy over this and I''m in a much better place.\
I''ve learned just to have a protective shield around me, and just ping all of the slights, dirty looks and hurt feelings right off my invisible sheild.\
Just wanted to hear what other would advise.
OP, you must have some inkling of what his issue is with you. No one can advise you in any meaningful way unless you fess up.
op did not necessarily do something to deserve this treatment, r26. Believe it or not, some people are just assholes and are cruel.
R28 & R26 I did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. This what I hate, when people blame the victim.\
It has gone from being picked on by my older brother to this. Over a 30 year period.
Perhaps you just need to skip family dinners and make your own family and holidays.\
Nothing is ever going to change there.
I agree R31. But it is my family and at times there are festivities I cannot avoid.\
So I just wanted advice from others.
If he was emotionally abusive to you, then not speaking and cutting off the relationship is probably for the best. Why would you want him in your life? Just ignore him back and live your life.
[quote]You did something and you''re not telling us what it is.%0D\
What''s wrong with good ol'' homophobia? All OP could have done was to be gay.%0D\
And that''s my bet. Judging from some of the grammar I saw in his/her earlier posts (unless they''re just typos), it is very possible OP is from other lands, perhaps less tolerant ones. %0D\
OP feel free to let me know how wrong I am. But for now, that''s my theory.
Sherlock John Holmes
Why would you even want to have a relationship with your brother? It sounds like you are better off without him in your life. Just think that next time you are in the same room with him. Good fucking riddance... and walk right by him.
Maybe during one of these get togethers you should just wait for a pause in conversation, stand up, lean across the table, look at him and say "What the fuck is your problem! I''m tired of your nastiness and your undeserved shit treatment of me." And go on and on. Then look at the rest of them and call them out on their refusal to acknowledge his behavior and to tell him he better knock it off or not to show up at family events if he can''t act like a human being.
I''d do it.
R34 You are wrong, and yes those are just typos from typing too fast.
You should have told him to fuck off about 29 years ago.
R36 My family would then berate me for ''picking'' on my brother and making him the victim of my pettiness.\
Seriously the only thing that bothers me is the tension in the room when we are in the same room together, and they way he talks to others like I''m not even in the same room.
R38 If I did that, then it would justify (in his mind) that he is right to treat me this way.
Have you actually tried to talk to other family members about it?
Just ignore them.\
Then one day, and it could be months or years, you will hear that they have lost a partner or parent or been struck by a tragedy of some sort.\
If they die, well, that''s that.\
But if they survive, write a very kind note expressing your sympathy. Note that while you have never gotten along, you are truly sorry for his loss.\
Make the note as genuine as possible.\
It''s a karmic win.
I''m going to have dinner now, I''ll check some of these responses later and try to respond. Thanks everyone!
How can you "not avoid" these gatherings? Unless you live involuntarily in the home of the person who has them, you can avoid them.%0D\
OP, if you''re on the level, what you''re really asking is how you can force your brother to stop his behavior and force your family to stop enabling him.%0D\
You can''t do either. Your family has assigned you the vicitm role and are all too chickenshit to admit it. You have accepted the victim role and will continue to play it until you draw the line. %0D\
No contact, no explanations. Cut them off. It''s not like they don''t know what the problem is. Accept that you will never have the cathartic scene of vindication that you want. There is no way to change other people''s behavior.%0D\
You don''t have to be a chickenshit, too. End it.
Sorry to be so frank, but you need it.
That''s bullshit OP. They are NOT your family just because you are related by blood. Make your own family of loving, caring people. Those people who enable him are NOT your family. Don''t go to the next gathering. Don''t reply to letters. Don''t take their phone calls. Set your e-mail so anything from them goes into "Deleted Items" before you even see it. %0D\
What good does years of therapy do if you''re willing to walk into that den of jackasses who enable your brother to do this?
Do you still love him OP?
You know op, it sounds like you may have a little of the same dynamic in your family that I have in mine. There are certain people who for some reason are allowed to get away with being rude and such. But if you confront them on it, somehow you''re the one being nasty. Actually, I find this strange phenomenon happens outside my family, too.
I''m not a "speaker". I always ignore people until they speak to me first. If they don''t speak first, then they shall be ignored for the entire evening.
There has to be some reason, some issue, as to why your brother treats you like this and your family goes along with it. Even if it''s a stupid reason, there has to be a reason.
If it bothers you so much, you need to say something. Do it in front of your entire family--if they know he is wrong it shouldn''t be an issue, and if they stand up for him--fuck them.%0D\
Say "hi" in an over the top friendly way to him, in front of everyone. Let him ignore you. Try to start a conversation with him again in front of everyone, and when he ignores you say something like, "obviously you have some problem with me, otherwise you wouldn''t behave like a sulking child. If you refuse to discuss it with me like an adult, you can at least be civil to me so that you don''t continue to hijack family events with your immature behavior."
I''ve had racists do this to me before. It''s a horrible feeling. Some assholes feel they''re so entitled...
OP, you need to end this. I am fucking serious. I've had a similar situation with a family member who is abusive. I put up with the verbal harrassment and bullying for DECADES. I have finally come to realize...now that I am 52(!) that I simply cannot be around them. %0D
There are family gatherings half dozen times every year when we're thrown together.%0D
Fortunately they live out of state. But when they do come in, it's for months at a time. %0D
Everyone else seems to accept this behavior from them, and just acts as if everything's fine. I'm always told to "rise above it," "Don't let him upset you!"or "that's just Joe. He doesn't mean anything!" %0D
I can't be around them anymore. So I'm not. I visit at other times when he isn't around. Yes, I miss it . But I also realize that what I'm missing is an illusion. The reality was quite different We idealize things when we are away from them. The reality is very hurtful. I do not deserve this. I need to see about ME. %0D
Christmas, Thanksgiving weekend, Mother's Day, Father's day, etc. I will absolutely not be around this person ever again. If I run into them by accident I always am polite. I say hello, how are you, and keep right on moving. Then exit ASAP!. I have had to rebuild, but it is worth it. Honestly.
R19, you only have to deal with him at family functions. Thank your lucky stars you don''t have to work with assholes like that. \
Since it''s only a few times a year, pretend he died and is not even present.
I''m sure I''m missing something r52. Half a dozen events a year, and when they come in it''s for months at a time? When do they find time to, say, work or live at home?
2 months minimum X 6 times a year is already 12 months!
This thread has struck a chord. 50 posts in approx 1 hour.
[quote]50 posts in approx 1 hour.%0D\
And we''re not even discussing Anderson (Closet Case) Cooper and his gold-digging bf. %0D
OP, you and your brother fooled around when you were kids, didn''t you?
r57, I''ll put money on it!
He''s retired now. He''s 59.So basically he comes in during the cold weather months and stays at my mother''s! He is her nephew. He is not wealthy, but he ain''t broke. He''s very comfortable. He could travel or go anywhere. But he doesn''t. He is divorced with grown children, but they hardly ever come around here. They visit him in the Summer. I live in Naples,FLA.
OP, you''re asking your family to choose between you and your brother. They know he isn''t going to change, so they ignore his misbehavior and hope you''ll do the same so that they can have the pleasure of your company as well. \
Aside from one of your parents stepping up to the plate and telling him to be civil at the very least, that''s how it''s going to be. You either stay away and allow him to keep you from your family, or you take a prozac and try to enjoy yourself.
[quote]he comes in during the cold weather months and stays at my mother''s! He is her nephew%0D\
Your mother''s nephew is also your brother?
[quote]I agree [R31]. But it is my family and at times there are festivities I cannot avoid.%0D\
Bullshit. Double bullshit. You have a choice whether you will let them continue to treat you like shit. Stop hanging around with them. Period. It''s that simple. Shielding up, steeling yourself, putting yourself through this crap is absolutely your choice. %0D\
Either dump the family or quit whining and continue to eat shit. Let them know you''ve had enough and you won''t be around anymore, and make sure they know why. Then stop talking. Stop emailing. Stop calling or taking calls.%0D\
This isn''t rocket science. This isn''t some mystery.
r62, I think the person you are quoting is not OP, but rather r54 answering to the puzzled r59 (who was, in fact, me).%0D\
Who''s On First
Oops let''s do that again. %0D\
To r62, %0D\
r59 is not OP, but rather r52 answering r54''s inquiry
Ignore other explanation
Thanks for explaining that, 64/65
Grow a pair of balls and tell your other family members very clearly and firmly that you have had enough, and that you will no longer go to reunions or anywhere near this man if you continue to be treated this way and they allow it. If they do nothing, do not go and tell them you will only see them separately from now on.\
Cold politeness is one thing; actually pretending you''re a non-person is quite another. It''s dehumanizing and abusive treatment. I\
f they allow him to get away with this then they are enabling him, and unless you draw a line in the sand now then YOU are enabling him in his cruel humiliation of you in front of them.
r60 is the biggest fucking doormat and enabler in the universe.
R67 I''ve tried repeatedly over the years and offered ultimatums. The bottom line is that the whole family is in denial about the abuse. If it is not physical, there no abuse, in their minds.\
Honestly there is nothing I can do to change my brothers behavior or my family''s attitude about the situation.\
If I were to ask them to make a choice, they would choose my brother. Plain and simple. \
If I were to dump my family, they would see it as I were walking away with no good reason. \
All I can do is what R67 said. Go see my family separately from now on.\
Either way I can''t win.
R52 Has the best advice and I''m going to take it.
[quote]All I can do is what R67 said. Go see my family separately from now on.%0D\
No, if you didn''t revel in being put upon, you could speak up (as R50 and others suggested.)%0D\
I live in Naples, too, R59/OP. As a fellow Neapolitan, I''m telling you to draw the line.%0D\
Meet me at the Cove Inn Coffee Shop tomorrow and we''ll talk.
I''ve tried that and all I get is exactly what R50 had said\
"rise above it," "Don''t let him upset you!"or "that''s just Joe. He doesn''t mean anything!"
I''m going to bed, hopefully there will be other people who have been in a situation like I''m in who can share their stories.
OP, why won''t your brother speak to you? How did it start?
Oops! OP is not R59! What the hell, I''ll buy you both breakfast.
You''re a doormat, OP, and you revel in it, apparently.
[quote]Either way I can''t win.%0D\
The only way to win this game is not to play.%0D\
[quote]I''m going to bed, hopefully there will be other people who have been in a situation like I''m in who can share their stories.%0D\
Good lord. No wonder they won''t talk to you. You don''t hear a word.
Why the fuck do you need my story, OP? I already said they are NOT YOUR FAMILY. They''re only your blood relatives. A family would care about your feelings and would not enable your ass of a brother to mistreat you. They are NOT YOUR FAMILY.
R79, please take your issues & put them back under your crinolines.
"Good lord. No wonder they won''t talk to you. You don''t hear a word."\
I second this.
OP, you have to know whether it has something to do with whether your gay or not. \
Are you gay? And if so, are you out?\
Are they anti-gay? \
Is your brother, in particular, homophobic?\
Maybe your brother''s gay and you remind him of that fact.
Come to agree with R81, R77, etc.%0D\
In fact, I''m going to pretend OP isn''t even in the room.
OP=Ignatius J. Reilly
OP, sorry about this. %0D
You have sort of already figured out what to do. You need to relieve yourself of this burden. Since you're not the king no one will be offing your brother for you.%0D
If there are family functions you want to attend. Perhaps you do want to see your mom on Christmas then just ignore your brother. He doesn't exist. Don't talk to him, don't be near him, don't pass him the potatoes, nothing, zilch. I doubt anyone will say anything because despite what they are telling you - THEY KNOW. %0D
If anyone dares say anything to you then you just ignore them or just repeat: You can't be serious. And walk away.%0D
You have given your brother power over you to make you miserable and he must get satisfaction out of it or this wouldn't be going on. Stop empowering him. He is dead to you unless and until he treats you decently.%0D
And that advice about offering condolences if they lose someone - forget that bullshit. People who dole out this kind of abuse do not get the time of day from you let alone notes of solace. Make sure he is not the executor of your parents' estate if so be prepared to hire a lawyer from day one or talk your parents into a neutral executor. %0D
I guess all this anxiety is ramping up now that the holidays are coming.%0D
I have wonderful memories of childhood holidays. That's enough to last me. I'm an adult and I don't need to invest emotional energy into stupid holidays anymore. I prefer quiet ones now without families since most of my immediate family is dead anyway. My holidays are spent at home. Peacefully, lovingly and doing what I want.%0D
Happy Halloween Happy Thanksgiving Happy Hannuka Merry Christmas Happy New Year
The Contented Grinch
Does getting rid of diamonds represent some sort of sacrifice to the gods, R25?
OP, I lived with a situation that was similar to yours. I have a sister who has always been deliberately vicious to all of the siblings. Before anyone starts that shit about what did we do to cause her to act that way, none of us did a damn thing to bring it on. Our sister was terrible to us when she was a child and we all despise her. Our mother always enabled her and took her side against the rest of us. She was very much like our mother and I suppose that's why she was favored.
I was one of six children. Four of us left that part of the country, and three of us had made ourselves unavailable before we moved. We had our own holidays and celebrations away from the family. One brother stayed, but he's about 50 miles away and wants nothing to do with my sister.
My mother died early this year and I have been told my sister is miserable. Her husband barely tolerates her and her children are too busy for her. None of her siblings want anything to do with her. She has no friends, no social life and does not work. She has burned all of her bridges.
I would never wish this kind of unhappiness on anyone, but it's hard to feel any sympathy for her.
The way I see it, OP, you have three choices: (1) You can let things continue on with no change; (2) You can either confront your brother or become more accomplished at ignoring him; or (3) You can absent yourself and refuse to participate. I strongly suggest #3 because I doubt there's a workable solution.
If you choose the third option, I would suggest you do so without fanfare. Do not issue ultimatums because they always backfire. Making a big stink will only make things worse and set you up to be scapegoated. If you decide not to be available, do as others here have suggested. Do so quietly without saying anything. Don't respond to calls or emails. Just let it drop. That's far more effective than saying or doing anything, because anything you do or say will be perceived as trying to make your family take sides.
There are a lot of wonderful people in the world. Find them, build a chosen family with them, and spend your time with them rather than being miserable within your dysfunctional family.
Best wishes to you.
Personally OP, I wouldn't walk away, running away might not resolve your issue. I mean other posters are right you need to prepare cut contact with your family or at least distance yourself from them. But I feel it's hard for you to emotionally dissociate yourself , because if you could you would have by now and that might not necessarily leave you with closure. It could be about more than just avoiding family gatherings.
It seems you need closure and you can't get beyond the situation without it. I think you need to talk to your parents, and be 100% honest and blunt, tell then how much they have hurt you and the pain the situation has caused you, don't let them be flippant or obtuse, they know what is going on and so do you, so don't allow them to run around the issue. Lay it on thick and be prepared to get back information you don't want to hear.
Are you gay? Do they know you are gay, is your homosexuality the root cause? Do feel less that your brother, do your parents think your brother's inexcusable behaviour is justified because you are gay? Ask them and like I said be prepared to hear things that will hurt like a fucker. It might have nothing to do with your sexuality, but there is a root cause.
Even if being gay is not their issue it might be yours. Own your part in it, why do you allow it to happen, are you afraid to truly confront your family because deep down you have an idea of what you'll hear. Are you allowing it to happen because you too feel it's justified that you get it, you understand it all and have placed the responsibility on your shoulders for being gay or bi?
Tell your parents they owe you truth, they owe you an answer, then decide if you need to walk away, then decide how to move on. In a way your brother is meaningless in all this, this is an issue first of all that is about you yourself and secondly about you and your relationship with your parents and family.
If you don't get an answer, then you have no other option but to walk away, they do know it's happening and make sure to tell them you know they are aware of it and you're sad and hurt how they decided to treat you and the issue and they have left you with no choice but to cut ties with them. Then close the door behind you and live your life. You sound like a great sweet person OP, you do deserve better than this, a lot better and it's up to you to get to the point where you believe you deserve better and strive for better regardless of the consequences.
Good luck OP.
Thanks R85, R87 & R88
R88, I would agree with you, except that I have seen many families who continually enable the family bully.\
It''s possible that''s what''s going on here, and that this situation has nothing to do with OP''s sexual orientation.
1) Take a karaoke machine to the next family gathering %0D\
2) Sing "I Will Survive" looking directly at him %0D\
3) If you can''t do it in full drag at least wear a big ass wig %0D\
4) Exit the house immediately after finishing your performance
I want someone to tell me how OP''s brother can be his mother''s nephew...\
Please explain someone or OP before I can advise.
Mama tickles them.\
(and giggles while she does it).
A little tickle goes a long way.
[quote]I want someone to tell me how OP''s brother can be his mother''s nephew...%0D\
I usually talk ABOUT them when they are around. Small stuff like ''I like when people keep wearing old shoes;thrifty people like Aunt Crabby really got it going on'' of course when Aunt Crabby is walking by wearing whatever shoes she has. \
It sends the message that she may be ignoring you but you cannot ignore everyone and that you really don''t care if they hear you talk about them.\
It''s like talking behind their back right in front of them.
We were raised together. Long story. He''s really my cousin, but treated like a brother.
Only way this makes sense is OP comes from money, and cutting off his family to save his sanity and self-respect means OP gets cut out of the estate. If that is the case, then own it, OP, and admit you''re in it for the money. We won''t think less of you.%0D\
If they don''t have wealth, what on earth are they giving you that makes debasing yourself worth all this agony? ''Cuz it sure ain''t love, respect, and fun times they''re doling out to you.%0D\
OP, are they super-nice to you when your brother isn''t around? Is that why you put up with their nonsupport?
I don''t know anyone who acts like that towards me, OP. At least not since high school. I would probably just ignore them right back and move on with my life.
If you feel the need to go to the same family gatherings I suggest you treat him the same way. Ignore him. And if you''re in a group conversation when he starts talking talk right over him. Every time. Without fail.
Sounds to me like your entire family is a bunch of bullies. Your brother gets a great payoff every time he sees you because he is allowed to treat you like dirt and your family indirectly backs him up because they do not jump to your defense. Based on your previous actions in trying to smooth things over with him, he knows his behavior bothers you and affects your life. I picture him smiling to himself after every one of these gatherings. %0D
Keeping your distance from all of them is probably best, if you are willing to do that. It was a choice between you and your brother and your family have made their selection very clear. %0D
If you do not want to cut them off completely, the only thing you can do is keep him from getting any "payoff" from his actions. Your posts suggest that your family treats you well enough otherwise and seem welcoming to you at family get-togethers. So --- have a GREAT time at each holiday or family gathering and enjoy yourself without even acknowledging he is in attendance. (Chew a handful of nails before arriving if that will help.) To paraphrase, "socializing" well is the best revenge.
Somehow I just can''t imagine John Wayne having this problem.
I can, Clint. Wayne only bullied women, as far as I''ve ever heard. OP''s brother/cousin would probably be safe around him.
I like R22''s advice. It''s funny, yet seems like it''d be extremely effective on several levels.
God, R95--that got me giggling.
Thanks R100 To alot of you, this is not that black and white. If I were to cut off my family, they would not understand and accuse me of turning my back on my family. I''ve spent YEARS trying to make my family understand to no avail.\
I think some of the advice has been good like R100. I just have to keep my distance and keep my interactions with my brother minimal.
OP, I'm not suggesting you cut these people off completely even tho they certainly deserve it. I'm suggesting you change your relationship with them. %0D
See them around the holidays,or special occasions, go visit your mother, etc. just don't do it when your brother's there. Period. Tell your mother why. Be very firm.%0D
I mean, is there a law that says you can't stop by on your own, and visit an aunt or a cousin to congratulate them on a birthday, or a graduation or whatever? Do you ever invite family members to lunch or dinner or an outing one on one? %0D
What kind of individual relationships do you have with these people? OR: Are you the "problem" that shows up at big gatherings, because they don't have the guts to say,"we're not inviting you." Does your brother have stronger ties to them? Or do you just think he does.%0D
Because honestly, I think you are in a rut with this "poor me" bullshit. You need to grow a pair, and get in your mother's face, maturely, firmly and just say, "You will not do anything about this, so I am." %0D
I think there is a part of you that's accepted and is used to this. You are acting out your own role in a family drama repeatedly. It will never stop until someone does something about it. It looks like no one else gives a fuck, so you need to see about yourself.%0D
My guess? They want to keep things "nice" and "keep the family together" so they put up with it as long as he ignores you, and doesn't actually say anything insulting. %0D
As long as there are no messy confrontations everyone can play "Let's pretend." If you happen to be there when he is there, ignore him and converse loudly with other people. You isolate him! What will they do, ignore you too?%0D
My point being, don't come here and whine about it, DO something.
[quote]If I were to cut off my family, they would not understand and accuse me of turning my back on my family. I''ve spent YEARS trying to make my family understand to no avail.\
I guess I don''t know why you care whether they understand, OP.\
By the time I decided to walk away from my family, I had given up caring what they thought. One of the nice things about making a clean break is that I never heard what they said afterward.\
If you still care about what they think, you''re not ready.
OP = my mother finally found datalounge
Some people are so toxic you have to walk away from them. Just don''t walk away from your family members who are sane.
Is anyone else totally fascinated that this thread is such a hit?
I don''t think OP wants a solution. \
He seems to be looking for someone who can tell him how to force his brother to change and to get his family to take sides against his brother.
OP, I think you set up every situation in your head so that you come out the victim - this is how you rationalise your failure to act.%0D\
Stop acting like you know how your family will react - it sounds like you probably don''t know them at all. Just take action and accept the consequences. You don''t have to script it all out in your head so you lose every time. Just do it.
I''m guilty of doing that. OP you must have done something. Figure it out, or move on.
didn''t read any other posts
As I have said before in previous posts, I agree with what some of you are saying. And I will take your advice! Especially R106
OP, by any chance, do you have "WELCOME" printed on your forehead?
OP, it''s interesting how you''ve picked and chosen those posters you will listen to.\
I suspect "I will take your advice! Especially [R106]" means that you''ll be back during or after the holidays complaining about the same thing because you have made no changes.\
If you were capable of being controlling the situation or not letting it bother you, you would have done so long before now.
OP might not be the most tactful person, but who gives a fuck. Of course he''s going to "pick and chose" from the posts that strike a chord with him or he feels are most useful to addressing his particular situation.%0D\
Maybe he will come back and complain. So what. This is DL. You can do that. And BTW: Sometimes it takes more than one attempt to straighten out a situation adn get it to a point you can live with. These things are organic. It''s not like getting your car serviced!
OP, while you''re picking and chosing, I think it would do well to consider the post at R111.%0D\
There is certainly an element of that need for validation and compensation in your story.
It doesn't sound like the OP wants to dump the family - the issue is really with his brother. I can relate. %0D
It would break my mother's heart if I stopped attending family functions. She lives for family gatherings and I'm man enough to deal with my sister a few times a year. She's a bitch and is stealth about it. She knowingly fools others and treats me like shit when others aren't around or listening. I despise time spent with her. I just try to stay as far away from her as possible. %0D
My guess is the root of OP's brother's behavior is jealousy. It is so often the case in families. My sister is a control freak and can't stand when anyone else gets praise or finds success or happiness in life. She's competitive. I'm not. It drives her crazy and she takes it out on me.%0D
She's a girl, so I know it's different from your relationship with your brother, but I'm sure on some level she's hurt I ignore her and don't persue a relationship with her. I get along with everyone else and it visibly bothers her.%0D
Could jealousy be the issue, OP?
In my entire adult life this is not something I have paid attention to. If I need to talk to someone, I do- cannot say I have ever been "ignored". If I ascertain that someone I was or are attracted to is not attracted to me, I leave them alone and move on. Is that what you are asking about? If so, OP, move on-life and time is short and there are millions of others.
Read your problem.%0D\
OP- be polite to your brother when you encounter him at events and carry on your other normal relationships. Otherwise, get over it- move on. %0D\
Dysfunction between families or people takes two participating parties. Remove your side from the equation. Not for his or their sake, but yours.
I actually agree with charlie here. Families have vested interests in telling themselves stories that make the world coherent. If you slink away from the family, that will be the story they tell to one another. "(OP) won''t visit us anymore and it''s his/her fault." Your brother wins, in effect.\
Just keep being gracious. So asshole-brother doesn''t make small talk with you. That''s not a huge thing. Don''t make it one. \
Also if you can stay in better touch with family members (except for asshole brother) in between these major holiday gatherings, then the gatherings with your brother won''t seem as loaded. Try being kinder and reaching out more often to your parents throughout the year. I guess I''m recommending a tactical "suck up to the neutral/good people" approach here, but it often does work over time.
OP I am going through something similar at work - getting frozen out and treated in a hostile manner by a higher up. It sucks but through this process I have learned three things - I am not a victim and I do not have to give my power to anyone and I decide stay present and choose how I feel at all times.%0D
An exercise that can help you is to have a pretend conversation with your brother and explain to him that you love him unconditionally in terms of his intrinsic worth as a human being not his personality and that you choose how to feel at all times. %0D
OP you cannot change another person you can only transform yourself. You cannot force people to act in cetain ways. Punishing, withdrawing or trying to make people do what you want only strengthens their resistance. It turns your power over to others making them the source of meeting your needs rather than yourself. You can release needing others to alter their behavior and love and accept them instead. When you work in this way you can feel the greatest power you possess to make your life work - the power to change yourself.%0D
Also look at how your relationship with your brother mirrors something in yourself - the patterns or thoughts that you engage in to attract this type of behavior to you. What in your life are you neglecting? How do you ignore your deepest desires? How do you reject yourself or ideas or dreams? How do you criticize yourself? People treat you the way you are treating yourself. See this person's behavior as an opportunity to be non-reactive. Just be an observer and treat him like a lab rat and just observe his weird behavior. It has nothing to do with you. Just work on transforming yourself not him or the rest of your family.%0D
A book I recommend is Soul Love by Sanaya Roman which is where I got a lot of the info in this post. It's not for everyone but it has helped me immensely.
Thanks R123, best advice so far. I''m definitely picking up the book.
OP is acting just as dismissive to the other posters and their advice as his brother acts towards him. They are two peas in a pod!
OP sounds like he has victim mentality. My sister has it. She goes on about how awful our mother is, how much she hated her, and then goes back for more. Granted, my mother did some really awful stuff to my sister (probably tops any story here), but my sister needs to be a victim in the eyes of other, and this is where she gets her material.
In refusing to answer many of the specific questions posed, OP is revealing that he is a she, and is not gay, and is quite annoying. Passive-aggressive likely too.
I ignore their ignoring me, sending them birthday greetings with just a whiff of condescension, and occasionally throwing a comment or question their way. I want them to think I haven''t noticed.%0D
People, ignore the OP... I can see why her brother ignores her
Well, OP certainly is ignoring a lot of us!!
OP, perhaps it would help to rethink the equation. Sometimes what seems bad is really a good thing.\
Fact: your brother is the consummate asshole. He won''t ever change. \
So, I give you a pop quiz. \
Setting: You are in a room full of people. There is one person who is a toxic mess. The rest are nice and they love you. They also have very small emotional toolboxes and are terrified of conflict. So they pretend things are just fine with the asshole. Besides, because they are chickenshit, they are afraid to cross him. He holds the room hostage.\
A. The asshole could zero in on you and pay you lots of attention. It would always end ugly, and the family would be mad at you both.\
B. The asshole could totally ignore you, allowing you to enjoy the evening and ignore him without any negative social implications. The family love you for it and are secretly grateful because they don''t have to deal with the asshole.
Master of the Silver Lining
or C. stop attending family functions altogether (they are not nice and they do not love op).
[quote]I am not a victim and I do not have to give my power to anyone and I decide stay present and choose how I feel at all times.%0D\
What the hell does this even mean? %0D\
[quote]An exercise that can help you is to have a pretend conversation with your brother and explain to him that you love him unconditionally in terms of his intrinsic worth as a human being not his personality and that you choose how to feel at all times. %0D\
Are you Stuart Smalley? Why the hell would you want to tell someone in pretend conversation that you love them unconditionally? %0D\
OP why don''t you just ignore him back? Interact with the other family members and act like he doesn''t exist. Problem solved without all this drama.
The OP acknowledged the excellent advice of R123 above. He is not ignoring anything on this thread as far as I can see.%0D
I recently ended a relationship, 11 years- because my partner is involved and has been involved in a life long feud with his brother that involves his mother and is all wrapped up in her early in life issues with her marriages and children from 2 fathers. My partner lives and breaths his role as the martyr of his family. He is always unhappy, in pain and angry- blaming others for his problems going back decades. He even went into business with the brother, go figure. %0D
Will not change anything, will not take good advice from experts on the businesses wrapped up in the dysfunction. Repudiates and ultimately rejects anyone suggesting a different course to him, including me. He is only interested in being comforted for the dysfunction he can easily turn away from.%0D
One can only go so far into a dark tunnel with people, even those you love. Otherwise you enter into the codependent mutually unhappy world of their life- mutual self destruction actually. It is akin to remaining with an active addict who is destroying his and your life.%0D
R123 is right on target OP. Fix and work on your side of the equation. You will be fine, if not your brother- but that is not within your power. %0D
It was not within my power to alter the course my X partner is on.
r47 you''ve just described my mom. She complains and complains but when someone steps up and confront the person/people she''s complaining, she defends that person and turns against those trying to help her. I''ve about given up on her.
Charlie, how dare you air my dirty laundry on this site!!!
Wait a second, OP. You say your family overlooks the behavior thereby reinforcing it and validating it. So essentially, your whole family is giving you the cold shoulder. By their refusal to intervene, they are telling you that you do not matter and, in fact, deserve the treatment.
Yet you continue to subject yourself to it. And then come on DL and ask for advice on how to deal with it. The best way to deal with something like this is TO CUT TIES WITH YOUR FAMILY AND DO NOT ATTEND EVENTS WHERE YOU WILL SEE YOUR BROTHER.
How is it that your therapist hasn't told you that your continued presence at these events is simply allowing them to continue their sick cycle; you're fulfilling your role in your family just the way they have cast you.
When are you going to realize that they are all fucked up? And no matter what you do, no matter how much you plead with them to do something, or no matter how long you WAIT for them to support you, it's not going to happen. In order for them to change their behavior, they have to see that it is wrong and the only way to do that is for you to stop giving them permission to treat you this way. That means withdrawing until someone comes to you and says they support you.
The answer is so simple, really, but you refuse to accept it. Sometimes, through no fault of our own, our families are nasty pieces of work who don't deserve to have power over us once we're of an age to escape. It is okay to stop playing your role in their drama.
Been there, done that, know what I''m talking about
Tell him to grow-up and ask What's wrong with you brother? Or, Don't go where he is? Screw him!
OP, you're an accomplice. I'm sorry, but you are. I had this situation for decades. I gave people permission to treat me a certain way. It was hurtful and disrespectful.
I tried all kinds of stuff to ingratiate myself, to let them see I wasn't a "bad" person, but a good person. I extended myself to accomodate them. The ones who weren't bullies were passive agressive slime.
I fnally wised up after 35 years. At the ripe old age of 48, I said, "Enough!" I developed a backbone and realized I had done absolutely nothing to apologize for, and these people didn't deserve my time let alone the ffort to "prove myself" to them.
Now, on the very rare occasion I am at a gathering, (Maybe once or twice a year,) I stay for no more than 30 minutes. I pay my repsects to the two or three people I feel an obligation to, like mny two elderly aunts and my mother, and then I leave.
I can see the people I really want to see at other times, and I avoid the ugliness of people who's mission is to make me feel as inferior and miserable as they are.
These people live in a small world. They are limited, damaged human beings. I have chosen not to become one of them. You can do this. You are not in a trap. There is a strange comfort in the familiar, even for abused people, but you can stop this now and you should.
This isn't about your brother winning. This is about your mental health. End it. Walk away. See the people you want to see on your own terms.
Also wanted to add that if you play their game, and you play it every time you attend a gathering with them, they win. They will not change. This is how they are.
Life is truly too short to waste it on petty, small bullshit people. Don't make any dramatic announcements. Just be busy next time. Or out of town. Don't over explain.
Say, "Thanks for the invite. I'd love to, but I won't be able to make it." If they press you, give them a vague answer and wrap it up with "I hope you'll fill me in on what I miss! Have a great time!"
My guess is you've been hovering around waiting, and hoping for them to accept you, and respect you, and change their behavior. They won't. They're assholes.
If you decided to make the best of it, and rationalize unacceptable behavior, then you are accepting the role they have assigned you for the rest of your life.
They'll talk about you behind your back anyway OP. They are doing it as we speak. So what. At least don't give them more shit to talk about. Walk. Away. Rebuild your life with out them.
If there are any people you care about...who also care about you, see them on your own time. Or theirs.
Ask yourself this question: Who from that whole crowd, ever calls you independently to do something fun? Who among them are your true friends? Could you call one of them to drive you to the hospital? Come pick you up if your car won't start? Run to the Mall or a movie with? Do something spur of the moment that's fun? Call to check on you to make sure you're OK?
This thread is over a year old. Who wants to take bets that the OP is still putting up with the shitty behavior because she loves being the martyr?
I haven't read the thread, but I figure if someone ignores me, it's their loss.
Stop going to family events!!!!!! Period!
This happens to me too, just beat them at everything. Like Ed sheeran says ( i know this may sound wierd) but Success is the best revenge...
OP: Taylor Armstrong does the very same shit to me, but only when the producers ask.
Hadn't the paragraph been invented in 2010?
I want to not talk to my brother for the following reasons: He's a pathological liar, a "reformed" addict who thinks all his past transgressions didn't happen because he got "better". He is still harassing his ex wife 7 years later. I have suspicions that he has been inappropriate with his daughter he doesn't talk to. He is the elephant in the room my family won't discuss. My husband has been wronged by him many times. We get into fights because I don't want to handle this the way he does. These people never think anything is their fault.
..."And don't think not talking to me, is going to bother me in the least bit. I can think of nothing that would give me greater pleasure than never having to hear your voice again."
I like to see someone try to ignore me while I am pounding my fist in their face!!!
actually when you get right down to it with a little imagination you can use that to your advantage...
R44 & r52 are spot on
I tell them national security secrets so their country's police will monitor their every move.
[quote] My husband has been wronged by him many times.
I speak to them using their name putting them on the spot regarding their attitude towards me.
OP I have exactly the same problem with my family and my brother.
my advice is to own your space. you are an adult now and you don't need to suffer his shit anymore and you are not obliged to abide by the unspoken family rules that he can treat you like shit and you have to tolerate it.
he sounds like a pedigree cunt so you would not want a relationship with him anyway, however, you should not have to hide in the shadows because he is a bully.
the first step to taking ownership of your life if to let go of the abuse and take control of the situation. i suggest you go into the room where he is and even if you have to sit there fiddling with your phone make your presence felt.
he feeds off your discomfort so voluntarily plonking yourself down in a room where no one speaks to you will confuse him. if he gives you dirty looks look him straight in the eye and hold your stare - make him glance away first, when he does keep staring until he looks back. when he looks back and sees you looking again, then look away. You have communicated I can see you and you can keep staring prick, whatever. By looking away after him you have taken control of when you choose to engage.
most communication is non-verbal and you can communicate with him your intentions non-verbally just as effectively as he does with you.
His behaviour says you're not welcome, your behaviour says i don't give a fuck. I'm here and you can suck it.
either that or just don't go to family events. take control. if the family are enabling his abuse go on holiday, go to a bar. do something that makes you happy and have a nice time.
do not allow anyone else to define your self worth and value. if i could speak to the younger me I would tell me that and have fucked the lot of my family off a lot sooner.
Good luck and happy trails x
Also OP sometimes telling people you don't give a fuck and they can all go fuck themselves is extremely liberating and empowering.
The ability to articulate where they sit in the pecking order of your life is great, takes a huge burden off your shoulders and is more effective and cheaper than years of therapy. Literally get if off your chest.
You may not be able to change how they behave and who they are but you certainly can tell them to spin and swivel and flip the bird.
I have done it many times.
A word of warning, if you are going fuck people off, there are a few things you should be away of.
You will be burning bridges which cannot be rebuilt after.
Other family members will take a dim view. Flat out tell them they are entitled to their opintion and it is long overdue X was told about themselves.
Drop the eff bomb and leave. Don't stick around to witness the aftermath. You want the person on the receiving end to be the one who has to suffer the humiliation.
When you tell them stand front and centre, look them dead in the eyes when you say it and say it loud and clear so there is no confusion about what is going on. You will be amazed at how bullies shit themselves when you direct your rage at them and stand your ground. You are not afraid and if they don't like it simply refer them to the part when you told them to go fuck themselves.
The bully make seek to save their embaressment by trying to engage you in dialogue usually some type of verbal abuse, this is when you say 'whatever' and leave the event and go to the pub or bar and celebrate your ability to not give a shit.
if you are going to be hated in life, let it be by your own hands.
r155, and what does that do?
I have dealt with this type of mental abuse my entire life. It started with my siblings (brother and sister), and has only gotten worse through the decades. I will turn 50 this year and I have finally reached the point that I honestly don't give a fuck anymore. I waited for them to change, to finally love and appreciate me. I have come to realize that assholes are born, not made. They will never change. They are toxic and defective and I will no longer be a victim and be depressed, and ruin my life.
I'm focusing on living my life and only attend functions so as to not upset my elderly mother. I have my laptop and stay in my own world. I no longer care what they say about me. I no longer care that their friends treat me like a leper.
Living well really is the only revenge.
OP, all you can do is not play their game. All you can do is ignore them back. They are not mentally healthy and it is not worth losing your mental health to an asshole.
Whenever he speaks or says something, laugh under your breath or just slyly smirk.
I too face a similar problem.But with my sister.
she took maximum advantage from me. Now her children are grown up and earning she ignores me
its her son,s wedding now.she did invite me but i know how she behaves. she has done the same with our siblings also. but none of them say anything to her. when she wants any help she goes to them directly and talks. after that god only knows how she is. But none say anything. I am not able to do that. now the issue is about the wedding. If I dont attentd then I will be at fault. I have gone thru the opinions of everyone. so I feel the best thing is to attend and not involve in anything.not take it heart even if anything hurts u there.
Sorry Gweneth, Madonna hates you, there's no going back. Move along.
I've had problems with my sister too, and I just ignore her. I don't talk to her, email her or call her. She and her in-laws have caused so much misery in my life that I don't want to be around her anymore. She has betrayed my trust so bad, that I don't believe anything she says anymore even when she says something positive. When I'm forced to be around her like funerals, weddings, etc., I mostly just keep away from her as much as I can, and talk to other people instead. I don't think that our problem will ever be solved because she is unwilling to talk about our conflict, and does not care about my feelings. So OP, I advise you to just stay away from your family before they cause you anymore emotional abuse. I know that's may be hard for you to do, but sometimes we have to do it for ourselves to save our own sanity.
If you didn't do anything, then he just dislikes you. It happens and may be irrational or more about his issues. Maybe he can sense your neediness and desire to be liked and it's off-putting.
Like some others have said, why do you want to be liked by him anyway? Just write him off. There are other people.