- A voice and talent that can''t be matched by todays artists.
big ole fan
- "A voice and talent that can''t be matched by todays artists."\
The pathetic refrain of every generation, clinging with white knuckles to their relevance in a changing world.
- Agreed. \
Old Leather-lungs puts today''s amplified, synthesized, needle-voiced acts to shame.
- Talent like that exists today. It doesn''t get developed, produced and sold to us in mainstream venues but it''s out there.
- Thank you for giving me chills today OP, in a good way.
- "The pathetic refrain of every generation, clinging with white knuckles to their relevance in a changing world."%0D\
No bitch, it is the truth. %0D\
Don''t get angry at us because the combination of her performance skills, the talent of the songwriter and the musicians remain unmatched today for various reasons, including the lazyness of the current generation (they just do not want to practice instruments - Chris Botti of all people even said that) and lack of literacy (thanks to poor schooling and the internet.).%0D\
Now go listen to "Jay-Z"%0D\
- She is why they hate us.
- "the lazyness of the current generation . . .and lack of literacy"\
You mean like misspelling laziness?\
Now go pick up a dictionary, you sweet old thing.
- I''ll have a voice like that.... after a lot more pills and booze.
Judy fan nonetheless (and Billy, too)
- I agree that it exists, R4. \
I was actually pretty blown away by Joe McElderry''s performances, which I saw on Youtube. That dude has some serious talent.
- It''s so effective because she was a drugged & drunken barely living wreck in 1963 - at age 41.
- Why don''t you go kick your dog, or burn a baby with your cigarette, R11?
- Go ahead reject my point based on one misspelled word R8.%0D\
Oh and rest assured, I am fairly certain you will die before me.
- Art is art. No matter what generation. Take away all that you know about Judy and just watch that performance. It''s a stunning piece.
- I think she was very talented, but I don''t care for her voice.
- And that''s one single live performance, edited together from a multi-camera shoot.%0D\
She didn''t have to do take after take, and it was the "first" time she sang that song.%0D\
I love that she smiles at the end and doesn''t turn into a tearful mess--she walks right up to it (the "tired of livin''" part) and the tears form in her eyes, and then she turns it around.%0D\
Even if you don''t like her voice R15, she''s good at getting to the emotional heart of a lyric, and you can watch that part of her perf.
- At her best, there were few who could match Judy Garland in terms of talent.%0D\
Name one person living today who is in the same league as Judy Garland. I can''t think of anybody offhand.
- Waiting for the Liza%0D\
''I got my drive from my mother and my dreams from my father'' post.
- R11, when were you born? 1995?
- I MEANT R12, Pollyanna.
- I think the story of her life is interesting but I am not really a fan of her voice.
- R16: it''s not necessarily true that Judy Garland, or any other singer on TV, only needed one take for a song unless it was live TV. %0D\
Her 1963-1964 TV series was recorded on tape; it wasn''t broadcast live. Some songs were shot several times.%0D\
On the song and performance: A+
- Powerful. Another great one is Battle Hymn of the Republic. She had some set of lungs. Even with poor recording devices she sounds fabu.
- R16/22, they SPLICED numerous takes and put them together -- from the dress rehearsal to the show taped for broadcast, and back again. Judy was so erratic it had to be done that way.
- I''m not so keen on her voice alone, but I love watching her sing, the way she moves, the way she hovers between pure genius and falling off the stage. It''s very exciting.
- She sweated and strained, all right, poor dear. Sweated from withdrawal and strained on the toilet every morning.
- The best suicide note ever written.
- I''ll take three of kd lang''s Hallelujah against 2 or your Judy Garland.
- I like blue.
- And then there''s this.
- this had me in tears before she was halfway through it
- another spectacular performance
- Lang and Garland are equals when it comes to giving 110% to a song. And they both have a great talent for picking out great songs. Tony Bennett said that Lang was the best singer since Garland. And he sang with both of them.
- Daddy''s gone to the track.. daddy''s gone to the track....
Joey Luft, rocking back and forth
- What separates them is Judy''s vaudeville origins--she learned early on how to sell a song...\
...and kd''s sheer musicality. She has zero stage presence. I really wish she''d kept her gathered skirts and cut-off boots-or was that a lie?\
Liza is the last vestigial evidence of vaudeville.
- R26: I saw Garland perform a 2 hours plus concert in 1961, two years before the TV shows. She did not make one mistake in singing 22-25 songs.%0D\
But, the Garland of 1963-64 was a different person, so I agree that different takes were mixed together on the show.%0D\
Just want to make it clear that Judy could perform at a very high level in the early 1960s.
- God, we''re still discussing this dead no-talent twat?
- Fuck you r39 you disease ridden twat.
- Re-takes were very rarely employed on the Judy Garland Show. They did two filmed performances, one in the afternoon and one in the evening and took the best from the two. But most of Judy''s performances are not cut and paste because her best was usually the first one. Not to mention the fact that when the co-star was someone she liked (Peggy Lee, Martha Raye) they were both drunk by the evening performance. This is all detailed in the various books about the show.
- [quote]Liza is the last vestigial evidence of vaudeville.%0D\
Time to get the hook!
- [quote]Name one person living today who is in the same league as Judy Garland. I can''t think of anybody offhand.%0D\
You must have been in a coma for the past two years if you haven''t experienced Taylor Swift.
- I just can never get enough of the Judy threads.\
They are so full of hate and love and all it takes is one comment to the contrary and all hell breaks loose with all of Judy''s supporters ending up screaming at their monitors and scaring their herd of cats into hiding.
- And I love when Barbra Streisand and Ethel Merman were on the Judy Garland show and Ethel meets Barbra for the first time and old battle ax says, ''so, you''re the new belter??'' and Barbra rolls her eyes and has a look of sheer disgust. HA HA HA
- Liza refused to take her calls during those last frantic sad months of Judy''s life. She was a brilliant entertainer but a hot, drug and alcohol addled mess.
- R46 - Liza refused Judy''s calls mostly because she had become the possesive overbearing monster mother, exactly like HER mother.%0D\
It happens all the time.
- No R26, not multiple takes spliced together, not at all, in fact her show tended to use less tape than any variety show before, or since.%0D
Judy and Barbra for my money have the combination of vocal timbre, power, phrasing, timing and musicianship that remains past and present pretty much the best to aspire to. %0D
At different times in his career, Sinatra said Judy was the best, then of course Barbra. As for the great song writers of their eras, they all line(d) up behind them as the greatest singers they could hope to have sing their songs.%0D
I prefer not to compare past and present. Some day raw talent and musical intelligence will combine again as it did in these two. Meanwhile I think Ga Ga is pretty unique- singers like Christina A, Kelly P, Celine D Mariah C and even Whitney at her peak are examples of pipes without the musical intelligence. KD Lang is awfully good, but she is really more limited to slow tempo. Then there are the genre singers and the singer songwriters like Joni. %0D
To each their own- but I do believe Judy and Barbra are going to be the standard for singers, all singers including classical (among others like Price, Sutherland, Callas Pavarotti, opera) for a very long time. Rene Flemming in a short bio of her voice (career) makes it pretty obvious who she pays/paid attention to as she put together her voice and technique.
- P.S. Old Man River is one of my favorites from her show. The other two are Come Rain or Come Shine, and a quiet song, A Cottage for Sale.
- Sinatra NEVER said Streisand was a "best" anything, r48.
- Is it true that Judy was on heroin, the last year of her life?
- I doubt it because she didn''t have the $$$. But...she took any fucking thing she could get her hands on -- a fan who lent her his apt said she took off with pills he had for his DOG when she stayed there.\
R48, you idiot, they EDITED takes and sections of takes together. Getting stuck on the word ''spiced'' missed the point.
- Almost everybody in or out of show business refused to take Garland''s calls near the end of her life.%0D\
I am not a big Liza fan, but no one could fault Minnelli for just finally giving up on her mother who was on hard drugs.
- But Mama washh really,really funny!
Lizsha ,wearing her Boyfriend Blazsher
- L--y G--a''s name belongs nowhere near this thread.\
Why? Because she can''t sing.
- As Long As He Needs Me
- That is a brilliant clip. Judy was simply the best. But boy, does she look older than 42. Those pills ravaged her.
- and there is this
- That old bitch has a lot of nerve singing Negro spirituals!
- Is it true that Judy sucked off the stage hands at Boston''s Colonial Theater and then went to Napoleon''s Bar and blew the owner?
- I heard that same story R60.
- R60, you''re making me nauseous. There is the story of fan Nancy Barr who had an affair with Judy toward the end. You''d have to be a fan to let her near you that way, she was in such bad shape, anorexic and physically repulsive. %0D\
>>>Those pills ravaged her%0D\
Along with vodka and bi-polar MENTAL ILLNESS was a major factor.
- I adore Judy. But those versions of "Old Man River" and "Battle Hymn of the Republic" though powerfully sung - always make me cringe.
- "[R48], you idiot, they EDITED takes and sections of takes together. Getting stuck on the word ''spiced'' missed the point."%0D\
No R52, once again you missed the point (but if you look in a mirror I am sure you will see it on your head.)%0D\
Without question at the very end of the series her numbers were pieced together, or "spliced" together since you prefer that word. However the vast majority of the numbers were all doen in one take. The dvds are filled with almost every alternate take and available piece of footage, thanks to Sid Luft''s greed.
- Shit. We''ll no doubt have to listen to Kurt sing this on an upcoming "Glee".
- "The dvds are filled with almost every alternate take"%0D\
You dreaming. There are flubs and restarts and alternative takes, not EVER available take.%0D\
- R50- he called he the greatest popular singer ever when he presented her with a People''s Choice Award in the 80s.
- R59, hope you mean that as a pun. Ole Man River is from Show Boat- but you know that, right?
- R64, not sure what you mean- "River" is a combination of takes edited together? No. It is one take- from one complete show taped beginning to end. In fact I saw the show in 1963. You don''t know what you''re talking about.
- Didn''t like it
- I don''t understand why the haters come on threads like this. Does it make you feel better about yourselves to denigrate others? Some of these comments disgust me.
- Yeah, yeah, she''s amazingly talented, nobody like her, etc., but: Why does she have to sing every song as if her lover were tied to the railroad tracks, the train''s bearing down, and only her voice can save him? She''s a little exhausting, admit it.\
And I mean I think her filmed version of "The Man That Got Away" is one of the great works of art of the 20th century, she should''ve gotten 10 Oscars just for that one song, but still:\
Does she need to put the whole of her shredded humanity into every single note?\
And you must admit that it is sometimes hard to watch her, knowing what everyone must have known even then about her drug abuse. I am often distracted by feeling immensely sorry for her, and furious with the slave-child-labor she endured when she was a kid at MGM.
- R72, you're on to something. CBS brass at the time of her show were afraid the intensity of her singing was inappropriate- opposite and competing with all American Bonanza. I sensed they could not put it into words, but implied that you are watching a very distressed woman showing too much of her distress. They thought she was too flamboyant too. This may all be true.%0D
But then that is exactly what much of the best art, and the best singing is all about. Think Callas, Holiday (I mean Billie). Intensity scares some people. I was aware as a child something was very different about her- I just did not know what it was. I also recall at 10 years old thinking how can this person be the same person who was Dorothy. I was rivited by her and agree it is almost sad watching her. In my "old age" I wonder what her voice and art would have sounded like if she was not amphetamine/barbituate/alcohol addled. For one, it would have lasted longer.%0D
Streisand is equal her voice and talent, minus the self destruction. Both are great, so I assume Garland would have been just as great, clean and sober. One can go on- what about Billie Holiday?
- I believe Nancy Barr also claimed to have an affair with daughter Liza. Nancy ran the Liza Minnelli fan club in the 70''s.
- r 72: That''s very much how I feel about her renditions of those songs. %0D\
Garland did recieve memos from the CBS brass telling her not to touch her guests so much. Her holding-on-grabbiness supposedly made a significant segment of the audience uncomfortable.
- Is John Fricke on this thread??
- [quote]Why does she have to sing every song as if her lover were tied to the railroad tracks, the train''s bearing down, and only her voice can save him? She''s a little exhausting, admit it.%0D\
That''s hilarious. It''s precisely that quality that makes the Cream of Wheat parody so perfect. %0D\
But most of Judy''s albums also contain upbeat, happy songs so that you aren''t ready to slit your own wrists by the time you''re done listening. She even did "Purple People Eater" at her Cocoanut Grove concert.
- Well and I mean I'm well aware that Gene Kelly said she was the most talented entertainer he had ever seen, and it's a goddam tragedy, the way she ended up, and some of those painful late TV appearances and taped on-the-street interviews - well, they should all be tracked down and destroyed, no one should have to endure such public humiliation, not even Republicans - and Barbra Streisand would be lucky to have 1/10th Garland's warmth and ability to make her audience root for her - Garland has this way of seeming not sure she can really do it, and you get all involved in rooting for her, and then when she does do it, of course it's amazing, and she has somehow made your participation seem necessary to the wonderful thing she can do - and. . . But there are scenes even in A STAR IS BORN that are unwatchable because she is so jittery and amphetaminized. Her self-destruction is documented on film, and it's terrible to see. I can't think of anybody else whose tragedy is so exposed to the camera over the course of years except maybe Montgomery Clift.
- CBS didn''t like how Judy grabbed and kissed the FEMALE guests, they got letters on it:
- Jesus Christ R79, are you going to CAPITALIZE the word you prefer we focus on in every post on this board?
- Oh, don''t be so dramatic. She basically had a fantastic life, even though there were parts at the end that were sad, but that can be said about just about anyone.%0D\
But when she turns her back on the audience at the phrase "I''ll face the unknown" in MY MYSELF, it was thrilling and original then, and it''s still thrilling today.%0D\
- "Name one person living today who is in the same league as Judy Garland. I can''t think of anybody offhand."\
Annie Lenox in her own way. Nora Jones on her first album. Like Garland, it will be the body of their work that get''s judged for greatness. Lenox is nearing there. Jones might eventually rise to it.\
What so sets Garland apart are the many venues in which she performed, from vaudeville to stage to movies to popular music and modern concert halls.\
We have few even promising young to middle age performers are poised to accomplish all of that so well.
- Critic, spell my fucking name right.
- Nickel Back can sing way better than this old whore.
- Judy was a person of extremes; her excessive touching of guests was an example of that. She was bi-polar, and it showed.
- "She basically had a fantastic life, even though there were parts at the end that were sad, but that can be said about just about anyone."%0D\
Drug addiction from the time she was a teenager. Multiple failed marriages. Alcoholism. Severe illness, both physical and mental. Suicide attempts. Overdoses. Bankruptcy. An early death. Doesn''t seem like such a "fantastic life" to me, unless you think being a famous, revered singer/movie star makes up for all that. %0D
- Judy would have been a boozing druggie just \
LIKE HER SISTER Suzy if she was nobody. Judy had a fantastic life, yes.\
Suzy Gumm killed herself around 1963-64.
- R87, take it from me. It''s not so much what life throws at you, it''s how you handle it that makes the difference. She had a ball, whether you think so or not.%0D\
At least that''s what all her peers say about her.
- That''s an exaggeration (72) Of course, Old Man River and Battle Hymn of the Republic are big dramatic numbers--and big numbers like that were highlighted on her TV show, but if you listen to Carnegie Hall, her concerts really were a mix including light-hearted, upbeat songs.
- I doubt that many of Judy Garland''s peers, who were almost as talented and successful, would have wanted to live her life and enjoy her great achievements, especially the last four years after her TV show was cancelled.
- She may have been a booze and drug fueled mess but she always had fabulous legs.
- Still can''t believe that not one photo has ever been published of her lying in her coffin at Frank E. Campbell Funeral Home. The casket was open and millions of people saw her.
- R-89, you may enjoy this morbid and entertaining tale regarding Frank E. Campbell and Judy''s funeral arrangements. I think I found this blog post here in another Judy thread a while back.
- Thank you, R94. That was fabulous!
- "take it from me. It's not so much what life throws at you, it's how you handle it that makes the difference. She had a ball, whether you think so or not.%0D
At least that's what all her peers say about her."%0D
And just how would YOU know she "had a ball?" %0D
I've read a lot about what her "peers" had to say about her; they were all in agreement that she was a hopeless drug addict, a sad, fucked up woman. Oh, they would say that she could be exceptionally witty and charming and endearing at times, blah, blah, blah. But they also said she was a pathologically needy parasite, an emotional vampire who would cling to someone and drain the poor person both emotionally and financially until he or she could not take it anymore. In the last years of her life Garland had few friends willing to have anything to do with her anymore. That's understandable; it's a survival tactic to distance yourself from someone who is a drug-addicted mess. %0D
"It's not so much what life throws at you, it's how you handle it that makes the difference." WTF? Judy Garland couldn't handle ANYTHING life threw at her. Which is precisely why she became a legendary fuck-up who died sitting on a toilet, 47 years old but looking like 65, married to a gay man and $4 million dollars in debt. %0D
- Rex Reed once said that Streisand was so determined not to become Garland, that she went the opposite way, and became aloof, distant and closed off from the rest of the world. And he''s right.%0D\
Fortunately, that wall has seemed to come down somewhat in recent years.
- Of course, Mrs. Patrick Campbell had to post something inane in that Salon article.
- What Rex Reed didn''t understand, R97, is that Streisand was channeling LENA HORNE, not Garland. She got the aloof part couldn''t project the sex part. Horne was not happy it, btw.
- [quote]And just how would YOU know she "had a ball?"%0D\
I know nothing about Judy Garland but I do know that I am a recovering addict. Tales of my drug and alcohol-addled miseries would sound pitiable if laid out in detail. But the truth is the decade of my life that was one non-stop party was a blast. I had a ball and I nearly died of it. I prefer to live a safe and stable existence but I still miss the incredibly indulgent good times I used to have. %0D\
I bet you anything Judy Garland had a great deal of fun even as she was destroying herself. That is what people who knew her are referring to when they say she was not as pathetic and unhappy as some others wish to believe.
- Oh dear God, R-94, I am not MPC, LOL! : )
- R94, R89 here. Thanks! A very interesting read.
- "But the truth is the decade of my life that was one non-stop party was a blast. I had a ball and I nearly died of it. I prefer to live a safe and stable existence but I still miss the incredibly indulgent good times I used to have.''%0D\
Sounds like you were in a lot of denial. And probably still are. %0D
- Okay, r96, have it your way. %0D\
I still say she had more fun in her life than you''ll ever have in yours.
- Anita O''Day on Judy''s death. I''m not sure what to think aside from the fact O''Day pings to high heaven. Was Anita a Lesbian?
- r 104: And twice as much hell.
Not r 96
- Oh, man, at the 2:00 mark of that clip, it''s like all the horror and dread is coming out, but then that final belt . . and it''s as if her talent wins out at the end.
- She had a great gift. I wish she''d been able to stay sober, however. Even watching this, all I can see is a woman under the influence of something -- the physical mannerisms, the swaying, the intense emotionality... Think back to the Judy Garland of Somewhere Over the Rainbow -- much more simple and pure and, as a result, devastating. \
It makes me so uncomfortable to watch this.
- bump Judy bump!
- Judy bump.
- The Man That Got Away
- "he physical mannerisms, the swaying, the intense emotionality...''\
That''s Kay Thompson influenced style. Kay did that with all her girl singers.
- Judy wants another bump.
- What a mess she turned out to be. Very sad.
- "physical mannerisms, the swaying, the intense emotionality..."\
Kay Thompson''s influence on Lena Horne. Skip to 1:30:
- Jesus, I''m starting to believe Kay traveled with a black bag!
- If Judy Garland had lived, what do you think her life would have been like? %0D\
1.Would she have sobered up, gotten off the hard stuff? %0D\
2.Remarried? Retired and written her biography?%0D\
3.Partied with coked out Liza at 54? Bailed Liza out the night she got arrested for having shhhex in the bashhhment at Shhtudio 54?%0D\
4.Moved in with Lorna?%0D\
5.Turned her life around and become a born again?%0D\
6.Started her own Judy Garland Designer duds and have her own Boyfriend Dazzler Blazer line?%0D\
7.Learned how to use a bedazzler?%0D\
What say you, oh great ones of DL Judy-dum?
- If she had gotten it together, I could Judy doing those college film clip talk back series that were so popular in the 70''s and 80''s. She was a wonderful story teller.
- If she had lived she would have had Elaine Stritch or Betty White level comebacks a few more times.\
She''s an icon because she died. She wouldn''t have gotten the level of attention in That''s Entertainment she did if she were still alive in 1973 and that''s what started the rehabilitation of her career and all those 1974-5 biographies. Those couldn''t have happened if she was still alive, either.
- Judy would have had her last near death experience in 1966. She sobered-up, scored some mood stabilizers, divorced that idiot Mickey Deans (what was I thinking?!) sued the fuck out of Freddie Fields, and invested wisely.
Judy continues to tour occasionally. Judy won a well deserved Oscar, enjoys her family and makes regular appearances on Letterman (they have great chemistry).
This past June she celebrated her 89th birthday at the Carlyle with her dear old drinking buddy and english muffin queen Elaine Stritch. They sang and danced, sober as church mouse's, reminiscing about the good times. Lorna and Liza looked on from the audience, where they belong.
Judy is fiercely protective of Joey and spends as much time as possible with him. Joey is Judy's priority.
Today Judy spends part of her time in New York, where she keeps an apartment, and at her home in Beverly Hills. Judy has not returned to London since that unfortunate incident in 1969.
Judy is an advocate for the GLBT community as well as for persons suffering mental illness and addiction. Judy is the most beloved actress in Hollywood- true Hollywood Royalty.
Judy has never remarried.
- You have to consider that Judy was in extremely poor physical condition in 1968-69, anorexic in addition to her other problems. She didn''t need ''mood stabilizers'' she needed LITHIUM or something else for manic depression. Since she was broke, what kind of re-hab/medical help she was willing and able to get was questionable. \
I see her getting it together and doing the talk shows in 1972, then dying of sudden heart attack. Or going back on the stuff and overdosing again. OR, she could go into a manic low and finally succeeded at suicide.
- I love Judy; but, in that old clip of her singing she looks like she''s tweaking badly. I wonder if she was doing tons of coke or is it meth (Diet pills back in her days).
- Lithium is a mood stabilizer, genius at R-122.\
Since Stritchy is still here, so could be Judy.\
OR, she got it! Could we please have a happy story? You are why we can''t have nice things, thread pooper.
- R121 I think you are wrong about that, Hon. Judy is very dead and has been for many years.
- Please people, let me have my Judy fantasy.\
This is a boundary.
- Because that would be completely impossible, r124. She was 90% better in that Old Man River clip than she was in 1968. She was so low at the end - and everyone knew it, she had no publicity machine to protect an image - we saw it all and it was frightening.
- I know, I know- it was frightening and tragic. \
For the record: my parody post was a response to R-118 as a best case scenario, or rather a miracle. If only...
- r 121: You must have had a momentary blank-out (It does happen with those of us of a ''certain age'') to have omitted mention of Judy''s Tony-winning performance in FOLLIES in 1971, where she originated the role of Carlotta and introduced "I''m Still Here", a song which afterwards nearly replaced "Over The Rainbow" as her personal anthem. She stopped the show every night with it, and always recieved a mid-show standing ovation. She and her audience especially relished the line "I lived through L. B. Mayer...and I''M HERE!"
I like the way r 121 thinks
- More, R129, more!
- Imagine Judy performing this...
- R26=Barbra Streisand
- Whrgth thgnmlk%0D\
- The old broad needs another bump, help.
- "Open your eyes Judy!!!!! Wider..... WIDER!"
- [quote] Judy, I was raised to be charming, not sincere.
- Here''s Miss G. in 1968 doing a slow version of the Stevie Wonder hit "For Once In My Life". Even at the end, she was following her rule of keeping current stuff in her book.\
Even in this debilitated state (relative to her peak) her phrasing is logical most of the time, though her intonation has suffered a bit--this is particularly apparent at the end of the song. She also takes a few extra breaths in what she would have sung previously in one long phrase; that''s nitpicky though (and isn''t DL the place to do that?). \
Her voice has deepened and lost some of the beauty of tone--somewhere after Carnegie Hall but before the series she started belting everything, minus the very appealing head/chest mix combined with a naturally low voice she had in her early Capitol albums and at Carnegie Hall.\
Still it''s unmistakably her and she makes the song mean something. And, as great as she always is, I do wonder what she might have been able to bring to her performances sober. She''s 46 in the clip.
- OMFG. I warn you - do not look at that clip!
- Is it NSFW R138??
- Not safe for home or work without being heavily medicated!
- Check out the bruises on her arms in this clip.
- Those bruises on her arms must''ve meant Mark Herron was beating the shit out her again.
- [R141]- it was after that performance (or sometime during that rehearsal/performance) that Judy had a break down and tore the hell out of her dressing room Charlie Sheen style. I don''t remember the specifics, though I remember she had good reason to be pissed (not to warrant her actions, though). Here''s the finished product, as usual brilliant, IMHO.
- Or she fell a lot.
- Thin voice, but still nice.
- Oops, here it is. Christ they have so much footage out on Youtube is surprising she could fart privately. \
Ladies and Gentleman, Miss Judy Garland:\
(really pissed and performing anyway)
- She beat HERSELF, she cut herself too -- as per Lorna.
- Judy''s Director "I Could Go on Singing", Ronald Neame; "I will play Judy".
- Judy singing: "What the world...needs now...Is love...sweet love"%0D\
Judy thinking: "Christ this song...is such...a piece...of shit"
she''s right...of course
- She cut her face with razor blades and told the police that one of her husbands had done it. Was that Herron?
- If Judy Garland had lived she just would have od''d later. She never would have gotten off drugs; they were as essential to her as air.
- bump for the mess that was Garland. Great voice yes but what a mess.
- Now listen: Judy was a victim. She was a victim first of her mother, then the studio system, then whomever could pick at her flesh. Do you get that?\
By calling her a mess (after all she''s done inadvertently for our community), does that make you a vulture? \
I''m thinking so. Add something noteworthy, or fuck yourself, [R152] (bored at home hating on Judy).
- She was a mess. The only reason you''re playing the victim card R153 is because you like her. If it was someone you didn''t like and the circumstances were exactly the same, you would call him or her a mess, or worse.
- Victim card, [R154]? Judy is the prototype. You''re obnoxious. Die in a grace fire.
- Say something, [R154]. DO, please.
- I find it disturbing how Liza alludes to Kay Thompson being her ''creator''.
- Elaborate, [R157].
- Bot Mama washh really, really funny!!
- R153- Either John Fricke or Scott Sch... oh, wait!!
- Mamma had a way with wordsh...
- Hey, I said Judy was a mess but yes, I have her albums, have seen all her movies and adored her. As a matter of fact,I was listening to the Rhino Soundtrack recordings today. But her life was a mess. I think part of her appeal is that we want to hear all the messy stories.%0D\
Robert Osborne adored her too but even he saw her when she was out of control.
- Speaking of John Fricke, any inside info on why he detests Liza so much? Did she refuse to do an interview?
- Well then [R162] , Heres a messy Judy story for you:\
Picture it: Waikiki, May 1964.\
Judy and Mark Herron arrive with a shitload of luggage, three photos of the kids, and one of President Kennedy which was signed "Love to Judy".\
Herron is thinking this trip is good therapy for the Garland. The Australia concerts are pending. Judy does not want to go. \
Inflight to AUS, Judy learns AUS will not allow drugs into the country. Customs took all Judy''s drugs. Judy was exhausted. A Chinese abortionist gives Judy european drugs, drugs with dosages unfamiliar to her- thus her major collapse in Australia and inability to perform.\
It was tragic and all began as a child at the hands of her Mother. Feel better now? Is that enough of a filthy story, or would you like more?
- "Now listen: Judy was a victim. She was a victim first of her mother, then the studio system, then whomever could pick at her flesh. Do you get that?"%0D
Obviously you know very little about Judy Garland.%0D
Judy Garland created the myth of herself as pitiful, helpless victim; NOTHING was ever HER fault. At MGM she took pills; so did everybody else. Nobody shoved them down her throat. It was standard for actors to use drugs to help them keep going. Judy Garland just happened to be have a pathological capacity for drug abuse. %0D
She was in all likelihood bi-polar, which I suppose made her more prone to become an addict or alcoholic. At any rate, she was hopeless; she NEVER made any real attempt to stay off drugs. She'd go into hospitals or sanitariums for brief periods, but nothing could stop her need for those pills. Her addiction became a joke in Hollywood; celebrities would warn each other that if Judy was a guest in their homes be sure to take everything out of the medicine cabinet, because Judy would raid it if they didn't. %0D
She blamed her mother, Louis Mayer, Sid Luft and everybody else for her own failings and irresponsiblity. People who knew her said she could be the most charming, endearing, witty woman they'd ever seen; they also said she could change from that into the most selfish, nasty, parasitic, drugged-up creature imaginable.%0D
Judy Garland was the victimizer, not the victim. %0D
- [quote]I wonder if she was doing tons of coke or is it meth (Diet pills back in her days).%0D\
Ritalin and other amphetamines according to Lorna. Kicking a Ritalin habit makes you want to kill yourself and long-term high dosages of pills like that stay in your system a lot longer than booze or pot.
- You, [R165], are delusional, short-sighted, judgmental, unable to feel compassion; a sociopath. A sociopath, yes! That''s it! S-O-C-I-O-P-A-T-H.\
Your logic makes no sense- you say you believe she was Bi-Polar, correct? You clearly understand that her addiction began in early development as a child, correct? Then you state she was hopeless. What are you on? You sound familiar, like I''ve heard from you before here at the DL. Could that be?\
You are hopeless, and clearly can not frame an argument to save your intelligence.\
It was tragic; Judy was difficult, an addict, she was ill. Judy was ill at a time when there was no treatment for addiction or mental illness.\
What''s your excuse?
- Yes [R166] it was Ritalin that killed her, in combination with barbiturates.
- That clip is pretty amazing.
- r165, no one shoved the pills down Judy''s throat but come on 14 years old? It''s called being obedient.
- You speak of which you do not know, [R170]. Go away now.
- [quote]At MGM she took pills; so did everybody else. Nobody shoved them down her throat. \
She was a child, you dimwit. Stop acting like she was an adult in that situation; she was something like 12 years old when she signed with MGM.\
As for blaming people, she had every right to blame the adults who gave her drugs as a child, who insulted and belittled her because she wasn''t thin or pretty enough. She had a disturbed mother and a closeted father who died when she was quite young, and the entire family apparently has a predisposition to mental illness.\
She had her own problems, certainly, and she was no innocent when she was older. But acting like she was some evil woman who knew what she was doing from the age of 12 years old on is JUST as ridiculous as those who think she was an angel.
- [R-172]. this person [R170] is creepy, seriously- it.is.nuts. Please do not feed, there is no logic. Rabbit stew anyone?
- [R172] gets it, thank you.
- I''ve never been a follower of Judy and know nothing about her (yeah, I know, I''ll turn in my gay card immediately) but I was wondering - Did Judy do anything for the gay community directly? Besides marrying gay men, I mean. I know the gays love her and her struggle, but did she advocate for the gays when she was alive?\
Be catty and bitchy if you have to, but this is a genuine question from a non-American gay man who has lived 46 years Judy-free.
- You type like an American, [R175].
- That was below the belt, r176, you cunt.
- Am I the only one here who thinks that Judy Garland was a no talent, hag? C''mon. Seriously.
- I love it when two queens fight over Judy was a saint, Judy was a mess.%0D\
Almost as good as a AndrewTPhilly/and ANYONE else smackdown on That''s All Chat.%0D\
More madness, more Judydom, more drug fueled stories of doom and despair...%0D\
Camelot Court Apts. 4B
- Judy was a victim of her family''s genetics - she was mentally ill, manic depressive/bi-polar. Her sister Suzy, who was a loser in show business, was a pill addicted mentally ill drunk and later a suicide. What''s her excuse? She was a victim of NOT getting the MGM contract? %0D\
ALL of the women of MGM and elsewhere had a tough time in show biz and were used & ripped off. It wasn''t unusual, and most didn''t become public spectacles. The gay attachment to Garland (and Monroe) FOR being the victim of victims is very disturbing.
- And, if anyone has seen Judy''s pre-Oz films, she was obviously NOT on diet pills -- she was a chubby pre-teen. Pills for weight control happened later when she was over 18. %0D\
Everyone was on "diet pills" for weight control, it was in the contract that actors/actresses had to maintain their weight at a certain level.
- What other Hollywood stars had a problem with pill addiction? You only hear about Judy.
- Mickey Rooney and Donald O''Connor admitted it.%0D\
Lena Horne was on every pill under the sun, could have been addicted, but never discussed it. Her daughter mentioned seeing all the Rx pill bottles prescribed by Dr Feelgood in LH''s bed & bathroom when she was a child.
- "R165, you are delusional, short-sighted, judgmental, unable to feel compassion; a sociopath. A sociopath, yes! That''s it! S-O-C-I-O-P-A-T-H."%0D\
And you, you odious, imbecilic douchebag, are batshit crazy. A psychopath, yes! That''s it! P-S-Y-C-H-O-P-A-T-H. %0D\
You are in dire need of help. Perhaps YOU have a serious drug problem; maybe that would account for your insane ramblings. But I tend to think it''s your profound mental illness that is the problem. Anyhow, you worship of Judy Garland is pathological and you''re a freak. I doubt anyone who knows you can stand to be around you for even five minutes.%0D\
- Mama washhh a vaudevillian.%0D\
- Thereshe.... Brooklyn Bridgesche! \
And the Bridgesche of San Louis Rey!\
But the ONLY Bridgesche, that''s a real GONE Bridgesche...\
Is the Bridgesche accross the BAAAAAY!!!\
SCHAN FRANCHISCO, I''m comin'' home again!!!\
Never to roam again, by GUUUUUUUM!!!!!!!\
to SCHAN FRANCHISCO, I don''t mean Frischco!\
SCHAN FRANCHISCO, HERE. IIIIIII. COOOOOOOOME!!!!!
- Are we still talking about this old dust bag from a 1923 Hoover? \
She''s dead, Mary''s. D E A D.\
She''s drunk, delusional and dead.\
Let it go.
- She''s done. Stick a fork in her.
- I see the Wicked Witch of the West has deployed a crew of her flying monkeys to shit all over this thread.\
We all know how that turned out.\
Off to the Home Depot for a five gallon galvanized bucket.
- Judy bumpppppp\
Judy ran across a stud in SoBe. I heard it on DL.\
(bitch could get in a lot of trouble).
Lower Class E
- bump, Judy bump!
We need more JUDY stories
- Are Judy''s lesbian adventures as threatening to DataLoungers are Liza''s?
- I sense that Judy was probably hetero mostly. She did not ping. I think Judy craved intimacy, she was vulnerable, and just curious/desperate, addicted, compulsive and obsessive. Judy grew up in Hollywood, do the math.
- Judy Garland visits 60 MINUTES @1975%0D\
with special appearances by Liza Minnell,%0D\
Lorna Luft, Joe Lufy, Sid Luft, Carlton Alsop and Dottie Pondel!!
- Poor Joey reminded me of this kid in that 60 Minutes piece.
- Jusy is among the three greatest entertainers of all time: %0D\
Judy Garland, Frank Sinatra and Barbra Streisand.
- Get over it, R193, Judy had sex with women for sexual gratification. That doesn''t mean she wasn''t straight, it only meant she liked to have sex with women on occasion. Maybe she was sick of having sex with gay men.
- Wasn''t Betty Asher one of her female lovers?%0D\
I thnk I read that she had sex with some stripper. And of course the moderator?? owner?? facilitator? of Garland and Liza''s fan clubs, Nancy Barr.
- Link please, [R197].\
Thanks [R195], I''ve not seen that 60 Minutes piece.
- "Once unleashed, paranoia finds betrayal everywhere, and before it had spent itself, Judy''s rage took still another victim: a female fan, Nancy Barr, who, like Green, had also provided Judy with money, time and energy -- even, by Barr''s account, a brief sexual relationship. Barr''s sin? She had balled Green out of jail, an act that automatically put her on Judy''s enemy list."
- [R200] I see nothing that indicates that Garland was sexually gratified by women. I''m aware she slept with women occasionally. My post at [R193] made my point: Judy was more interested in affection. I don''t think it was about sexual gratification, I think it was about intimacy, a desperate attempt to connect. \
Thanks for the link, but it does not support the idea that Garland was gratified by the lez sex. I just don''t buy that.
- Didn''t Nancy Barr also claim to have had a sexual relationship with Liza when she ran the%0D\
Liza fan club? I know she spent some time with Liza in Mexico during the LUCKY LADY shoot.
- Love it, 2001, lesbian sex is not about gratifictation? But gay sex is?
- Your words, not mine, [R203]. Careful now, project much?
- Bump Judes, bump!
- R201/204, it''s very ignorant and homophobic to say lesbian sex "isn''t really sex" or it''s "just affection." Lots of naked body contact and orgasms -- sounds like sex to me, no matter why you''re doing it. %0D\
Part of bi-polar disorder many times is hyper-sexuality, that could have had a lot to do with Judy''s behavior with men and women.
- I think Garland probably enjoyed her lesbian liasons. Why would she have them if she didn''t?%0D\
But I don''t think lesbian sex was that inportant to her. It was just something different to do now and then. %0D\
In Frank''s book he claims that Judy explained her lesbian proclivities to a friend by saying "when you''ve eaten everything in the world there is to eat you have to find new things."%0D\
I think for her sex was sex, be it with a gay male or a straight male or a lesbian. I tend to think that sex was a tension reliever for her more than anything else.
- Never liked her overwrought, fake singing voice. Cher''s a better, more versatile singer. And she''s still around, never succumbing to the drugs & alcohol like this loser.
- Isn''t this Just marvelous!
- run, Judy run!
- [quote] "when you''ve eaten everything in the world there is to eat you have to find new things."\
Although, I didn''t really like sushi until I moved out to L.A.
- Judy made lots of "sushi jokes" according to one of her last gay boyfriends, Johnny Meyer.
- Link,,,,,,,, a-dink-a-dink, [R212].
- ...He juuuuuuust keeps rollin'' along!
I need love
- I wonder if Judy and Lana Turner ever got it on? Lana was a big pussy hound.
- Lana pussy makes me think Judy might have had some gratification. Didn''t think of that, hmmmmm.
What''ll I do?
- What makes her vocals so special? She doesn''t have extraordinary range, power, or tone - I fail to see why you place her above those who have come after her who actually have superior technical abilities. I mean when''s Judy Garland gonna hit an A5?\
I think older people prefer the way singers like Barbra and Judy approach a song because they use a stylized technique from their generation. To call them more talented though is a lie, there are many singers out today who could wipe the floor with these old broads in terms of raw vocal abilities.
- Take that Goopy! %0D\
A real singer. Of course she doesn''t have an Oscar so I guess she''s not a real talent like you.
- But who could beat this?
- I have to say, watching these clips its astonishing how Judy Davis, who no one would mistake for Garland in real life, fucking channeled her. \
I can also see where for CBS in the 1950s it was just too much. She''s clearly on drugs, nervous and even as a fan its uncomfortable to watch her.
- She was nervous and anesthetized because Freddie Fields was fucking her like a dime store floozy. \
Nothing will ever compare to the great Judy Garland, ever.\
Regarding Liza''s interview in the Advocate: I respect Liza''s ability to rise above the probing of overt, inappropriate questioning from that awful reporter. Liza shows more control and ability in that, than her performance in Cabaret.
- Some of you are really missing the point. Quite apart from the beauty of their voices, Garland and Streisand are in a league of their own because they are great artists. They are great interpreters of song. Watch that video of ''A Cottage For Sale'' and I defy you to find anybody-anybody at all-among today''s young singers who could interpret a song that heartbreakingly.
- I saw Garland perform a full concert in Oct. 1961 in a large venue. What comes across as "too much" on You Tube is very different when you saw and heard JG build a performance over 26 songs.%0D\
I do disagree that she did not have a powerful voice. In fact, she had one of the most powerful voice I have ever heard in concert. I do agree about her lack of range.
- Contrast and compare, if you can.\
I maintain there was only one JUDY.
- And the Daughter.
- Liza.... Liiiiza... named of gay!
- The one, the only....Judy Garland.
- Just how much wear did Judy get out of this outfit?\
Whoever said couture doesn''t pay for itself?\
Jesus, Judy wore this rag to death.
- That dress/outfit was made for her show by Ray Agahyan. I love his stuff. The last (and first, actually)I was over at Kitty Carlisle''s apartment, she was hosting a charity and sang a few songs for the donors. She wore a champagne colored outfit almost exactly like this, very 60s. I asked her who designed it, and she said Ray Agahyan! Kitty was borderline cash poor, so obviously threw NOTHING out! It was gorgeous on her.
- This is the STAHHRT of something BIG!
- How many electroSHOCK treatments did Judy have?
- MORE stories about Judy!
- Does anyone know where I can find a clip of Grace Kelly singing "Strange Fruit"?
- I just listened to the complete "Judy at Carnegie Hall" 2 CD with earphones. I have listened to the CDs before, but without earphones. %0D\
I was reminded again what a great story teller Garland was in person.%0D\
Even in a short story, she changes her tone of voice about a dozen times. Clearly nothing was cut. At one point Judy says she needs a drink of water --- you can hear her walk off stage and back on (seems like 2 minutes, but probably isn''t). %0D\
As witty as Liza can be, she''s not as funny as her mom.
- Pretty much everything Liza said on stage was scripted by Fred Ebb. Not sure who is doing it now.%0D\
- R227- love that clip and the Cream of Wheat commercial. So funny! Hope the Punch Players give us more.
- [quote]I just listened to the complete "Judy at Carnegie Hall" 2 CD with earphones. I have listened to the CDs before, but without earphones.%0D\
One of my favorite Judy comments in that concert recording.%0D\
"I either sing sad, sorrowful get out of town ballads or they give me HAPPY MARCHING HOLIDAY SONGS!!" or something to that effect-- it''s the way she says it that is priceless.%0D
- More from the CH CDs:%0D\
In preparation for her first ever Paris concert, she is taken to the best Paris hair dresser who says "You should look nothing like Judy Garland." Her response: "Gee, shouldn''t I look at least a little like Judy Gatland." And then during the concert the overdone hairdo falls apart in the heat.%0D\
- bump for J*U*D*Y!!!!!!
- Contempt for women is a form of gay self-loathing.\
Stop the violence against yourself. Stop the violence against women.
- Calling women "fraus" and the c-word in the abusive and belittling way in which DLers use these words is a form of abuse that is just as bad as the abuse heaped on homosexuals by the people at godhatesf*gs.com.\
Stop the violence against women.
- What is the story with this Nancy Barr? Is she alive?
- In the 70's, Nancy use to run the Liza fan club. There were rumors that she and Judy were lovers... not sure if that was true or a myth created by Nancy herself.
- Everything that twitchy ham did was so overwrought.
- [quote] Everything that twitchy ham did was so overwrought.
Hon, you're on the wrong thread. The Lady Gaga thread is a few pages away.
- Genius. Such unbelievable talent.