We go a few times per year and just got back from another long weekend. It''s become Palm Springs east. Lots and lots of older gays have moved-in and seem to have taken over.\
I don''t have an issue with older guys, I''m no spring chicken myself at 33, but the entire town seems to have taken on a different feel the last couple of years. While many of the crowds this summer were much of the same, much older guys are showing up. Some of them are the old crusty muscle daddies and some are just ancient. Lots of mimosa drinking happening, so many of the year-round townies appear to be mid 40s and up, lots of sneering and bitching about how they''re tired of the "tourists", etc. (we know several locals).\
What used to be a vibrant, diverse gay resort town has become God''s waiting room for fugly, sour faced old gays. I''m expecting piano bars specializing in Shirley Temples to dominate Commercial Street by this time next year.
I''ll take them any of the day of the week over the gawking asshole breeders that have infested the place. \
Seriously, though. I go to Ptown on average 4 times a year (primarily in the offseason) and I have no clue what you''re talking about. I still see diversity there.
Same thing has happened to the Pines. It''s become a gay retirement village.
Every year there are people who complain about how much it''s changed. Time marches on.\
In the late-''80s there was much kvetching that after all the AIDS deaths, P-town had been taken over by lesbians. So now it''s "older gay men."\
Oh well. 22 year olds can''t afford that place.
One word: money. Everything has gotten really expensive there so it would make sense that the only gays who can afford Provincetown are older, established people. %0D\
It used to be a place where you could get a cheap room, inexpensive food and drink - which would attract a much younger, artsy demographic. Now Ptown just seems like a retirement village for gay folks.
Where do the young congregate?\
Do they just stay home on their computers.
Yes, those old guys should just die already. How dare they have a life of their own getting in your way.
Vapid queens are the most tiresome
Places change, OP. I''ve been going there my entire life, and can tell you that the "vibrant, diverse gay resort town" you describe wasn''t as long-established as you seem to think--prior to that it was more bohemian and arty, all of which was priced out when gay tourism really took hold. So what''s happening now is just more of the same. You''re just finding yourself priced out. And obviously out of ideas, if all you can do is complain bitterly about it.
It''s more pronounced off-season. But, yeah -- young people and lower-income artists have been priced out of PTown for some time now. One thing I noticed -- 20 years ago, most of the older gays were from Boston/NE. Then somehow 10 years ago a lot of NY money moved in. There seem to be a more recent set of older NYers who prefer Ptown over Fire Island. And the older Boston/NE crowd kept coming as well. With a finite amount of real estate, this shot prices up, and the town really started to become a more insular community for the aging and affluent homo. So there are fewer funky/cheap places, and more places like "Wa" where well-heeled fools can plop down $80 for a glazed bowl imported from China for $5. \
In high season, some younger gays will want the experience enough to be willing to crowd themselves 4+ to a room, but otherwise? Forget it.
A lot of it is old bald fatties who bought condos and want to be there to sip cosmos while dropping cash in front of twinks in hopes of avoiding another lonely night.
Or so you hope, r9.
no one''s going to pay for it, so move on
Younger gays don''t need or want a seperate place. They''re all about assimilating.
Ah yes, prejudice and intolerance abounding on DL. %0D\
OP- your view of PT and the world will perhaps save PT from creeps like you. Stick to your willful self limitations.%0D\
For myself I have always liked and befriended men and women of all ages, all my life. Older guys enriched my life and provided me with real support when I was young- not to mentino lots of fun. And now that I am older young guys keep me from living in the past and keep my experience evolving, not to mention they become friends- and also provide lots of fun.%0D\
Post''s like the OPs and others of his ilk in this thread are kind of sad. How some people cut themselves off from life.%0D\
PT town, in my experience is still quite a melting pot. But as you know (not the OP) there is a recession going on and of course older guys tend to have a more reserves ($$) than younger guys. Duh.
Whoever has the most money gets to stay. That''s how it goes people. Sorry.
We just came back from a week in Provincetown and it was wonderful. Sure glad we didn''t meet you OP.
Get some help and don''t forget to take your paranoia meds.
OP, Paranoid, of what? Explain. Not sure you know what the word means. %0D\
Prejudice is sad.
don''t harsh on the OP too much - he has a point%0D\
I live in PTown year round. I love living here, but there are simply no jobs to sustain a younger demographic. Stores/restaurants are closing earlier each year and come Jan 1st it''s desolate.%0D\
Go to the A-House on a February night and its frightening some of the guys you see.%0D\
Also, the intrusion of the straight people has alatered the feel on the streeet. All you see during the day are fat 12-year old girls carrying those fucking Marc Jacobs bags and people with strollers. That store really has caused some of the ruin.%0D\
If I was young and gay (I''m 40) and looked around during the day I wouldn''t return, either.
My friends have been trying to sell their house in Truro for years...no takers.
OP, the young have 3/4 of the gay bars in any major city as their territory. You get to rule the roost there. The resort towns that require $$ for nice accommodations, meals, etc. are for the 40+ crowd with some money. If you''re lucky and happen to grow up someday, you''ll understand and appreciate this.
I wasn''t damning older people, simply making a point that the younger guys, a group I no longer necessarily consider myself part of, have all but disappeared completely. And because my partner and I know so many townies (full time residents), we''re meeting some of the newer guys, much older guys who have moved into town.\
One guy mainly comes to mind, living there barely a year and bitches about too many "club boys" and tourists running about. So you see, younger people aren''t the only ones bitching. The older queens seem to think they have a special right to be there. Unfortunately they''re becoming the overwhelming majority, bringing along their greed and price gouging which eventually keeps younger, less affluent people away both gay AND lesbian.\
It''s really sad.
re: r17''s post about Marc Jacobs--is there any neighborhood his stores haven''t ruined? The West Village is like a meth head''s shopping mall now.
At 33, it sounds like you are really close to being what you are complaining about.
Gays in their 20s go on vacations the same places their straight friends go to.%0D\
The idea of a gay resort town, or a gay urban neighborhood, is completely alien to them.
We were there earlier this week for the start of Women''s Week, and I''d say the crowd is definitely 30s and up (way up). For some, it''s the one week of the year when they can leave their hometowns and just be OUT and hold hands.%0D\
The Memorial Day Weekend attracts younger/single women, but it''s definitely "Bring your wallet" time. %0D\
Even if you can manage to find a reasonable price on a room (and you can in the shoulder seasons), the food is still quite expensive in most places, and the tickets to theater, comedy, and other performing arts are also pretty jacked up.%0D\
So I can see why it''s not the number one stop for young gays, unless they have money, or they want to spend the summer working there and partying (and I know a bunch of people who have done it, and a few who ended up staying there).%0D\
I think there is still a "there" in Ptown that''s gay and unique, but it gets a little smaller and harder to find each year.%0D\
"Go to the A-House on a February night and its frightening some of the guys you see."\
Funny I live in boston and haven''t been to ptown in years. It''s become very monied as people have mentioned, but also sybaritic, and not in a good way. Seems to a lot more alcoholism and drug abuse than in the cheaper, more bohemian, pre-meth years.
P''town in winter is the most depressing place on earth.
O.k., I''m defending charlie for once. Not sure what he wrote that that stunk of paranoia. It seemed pretty sweet actually.
What r7 and r17 said. Interesting to mundane for me, which is why I hang on other parts of the Cape for a week each summer. Maybe the clubs are still great fun, but I never did those anyway. It was the rich and vibrant, diverse, arts community which mesmerized me the first time I happened upon P-town 23 years ago.
First off, Ptown is an awful place, and anyone who goes there gets what she/he deserves. There''s nothing worse than a gay vacation ghetto. Nothing.\
Secondly, WTF, OP? Seriously. Too bad people aren''t dying of AIDS so fast and so young anymore, because now we''re actually going to have - horrors - a huge gang of out queers aging into their 60s and 70s and 80s, and the whole giant idiotic gang of faggot silly billys that roams urbania from NYC to SF is going to have to figure out how to deal with the fact that: PRETTY BOY TWINKIES GET OLD TOO. The so-called GLBT community is one of the most age-ist communities on the planet, and it really is gigantically tragic that older and younger types can''t learn how to speak to each other across a divide that starts at, like, age 38.\
I''ve never known any group of people more eager than gay guys to offer themselves up willingly to the divide and conquer strategies used by people who want us dead.
"First off, Ptown is an awful place"\
Whew. thank god you cleared that one up. for the longest time I actually thought I loved it because it was a beautiful part of the cape!
[quote]The older queens seem to think they have a special right to be there. Unfortunately they''re becoming the overwhelming majority, bringing along their greed and price gouging which eventually keeps younger, less affluent people away both gay AND lesbian.%0D\
No more "greedy" than people --of any stripe-- who live in expensive zip codes. Is it "greedy" or "price-gouging" for property owners not to sell far below market? Should they bear an obligation to slash prices and sell below the going price in order to provide for the less affluent and the artistic poor? %0D\
The economics and demographics of places change, for better or worse according to perspective, Provincetown included.
Let's get a few things "straight", as it were.%0D
1. OP is WAY older than 33 if he remembers a P-Town that's radically different from the one he's describing.%0D
2. OP clearly likes 'em young, and misses the day when young hard-up artsy types could be exploited by creeps like himself for a few bucks. Or plied with "free drinks" until they were inebriated enough to be taken advantage of by mid-life crisis queens (Hi OP!) with faces like Medusa.%0D
3. I know this will shock you OP, but older gay men have a right to live too. As others have said, sorry that they didn't all die off from AIDS related illnesses to accommodate you.%0D
4.All these gay meccas are cesspools of dysfunctional behavior, usually revolving around drugs, alcohol, and bitter messed-up "Boys In The Band" types (like yourself) who hate men who are too old to quietly date rape.%0D
Go somewhere else dear. As someone points out, young gay men want to assimilate now. they don't see much value in gay culture, and would prefer to hang out with their straight "dude" friends in the dorm, then convort around P-town trying to get freebies from a "daddy". You'll get over it.
R32 has a point. I went every year since 1992 through 2003, usually in October. This year I went back and was surprised at how much was exactly the same, right down to the shops and the restaurants.%0D\
I loved being there again.
Provincetown, Guerneville, Fire Island, Palm Springs...they''re all suffering from inflated real estate prices and the poor economy. Time for a new place.
Twin Falls, Idaho.
[quote]Gays in their 20s go on vacations the same places their straight friends go to. The idea of a gay resort town, or a gay urban neighborhood, is completely alien to them.%0D\
Agree R23, and that''s a positive change. It means they feel safe and comfortable being who they are anywhere instead of having to run to a leper colony.%0D\
[quote]Younger gays don''t need or want a seperate place. They''re all about assimilating.\
And that''s working out so well for us!\
Perhaps someone can point out to OP just how tiny a sliver the age range of 21-29 is in the grand scheme of things?
OP, I represent exactly the problem you describe. I'm 46 and I go to Provincetown every summer. I really love it there--and one of the things I love is the near-total absence of people like you. Over the last ten years I've found a set of friends there who range from their mid-30s to their early 70s, from extremely physically attractive to extremely not. Men and women, couples and singles, young and old, gay and straight. One of the reasons we all take pleasure in Ptown (and I don't just mean Commercial Street and the bars, which seems to be your entire experience of the place) is that it's a lovely, mellow, live-and-let-live community where people can go dancing or stay home and read, can hit the beach or just walk in the marshes, can eat their way from one end of town to the other or stay home and cook for friends. There are social people and shy people and early-morning people and dog people and party people and gym people. But except for some "theme" weeks and Saturday nights, what we almost never have to deal with is packs of judgmental barely-pretty boys sneering at the "olds" because they think it makes them sophisticated. If you don't like it, please stay away. The place is truly better off without you.
I will never age! I will be exactly this age forever.
I love it when threads go awry. Not the response you were hoping for, huh OP? Hee.
Thank you r39. Perfectly put.
Bravo for R39.
I love you R39.
If you mean the response of two old queens taking offense & posting multiple nasty responses instead of having enough intelligence to engage in a conversation which wasn''t intended to fan the flames of their own insecurities R41, no.\
PTown is indeed a white trash gay ghetto, and it''s primarily because of all the trolly ancients now infesting the place.\
Carry on girls.
Oh, but the alleged "two old queens" are vastly more interesting than you are, r45. Perhaps you should stick to a venue in which your assets are more valued: Cruise bars at closing time, perhaps?
OP, if you love P-town (and I assume you do if you''ve been going back regularly) then what''s the problem? Gay men who came of age in the ''70s and ''80s often gravitated to ''gay ghettos'' for mutual support and to hook up regularly. It''s not a surprise that they go back (as you do) to places where they have had happy times and feel comfortable and accepted.\
As a 33 year old, where do you go, besides P-town? Are you single or coupled? Do you go on vacation to relax with friends (whether other singles or couples) or to get laid? \
Decide what your priorities are and choose your vacation spots accordingly. But stop acting like Provincetown is other people''s problem and something other people fucked up. It''s YOUR problem. You don''t like it, it doesn''t fulfill your requirements any more? Move on.
In the 70s and early 80s, Sag harbor was a lesbian town. Then, when Wall Street took off and the rest of the Hamptons got filled up, the wealthy straights bought the little cottages the lesbian artists and social workers/therapists were renting. No more lesbians.
If local real estate prices determine how old a crowd is in a gay destination in the US, then all these destinations should be inundated with younger men and women. The Pines has gone down, PTown has decreased, and a house in Palm Springs has lost about 2/3's of its value since the 2007 peak.%0D
For the whiners, find what you like and go there. Where are the destinations for the young if these other places are the destination for old, evil, price gouging, shriveled and altogether gross old queens and dykes?%0D
Silly. PTown changes, the Pines changes- what remains the same? But I have been going to these places for about 30 years now (I am 57, yikes, more than 30 years) and I can asure you that more remains the same over that time than has changed. You'd be surprised by how much they have remained the same, because people generally have fun in the same ways. Most of all, each of these places has lots to offer in the way of relaxation and fun if you are open to it. Conversely as others have pointed out, due to the propensity of poeple to imbibe when on holiday, they are all hotbeds of human dysfunction. If you keep this in mind and give off a good vibe- you'll get the best out of each place and all ages. %0D
Kind of like when you are in your own community.%0D
Your whine is the same whine I heard back in the 80''s. Seems like nothing has changed at all.
I like the change in PTown. The over 40 crowd is great. Sorry, OP. This may come as a big surprise to you but the 20-something crowd in PTown is basically annoying to the rest of us. If you Marys want to get your game on, maybe go to South Beach. We don''t want you here.%0D\
"If local real estate prices determine how old a crowd is in a gay destination in the US, then all these destinations should be inundated with younger men and women."\
Charlie, you know it''s not that simple. Tourists rent, and rents haven''t dropped much. And Ptown homes are largely second homes, or primary homes for people who''ve already amassed some wealth. No one goes there to make serious money, not from a starting point of having little of it. The town just isn''t set up for younger gays to move there and thrive financially.
Are you in your 60s and lonely?
Sounds like it.
A lot of people are getting older.\
And a lot of younger people can''t afford to take the kind of vacations that younger people took in the past (the latter being those same younger people who are now older and returning to their favorite vacation spots).\
[r53] are you stupid and immature? sounds like it
Get your head out of your ass
I like how John Waters is always talking about old queens hanging in bars, no longer able to score ruff trade- when he actually is one.
It''s money. So many people--young and old--can no longer afford these places, which haven''t done much to lower their rates, but maybe they can''t if they want to survive themselves.%0D\
The other thing is that so many places in P-town require multiple night reservations. Sorry, but if I want to go to P-town (which I love), I may not want--or can''t afford--a five night stay, especially if I live in Boston and only want to sped two nights. It''s become a vacation destination for out-of-staters who are taking a week''s vacation and plan to be there for several days anyway.
Shoulder season is how we do Provincetown... you're more likely to find bargains in lodging, and there aren't (as many) multi-night stays. Also, the later in the season you get, the better the packages get: the Crowne Pointe (which is my favorite when we can afford it) offers spa and dining packages; we were up at the Lands End Inn last January, and the place was full: Bostonians who wanted an affordable weekend in a beautiful place (and January IS beautiful there), as well as some international visitors who happened to be in the US and didn't care that they were there in the off season.
I've been up the last 2 winters for a theater festival, and adored how quiet the town is, and how you can actually see and meet the people who are working their asses off for the tourists during high season. Enough restaurants and shops stay open that it's interesting, and if the weather is clear, you can still enjoy the gorgeous light and scenery.
(Beech Forest...where birds land on our hand to eat birdseed).
Sigh. I want to go back SOON.
The travel editor who occasionally posts
[quote]It''s money. So many people--young and old--can no longer afford these places, which haven''t done much to lower their rates, but maybe they can''t if they want to survive themselves.%0D\
[quote]The other thing is that so many places in P-town require multiple night reservations.%0D\
Huh? So, lack of money keeps some people away, but demand makes the prices high, the rooms full, and housing sales afloat. In fact, it doesn''t appear at all that "so many people--young and old--can no longer afford these places." Were it the case that no one could afford it, prices would fall, and with the the requirement of multiple night bookings. %0D\
It''s like saying no one can afford Tribeca lofts or Pacific Heights mansions or suites at the Dorchester or Tuscan villa rentals. Someone, evidently can, and if the prices are a problem for some, it''s not made these places wither away.%0D\
I'm 45 and I've been living in Ptown year-round for over 4 years now. I'd been coming here as a tourist for about 25 years prior to that so I think I know this place pretty well.
Let me assure OP that Provincetown hasn't changed as much as he thinks it has. He just happened to be here on an weird weekend, even I noticed it.
I had an old college friend from NY come stay with me this past weekend. I was afraid he'd expect it to be like Fire Island where just about everyone is a gay male trying very hard to be fabulous. I made sure he knew to expect a truly diverse crowd of both locals and tourists. I told him there wouldn't be nearly as many people as in the summer but that there would still be plenty of cool and interesting people around that make this place unique.
I was wrong, nonr of the people I expected to see were around. I knew there would be plenty of lesbians around due to it being Women's Week, but that wasn't enough to explain how different everything felt from the weekend before. While out at night I hardly saw any locals and even fewer of the Boston guys. I noticed that there were a lot of weddings going on, both gay and straight, so think that had an effect. It seemed like half the crowd at the A House were straight couples in the 20's and 30's who had just come from a wedding reception. All weekend, whether in a bar or a restaurant or even walking down the street, I kept telling my friend that he wasn't getting to see the town as I know it.
I agree with OP that there are many fewer people in their 20's here than there had been even 10-15 years ago due to the reasons others have already mentioned; the expense and the reduced demand for gay destinations. This is something the town is very aware of and is trying to remedy but it's a challenge. Up until the mid 90's there were still a lot affordable guest houses around. Unfortunately, many of those were converted back to single family homes during the real estate boom. The remaining innkeepers charge high rates and enforce minimum stays because the summer months are the only chance they have to make money. Since the demise of the fishing industry nearly 100 years ago, the town has had to rely on tourism to support itself, which it barely does. Most of the people who work here can't afford to live here. The local government has recognized the problem and is soon to build over 100 affordable housing units. Until then though, a large number of the people living here are those who were fortunate enough to retire young, work at home or have a trust fund.
The town very much wants to retain the character and feel which made it a special place to begin with and I think they've been pretty successful. The last think any of us want is for it to turn into another Nantucket, full of glitzy stores and too exclusive for it's own good. There's yet to be a chain store or fast food joint to open on Commercial St. Businesses here are almost entirely locally owned and are very involved in the community.
So...OP, don't write off Provincetown yet. Come back again another weekend and it'll be different. You should plan ahead though and check to see if what theme week might be planned for the time you want to come. For example, next week is Fantasia Fair, whose purpose is to "celebrate gender diversity." No, that doesn't mean it's a convention of drag queens. These are like poor relations to drag queens, middle aged straight men who cross dress, typically accompanied by their wives with whom they share a taste for sensible shoes and double-knits.
Funny, R60, we were there last weekend (and the whole week before) and it seemed just like the great Provincetown I''ve known since I started coming in 1992.
Thanks for the perspective. Do you have any recommendations for the best way to find (and get) a year-round rental?\
I''m slowly trying to move my life here but I''m not yet able to buy. \
Thanks for any info.
r18, I just took a quick glance at Zillow and it looks like the asking price for property in Truro is, shall we say, a little overoptimistic. Maybe your friends should consider renting if they want to keep holding out for a pre-crash price.
P-town will be a much lovelier place without assholes like you, OP. May you have success finding a different destination with other judgmental people like you living there.
Ptown dodged a bullet when the Boatslip was saved from investors who wanted to convert it into condos. If that had happened, it would have sunk the town as a gay tourist destination.%0D\
I noticed that the hotties were absent this year during the big July 4th week, which was due to the poor economy.
I love you, R39. You and your friends are just the kind of people I love to meet and chat with (in person - imagine that!) when I go to P-town. I still love going there every year. High season, shoulder season, even off season on occasion.
Breeders discovered it.
The OP is not 33, lol. No way. Let''s do the math. If he was, this would mean that he became of legal age in 1995--and Provincetown was not then what he claims. %0D\
In "Boys in the Band" Michael says "Faggots are worse than women about their age--they think life is over when they turn 30." So true. There is nothing more depressing than the self-obsessed twink who thinks he will live forever. Once he turns 30, he panics and hits the gym all the time trying to stave off his age (and therefore, his mortality). The self-involvement of these people is so pathetic.%0D\
I''ve always found it odd that gay men want to gravitate to a "gay" vacation place. Provincetown is nice, but if all you do is see it as "gay" you are missing the charm of the place. When I go on vacation, I want to get away. If I want to be with gay men, I can find them. I don''t need a ghetto of queens to make me feel comfortable.
If you don''t like what has happened to P-town, why don''t you try to change it. You can open a B&B and charge dirt-cheap rates with no minimum stay requirements, but with strict age restrictions. I''d love to find out if your business is a success or not.
[quote]When I go on vacation, I want to get away. If I want to be with gay men, I can find them. I don''t need a ghetto of queens to make me feel comfortable.%0D\
R68. Stay the fuck out. No one wants some pompous queen who thinks he''s too good for everyone.
R70: Hon, I''m way to good for you, lol. %0D\
Hey listen, how about a weekend in Seaside Heights, NJ? Just think...the Wild Mouse...Cheesesteaks on the boardwalk...Bingo...LOADS of twinks who are high and/or drunk...%0D\
Would you like the name of a place to stay R68? Lol.
I hope real estate asking prices plummet in P-town. It''s the only way, short of a lottery windfall, that I can see myself buying a second home there.
ranger lol, is, lol! an asshole lol.%0D\
the world LOL
Bravo R39. BTW we are the same age. And have had similar experiences there. I have been going since the late 70s.
THEY HAVE THE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!\
where r the gloryholes?
Except that ranger is RIGHT.
Get used to it. The baby boomers are getting older. Duh.
The insane sense of entitlement put out by the OP is so weird to me. %0D\
I was in P-Town this summer; some absurd twink my bf met was blowing a couple of much older guys so that he had a place to sleep (their boat) and a ride back to Boston. While gross, he at least owned that he was too poor to hit P-Town at the peak of the summer on his own dime.
Use of the word "frau" is rampant all over DL, and it is meant to abuse, belittle, objectify, mock, disempower, threaten, and demonize women.\
Your contempt for women is killing queer teens.
Provincetown has become too popular and commercial. Baby dykes should be outlawed as they are worse than hormonally charged teenage boys. They go to Provincetown and abuse it''s laws and truly do a discredit to the gay community. This was once a proud fishing village, now it has become a trendy place for anyone who wants to say they are gay and trendy to go a destroy property value.
I worked and lived there summers 75 - 78. Had some amazing times, worked at Lobster Pot, Sunset Inn, Portugese Bakery. Metal Lore, The Record Rack. There were two repertory cinemas, The Movies & the theater behind Cafe Poyant, and the first-run one. Hung out with the John Waters people at Angie''s Pizza, Mojo''s, The Focsle, Piggy''s, The Anchor Bar, The Back Room, Omg. Just amazing summers. Best time of my life.
The Ranch, leather hotel BUMP
I''m going there for the first time in my life this summer (in July). I''ll be staying at a rented house with some friends (and their friends whom I''ve never met). I''m 45. We''ll be spending a week there.%0D\
[quote]simply making a point that the younger guys, a group I no longer necessarily consider myself part of, have all but disappeared completely\
Not a lot of people can afford gay destinations, which are even more expensive than your regular everyday sort of getaways.%0D\
Besides, places like Provincetown often require three-four-five night stays, which is a bit difficult to afford. Also, requiring multiple-night stays discourages younger Bostonians who just want to visit P-town for one or two days--go to tea dance, clubs and mingle. Consequently, you get a lot of older, out-of-towners who are the ones who can afford such a lengthy stay.
Unless you live close by and can drive there, Ptown can be more expensive to visit than Europe. During the big weeks, like July 4 and Carnival, the nicer guesthouses require 7 day minimums at Four Seasons prices. You have to fly into Boston and then take either Cape Air or the ferry. \
The last two times I visited Ptown, the crowds were older and less attractive. From 2000-2005, the guys were flawless with perfect faces and bodies, so you didn''t mind spending the money to be a part of it all.
What happened to Ptown is what happens to any place that gets popular; it gets popular.
[quote]I wasn''t damning older people, simply making a point that the younger guys, a group I no longer necessarily consider myself part of, have all but disappeared completely\
Oh no, not at all, when you wrote this:\
"What used to be a vibrant, diverse gay resort town has become God''s waiting room for fugly, sour faced old gays. I''m expecting piano bars specializing in Shirley Temples to dominate Commercial Street by this time next year."\
Find somewhere else to be a bitch.
Nothing has happened to P-Town that hasn''t, or isn''t happening to every segment of almost every market. It''s the Baby Boomer Bubble as it moves through the market. They are the largest demographic, now with the most money, and they often invest in and retreat to icons of their youth. You can see the evolution of P-Town as the Bubble aged, from the wild 70s and 80s, through the height of the AIDS crisis, then the recovery, and now as a retirement retreat.
So, where are the gay places the hot young dumb and full of cum go? Fort Lauderdale, Florida?
Fort Lauderdale is also old-timer city. Lots of gay retirees.%0D\
I am so sick and tired of every nice place in this country becoming unaffordable to about 90% of the population. It sucks.
Welcome to the world of gentrification, and economic decline (and death of the middle-class).%0D
What R94 says seems to be coming true in Southern CA as well.%0D\
Laguna Beach sounds like how Ptown is described. Once a casual, artsy, casual rich and gay, it is now much less gay on the outside although I am sure many older, monied gay men still live in Laguna. %0D\
Boom Boom Room was the last reminder of the old gay Laguna Beach.%0D\
All the Gay Ghettos get gentrified by gays and "yuppies" move in and gays move on, like to Silverlake from West Hollywood, CA
I dearly wish that Provincetown becomes even less popular. I hate what this popularity has done to real estate prices in Ptown. I recently saw one place that was asking over $2Mil for a 1600 sq.ft. property! Granted it is right on the water, but this is insane! %0D\
I''ve resigned myself to the probability that I will always be a renter. That''s sad. My partner & I both make decent salarys in the low six figures, but I just don''t see how we could swing a Ptown purchase. So that tells you something about how well off the typical home owner in Ptown must be.
The young gays don''t go to gay village areas. We go to the same places that young straight people go.
OP (if you''re even still around reading this), the reason why you''re not seeing the young crowd you once hung around with is because...%0D\
.....they''ve gotten older. Just like you.
[quote]There seem to be a more recent set of older NYers who prefer Ptown over Fire Island.\
I know two middle aged gay couples who have bought in P''town. One couple an apartment and the other a house. They all work and are there one or two weekends a month. Most of the time their places sit empty.
In the early 2000''s, the gay A-list was vacationing in P-Town just as much as Fire Island, but I''ve noticed in the past couple of years that they''ve returned to the Pines.
I understand that Detroit is affordable and warm in the Summer. Perhaps you should vacation there, OP.
The only thing that happened to Provincetown is that it became very popular. FOr years it was a regional destination for locals from New England and New York. In the 1990''s it became popular with people (gays, mostly) from all over the country. Even European tourists have it on the radar. %0D\
The worst thing to happen to any place is for it to become well-known. Like Key West, Fire Island, Palm Springs, South Beach and Fort Lauderdale, there were too many queens chasing too few coveted guest house and hotel/motel rooms.%0D\
I''m not believing the youngster who keeps piping up with this we go on vaca where our straight friends go. Why? Why would you want to hang with boring, tacky straights? This generation has no identity of their own, they''re just reality t.v. victims, mimicking "Jersey Shore." Pathetic!
boomer beagle in p-town
I don''t believe that poster either, as I just returned from P-town, and it was bursting with 20 something young men who seemed entirely happy to socialize in gay clubs and venues. Gay bars, clubs and resorts don''t exist because gay people aren''t welcome in straight venues, they exist because when gay people go out to drink, dance or vacation, they -like everyone else who participates in these activities- are also maybe looking to get laid, and its more likely for that to happen when you are surrounded by people who might want to fuck you. I dont give a shit how accepting the straight fratboys I know are, im not going to waste a saturday night playing beer pong with dudes who only want pussy.
OP is a vain boring gay man who simply can''t accept the fact that he is getting older. Perhaps you can learn something from the Mimosa drinking old farts who made it possible for you to be an openly gay man.
[quote]Why would you want to hang with boring, tacky straights? \
Amen to that! What self-respecting gay would want to spend their precious vacation time surrounded by straight douchebags and slutty women in bikinis? You couldn''t pay me enough money.
Yes, what happened to pt. I had been going to pt since the late 60's and it was such a gem...everyone got along strait, gay, poor,rich landlubber & sailor. Now it's not that cool place that it once was because what I see in no tolerance for strait people. We welcomed you but you don't welcome us.
After all of my wonderful times there you have pushed this strait cape codder out and I am really sad about that.
How nice that this thread was revived a year after it was last active. I don't really care what people think about Ptown. I still love it. And I'll be driving down to Ptown bright and early first thing tomorrow morning for 10 fun filled days of sun, sand, sex, food, and drink. That's all I need for a great vacation. Bring on the bears, too!
I still love PTown, but I hate all the old club queens from Manhattan who'v e infested it and created the same sort of has-been, tired old class structure that is common in the gay communities in New York and L.A.
Lots of older flabby bald tattoed queens prancing around eye-rolling, gossiping, giving a tension to the town I never remember existing prior to about 5-6 years ago.
Great town, just over-run by the wrong types.
Everything changes. Get used to it.
See you there, R108.
Younger, professionals who are gay now hang in Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica
OP, The entire Cape is grey and ancient. I've been over it for years. The only way to truly enjoy Cape Cod and Martha's Vineyard & Nantucket is to bring your own party. You won't find one there.
On the islands I see families with little kids, and elderly retirees gay & straight, and that's true everywhere else, too. There is also an insularity I find very off-putting. I no longer care for the Cape or the islands.
Most of the Cape is made up of older people, so Provincetown followed suit. Frankly I'd be glad not to be surrounded by a bunch of hipster douchebags for a weekend or two.
There is no gay more tiresome than the young gay. And I was pretty damned tiresome when I was a young gay.
This thread is 2 years old. Is OP officially an eldergay yet?
R110 = Aforementioned bald, flabby stereotype sitting outside the Crown & Anchor mincing on about how the "tourists" have no business being there.
Don't you have a popper party to attend someplace in Hell's Kitchen dear?
I think ptown has become so expensive that it's narrowing the demographic. Used to be artsy/funky and now it's more snooty and monied. I think the army navy junk store is the last gasp of the old ptown. Boutiques with $50 t-shirts are the new ptown.
Hate to admit i agree with r109. Too much eye rolling and fabulousness. Plus they just closed the schools which makes it less of a real, mixed community.
And the food and the beaches still aren't that great.
I should've noted earlier that I'm no 'young gay' myself; I'm hardly a spring chicken, pushing 40.
That said, it has indeed been bought-up and renter-up by a less friendly, acidic, older crowd of queers. Lots of prissy "real estate broker" types and other former club/party boys from New York who've managed to, intentionally or not create a social class climate I never remember feeling or seeing in PTown, and I've been going and vacationing there since my early 20s.
Yes, everything changes, but that doesn't mean those of us who love the PTown we used to know have to like it and can't bitch about it. Before long it's simply going to be Fire Island north. As a New Yorker, I refuse to go anywhere near Fire Island for all the reasons I mentioned above, and more. PTown was always free of that.
Maybe Ogunquit's the new PTown??
R118, the only manner in which "they just closed the schools" was for summer vacation. The elementary and middle schools still exist, and not even the high school has been closed, although it will be after next year. Stop pretending to know anything.
you're so funny r120. So where are the 'elementary and middle schools' you mention?
You tell me, since you're pretending to know something.
You can't deny that ptown has been morphing from a diverse community into a narrower $$$ demographic, for various reasons. School closing is just another symptom.
R121, they are housed in the former high school building. The former elementary school (slightly up the hill) has been repurposed, now housing the preschool and various town offices, including the Recreation Department. But all of this can be looked up on line. If you'd pull your head out of the bars, you might learn that there is a Provincetown North of Commercial Street.
I'm a gay New Yorker and even I blame gay New Yorkers for shitting-up PTown.
I don't usually go to bars r122, so i don't know where that came from. Your own posts are proving my point: schools shrinking /closing are an indication that ptown is losing its funky diversity.
It's become a playground for rich and fabulous gays of a certain age. The portuguese/fishing communities are vanishing. The prices are ensuring that artists (without trust funds) can no longer live there.
Your claim, R124, was that the schools had closed. Simply not true. Your analysis is based on your fantasies.
The high school is closing. The lower grades will be combined into multi-grade classes, housed in the former high school. There aren't "schools", in the sense of buildings. There's one school, that will house all grades.
It's sad because it's the death knell of a 'real' community and an indication it's becoming a playground for the rich.
Well Joe Jervis of joe.my.god blog is in P'town (for the first time in 18 years) and he's going to see Arimstad Maupin while in town.
I think that says everything about the aging of the town. Jervis is no spring chicken - he must be 50+, right?
And when was the last time Maupin was relevant? And how old is he? Yes his books were inspirational for many... how many decades ago?
This week the "elder gays" will be flocking to see Ben Cohen who, I think, will be 20 years younger than the average age of the men in attendance.
I've been going to Ptown since 1981.
What was once a real, working fishing village (with "mundane" stores like groceries, shoe repair shops, hardware stores) that just happened to have a large influx of tourists in the summer is now a gentrified "festival marketplace" like those the Rouse Company used to build, i.e. the Inner Harbor in Baltimore or the South Street Seaport in NYC. And like those places, you can find a dozen places to buy kites, but just try finding a shoe repair shop or a hardware store.
Patti LuPone played Ptown last week. They said she put on a good show.
Who cares if the school is closing? Fewer hetero families is a good thing.
R128, visitors to Ptown don't give a fuck about hardware stores or repair shops. I think you'd be happier in Oklahoma or Alabama--there are lots of hardware stores there.
Ace Hardware is on Conwell Street. Land's End Hardware is on Commercial -- one can hardly miss it.
And, R129, heterosexual families are not the only ones with kids. Or hadn't you heard? One of the various theme weeks in Provincetown is Family Week, as it happens. Focuses on same-sex couples and their kids.
I personally think gay segregation is coming to an end. The fact that these "ends of the earth" destinations (Fire Island, South Beach, Key West, P-Town, etc.) are only popular with older gays is just proof of this.
The younger generation isn't struggling (as much) to come out of the closet and they don't feel the need to find these "all gay" places in order to feel comfortable. They feel comfortable anywhere and with anyone.
Why is the food so mediocre in ptown?
[quote]One word: money. Everything has gotten really expensive there so it would make sense that the only gays who can afford Provincetown are older, established people.
[quote]It used to be a place where you could get a cheap room, inexpensive food and drink - which would attract a much younger, artsy demographic. Now Ptown just seems like a retirement village for gay folks.
I was first there in 1983, and the locals and regular visitors made all the exact same complaints.
"If only you had come a year ago, it was so much better then."
R134, the food is mediocre in most of this country. But there is now one very, very good restaurant in Provincetown (the P in Ptown is silent, by the way), and a really wonderful one twenty miles away.
Throughout the 70's and 80's, my parents used to visit Provincetown and swear every time that they were never going back, because the town had changed so much for the worse. Not unlike DataLounge's claim of sixteen years of having been so much better last year.
Which restaurant r135?
And why did Clem and Ursie's fold?
PTown went to shit and the hogs ate her!!!
Which is more baffling -- that r135 won't name the two restaurants, or his remark about the P being silent??
Maybe R135 meant that the "h" in Amherst is silent.
The card and t-shirt shoppes for the gays are just as vulgar as anything in Myrtle Beach.
Clem and Ursie's folded because its liquor license got pulled -- or that's the story that has gone around. The liquor license was granted on the condition that the place stay open year round. This was a public policy decision based on the need for year-round employment, rather than tourists' desire for reasonably priced, badly prepared seafood in February. Because this wasn't economically as feasible as staying open for only six or eight months, the management eventually decided to close in the fall. So the license was revoked, which immediately made the restaurant unprofitable. There was a bankruptcy, a very confusing auction of the real estate, and a new fish market and restaurant opened on the premises, staying open for only a year or so. The building is now vacant.
Ptown has actually gotten BETTER over the years. It's prettier, better shops and restaurants, better b&b's.
The people who are complaining are ugly and poor.
R142 still thinks she's pretty.
Thanks 141, i didn't know that. For a while Clem & Ursie's was really good, then they went downhill.
Do they still have that weird boat docked offshore that houses immigrant workers? I remember when that started because it was impossible for any of them to afford local housing. I think most were Bulgarian or east european of some sort.
R138, the two restaurants in question are generally booked every night of the summer. I wouldn't be helping them if I gave their name to more tourists. And I'd be making it harder (and yet imperative) for those of us who know them to get reservations.
Oh gee, r135. I guess I'm out of luck, and will never know which restaurants actually serve good food, because this is kept a secret in ptown.
I was floored by the number of tourists there from Germany, Poland, Russia, etc.
And all the service personnel from . . . Bulgaria or somewhere kike that?
Quite right on two counts, R146; the Mews always strikes me as over-ambitious, if not downright pretentious. The downstairs is a bit less stuffy, although the menu is the same. Burgers aren't bad, but the pricepoint is a bit high for a burger place. Some nice staff; some not. And price tags on the oil paintings in the men's room.
I think a lot of you have lost sight of the fact that people today who are in their 40's and 50's (and even into their 60's) came of age during the hippie era and went to concerts featuring Janis Joplin and Big Brother and the Holding Company, the Grateful Dead, etc. Most of them would not be interested in sitting around in a piano bar listening to Judy Garland impersonators.
R149: No, those people are in their 60s, the same age as the great swell of gay Judy fans.
Improbable as it may seem, all of those performers were big at exactly the same time Judy Garland's "gay icon" status arose.
I never found drag queen shows (which have always been prevalent in PTown) very good. Lady Bunny is good but that's about it. The cabaret singers in town are all terrible. I remember the Post Office Cafe had Lee Carol & The Burgandies (a lesbo rock cover band), they were fun and pretty good. Real partiers offstage, too. They played around New England.
R152, Varla Jean puts on an excellent show. She is very funny and talented. I've heard that Miss Ritchfield puts on a good show, too.
If you can find what you like there what possible difference would it make to you whom else is enjoying one of the only places on he planet we can vacation and be ourselves? I'm 48 and although I don't go that much (and never over night), I have many memories made there when I was 18-28 spending lots of time there - loving the galleries and meeting artists and finding love and solitude and acceptance - you are going to be old someday you know and see how painful it is to be discarded.
Well, I wish I were in Ptown this summer...can't afford it during high season. I'd like to see David Drake's new show (his Tawny Heatherton character) as well as the production of The Divine Sister he directed.
Patti LuPone was there a couple weeks ago.
Have there been any celebrity sitings this summer? I used to always see several of the Queer Eye guys, Anderson Cooper, Marc Jacobs, Lance Bass, John Waters, Reichen, Chip, Barry Diller and DVF, and a few soap opera hunks.
r154, it's different from when you were 18-28, because the place is so much more expensive than it was then. The artsy funky 'free' vibe is very monied and snooty now. Still a great place but the demographic shift is sad IMO. I miss the old school places like Fat Jack's.
Is the head shop with the murals still on commercial street?
OP, there's a great deal more to having no issue with older gays that merely saying you don't have one, especially when everything else the fuck you say makes clear that you have more than an issue with older gays; in fact, they freak you out.
Where the fuck do you think you'll go to live or have a vacation when you get older? Do you think you should be relegated to a ghetto for old gay people, somewhere where younger people won't have to look at you?
R157, the head shop (Shop Therapy) is still on Commercial, but moved a bit closer to the center this season.
"I miss the old school places like Fat Jack's."
Please say it ain't so! When did this happen? One of the few places that stayed open year round IIRC.
If you're tired of the Mews - though it's still one of my favorites, I'm not sure I could argue the criticisms - try 'Dalla Cucina', one of the most authentic Italian restaurants this Italian has ever been in. (It's in the spot where 'Chesters' was, and then '404'.) Also has late night drinks, noshes, and music.
'Victor's' is very old school A-List but the food is good. Though when they say small plates, they MEAN small plates.
'Seafood Grille at the Waterford' is good - also cheaper (relatively) and less stuffy. Good people watching on the front walk. Their pizzas (around $12 and up) are very good. Not particularly Italian, but still worth trying. The Gorgonzola & Fig is my favorite.
'Red Inn' is great for early afternoon cocktails on the water.
'Lucky Dog' has the best hotdogs you'll ever eat. Lots of toppings to choose from.
There are still many other relatively cheap places to eat. They really do exist. And if you're renting a place for the week rather than staying at a B&B, there's always 'Stop & Shop'.
R161, is Front Street still good? It used to be one of the top spots in town.
What about Lorraine's and Edwige by Night?
I didn't realize that The Commons restaurant closed and became the Seafood Grille.
Does anybody remember the name of the popular Italian restaurant near the Boatslip that closed several years ago? And what is the name of the upscale restaurant next door to the Boatslip?
As an ancient and elderly gay, here is my story:
My first time in Provincetown was in 1977. I went there when I was 18 and my BF was 21. We booked the cheapest room possible in town. It was on the top floor of one of the guest houses on Commercial Street near the Boatslip. I can't remember the name of the guest house but it was about 2 or 3 buildings to the left of the White Wind Inn. I walked by this house recently and the top floor now looks to be marketed as a sea view room.
This was when there were still rooms for young people that were still affordable. We walked around town, never took a taxi, bought our food at the grocery store but that didn't matter to us. We just wanted to be there. We had a great time and could afford it at the time after we saved up all year.
I've never eaten at 'Front Street'. No particular reason, just haven't yet, and it is very popular.
Lorraine's and Edwige are still there.
'Commons' closed - uh - three years ago, now. New owners that have supposedly renovated the "inn" part, though I've never been in it. Two winters ago they tried staying open in the off-season (there are very few restaurants that do) but it wasn't feasible. The food is good and the people working there are very nice.
Not familiar with the Italian restaurant by the Boatslip. May be before my time.
As for the upscale restaurant, do you mean 'Jimmy's Hideaway'? Next to 'Bubala's'? It gets raves though I think it's mediocre, but that's just my taste.
They turned 'Enzo's' into a burger place -'Local 186' - and stuck a huge porch on the front of the building that may be historically "correct" but is way too big for the property. Same people that own 'Bubala's" and 'Spritus'. No one here quite gets why they made the change. 'Enzo's' food was good, but they may have been losing money. I don't know how long $15-$20 burgers will last. But you can get fries cooked in duck fat there. Duck fat is supposedly healthier, but it also seems to have become trendy in restaurants. Haven't been there yet to experiment.
That's more than you asked...
The one next to the Boatslip was Martin House. There hasn't been a restaurant at that site in many years.
Edwige at Night has a different chef and menu this year, but I didn't try it. Anyone know if it has held up to the previous crew?
What do you think about the Lobster Pot? It's touristy, but seems to be the most popular spot in town.
Astonishingly, the Lobster Pot is not bad, but they don't take reservations, and they warn that they're usually full by 5:30, and that there's a line thereafter.
I've seen the changes to PTOWN's fun side since I was a kid in the 1980s, firsthand.
I am saddened and yet hopeful that we can do something about the trend that now sees a broader mix of folks coming to PTOWN - but absent the cute men. The upside is that the mix of folks which now includes numerous Lesbians, Jamaicans and Rich White folks taking hold, is that they actually care about the town and are mostly friendly people.
The demographics of Provincetown are not so much natural evolution as it was driven by opportunists. Some might say there has been a bit of nasty goings on behind the scenes - that nobody seems to confront - which jaded the young men out of town and left us with what we have now.
I feel that the town leaders know whats going on and they are simply putting the tourist economy ahead of catering to any one group.
A lot of comments on this thread are accurate, but no one seems to address the agendas of other groups that are doing more to push out the men.
(1.) The guilty parties really do include the LESBIANS who are organized and determined to make this town their own. I can attest, though, that Most Lesbians I've met are AWESOME! and have the biggest hearts.. especially with kids. But many gay men find the way Lesbians dress, behave and bring kids to town, to be an affront.
(2.) The GAY MEN, being complacent and weak (there I said it), for the most part, are giving up Ptown all too easily.
(3.) The REALTORS who carpetbagged from NYC are dedicated to making this a 'boutique' town with million dollar studios as the norm. They are not helping the young men who'd come here.
(4.) The NATIONAL SEASHORE people have been fencing off all the 'fun spots' that wrap around the town and are patrolling the beach in such a way that only makes the hot guys feel like their in Nazi Germany. Apparently, the Rangers' vision for Ptown is to cater to families from Kansas by making the beach less "St. Tropez-esque" ... a.k.a less 'sexy'. Thats not helping the gay tourist. On the other hand, the PARK people put up a better bike parking system near the entrance to the moors popular with the gay beach goers. But they are tearing down the cruisy bath-house.
(5.) PTOWN has been featured on the Travel Channel -and THAT level of advertisement brought in the "Midwestern" family types... which is what most gay men came here to avoid.
(6.) The town leaders, not seeing gay men as a hot enough commodity, might be filled with reasonable people who just want a normal town with a feasible budget - so they put out policies that took away much of the risky intrigue and other fun reasons why gay men come here - such as 'no strippers' .. no sexy store displays .. etc. See # (5.)
But after all I've said here, I can attest I still do see many many gorgeous men (with the usual attitude, of course) walking around town in the summer. They bring us 'eye candy', but not much more, unless they buy a shirt.
Its a conundrum because the internet allows to see such 'eye candy' without having to fight Rte. 6 traffic.
These are only SOME of the reasons explaining "What Happened to Provincetown".
If you don't like Provincetown try New Hope or Rehoboth Beach or Key West or even Hillcrest in San Diego. Don't complain when there is nothing to complain about.
[quote]I think a lot of you have lost sight of the fact that people today who are in their 40's and 50's (and even into their 60's) came of age during the hippie era and went to concerts featuring Janis Joplin and Big Brother and the Holding Company, the Grateful Dead, etc.
What? What is wrong with you? Do you have amnesia or a learning disability? I'm 43 and all the bands you list peaked 20 years before I "came of age". I wasn't even born when those acts got started. I came of age in the 80s, people currently in their 50s came of age in the 70s. It's simple math.
And I've never seen a "Judy Garland impersonator" in Ptown. Your whole post is nutty.
[quote]Jamaicans and Rich White folks taking hold, is that they actually care about the town and are mostly friendly people.
Jamaicans are the most homophobic and dangerous assholes on the planet R169. You are FOS.
Maybe the economy is such that older queers are better able to afford being there.
People find somewhere they like, they stay, time passes.
There's even a name for it: a Naturally Occurring Retirement Community.
But R169, you and I are just as adorable as we were in the 80's. What happened to all of those other guys?
There have been news reports of Gays calling for Boycotts of Ptown in the past due to things like Police Brutality there.
Some get miffed over the way the town has changed ... and call for a boycott.
Some get miffed by the Chamber of Commerce advertising Cape Cod and consequently have to deal with more 'family' types coming to town ... GayMart closes and ... another call for a boycott.
C'mon guys - BOYCOTTING is not the answer. Its not as if Ptown is short on tourists or people looking to fill your vacancy.
Ignore the boycotts and double up on coming to Ptown. Thats the way to protest this town.
Oh yeah. And if you are a cute guy. Please don't walk so fast when you strut down Commercial street.
RE: But [R169], you and I are just as adorable as we were in the 80's. What happened to all of those other guys?
Haha cute. I didn't reach an adorable age until the 2000s.
RE: "If you don't like Provincetown try New Hope or Rehoboth Beach or Key West or even Hillcrest in San Diego. Don't complain when there is nothing to complain about."
by: anon reply 170 10/26/2012 @ 02:46AM
Right. There is nothing to complain about. #169 is just listing the maneuvers by certain forces, that have made Provincetown a bit less of a playground for gaymen.
There was a time, (before the lesbians took over Herring Cove around 1995, with tactics that included building bonfires at sunset and forming drumming circles to entice the womyn spirit from hither + yon.
There was a time when gay men could walk from their car, practically, if not completely nude, and settle down on the beach adjacent the parking lot and nobody bothered them.
I've not been there, but I do like Jon Loomis's mystery series set there, featuring straight detective Frank Coffin, and his gay partner, Lola Winters: High Season, Mating Season, and Fire Season.
"I'm no spring chicken myself at 33"...
Sweet pea, you are probably being set up for a tour at a home by people that love you.
I think the bottom line is that the real estate prices, which are in the stratosphere at the moment, are what is destroying Ptown. Ordinary people can't afford it any more, so now it's just the top 1% who can afford to buy. I predict that Ptown will be a lot more like Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket in the near future. Which is sad indeed.
Martha's Vineyard has actually had a bit of a crash, in the low/mid end of the market.
yeah, fuck, OP, back in the day so many old guys were either dead or married to some woman and not cramping your style in P-Town. I know it's a real drag for you that there is a thriving population of mature, out gay men. It really sucks to be you.
re: "I think the bottom line is that the real estate prices, which are in the stratosphere at the moment, are what is destroying Ptown. Ordinary people can't afford it any more, so now it's just the top 1% who can afford to buy. I predict that Ptown will be a lot more like Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket in the near future. Which is sad indeed.
by: Anonymous reply 182 10/26/2012 @ 06:13PM "
That is VERY true of course. A boutique town, which always seems to follow after the gay men gentrify any ghetto.
But I have to wonder:
(1.) About the concerted efforts by certain groups who are organized and now buy up properties en-mass to provide housing to their own sort.
(2.) How are the Jamaicans, who are not even citizens, finding places to live while the locals are being priced out?
Facebook has "Provincetown For Women", ... but hardly anyone realizes there is a "Provincetown for Men", too.
r185 - I hope someone answers your questions.
I'm wondering why, as I wondered before, why gays/lez/etc don't move into the gayborhoods of Detroit (cheap!) and Ohio (important politically). Places like Ptown are redundant in that state.
Because, unlike Ohio and Detroit, Provincetown is geographically and physically beautiful in ways those places could not hope to be.
[quote]I'm no spring chicken myself at 33
You are seriously fucked in the head. You're thirty fucking three.
Jesus. Get out of the ghetto, it's going to ruin you.
To Reply #188
Thank You for saying that.
I am going up to Provincetown today to soak me up some of that beauty.
Hmm. Very interesting points here. I kind of like the idea of gays setting up communities in Detroit and Ohio. But since there are already gays there, by birth or jobs; not-so-much by choice ... and life is to short to suffer in such places - for the greater good. Gays are not 'Mother Teresa' like that.
See. Provincetown attracted artists of all sorts pretty much after its Fishing Industry heydey 100 years ago. It was men AND women who came here to enrich their talents in art, writing, acting .. you name it - its a town of freedom and free thinking. Even now , we can't go back on this history of enlightenment.
Sounds like I am equating artists with gays but guess what ... many artists don't even know if they are gay or not. ahem.
But think of it. Maybe the rest of our planet is catching up to Provincetown and so that lone spirit of 'being freeing as our founders hoped" .. is not just there anymore.
"Freedom like no-where else" is evolving toward "Freedom like everywhere else". How is that bad thing?
Sad thing is though, r191, is that the artsy/free feel at the outer reaches of the cape you describe has morphed into moneyed and upscale. Unlike a few decades ago, unless you have a trust fund, it's near impossible to live in ptown and write/paint, even if you work on the side.
They just lost the high school too, which nudges it further from the real, vibrant, diverse community it was and more toward an exclusive party ghetto.
So there we have it. Provincetown sold its Soul to the highest bidder.
Resist! Resist! .. but is it too late to resist?
- - - - - -
I propose that we should put "Soul" (in the case of Ptown - "Artists and Free-Thinkers") .. on the endangered species list. So, like the Dune Shacks, we can protect them from being bull-dozed out of town by the National Seashore People.. (Who are these people? Are they and the 1%ers in cahoots with making Ptown a place only for the rich?)
I love it.
The Conservationists rope off areas on the beach to protect and preserve the Piping Plovers. Now they'll have to buy more rope to protect and preserve the artists and free thinkers in Provincetown.
Oh my god, OP. Don't you understand? Partying in P-town was popular among a certain gay generation. Guess what? That generation is old now. Yeah, there may be some young gays going up there and having fun. But it is not the vacation spot for the younger gay generation. There are too many places that now embrace, even market themselves, to the gay community. There are more choices now than ever. But P-town is still popular with that particular generation, the ones who were in their early 20s in the 1970s and 80s.
Jeez, dude. You're old. It's funny that you haven't put it together yet.
I keep hearing that Ptown is filling up with old retired, money-bagged queens who had their day back in the '70s and '80s ... bla bla bla.
Thats a realtor's dream - but its not fulfilled in Ptown atm. I don't see it. The old men I see are craggily old fishermen who are leftovers from Ptown's fishing industry .. (which is admirable and that goes without saying)
There are just as many young and handsome men as ever (which is not saying much, actually). But its harder to find them since the 'bears and the dikes' forced those pesky theme weeks down our throat nowadays.
Who-ever is in charge of scheduling these 'theme weeks' and weekends must have it in for cute gay men because the closest thing we have to "male model" week is "circuit party week" .. and umm .. when is that?
R196, circuit party week in Provincetown is either the week before or after July 4; I can't remember. Those boys are an annoyance, and I try to block them out.
Wow, R192! I had no idea that Ptown lost its High School?!! That's sad. It's like Ptown is a shell of its former self. A very shiny, expensive, exclusive shell.
R196, you really are the life of the party, aren't you! Or at least you believe yourself to be.
This thread was started two years ago, and I'm sad to inform you all that recently, OP died of old age.
Just think what it'll look like after the blizt-o-cane
[R199}, No. I don't want to be the life of any party. I just like seeing cute guys around town to balance things out. They are not always the half naked, sex fiend, bug-a-boos under a dock.
I dunno who or what is this OP person people keep referring to. I am new to this forum. I like it to be interesting so I can share it on my Facebook page of naked men.
Provincetown did not lose its high school It's phasing out its high school. The last class of seniors will graduate in June.
As it happens, the population of the other schools is increasing.
Bulletin (I knew that you were concerned):
The enrollment of the Provincetown Schools (as they are called) has increased 25% since last year, per the Superintendent of those schools at a recent Special Town Meeting in Provincetown.
Nantucket used to airlift Jamaicans in every summer as seasonal workers. Has that changed?
They airlift them in from Provincetown.
By the way, I found out the precise numbers to which I referred at R204; the population of the schools has increased by 28.9% over last year. This cannot be considered a decline.
Hope more old gays move there.
What's with all the older-gay hate? What did we do to you? Other than remind you that you too will get older?
[quote] While many of the crowds this summer were much of the same, much older guys are showing up
Wow, you're a regular genius of prose, OP.
Did you know that Sag Harbor used to be a major lesbian village? Lots of lesbian artists, teachers, social workers, shrinks lived there. They got priced out at he end of the eighties.
R162, were you thinking of Gallerani's, which became Lorraine's?
Lorraine's has now closed.
I wonder whether OP has realized yet that he is older than he used to be.
It's all about the $$$$.
So where are the young guys who used to go to Provincetown going these days?
I love the fact that the OP is now three years older and no doubt showing the mileage.
The bitch forgot that the generation she shat on was the one that made P-Town, and that creeping gentrification and the rest had/have been going on for many years.
Raspberries, cunt. Make yourself a smoothie and suck it down.
Lorraine's closed? It sure had fallen off.
Heh, heh, you said "Sag Harbor."
I just met 2 guys, a couple, who told me they have 2 homes. 1 in Provincetown, and 1 in Palm Springs. MARY !!!
Hey, I think that's nice. Winter in PS, and when it gets too hot, summer in PT. Repeat. For 2 older gay men, sounds lik a very nice life.
Never-mind the crap about age. I'm 48. I make $100,000 a year in Boston. I'm single. Even I feel priced out of this place. Provincetown will never be what it once was. It's for the 99% now.
I think you mean it's for the 1%, Jim.
any twink hangouts in ptown?
anyone there for carnival?
I have no desire to ever go. I've seen pics online and it looks like circuit parties with late 30s to early 50s gays (some fit, some not) who don't want to believe they're not 25 anymore. The other main group I see in pics are fat bears (eew).
I know there are young guys who go hoping to meet a sugar daddy and that's gross too.
r225 it's worth a visit, it's not all circuit parties. There's a lot of natural beauty, e.g. great biking trails through dunes and forest that take you to the ocean. Lots of interesting architecture too. Library is definitely worth a look. the big downer is it has become very pricey, so the old school hippie/artsy vibe has kind of given way to a monied/upscale snootiness.
In the past 8 years home prices have increased 23% in Ptown! The median price went from $635k to $781k! How the fuck can a regular middle class couple afford to buy here?! It's sad that 'we' made Ptown a great place to be, but now we can't afford to live there!
I still love P-town and the cape in general. But I agree how out of control expensive it is. My partner and I were there for Labor Day weekend. For the amount of money we spent on lodging, dinners out, booze, etc we could've had a nice few days in Paris.
We will only go in the off-season now. New Year's is a blast as is Halloween (spookybear).
i'm one of those old (80) balding ,200#, rich,
useless over the hill closet gay men. I nap a lot and go to bed early , I don't drink much .
I like young men 18 yrs. old to 20 . He has to be pretty and something I only dream about. I pick up all checks and tip big time. I get tired of these twinks quickly. "Usually" ! I compliment all parties because I usually pay for it all. The only dopes that knock queers like me are usually people that I don't find worth my time or money .
Money people can be fun . Ease off !
Batman Bruce Wayne
What has replaced Fat Jack's? Is the Post Office Cafe still there? Those two places epitomized ptown IMO. And that weird vast surplus store filled with crap.
What was Provincetown like 20 and 30 years ago? Was it always mostly old bear-infested and white or there was previously more diversity in age, race/background and "scene"?
The Post Office Cafe is still there. And don't rest conclusions about demographics on the crowd today; it's the end of Bear Week.
Stories of the old days, (pre-1990s) please.
What are some of the best bars there now?
Why does it seem like the gays who go now are the same ones who went 30 years ago? There don't seem to be many young gays there except for when porn guys go.
It is a little sad that so much of Ptown is gentrified. Quiet, empty neighborhoods with houses owned by people who only come by on the weekend during the summer. It must be nice to have that kind of money, but it doesn't make for a lively environment most of the time. I still say that Ptown is turning into another Nantucket.
I was one of the ones who went 30 years ago but don't really go much now because it's frankly kind of dull. You can only amble up and down commercial st so many times. The hippy/artsty vibe is long gone, it's monied gay now.
r235, young gays can't go to Ptown because they can't afford it if they don't have trust funds.
If you really want "Lack of Diversity", you can shorten your commute by just going to The Pines on Fire Island. Whiter than an igloo in a blizzard! It used to be VERY 40-55 years old Jewish guys too. It just happens. People go where they can afford, and be around similar people.
[quote]It is a little sad that so much of Ptown is gentrified. Quiet, empty neighborhoods with houses owned by people who only come by on the weekend during the summer.
Sounds like London...
It's also been overrun by fat bears.
As some DLers know, I grew up in the Provincetown area. I'm from a large extended family, and many of my relatives still live/work on the Outer Cape. My uncle (my father's brother) was Chief of Police in Provincetown for more than 25 years.
Life as a "townie"is far different from life as a tourist or as a new-comer. There is a love/hate relationship between the mostly Catholic, conservative Portuguese-American community and the many tourists they depend on for business. As a closeted gay boy/teenager growing up in the 60s & 70s, I remember many uncomfortable conversations at our dinner table or at family gatherings.
The good news was that my peers were far more accepting of the growing gay population then my older relatives. Although I visit there infrequently, my siblings and cousins who run businesses in town, seem much more liberal and surprisingly welcoming to their gay customers. They all know that I'm gay and married, and it's never been an issue with them.
The town, though, is quite different from when I was growing up. From my perspective, it's overgrown, noisy, dirty, and lacking the charm that I remember. Things change, and so I accept it for what it is today. It definitely has lots of senior gays, and that's an interesting and positive thing, imho.
My mother was the nonconformist of our family, and she embraced the artistic, unique life that Provincetown and Truro offered. One of my fondest memories is sitting with her on the porch of the old Pilgrim House talking with a club singer who appeared there. She was a friend of my Mom and watching them chat/drink was like taking a Master Class in camp. Boy could they dish!
I used to think about buying a second home in Ptown. Even though my partner and I both make six figure salaries and will have our mortgage paid off in a couple of years, I'm not sure we can afford Ptown. I'm thinking we could get a lot more bang for our buck in Truro. I don't think I'll miss the chaos of Commercial Street at all really. We'll see in a few years...
Is there a year-round gay community, or is it mostly a summer thing?
I've been reading this thread from the safety of London and it's been fun and really olde fashioned gay. All the bitching and sneering at each other. Poor old, OP. He really got it in the teeth, didn't he? (Do you use that expression in America?)
Anyway, the point I want to make is...I went to google street view and had a wander about the streets of Provincetown...initially going to the non commercial end of Commercial Street and working my way along and I'm just taken aback by the beauty of the place...which no one has referred to.
It's ADORABLE and dreamy looking. Lovely little lanes with clapperboard cottages painted in variety of colours....little front yards with picket fences.
It looks like heaven on earth and WAY nicer than even the nicest of the ghastly beach towns in fucking England...added to the fact that over there you can expect a real summer every year...not just once in a blue moon.
R242 -- have you read Jon Loomis' mystery novels featuring a Provincetown cop (native, not a transplant)?
[quote]All the bitching and sneering at each other. Poor old, OP. He really got it in the teeth, didn't he?
Poor misunderstood OP! he was such an innocent babe in the woods, huh? Let's recall exactly what he said, r245:
"Some of them are the old crusty muscle daddies and some are just ancient... What used to be a vibrant, diverse gay resort town has become God's waiting room for fugly, sour faced old gays."
r245 - You're right. It is a pretty beach town but somebody has to shit all over it if they don't have the same fantastic time as a previous experience.
And the nightlife for gays is really good for the size of the town. The shows (not clubs) are the best thing - comedians, singers, good drag, etc. Plus there are several gay dance clubs and a daily afternoon tea dance.
It is very pleasant and it can't expand much due to geography, so it's not surprising that the costs are going to go up on the limited amount of real estate.
My partner and I usually go every other year. We have been doing so since 1998. I probably posted earlier in this thread but too tired to really scroll back and find out. PTOWN has changed, yes, but there is something still magical about it. I guess in a way it's like NYC, yes, it isn't what it used to be, but there is still no other place like it.
Thank you for your post R245. Yes, ptown is beautiful, and quaint and charming. Last year we had the ideal rental in town. West End of PTOWN, just at the end of Commercial street before the bend. Our rental had a rooftop porch that overlooked the city. When the fog rolled in at night sometimes, it was just absolutely breathtaking. Haunting, beautiful, warm and mysterious. We've grown up there as a couple from our early 20s. I'll be 40 on our next visit. Every year, there's a point I say, I can't believe we are doing this again. But by the end, I am so glad we did. I'm going to miss it this year.
There has been a foodie explosion there as well, just as everywhere else. We ate at Local 186 several times, best burgers, beers. Cafe Heaven, best breakfast for quite some time. Nor"East Beer Garden is a new favorite. And The Canteen run by Loic Rossignon who used to do real estate there and rented my partner and me our first place in PTOWN years ago.
For a laugh, if anyone goes to Edwige for dinner, please tell me if the tall, over-bearing, hot model-looking Russian guy with the bad skin is still waiting tables there. It was quite funny the little drama they had unfolding. He is so out of place because of his looks and the other waiters seemed quite submissive to him. He kind of ran the place with all eyes on him, visiting tables that weren't even his. Making what looked like drug pickup and drop offs just outside and fishing for clients from the leering old male diners. The food is terrible, FYI.
You're right, R247...the thread was so long, I'd forgotten the tone of OP's original post.
But it's been a fun thread. It's quite taken me outside of myself...and away from shitty England.
If this was an English beach town. There's be speed bumps everywhere, impossible parking which if you did find anywhere to park the cost would be PHENOMENAL.
It would be dirty. The houses would have been ruined, all the original windows torn out of the houses and replaced with plastic double glazing. Plastic front doors...a few dirty old phone boxes, empty beer cans left on top of the phones.
There's be no stylish, reasonably priced places to eat...a few scuzzy overpriced dumps with tables covered in stuff that one's bothered to clear away.
& it would probably be muggy and overcast or drizzling.
R245, I had the worst food of my life in Rhyll. Welsh beach town, but still.
I've been going to Ptown my entire life, first on family visits during summer vacation, for the last 20 years as a gay adult. Still see some of the same people I saw 20 years ago and, in fact, just got back from Bear Week.
But if you don't like it--the natural beauty, the street life, the galleries, the shows, the restaurants--stay away and leave it for those if us who do.
I just read the OP's post and skimmed the thread and don't get the searing hatred for the OP, not that he's around anymore.
Why so sensitive over someone who's going off on the older gay/club crowd when nobody's said a word over the snarking of the bears or lesbian crowd in this thread?
Those aging circuit types and the queeny barflies can be real nasty pieces of work. Several years ago I began going to PTown after moving to Boston. I didn't know a soul, I rented a place out there one summer and would drive out on the weekends. While I loved being there, it was painfully cliquish and classist. In the winters, the small group of gay townies which inhabit the place can be just as unfriendly. Not that they're horrible or all horrible people, just not the nicest people.
As a (once) single guy who was there, and who's been to many clubs, it's often been the older guys who're the most nasty and unwelcoming and cliquey. I've been to my share of Black Parties and White Parties, etc., I know how vicious those guys can be. Sounds like the OP was making more a statement on those types and not suggesting older gays don't have a place there.
As for me, PTown will remain a fun memory. Between many of the locals and its overcrowding, I no longer go. In the summer, Ogunquit or even Portland, Maine are awesome places to be in the summer if you're gay.
I went there from my childhood with my parents and then in the 90s after I came out.
I miss the early 90s when you could get a cheap double room at Haven House or Rumors or the Christopher Inn on the other side of town.
I miss those days when the guys you met weren't so "high class" but they were just normal people that were fun to hang out with.
I miss the nights of actually dancing in the clubs to great music and the popular songs of that summer that seemed to be on every dance floor.
Does anyone dance anymore?
I can remember walking around P-Town after the clubs closed just before Spiritus feeling like we owned the town. Completely safe and secure.
Now the drunk straights are sort of scary.
Well Haven House and Roomers are now a part of that "Brass Key" complex which is quite expensive.
Where do the young 20somethings go?
I have my memories. Thank God for that.
The young kids that just want to come to P-town and do the Beach, Tea, dinner and the clubs and stay in a nice cheap place and screw their brains out are really being pushed out.
[quote]The young kids that just want to come to P-town and do the Beach, Tea, dinner and the clubs and stay in a nice cheap place and screw their brains out are really being pushed out.
Don't they just usually bike from Truro or the younger ones stay in tents on the camp ground on the West End? Everyday is like a board game with getting an invite to stay up on Telegraph Hill the equivalent of a Boardwalk/Park Place monopoly.
thats just sad R254.
Back in the day you were able to rent a cheap room right in P town proper.
The rooms weren't the most luxurious but they came with the camaraderie of a house full of guys and house boys to shake the sheets (among other things!) and tidy up your room.
Haven house was right in the center of town. The beds were awful but we slept at the beach anyway. and it was cheap.
You didn't have to rely on an invite or bike.
Some guys don't realize what it was like until around 1999 or 2000.
It kind of changed after that
It's kinda sad that there are so many very young ladies who like to crash gay nightclubs with an air that clearly says "we're so cool, we're slumming with the queers". I wish those fag hag wannabees would just go somewhere else. They dominate all the rest of the Cape, and all the rest of the world. Can't we queers have our own space in our little corner of the world?
has anyone been lately?
How old are you and what was your experience?
How was it?
My friends have been trying to unload their fancy house in Truro for 3 years. They hate it because it is so borrrrring out of season.
And they are old and boring. So it must really be hell in winter there if those 2 think it's boring.
We're a couple that have been together for more years than I care to count. We bring the kids for family week and yes it has changed over the years. Thing is, the posts here are correct, those who can afford it come here. The thing that I have an issue with is how rude and inconsiderate many of the posts on this issue are. Gay folks expect to be accepted but are the most judgmental group I've ever experienced. The older I get the more I see it. Sad that the younger folks make a mockery about being gay.
Going to PTOWN in a few weeks. What other towns in the area should I check out? Anything worth seeing?
R264, it's impossible to answer that without knowing anything about you. But if you have chosen Provincetown, you might like the Susan Baker Memorial Museum. (She is still alive, by the way.)
Lots of nearby destinations if you have bored kids. And truly wonderful ice cream in West Falmouth, with a new branch in Hyannis, near the worthless Cape Cod Mall.
Marc Jacobs smack in the middle of Commercial Street is what happened.
OP, how many young people do you think can afford vacations at expensive resorts these days?
Provincetown was NEVER considered an expensive resort.
"It's kinda sad that there are so many very young ladies who like to crash gay nightclubs with an air that clearly says "we're so cool, we're slumming with the queers". I wish those fag hag wannabees would just go somewhere else. They dominate all the rest of the Cape, and all the rest of the world. Can't we queers have our own space in our little corner of the world?"
This was my experience in Ogunquit a couple of weeks ago. Great time, but wow, straight people had taken over all the "gay" bars - probably 65% of the crowd.
One of my favorite things about Ptown was watching young gay guys from places like Kansas and Nebraska. They had this look of wonder and excitement and were poised for fun. Now, I doubt they can afford it.
Now dumpy, middle aged gay guys from places like Kansas and Nebraska. They tend to hold hands, because they can. We need places like that.
In 1992, I was having breakfast at what is now Cafe Heaven. An exceptionally attractive man came in, and I realized that I was assuming that he was gay, despite the fact that there were no indicia to that effect. I thought, "this is what straight people must feel like all the time!"
The rest of the world has changed, but town (the P is silent) is an invaluable part of our history.
R271 the P ISNT silent at all.
1992? Dude, I wasn't even born yet.
I feel sorry for you R273.
You missed all the good times in Ptown.
Ptown is home to a whole lot of people who have been wounded and discarded by mainstream society. Maybe that's why I fit in so well there.
Yes, R272, the P is silent, like in the bathtub.
Re; straights "slumming it" with gays. Hey, isn't acceptance and integration what we have been fighting for all these years?
I see less and less of a need for specifically Gay places, at least among young adults. And that, IMO, is a good thing.
Remember before? Yeah, I kinda thought you didn't. How quickly we forget.
You are naive, R277. Slutty young straight girls hanging out in gay bars hardly passes for 'acceptance'. I'm so glad straights find us amusing, but come on, get real.
agree with r279. We're entertainment to a lot of them.
We made a visit to ptown this September. Loved it and many things said here are true but we both still thought it was great. Oh, and if you have not taken the Art's dune tour, it's a must. And Robb, our tour guide...woof! Loved him.