Pay and benefits per (federal government) employee now average more than twice that of private workers: $123,049 compared to $61,051, NOT including benefits like health care and retirement pensions.\
No wonder our country is in financial chaos. These people produce NOTHING, but they make over twice as much as the average private sector worker. \
When will people wake up and tell these useless parasites to go to hell?
Shut it and pay your taxes OP, I''ve got my eye on a Mercedes.
What web page can I see to get a government job?\
Seriously, all the army bases must be hiring, right? \
Especially the one in my town, growing by leaps and bounds since it is constantly getting soldiers in.
government is the problem, blah, blah, blah...
shove it up your freeper ass.
Let''s fire all the government employees and watch unemployment skyrocket to 20%!
r3, shut it and pay your taxes bitch.
I''d like to see statistics on this. I''d understood that from 1980 on ward there was a deliberate effort to make increase the gab between government and private sector pay to the point that government would only be able to attract second tier talent. Has this changed? If so, I need to get a government job STAT!
Fuck you, OP. \
These stories about the overpaid civil servant never cease to annoy me because they''re ALWAYS full of fuzzy logic. The fact of the matter is, civil service employees are generally better educated and technically skilled. Everyone in my office has a college degree from a reputable school, and most have graduate degrees (I''m working on mine). I also work for an agency that is staffed with dozens of scientists, engineers, and lawyers (who are most certainly UNDERPAID when you compare them to their private sector counterparts).\
Also, I''d like to see you stand up at your next Tea Party rally and start bitching about how much money is spent per servicemember. I was in the military and nobody was up in arms when our personnel center bragged about the hundreds of thousands that were spent in pay, benefits, and training for military members.
So, fifty percent of government workers are making over $123,000 a year? Yeah, right.\
Or, are there just a few that make millions who balance out the rest? That doesn''t make sense. I''ve never even heard of a government job that pays anything like that.\
I call bullshit on all of it.
The government should be screwing everyone just like Big Business does. Otherwise, how will Jesus get his bonus?
[quote]effort to make increase the gab \
I have no idea.
R9 is correct. The only fair comparison is job to job and experience/education level to experience/education level.\
OP is freeper trash.
I call bullshit!!!\
Notice OP hasn''t furnished any link to prove his outlandish statement.
no one needs to back up their statements with facts anymore. in our age of foreign owned propaganda pushers (fox) masquerading as respectable media outlets, you can say what ever you want! look at the billionaire-backed "grass roots" tea party- none of their candidates bother with truth or facts!\
call it he post-truthiness era.
For feds, more get 6-figure salaries
By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY
The number of federal workers earning six-figure salaries has exploded during the recession, according to a USA TODAY analysis of federal salary data.
Federal employees making salaries of $100,000 or more jumped from 14% to 19% of civil servants during the recession's first 18 months — and that's before overtime pay and bonuses are counted.
Federal workers are enjoying an extraordinary boom time — in pay and hiring — during a recession that has cost 7.3 million jobs in the private sector.
When the recession started, the Transportation Department had only one person earning a salary of $170,000 or more. Eighteen months later, 1,690 employees had salaries above $170,000.
The trend to six-figure salaries is occurring throughout the federal government, in agencies big and small, high-tech and low-tech. The primary cause: substantial pay raises and new salary rules.
"There's no way to justify this to the American people. It's ridiculous," says Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, a first-term lawmaker who is on the House's federal workforce subcommittee.
Jessica Klement, government affairs director for the Federal Managers Association, says the federal workforce is highly paid because the government employs skilled people such as scientists, physicians and lawyers. She says federal employees make 26% less than private workers for comparable jobs.
USA TODAY analyzed the Office of Personnel Management's database that tracks salaries of more than 2 million federal workers. Excluded from OPM's data: the White House, Congress, the Postal Service, intelligence agencies and uniformed military personnel.
The growth in six-figure salaries has pushed the average federal worker's pay to $71,206, compared with $40,331 in the private sector.
Key reasons for the boom in six-figure salaries:
• Pay hikes. Then-president Bush recommended — and Congress approved — across-the-board raises of 3% in January 2008 and 3.9% in January 2009. President Obama has recommended 2% pay raises in January 2010, the smallest since 1975. Most federal workers also get longevity pay hikes — called steps — that average 1.5% per year.
•New pay system. Congress created a new National Security Pay Scale for the Defense Department to reward merit, in addition to the across-the-board increases. The merit raises, which started in January 2008, were larger than expected and rewarded high-ranking employees. In October, Congress voted to end the new pay scale by 2012.
• Paycaps eased. Many top civil servants are prohibited from making more than an agency's leader. But if Congress lifts the boss' salary, others get raises, too. When the Federal Aviation Administration chief's salary rose, nearly 1,700 employees' had their salaries lifted above $170,000, too.
Now, R4/5/8/14, since you have the stats, will you apologize or just try to rationalize your worship at the altar of government?
Again, freeper trash, the only fair comparison is between comparable jobs held by people with comparable education and experience.\
Until you do this, you can continue fucking off.
"The growth in six-figure salaries has pushed the average federal worker's pay to $71,206, compared with $40,331 in the private sector." OP, your figures are grossly inflated. I am a government lawyer and I can assure you that my benefits do not equal 70% of my base pay.
Lack of context raises its ugly head here again on the DL. The federal government does not have any employees making minimum wage while 10% (roughly) of all Americans make it. Even the lowest paid government employees, i.e., new soldiers, make more than the minimum wage. Teabagger assholes can't do math. Those millions and millions of burger flippers drag the average down. It's comparing apples and oranges.
On the flip side, there are fewer than 70000 government employees who make in excess of $100k--and that includes the President, all of the judges and US attorneys, and most of those government doctors and scientists. More people than that work in finance in Lower Manhattan.
Unless you are wholly unskilled, wages are much better in the private sector.
[quote]Excluded from OPM''s data: the White House, Congress, the Postal Service, intelligence agencies and uniformed military personnel.\
That is, rigged to make the figures freeper-friendly and manipulate tea party idiots\
[quote]Jessica Klement, government affairs director for the Federal Managers Association, says the federal workforce is highly paid because the government employs skilled people such as scientists, physicians and lawyers. ***She says federal employees make 26% less than private workers for comparable jobs.***\
Now, freeper trash, will you please fuck off and die?
i heart you, r21, and resoundingly agree: freeper trash, fuck off and die.
"Pay and benefits per (federal government) employee now average more than twice that of private workers: $123,049 compared to $61,051, NOT including benefits like health care and retirement pensions."\
"The growth in six-figure salaries has pushed the average federal worker''s pay to $71,206, compared with $40,331 in the private sector."\
Hey, freeptarded OP, explain these. The first was from the OP, the second from the article.\
I won''t even bother to make fun of the fact that in just one sentence OP managed to contradict himself. How can you include benefits and not include them at the same time?
[quote]in our age of foreign owned propaganda pushers (fox) masquerading as respectable media outlets, you can say what ever you want! \
Pardon me, but ever since every media outlet in the USA scared us into supporting the invasion of Iraq lest we be attacked by Saddam''s vast arsenal of weapons of mass destruction I''ve had the darnedest time trying to figure out which ones are supposed to be considered respectable.
Numbers seem inflated because they include total compensation of medical and retirement. \
You remember retirement, freepers, the first things you got rid of for your employees when you couldn''t take a little less profit. \
Don''t begrudge government employees because they retain benefits the for profit overlords did away with...
Olbermann did a piece on this a few weeks back. The uphsot was just what R20 wrote: "skilled" government workers make appreciably less than their private-sector counterparts while "unskilled" government workers make appreciably more.
HR 6134 will require Federal employees to take furloughs in 2011 which will save taxpayers $5.5 million.
Not buying into this one. It''s not the government fault that the "invisible hand" doesn''t pay fair and living wages.
All gov employees are worthless anyway.
[quote]These people produce NOTHING\
I would argue that NONE of you in the private sector but the mechanics, candle-stick makers and cobblers produce anything. \
this is a moot point. over and out.
R33 has never driven a car, used a computer, eaten a burger, seen a doctor, watched a movie, listened to music, played a video game...
Can people that stupid breathe?
What does the govt produce?
I spent 2 hours and $25 getting my drivers license renewed by surly, incompetent assholes- a business would have made it easy, fast and cheap.
The truth of the matter is that the government DID make an effort several years to equalize government and military pay with counterparts in civilian workforce.
Trouble was - they forgot to put in a mechanism to TURN IT OFF!!
I come from a long line of federal bureaucrats. It's a family thing.
Personally, my family has given you at least three excellent workers and two fuckups.
I did not join in the fray, saving the taxpayers thousands.
No one goes into civil service expecting to become rich. Mostly they join for the benefits and security for their families. Since I have no immediate family, I did not join.
I'll brag about a cousin, though, who works as a civilian engineer, making crumbs to what he could get in the private sector. He stays there because the government is paying for his education. He is a true believer, as well, so you all can be assured you are getting excellent value for your money.
In what universe does the average person working outside of government make $61,051 a year?
R38, walk around a little more
The median annual compensation in the US in 2010 was $26,363.
The average (mean) was $39,959, distorted by the few hedge funders making $50,000,000 in a year.
There is no place on the planet that the average person is making $60,000 a year.
OP is Michele Bachmann, willing to bet you can say whatever shit you want, harnessed by ideology and unhindered by knowledge.
When people like OP claim that government employees are getting over on the taxpayer, what they mean is that they want fewer government rank and file government workers so government can't do its essential work for average people.
Then they can show government to be ineffectual and demand more cuts.
What they do not mean is that the immense subsidies government gives to private corporations should ever go away.
The C.E.O.s of major arms manufacturers and the major shareholders get billions of dollars every year put into their pockets because the Defense Department gets them business.
The wealth these people amass every year, and these people are already incredibly rich, comes from our tax dollars, but that's not the compensation this poster wants you to think about.
What this poster wants is for people to decide that the mailman, the census taker, the school teacher, and the sanitation worker makes too much money, so let's screw them.
[quote]"There's no way to justify this to the American people. It's ridiculous," says Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, a first-term lawmaker who is on the House's federal workforce subcommittee.
Pretty rich from a guy who just started a new job and is getting paid six figures and a shitload of perks.
Read the article - the jobs are in sectors like defense and transportation. Hmmm... must be moving forward with those fortress walls.
And how many low or entry level federal jobs were cut to pay more at the top end? Have the actual number of jobs increased? The article doesn't talk about those figures. Wonder why? Of course, a bunch of nutbaggers are going to jump all over this.
I've been trying to get a job with the feds for years. I have an M.A. in Government, for chrissake.
So OP? I just don't want to hear it.
More Freeper crapola to create infighting amongst the 99% and deflect attention away from the conservative overlords of the 1% by their sock puppet online shills.
Almost a sixth of the US population on Food Stamps/SNAP. Worry about raising THEIR standard of living and not tearing down another member of the 99%.
OP, let's see the figures when you see federal government employees' income versus private sector employees' doing comparable work - then we can talk about whether federal government workers are overpaid.
Everybody raise your hand who thinks that OP lives on SS benefits.
As a federal civilian employee--keep in mind when you compare these statistics that the government doesn't employ retail workers, waiters and waitresses, blue collar workers, etc (anything remotely "blue collar" is contracted out; they don't receive government benefits). Many government workers are attorneys, scientists, etc.
I'm a secretary and get paid 42k a year. After about 20 years, I'll be making 58k or so. In previous private sector positions that I have held, I STARTED at 55-70. Of course, these were all banks and law firms and I was laid off from the last two positions. The salary decrease hurt, but the job stability is a bit better.
My partner is an IT person, also in the same agency as me. She does work on the server and has done it for 20 years. She makes 81k. After 20 years of doing her job, people in the private sector would be making at least 120k.
Attorneys just out of law school start at around 70k. This is far less than many big law firms. The most money that the majority of them will ever make is 155k, and that's if they become a manager, and would take DECADES to reach that level. Most of the more senior attorneys make between 110-130k, but again that's
The work isn't "cushy". It used to be, but not anymore. They don't hire behind most employees these days, which means everyone is doing triple the work.
The only real perk is the vacation time--13 days a year for the first three years, then 20 days a year for years 3-15, then 26 days a year for 15+ years. Plus 13 sick days and paid holidays.
It's also hard to get fired. I hate my boss and can tell the bitch off without having to worry about any disciplinary action. But, I am also a very hard worker. Yes, there are some people who fit the stereotype of lazy government worker, but honestly they're pretty few and far between.
Your typical government workers, like myself, are not the problem. It's the people on the hill! They are, once again, using us (the lower level workers, which comprise the majority of the government) as a scapegoat. Morale is TERRIBLE at work right now.
OP smells funny.
Perhaps gov't on all level benefits are a bit better than the private sector- the rest of the OPs post is the usual ignorant garbage spouted by Republicans.
We are in a debt fix because of Bush tax cuts and two charged wars (Bush did not even include them in his budgets.) That is to say that the Obama administration is saddled with debt his administration did not create, nor the Clinton administration. In addition, we went into a deep recession that killed revenue to create more trouble. Of course the cause was the wholesale gutting of banking regulation that was part of the Reagan "revolution" and is still being resisted by the Republicans in Congress.
OP- get your facts straight, get your head straight and stop listening to Michelle Bachmann, FOX and the rest of the more willfully ignorant and self destructive party and political movement since the Democratic South prior to the Civil War.
Short term spending and long term debt reduction with regulation of the financial sector (details like not being able to leverage 1000:1 deposits from private banker is one small item) are the solution- one that the Republicans will have nothing to do with. Why their latest in the Panel of 12 was to cut the top income tax from 35 to 28%, just what the very wealthy (and I am one of them) need- NOT.
The OP and people like him are ruining our country- leading it over a cliff. They are not doing too well in Europe either, only our problems are much easier to fix. It is all a great example of how belief and ideology trumps data and truth- why it is happening is a whole different can of worms.
At least they have good pay and benefits. Everybody should, the one percent private corporate heads have been embezzling from the working class since the late 1970's...the stupid American voter has allowed their own jobs to diminish by voting for politicians with corporate interests. The foolish workers voted themselves out of private sector job, in part because they like to shop at Walmart to save a few cents. They bought into the " made in china" stupidity.
This is what OWS is about, wake up people! Trillions to the one percent, none for you!
Be thankful that the government has not pulled the same stunts on their employees as corporations have.
Let me add you really need to consider the cost of living when comparing salaries. DC is ridiculously expensive. Realestate in the DC/NOVA/MD areas is some of the most expensive in the country and the most of the houses are old, small, and outdated. Traffic is awful and taxes are high especially in Maryland. Schools are hit or miss, especially in the city. Salaries may look good on paper, but in reality, the federal government workers aren't living "well".
I presume Republicans want to annihilate the middle class in this country.
Not satisfied with doing away with unions and collective bargaining agreements, they now want to end government jobs -- the last sure way for US citizens to live a middle class life.
Geez, now do I need to start reading the dates on every thread??? This thread is over a year old? Why is it still even around?
And as far as the content, get a clue, some of you. The corporate-owned media and their owned republicans push this public/private split so that private employees will not think to demand more for their own work. This thread was started before OWS. Some of you idiots on this board keep asking what they want. They want a decent job at a decent wage with decent benefits. Stop complaining about government workers. Get off your asses and start insisting that the corporate overlords peel off a few layers of riches and share them with the people who actually do the work.
ask r35, the moron who bumped this thread (and likely started it last year)...
R41, you are missing the point. Yes, privatization is a scam and privatized workers, the Defense Department has found, cost 50% more than direct employees. But when direct employees make so much, the public will never sympathize with them so you have to modify your response. The PUBLIC SECTOR EMPLOYEES OF THE GOVERNMENT did not lift a finger when the private sector lost their pensions 20 years ago, when their unions were busted, and as CEO's started stealing from their own companies. As long as you were given annual raises and benefits, you could whine about how much you were giving up not to work in the private sector, and bitch to your heart's content. But now that they have pauperized the rest of the country, so it is no longer RICH enough to support your salaries, SUDDENLY THEN you want worker solidarity, when it's too late. You need to fight against privatization and CEO salaries, but you might as well understand that you are going to lose your special pension and health care benefits, and there is no way in hell the people whether liberal or conservative, can save them.
I am a highly educated government employee and I make a lot less money than I would in the private sector. However, I enjoy the stability and 9-5 hours (instead of 10 - 12 hr days). It can be frustrating working with some folks that act like stereotypical civil servants, but overall I have decent coworkers.
I like the security of having a union and it's too bad the unions have been practically wiped out in the private sector. The benefits and vacation hours are more than fair. I feel like I made the right decision.
No you wouldn't make more in the private sector, unless you were a government contractor.
Well there are 435 government workers who are making over 100K a year. Wonder if they're going to cut their pay and benefits.
I work for a nonprofit, make 74K and have benefits that are significantly better than the federal government. My vacation and sick days along with the high number of days my office is closed throughout the year, total over 40 annually. Funding for my program will end soon and I will be out of a job. I'm too depressed to even think about looking for another job. I don't think I'll ever find anything as good as what I have now.
R59, he probably would. I make HALF of what I made in the private sector. My boss when to Harvard law, top of her class, has worked in the government for 15 years. She makes $110k.a year! If she worked in the private sector, she would have started at that salary!
True, and within two years if she hadn't brought in any million dollar accounts, she would have been unemployed and making $0 R61. And there would have been a better than even chance of that happening. You just aren't functioning on the level of the real world where most people in the "private sector" are working at Wal-Mart for $10 an hour and are just as smart and hardworking and "skilled" as the secretary in that office making 60K.
The average police and fire captain in any big city is making over 100k and they don't do anything that requires a college degree!
I might add too that the when the recession started in 2001 it didn't affect the top law firms, but by 2008 it did, so they are, most of them, downsizing, so your view that she would have waltzed into that high paying job is a little naive. Maybe twenty years ago, but not in the real America.
Please, R20. Federal judges, D.C. judges and government attorneys make very good money. Do you think they'd all be partners or even associates in some top tier law firms in big cities? Hardly. Govt attorneys do not have the isues or work hours that private sector attorneys have. They also don't have the pressures.
For the most part, many of these people, are making about what they'd be making in the private sector - if they could even get and keep a job nowadays. Of course they have incredible benefits and job security. THAT is something money can't buy.
The rationale for govt workers not being on a par with the private sector is that they had secure jobs and excellent benefits. Which makes sense to me - many people were and are willing to make that trade off. But now there is not this disparity and, in fact, many govt jobs are higher paying than private industry. And they still have job security, low work place pressure, and fabulous benefits.
That trade off never produced a lesser quality workforce. Not ever. People who are motivated by bigger salaries and risk taking are not necessarily the better employees - if ever.
R61, that just sounds like she's not ambitious or you don't know the truth. I know that my friend who went to work in the Sacramento Federal Defender Office with a little over 10 years experience was making $120,000 year 5 years ago. I'd say at least half of, if not more, the attorneys in the US Attorney's office are making $110,00 to $120,000 and those with supervisory jobs $130 to $150K a year. PLUS, again, great benefits, work environment, everything paid for from bar dues to their cell phones. And a great shot at becoming a judge somewhere in the system or getting great private sector jobs. They also love to create and bestow honors upon themselves which we wickedly mock.
Nobody should be crying for federal workers. They are doing just fine. They aren't losing their houses.
These people are thugs.
Credit expansion is the governments foremost tool in their struggle against the market economy. In their hands it is the magic wand designed to conjure away the scarcity of capital goods, to lower the rate of interest or to abolish it altogether, to finance lavish government spending, to expropriate the capitalists, to contrive everlasting booms, and to make everybody prosperous.
"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
This first stage of the inflationary process may last for many years. While it lasts, the prices of many goods and services are not yet adjusted to the altered money relation. There are still people in the country who have not yet become aware of the fact that they are confronted with a price revolution which will finally result in a considerable rise of all prices, although the extent of this rise will not be the same in the various commodities and services. These people still believe that prices one day will drop. Waiting for this day, they restrict their purchases and concomitantly increase their cash holdings. As long as such ideas are still held by public opinion, it is not yet too late for the government to abandon its inflationary policy.
But then, finally, the masses wake up. They become suddenly aware of the fact that inflation is a deliberate policy and will go on endlessly. A breakdown occurs. The crack-up boom appears. Everybody is anxious to swap his money against 'real' goods, no matter whether he needs them or not, no matter how much money he has to pay for them. Within a very short time, within a few weeks or even days, the things which were used as money are no longer used as media of exchange. They become scrap paper. Nobody wants to give away anything against them.
It was this that happened with the Continental currency in America in 1781, with the French mandats territoriaux in 1796, and with the German mark in 1923. It will happen again whenever the same conditions appear. If a thing has to be used as a medium of exchange, public opinion must not believe that the quantity of this thing will increase beyond all bounds. Inflation is a policy that cannot last.
After working long hours over many months crafting new rules for Wall Street, a number of government regulators are switching sides to work for the firms that will have to follow and interpret them.
Whenever there is a major policy change in Washington like the 2010 Dodd-Frank financial overhaul, it enhances the marketability of government employees with specialized skills and contacts. But in the past, it was officials at the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department in particular who found their expertise and contacts most highly valued in the financial industry[...]
At least nine CFTC employees have decamped since June for firms in finance, law and accounting that are figuring out how to comply with the Dodd-Frank overhaul. Six of the staffers were directly involved in rule making and three were in enforcement.
Among the firms doing the hiring are J.P. Morgan Chase, Deutsche Bank AG, Nomura Securities, Covington & Burling LLP and PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP. Some are subject to the rules, while others advise clients who are[...]
Carl Kennedy, a staffer to Commissioner Scott O'Malia, went to J.P. Morgan, and Adedayo Banwo, a lawyer in the agency's general counsel's office, joined Deutsche Bank. Both firms and several other large banks are expected early next year to register as "swap dealers," a designation that carries with it governance rules and capital requirements.[...] critics of the revolving door between Washington and Wall Street say they worry ex-staffers could use their personal connections to pressure the agency into crafting rules favorable to their new employers.
What's really evil here is not just that these characters will provide workarounds to legislation they just crafted, but that they will influence the creation of new rules and regulations that will provide an edge for their crony firms, and create a moat that makes it extremely difficult for others to enter a sector.
In SoCal, the port secretarial union went on strike last month. They're making $125K and were given a raise to $195K. The Dock workers union got on their side and clogged up the port. The thing they wanted? That the state not be allowed to have the choice to bring in an employee if one is out to replace them. They want total control of their workplace. And they are paper pushers with NO education! And get 6 weeks vacation a year!
I really shake my head at why I bothered to go to college, work my ass off and not be in any position as some lazy ass secretaries in the port who make nearly $200K a year with killer pension and benefits and vacation bennies.
I am a government employee. I make 50k after 25 years, and I work my ass off for it.
You must have a soul.
In my day (shake rake) we all avoided the Feds because the people and the jobs were so dead end.
From March 2012:
[quote] Average Federal Salary: $83,679 and Lowest Average Pay Increase in 10 Years
From August 2012:
[quote] On average, federal employees make $77,414 a year in wages, about 44% more than private-sector employees at $53,463, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The difference in pay is due to higher education levels in the federal workforce, more white-collar jobs, and the concentration of jobs located in Washington, a pricier place to live than other parts of the nation.
My father started out of college in 60 with USDA and worked himself up to being in a pretty high position when he retired. He was the contract administrator for some very big and important contracts through the DOE in the nuclear field.
His benefits kept his family of 6 healthy and he retired under the old golden pension plan that federal employees cannot get anymore, but his salary was never more than half what he could have been making consulting in the private sector about government contracts.
The Libertarian Idiot Troll(TM) is bumping three year old threads again. Oh joy, oh rapture.
OP/Freeper say what?
Bitch just wants to distract from the squillions paid to Wall Street criminals.