Whatever. It is the Daily Mail. Not exactly a credible publication for this kind of news.
Daily Heil stories about old Hollywood stars and old British grand families have been posted here before with no complaints. I think the most recent was of turn of the century American brides whose dowries basically saved the land and homes of titled nobility.
I always thought it was just exaggerated for publicity''s sake but apparently it is a very real feud and they have not even spoken in 35 years.
It''s hard to picture Melanie Wilkes as crazy and mean as she sounds in this....sounds like she is like her part , Miriam, in Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte!
R1 , you really don''t know the what the definition of "news" is.
Isn''t it time they patched this thing up?
They both come across as miserable cunts.
DeHavilland is in truly remarkable shape, physically and mentally, for a 94-year old woman. And she''s still a looker! A true, elegant grande dame of Hollywood''s Golden Era. Wouldn''t it be just delicious if she could be coaxed out of retirement from her Paris home to do just one more meaty role in a film and earn her third Oscar? It would be the greatest cinematic comeback of all time. And don''t get me started on how fitting it would have and should have been for her to have played Old Rose in TITANIC rather than the embarassing and amateurish piece of wood, Gloria Stuart.
She was too young to play Old Rose.
However, R9, she can play the older Betty White in her upcoming Lifetime biopic.
Sounds like their mother favored Olivia, setting the stage for a lifetime of resentment and bitterness.
Actually, Olivia was known in Hollywood as extremely gracious and Joan as somewhat waspish. I don''t think that Joan gets along with her daughter; Olivia and her children are very close. Joan had nothing to do with her husbands once she divorced them (hardly uncommon); when Olivia''s second ex-husband, the French one, got a terminal illness, she invited him to stay at her home and nursed him until his death. Joan was a very accomplished woman: a chef and a pilot. But Olivia was always considered nicer. She was also a more ambitious actress. Her performance in The Heiress, her best, was one of the best ever on film, I think.
That''s interesting article. Olvia is more famous today than Joan Fontaine. I didn''t even know the latter was still alive. Would be cool to see them both do a movie together before they die.
I don''t ever remember Olivia being referred to as the queen of Hollywood as is posted in that little slice of yellow journalism.
Please. Is there anyone who doesn''t know about this feud. It''s legendary.%0D\
I am saying that I wouldn''t trust the Daily Mail to give you the truthful reality of the feud. Spare me your snot, R5.
The only difference between Olivia and Joan is the fact that one''s a raging bitch and the other''s a miserable cunt. They need to kiss and make up before it''s too late.
Agree, R16. They''ve been blessed with extra time and long life into their 90''s, which most people don''t get. They should do a "Straight Story" and make=up their quarrel while they still can.
Didn''t I read that Joan gave money to Oliva when she was having problems?
Which is wealthier ? Joan did a lot of rubbish movies in the 50s which must have been purely for the money - she has nothing nice to say about them in her book No Bed of Roses. Those films with Bob Hope, Mario Lanza etc and an awful one I caught once titled Flight to Tangier with Jack Palance ! %0D\
Joan had no important movies after Letter From An Unknown Woman - and neither did Olivia after The Heiress, so really their careers peaked by the end of the 40s, but then of course that new lot of girls like Audrey and Grace were arriving in town...%0D\
Joan got eaten by the shark in Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea and played second fiddle to Jennifer Jones in that dull film of Tender is the Night, then finished with that Hammer film The Witches ! %0D\
Pity she didnt go into tv roles like Olivia - perhaps she was rich enough not to bother.%0D\
I think Joan has always been the more beautiful. She also looks great today.%0D
Whichever one is richer - and it seems that Joan is or was at one time - has little to do with who had better or even more movies. Comparatively speaking actors of yore didn't make the kind of huge money they do now. Some of the richest actors became so for other reasons - Fred MacMurray, Joel McCrae, Will Rogers because of all the real estate they amassed. %0D
Sometimes sibling issues are too deep seated to overcome. It seems obvious that the mother helped create this and stoked it throughout her life and beyond. Of course we can't know how true all of this is and I haven't rad Joan's book but on a superficial reading I'd side with Joan. Big sisters can be a bitch from the moment you're born if they never get over the notion that you are a threat to them. I know. %0D
My older sister was an unkind bitch to me most of her life. It wasn't something I was willing to fully face until right before and after her death because it was so hurtful. I didn't learn until we were both older that she spent a lifetime jealous of me when her 2nd husband spilled the beans to my mother. Even during her final illness when we had reconciled she continually turned on me and I just took it silently. I blamed it on her illness. %0D
Some people you just have to leave alone even relatives. At their age, neither Joan nor Olivia probably want to be bothered with reconciling. If they are toxic to each other why would anyone want to visit that on either of them.
What an horrible story, neither can be considered "elegant". At least I can now justify my dislike for Olivia de Havilland, even when I saw it the first time I wanted her to go down with the curtains in GWTW.
Olivia de Havilland filled in for Joan Crawford at the last minute for the movie "Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte" opposite Bette Davis. Davis hated Crawford and could take it or leave it when it came to deHavilland. %0D
There is a scene where Olivia's character runs into Jewel Mayhew (Mary Astor) in the town square. Since de Havilland didn't have much time to rehearse with the cast, Davis wasn't sure de Havilland would show the surprise she should. So, she tried to get a few of the cast to go along with her to the Director and get Joan Fontainne to walk down the street as a passerby and this would surely startle de Havilland. The Director found out and wasn't having any of it. %0D
Post script to this, that can't be proven as de Havilland never told, but later the script calls for de Havilland's character to beat the stuffing out of Davis' character. Gossip is de Havilland found out about Davis' little almost-prank and when it came to filming the scene she really did let her have it. Davis does say that wasn't sound effect when she was slapping her, that was really Olivia's hand on Bette's skin. Bette said they were able to get it in two takes.%0D
Those Hollywood girls, never could get along. While I like Joan I always thought Olivia was the better actress and certainly the prettier one but they looked so much alike.
Why has neither sister chimed into this thread?\
Girls, you''re slipping!
Bullshit,R23!! Davis had too much genuine respect for DeHavilland as an actress and a personal friend to ever plan a cruel stunt like that. And, to further prove that you don''t know your ass from your elbow, it was Davis'' stand-in who took the slaps from DeHavilland in that car scene. Davis, being no fool, was not going to risk ANY actress really slapping her across the face. Look closely and you can actually tell it''s not Davis with her back to the camera as she is hit.
r11 agreed. I love both sisters but I have a soft spot for Joan when it comes to this.
Looked so much alike? I don''t think so. Fontaine was blonde and delicate-featured. DeHavilland was dark and had a broader face.
r12, are we sure that Joan never had ambition and was forced to hold back? Seems as though Olivia and/or Mother could have threatened her with all kinds of things to keep her one notch below. I''ll take Joan''s side any day in this story.
still love Livvie though
Olivia de Havilland is still interested in making movies, but apparently the studios are leery of hiring her. Plus she wants meaty roles.%0D\
She could always go the Betty White route though.
This story does make out Joan to be the smarmier of the two, though she did go her sister's aid when she was ill...and it was Joan that was slighted when Lillian died, tho the rumor was that it was not Olivia doing this but carrying out the wishes of Lillian. Note, Lillian did not leave Joan's daughter anything in her will. %0D
Still, as Hollywood legends, you would think at the Oscars they might behave and act like ladies. And the reunion's as well. Back then they were still considered Hollywood Royalty. And, clearly, Olivia was the prettier of the two. I think Joan was the plainer of the two but that's just the reason they gave the role to Olivia....at Joan's suggestion no less.%0D
I can't get over how well, for 93, Olivia looks. I don't think that's a current photo of Joan, I think I saw one recently and she looks very much similar/alike to Olivia.%0D
Wonder if the other one will go to their sister's funeral. Hah, serves them right, they should do like they did to Mary, Queen of Scotland, and Elizabeth I of England (Henry VIII was their father), another famous feuding sisters, and lay them side by side wherever they will lie. (Mary and Eliz. are laid side by side in Westminster Cathedral. Admiditidlly, Eliz' head is attached, Mary's, not so much.)%0D
I did see the interview where they asked Olivia is she would every reconcile with Joan and it looked like she was going to say something famously bitchy, but she stopped herself and said, "Better not......Better not."
Mary, Queen of Scotland was NOT the daughter of Henry VIII. Mary I, daughter of Catherine of Aragon and Henry VIII, was Queen Elizabeth I''s half sister. Queen Mary was a Catholic and Elizabether, a Protestant.
There was a fairly recent interview and photo of Joan in Vanity Fair accompanying one of those last page interviews they do in every issue. She looked every bit as good as Olivia, maybe even better and certainly slimmer. Supposedly she is a good chum of Doris Day, her Carmel neigbor and fellow dog lover.%0D\
Sorry, couldn''t find a link.%0D\
Though I''ve enjoyed them both on screen, I too, have favored Joan. Olivia always seemed to be trying too hard, even in The Heiress, The Snakepit, GWTW and her other best roles. Joan''s style was simpler and it paid off.%0D\
And I grew up watching Joan as a witty panelist on all those Goodson/Todman quiz shows like Password, To Tell the Truth, etc.
Well we know she was no Queen of MGM!\
That was and always be: NORMA SHEARER.\
I have to admit, this family drama -- which has been written about many times, really is interesting. Both of them were amazing actresses and that they both are alive is very cool. \
Joan is the only surviving cast member of "The Women" --which can''t be compared to GWTW, but is a gay favorite. \
I think their story would make an amazing movie.
Zak, suddenly a screenwriter. Wanna see my credits?
There needs to be a dual biography of these two broads, along the lines of ''The Divine Fued'' about Joan and Bette''s relationship.
Sorry R33, you''re wrong. Catherine of Aragon was Mary of Scotlands mother, both were Roman Catholic, as was Henry VIII, until he got into it with the Pope and broke away from the church and created the Church of England, which Eliz I, was raised. They declared Mary Queen of Scots not the true heir to the thrown because Henry wanted their marriage anulled and the Pope said no since she already bore an heir. He had her put to death, married #3, broke away from Rome and sent Mary to France to marry the King of France, who himself died at 18. When Henry died, Eliz I rose to the throne. However since Mary of Scotland was the first borne of England, she came back from France via Scotland to declare her right to the throne, but Eliz was already there. Eliz took the attack that unless she got rid of Mary of Scotland she might have trouble with her. So, on a ruse, she gets her to England, then locks her up for 18 years only to behead her for treason that never took place.
R34, you obviously didn''t look very hard.\
It was the first one up in a Google search for Joan Fontaine Vanity Fair.
Uh no, R37. Mary Queen of Scots was not Henry VIII''s daughter. She was the daughter of James V of Scotland, and the grand-daughter of Henry VIII''s sister, Margaret Tudor. Mary I of England was Henry VIII''s daughter. They were both Catholic, as was Mary I''s mother Catherine of Aragon.
That VF questionnaire confirms what a miserable, humorless misanthrope Joan is. Olivia dodged a bullet by not dealing with her for the last 50 years. She probably would have been dead by 60 if she had to regularly deal with that bitch.
[R37] Sorry, but Mary, Queen of Scots and Elizabeth I were first cousins (once removed). Mary, Queen of Scots was the granddaughter of Margaret Tudor, the elder sister of Henry VIII.%0D\
Mary I of England (who was in fact Catholic) was the daughter of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon - and half sister to Elizabeth I (who was Protestant - and daughter of Ann Boleyn).
No r 37 you are wrong. Mary Queen of Scots is a cousin to Mary Tudor (Mary I) and Elizabeth I.\
Mary Queen of Scots is the granddaughter of Henry VIII''s sister. Mary Tudor is the daughter that Henry had with his first wife Catherine and Eliz I is the daughter Henry had with his second wife (Anne). Henry with his 3rd wife (Jane) had a son (Edward). When Henry died , Edward took over. When Edward died with no children and his 1/2 sister Mary Tudor took over next. She too died with no children, so Eliz I became Queen of England. At no time did Mary Queen of Scots rule England, though she wanted to and was killed for treason because of her plans to.
Olivia was much prettier--and could act. Joan was a simpering bore on-screen, and a jerk off screen. Can''t say she didn''t work hard, though; she fucked David O Selznick to get that part in "Rebecca." And De Haviland would''ve done a much better job.
Actually, Zak.....I didn''t look at all. But thanks for posting!
R37 should know better than to question the DL queens knowledge about the Queens.
Olivia was one of the few women at Warner''s (or in all of Hollywood) whom Bette Davis genuinely liked and admired. That must carry some weight.%0D\
Also, DeHavilland risked her career (and was out of work for some 3 or 4 years) to wage a legal battle against Warner''s to have "suspension" clauses in studio contracts declared illegal. She won and ALL the old stars adored her for that. She said that, as a lawyer''s daughter, she wasn''t afraid of waging war in the legal system.%0D\
In case anyone was wondering, Olivia did a Vanity Fair questionnaire in 2005.
That's right, R46. De Havilland won the case that Bette Davis lost in England in 1937. She had principles and courage. She sacrificed a lot, including work and pay for three years, and risked a great deal more. Davis often said that every actor in Hollywood owed de Havilland a debt of gratitude. She freed them from perpetual servitude under the prevailing system of unlimited suspensions.
De Havilland idolized Davis. She said that Davis had the career she wished she'd had. (A lot of actresses said that.) They were good friends for over forty years. Along with Claude Rains and Geraldine Fitzgerald, de Havilland was Davis's best friend in the movie business (though she was also longtime friends with Joan Blondell, Paul Henreid, Joseph Cotten, and Robert Wagner). Have you ever seen the Bette Davis episode of This Is Your Life? It's on YouTube. De Havilland is very sweet. You can see how delighted she is to be honoring Davis. She runs onto the set like a schoolgirl, her arms fluttering. She's charming.
Both Olivia and Joan were nominated for an Academy Award for Best Actress in 1942. Joan won first for her role in Alfred Hitchcock's Suspicion (1941) over Olivia's performance in Hold Back the Dawn. Biographer Charles Higham states that Joan "felt guilty about winning given her lack of obsessive career drive...". Higham has described the events of the awards ceremony, stating that as Joan stepped forward to collect her award, she pointedly rejected Olivia's attempts at congratulating her and that Olivia was both offended and embarrassed by her behavior. Several years later, Olivia would remember the slight and exact her own revenge by brushing past Joan, who was waiting with her hand extended, because Olivia had allegedly taken offense at a comment Joan had made about Olivia's husband. Olivia's relationship with Joan continued to deteriorate after the two incidents. Charles Higham has stated that this was the near final straw for what would become a lifelong feud, but the sisters did not completely stop speaking to each other until 1975. According to Joan, Olivia did not invite her to a memorial service for their mother, who had recently died. Olivia claims she told Joan, but that Joan had brushed her off, claiming that she was too busy to attend.%0D
Charles Higham records that Joan has an estranged relationship with her own daughters as well, possibly because she discovered that they were secretly maintaining a relationship with their aunt Olivia. Both sisters have refused to comment publicly about their feud and dysfunctional family relationships.%0D
WTF are Olivia and Joan???
They both look great. Anger and bitterness is great for the skin.
[quote]She was too young to play Old Rose.\
No she wasn''t. Gloria Stuart is only six years older then de Havilland.
I saw this today and was going to post it, but with a plea to have Joan''s grandkid give us the straight scoop. Where is Joan''s grandkid anyway? \
Oh, and I was wondering what kind of dogs the five dogs are that Joan lives with in California.
The poster who said they look so much alike is crazy. Every photo I see of them especially together, I see absolutely no resemblance.
r53, I thought the poster who identified as Joan''s Grandkid was Joan Bennett''s grandson.
They don''t look anything alike.%0D\
Did they have the same father?
It must have been very hard to be sisters in old Hollywood when competition for the major roles was so fierce and stars felt they rarely had any control over their careers. %0D\
I don''t judge anyone''s relationships to their family members, it''s all extremely personal and developed for better or worse in one''s earliest formative years.While many of the resentments might seem irrational to outsiders, only those personally involved can really know the details.%0D\
Vanessa and Lynne Redgrave were also not on speaking terms for many years and only reconciled during Lynne''s very messy divorce.
I almost think that R37 was doing a parody post, satirizing a typical DL pedant. There''s just too much misinformation crammed together for it to be real.
Why haven''t their children attempted a reconcile?
I think this is too personal and real for this family. They don''t want publicity, real emotions here. However, I would like to hear all the stories from birth until death perhaps to make me feel better about my life.
Maybe the children aren''t speaking to one another either?
All there is to say to r37 is MARY!
They really need to do Oprah.
I can't figure out who's the bigger bitch, Joan or Olivia, or if only one of them is the baddie. It sounds definite that their mother had Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and maybe Olivia was the "golden child" and she castigated Joan - or maybe she went back and forth between her daughters and played the two off against each other. So grandma was awful - that's the only thing that's clear to me from those articles and having read Joan's autobiography.
The thing about narcissists is they lie like they breathe so you have to look for all the clues you can find and sometimes never figure it out. Joan having four ex-husbands and one of them calling her book, "Not a Word of Truth" is one clue that Joan's a bitch. (not that they both can't be)
BTW, I read a fairly recent interview of Vanessa Redgrave and I was shocked at how selfish she sounded - and how little she had to say about her daughter Natasha's death. And what she did say about her was how it affected HER (Vanessa) and practically nothing about Natasha as a person. I think all she said was that Natasha had always been the "merry" one in the family. Also she wished she had spent more time with her children. Ahem.
Oh, and Natasha told a story once about Vanessa. Some la di da person had had dinner with Vanessa - I think Bill Clinton or someone of that stature. The dinner guest asked what he had said to her and Vanessa replied, "That's not important. It's what I said to him that's important!" And Natasha chimed in, "jokingly", "You see what I've had to live with all my life?"
I'm pretty sure Vanessa was the bitch and Lynn was the little ugly stepsister (yeah, I know she was a full sister but she was always treated as the lesser of the famous sibs.)
"They really need to do Oprah."%0D\
YES! Or a prime-time Barbara Walters special... would have to be two hours to do it justice (the first hour-and-a-half separate interviews for the build-up, then the last half hour the two together reconciling, crying, and hugging).%0D\
This would be ratings GOLD!
Am I the only one who likes both sisters?
R58, thank god someone is paying attention on this freakin board.%0D\
I have my Master''s Degree in Anglo-European History. In fact I had to take a class on the sex lives of the Kings and Queens of England. For instance, did you know that William and Mary were both homosexual? Upon becoming pregnant with their first child Mary wrote to her lesbian lover, Frances Apsley, 5 years her senior and whom Mary often referred to as her ''husband'' in correspondence, "I have played the whore a little, because the sea parts us, you may believe that it is a bastard" She suffered a miscarriage, the first of several. When Mary died in 1694, William never remarried but took up with a notorious libertine named Arnold Joost Van Keppel. They were together until William''s death in 1702.%0D\
Anyway, its fun to spoof you guys from time to time, but really, who would believe that post at R37? Thanks R58 for restoring my faith!
Why would anyone want to do a ''spoof'' of Mary Queen of Scots lineage in a thread about Olivia de Havilland and Joan Fonataine? Hilarious. %0D\
With the state of education in this country, there are plenty of people who would believe someone as stupid as R37 would be talking seriously.
Because R68, you pompous ass, it was just fun. Its not like we were discussing anything important like British history, we''re gossiping about two movie actresses for god''s sake. %0D\
And, if anyone on this board really believed that post, its the state of education in this country, as you rightly point out, not me. %0D\
But hey, plenty of people corrected it immediately, and R58 called it. What''s your fucking problem pompous ass?%0D\
People like you can suck the air right out of a room. Bet you have heard that before...
But it wasn''t funny, R69. At all.
I don''t understand that stuff about Joan not being invited to her Mother''s memorial service. Why would she need an invitation? It was her Mother! What am I missing here?%0D\
I remember seeing Joan on an old Merv talker and she came off as very affected and insincere in her responses to queries from Merv. She ''acted'' out a lot of her answers, almost as if she were making a movie. What I have seen of Olivia, shows a much more down-to-earth person.%0D\
I also read that Joan is somewhat estranged from her kid(s) because the kid(s) tried to maintain a relationship with their Aunt Olivia.
Lynn was much more famous than Corin.
R70, (Joan) your certainly entitled to your opinion. But geez Mary, unclench your anus once in a while. Have some fun, now is as good a time as any. I forgive you, now smile for us. C''mon, you can do it...there you go a little uplift on the lip to the left...now right...there you go! Now, lets not have a silly fued like our girls Olivia and Joan.
The Tudor line ended with Elizabeth, but EVERY SINGLE English monarch starting with James I to the present Betty Windsor has a blood connection with Mary Queen of Scots.
[quote] your certainly entitled to your opinion.%0D\
Everyone shut the fuck up about Elizabeth and Mary, Queen of Scots and all the rest - stop threadjacking and get back to the real and very urgent subject at hand:%0D\
THE TWO UNDISPUTED QUEENS OF HOLLYWOOD, OLIVIA AND JOAN, AND THEIR FEUD THAT IS TEARING THIS COUNTRY APART!
Gone with the wind is on TCM now
You should start a thread stating that.
Even as a young actress Joan always had a slightly stooped countenance to her posture. I wonder now if this was due to her big sister stomping down on her neck when she was a tot.
"A Light in the Piazza" was on TCM the other day, with OdH. I liked it - especially the Italian locations.
There are some fun Mystery Guest (separate!)appearances of Joan and Olivia on What''s My Line? on youtube if anyone cares to go there.%0D\
If I remember correctly the panel narrows their guesses down to both sisters on Joan''s appearance and then.......
The WML? Troll
[quote] The Tudor line ended with Elizabeth, but EVERY SINGLE English monarch starting with James I to the present Betty Windsor has a blood connection with Mary Queen of Scots.%0D\
[R75] As the great-grandmother of James I (James VI of Scotland) was Margaret Tudor (Henry VIII''s elder sister) they also share a "blood connection" with the Tudor Dynasty...
Why do people think Joan is a bitch? Good gawd. Is it because she''s the youngest and maybe whines a little more? Well that''s what babies do. Must have a lot of "oldests" posting here. You guys just don''t understand being the youngest.
This is juicy:%0D\
"Fontaine missed the Hollywood premiere of Rebecca because she needed surgery to remove an ovarian cyst. Instead, her mother, Lillian de Havilland, accompanied Aherne to the screening. From her hospital bed, Fontaine heard gossip columnist Louella Parson''s rave about the film and Fontaine''s performance. When Parsons asked the star''s mother for her reaction, Mrs. de Havilland said, "Joan may be phony in real life, but she''s almost believable on screen" (from Sisters: The Story of Olivia de Havilland & Joan Fontaine by Charles Higham)."%0D
[quote]BTW, I read a fairly recent interview of Vanessa Redgrave and I was shocked at how selfish she sounded - and how little she had to say about her daughter Natasha''s death. And what she did say about her was how it affected HER (Vanessa) and practically nothing about Natasha as a person. \
Why would she talk about Natasha''s death or Natasha? It''s nobody''s business. It''s private, it''s personal.
But surely ovarian cysyts weren''t mentioned in print in gossip columns in 1941?%0D\
What would have been the euphemism?
The Ghost of Hedda Hopper
[quote] But surely ovarian cysyts weren''t mentioned in print in gossip columns in 1941?%0D\
What would have been the euphemism?%0D\
"Thing-a-na-bobs" on her "Watcha-ma-call-it"
R77, I''m in love with you. Your post was hysterical. Since I''m the one who started the whole thing about Elizabeth and Mary in reference to Joan and Olivia being buried side by side, I will not mention it again.%0D\
You''re (for you R76) right of course, the bigger issue is THE TWO UNDISPUTED QUEENS OF HOLLYWOOD, OLIVIA AND JOAN, AND THEIR FEUD THAT IS TEARING THIS COUNTRY APART!%0D\
Tho, I do believe there is in fact a dispute as to whether Olivia and Joan were Queens of Hollywood. I believe Bette and Joan C. would disagree.
[quote]But surely ovarian cysyts weren''t mentioned in print in gossip columns in 1941?%0D\
What would have been the euphemism?%0D\
They used to call them "crotch rocks".
Nothing ever done by Vanessa Redgrave could hold a candle to Lynne Redgrave''s performance in "Centennial."
OK, obviously they would never consider it, so it''s just a fantasy question... but if they were willing to go on Oprah, do you think Oprah would have them on? And how would the ratings be?
R87, Vanessa Redgrave was just so broken up about what''s-her-name''s death that, barely weeks later, she was back on a stage doing that Joan Didion death play "in tribute." It was the most self-serving, narcissistic and offensive "pity-me'' ploy by an actress that it has ever been my disgust to witness. The woman wouldn''t know a maternal instinct if it sat down and did an overacted scene with her.
R67, thank you for adding to the database on the value of advanced degrees in history, and the characteristics of the people who hold them. We feel validated.
We grew up with relatives being old friends of the de Havilland family - actually friends of Olivia''s and Joan''s mother and her family.\
The understanding always was that, despite everyone being very supportive of both special and famous actresses, Joan was high-strung and rather petulant, and endlessly capable of spinning defenses against anything she did. Her "I was young and my big sister was so mean to me and jealous of my success" routine wasn''t believed. Everyone knew Olivia to be genuine and decent. She simply grew tired of Joan''s neurotic brittleness, and cut her off once and for all, finally. \
Someone once used the metaphor of a cat that was adept at scratching the grass over what it did in your garden but your nose wasn''t fooled. Pretty kitty, yes. But Olivia wasn''t fooled.
With thanks to Cousin Anna H. in Chicago for all the great stories
Interesting info, R96
r96, why did Joan turn out the way she did? Hmmm?
R96, if the sisters are in their 90''s, and you were friends with their MOTHER, then you got to be the oldest poster on DL. Congrats.
R99, I grew up with relatives who were friends of their family, as I stated. These relatives are now dead. My cousin, Anna, for example, was born in 1901, and another who was especially close to their mother and who babysat for the girls - honest - was born in the 1880s. Anna was the one who told me the stories - she lived into her late 90s.
The larger circle of acquaintances they had included people who knew the family in Japan - missionaries who moved back to the U.S. after the de Havillands moved to California (I always had the impression they didn't move straight to California from Japan but may have been somewhere else first, but I may be mistaken). The friends rallied around the girls' mother when she divorced their father and stayed in touch after she remarried.
R98, I can only guess about Joan, like everyone else. I didn't know them, of course, and what I know is second-hand and only interesting (to me, anyway) because it is separate from the usual published material. Joan was sickly and catered to, but still felt like she never got enough attention. That's the impression I had.
Wasn''t Joan the first actress to replace Ginger Rogers as Fred Astaire''s dance partner at RKO? Can''t remember the name of the film but it has the song A Foggy Day (in Londontown...) and costars Burns and Allen.%0D\
She was also quite lovely as the ingenue in Gunga Din.%0D\
These were several years before she was rediscovered by Selznick for Rebecca.
 "Damsel In Distress"
R95, glad I could be of service...you snarky little bitch. I can see you have little education, in schoor or in life.
Lynne always had much greater range than Vanessa.
Serious question: So is the general consensus that Olivia was the better actress? No performance of Joan''s seems to be as acclaimed and lauded as Olivia''s in THE HEIRESS still is.
Joan''s problem is that in most of her biggest roles....Rebecca, Suspicion and Jane Eyre....she played rather passive and vulnerable characters. \
None of those roles had the turnabout payoff that Catherine Sloper at the end of The Heiress has.
Happily Audrey and Jayne Meadows made up before they expired.
This is probably why they don''t speak. Constant comparison.
"None of those roles had the turnabout payoff that Catherine Sloper at the end of The Heiress has."\
Have you actually seen "Rebecca"? It''s all about a "turnabout payoff".
"I am Mrs. DeWinters now!"
Did Audrey and Jayne not get along? I can''t find anything about them on the ''net.
If there had been an Internet during the days of the Vanessa-Lynne feud and Audrey-Jayne feud, we would have a lot more information.
And what about the notorious Audrey and Judy Landers feud?
Yes R112. I think Audrey ate Judy''s pet lobster.
On Oprah, November 19.
Explain your post r114.
R67, are you sure Frances Apsley was Mary''s lover and not her sister Anne''s lover? Ok, just did an internet search and turns out both Mary and Anne were after Frances.\
Anyway, what all this discussion of the Tudors shows is that there were an awful lot of queens named Mary.
I bet Livvie is delighted that the old, amateurish relic Gloria Stuart finally kicked the bucket this week. Titanic was rightfully hers!
I was thinking the other day, about the site "The A List," and they have Olivia as bisexual. Surely Joan would have spilt the beans, assuming she knew. Anyone else read this about Olivia?
Joan was an extremely limited actress, who only got the Rebecca part because she was blowing David O Selznick, according ot his biographer David Thomson. When you read her biography, it''s incredible the minute stuff she finds to feel self-pitying about, or to point out as others'' flaws. %0D\
Olivia could *act*, and was twice the beauty of her pale sister.
BUMP... Sorry I just don''t see Joan as the blowing type. Her mama didn''t raise no fool.
I agree that Olivia was the better actress, but Joan was excellent in "Rebecca", "Suspicion", & "The Women" -- also quite good in "Born to be Bad". Not a lot of range, but did a fine job within her limits.
Never heard about their feud. Joan Fontaine was gay.
I'll always love Livvie for "Hush Hush, Sweet Charlotte."
Oliva and Joan, if one or both of you are reading this than please listen to me. I'm only 13 years old, but I think I know a little about sisters, since I have a twin. We get mad at eachother, but I can't imagine never talking to her. I don't know what happened with you two, I know some hurtful things happened when you were children. But please make up. Before its too late.
Here, Canadian gay icon Hana Gartner interviews Joan in 1979 regarding her relationship with Olivia.
As a bonus, Hana's don't-fuck-with-me eyewear.
The last time I saw Joan Fontaine on a screen was when she did that guest appearence on the NBC soap Bare Essence. That was back in the early 80s. The last time I saw Olivia de Havilland was on a 60 Minutes piece a couple of months ago - it was a story on the importance of the culture of France, and the guy being interviewed was seen at a party in Paris in which de Havilland, a supporter of te arts, was a guest. She looked remarkable, and we heard her speak. She looked in fine form for any acting gig.