Not sure if I am aware of this case. When the game is over I''ll do my research and report back.
I never thought they were guilty but there is no way a district attorney will ever admit, they they had the wrong people on trail. District Attorneies never think they made a mistake. I have no use for any of them.
Those boys need some good old fashioned Southern justice.
They have been denied another trial. The courts won''t give them a chance.
I can''t believe they''ve been denied another trial when the evidence is so overwhelming that they didn''t do it - and that that one stepfather of one of the boys did do it with his friend.
What''s up with Natalie Maines haircut? Gay?
Just another sad story of the American injustice system.
r2 here. So the stepfather of one of the boys did it? Damn shame, I covered the Innocence Project and the (in)Justice System last semester in grad school. It is shocking how much we take for granted that turned out to have occurred. Forensic examiners lying, fabricating evidence, buying testimony, coercion, just all types of glaring incidences. You assume "this" person would never lie because they're a professional or if the evidence (or new evidence) pointed to innocence of course they'd get another trial. No. I saw cases that had a person convicted off of the testimony of ONE person and the person (maybe ME, expert witness,cop, private citizen) was found to be lying, later. You'd think that'd automatically get your some relief but that's not always the case. You all remember the two medical examiners who were putting bite marks (they'd get bite mark impressions taken of the suspect/family member) and actually manually put them on to the victims, including a 2 year old girl. No one saw the bite marks ON HER FACE until after they'd gotten to her, yet they still were getting away with it.
I watch quite a few true crime programs and it is so painfully obvious that the district attorney''s office wants to convict no matter how slim the evidence just to get a win. Even when DNA evidence has exonerated the convicted party or witnesses recant or whatever, the DA is so sure of the accused''s culpability because of their "gut feeling." Yeah, a guilt feeling they pulled out of thie ass.
I have read tons of info on the case an peripheral characters involved and don''t understand how anyone looking at the solid facts could not think they are guilty. They are guilty. All of the evidence points to them. Having Johnny Depp on your side and writing poetry doesn''t make you innocent. I''m glad they were denied again. And hope that''s the end of the story. "Damien" is a sick fuck and none of this would have ever been contested if he weren''t able to appear charming to people with no sociopath detector. They murdered those kids. And "Damien" was ringleader as he''s ringleading all the naive supporters to this day. Seriously, look objectively at the evidence.
R12 is right! There''s no way someone who dresses like that isn''t into child rape and murder for Satan''s glory!
R12 What evidence? Which solid facts?
R12 is one of those old women who think..."when the police arrest you, you''re guilty".
"Seriously, look objectively at the evidence."\
Take your own advice R12.\
Innocent or guilty, the real problem here is the denial of a new trial or an official review of the case. That the case on both the police end and trial end was botched beyond fuck all is clear.
I grew up spending a fair amount of time with my grandmother over in Memphis, TN. %0D
Memphis, TN. is very close to West Memphis, Arkansas and so some things which happen over in Arkansas are covered by the local media of Memphis. %0D
I barely remember the news coverage for the West Memphis Three. %0D
What I barely remember is that Damien made some rather disturbing claims while being questioned and all of that. He also was rather sarcastic during the original trial to the point of no return. I mean, the kid dressed like a long lost member of Motorhead or something during his trial for goodness sake. He showed no respect to the court.%0D
The only thing I know for sure is that the one fellow (Miskelley, I think it is) who is intellectually disabled should never have been questioned for hours and hours on end all by himself like that. I mean, if you have the intellectual capacity of a fifth grader or so, you have no business being questioned like that without a social worker or someone at the ready. That is horrible. %0D
I think that Damien is out to save Damien. But, the thing is that he acted a fool way back when during the first go around and everything and that is what will haunt him. %0D
As the previous poster said, they deserve a new trial. There is no way these guys killed those children.
When I read about teens being interrogated and not knowing courtroom protocol as part of the evidence of their guilt, I go back to the Central Park Jogger case when those black teens were convicted and sentenced and they were innocent. I watched the two documentaries, and I''ve looked at the websites that support the boys and I can''t help but think that they are not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That stepfather is enough reasonable doubt in my mind. The sites I''ve seen that do not support the boys and present evidence that they are guilty.... their logic is so flawed that it has zero credibility.
This case literally makes my blood boil. I feel panicky when I think of them in jail.\
I don''t trust our legal system at all. Two of the stupidest, most conniving and racist assholes I went to high school with are now Assistant DA''s.
[quote]This case literally makes my blood boil. %0D\
Wow, R20, I literally worship your stamina. To be capable of caring about three convicts while your blood is boiling--well, I salute you!
w12, I don''t see how anyone can read all the evidence and NOT come to the conclusion that they are innocent.\
And how do you explain the stepfather''s DNA - and that of his friend - that was found at the murder site?
There's no definitive proof that they did it. There's also no definitive proof that they DIDN'T do it. %0D
Their supporters seem desperate to pin the murders on SOMEBODY. For a time it was John Mark Byers, adoptive father of one of the murder victims. Now it seems to be Terry Hobbs, stepfather of one of the murder victims. And let's not forget "Mr. Bojangles", a disoriented, dazed, bleeding, incontinent black man who was reported seen inside the ladies room of a Mr. Bojangles restaurant not far from the murder scene. "Mr. Bojangles" someone managed to slip away before being questioned. Supposedly a hair determined to belong to an African American was found in a sheet one of the murder victims had been wrapped in. Yeah, that's right...THE BLACK GUY DID IT!%0D
Actually, I tend to think "Mr. Bojangles" was probably the victim of a crime. A victim of whoever killed the three boys, maybe? Maybe that's how the African American hair got in the sheet, maybe it was "Mr. Bojangles" who the intended victim; maybe he was restrained with the sheet and managed to get away. It's a possibility. And maybe the killer or killer decided to settle for three little boys instead of a black man. %0D
Damien Echols...he is one of the most chilling personalities I've ever seen, right up there with Charles Manson in terms of creepiness. If you comment on his dead eyes and lack of affect his supporters shriek "well, how would you act if you'd been on Death Row for 13 years?!!" Actually he was that way long before he got sent to Death Row; a doctor testifying for the defense said that Echols had "serious mental illness characterized by grandiose and persecutory delusions, auditory and visual hallucinations, disordered thought processes, substantial lack of insight, and chronic, incapacitating mood swings." In other words, he's crazy as shit. After seeing him in interviews I believe that Damien is capable of anything.%0D
Eddie Vedder of Pearl Jam says there''s new evidence that could free them. I have to hand it to him, he''s been a vocal supporter of those boys for a long time.
[quote]There''s no definitive proof that they did it. There''s also no definitive proof that they DIDN''T do it. \
Well, that certainly adds up to "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt". Throw away the key, I guess.
I''ve seen Echols in interviews, and I don''t see the "dead, empty eyes" at all.\
He clearly didn''t do it. Terry Hobbs, whose DNA (as well as that of his best friend), was found at the murder scene, probably did. Hobbs also lied about not seeing the boys that afternoon. A neighbor saw him speaking with them just before they disappeared.
[quote] how do you explain the stepfather''s DNA \
The stepfather''s hair found in his stepson''s shoelace? The shoelaces he helped him tie every day? I wonder how that could have possibly gotten there.
I always preferred Mark Coen''s version of that song to Cher''s
I feel bad for the mentally disabled kid. Even if he is guilty he can''t be convicted as a normal person, that''s just obscene.
Who is the trailer trash who keeps saying they are guilty? Even two of the parents of the murdered kids support them now. \
You have to be an idiot to believe that Echols et al are guilty.
Is it possible Echols is guilty, but not the other two?
No. They''re all three innocent.
"No. They''re all three innocent."%0D\
You don''t know any such thing, you idiot West Memphis Three groupie. %0D\
The people who think they are guilty are all redneck, unintelligent scum.
[quote]right up there with Charles Manson in terms of creepiness\
"Creepiness" is inadmissible in a court of law, r23.
They deserve a new trial. Their guilt wasn''t proved beyond a reasonable doubt. I don''t care about the rock''n''rollers. I just think a town in the Bible Belt was too quick to accuse and use Satanic worship as an excuse.\
I too feel sorry for the MR teen. His life must be he''ll in prison.
Isn''t stepdad a snitch for the cops? It''s a small town full of inbred hicks that decided to blame the kids that wore black and listened to Metallica.
R38 Step-dad was a snitch; now he''s dead, as is his wife, who died under very mysterious circumstances.
"The stepfather''s hair found in his stepson''s shoelace? The shoelaces he helped him tie every day? I wonder how that could have possibly gotten there."\
The hair from Hobbs was knotted in the shoelace ligature used to bind the boys.
No DNA? That seems odd. No one fought against the killer?
There is no reason that they can''t get another trial...except for creepy DA, who refuses to have his case overturned.
[quote]The stepfather''s hair found in his stepson''s shoelace? The shoelaces he helped him tie every day? I wonder how that could have possibly gotten there.\
It wasn''t found on his stepson''s shoelace. It was found on the shoelace ligature used to bind another boy. The ligature had been made from the boys own shoelaces. \
There is no evidence against the West Memphis Three. None. \
The people convinced of Damien Echols guilt because he''s "creepy" and an "obvious psycho". Seriously? He looked like your average Goth when he was a teen, and now he''s been on death row for 16 years, where he was repeatedly raped. I think most people in his situation would look a little dead eyed.
You should always teach your children to fight, tooth and nail. Believe me, I know what I''m talking about. Don''t let them be submissive.
Cold Case did a ripped from the headlines about this case. Turns out it was the dad with rage issues.
Echols is guilty. I think the non-mentally delayed man is guilty, too. I don''t know if you can honestly hold the 3rd guy guilty.
"The people who think they are guilty are all redneck, unintelligent scum.''%0D\
The people who think they are all innocent are all myopic, retarded douchebags like you. %0D\
How could Echols have been raped on Death Row?Seriously, I thought Death Row was the safest & most segregated place in prison; basically, twenty-three hours in an isolated cell with only one hour out for exercise.%0D\
They should be granted a new trial if only to put it all to rest.%0D\
And now, WHEN will they look at the Missing Three Springfield Women case? The hospital parking lot should be scanned....
New trials (AKA, appeals) are usually granted based on trial transcripts.%0D\
I don''t care about celebrity endorsements, not since "In the Belly of the Beast."
Was the denial of a new trial a recent development?
Hope this isn''t another Mumia Jamal Whateverthefuck situation . . .
[quote] No DNA? That seems odd. No one fought against the killer?\
The bodies were discovered in a creek; the water washed away the DNA evidence.
Whether he was involved or not the person that always freaked me the fuck out was John Mark Byers
"Whether he was involved or not the person that always freaked me the fuck out was John Mark Byers."%0D
Originally it was thought that HE was the murderer of the three boys. Now he's not considered a suspect. And he supports the West Memphis Three! Everybody involved in this case is fucked up!%0D
Now Terry Hobbs is supposed to be the killer. It's like the supporters of these three very strange young men can't make up their minds who to pin the murders on: "it was Byers! No, wait...it's Hobbs! Or maybe it was Mr. Bojangles...anyway, The West Memphis Three are innocent, innocent, INNOCENT!"%0D
I can't stand it when celebrities stick their noses into something like this. Usually the prisoner (s) they support are the scum of the earth.%0D
By the way, Damien Echols was not "repeatedly raped" in prison. That's just a lie his supporters like to tell to make it seem like this sweet, innocent young man been tortured and mistreated while imprisoned for something he didn't do. And Echols was not an "average Goth." He was profoundly sick. BEFORE the murders he would talk about killing and EATING his father and slashing the throat of his mother. While on trial for capital murder he sat in the courtroom nonchalantly combing his hair. There is something very, very wrong with Damien Echols. %0D
Let me tell you all something from someone who knows; that biased, half truth, so called bullshit documentary Paradise Lost was slanted to make them look innocent. There were no interview of anyone that went to school with Echols, wanna know why? because all the students and teachers that knew that douche bag would tell you he was GUILTY! He talked about killing kids before at his high school. That is why he was alienated by his peers, they knew he was a really fucked up individual. I know several people that he went to school with and I heard what a freak he was before the murders ever happened. Eddie Veder is a stupid asshole who will attach his name to any "cause" to get his name in the press. He is a pathetic has been. They will rot in jail where they belong.
Oh, please, r56. Yeah, right you KNOW.\
You''re full of shit. You know NOTHING.
r56 - SO basically you''re just saying that Echols was unpopular in high school. That was an amazing revelation. Thanks.
I knew people that new him, I knew of him before the murders ever happened. I lived in Memphis at the time. What is so hard for you to understand? When the murders happened no one doubted his guilt and more importantly he never denied his guilt when it first happened. But if you want to believe he is an innocent soul go right ahead, because the bastard will never be released no matter how many "celebs" want him to be. He is were he belongs.
r56 - Because you heard second hand that the guy is weird, he must be guilty of murder?
This thread is the perfect encapsulation of how idiotic people in this country are. Just because some celebrities decide that these three are innocent, and embark upon a propaganda campaign to free them, they MUST be innocent.
Echols is guilty. He's clearly a sociopath. And, more importantly, he was CONVICTED of the crime. A sociopath is often able to prey upon others with weak minds, in order to use them as accomplices. That's what happened here.
You're SO completely convinced that these three are innocent, that you're willing to believe anyone else might have done it...even if there's virtually no evidence to support it. That's because these celebrity cases end up making stars of the scumbags who committed the crime, and this is a society that venerates stars, and believes them guilty of nothing.
Echols is guilty. Period. He duped the other two into being accomplices. Period. The end. They were convicted and are in jail, where they belong. You sad, pathetic celebrity worshipers are the same ilk who thought OJ was innocent. You're pathetic.
People don''t want to believe the truth. They want to believe Depp.\
1.Damien Echols wasn''t just some heavy metal kid they demonized. He had already been hospitalized for mental illness. He was found to have severe behavioral problems including severe aggression towards others.\
2.He brutally killed and mutilated a dog. That dog''s corpse was found. Someone witnessed the mutilation. A second dog''s skull was found in his room, after his arrest.\
3. He told therapists that he gained power from drinking blood.\
4.His mental illness was so severe that he was receiving disability benefits because of it.\
r62 - Where is this documented?
Let''s move on to Jessie''s "forced confession". That''s bullshit. He didn''t just confess once. He confessed MULTIPLE times.\
1. The first confession was not after he''d been in detention for 12 hours...it was a couple of hours after he was in custody.\
2. He didn''t confess once. He confessed TWICE while he was being taped. He later confessed to some prison guards too. During his 2nd confession, his attorneys can be heard on the tape, pleading with him NOT to confess...yet he confessed anyway.\
3. According to his 2nd confession, he''d drunk so much whiskey that he got physically ill. But he still remembered participating in the crime.
R63- it came out in the trial. In newspapers, dear, in the trial coverage. You mean Johnny Depp and Eddie Vedder aren''t telling people this part? You can find it all online. It''s all part of the trial record.
Will it kill you bitches to provide a link.
1. All three had shaky alibis.\
2.Jason Baldwin made a "jailhouse confession" while incarcerated.\
3.The knife was found behind Jason Baldwin''s house.\
4. Girls who knew Damien testified at the trial that he confessed the crime in their presence.\
5.Two types of blood...neither of which was his own...were found on Damien''s necklace.\
6.Jessie became despondent after the muders, and frequently broke into crying spells.
Here''s lots of info on Damien. He wasn''t just some kid who wore black and listed to heavy metal music. That''s bullshit.
R66- I just provided a link. Would it kill the people here who are ABSOLUTELY SURE that these three are "innocent" to actually do a little research online before declaring Eddie Vedder a champion of truth and justice?
Here''s the affidavit that Echols doctor provided in regards to his mental illness...he was a DEFENSE witness...
From the affidavit...
8. My findings include the following:
a. Mr. Echols has a serious mental illness characterized by grandiose and persecutory delusions, auditory and visual hallucinations, disordered thought processes, substantial lack of insight, and chronic, incapacitating mood swings;
b. Mr. Echols%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99 mental illness was established before the offense and subsequent legal proceedings. The Social Security Administration determined that Mr. Echols was 100% disabled due to mental impairment and granted him full disability benefits;
c.Mr. Echols%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99 mental illness made him incompetent to stand trial. The stress, complexity, and adversarial nature of the trial compounded the effects of his mental illness. He was not able to understand rationally and respond appropriately to the many demands of the prolonged legal proceedings. He could not adequately appreciate or consistently articulate the nature and gravity of the charges against him. He did not understand the role of his counsel and could not assist his counsel or investigators in identifying critical evidence or a viable theory of defense. His grandiose and paranoid delusions left him unable to make rational decisions and grossly distorted his perception of the purpose and possible outcomes of the trial.
d. Mr. Echols%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99 mental status worsened with time. He developed a psychotic euphoria that caused him to believe he would evolve into a superior entity, would be assisted by similar deities, and eventually would be transported to a different world. His psychosis dominated his perceptions of all aspects of the court proceedings. He developed delusions of reference in which he believed every event or movement, regardless how insignificant, was a potential %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Csign%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D that the deities were attempting to show him the pathway to the other world where he would join other entities like himself. As a result Mr. Echols was extremely hyper vigilant and anxious but at the same time completely unable to attend to the critical aspects of his death penalty trial.
e. Mr. Echols had no control over his mental illness, nor did he possess the skills or insight to militate his psychosis or delusions prior to or during his trial. His mental illness, combined with his immaturity and the enormous stress of his charges, incarceration and trial substantially impaired his perception of reality. Lack of insight, low tolerance for stress and immaturity are strong characteristic features of chronic mental illness."
17. Prior to and during his trial, Mr. Echols heard %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Cvoices that were not really voices%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D and he %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Cwas not sure if it was a voice inside%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D his head or %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Csomebody else%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s voice.%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D He thought it %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Cwas nearly impossible%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D to tell if it was his voice or somebody/something else. He experienced visual hallucinations that %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Cwere personifications of others. They were like smoke, changing shape but present and constant.%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D The personifications had specific names and activities. One was %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9CMorpheus Sandman%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D who was a hybrid of a human being and a god. Another example was %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9CWashington crossing the Delaware.%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D Mr. Echols saw Washington cross the Delaware with %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9CHermes on the boat.%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D Hermes was able to cross with Washington because %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9CHermes was moving backwards through time.%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D Mr. Echols came to believe that he was the same as these personifications, %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Cmade of the same material and from the same place.%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D"
More from the affidavit...note the word "psychosis"...and keep in mind that he was given disability benefits for his severe mental illness when he was 18 years old...
"55. Mr. Echols%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99 abject mental illness, which began in late childhood and early adolescence, is abundantly documented in mental health and state agency records, evaluations and collateral accounts that well precede the offense. The many diagnoses and unsuccessful treatment efforts indicate a virulent disease that required long term intervention, and careful follow-up care, which Mr. Echols did not receive. As a result, Mr. Echols remained mentally ill at the time of his arrest in June of 1993 and throughout the time he was awaiting trial. His perception, judgment and behavior were grossly distorted by paranoid and grandiose delusions, delusions of reference, and hallucinations. He believed his arrest was an omen that supernatural entities would soon arrive to transport him to another world where he could live among beings like himself, who could understand and accept him. Far from being able to appreciate the grave charges against him, Mr. Echols believed his arrest signified his imminent metamorphosis and ultimate liberation. He described visual and auditory hallucinations: the beings %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Ccommunicated%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D with him -- often through the words and actions of others -- and revealed themselves to him through a series of elaborate scenes that included a host of eerie and dour characters. Mr. Echols%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99 thought disorder prevented him from making sense of and meaningfully participating in the complex tasks involved in preparing his murder trial: he had no understanding of the complex and painstaking process involved in identifying and developing a viable theory of defense or defeating the prosecution%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s case. He was not able to assist his attorneys in developing a comprehensive investigative plan, and could not assess strategies of jury selection, opening statements, direct and cross examination, and closing arguments. His problems with memory and concentration, and his preoccupation with being transported to another world, prevented him from providing critical life history information that was essential for the penalty phase of his trial. Rather than assisting in his defense, Mr. Echols spent his time touching each brick in his cell to find the %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Csecret passage%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D to the other world.
56. It is undisputed that unmanageable stress exacerbates psychosis. Mr. Echols%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99 behavior during trial is completely consistent with the course of psychosis in the presence of constant stress. Cameras in the courtroom, reporters, the constant flurry of activity, lack of predictability and general hostility directed toward him all contributed to Mr. Echols%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99 tenuous contact with reality. He was confused and hyper vigilant. He saw every stimulus as a potential vehicle to the other world. For example, he believed the courtroom itself, and any person - regardless how superfluous their role in the legal process - or event as a possible sign of his impending journey to the %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Cother world.%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D He was inundated with overwhelming sights, sounds, smells and behaviors, but lacked any ability to discern accurately the meaning of the events around him. As the trial wore on and pressure mounted Mr. Echols became increasingly despondent that he had not been transported to the world his %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Centities%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D had promised him. He blamed himself and desperately increased his efforts to find the key that would allow him to be with those like himself. His magical obsession with finding a passage to the other world kept him constantly aroused and alert, but with a distorted and myopic view of the activities around him."
"58. Mr. Echols%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99 thinking at the time of his trial appears to have been disorganized and delusional in all domains. Despite his entrenched belief he would be transported to another world, he married his pregnant girlfriend, who subsequently gave birth to a son. This usually joyous event instead became another vehicle for Mr. Echols%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99 complex delusions. His reaction to his son%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s birth reflects psychotic thinking and lack of contact with reality. Notes Mr. Echols wrote about his son are consistent with psychosis:\
I found out my son was born. The Spirits wont leave me alone. They surround me constantly. I think the baby stole my soul. . . .I saw my son for the First time yesturday [sic] something happened when I looked at him. I don%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t think I was supposed to see him."
"68a Mr. Echols oscillated between grandiose, paranoid and persecutory delusions of such proportion and duration that he was unable to understand consistently or meaningfully participate in the proceedings against him:
[I believe] I was the God of the New Eon and that no one could never touch me. ..[I believed I had to] slay myself. But I will be back, I will rise again in three Days. Just like the first God. [The trial against me] is the beginning of an apocalypse and The war will start in 94 - the world ends in 96. [I am] the new Messiaha. [sic]
69a Mr. Echols became obsessed with his grandiose and persecutory delusions, and began to began to demonstrate delusions of reference as well.
[E]very one stared at me like I was some kind of freak. . .Everyone knew I didn%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t belong there. . . .[T]hey hate me because God hates me. Because he knows I can beat him so he tries to kill me Every chance he Gets. . . .They don%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t understand they can%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t beat me and God still tries everything he can to kill me but he cant. Death cant stop me. I would be only the third person in history to raise from the Dead. Lazarus, Jesus Christ, Damien. I will prove it very soon. . . .[T]hey think I don%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t know they%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99re watching me. They think I don%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t know about the spies and bugs. I do. . . .I%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99ve got spies too.
70a Mr. Echols wrote about the visual and auditory hallucinations dating to childhood and continuing throughout the trial:
I remember when I was very young. One night I woke up and there was some one in my bed. It scared me so bad I couldn%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t even move. When I snapped out of it I Jumped out of Bed and Ran to my mothers room. I told her and she went to my Room and looked. She said there was nobody there. She said there was no way someone could have gotten in without her knowing it. . . .I can Remember one Night, when I was a little older and I woke up to see a man, standing in my room. It paralyzed me. I wouldn%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t even blink because I knew as soon as I opened my eyes he would Be right in my face. I guess later I must have passed out because the next thing I knew it was the next morning. . . .no one believed me. . . .I thought people may be right. But I changed my mind one night when there was an old man in my room. I thought If I just ignored him he would go away. But when I looked again he was right in front of me. He licked my hand and said, %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9CDoes that feel like a Dream to you.%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D He talked for awhile of things that arn%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t [sic] important yet.
71a The hallucination of the old man was a recurring theme in Mr. Echols%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99 writings. Mr. Echols saw and heard the old man and believed him to be an integral part of Mr. Echols%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99 transformation:
This morning when I woke up my eyes wher [sic] stuck open. I must have slept that way. My heart was beating so hard it was vibrating my head. I went to Hell. It was not a dream. I was really there. It wasn%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t that bad. The old man took me there. He is my constant companion now. My new name is baalbasath. We are leaving soon now.
72a Another apparition Mr. Echols wrote about was %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9CRosey,%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D a superior being who took Mr. Echols %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Csome where every night Now.%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D Rosey put Mr. Echols . . .in a horse. It felt so good to just run and run. I never wanted to stop. He said we%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99ll do lots of fun things from now on. He says he has to show me a lot of stuff before October. . .[He told me not] to worry about anything any body says to me or does. . .
73a Mr. Echols was so plagued with hallucinations, delusions and dissociative symptoms that his health suffered during the trial.
[s]omething is very wrong here!. . .[I think I am] having a nervous breakdown. . ..Today I have a splitting headache. I feel like I got a hangover.
It%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s cause Rosey won%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t let me sleep that much. . . .I don%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t feel very well today. I%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99m getting sick. Every time me and Rosey do something it makes me Really Sleepy and hungry. Once I even got a Nose bleed."
Can you explain why they don''t have 1 bit of dna R74? It''s the same with Amanda Knox, there is just no physical evidence indicating they were where the murder took place. DNA has been uncovered but none of it matching the 3 who were convicted. The dna matches the Stepfather. %0D\
You''ve got all this, "Well he acted funny. He was a weirdo. People hated him." Then you''ve got a coerced confession of someone who is mentally challenged. That''s just not enough to convict someone unless the jury is convicting based on emotion.
He can''t explain it because the wingnuts like him just ignore facts like that and go with "the weirdo done it!"
Which step-father was a police informant and is now dead?
1. All three had shaky alibis.
2.Jason Baldwin made a "jailhouse confession" while incarcerated.
3.The knife was found behind Jason Baldwin's house.
4. Girls who knew Damien testified at the trial that he confessed the crime in their presence.
5.Two types of blood...neither of which was his own...were found on Damien's necklace.
6.Jessie became despondent after the muders, and frequently broke into crying spells.
The "jailhouse confession" was a lie, pronounced by some guy who wanted time off for his own crime. Complete bullshit.
The girls who made those allegations in the trial recanted, and said that they were lying.
You're just spouting off the prosecutions case. That Echols had a mental problem was never in dispute. But people with mental problems don't necessarily kill. The most logical conclusion for a child killing is almost always that the parents did it. Why would Echols kills 3 boys? Is there anywhere in all that psychology stuff to indicate that he fixated on children? On boys?
[quote]5.Two types of blood...neither of which was his own...were found on Damien''s necklace.[/quote]\
[quote]On the night of Damien''s arrest, a necklace he was wearing was taken in as evidence and sent away for testing as there appeared to be blood spots on it. The results of these tests were not available when other evidence had been presented at the trial so the prosecution asked for a continuance in order to obtain these results. The continuance was granted and the court reconvened two days later. The minute quantities of genetic material present for testing meant that only the blood types present could be determined. It was found that one spot was consistent with the blood type of Damien and the second spot was consistent with the blood type shared by both Jason Baldwin and Steven Branch, and 11% of the world''s population.[/quote]
I just read that affidavit. It specifies Echol's mental history and childhood. In not one instance does it mention one moment where Echol's is violent. Quite the opposite. He was placed in hospitals after severe depressions or suicide attempts. His diagnosis in those hospitals are all depression and psychosis related, i.e., no mental health professional ever diagnosed him as a sociopath.
Read the fucking affidavit if you're going to post it as some evidence pointing to his crime. You'll see that the guy was severely disturbed, had mental illness, but completely nonviolent. As almost all people with mental problems.
35. Despite his often bizarre and disorganized behavior, Mr. Echols has no history of childhood violence or aggression. To the contrary, he was ostracized by other children and made the butt of jokes. His pronounced apathy and passivity made him a routine target for cruel jokes. He never resisted these humiliating gestures. On one occasion several children told him to suck a rock; he responded without question. Another time he was told to walk down a school hallway without shoes; he did so. He was considered odd, different, separate from his cohort. Instead of gaining a sense of efficacy and esteem through interaction with his peers, Mr. Echols%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99 social experiences reinforced his sense of being damaged and useless. The lack of connection with caring peers and adults who could see and intervene in his many problems likely contributed to his mounting mental illness.
A second trial is deserved. Their civil rights were not given them. The police manipulated young people who were easily manipulated.
That file on Damien Echol''s at R68...on 9/10/92 this was noted: "Referral to Charter by Jerry Driver. Had been in Detention Center. Sucked blood of inmate." SUCKED BLOOD OF INMATE? Damien Echols is batshit crazy and should be locked up for the rest of his miserable life. %0D\
By the way, his real name is Michael. He changed it to Damien. Hm...I wonder why. It''s not a common name. In fact, I''ve only heard it in a couple of movies: "The Exorcist (the doomed priest Damien Karras)" and "The Omen." In "The Omen" the spawn of the devil is named "Damien." I guess Michael Echols felt some real empathy for a movie character that was born of a jackal and was sent to destroy humankind. Of course he denies that he chose the name because it was the name of the devil-child. I don''t think I believe him.
r82 - \
You sound like an idiot.
R82 You''re a loon. Seek help.
You know, R82, if you''re curious about something, you don''t have to merely wonder and wallow in your ignorance. You can research things and find them out. \
If you had done so in this case, you would have learned that Michael''s name was changed to Damien at the time he was adopted by his stepfather, that Damien himself, who was experimenting with Catholicism, chose the name Damien in honor of Father Damien of Molokai, and that Father Damien was a 19th century Dutchman canonized for his work with lepers.
R83, you sound like a retard. No, wait...you ARE one.%0D
R84, go suck Damien Echol's asshole. You know you want to. %0D
R85...you'll believe anything that weirdo freak says won't you? I know what that asshole said; that he changed his name to Damien after the priest who took care of lepers and eventually died of the disease himself. Damien Echols is a sociopath. He'll say anything, and there are plenty of idiots out there who are stupid enough to believe him.%0D
This is from a letter he sent to Gloria Shettles, an investigator for his defense team:%0D
"Everyone will pay because everyone is too stupid to open their eyes. This is the final time and I am the new messiah. My body is changing but that medicine is making it happen a lot more slowly than normal. I am outgrowing my skin. I am eating packs of sugar and Kool-Aid to give my body extra energy it needs to make its change. Soon people will be able to know I am the Christ. I always knew I was different from other children."%0D
When asked to "explain that" he said "I don't know" and lamely surmised that maybe it was part of a short story he was writing at the time. "I consider myself a writer...I have had several things published" he bragged. %0D
The Damien Echols fangurls at R83, R84 and R85 are pathetic. Groupies of convicted murderers are the dumbest cunts in the world.
Damien Echols was on The View today. Can someone explain his dark glasses, black shirt, black hair, and tattoos? He brings out that "creep" factor.
He is mentally ill, and has been in and out of institutions. Has a long record of bizarre behavior. Don't know the details of the trial evidence, but his courtroom behavior (staring at jurors, laughing maniacally etc.) makes you wonder.
Details of his history of mental illness at link. Hard to imagine why someone would file his nails to points. He clearly has an interest in the occult and has threatened/attacked people in the past. sounds psychotic.
It's weird how none of this is mentioned. The fame/bookselling machine is more important.
R87 He claims he is almost blind because of what his diet was like in prison. What he will never speak of is that he converted to various religions while in prison. One of them was Zen Buddhism. He put in a request for a vegetarian diet for his meals and did not like what was offered and so he lived off of chips ad such instead. Arkansas is totally the Bible Belt but the prison actually did handle his request for his new diet, he just did not like what they offered up.
I have no idea was he is now dressing like Johnny Cash but I do know that he works as a tattoo artist sometimes (which means that he sure as hell is not almost blind) and got some of his tattoos while visiting Peter Jackson of all people.
He's a weird dude. The other two fellows seem to be doing alright all things considered.
I never understood how Damien claimed that he was raped innumerable times, imprisoned in subhuman conditions, put in "the hole" multiple times, in failing health and almost near death at points, and rendered almost blind in prison- and yet went to a party held in the honor of the WM3 by their supporters hours after having been released from prison. You'd think he would have immediately gone to the hospital, right?
Like I say. Weird dude.
Yeah, he's strange R90, but he's not a killer. All the evidence points at someone else.
R91 I did not make one mention of that. I only pointed out how he is truly a rather odd duck.
I am neutral on the whole WM3 thing personally. That whole thing was handled rather bizarrely from the break if you were to ask me and that is all I will state on that.
Larry King still has a show?
I read his book. Honestly, there was a lot of bullshit in there. Some of the stuff he writes about other death row inmates is clearly lies just based on timelines from a google search. I wondered why no one caught any of that on edit. Weird. The dude was creepy when he went into prison not suprising that he came out of it creepy too. That, of course, does not mean he is a murderer. If the state thought they had a chance in hell of keeping them in, they would never have agreed to the Alford Plea.
Jason seems to be doing great. Living in Seattle, going to community college and working construction. He does speaking engagements at law schools.
Why has this stupid thread been bumped up?
The latest I heard of Echols was that he was promoting his memoir, along with his new best buddy Johnny Depp, who generously has been accompanying his dear friend at several stops on his book tour. I read some reviews of it; one review said his writing resembled that of the "Twilight" novels.
Echols and his older prison groupie wife have bought a house in Salem, Massachusetts. Damien Echols still has a facination with witchcraft and the occult, hence that location. He is still very, very weird.
WHy the hell did Johnny Depp get involved with this guy? makes me think twice about the Hollywood Witches poster.
I think Echols' whole schtick is just a dog and pony show for the book tour.
Even if Echols is innocent, Depp seems to be like John Waters, tagging along w/weirdo convicted criminals. Why?
"Even if Echols is innocent, Depp seems to be like John Waters, tagging along w/weirdo convicted criminals. Why?"
Johnny Depp has always seemed like he has some kind of mental problem; maybe that's why.
John Waters wrote a long piece about his dear friend, the convicted killer Leslie Van Houten. During the filming of "Cry Baby" Waters told Depp about his wonderful friend Leslie, languishing in prison. Depp was moved by Leslie's plight; he wanted to go to the prison and VISIT her. That didn't happen because he wasn't allowed to visit her, due to some impending assault charges against him (I think he got into a fracas with a photographer or something). I wish he had been allowed to visit her; it might have really damaged his career. I can't STAND Johnny Depp.
Echols is a murderer, a sociopath and a conman and it's just a metter of time until he kills again. He will be back in prison sooner or later.
More trivia: Depp and Echols got matching tattoos! They both sport a crow on one of their hands. So...WEIRD.
Remember Jack Henry Abbot (think thatches name) Norman Mahler. & others got him freed, and he killed again. Celebrities r enormous bad judges of character. I think they're guilty