How much nicer is it to fly first class overseas? I imagine it makes a HUGE difference to being in the cattle car. My partner''s parents flew first class on Cathay Pacific and said that there was a bathroom attendant who wiped it down after each use. God, how nice would that be as anyone who has flown long flights knows what a nightmare the bathrooms are toward the middle and end of a flight.\
I am curious though about the first class airlines that have showers. That sounds great and all but, is there someone who cleans out the shower after each use? As nice as it would be to have a shower onboard at the end of a long flight, we all know that flying first class I am not sure I would want to shower after some stranger without having it cleaned. Do they clean the first class bathrooms after each use? Just curious as to how the other half flies.
I think it''s for some nighty night OP.
I recently flew first class to Buenos Aires. While it was nice, I didn''t think that the difference between first and business classes was as significant as the difference between business and economy. The seat was bigger and reclined more, and you weren''t as close to your seatmate, but the service and food wasn''t THAT much better than business. All things considered, I''d prefer to save the miles and just fly business. But never, ever, ever coach for that long. I''m too old to be that cramped for that long
Coach to Asia is a living hell. I can endure 8 hours or so to Europe with liquor or a couple of painkillers.
Virgin Atlantic Upper Class is nice. I''ve flown it to London about 6 times. The seats go completely horizontal and make up into a very comfortable bed. You''re in your own little pod chamber complete with video with huge range of movies and tv series, games, news, music... Electric plug for your own electronic devices. There''s a bar where people hang out for quite a while before bedding down. They give you your own pajamas to wear. They have a masseuse who offers complimentary massages during the flight. The food is as good as airline food gets -- not great, but very good.\
The best part for me, though, is the use of the first class lounges in the airports. The Virgin lounge at Heathrow is amazing. There they do have showers, great food cooked to order, wifi, free drinks with premium liquor and wines.
What about the showers on airplanes? I know that Emirates, Singapore and Lufthansa have showers onboard.
Someone in my building left a copy of the the AMEX magazine for platinum card holders in the lobby last night, and I grabbed it. It was a revelation, basically a "How To Be Rich" primer.%0D\
If you can get the Sept. ''10 issue, it has a complete carrier-by-carrier analysis of FC perqs. Also a breakdown of the grades of Brooks Brothers custom tailoring brands. Yipes.
I will never fly economy internationally every again. Too many hours cramped in a crappy seat. I also try not to fly it for flights longer than 3 hours because my back is bad. I fly business because the seats and service are better, and not as crazily expensive as first class. I have flown 1st class between L.A. and Sydney and L.A. and London, and yes... it is a lot nicer than business. But business is perfectly fine.
Before I "made it" I only flew in steerage a dozen or so times, but now that I fly twice a month I find first class is MUCH better. Anything over 2 hours in a small seat is torture.\
The 747 first class on most airlines is okay, but Air France, Emirates, and Singapore are amazing. Being able to make your seat into a bed...heaven. I''m 6''4" so most seats are still too short, but the full recline makes it far more bearable.\
The free drinks...a little better.\
The personal service...priceless!
Business class is worth it, but first class? Not really. A lie-flat seat sounds better than it is, at least if you''re someone who tosses and turns.
WTF??!! You bitches get pajamas? This is bullshit.
That''s my dream, OP! I''ve flown First Class domestically and it''s always pretty unimpressive. Hell, I''d settle for Business Class overseas.
I''d love to fly First Class in the Singapore Airlines A380... not only your own bed, but your own little cabin.
On United or American internationally in first class you get food that is slightly upgraded from business class and growled at for 10 plus hours by the oldest and most sour flight attendant on the plane. \
To me, on these carriers, I''d rather fly business on a US carrier. The food is almost the same, United and American''s newer business class seats are good, and because there are more of you in the cabin, you have less interaction with the frighting old hags.\
First Class on non-US based airlines is very different - particularly the Asian airlines which offer a very good experience.\
Overall, I don''t think first is worth the difference in fares with business class. But business class is worth it.\
R10, we get toothbrushes, socks, lotion, face masks, "travel socks", etc. AND we get to recline our seats to a flat (or almost flat, in some cases) position so we can sleep comfortably on the flight. Even the food in most cases is decent! It''s not Per Se but it isn''t McDs either. \
I went to South Africa a few months ago, and slept 8 hours in a very comfortable position. \
I can''t imagine flying more than 6 hours in an upright sardine position!
I have occasionally travelled first class, and it makes a huge difference, especially if you are on a carrier where coach sucks.\
Sometimes coach can be very good - KLM for instance. Sometimes it can feel like you are being punished for some horrible offense. Royal Air Maroc comes to mind.\
But more to your point. Business or first is pretty fucking amazing. The service and comfort is categorically better. It may not be worth it but if you ever get the chance to do it, go for it.
People who travel a lot far distance do appreciate the perks that come with paying more for business / first class. I know from two cases where flying account budgets were cut and the company only paid for coach and both decided without hesitation to pay for business class out of their own pockets (until they found a different job where all lavish business expenses were paid in full again).
I have flown First Class to Asia on United and ANA. \
I have to agree with posters above who say that there is not much difference between First Class and Business on United. The food is slightly better--but there is also so much more of it, which isn''t necessarily what I''m looking for. The seats in First by the window are single, so you don''t have a "partner," which is nice. On the other hand, you can''t stop the night owls from yakking away in the middle. \
First Class on ANA was a real wow. The aforementioned pajamas and wonderful food--an endless menu. I never did try everything. Stewardesses who are gorgeous and move and speak with class. And the new cabins have these sort of mini pods which make you feel like you are in your own little plane. \
I''d only fly First Class on a carrier like ANA.
Totally agree about UA and AA flight attendants. Sad but true. The difference between coach and business is HUGE. However the difference between business and first is not as large. Most offer lie-flat beds bit I agree with the 6''4" guy unthread. I''m also that tall so I do need the bed that can accommodate my height. I''ve noticed that a number of airlines are offering substantial discounts on the business class product if you book in advance and can work around their restrictions (high change fees, etc.) which we''ve already do. Those fares are worth it but to pay full fate first is out of the question een if you have the money, IMHO. First Class from SFO to Sydney is something like $20,000. Meanwhile, if you plan ahead, you can get a biz class seat for around $4k. Oddly enough, should you want to use miles to upgrade on that flight, the cheapest H fare, which is upgradeable, is $3500. It use to be $2k. I find that ridiculous. \
[quote]What about the showers on airplanes? I know that Emirates, Singapore and Lufthansa have showers onboard.\
No, but I know one attendant who''ll pee on you if you want.
R4, you forgot the spa and hair salon at Heathrow! First time I flew upper class, I showed up to Heathrow about 3 hours early. I got a facial, chair massage, got my hair cut, had them polish my shoes. All of it complimentary.\
That was actually my very first international flight. I''m spoiled now; I don''t ever want to fly international again unless I can do it first class.
The first class fare from NY to London is 12, 500!
I few First on BA, and they were wonderful. The main difference between First and Business/Club was a bigger bed with a feather duvet, pajamas and espresso drinks available.
Business is fine, and I wish I could just get the seat at a lower rate instead of all the overblown foodservice. The club access and priority security lines in some airports are nice, though. But it's sadly worth the money to be in business or first class in case something goes wrong, especially on a non-US carrier. And don't underestimate the value of being one of the first people off the plane and not dealing with rude, inexperienced flight attendants and masses of passengers fighting for baggage space. Finally, I find that recovery time from trans-oceanic flights is halved when I fly premium class.
Like others here, I've decided that my dignity, my back and my convenience are worth saving up for the higher (yes, ridiculous) fares. I won't fly economy in flights longer than 3 hours. Consolidator fares, advance purchases and airlines like Virgin America where a small price hike gives a bit of an upgrade make things a bit cheaper.
And AA and UA international first is usually full of Frequent Flyer Program whores who have upgraded, and that's why they'll likely never improve their marginally better than business first class. It's just a slight perk for the road warriors, not a profit center.
Good point, r22. I''ve often wondered what the % of revenue vs nonrevenue/mileage seats were. I imagine that is a pretty closely guarded secret...
The only people who travel first class are snobs and people flying on other people''s money!!!\
I can fall into either camp!\
While waiting for your flight, you enjoy the amenities of the waiting room of the carrier. You board first, and you disembark first. There is a steward or stewardess to take your jacket or overcoat, while offering you a drink. There are few truly memorable meals. The service stands out, as does the extra room. Your traveling companions may be delightful, but so can the ones be, if you are traveling with the "great unwashed."
Bonnie Prince Charlie
In NO way is it worth the money. Not to me.
Cattle class to Asia on Singapore is fairly tolerable, much better than Cathay Pacific or JAL, except on the personal video system or whatever it''s called, *every* time you start a new program/movie they show a commercial for SIA''s first class service. Pure torture.
Theyr''re having cookies up there!
I got addicted to business class after being upgraded on an Emirates flight to Bangkok. I go to Australia once a year or so and 24 hours in economy is hell. In business class on the best airlines, it''s a pleasure. But the price does hurt.
On Emirates A380s with showers, F class passengers are allowed a 5 minute shower. Maybe 2, I''m not sure. If you think about it, the airline is flying hundreds of gallons of water and using a lot of fuel to do it. It''s quite a luxury.\
And yes, after passenger uses the shower, a flight attendant wipes it down and puts out new towels and toiletries.
One other great thing about Virgin Atlantic Upper Class: They pick you up and drop you off in a limo. Anywhere within 75 miles. When departing from Heathrow, the driver calls ahead to let the VA concierge know you are on your way, then a few minutes out he calls again. The car pulls up to a private port cochere and the door is opened by a concierge who greets you by name and hands your your boarding pass. At the same time a valet grabs your baggage out of the trunk, sticks the claim tag on, and whisks it away. You are then led to a private security check for VA only. No lines, no waiting. From the moment I stepped foot out of the limo till I was in the fabulous VA lounge (where all the goodies mentioned about are complimentary)it totaled about six minutes. Now, that is luxury.
If it was the cleanest shower in the world I would not shower or bathe on a plane. If that fucker goes down I don''t want be naked and soapy when it does. It would be bad enough to be on the toilet with my pants down.
Way back before homeland theatre when you could arrive just before a flight and still get on I used to arrive late on purpose.\
Virgin air would almost always give my seat away and would then move me to upper class. \
I used to travel about 60% of the time internationally for my work so had plenty of miles to upgrade to first. The best was on a flight back from Hong Kong (on Cathay Pacific I think) and we sat on the tarmac for three hours. The flight attendants kept bringing me magazines, drinks, ice cream, etc. I got up to use the bathroom and had a peek at the people packed in coach - it was a full flight - and they already looked miserable. We still had a 14 hour flight ahead of us.\
Never had a shower on a plane but always took advantage of the first class lounges.\
I no longer travel for work and fly very rarely these days. It''s brutal.
I did an around the world trip in First Class and was able to experience United, Singapore and Lufthansa. Singapore was, by far, the most superior. I flew from Sydney to Dehli, with a change of planes in Singapore. On the SYD-SIN flight, it was a 747 and simply awesome. You can preorder your meal and thus I had the Lobster Thermador. Absolutely the best meal I''ve ever had on a plane. They offer you a choice between Krug or Dom and they continue to pour unlike United. It was a day flight so I didn''t need the bed but they had stationery in the desk and I had just had to write a letter. At the first class lounge, they even mailed it back to the States for me. Just loved it. There were only four of us in First which proves that upgrades don''t tend to happen outside of the American carriers. So nice! I''d love to try the 380 plane. I may just treat myself for the next birthday (a big one). I''m a little drawn between Singapore and Emirates. Time will tell...
I fly to the UK once a year to visit my family. I like Virgin Atlantic Upper Class but the FAs really don''t give you the special personal touch that they do in British Airways Club class or First class.
I''ve flown coach, business, and first class overseas. OP, it depends on the airline. Singapore Airlines has an amazing first class section, especially if you''re on one of the new Airbus 380s. \
But the typical first class on, say, United Airlines, isn''t worth the premium over business class. You get a seat that converts into a flat bed, but it''s hard and narrow and is no more comfortable for sleeping than a typical business class seat.\
The lounge amenities are okay, but typically the business class and first class passengers share the same lounge. First class food is better, but you''re flying at 35,000 or 40,000 feet, and the cabin is pressurized to 8,000 feet. You really can''t taste much, and at that altitude you have to be very careful about drinking alcohol because 1 drink = 2 drinks, and it''s common to get the hangover before you land.\
Whether it''s "worth it" depends on who''s paying the bill.
What is the price difference to fly business or 1rst vs cattle class?
[quote]there was a bathroom attendant who wiped it down after each use. \
To be fair, only a few people in first class actually piss on the floor.\
We just piss all over the people in coach.
There used to be a huge difference between first class and business class. First class had the full flat beds. Business class had recliners or those silly beds which slope down towards the floor (American still has them and they are ridiculous).\
Now that the majority of major carriers have lie flat beds in business class, the difference is mostly in seat width, privacy and the blow jobs from Paulie the Trolley Dolly.
The big thing about going to Asia (Japan or Korea in this case) first class, is the Pods. Expect $5,000 to $7,000 a ticket. \
Luxury to the rich Japanese, means your own private space, not good room service.
That look like a 20% larger version of BA''s current business class design at an angle.
So many liars and idiots in this thread. Really guy you flew KLM "first class?" Hmmm, that's odd because KLM does not have first class. They have World Business class which is a below average business class product as their top cabin. Another guy is flying first on Emirates 747's? That's odd since they don't have any in their fleet. Lufthansa and Singapore do NOT have showers in F, only Emirate does and only on the A380.
[quote]toothbrushes, socks, lotion, face masks, "travel socks", etc
We got those in VA Steerage. But no PJs.
We once flew first class from LA to London Heathrow. In a word? Heaven!
We were treated like a queen!
No US airline has a real First. Barely better than premium economy on the internationals.
Of the internationals, Singapore and Emirates are the best, followed by Lufthansa and Cathay. All have fantastic cabins and lounges. Nor surprise that Air France has the best food and wine; I once got a bottle of vintage Bordeaux because I was alone in the cabin. Watch for Jet Airways (India), who have been quietly upgrading their product to Emirates level. Qantas is overrated.
Some nice surprises in Business: Lufthansa, Austrian and Swiss have great food. BA's lie flat seats still set the standard in Business. Finnair has nice service and is fast to Asia. And the Japanese (JAL and ANA) have great food. Other than LAN, South America is dire. Virgin is overrated and a little cunty.
Yes, it's worth it. You get off the plane and are ready to work. On the US carriers, you need a day in bed to recover from the horror.
Once you haven flown First Class ( or whatever a [particular airline may call it ) you can never go back to steerage. I remember when I use to travel in coach and walking through 1st Class boarding the plane and thinking how they were all idiots for spending so much needless money for a glass of champagne , slightly larger seat and a marginally better meal.
Then I flew first , and realized it's more about the service and the way you are treated from check in, to the lounge, to the on board service, the extra allowances for baggage, even the simply pleasure of being the first of the plane and not standing in the aisles for 15 minutes. Being first off and getting your bags first also means that you get through customs and immigration well before the great throng of coach passengers from your flight, which can save you hours sometimes. Even customs seem to treat First Class better ( and yes, they do know whose first and whose from coach ) I have never been selected for secondary at customs after flying in 1st.
So now as one of those 1st Class "idiots" who sit sipping champagne and trying to avoid eye contact with the cattle as they lumber through on their way to steerage to face 10 hours of living hell, I appreciate the luxury of being treated like a human being , not as livestock freight.
Plus you should all realize that we in First are paying $thousands more to basically subsidize the price of travel in coach.
A wow to R40s link. Wish I could travel like that. Alas as close as I get is 2mg of Ativan, two drinks before the flight, a cigarette before the flight, and my own bag of snacks.
Old people are hilarious. There's nothing wrong with economy, or "steerage" as you call it. I frequently travel coast-to-coast and while I've flown in first and economy, the only true difference is that in one you have a little more space and you get free drinks. Otherwise, I'm fine sitting in an exit row and enjoying a complimentary ginger ale. I've also flown from the east coast to Alaska, Asia, and Europe...and lack of space has never been my primary concern. I just can't stand being in one place for several hours at a time, so even in first class I get bored.
Another nice thing about first class: you are nowhere near R48.
I had a great experience flying business class on Delta to Amsterdam from Minneapolis. That was the highest class on that route (likely an old NW or KLM route they took over). The seats reclined to a flat bed and had egg-like enclosures that provided at least an illusion of privacy. The food was fine. I was actually able to sleep which almost never happens for me on planes.
KLM coach is amazing. When my partner and I flew KLM last year, we thought they made a mistake and put us in business class. There was a menu to chose from, (Thai, Italian, American, French, etc..) warm lavender scented towels, comfortable seats, complimentary snacks and drinks available in the back (ice cream, pizza, madelines, French macaroons, etc), tons of movie and music options and extraordinary service.
I have only ever flown coach, so to me, this was remarkable. Alitalia and Aer Lingus were not near as nice. Not at all.
If you have the money and spending it means nothing to you then go first class. If you do not and spending it is going to cause you more anxiety because it does not meet your expectations then it is not worth it.
Their amenity kits are MUCH nicer.
KLM ought to have impeccable customer service since their airline was responsible for the worst air disaster in history!
Whoever keeps bumping these 2 year-old threads is an interesting case, indeed.
My ass is still small enough that a coach seat has plenty of room and I have no problem going 12 hours without a free alcoholic drink. Let the rich part with their money and keep the coach seats cheap.
All these idiots talking about paying $7K for a ticket that should cost $1K so they don't have to mix with the hoi polloi: all the good looking guys are in the hoi polloi. I've never met a single one in first class. There's a reason why they want those 30 inch wide seats: they need them.
Truer words were never spoken, R59.
I guess the full fares are subsidizing the econ tourist rates
I fly KLM quite a bit and love the Economy Comfort section. It's just a tiny bit more legroom room but it makes all the difference. It only cost me a hundred dollars to upgrade. KLM food is good and the service is good too.
R59, I've flown 1st Class sitting next to pro athletes , movie stars and quite a few models over the years. One peak through curtains confirms that coach is in dire need of larger seats .
I've flown 1st domestically on AA and the posters that talked about the surly flight attendants are spot on. Ruins the experience. Food was awful, too.
2 years ago I flew SAS to CPH Denmark in coach, and it was better than first class domestic. New plane, in seat entertainment, good hot meals & 2 free mini bottles of wine. Excellent service, too.
The U.S. carriers are lucky international airlines can't come in to our domestic market. Truly eye opening differences.
Two ambien and a drink put me way beyond first class. You are all amateurs.
I would gladly fly with r66 any day of the week. I can toss in some benzos and a few crosswords if you like, my friend.
Bengali in Platforms
[quote] One peak through curtains
Thank you r66!
In reading through these, I felt that a couple were exactly my experience then I realized that they were two years old and those responses were me...
haha r70, me too.
I think first class is the only way to go. I don't understand how some people could stand being packed in like cattle. Maybe for a short flight, like from LA to SF, common class would be okay but otherwise first class all the way.
For travel inside the continental U.S., I personally don't care and will happily save the money and fly coach. For international travel, I'll do my best to save up for business class. The difference between flying to India in coach and flying to India in business class was amazing. First class, I don't care about and can't justify the additional cost.
Sweetie, I don't do anything where I have to sit amongst the poor for hours at a time. First Class is swell indeed (Emirates, Swiss Air, British Airways, Lufthansa), but it would be a lovelier experience if they erected an iron gate that separates First and Commoner class.
[quote]I don't understand how some people could stand being packed in like cattle.
Bitch, some of us don't have a choice.
99% of the people in first/business class did NOT pay for their own ticket. Paid for by employer/firm.
As a self-employed woman living in Europe we fly only discount airlines tourist class.
Same as most self-employed people.
I am terrified of flying, so I have done some research and most tests show that the safest seat in a plane, is generally, towards the end where the tail is. Also on German and Austrian Airlines we do get free alcoholic drinks.
I have my first international first class flight EVER in May. I had 100k British Airways miles burning a hole in my pocket thanks to a credit card offer a couple of years ago, and decided to spend them. I am headed from LA to London at their premium economy level, World Traveler Plus, but I am returning in First Class in one of their newly renovated cabins with the pods and all that. Very much looking forward to it. I know Virgin Atlantic is supposed to be better, but I had the BA miles and figured I'd use them. I did research and the LAX-LHR Virgin Atlantic route has 40+ seats in First Class, which I guess they do because it's a premium route. BA's First Class on that route is only 16 seats/pods.
Also -- not a frequent international traveler -- $900+ in taxes, fees and fuel surcharges to book this ticket with miles! Virgin was the same! Holy hell!
If nobody was paying for them, airlines wouldn't offer them.
Sure, if you have unlimited funds or your company or someone else is paying - then go first. But as many previous posters have pointed out - the difference between business and first on most airlines isn't that great - u get lotsa perks in business too! The free pajamas and toiletries, etc - and while everything is just slightly better in first, is it really the equivalent of ten grand's worth better? Cos the difference in cost can be around that - and to most of us mortals - that's a significant amount.
Would much rather spend that kind of dough on the quality of hotels, food, etc at my destination. Even if I won a lottery, I'd be hard pressed seeing the value in flying first - just seems like throwing good money down the drain really.
Only Emirates has showers. The lavs on most Middle East and Asian carriers are checked for use every 15 minutes.
What's always struck me is what an utter disaster first class always is at the end of the flight. As you walk through it exiting the plane it's nothing but a pigsty of wadded up blankets, empty wrappers, and discarded newspapers.
Seriously people, it would kill you to fold the fucking blanket?
No more massages on Virgin Upper Class (well at least between US and UK). The official story is that customers complained about the fact that not everyone could get a massage. Unofficial story from the flight attendants: too many drunk businessmen asking for "happy endings".
Yes, two sleeping pills and a drink and I fly in a class by myself. A very cheap upgrade.
I've flown international first and international business, each several times.
The major differences are lie-flat beds in first (although some business classes are installing them, or so I've heard), wider seats, and more legroom.
In a 747, for example, a first-class cabin will be five across, and business class will be seven across. Coach will be 10 across. First class will have enough leg room to put your feet all the way out in front at a 90-degree angle and still not touch the seat in front of you. Business class varies, but it's not THAT spacious.
Meals in business and first are similar, but first's are fancier. But it doesn't really matter, because at that altitude it's very hard to taste. In first, they'll have the very highest-shelf alcohol, but that's no big deal either, because unless you're an alcoholic you won't drink a whole lot up there.
The reason: Altitude makes you metabolize it faster, and you get a hangover within a couple hours. Plus the top-top shelf stuff is wasted on altitude-blurred taste buds.
Beyond the specifics, first class is like sitting in your living room. In business, you're on a comfortable train, but you're still conscious of being in a transpotation conveyance with a bunch of other people. There's a higher staff-to-passenger ratio in first, but service in business is quite adequate.
Bottom line: Even on someone else's dime, I think first is a waste of money. If I win Megabucks, I'd probably still fly business internationally, except maybe for first on a Singapore Airlines A380, which has private cabins in first. That would be interesting, but it's so expensive that it's not even really first class, but a super-first.
The best business class I've been in was Korean Air from Seoul to Seattle a few years ago. The food was great, the service was great, and the seats were very comfortable. Lie-flat first class seats have never worked for me. Too narrow and too hard. I couldn't sleep.
[quote]So many liars and idiots in this thread. Really guy you flew KLM "first class?" Hmmm, that's odd because KLM does not have first class. They have World Business class which is a below average business class product as their top cabin. Another guy is flying first on Emirates 747's? That's odd since they don't have any in their fleet. Lufthansa and Singapore do NOT have showers in F, only Emirate does and only on the A380.
R59 is so right. As a frequent flier I've learned that if you sit in first class, you'll get to watch all the hottest guys walk right past you to their seat in the back of the plane.
NEVER fly an American airline on an international route.
Lufthansa only has first class and cattle, right? My first trip to Germany was in cattle class and it was a nightmare.
Has anyone flown on the new Dreamliner? I am considering going to Germany for business again in a few months and would like to in biz class on a new Dreamliner.
I have flown Emirates A380 from Dubai to Sydney first class and yes I got nude at 30,000 feet and had a shower. it is a bit of a strange sensation, but really enjoyable after a 13 hour flight - its about 15hours to Sydney and I had my shower just before top of descent. Length of time in the shower depends on how many others want a shower. There were only 4 others traveling first class, so i could have stayed under the water longer. They have special spa crew that only look after the first class showers and bathrooms. the whole first class experience on Emirates is fantastic, but its the bar in Business class that is really great fun.
R90, so jealous! That's my dream flight!!!
The photo at r40 is Air Canada business class, I believe.
I've flown international business and/or first on BA, ANA (my favorite), Virgin (plastic but nice), Malaysian Air, AA, Singapore, Alitalia (tacky, but good food) and TAM.
Business and First don't seem that different to me these days, as opposed to ten years ago even when there was more of a gap. But the difference between Business and Coach when flying internationally is MAMMOTH.