Frankly, my dear, you didn't give a damn who you slept with. %0D
Two-time Oscar winner Viven Leigh, the iconic Scarlett O'Hara in "Gone With The Wind," was a hot mess off-screen -- a slutty bisexual who battled mental illness for most of her adult life, an explosive new biography claims. "Damn You, Scarlett O'Hara" outs at least three of Leigh's lesbian lovers, and describes her insatiable appetite for "rough trade" -- bad boys she'd pick up at Scotty's, a notorious LA brothel that masqueraded as a gas station with one pump and 22 attendants, The Sunday Times of London reports. %0D
"In the 1940s, the world's most recognizable star would drive down to Scotty's with her friend George Cukor, the initial director of 'Gone With The Wind,' and they would both pick out young men for the night," a publishing source told the newspaper. "They would pay the men with gifts such as cigarette cases, jewels, or even stocks and bonds. She depended on the professional discretion of men not to boast they had just serviced Scarlett O'Hara." %0D
In the glitzy, glamorous Hollywood of the 1930s, Leigh was seen as the romantic soul mate of another rising star, Laurence Olivier, who left his lesbian wife for her. But unpublished memoirs and witness accounts suggest that within months of becoming lovers in 1937, they were both "playing away from home," claim co-authors Darwin Porter, who knew the actress in the '60s, and Roy Moseley, who was Olivier's personal assistant. %0D
In addition to an affair with Brit actress Isabel Jeans and at least 2 other women, the book claims Leigh slept with a string of handsome co-stars like Marlon Brando and Rex Harrison. %0D
[quote]She depended on the professional discretion of men not to boast they had just serviced Scarlett O''Hara.\
No one could be that loony. What "professional discretion"?
I guess she always depended on the kindness of strangers.
She had severe manic depression. She was crazy.
Darwin Porter is not exactly a reliable source.
Brando? So she and Larry were drawing from the same well, as it were.
It is no surprise she slept with Brando. He slept with just about anyone that was willing. I''d rather see a list of Brando''s sexual partners.
This isn''t exactly news. It''s been known for decades that during her manic phases, she''d screw anything with a pulse, if she had any limits at all.%0D\
Maybe it''s news if she fucked around when she wasn''t manic, but more power to her if she did. It''s not like her husband deserved fidelity.
you can''t libel the dead so take this with a huge grain of salt.
I want to hear more about Scotty''s!! That place sounds amazing!
This sounds mostly made up, and then some.
"one pump and 22 attendants" had me laughing out loud!
Darwin Porter''s books are pure fiction, based on every rumor and fantasy ever heard about celebrities. His book on Merv Griffin MAKES UP conversations he couldn''t possibly have heard, and his book on Paul Newman was so full of untruths it was pulled from bookstores.\
Now he''s off trashing another star - with what looks like help from a London correspondent.\
It''s all bullshit.
Vivien was working extremely long hours during the [italic]GWTW[/italic] shoot; I should have thought that would leave her little time for such hanky-panky.%0D\
Also from everything I have read Vivien Leigh was relatively functional in 1938-39 albeit obsessed with Olivier. Her bipolar symptoms didn''t start seriously affecting her behavior and her marriage until a few years later. Those incidents of a manic incoherent Leigh wandering around naked and sleeping with random strangers date from the late 1940s and 1950s by which time her marriage with Olivier was a painful mess for both parties.
Caveat emptor: this is another Darwin Porter.
Who were the other women she slept with?
Remember that scene when I was pulling on the ties of her petticoat? That was no acting. Right before that scene, that white girl tried to get in on with me and I was havin'' none of it.
Hattie McDaniel, of the Scottish McDaniels
R18, Hattie would have nothing of it because she was hanging out with T. Bankhead...and they were quite the item. I don''t think people realize how openly bi-sexual many of the stars were during the 20''s and 30''s. I read a book called Sappho goes Hollywood which talks about this-especially about Garbo and Marlene and the fact that they loved women but slept with plenty of men also.\
I was quite shocked at what went on but now even more convinced that the same goes on today and is still covered up-yes, John T and Tom C and many many actresses are having their affairs with the same sex and no one speaks of it and they all have their codes of silences etc etc. Quite interesting to say the least.
Read Porter''s book on Brando. All the people he allegedly fucked are dead-- so there is no way to confirm that the book (over 500 pages) was true. It was trashy.... really trashy.%0D\
I expect the same with the book on Leigh.
There are few things more disgusting than a ghoul who picks over the bones of a dead celebrity for profit.\
If you ever spent time with any celebrity biographer you''d never believe another thing he or she said.
well said, r3.
Luckily, Marilyn out-crazied Larry and Viv when she blew into their turf... so at least they had a few months of inner tranquility....
Poor Vivien Leigh. She''s the latest casualty of a trashy biographer who will say anything about her. You can say anything about somebody after they''re dead.%0D\
Darwin Porter is liar, totally full of shit. And I doubt that Roy Moseley who claims to have been Olivier''s "personal assistant" is any more credible. %0D\
Leigh''s manic-depression and promiscuity are well-documented. But in all the numerous biographies of her and Laurence Olivier, NONE of them talk about her "insatiable appetite for "rough trade" or her "lesbian lovers." I think the reason for that is that there was no appetite for rough trade or lesbian lovers. %0D\
If she and Brando had had an affair it would have come out long before now.%0D\
It''s sad that Vivien Leigh is now being smeared by losers like Porter and Moseley. She was a great actress who suffered from mental illness and died prematurely. She doesn''t deserve to have her memory tarnished by those creeps.
"Hattie would have nothing of it because she was hanging out with T. Bankhead...and they were quite the item.\
Hattie and Tallulah were an item? Do tell!
Tallulah''s daddy warned her about men and alcohol, but he never said a damn thing about women and cocaine!
r26, don''t forget your source... Tallulah messed with Billie Holiday too... OK back on topic. I thought Vivien went buck wild in the 60''s? She was still with Olivier in 1958 when he made that picture with Marilyn.
As I said-read the book, Sappho goes to Hollywood-The author talks about Hattie and Tallulah along with many other actors of that time. Quite the story. Leigh having affairs with women would not have been a big deal. I always thought Gone with the Wind was all about the relationships with the women and it seems that the subtext I was "feeling" might have been correct. ( How can you not feel that Scarlett was attracted to Melanie at some level??).
Oh and the woman from the brothel-I don''t have time to look up her name-she was gay in real life also.
Why is it a smear?
It''s not a smear unless you believe being bisexual and promiscuous is bad.%0D\
It may be a lie, but it''s not a smear.
Sounds made up. "Journalists" always go for the bisexual or full on lesbian stuff once their subject dead. When Newman died there were people saying the guy was really gay.LOL.
There were people here saying he was bi before he died, r33.
The stories of Vivien''s sexual antics are absolutely true. %0D\
She used to have sex with strangers in public parks. Watch this documentary starting at the 2:50 mark.%0D\
Didn''t David Niven write a thinly veiled account of one of Vivien''s psychotic episodes in "Bring On The Empty Horses"? Such a tragic life for a talented beauty.
The minute I saw Darwin Porter''s name connected with this I knew it was made-up bullshit.
In my opinion it''s doubtful that Vivien Leigh was having sex with strangers in public parks in the 1930s when she was still young and fairly [italic]compos mentis[/italic].%0D\
Vivien''s mental health deteriorated a great deal in the 1950s and 60s. There was no treatment at the time for Bipolar Affective Disorder except for sedation and electro-convulsive therapy. David Niven did indeed write about one of Leigh''s worst episodes in his memoirs, and it is a chilling story. Niven was a friend to the Oliviers and disguised her identity but everyone knew to whom he referred.%0D\
As for lesbian encounters in the most recent biography of Olivier I believe that the author cites a possible relationship Vivien had with a woman when Vivien was visiting the US but I don''t recall details.
r14, thanks for the link. Scotty''s sounds delicious.\
But at the link there is a quip about Hepburn "Hepburn herself had a notorious relationship with American Express heiress Laura Harding, though Mann insists that though it was sexual, it was not "lesbian". "\
How can you(a woman) have sex with a woman and not be a lesbian?
"David Niven did indeed write about one of Leigh''s worst episodes in his memoirs, and it is a chilling story."\
Come on R38 don''t leave us hanging!
R40, the incident David Niven recounts in his memoirs dates from Vivien's breakdown during the production of [italic]Elephant Walk[/italic] in 1953. Vivien had been having an affair with her co-star Peter Finch. After behaving erratically on location in Ceylon, Vivien flew back to Hollywood. It was there that she completely lost it and Niven attempted to intervene.%0D
Unfortunately I do not have a copy of Niven's memoirs to hand, but here is the account that appears in Terry Coleman's Olivier biography:%0D
After a party given by Vivien ... Mae, the help at Vivien's house, telephoned Niven, urgently asking him to come over quickly, which he did. Mae, saying Vivien was possessed, refused to stay in the house and left there and then. Niven took a key from her and let himself into the dark house. Suddenly all the lights came on, and there was Vivien at the top of the stairs. Her hair was hanging down in straggly clumps, mascara and makeup formed a streaked mask down to her chin, one false eyelash was missing, her eyes were staring and wild, she was naked, and she looked "quite, quite mad." He tried to calm her down, but she said she hated him and sat on the landing alternately sobbing and snarling at him through the banisters. He coaxed her downstairs to watch television. At that time of night there were no programs, but she sat watching an empty screen, at times laughing and pointing at the set, at times shrinking back in horror. He put his arms around her naked body and found her icy cold.%0D
[Olivier's friend Stewart Granger then joins Niven at the house, and they both attempt to get Vivien to calm down and accept medical help. They throw out an evidently insane ex-boyfriend of Vivien's who had taken up residence at the house who was clad only in a towel. A doctor is called, sedatives are prescribed, and one of the men (Granger I think) goes to an all-night pharmacy to collect them. When he returns Granger tries to sneak these drugs into Vivien's food and coffee, but a suspicious Vivien demands that Niven taste the food first, which unfortunately knocks him out. Coleman resumes his narrative of the incident:]%0D
Niven woke and telephoned the head of the studio, who promised to send a doctor and to urge Olivier to come out to Hollywood. They agreed that it would take him at least three days to get there. Niven did eventually get Vivien to take some pills, stirring one into a glass of wine and pounding another into some cottage cheese, but this only slowed her down for a while. She then tried to entice him into bed. He had become exhausted, but she never showed any tiredness and harried him endlessly to play hide-and-seek, flatter her, comfort her, fight with her, or go to bed with her. "I found," Niven said, "that I had come to hate her."
Only people who "get" astrology understands the implication of Vivian Leigh being a Scorpio.
Vivien was a great actress, both on screen and on stage. I saw her several timesin drama s and a musical. She was a talented and beautiful woman who deserved all the accolades and awards.
[quote]Oh and the woman from the brothel- I don''t have time to look up her name- she was gay in real life also.%0D\
Ona Munson played Belle Watling in [italic]GWTW[/italic]. Despite her three marriages with men Munson seems fairly gay in Diana McLellan''s book, apparently having affairs with Marlene Dietrich and Mercedes de Acosta, amongst others. IMDb lists the three husbands but no lesbian liaisons, alas.
[quote]If you ever spent time with any celebrity biographer you''d never believe another thing he or she said.\
I know a biographer who wrote about Jerry Lewis who didn''t seem a liar at the time, just someone who had no taste and was WAY too enamored of Lewis. He wrote a second bio (on a star I won''t name because it would give away who this author is). The moment this huge star died, the biographer added back in all this salacious stuff ... then the publisher wouldn''t touch it. What was published was very watered down and it got terrible reviews. He''s back to doing small press niche books.
What are you bitches going on about?! Darwin Porters books are as truthful as Boze Hadleighs!
"It''s not a smear unless you believe being bisexual and promiscuous is bad.%0D\
It may be a lie, but it''s not a smear."%0D\
Lies of any sort about a person who is dead is a smear job.%0D\
In this case, the sleazebag biographers want to portray Vivien Leigh as an insatiable slut who did it with anything. She wasn''t a slut; her promiscuity was triggered by her severe mental illness. She couldn''t help herself. %0D\
This same thing was done to Jean Harlow after her death. Irving Shulman wrote that Harlow would pick up strangers to have sex with. She did no such thing. %0D\
It seems to be the standard thing to say about celebrities who are no longer around to defend themselves; that they were wildly promiscuous and gay or bi. %0D
R35''s video proves that Leigh was a sexual deviant. Why would her best friends lie about it? It was common knowledge.%0D\
They saw her come home covered in mud from getting fucked in a public park by a stranger.
Norma Shearer would have been something as Scarlett, non?
"R35''s video proves that Leigh was a sexual deviant. Why would her best friends lie about it? It was common knowledge."%0D\
How is she a sexual deviant? Because she supposedly fucked strangers and was gay or bi? If that''s true that a major portion of the people who post on Datalounge are sexual deviants.%0D\
She was bi-polar in a time where relatively nothing could be done about it. In her manias she would act like a crazy woman. She was deeply mentally ill; THAT was her problem. %0D\
Norma Shearer would have been hilarious as Scarlett. A cross-eyes Scarlett O''Hara? It would have been funny as hell.
Vivien Leigh was a whore.
"a major portion of the people who post on Datalounge are sexual deviants"%0D\
The Republican Party tells me this about me every day. What''s your point?%0D\
Gotta say, am liking the idea of a male brothel that fronts as a gas station. Very entrepeneureal.
Regarding Talullah, its all bullshit. I have Talullah''s autobiography, she wrote it without a ghost writer, its titled, "Talullah" what else? She never once discussed a lesbian affair, not even an attraction, with another woman. She did however confirm reports that she was a wanton woman, and I mean wantin wanton.%0D\
Talu was a tough broad but that doesn''t make her a lesbian. Not that that would be a bad thing its just that people draw this incorrect conclusion based on her life style. That isn''t good.
Can somebody tell me where Scotty''s was located? \
I''m at work and don''t want to click on the link. TIA
Love Old Hollywood
R42, it''s got to be more than her Sun sign creating that kind of havoc.
So ROMAN SPRING OF MRS. STONE was autobiographical?%0D\
R54, Scotty''s used to be where Mel''s Diner on Sunset is today.
[quote]In the 1940s, the world's most recognizable star would drive down to Scotty's with her friend George Cukor, the initial director of 'Gone With The Wind,' and they would both pick out young men for the night," a publishing source told the newspaper.%0D
Everyone has rightly condemned this as so much BS, but I just wanted to throw some factual information into the mix. This nonsense is so easily debunked, it's insulting it gets published.%0D
During the filming of [italic]GWTW[/italic] Vivien Leigh worked 15-hour days for nearly five and a half months. During the production she had only five days off. Vivien complained a great deal about missing Olivier and pressured him to visit her; it is unlikely that she would have either the time or the inclination to be shagging a bunch of guys whom she met at a gas station. There is zero evidence of this in any biographical material I have read relating to Laurence Olivier, Vivien Leigh, or any of their friends and contemporaries.%0D
After Vivien finished shooting [italic]That Hamilton Woman[/italic] in Hollywood in 1941, she and Olivier returned to England and remained there throughout the Second World War. So Vivien wasn't even in Hollywood during the 1940s to partake of the delights of Scotty's garage/brothel.%0D
Vivien's physical and mental health began to decline significantly in the 1940s. She was very ill with tuberculosis in 1945-46; her manic depressive illness really began to take hold of her about the same time. She did indeed engage in reckless sexual behavior during manic episodes, but this was later and mostly in the UK where the extent of Vivien's decline was not publicized by the press and not generally known outside of showbusiness circles.%0D
Friends of the Oliviers would not have tried to enable Vivien by encouraging her manic sexual escapades. If you've ever seen anyone in the midst of a manic episode, it's not amusing: it's frightening.%0D
The general impression one gets from reading various biographical accounts of the Oliviers' personal lives during this period is total exhaustion and frustration on Olivier's part as he and Vivien fought against a terrible illness that was little understood and that had few viable treatment options. (Remember that this is before the introduction of lithium compounds, which were the first effective mood stabilizers.) Eventually the constant strain of looking after Vivien and living with Vivien was too much for Olivier, and he sought to end the marriage after engaging in multiple affairs himself, as is widely known.%0D
Vivien's mania-fueled anonymous sexual encounters were a symptom of a tragic illness, not a moral failing or a character flaw. To characterize the woman as a slut because of this illness is cruel and inaccurate.
"Only people who "get" astrology understands the implication of Vivian Leigh being a Scorpio."\
Did you arrive at this banal prognostication by inspecting the entrails of an unblemished goat?
Now you know why I didn''t give a damn.
R53, regarding Tallulah, no one was a bigger lesbian than she was. Yes, she got married a few times, at least one or two were front marriages. Of course, she was not going to speak about that.\
Many of these actresses did not think twice of hiding in plain sight.
My reaction to stuff like this is, so what?%0D\
I knew she was bi-polar, and that fact is the defining one of her life. It has nothing to do with character of course, or talent for that matter. I believe she was one of the most beautiful and effective screen actresses ever.%0D\
Scotty''s was, I thought, according to Arthur Laurents- male hustlers of hire, for men. George Cukor was also very famous for keeping his Hollywood A listers separate from his more of less on the side gay life. %0D\
In any case- none of it matters other than if true or not, she was a tormented woman due to her mental illness, and also a great screen actress- it is the latter that is of most interest to me. Promiscuity goes hand in hand with all manner of mental illness and I assume therefore she was- who cares? Some of my dearest friends are sluts, and some of my dearest friends are prudes. Neither quality is good or bad- just is.
R1, it is.
"Talu was a tough broad but that doesn''t make her a lesbian."%0D\
She had sex with other women; I''d say that makes her at least bi.%0D\
Speaking of Tallulah...she was mentioned in Barry Paris''s biography of Louise Brooks. Seems she and Brooks hooked up together for a while. One night they went out and picked up a black guy and took him home for a threesome. Later, they decided it was wrong to do that. Oh the threesome was ok; they just decided that it was wrong for whites to have sex with blacks! Both Bankhead and Brooks were looney as bed bugs.
[quote]Only people who "get" astrology understands the implication of Vivian Leigh being a Scorpio.\
The most bullshit post I''ve read on DL
[quote]Some of my dearest friends are sluts, and some of my dearest friends are prudes. Neither quality is good or bad- just is.%0D\
That''s nice, but even today women and girls face opprobrium for being ''slutty'' whereas promiscuous men are either given a pass or celebrated for it. In the last century women who did not conform to social norms in this regard endured slut-shaming and worse.%0D\
I don''t care if Vivien Leigh was promiscuous. Ordinary promiscuity or sluttiness isn''t really at issue here because of her psychiatric history. If Vivien found joy or at least relief from her torment in sexual encounters that would be one thing; but compulsively seeking sex with random strangers whilst non compos mentis doesn''t sound especially fun or life-affirming to me, and I suspect it didn''t help her much either.
Vivien and 'Larry' (Laurence Olivier) kiss both Marilyn!
Careen, i'm glad you enjoy them. They are certainly beautiful photos. :)
”She always made you feel that you were the most important person in her life. Apart from her great physical beauty,she was the kindest of friends with the most beautiful manners. You don’t get that in the theatre today. You didn’t get it then.”- Sally Ann Howes
Fwiw, Brando, in his memoirs, writes he got along well with Leigh during the filming of "ASND."
He claims, that although she came on to him, he never had sex with her because he liked Olivier too much.
I think the casting of Leigh as Scarlett O'Hara was almost perfect. I have one small quibble: Leigh was too pretty: "Scarlett O'Hara was not beautiful, but men seldom realized it when caught by her charms as the Tarleton twins were."
My fave performance of hers, and I like them all, was in "Waterloo Brifge."
I love her in everything she did, from the busker movie with Laughton to the tragic Mrs. Stone and everything in between.
To me, she could do no wrong.
Della, yes, she gave a stellar performance in 'Gone With The Wind'. Certainly her Scarlett is one of my favourite female performances, as well.
Now as it comes to 'Waterloo Bridge', as you probably already know it was personal favourite by both Vivien Leigh and Robert Taylor. Vivien delivers a wonderful performance there too. She is extraordinary, anyway.
Well, R81, the problem with Vivien Leigh movies is that not few of them lack English subtitles and that's a shame. That doesn't happen with Bette Davis movies or with the films of other great actresses of the old Hollywood and that's a shame, because Vivien Leigh was undoubtedly awesome and she has a very interesting filmography.
. Storm in a Teacup
. Fire Over England
. A Yank at Oxford
. Sidewalks of London
. 21 Days Together
. The Deep Blue Sea
. Dark Journey
All these Vivien Leigh movies lack subtitles and that's a disgrace. People should be more considerate and less cheap with the work of people who are really worthy to be remembered.
I discovered that at least they made English subtitles for Fire Over England 
It's in Amazon.Uk and in a rather good price £12.99
R84, no i'm not, but a lot of other people could be. In addition, there are people whose mother tongue is not English (I'm in that category) so subtitles would help a lot.
R58: Can't you read well enough to understand the meaning of the sentence you quoted? No one is contending that Vivien Leigh picked up sexual partners at Scotty's DURING the filming of GONE WITH THE WIND. The item in question says that she and George Cukor did so in the 1940s. Read it again.\t
[quote]My reaction to stuff like this is, so what?
That's so very noble of you, Charlie.
My reaction to your claim of "so what" is to wonder why you were reading this thread.
My reaction to your claim of "so what" is to wonder why you felt a need to say "so what" and then go on and on and on about various aspects of a "so what" topic.
My reaction to your claim of "so what" is to wonder why your attempts to create an image of being above it all always end in failure but you are unable to stay away from these threads.
Vivien Leigh with her daughter i think. Correct me if i'm wrong.
I'm going to prescribe a valium for Miss R88.
But your Enlish is perfect, R86. As was Miss Leigh's!
But since I'm in the business I would not mind titling those films.
R92 that would be awesome if you could put subtitles to those movies. Anyway, thanks for your compliment about my English, hehehe
I'm going to see on DVD, 'Lifeboat' now. I need some certain pleasure and i'm convinced that Hitchcock can offer that to me.
Au revoir ~ ~ ~ ~
In a word, "Wow!"
I read Scotty's book a couple of months ago. He is not really good at exact time and place. The guy is in his late 80s. But most of his claims have been verified. The location of the gas station was at 5777 Hollywood Blvd, Los Angeles, CA.
Her behavior suggests a lot more than bipolar disorder.
Poor Vivien. One of the most beautiful actresses ever and very talented.
"What a pity she and Olivier got a divorce. I guess, it was urgent, otherwise they wouldn't divorce, right...?"
They divorced because she was bipolar and he was screwing around, and possibly gay. After the divorce they both found people who could not just tolerate their flaws, but stay with them for a lifetime. James Merivale stayed with Leigh for the rest of her life, and coped much better with her illness than Olivier ever did, and Joan Plowright is proud to be the Widow Olivier.