Because rich douchebags who got where they are b/c of the accumulated wealth of their forebears hate the idea that they may one day have to compete with people who grew up poor but thro hard work and their own genius, strove for something better.
Because unions stand in the way of unchecked exploitation of the lower classes, and Republicans love to assume they''ll one day be those rich slave drivers (and people with money turn Republican out of greed as well, see stats at the link below).
when only the bottom line matters, than all others need to be swept out of the way
Nowadays, it is mostly because they cannot stand the competition.\
Unions originally served a real purpose. They kept companies from exploiting workers, increased workplace safety, and were an organized voice in government for the working man and woman. \
Now, the government regulates workplace safety and wages. Unions may see to it that those laws are enforced (sometimes), but for the most part unions today just exploit workers in a different way than the Republicans do. Unions today are basically subcontractors. The workers work for the union who subcontracts the work to the business. \
The other reason that Republicans hate unions is that they have too much say in business decisions in which the unions have no business having a say. Today, it really is a case of the tail wagging the dog in some instances.
Nobody likes unions, but they love union jobs.
"Unions today are basically subcontractors. The workers work for the union who subcontracts the work to the business."%0D\
Uhm, no. Not even close. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
Ask Steven Slater if he''d prefer to have a union at his side right now or not.\
Unions - for the most part, nothing is perfect - protect workers. And nothing annoys Republicans more than minor inconveniences for rich people.\
They have an almost religious attachment to the idea that the rich deserve better treatment.
The lower middle class and the poor love unions and the guarantee of higher salaries but they are also the very ones who scream the loudest when union-made products cost twice as much because of the cost associated with unions. So they go to Walmart and buy Made in China...India...Pakistan and spend their time blaming the Repubs for hating unions and not caring about the poor.
R9, Perfect example. Steven Slater should be fired. Period. No matter what the provocation, what he did was wrong. Besides, He walked off the job. No employer should have to take back an employee who walks out, no matter how fabulous the exit, unless the employee need to leave for his or her own safty Unions keep substandard people employed. Indeed, they fight to keep poor employees employed. (And yeh, I appreciate the theatrics of his exit as much as the next person, but too keep him on as an employee after that stunt? No way.) \
Now, perhaps what a union should do in this situation is to find out why the passenger has not been charged. She did endanger both the crew and the passengers with her behavior. That is a valid issue of employee safety to address.
"The other reason that Republicans hate unions is that they have too much say in business decisions in which the unions have no business having a say. "\
God forbid the poor saps doing the work actually have any say it how it gets done. Much less get an adequate wage.
Yeh, R10. I have friends with a farm in Danville, VA (Dan River fabrics). It was really frustrating to hear everyone whine and bitch about the mills closing, and yet the only store with any business was Walmart. The mill workers just could not understand why they could not have it both ways. Working at the mill was a right. Shopping at Wallmart was a right. They felt entitled to both and did not get that one affected the other.
R12, Unless the poor saps pay the rent, utilities, insurance, taxes, etc- no they should not have a say on how it gets done. They should show up, do their job- well, and collect an above adequate wage. (I would say with benefits, but quite frankly, I am in favor of socialized medicine.) Workers should not have a say in how a business is run unless it is a wage or safety issue. They have no business dictating how an item is made or the quality of materials or workmanship that is acceptable in making that item. Unfortunately, unions do dictate those things, particularly acceptable quality of workmanship, which is why much of what has been made in America is crap.\
However, how the work gets done has nothing to do with wages unless getting it done requires overtime.
[quote]Workers should not have a say in how a business is run unless it is a wage or safety issue. They have no business dictating how an item is made or the quality of materials or workmanship that is acceptable in making that item. Unfortunately, unions do dictate those things, particularly acceptable quality of workmanship, which is why much of what has been made in America is crap.\
And yet that''s how workers councils are involved in Germany and I don''t think their products are universally thought of as crap.
And if your country legislates that you are paid part of your salary in shares then you have an interest in the success of the company and the quality of the product.
[quote]Unions keep substandard people employed. Indeed, they fight to keep poor employees employed.%0D\
Yes, thank goodness the banking industry doesn''t have unionized employees. Can you imagine the screw ups if all those people were unionized? We might have had some colossal screw up which would have put the entire world''s economy in the shitter!
"Workers should not have a say in how a business is run unless it is a wage or safety issue. They have no business dictating how an item is made or the quality of materials or workmanship that is acceptable in making that item."\
So if the workers notice a design defect, then they should shut the hell up!!!\
You really don''t seem to be very bright, R14.
Why do Republicans hate poor people so much?
Remember Ronnie Raygun''s first act in the WH?%0D\
Changing his diaper. %0D\
But the second action was to fire the Air Traffic Controller''s. They were unionized.
I''m a Democrat, but I''m no fan of unions in today''s economy. As R6 points out, unions had an important role in the past. However, I''ve never understood why some on the left have continued to exalt organized labor, given that many locals have been bastions of Archie Bunker-style sexism, racism, and white-guy favoritism. Needless to say, there''s also the tendency of some unions to blindly support the screw-ups in their ranks who deserve to be fired. Some unions have been too militant to recognize that their kneejerk antagonism to management ultimately backfired. The communications workers don''t seem to get that the landline world in which they make their living is fading away. GM/Ford/Chrysler management and the UAW are both culpable for the problems of the U.S. auto industry, and only learned to deal with each other constructively when it was almost too late. Even the ultimate powerless downtrodden victims of brutal masters -- Actors Equity -- sometimes can''t see the forest for the trees.
we would have no middle class in twentieth century america without unions. now that unions have been successfully vilified and rendered powerless by 30 year of conservative leadership, again, we will have no middle class in the 21st century.
R15, I could not agree with you more. Part of my dissatisfaction with American Unions is that I work so closely with German Unions. Unfortunately, the entire German work work ethic is vastly different. Also, the German unions are are from the same family tree as the old Guild system. American unions are basically from the same family tree as the Mafia.
Ronnie Reagan was himself a union leader, so it''s important to understand that the republican hate of unions is not in some sense real. After all, fascism depended on organized labor in Italy and Germany and corporate America would like nothing better than sucha system here.
My friends who founded, own and run a charter school in one of the worst ghettos in big city America, hate the local teachers unions because they aren''t just preventing them from expanding but trying to run them out of business by exerting pressure through local politicians and city officials whose campaigns they have contributed to. I think the teachers unions they deal with are embarrassed that their school spends less per pupil, has a graduation and college matriculation rate double digits higher than the area public schools.
R18, that is a ridiculous comment. Of course they should say something if they see a design defect, particularly if it is a safety issue. However, the unions should not have the right to dictate the design. Unfortunately, the reality is that unions would either require concessions that would result in a defective design, prevent the change of the defective design because it would mean altering the existing work patterns, or make it so damn expensive to change the design that to do so is not cost effective.
Because they love big business, corporations, and rich people, OP. They hate poor people and organized labor, and paying working people decent wages and benefits.
R22, that is not entirely true. A great deal of the middle class was created by Paternalistic, non-union businesses. Businesses that were non-union, but their owners felt that they has a moral obligation to take care of their workers. Unfortunately, both the unions and the Capitalists fought very hard after WWII to dis-mantel the paternalistic business model.
R24, It was Ronald Regan''s stint as head of the SAG that turned him from Democrat to Republican.
[quote]Unfortunately, the reality is that unions would either require concessions that would result in a defective design, prevent the change of the defective design because it would mean altering the existing work patterns, or make it so damn expensive to change the design that to do so is not cost effective.%0D\
Name one example where this has happened R26.
R26 is just making stuff up as he goes along.
The same reason they hate public education = cheap labor.\
They know they can manipulate poor undereducated people by scaring them into voting against their own best interest.\
Greed is good, greed is God.
"Greed is good, greed is God."%0D\
This should be repeated, ad nauseum, by the Democratic Party and directed at every Republican running for office.%0D\
But of course, they won''t because Democrats have no fucking balls and are basically spineless. Democrats really don''t like hurting anyones feelings, do they Barack?%0D\
R30, I can, but why bother since you will then say that you cannot verify them. No, I cannot give you an example of a building that fell down because of the unions. Something that would have made the papers and you could look up. I do know of examples where a company had to do an entire run of a defective product because the unions demanded triple time to correct the error in set up, an error the union employees made in setup by-the-way.
I suppose one stupid example, but an example none the less: You know in plays and TV how there is rarely a wrapped present? Just the box top is wrapped. The reason is that the unions made is ridiculously expensive to have a proper wrapped box. Back in 1991, the play La Bete used a properly wrapped box. Each box cost about $75.00 then, $116.00 in today money, paying someone $116.00 to wrap a box is absurd. Perhaps, theater people can come up with other examples. The theater seems to be full of crazy union rules that dictate everything from the number of musician (even in a non-musical play), to the design and number of costumes, to how the set is configured.
Unions aren''t universally perfect, so we should just bust them all up and let things take their course.
Yes, this was sarcasm.
What I find ironic is that many Republicans and Tea Baggers claim to be Christian and yet their beliefs are more in line with Satanism. Pick up the Satanist Bible and it reads like a right wing playbook; pro greed, pro war, pro hate. Christ was all about compassion but I don''t see that anywhere in how these people operate.
They are Darwinists in a sense.
[quote] Ronnie Reagan was himself a union leader\
That was back in the days when he was still a democrat.
[quote]Now, the government regulates workplace safety and wages.\
Minimally on safety, and virtually nothing on wages. The gov''t-mandated minimum wage is below what the market sets.
Unions are the purest form of working class power. Republicans support corporations, not workers. Fortunately for the Republicans, many workers care more about taxes and social resentments than they do about economic justice, and are too stupid to recognize their own interests.
because they limit the profits of the rich.\
it''s easy to criticize unions, just like it''s easy to criticize any institution. they aren''t perfect, but they are necessary in a capitalist economy to advocate for working people.
Because workers in union jobs get a fair wage and safe work conditions and benefits so they can actually live and survive. This is everything the right and Republicans are against. The right is so close they can taste it. Most of the middle class is now the poor. They (and when I say they I include Obama in this) are taking everything away from the poor. This has been the long time dream of the right and what they''ve been working for since Reagan, they will be the masters, they being the top 2%, and the rest of us will be their slaves, working for a cot in a room with hundreds of others and maybe some stale bread. %0D\
No joke. Look at what''s happening. Look how Obama is not for unions even now that they helped get him elected. %0D\
If you''re not wealthy, very wealthy, if you have to work for a living, you are going to end up a slave.%0D\
We need to fight back now, when unions are strong workers are strong. Don''t resent those that have unions. Get yourself a union too.%0D
Need some help with this, if you can. I work at a union grocery store. I have a low-level manager (he is union also) who writes bullshit all over the newsletters in the breakroom. The latest was today. They have a sign that says "Why right to work is wrong". He crossed it out and put "would you like me to explain to you why unemployment is lower in right to work states? This is liberal propaganda." This guy is such a douche, he's 31, dates the 18 yr. olds because a grown woman wouldn't have him. I want to write something back, and there's someone on this site who tears apart the repub b.s. piece by piece and is very good at it. Can you help me out fellas? He also has a small dick from what some of his conquests say, just thought I'd throw that in.
Needs my talking points...
unions are messed up .but they do help the worker get a good wage and benefits. the leaders probably make a good dollar. but the employee is far well off when you compare to non union.you will never get rid of unions because people will always unite for something better.
Unions were necessary. they still are.
More like you've never been to school OP :)
The Republicans serve the wealthy and their corporate overlords. The CEOs and management of virtually all large corporations are wealthy Republicans who care about nothing except profits, bottoms lines, and the accumulation of yet more wealth and power.
Unions stand counter to their power and wealth, because unions care for and protect "the little guy": working people.
Unions represent working people; people who earn their income through their bodies, minds or both, and not through the "overseeing" of other workers or the management of wealth and assets.
Working people are the real producers of our society, because they provide the tangible goods and vital services that we need or use every day; health care, education, mass communication and public services like law enforcement and fire protection are all brought to you, along with electricity, water and the structures we live and work in, by unionized working people using their bodies or brains or both.
I like unions, my dad was in a union and we lived a middle class life because of it. However, is it safe to say that unions became too powerful and due to that became their own worst enemies? It seems that unions today are being forced to moderate on wages and pensions, thus helping protect and save some jobs. I'm all for negotiating a competitive wage, but if you're at a trade show in Chicago and it costs $150 for someone to plug an extension cord, then it seems something is wrong.
Unions were helpful at one time, now they're corrupt as hell. They ruined the airline and auto industry. Today they represent 9% of the workforce, so fuck those crooked Bastatrds.
One summer, about 35 years ago, I worked for my uncle's company. They bought this old five story building near downtown, and they were going to demolish it.
We wandered around looking for salvage. File cabinets, office furniture, whatever, and found some old boxes filled with papers in a basement storage room. The files were practically falling apart. I was curious. (Also trying to get out of doing anything resembling work.)
Apparently various groups of businessmen in the 30's 40's 50's were actively conspiring against unions, discussing ways to sabotage and intimidate. They had their meetings and offices at this building.
Many of them belonged to other civic groups and there were lots of "minutes" about how they were promoting and organizing within other seemingly benign groups, like say, The Lions Club, or the Kiwanis, or whatever.
I've never forgotten. This old building was where the office of one such organization was located. They were part of a network of similar organizations. I couldn't believe they actually kept notes. Their arrogance and their confidence was just chilling.
Some of the names were recognizable, prominent local families who are still viewed with reverence. These are the same people who believed that there was a "master race," a ruling class of elites, and the people who served them. Unions upended that concept.
The irony is that the "aspirational" working stiffs who vote Republican and make stupid accusations about "communism" are acting against their own interests. Corporations and unions aren't inherently evil. It's the lack of balance, and the unchecked greed that is so disgusting.
People who are against unions have no idea what they are or how they work. They only know the hollywood corrupt jimmy hoffa unions.
Unions, at their base, are the workers joining together to protect their rights, ensure a safe work environment and to bargain, collectively for benefits and wages.
I have worked in a union and there is a small percentage, like any group, who take advantage of it. For the larger part these are people who take pride in their work and ensure quality. They check each other's work and correct issues along they way to make sure they meet their quotas.
Republicans don't like unions because it takes a lot of the power away from the corporation. Collective Bargaining is a two way street but rather than an unfair distribution of pay, you know exactly how much you make in your job and everyone else. Overtime and Holiday pay as well. Unions negotiate health plans, dental plans retirement plans etc all things republicans want the corporation to control. They also do not like Unions because they historically have endorsed democrats.
Please. There is always going to be abuse and corruption in any organization. Tell me please, which corporations or industries have not committed acts of abuse or corruption? There's enough to spread around.
To say that "unions are too powerful" is nonsense. The Extreme Right has determinedly gone about the business of union busting for years. Union membership is much lower today than it was twenty years ago.
You may not remember when Ronald Reagan busted PATCO, the Air Traffic Controllers union when he came into office. It was his signal to the Right that it was time to get real serious about breaking union influence.
It's as if, just put one foot wrong and they are going to use that to define the entire union movement. The propaganda coming from the Right has penetrated into common jargon without any facts to back it up.
Even an anti-union thug like Henry Ford realized that once the assembly line was rolling, changing industrial America forever, people need to be able to afford the cars they built.
The labor union movement built the Middle class in America. it made it possible for the average non- college educated working stiff to earn a living wage and support a family and have a decent retirement.
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