Are people with Asperger''s Syndrome, sociopaths?

Both lack empathy, so how is a person with Asperger''s different from your typical socipath?\ \ How is a person with Asperger''s fully human if he can''t empathize with other people?\ \ Isn''t that person destined to become a sociopathic narcissist?

• At least they''re not comma splicers.

• That should be "narcissistic sociopath".

• OP, this is a good question. I think they may be. And they are portrayed as being highly intelligent, which I don''t think is true. Something is very off about them.

• Can a person have Asperger''s Syndrome and be empathetic? Or is that a diagnostic criteria?

• A narcissist needs attention and admiration from other people. %0D\ People with AS usually prefer to stick to themselves and don''t seem to have too much interest in other people at all.

• "Both lack empathy, so how is a person with Asperger's different from your typical socipath?"%0D %0D Aspies are like aliens from a different civilization. They have great difficulty understanding how and why people think, act, respond. They have trouble reading body language and inferring anything from conversation. They can learn by observing and mimicking the behavior and responses of others, but they can't recognize the cause/effect dynamic. They often do not show empathy because they can't connect other people's feelings to their own. And they don't hate people, they are usually trying desperately to connect in their imperfect human way, and feeling frustrated and angry when people respond in ways they don't expect and don't understand.%0D %0D Sociopaths understand all too well how people think, act and respond. They are master manipulators, and have no empathy because other people's feelings are immaterial. They do what they want to do, often cruelly and deliberately, knowing full well what the result will be, and they don't care. They are not "imperfect" (like Aspies), they are warped and damaged.%0D %0D That's pretty simplified, but it should explain the main points.%0D %0D

• Isn''t Asperger''s Syndrome a type of autism? Autism has nothing to do with being a sociopath.

• Aspergers is a scale, not a switch.%0D\ %0D\ Many people with Aspergers can empathize quite strongly or quite well, have compassion for others, and still be very awkward in social situations, not understand things that are "obvious" to others (like other people hitting on them, flirting with them, or trying to get them to go away, or what have you), and can still be most comfortable "in their own worlds".%0D\ %0D\ Most software developers (at least the hard-core kind who actually code complex stuff) tend to be somewhere on the Aspberger''s scale.%0D\ %0D

• Okay, but the end result is the same, right? Only one doesn''t give a shit and the other cares, but has no clue how to connect or feel for the other person.

• [quote]At least they''re not comma splicers.\ \ There are no comma splices there, just an unnecessary comma.

• yes they are narcissists and psychopaths%0D\ %0D\ not all narcissists have social skills

• What is comma splicing?

• People with Aspergers can have compassion and empathy. They just don''t appear to because they have difficulty reading emotions.

• Comma splicing is connecting two separate sentences with a comma R12, this should demonstrate it.

• r6 nailed it pretty well. i'd add this: asberger's are quite capable of feeling empathy but do have a bit of disconnect when trying to figure out how that applies to others because their own emotional responses are so very different. still they are quite good at grasping basic rules, so understand morality, as well right and wrong very well, and can operate very successfully within the basic guidelines of decent behavior. they generally have no desire to "break the rules" and are very conscious about how they fit into a society that sometimes perplexes them, so they try very hard to work within society's framework- to do otherwise, just makes things even [italic]more[/italic] confusing. sociopaths on the other hand, do not understand the concept of right and wrong, as it pertains specifically to them, as an individual. they will play by the rules of decent behavior as set down by society at large if it serves their purposes, but if not, have no problem disregarding those rules if it gets them what they want. the rules simply don't apply to them, nor are they held back from engaging in behavior harmful to others by any pangs of conscious. let's put it into schoolkid terms: the asperberger's child may like your shiny new bike but might feel awkward about asking if they can ride it. if they do ask, and you refuse because you were riding it to a friend's house, they might not understand why you refused, and while that may upset them (because they don't understand you were already using your bike with another goal in mind), they get that there is a boundary, and you are the decider about who gets to you your property. the most likely scenario is they'll blame themselves for asking, and never approach you again, as every time they see you, they'll play the scenario over in their heads and never understand the outcome. easier to avoid you all together. if a sociopathic child is refused, not only will they not understand [italic] why[/italic] they couldn't ride your bike, if they see an opportunity later to simply take your bike and use it anyway, they will. if you object, they may just hit you over the head with a rock and do it anyway (if they think they can get away without being caught). your ownership of the bike, your feelings about it, and even your life, aren't really considerations for them- they just want to ride the shiny new bike, and if they can find away to do so, they will- their only consideration is their immediate gratification, and whether the immediate situation places their own self in harm. you are not and will never be a factor in their decision making process last, a psychopath will just kill you and take your bike they aren't concerned about the consequences to your life or to theirs, they are just going to make mayhem if they feel like it. in fact, they couldn't stop themselves from taking your bike if they tried. they are the classic example of "poor impulse control", coupled with big time anger issues.

• OP, go off yourself. There is some ignorance we just don''t need here.

• Good explanation R15. \ \ R16=sociopath, right?

• Narcissists without social skills are the most exhausting fucking people in the world.

• [quote] [R16]=sociopath, right?%0D\ %0D\ Probably Asperger''s. Datalounge is filled with them.

• Terrific explanation R15.

• I totally agree R18, but they''re far less dangerous.

• Nope. This has been studied you know. Aspies don''t lack empathy, they can''t read social cues to display it. They can be taught how to better do this. Sociopaths can''t. They''re missing brain wiring. Pumping them full of oxytocin has no affect. They can''t absorb it.

• OP is a sociopath.

  Mildly Aspergery

• I disagree re narcissists without social skills are not dangerous

• People with Asperger''s Syndrome are NOT sociopaths.%0D\ %0D\ They are socially awkward and their thinking processes are skewed and they have quirks and eccentricities but they are not sociopathic.%0D\ %0D\ Sociopaths have no conscience. That is not true of Asperger''s. Sociopaths are master manipulaters; they love to stir things up and in fact feel bored if they aren''t doing something to cause trouble. They also have a propensity for violence. Again, none of that is true of Asperger''s.%0D\ %0D\ The ignorance and stupidity of the idiots on this thread are astounding. People with Asperger''s are "psychopaths?" "Narcissists?" %0D\ "Sociopaths?" I think fools who talk about things they know nothing about should shut the fuck up.

• We have been down this road before. Sociopaths and psychopaths are not technically two different phenomena. The problem is that all of you think they are, but half of you think that sociopaths are the meaner ones and half of you think psychopaths are. I myself thought that socio means they don''t care about others and manipulate and psycho that they hurt others and are disorganized and unable to follow rules; but others of you have made equally persuasive cases of the reverse. And APPARENTLY the psychiatric profession doesn''t systematically distinguish between them either. So stop trying to split hairs between them. Thank you.%0D

• I don''t, know.

• "Aspies are like aliens from a different civilization."%0D\ %0D\ They''re fictional?

• In my experience those who claim to have Asperger''s syndrome are just narcissistic assholes who try to make excuses for their anti-social, holier-than-though attitudes and behaviors. I know this doesn''t apply to everyone, but I would say that this syndrome is mostly "self diagnosed" by those who think they have it.

• I always thought a sociopath knew the difference between right and wrong but just didn''t care, that they willfully committed acts outside the boundaries of acceptable societal norms. If they truly can''t distinguish the difference then how are they different from the criminally insane?\ \ Asperger''s still sounds like an extreme type of introversion/shyness to me, a personality type not a disorder.

• Socies get lots of sex. Aspies don''t.

• People with Asperger''s Syndrome are just assholes without a 12-step programme.

• I know 2 Aspies, and they both have a good sense of morality.\ \ One of the 2 guys, I occasionally call him on some anti-social gaffes. Aspies tend to care about connecting with people for connection sake. Sociopaths only connect in order to manipulate.

• R15, what a great analogy.%0D --------let's put it into schoolkid terms: the asperberger's child may like your shiny new bike but might feel awkward about asking if they can ride it. if they do ask, and you refuse because you were riding it to a friend's house, they might not understand why you refused, and while that may upset them (because they don't understand you were already using your bike with another goal in mind), they get that there is a boundary, and you are the decider about who gets to you your property. the most likely scenario is they'll blame themselves for asking, and never approach you again, as every time they see you, they'll play the scenario over in their heads and never understand the outcome. easier to avoid you all together.------------%0D Unfortunately, this is the story of my life. My parents wouldnt listen to my teachers and pretended nothing was wrong - It was pretty widely accepted -everywhere- that I was just an asshole. Now I'm 54, can't really manage my life very well, have few friends, never a successful relationship. I'm very 'book smart' and have a decent job, but I often have poor judgement and can usually be relied on to say or do something somewhat inappropriate. Much less nowadays though, since I have become kind of a hermit and avoid most people-just to avoid embarrassment and discomfort. I'm a kind person and I DO have empathy, mostly when I am personally exterior to a situation I weep at movies, stop for people with broken down cars, give beggars paper money at christmas, visit the spca with treats. I just can't be part of a group, or a couple. The only sex I've had for the past 20 years is quick blowjobs in bookstores. It's very lonely and most people I know have no idea how extreme my situation is. They just think I'm an asshole. Mostly I think so too.

• ''Psychopath'' is a forensic designation, not a clinical diagnosis, although Robert Hare has been trying to get DSM to include psychopathy in the next revision.

• "The Mask of Sanity" is out of print now, but it is a fascinating look at sociopathy. Or is is it psychopathy? You can read and download it. Highly recommended...infinitely readable.

• If it''s any consolation, R34, you''re not the only one.%0D

• #34 is the quintessential Datalounger.

• Sometimes people who diagnosis themselves with Asperger''s Syndrome really have social anxiety. It might be bad enough the be called Social Anxiety Disorder or Avoidant Disorder. Since lack of empathy is one of the diagnostic criteria, if you have empathy when people aren''t directly in front of you but have difficulty expressing it when people are in front of you, you might just have social anxiety.

• No people with Aspergers are not sociopaths at all. Thats a highly stupid thing to say. Most sociopaths are highly socially adept, they simply use those skills without regard to other people. We are also fully human, what a bunch of bigots. I am very disappointed to see this on a gay website. We don't lack empathy either, no matter what kind of bullshit shrinks say and write. You are aware they used to say homosexuality was psychopathic behavior in need of treatment including shock therapy. From under the crushing weight of social stigma, ignorance, bigotry and a multibillion dollar Autism industry we are going to rise up and declare us ok and fully human and proud.

  Tyler

• People with social anxiety have overly excessive empathy for others. It exhausts them so they avoid social contact.

• Evidently, people with Asperger's Syndrome are unable to read dates.

  dude%2C%20this%20thread%20is%20almost%202%20years%20old%21%20let%20it%20go%21

• I remember telling Hans Asperger not to publish this lame shit, but he went right ahead with it.

  gramps

• R42, there is nothing wrong with reviving older threads. What weird rules you live by, R42.... 'Thou shall not revive an older thread'.... That you developed that weird code of conduct is absurd.

• Chung Ho from North Korea and people there do not have the assyburgers. We are too busy looking in fields for the much food. Why Americans have food named after buttocks I do not know, but North Koreans would only eat ass if they were gayness

  Chung%20Ho

• Some of the people on here are thick and ignorant others make very good points, especially the bike analogy applied to me very pertinently, can i point out Aspergers is a diagnosed condition and its not people hiding behind it, its a very real condition that has massive affects on people and whoever said that lack of empathy isnt associated with it there wrong, i struggle with empathy, and for the original question no we are not generally sociopaths but as with any one there are probably aspie sociopaths

  Anon

• The only thng in common between the two, besides being very self-centered, is the high degree of testosterone being released at birth. And sociopaths have always been around, in high numbers, whereas Asperger's astounding ascent is very recent (last twenty years). However, it seems like both Aspie's and sociopaths seem to be increasing in number very rapidly. I personally believe that something in the environment is responsible for pregnant mothers to develop high levels of testosterone, flooding the babies brains. Or chemically inhibiting estrogen. It could be dut to pesticides, lead, food additives, who knows. You just don't see Aspie women that are feminine, and sociopathic women tend to be very masculine as well. Somthing is happening in nature, right in front of our eyes, and we are failing to recognize it.

• People who can't use a comma correctly are sociopaths.

• [quote]And sociopaths have always been around, in high numbers, whereas Asperger's astounding ascent is very recent (last twenty years). The name Asperger's is recent, but there have always been weird people who fit the Aspie diagnosis. Same with Autism Spectrum Disorder (this is the correct name). Nowadays, there are a lot of people being diagnosed with Autism, but there have always been people labelled as "slow" or even "retarded". Also, when families had a child who was mentally disabled, they often hid the child away, either in an institution or just locked up in the house. And they rarely acknowledged the existence of these children, even to the point of pretending the child doesn't exist and never has. Makes one wonder, are there really more children being born with autism? Or is it mostly increased/improved diagnosing coupled with more openness about the existence of slow children?

• Aspies = obsessed with rules Socies = don't care about no rules

• So if I understand R50, a sociopath is more likely to be guilty of a comma splice than an Aspie.

• I never knew about this, but I think it may describe me. I've never been like a "normal" person and have never known why. Would I go to a psychiatrist to find out if this may be the reason?

• Okay the latest description I heard is that psychopaths are the conscience free manipulators, the people who like to hurt others and can't follow rules are called Antisocial Personality Disorder people, and sociopaths are people who inhabit a community with antisocial norms. That is they may be upstanding citizens in the gang or party or family or corporation, but they do horrific things because that is the norm of that community.

• bump

• Going to a workshop for ceu credits to keep my license up to date next month. Will try to get more info OP.

  kcguy

• I know a couple of people who say they are on the Asperger's scale. They have successful social lives within the circles they've created. Both are grad students (one in science, one in social science) and both are really into dogs - dog sports, dog breeds etc. The science person is quite witty but definitely falls apart outside her comfort zone and can come across rude and awkward. She offends people regularly without noticing. The other one is harder to break through with, but is really kind and thoughtful in most ways once you know her a little. I suspect she really just has social anxiety. Neither one behave anything like a sociopath.

• "Socies get lots of sex. Aspies don't." That's an incredibly stupid statement. How would YOU know how much sex "socies" or "aspies" get? But maybe there's a grain of truth to it. Sociopaths have no morals or scruples; I guess they're willing to fuck anything. People with Asperger's are definitely not like that.

• I have Asperger's and I am the mother of two children (one of which has it too). It is so sad to me that people know so little about this condition. People with AS do not hurt others, others hurt them. My level of empathy is extremely high, as is my son's. In fact, if anything, he is empathetic to a fault. Our society would not be where it is today without Aspergers syndrome. I challenge you to look into how many major players in history and science had this neurological condition. A contemporary that comes to mind is Bill Gates. It should be mentioned that Mr. Gates is heavily philanthropic .............. not really something you see in a sociopath.

• Ass-pies (my partner is one, fully diagnosed by a neuro-psych) do lack empathy. A problem must be shoved down an Ass-pie's throat before he'll notice. Even then the best an Ass-pie can do is feign concern (something they learn to mimic). They're like computers: Garbage in/garbage out. They have to be told how to feel, how to behave, what to do, and what the expected outcome is.

  But%20I%20do%20love%20him...

• Aspies are not fully aware of what's going on around them, and are not alert to their surroundings. If a crime is being commited against you, don't expect an aspie to help you out. A) they won't even notice the crime as they are wrapped up in their thoughts and B) they don't have the constitution to get in a fight or be protective of others. They are perpetual bystanders in life, and will exclude you if your presence requires any effort. I have learned that Aspies will not be my friends, because no matter what I do, they will not be there for me. This has been an agonizing lesson for me, and I have finally surrendered to it.

• Writer Augesten Burroughs has a brother with AS. The title is Look Me In The Eye and his name is John Robinson. Very readable account of what it is like to have AS. He was not diagnosed until an adult and spent all of his childhood being "different " and not knowing why.

• You actually believe autobiographical details related by Augusten Burroughs? Welcome to datalounge, Melanie Wilkes.

• My signs a Sagittarius I'm into Spanish cheese, my hair line is receding but I'm getting a weave - GETTING A WEAVE.

• His brother wrote the booking not Burroughs. Sorry I was not clear about that.

• Beware: sociopaths may say that they have asperger's or be misdiagnosed. Pathologicals will claim any mental illness or condition they can to justify their bad behavior or to get any pity they can from victims.

• The only sure sign of being a sociopath is a tendency to follow the penultimate word of a sentence or question with a comma.

• Very true, R65.

• Sociopaths have no emotions only animal instinct a human brain on auto pilot that shouldn't even be alive. Asperger's emotions are explained in the following metaphor: "If emotions are of the heart then those of an aspy are of the life giving blood that flows and pumps said heart not the heart itself." It is Neurotypicals whom do not understand cause/effect that is why they fail when we succeed and they are closer on scale to a sociopath. Our emotions are of the intent, purpose, and motive they are verbs and adverbs not adjectives or nouns for we are not superficial. How information comes into the mind and some does not is it a blacklist or a whitelist? The reasoning used is it inductive or deductive/abductive? Tell me how often do you hear someone say "I hate ignorant people" then they ignore someone? As Freud once said most minds are a constant conflict between the id, ego, super ego. One with Aspergers is not in conflict and that is how we have such inner peace. We are not our own worst enemy for we have no conceit we can not be a narcissist. The only part of social empathy we lack is true timid nature the epigenetic transference of stress that limits emotion.

  dudesowin

• it's cruel how aspies define the rest of us as neurotypicals.

  aspies still dont get it

• I could think of a more proper word but then some transgender vigilante aspy will smote me from the heavens. I suggest a new word based upon "timid" how about tiggot?

  dudesowin

• Why would they be sociopaths OP? Most people I've met with aspergers are just like anyone else, but don't fit it because they aren't full of self aggrandizing bullshit.

• "Narcissists without social skills are the most exhausting fucking people in the world." THIS IS TRUE!!!!

• I think I know of a married couple where the wife was a psychopath and the husband was an Aspie. It was not pretty, actually it was a dangerous combination.

• Isabel Sanford had an autistic child. But she whooped his ass till he quit acting up. That's how black folk take care of the fake illnesses of America.

• wtf r74?

• We have a troll. But no seriously I wouldn't try the R74 method. It will end badly maybe not today, not tomorrow not next week, maybe not for many years. Trust me it will end badly. The really sad thing is this mentality is something you see every time this discussion comes up. Some asshole goes just beat the kid it will fix em. Yeah if your lucky enough to give them a nervous breakdown so they end up in a mental institution for the rest of their lives. Because if you fail to do at least that they will probably hunt you down. Try times as hard as you do at striking up a conversation and continue to be punched in the face every time you finally get to a point in the conversation where your actually having a discussion. See just how many more conversations your willing to have. But no beating the crap out of that kid will fix it.

• WTF, r76?

• My son has Aspergers and has great sympathy for people. Sometimes too much. He's always had a small group of friends that accepted him and love him - he's been fortunate that way. But other than his family and this group of friends, he really doesn't like most other people and is awkward in social situations. But I'll tell you one thing. If I ever want the HONEST truth about anything, my son is the person that will tell me. And that is one of the many things I love about him most.

• Thanks for sharing, r78. That was insightful. I have heard that people with Asperger's can't really lie. Do you think that is true?

• I have Asperger's and can be undiplomatically honest. I learned how to control it, with a lot of practice, over the years. On the other hand, given that I'm socially awkward, there is much I hide or don't show about myself. I have a sociopathic "tendencies" to me, which I see as distinct from the Asperger's. That is the truly cold, unempathetic part of me. My partner's family have a history of mental illness, including paranoid schizophrenia on his father's. It's fortunate we cannot reproduce.

• Whoever asked the question, "Are aspies sociopaths," is extremely ignorant! People with Aspergers Syndrome are not destined to go through life without feeling compassion for others. In fact, aspies are often emotional and more vulnerable than most people. They tend to feel victimized and threatened by the rest of the world. They fear rejection and the potential for loss of friends. They struggle with their difficulties and long for acceptance and understanding. They're human. Probably more human than the idiot who posted such a ridiculous question!

• This is ridiculous. Yes, people with Asperger's can have sociopathic tendencies. Yes, they can become sociopathic narcissists. Does that make them any less human? Absolutely not. How do I know? Because I have Asperger's. I am most certainly not sociopathic, nor do I lack in empathy. I feel emotions just as others do. And I can relate to them (annoyance and a touch of anger right now). I have Asperger's. That has made socializing a little difficult, and sometimes people do need to explain social rules to me. But that doesn't mean I don't feel as others do. With all due respect, it does sound like you're calling out an entire community of people without really understanding said community. We are people trying to get by, just like everyone else. Maybe some of us won't ever achieve an understanding of certain things. But who isn't like that? Most of us are well intentioned. We have our bad seeds of course, but again what community doesn't?

• I love dudesowin's comment, but I worry that it may have been culled from a "famous quotes" list.

• Steven Raichlen of the grilling show seems like an Aspie.

• Robert Holmes has ass burgers

• I have aspergers I have as much empathy as anyone else the symptom is not showing your empathy and it's because of difficulties in understanding body language and tone of voice if you figure out somones upset or sad you still have to get over the hurdle of communicating all the body language and tone of voice to show your sympathy when ever I misread Somone I'm judged ad cold it's hurtfull to be misjudged constantly. many people with aspergers who some may judge as having no empathy may have more than you it's just incredibly tiring constantly trying to understand people from all the little clues and try to interpret them and response perfectly withou making any little mistake.

  You%20don%27t%20know%20how%20lucky%20you%20are

• The argument would only be credible when discussing more severe types of autism.

• Aspiegirl, please weigh in on this.

• I have asbergers but it's not that i cant have empathy it's more like i have to think logicly instead of creativly. hope this helps.

  Jose Alfredo Sebastian Colin Martinez

• I think they are, OP. Something is very wrong with them. They are unemotional, nerdy, unimaginative, and robotic, and there is this big lie being pushed that they are smarter than the rest of us. Give me a break, this is typical nerd defensiveness.

• People with Aspergers syndrome are disloyal, mean to the core, and selfish to an extreme degree. When push comes to shove if you are in the way of someone who has Aspergers syndrome and they have any power over you at all, run. They will absolutely throw their own mother or child overboard to preserve there ridiculous sense of always HAVING to being right and perfect. They are the most hurtful ass holes on the planet. I don't care about all the explanation behind their behaviors. The bottom line is they belong in padded cells where they can do NO HARM to anyone. Parents of ADULT children with Asp. know what I am talking about. They will break your heart, shit on it then throw it under the bus, then tell you that you are the crazy one. They can never do not wrong. Don't ever empower one of these people.

• What tests are done to diagnose someone with Aspergers?

• R68 makes me laugh. So not true. Aspies without ego? Oh, hilarious.

• The difference between a sociopath and a psychopath is that the psychopath is psychotic, meaning they suffer from delusions (false beliefs) and are disconnected from reality. A sociopath may kill someone to get a payout from a life insurance policy but the psychopath will kill because they believe their victim is say, possessed by the Devil. The motive and state of mind is the key difference. Psychopaths, sociopaths, narcissists and Aspies all lack empathy. The Aspie lacks empathy because of a developmental disability. Very similar to a three year old child who hasn't learned to see others as a separate entity.

• When an Aspie claims to be able to have empathy they are often mistaking empathy for sympathy. They think you mean that you can put yourself in the shoes of another and then feel sorry for them or have to like them. Having empathy for another only requires that you are able to put yourself in their situation. Nothing more. One doesn't have to feel sorry for them also. An example would be the take on a drunk driver who accidentally killed someone. A normal person would be able to imagine the remorse and fear of the drunk driver and still believe they must suffer the consequences of their actions. Not feel sorry for the drunk driver at all, just imagine how horrible that drunk driver would feel and acknowledge that. An Aspie would not be able to imagine how the drunk driver is feeling but just concentrate on their behaviors and the outcome to the victim. Because of this inability, Aspies often cannot forgive other people. They just see how the other person harmed them or others. They cannot conceive of what led to the behavior of the person doing the harming. Perhaps in this case the drunk driver suffers from alcoholism. They can't make that connection and as a consequence can never have a true, soulful connection with other living beings. They're usually coach potatoes and never do their fare share of chores around the house. They should never have children because not only are the chances great that the child will be on the spectrum but they won't understand the child and will leave the burden of responsibility, physical and emotional on the normal partner.

• This thread is horribly offensive

• I should probably read the entire thread before replying but from what I read, it would make me angry, but more importantly, I would waste time taking on ridiculous statements one at a time. There is ignorance here, but a lot of it is perfectly understandable. I believe the misconceptions are largely due to the people talking about Asperger Syndrome are not people who HAVE AS. A lot of the research that has been done used terminology in a specific way that was then picked up by caregivers and parents who are involved in activist groups and used incorrectly. The issue of empathy is an excellent example. I now know personally three women with AS and about five men. We do NOT lack empathy. Not one of us. In fact we feel very intensely for other people. We tend to have a sense of justice so strong that we cannot see gray areas, making us sometimes seem rigid but in other situations passionate and devoted to a cause. We are not disloyal--quite the opposite. Betraying a friend falls into the BAD THING column. I don't want to make us sound morally superior or in any other way superior for that matter. We are just wired differently, and it means that our behaviors aren't always a good fit for the "neurotypical" world. While it is true that we can be extremely caring, it is also true that we can be so inflexible on the right/wrong thing that we can't understand why someone would do something another way. If I go on a date (which seldom happens, although I'm considered attractive by many--too weird!) and the person says something I take to be racist, classist, or homophobic--even heterocentric--that's it. I will finish my meal and the date will be over. At work, if I find out someone is doing something wrong--and by wrong I don't mean something vague like laziness, I mean taking lunch without clocking out, or clocking in from lunch when they are supposed to but going back to the cafeteria and spending another 20 minutes eating--I will rat them out. I have to. There are times when you have to let things go by, and often we just can't do that. We're not so good with the workplace politics, in other words. We are incapable of juggling subtleties in social interaction. When situations are touchy, we are the proverbial bull in a china shop, and this is one reason people see us as being rude or blunt or disloyal: if pushed to take sides in a situation, we will go to the side we believe is right, even if more of our friends are on the other side. To me, this is not a betrayal of friendship. In my mind, whether something is right or wrong is separate from our friendship. It goes both ways: I expect my friends to tell me if they think I am doing something wrong and that they will not support it. I almost made a large decision after taking into account many facts as well as the opinions of trusted friends. This was before my diagnosis, by the way. In the end I decided not to do the thing; when I told my friends, they were relieved because they hadn't thought it was a good idea. I was very upset, but I wasn't angry, because I know that they were giving me support in something I was very enthusiastic about. That's what most people do, right? But to me, their support was more of a betrayal. Since then, and especially since my diagnosis, I have explained to my friends that I absolutely always want their true opinion, even if what they tell me might be disappointing or hurtful to me. I guess this is too long, more to follow in the next post.

  Aspiegirl

• There is a lot of conflict in the arena of Autism Spectrum Disorders right now. There are parent groups that think of Autism/Asperger as an illness that must be cured. There are quacks who take advantage of their hopes (if interested, look up Defeat Autism Now). If I were to say "DAN is quackery taking advantage of people who are desperately hopeful there is a cure for their kid who is actually just made the way s/he is made" in my support group, at least one woman would attack me, possibly physically. There would be a knock-down drag-out. People who are themselves Aspie are only beginning to speak for themselves. If you want to know what's going on inside an Asperger mind, look at Temple Grandin's writing. Look at wrongplanet.net, the main discussion board for Spectrum people. Look at David Finch's "Journal of Best Practices." I think what's most important is something another Aspie friend said to me: "You know what they say, if you know one person with Asperger's you know one person with Asperger's."

  Aspiegirl

• Not sure if this is a troll thread or whatever. I want to thank the reasonable and intelligent posters in the thread. Unfortunately most of the replies here and the OP's post just piss me off. My brother as asperger's, and he is one of the sweetest people ever. Everyone loves him. He knows right from wrong and would never harm someone. While people with asperger's have difficulty understanding other people's emotions sometimes and also they may show their own emotion in unusual ways, this does not mean they are crazy or sociopaths. People with asperger's are largely misunderstood by ignorant fools such as the OP. When someone with asperger's lashes out, it's always because this person is frustrated and was usually being harrassed nonstop by some sick person who gets off on bullying others. If you love and respect someone with asperger's, this person will be the sweetest person you know, even if he/she may be different. Sure, they go into their own world sometimes, but that's because asperger's is on the autistic spectrum. I've written this before, but I'm appalled and ashamed that SOME gays are just as intolerant of other minorities as SOME straights are of us. OP you should feel embarrassed for even asking this question.

• The people I have met with AS have been far more logical and humane than most of the 'normal' people I have met. Just a thought, but perhaps aspies are the sane ones in world of mentally ill persons who think they are normal.

• It's a shame our society isn't so much into bead necklaces anymore--this kind of craft-work could really supplement the aspie income.

• I belive that Aspergers is under-reported and is much more common place than previously thought. I swear, everywhere I turn there is someone unable to make casual conversation, make eye contact, say "Hello," or "Good Morning," or even observe the world around them. Well, f*ck me if I get attacked on the street because no ASPIE is going to try to help me. They won't call 911 either--my emergency would intrude on their scheduled cartoon watchng. And why are so many adults watching cartoons, anyway? Aspies are useless in an emergency, I am learning this. They will NOT come to anyone's aid. Admit it Aspies--you are too self-centered to assist others in an emergency!!!

• Cheryl = Asperger's Julie = Sociopath

  peg

• It is true that if you were attacked by some crazy they would be useless and probably freeze. You're on your own and better pray for a good samaritan stranger to step in. They also won't have your back if you are attacked verbally. Of course they don't want to be like that. Who would? They're scared to death of confrontation, face to face. So their retaliation for feeling wronged is classically passive-aggressive. They save their angst for strangers online because they're too afraid to speak up for themselves in real life. They usually make excellent employees and are very honest. There are gifts that come with the syndrome. It isn't all gloom and doom.

• j

• I think I know of an Aspie who was married to a psychopath. It didn't end well.

• The difference between the lack of empathy in persons with autism spectrum disorder vs. sociopaths is sociopaths have no conscience and use people to satisfy there needs. Autistics and Aspies typically have a strict moral code and adhere to it. Their moral code is based on logic not empathy and they have a conscience.

• Disgusting OP and disgusting thread. I know 2 people with Aspergers and they are such sweet people. Awkward? sure but they would never hurt anyone.

• Aspergers can feel empathy perfectly fine. They know that it hurts when a person is in pain, they can feel sorry for them, just as a 'normal' person can. They can also feel nothing, like 'normal' people also sometimes does. And to say they aren't people, aren't you the mean, insensitive one now? Do you think an Asperger won't feel hurt too, when someone doubts whether they can feel or not? They sometimes just don't know how to react. But if you happened to be crying silently on the street, how many 'normal' people would stop and ask what was wrong if they didn't know you? Very few as it's not socially okay to stick ones nose in others business. But more Aspergers would stop, because they wouldn't give a damn about socially correct or not. They'd be more worried about you. They might not know how to help, or even become too helpful. They can shut down when confronted with feeling, because they don't know how to help. But most can feel empathy, they just won't get it if you don't show it. They can't read it unless they can see it, so if you walk around Aspergers and look a bit moody, they won't notices. But they will be quick to ask if you're openly showing it.

• I'm pretty sure my mom is a sociopath and my father is autistic. And I have both of these tendencies inside of me, I have autism and sociopathy in me. I used to torture animals as a child, for fun, but stopped as I aged. I don't tell anyone this, of course; never have and never will. My morality is based upon logic and not emotion. I have trouble conveying the right emotions most of the time and it has led to problems over the years. Because of my toxic personality I tend to stay away from people. I have a propensity to want to cause chaos but then I won't understand why a person is judging me for what I've done and can I manipulate people, hardcore. My parents were a horrible combination. Both of them were incredibly neglectful, my mother constantly stealing from me and my father trapped within is own world of morality, the Bible. My dad stayed with my mom out of a sense of duty and my mother stayed with my father because he was the sucker that she could live off of. I am almost entirely incapable of socializing and I admit that. But then people think you're mean if you don't talk to them, when that's not the case. I'm just tired of hurting people.

• Know an example of a rude, demanding, loud, very large person with no empathy for others who is encyclopedically expert in one field (classical music). She blames everyone for not understanding her special condition. She also becomes hostile when people laugh at jokes she doesn't get -- specifically irony and satire.

  Davidson

• All I know is that there is something profoundly wrong with nerds. Very robotic and unemotional.

• Many of you are confusing two different traits: 1) lack of empathy, and 2) propensity to violence. Very different, not necessarily related.

• I'm waiting for Heather the Asberger's Girl from "America's Next Top Model" to shoot up Fashion Week next. "Take this, bitches... You wanna see empathy?" Don't say I didn't warn ya'. "Lagerfeld down!"

  the%20%22Amazing%20Race%22%20one%20could%20blow%20at%20any%20moment%20too

• Thanks for the great explanation. Allow me to add a couple comments. This question is a little like asking, "Does a person who walks to school pack their own lunch?". They may or may not. These two event are not related to one another. So they very well may do both. A person with a broken leg may have a broken femur. But this does not mean that they also have a broken tibia. They may have one, the other, or both. Therefore, I think we can all agree that it is possible for a person with Asperger's Syndrome to also be a sociopath since they are not mutual exclusive conditions. At the time of this writing there is still not much confirmation regarding Lanza and exactly what he was diagnosed with (if anything). But, based on his actions I would say that he was a sociopath who crossed the line and became a psychopath. And I bet that will be the final conclusion. btw - A comma splicer, although this is my first time ever hearing the expression, is a person who joins what should be two separate sentences with a comma. Very clever expression, I love it, I think I shall try it.

  XpyDDer