What are some things that frustrate you about other gay men?
Let''s talk about each other. Go ahead and vent.
This thread will hit 500 posts by sundown.
They won''t have sex with me.
They always want to know what frustrates me about other gay men.
Many are shallow and buy overpriced shit because it''s "in." They can be worse than high school students trying to fit in.
All those other gays are awful but I''m not! %0D\
I''m soooo much better than other gay men!
Threads trashing gays belong at free republic
Because many are cowards who live in the closet, have fake marriages, and hurt other people with their deceptions.
We don''t treat each other right.\
We''re catty, snobby, and vindictive.\
We''ve convinced ourselves and each other that money and "status" are all that counts and have trapped ourselves in an adult high school that is hell.\
Many are elitist, classist, and racist.\
Mean-spirited remarks are confused for wit.
I love gay men. We all share similar experiences growing up not feeling "part of" society in a way. I find it to be a strong bond whether other gays feel that way or not.\
That said, I hate that gay in every crowd or social circle who is bitchy, jaded, sardonic to the point of exhausting me. There seems to be one in every group of friends. Always "on", never ever real. The friends all love, encourage and laugh at this gay. But no one outside of the circle finds this gay to be at all interesting. I find him to be tiring and depressing.
[quote]Many are shallow and buy overpriced shit because it''s "in." They can be worse than high school students trying to fit in.%0D\
Agree with R4 about the blind allegiance to brands and brand snobbery. Too many gay men blow their money on things to impress rather than to improve or to enjoy; they may as well spend it these...%0D\
The same negative qualities that frustrate me about gay men (hypocrisy, snobbery, bigotry, selfishness, superficiality, arrogance, and mean-spiritedness) are the same things that frustrate me about all groups of people, regardless of gender or orientation. I''ve learned the hard way that gays are absolutely no better than any one else, as much as some might want to believe otherwise.
So many of them refuse to drink my piss. It mystifies me, because I just know they want to.
Is this Thread for straight people too? %0D\
In genera: immature, irresponsible, and prone to substance abuse.
I''ve discovered that the gay men who were picked on and whose lives were made a daily living hell in middle and high school are always the most vicious and abusive to other gay men as adults.
R19, or to anyone for that matter.\
My vote goes to cookie smelling face.
The obsessive TEXTING!
They sometimes vote republican.
All types of people can have the tendency to be petty and cruel but certain gay men go about it in such a joyous, shrill way that is very unique. Also in certain social circles bitchery is cherished, worshiped and applauded. Straight people don''t revel in cuntiness the way that gay men do.
I think a lot of gay men are the walking wounded. I think we all have an innate sense of humour and are sensitive because we feel like outsiders from an early age. I think life beats up on the gays and we create protective shells of bitchiness, snobbery and superficiality to insulate and protect ourselves. I am guessing as the struggle to mainstream gay life becomes more intrenched, we may evolve and our splendid insides will match our fabulous outsides and we will treat each other better.
The fake/affected nelly prissy gay-voice effeminacy.%0D\
I''m not talking about natural effeminacy. I''m talking about the FAKE "gay-acting" that people put on like an outfit. When you see them one on one in their home or apartment, they behave normally (or even naturally effeminate), but suddenly at the gay bar or out in public it''s like they''re all GURRRRL! this and MAAARRRYYY! that. %0D\
It''s so repugnant, such a turn-off, and so unnecessary.%0D\
I like my effeminacy natural, thanks.%0D\
We don't treat each other right.%0D
We're catty, snobby, and vindictive.%0D
We've convinced ourselves and each other that money and "status" are all that counts and have trapped ourselves in an adult high school that is hell.%0D
Many are elitist, classist, and racist.%0D
Mean-spirited remarks are confused for wit.%0D
As a straight reading this it saddens me that in a large part, straight society has created much of this by alienating gay men to the point many only exist in a side world of other gay men and a particular brand of in-fighting, cattiness and ego trips ensue to compete in a smaller food chain.%0D
On the other hand the wit and humor is so spitefully spot on and delightful in part it also created a really cool other culture, which you just don't get in straight society. Many of the DL comments would blow the mainstream away in their wonderful vindictiveness and intelligence. You only have to look at the side panel here and compare it to the average so-called 'normal' mainstrem WASPish discussion forum on any topic and they can't hold a candle to people in here. %0D
I had a conversation with a bi-girl friend that I have that really shed a light on some of the things I was doing. \
She said that I would say things that were kind of mean under the guise of "wit", and that even though she knew I was kidding, it really hurt her feelings. It wasn''t anything nasty, just small subtle digs at her successes, even though we both knew that I was happy for her.\
I think it was the first time anyone ever really pointed it out to me, and I immediately stopped doing it with her, and soon enough to everyone altogether. I still have a very dry sense of humor, but I guess it''s just more situational and not directed at people, per se.\
I''m certainly no saint, but I don''t get into talking badly about other people. Even though I guess I''m "hot", I still remember what it was like to be teased mercilessly for being overweight and a homo in high school. Why would I want to do that to anyone else?
R27 does not understand the term "family". \
Is he "Family"? is she "Family"? Gay people have been rejected from the outside world, so we have to make our own families. The bitchiness and cat fights in gay male circles are more comical than serious, we know that, you can''t see that from the outside.\
The bottom line is, in this world where the worst want to kill gays and the best still consider us not much more than entertainment, the only people that gays and lesbians can really let down their shields with, are other gays... family. Straight people don''t understand that.
I''d rather concentrate on what I love about being a gay man. It has given me the ability to open my eyes to problems other individuals have. Accepting myself as a gay man allowed me to love.\
I forget which post it was, but the guy or gal who wrote that mean-spiritedness, snobbery, bigotry et al are things that are not peculiar to the gay experience, but to the human one is spot on!
Bonnie Prince Charlie
The mean spiritedness towards lesbians. Gay men are also seem to remain in that high school mind set that creates a hierarchy based on looks.
There''s nothing worse than a flock of fags.
I think R24 hit the head of the nail. Most gays are a product of the feeling of isolation we felt at an early age.\
My problem with most of the gay men I know is that they have turned into sheep over the past decade. Everyone has the same short hair, the same shorts, the same flip-flops, the same sunglasses, the same underwear. It''s like they don''t dare express themselves the way they want - rather the way the majority does.
Snobbery, inflated egos, rampant materialism, and an obsession with status.
"My vote goes to cookie smelling face."%0D\
I don''t think this is fair. How can one control face?
Welcome to DL, R35. We have posters here who stridently insist that effeminate young boys are to blame for being, well, effeminate. %0D\
I''d add "Worship of straight males and their mannerisms" and "Disdain for all things feminine" to my list, except that it really only applies to a subset of gay men.
Using terms like gayface and gay voice as if they actually had meaning and referred to every gay man. Oh and the whole gaydar thing.
Their intoxication with vapidity.
Empty elitism and obsession with status.
They make me feel bad about my bad grammer on a anonymous message bored.
As well you should, r40.
It''s a love/hate thing
The lack of community anymore. There used to be a gay community even during the "AIDS" crisis of the 1980's.
It's not so much the superficiality,arrogance,selfcenteredness,etc. It's the lack of getting together as one group and treat another regardless of social background,nationality,race,language,religion in a respectful manner. You have the Log Cabins vs Gay Democrats,gay blacks vs gay chinese,etc. We are all treated differently by the "heterosexual"majority and we need to come together and deal with it.
I can't believe the hatred in the world and ignorance.
I am in my forties and frankly if no one likes that fact that's their problem. I am me and I like myself very much and I like those who respect me and I will respect them. I have seen to much division in the "gay community" to know that no matter what age you are, you are still gay. I also don't get the "straight acting" mentality that has been dividing gay men as well. Even "straight" men don't always act so "straight". It's a false and made up persona that is really destructive to one's ego.
I find you cannot express any unhappiness over something said or done without you becoming the problem.
So many gay men are as thin skinned as they're sharp tongued.
most seem illiterate to me
Unfortunately most straight seem so too these days.
I'd have to say there is an immaturity. I joined the college gay group of my class and after a couple issues sent them a list of some people I knew where they were, including an ex of mine from college days, so they could increase their members. The membership guy sent back a bitchy reply, saying that ex was in the group and if I read my last issue of the newsletter I would have known that. Well I went through all my old emails and there was no last issue of the newsletter. So another member finally sent it to me. My ex had written bitchy things about me so they decided to sent out the newsletter to everyone BUT me, so they could all have a chuckle at my expense but I wouldn't know.
Apparently the membersship guy I corresponded with on email hadn't known "the plan."
Gay culture is highly conformist and narrow in its definition of happiness.
Everything is about appearance, status, consumerism, and social dominance (bitchiness, relational aggression).
I think the self-loathing and shame heaped on gay people has a lot to do with their neverending quest for perfection, popularity, affluence, etc.
The constant need to butch up.
Too many still trying to be the evil popular girl they wished they were in middle school.
Because so many gay men settle for less just because they want to be accepted by society in general. They settle for relationships just because they were bought up to think relationships are a part of adulthood; they settle for crappy jobs just because they are able to go dance every weekend or hook up in clubs; they settle for shallow friendships just because those people entertain them, etc etc.
Many gay men aren't like this, and those are the ones I seek out as friends/mentors.
Empty snobbery about status, as some have already pointed out.
Guys who bitch about how promiscuity is not normal for gay men and then years later, cry about how lonely they all are.
What FRUSTRATES me? That in 2012 there is still so much self loathing and toxic behavior for so many gay men. And that even with more media exposure than ever and more acceptance than ever, we still have celebrity closet cases who command our attention. For every Anderson Cooper we have a creepy Tom Cruise or John Travolta. In 2012? Really?
I am an older guy. Early 50's. Still love life and don't have a problem with this age, after going through my midlife thing. But I find it really hard to meet a guy in my age range (for dating or friendship, either one) who doesn't have some stereotypical "Velvet Rage" drama going on somewhere. Or really myopic attitudes or priorities. Or who isn't emotionally stunted. Shockingly so. Rare to meet a guy who is HIS OWN PERSON and who doesn't follow some "gay guidebook" of behavior in some ways. You know, HAS to vacation in certain places. LIVE in certain areas. OWN certain books, movies, artwork, furniture. In the 90s everyone had a fucking Pottery Barn or Crate and Barrel cloned living space. Not sure what the sheep are doing now.
I guess, ultimately, I am frustrated that more gay men don't have true self esteem, don't genuinely like themselves. Are, even into their 50's, 60's and beyond, still searching for that acceptance from external sources. There are still far too many walking wounded out there.
What frustrate me about other gay men? that they keep bumping ancient threads to live
quit it bitch your not doctor frankenstein resurrecting the dead
how promiscuity IS NORMAL for Gay men...they cry later
All the hotties and charismatic people died of AIDS so the people left amongst the eldergays are the ones who couldn't get laid in the 70s and 80s.
Well, some of you thought this but nobody was prepared to say it because it is shallow.
r56, that is such bullshit. Do you KNOW how many people are on this planet, dumbass? Talk about a false equivalency.
Clearly, this thread was started by a mysangist lesbian shit stirring troll who has nothing better to do than come on here and try to maintain the matriarchal hegemony she knows is fading into a new era of male empowerment.
Bravo, r53. Brilliant and spot-on.
I find that gay men are terrified of friendship and intimacy with other gay men.
(Intimacy here does not mean sex)
the fallacy that gay men are fashion forward - shallow, I know.
rarely do I see a gay man with his own sense of fashion rather, he succumbs to the herd mentality
in PTown this week all the young guys wear exactly - I mean, exactly - the same thing: colorful shorts, tanks tops and these dreadful high-top sneakers or, what now must be the new trend, bright colored sneakers like neon pink, green and yellow
the are clones
All the felching and Golden Girls reruns. Wait, that's just my boyfriend? :(((((
Most of these complaints can be found among straights.
I don't know even know what he meant by "Velvet Rage scenario." I think he is one of those people he complains about.
[quote]What FRUSTRATES me? That in 2012 there is still so much self loathing and toxic behavior for so many gay men.
[quote]I find that gay men are terrified of friendship and intimacy with other gay men.
(Intimacy here does not mean sex)
^^This. And let me add that all of my friends have always been other gay men. The poster who talked about "family" has it right. They're my brothers, and I can't help feeling that way even toward the ones I don't like very much.
I have observed genuine nastiness between gay men (which is sad), but an awful lot of the cuntiness (especially the variety you see on DL) really is affectionate, when you get right down to it (whether a lot of the guys here will admit to that or not).
When I call another gay man a mary or a queen, even in a seemingly bitchy manner, it really is a term of endearment.
R63, he's referring to a book called The Velvet Rage.
While I mostly agree with the complaints about gay men following the herd, being sheep and so on, is that really so strange or tragic? Most people, gay or straight, want to fit in with the crowd. They want to blend in and be part of the tribe, not stand out from it and be the weirdo. This is just natural HUMAN behaviour, not specific to gay men.
Having said that, I couldn't fit in if I tried. I've always been one step behind, ahead, and to the side. Not better, just different. A weirdo with strange tastes in things. Shy and introverted. Bookish and artsy. I thought when I came out I would finally find my tribe amongst other gay people and fit in. I was wrong. I found people who shared my sexual identity but that's where it ended. I found gay friends but not a group. People who were also weird or who at least appreciated it.
So anyway .... I try not to be too judgmental about other gay men. We're all just trying our best to get through life with some amount of happiness. If some are happy being part of the gay herd with their gym muscles, fauxhawks, and A&F tees, then more power to them.
But if there's one thing I can't abide it's cruelty. The mean, catty bitchiness has to stop. It makes you ugly.
Oh, I hate those queens. Those other queens, I mean.
I know the book R65, and I still don't get the reference.
Most of my friends are straight men. Less drama.
They assume they're the only ones with "tragedy" in their background.
No scruples about making a play for my partner, except some have the grace for doing it behind my back.
Most can't handle rock music; if they do it has to be some artsy hipster band.
One on one they're cool. Get them together in a room and it's always a contest of who has the most lacerating bitchy wit.
Op, you mean besides everything? If so, then I can't think of anything.
They definitely try to keep up with the Jones more than any other group.
They try to "fit in" too hard (not too much camping, dear, until our friends come over tonight to watch the Oscars).
The knowing jokes and nudge-nudge comments about "top" and "bottom." Also, please show me a gay who's not a size queen.
Obsequious to any woman who is remotely friendly.
Kissing up to lesbians.
Interesting, R77. Why do you think that happens? The psychology of it fascinates me.
They want to be butch as hell but their apartments or house decor always scream GIRL !
The general cattiness and immaturity disturb me. Last night at the gym, these two gay guys were working out together on a machine next to me. I couldn't tell if they were friends or bfs. They were typically short, effeminate, pear shaped, average looking guys in their late 30s/mid 40s who most likely labor under the illusion that diet and exercise will transform them into Men's Health cover fitness models.
They kept going on and on about what they ate that day, seemingly trying to one-up the other with a better healthy, muscle-building diet and workout routines they read about online. It was just the silliest, most shallow conversation you can imagine between two grown men. I wasn't eavesdropping. They were squealing and I couldn't help overhear as I was resting between sets. They were also wearing the tightest sleeveless tees and shorts imagineable, probably thinking that they are already adonises.
Although many of us spent a lifetime of being bullied and treated as outcasts, many still have no problem imposing pointless bitchery towards other gays who are not between the ages of 18-24, fashion-trendy, slim, beautiful or conform to a party lifestyle. They sneer at gay people who are community-minded or political (beyond gay causes) and who don't live their lives according to how they genitalize (translation: whose cock or pussy they may be waking up next to in the morning) but whose sexual lives are just a PART of who they are.
Once they hit the midlife crisis, they will ditch long term friends over some trick they picked up on grindr or whom they are basically paying for sex. That happens particularly if they've just come out of a long(er) term relationship. Their priorities in life seem to get turned upside down, and not for the better.
[quote]My problem with most of the gay men I know is that they have turned into sheep over the past decade. Everyone has the same short hair, the same shorts, the same flip-flops, the same sunglasses, the same underwear. It's like they don't dare express themselves the way they want - rather the way the majority does.
Yes, the sameness, mimicry, and fitting into a subculture thing is annoying. Not much individualism.
Ugly tattoos of flowers, stars, hearts, clovers, horseshoes and everything else in Lucky Charms cereal.
The idea that being bitchy, nasty and generally bitter is part of what makes us gay, not just a rite of passage, but what we contribute to culture.
The boys in the band had somewhat of an excuse: when you're treated like criminals, have no rights, and are marginalized as sissies, it made sense to "give it back" with a vengeance.
There's a difference between real wit and being creepy.
They condone the gay bashing of anyone who is accused by someone of coming on to them. Get a grip on reality, honies. These accusations are rarely ever true.
I agree with the other posts in here: Conformist, vapid, and thin skinned are the main problems.
More about the emotionally stunted thing. Does this simply mean 'immature' or can it also be something else? What does emotionally stunted encompass?
[quote]The boys in the band had somewhat of an excuse: when you're treated like criminals, have no rights, and are marginalized as sissies, it made sense to "give it back" with a vengeance.
WHY do we take it out on each other? Why aren't these gay men giving it back to breeders? I see us (myself included at times) taking it out on each other instead of the oppressors.
Nothing frsutrates me about gay men. I have founbd nothing but acceptance and kindness among gay men.
But straight men constantly talk about others, bitch about everything non-stop. And, they are obsessed with gay men.
LOL R92. I got it.
Many gay men clearly want to be women. Then they give an unconvincing denial and say it's a slur to say that, but the only male thing they want to keep is their own body parts.
Stop trying to be women.
r91, when one hates himself, he "acts out" that hate on anyone who reminds him of himself, or is "like" him. That's the shorthand reason. Some men don't go after the "enemy" (straight society) because they believe on some deep level that they are correct in their homophobia. It can be subtle or buried deep. But it is there. Many men, I don't think, are aware that they have these self-loathing issues. They simply have NEVER DONE THE WORK. They build the walls, the lifestyle, the trappings of "success" and then live inside that, many for the duration of their lives. And have no real, true, friends. And don't even know that they don't. People talk about them behind their backs and wax about how toxic they are or how they get bad "energy" by being around them. But are polite to their faces. How many of us know some gay men who are "society" types and maybe even have lots of money and position or whatever but we really can't STAND them? And probably MOST people can't. These gay men find OTHER creepy gay men and form their "posse." And are then insulated. Every city seems to have it's "A" gays and they are obnoxious assclowns who people try to avoid. And the ones who think that being "accepted into the A crowd" is a sign of something positive or good or a GOAL...well, the cycle continues.
I think this is why some gay men are not truly happy for each other's successes and will even make a play for someone else's partner or boyfriend. There are no REAL rules except brutal self satisfaction, even though they may talk a good game. NO personal internal moral compass or scruples. No sense of selflessness. When you hate yourself, particularly subconciously, you cannot extend love and goodwill out into the community. Oh, there are little attempts here and there and perhaps a VENEER of it, but scratch the surface of many gay men and you find a wellspring of toxicity.
r94, MANY gay men? You really think that? Wow. What a mysoginistic thing to say.
[quote]One on one they're cool. Get them together in a room and it's always a contest of who has the most lacerating bitchy wit.
In other words, extremely conformist and fear based.
[quote]Most can't handle rock music; if they do it has to be some artsy hipster band.
Yes. And they love the worst pop music imaginable.
Sounds like r94 is the str8 boy r92 is talking about...
You've made some interesting points r95.
So you think there is a direct correlation between nasty personality traits and self loathing? I'm not so sure. The nastiest personalities don't seem vulnerable/introspective/sensitive enough for that kind of self loathing.
[quote]when one hates himself, he "acts out" that hate on anyone who reminds him of himself, or is "like" him. That's the shorthand reason. Some men don't go after the "enemy" (straight society) because they believe on some deep level that they are correct in their homophobia.
I see this most when straight "comedians" like Tracy Morgan for example demeans gay people, and the gay men who don't see the humor in it are told they "have no sense of humor". It's really pathetic and speaks volumes about the point you just made.
I legitimately don't understand the effeminate tendency in so many gay men with regard to wanting to get laid. And NOT those born with the freshly baked cookie face. They can't help it. It's the people who regress towards the mean of gay urban "grrl" affects, including the clothes and attitude and the whole nine yards. All of those things are choices, not predetermined personality traits. And I don't really care. People are free to do what they want, obviously. But EVERY gay person I know finds that affect so unattractive. Tops, bottoms, versatiles, older, younger, in betweeners. I've never, ever met a gay guy who was like "oh yeah, the bitch with the plucked eyebrows, hint of makeup, frosted tips, designer jeans that might be made for women, emaciated body, etc. is smoking hot." I'm sure it's happened, but if so, it's rare. It's always fascinated me, as someone who has lived in Manhattan and Los Angeles, how gay people desire something in others, but don't think they have to possess similar traits. I don't know, just thinking out loud.
Well his name is Tracy, maybe he's hiding something...
R103, what's interesting about that is that most gays admit to finding those traits extremely distasteful as you said, but that doesn't stop the tide of gay men who act that what. The real question is why do so many act this way while also hating it?
that what = that way
The hot guys who are way too smug about their looks, especially the ones who smirk in the bars talking only to the equally hot bartender and maybe an ex-trick.
R105, that was my point, actually. I got a little long winded. You broke it much more succinctly!
They decide their political support based on who approves of whom they are fucking, not whats best for their country. Bunch of clueless losers.
Self-hate thread alert.
Seems to me that a lot of the stereotypes being mentioned in this thread are more typical of white and Asian gay men.
Knee jerk Democrats, and usually beyond naive about how other races feel about them.
The popular hot bartender/bar owner who deigns to acknowledge you
At one point I might have voted Republican, but in the last ten years the GOP has gone out of its way statewide and nationally to show contempt and hate for gays. It is replete with lying closet cases like Ken Mehlman. So the "kneejerk Democrat" instinct makes a lot of sense. Even admirable!
Is Exodus International holding its meetings on Datalounge now?
I intensely dislike the one-way, black-and-white thinking process that defines a few people I know and most certainly a fuckload of DataLoungers. Case in point: all Republicans are somehow deemed "evil" solely on the basis of their failure to support gay marriage. Putting aside the fact that this is both false (plenty of high-profile Republicans support gay marriage) and a slippery slope (even though Obama's on record supporting gay marriage, most Democratic politicians have remained mum on the subject), there's also the fact that even now most politicians who support the matter -- INCLUDING OBAMA -- still cling to the bullshit belief that it's "for the states to decide." That's obviously a gray area to us rational thinkers, but for too many DLers it means zilch because Obama is for gay marriage in principal. The basic "actions speak louder than words" tenet is largely ignored when it comes to matters like this.
Also incredibly irritating is the tendency -- which also follows a black-and-white thinking process -- to try and box in gay men as "top" or "bottom," as if there's any bona fide reason anyone needs to make a choice in the matter. This type of thinking is both heterosexist (e.g. in a relationship there always has to be the "wife/bottom," and a dominant "top") and incredibly narrow & antiquated. And yet, it persists, particularly among older gays.
What high-profile Republicans are pro-gay marriage, pray tell? Other than Dick Cheney, who was happy to play along with a homophobic administration until it was time for his professional-lesbian daughter to get married.
I am not especially hung up on marriage either, but have noticed that the GOP has become far more hospitable to vocal anti-gays like Rick Santorum. Also that GOP figures once marginally sympathetic to gays, such as Romney and Gingrich and even Donald the Dumpkins, are now piling on the anti-gay bandwagon.
Sorry, but if you say I am no good I will revert to "black and white thinking" and you will never, ever get my vote.
[quote]What high-profile Republicans are pro-gay marriage, pray tell?
Laura Bush, Lincoln Chafee, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Christine Whitman, Dan Evans and Meghan McCain, among many others.
[quote]I am not especially hung up on marriage either, but have noticed that the GOP has become far more hospitable to vocal anti-gays like Rick Santorum.
If the GOP was particularly "hospitable" to Rick Santorum, he wouldn't have been ousted as a presidential candidate so early on or thrown out on his ass by the good people of Pennsylvania who became disgusted with his views as their U.S. senator. Also, most of Santorum's support from the get-go has been from religious fundamentalists, for whom homosexuality is only one of many issues on which they take an extremist stance.
I find the whole dressing like a teen when you're 45 kind of creepy. If you're of a certain age, then you shouldn't be wearing skinny jeans, crayola-colored sneakers, or anything with an AE, A&F, or Hollister logo. That's all you see on 8th Ave, and these guys think they look hot and fashionable. I don't mean to be a fashion Nazi, but I think they all look ridiculous. I'm not advocating they all wear dockers and golf shirts, but c'mon, dress in an age-appropriate manner.
R116 our resident versatile troll now wants to equate a preference with elder gays.
You are hysterical man. You will never give up on your fruitless quest to make the world conform to what you think is right in sex.
"Laura Bush, Lincoln Chafee, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Christine Whitman, Dan Evans and Meghan McCain, among many others."
None of whom are actually in office and most of whom are viewed as politically toxic has-beens within the GOP, but no matter.
The 2012 Republican primaries exposed a level of anti-gay bigotry from all candidates that was truly shocking to behold.
Anyway, carry on, back to annoying sneakers and beards.
[quote]Case in point: all Republicans are somehow deemed "evil" solely on the basis of their failure to support gay marriage.
No, not really. We also dislike them for their attempts to block same-sex couples from adopting, from fostering, from being protected against discrimination, from serving in the military, and so on.
And that's not even counting their dreadful economic policies, their dreadful foreign policies, their dreadful energy policies, and the like.
[quote]Putting aside the fact that this is both false (plenty of high-profile Republicans support gay marriage)
Actually, it's not false at all, as your lame attempts to actually come up with a few counter-examples highlighted. The Republicans in power, in both the State and Federal leadership are very nearly unanimous in their attempts to block fundamental civil rights. The reason you were able to come up with any at all is because it's noteworthy when *any* of them come out in support of gay issues.
It's not being "black & white" to note that the Republican Party leadership, Congresscritters, Presidential candidates, pundits, and base are overwhelmingly and near-unanimously opposed to granting me my basic and fundamental rights. That's reality; deal with it.
[quote]They decide their political support based on who approves of whom they are fucking, not whats best for their country.
Fortunately, we don't have to make that choice, as the party that is much more likely to vote for my fundamental civil rights is also far better for the country. Win-win.
Well, it has turned out some of the things that frustrate me about gay men have been shown by some of the posts here.
One time I was gonna show off the classier side of gay life to my Mormon married boss from Idaho so I took him to an Italian restaurant and gay bar in Detroit. It was nice with little lights in the trees, a handsome brick patio, some potted ficus trees, smoked glass, white table cloths, a little background jazz. Everything was going swimmingly, his head was swiveling around like Linda Blair's in "The Exorcist" trying to take it all in, and then they put right next to us two older drunk lovers, chain smoking and swilling cocktails, who proceed to have a bitchy screaming match in falsetto. I had to speak sternly to them to show some dignity but with little effect. They completely ruined my classy Gay Immersion Experience.
[quote]R116 our resident versatile troll now wants to equate a preference with elder gays.
Versatile troll? WTF? It is a basic reality that most gay men are versatile. Your failure to deal with it, and your inability to move beyond ancient dichotomies, are not my problem.
[quote]Well, it has turned out some of the things that frustrate me about gay men have been shown by some of the posts here.
Exactly. R122 appears especially indignant about my comments, and yet directs no scorn at the hundreds of Democratic politicians who fail to give anything but lip service to gay rights. Democrats = good, Republicans = evil, just like a scenario out of a "Star Wars" movie. No shades of gray, no acknowledgement of the fact, for instance, that there would be no gay marriage in New York state had a sizable group of *Republicans* not backed the cause, much to the chagrin of the national GOP. Nope, they're all EVIL EVIL EVIL merely by association!
I hate gay men who are mean to women, especially gay women! The flamersPHAGGOTS
Dear heart, I'm not "indignant;" I'm just pointing out that you're either lying or ignorant, just as you're either ignorant of or lying about what I wrote. I said nothing about Democrats, neither good nor bad. I simply pointed out that Republicans, at both the state and federal level, are fighting to block, or take away, my rights, and that their policies are dreadful. These are factual statements.
Since you can't deal with that fact, or with the fact that your post was stupidly false, you proceeded to attack me. So predictable....
And, for the record, it wasn't a "sizable group of Republicans" in New York, any more than it was a "sizable group of Republicans" in Washington State. It was a pitiful few, notable precisely *because* they broke ranks. And in both states, these Republicans are being primaried, precisely because the Party is rabidly opposed to what they did.
It was the Democratic Party, and Democratic governors, in both states that, deservedly, get the credit for passing same-sex marriage.
And yes, dear, the current Republican Party is rather pathetic. I did not call them "EVIL EVIL EVIL," of course; that's you basically making shit up, just as you did in your first post. What I wrote was the exact truth, something that you appear to have a great deal of trouble handling. Why is that, dear?
[quote]I simply pointed out that Republicans, at both the state and federal level, are fighting to block, or take away, my rights, and that their policies are dreadful. These are factual statements.
Oh, cupcake. I'm not even going to bother to continue until you learn the difference between "fact" and "opinion"...
[quote]It was the Democratic Party, and Democratic governors, in both states that, deservedly, get the credit for passing same-sex marriage.
Actually, Mike Bloomberg deserves a big chunk of the credit, too, as do the many Republican donors on Wall Street who supported it. But that just complicates things a tad, doesn't it?
[quote]Oh, cupcake. I'm not even going to bother to continue until you learn the difference between "fact" and "opinion"...
ROFL.... Dear heart, I do. Alas that you appear to be confused, which is why you continue to try to attack me instead of dealing with reality.
[quote]Actually, Mike Bloomberg deserves a big chunk of the credit, too, as do the many Republican donors on Wall Street who supported it.
No, dear, they don't, which is why you can't back up this bit of silliness any more than you can back up your other silliness on this thread. But hey, don't let a cold dose of reality intrude on your fantasy world. I'm sure it's just warm and cozy there.
[quote]But that just complicates things a tad, doesn't it?
Only if you can't handle reality, dear.
THE left's only platform is fear and hate
ROFL @ R131. Dear heart, can't you at least *try* to troll intelligently?
Add any kind of "dear heart"/"cupcake" repartee to my list, OP.
W&W for R49. I was recently in Chelsea and it was amazing how empty and dour most of the guys looked. A lot of gay men see themselves as clever Queen Bs when they're really nothing more than insecure pessimists.
[quote]ROFL.... Dear heart, I do. Alas that you appear to be confused, which is why you continue to try to attack me instead of dealing with reality.
Oh, good heavens. Allow me to clarify: you stated your OPINION that "Republicans, at both the state and federal level, are fighting to block, or take away, my rights, and that their policies are dreadful." Then you said these OPINIONS were "factual statements."
[quote]No, dear, they don't, which is why you can't back up this bit of silliness any more than you can back up your other silliness on this thread.
Oh, [italic]honey[/italic]. Do you *ever* bother to pick up a newspaper? Allow me to quote from The New York Times:
"Gay Marriage Effort Attracts a Novel Group of Donors
...That lunch was a milestone in the dramatic evolution of a behind-the-scenes fund-raising network whose goal is to legalize same-sex marriage from coast to coast. This emerging group of donors is not quite like any other fund-raising network that has supported gay-related issues over the past 40 years. They come from Hollywood, yes, but also from Wall Street and Washington and the corporate world; there are Republicans as well as Democrats; and perhaps most strikingly, longtime gay organizers said, there has been an influx of contributions from straight donors unlike anything they have seen before.
Mr. Griffin, who this month was named president of the Human Rights Campaign, a national gay advocacy group, recalled being at a September 2010 fund-raiser for the Proposition 8 legal fund at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel in New York, organized by, among others, Wall Street financiers and the former chairman of the Republican National Committee...
The Republican support for the effort largely began after Mr. Olson, a solicitor general under President George W. Bush, lent it his name. It accelerated with the fund-raising role of Ken Mehlman, the former chairman of the Republican National Committee and of Mr. Bush’s re-election campaign, who announced he is gay 18 months ago and has since helped raise close to $3 million by fishing in waters where gay organizers had rarely gone before.
As surprising — and encouraging — to organizers of the movement are the Wall Street names added to their roster. Prominent among them is Paul Singer, a hedge fund manager who is straight and chairman of the conservative Manhattan Institute. He has donated more than $8 million to various same-sex marriage efforts, in states including California, Maine, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York and Oregon, much of it since 2007...
The New York fund-raiser was sponsored by Mr. Singer and Mr. Mehlman, among others, and drew a crowd that included Henry R. Kravis, a private equity investor; Daniel S. Loeb, a hedge fund manager; Lewis M. Eisenberg, a former finance chairman for the Republican National Committee; and Steve Schmidt, who managed the 2008 presidential campaign of Senator John McCain."
Prissy political queens making ever longer posts. Especially the sanctimonious tools who act like teacher of the lesser beings but claiming to promote equality and acceptance.
Please stfu about the two political parties. Wrong thread. Tia.
[quote]Oh, good heavens. Allow me to clarify: you stated your OPINION that "Republicans, at both the state and federal level, are fighting to block, or take away, my rights, and that their policies are dreadful."
Yes, dear those are, in fact, factual statements. Am I going too fast for you? Should I use smaller words? I didn't realize that I was dealing with someone who has such a hard time with reality. You really should get out more, dear.
[quote]Oh, honey. Do you *ever* bother to pick up a newspaper? Allow me to quote from The New York Times:
ROFL.... Conspicuously absent from that is any data to back up the really silly statement that they "deserve a big chunk of the credit." You really are grasping at straws, aren't you, dear?
I'm so sorry that you're struggling with this, dear. I'm afraid that the Republican Party you admire is largely a creation of your own fevered imagination. That's reality, dear; deal with it.
Are those two egomaniacal prissy freaks STILL at it, hammer and tongs?
Don't they get the irony of doing this on this particular thread?
[quote]Yes, dear those are, in fact, factual statements. Am I going too fast for you? Should I use smaller words?
No, but you *might* consider finishing your undergrad degree and taking a course of three in composition and rhetoric while you're there, so you can finally grasp how tiny and myopic your sheltered little mind really is. The assertion that the Republicans' policies are "dreadful" is OPINION. It may be a widely held opinion, and I may agree with it -- I do, and that *is* a fact -- but it is nevertheless our OPINION. Your FEELINGS are not the same thing as irrefutable FACT.
[quote]ROFL.... Conspicuously absent from that is any data to back up the really silly statement that they "deserve a big chunk of the credit."
Again, dumpling: go back to school. Learn how to develop an argument, and how to back up assertions with direct evidence. If you're really good at it, someday you *might* even consider law school, but not until you've done this rudimentary untangling in your head of what constitutes fact vs. opinion, evidence vs. unsupported conclusions, and reality vs. life viewed through rose-colored glasses.
I've done my job here, and I'm finished with arguing my point; you, however, have failed quite miserably.
Dunno about the other guy but I certainly do get it, R142. I'm having fun trolling the poor bastard. I really couldn't help it, though; that post of his at R116 was just *so* stupid that it practically cried out for just such a response. And his followup posts have been just as good as I had hoped they would be.
[quote]No, but you *might* consider finishing your undergrad degree and taking a course of three in composition and rhetoric while you're there, so you can finally grasp how tiny and myopic your sheltered little mind really is.
ROFL.... I love you too, snookums.
[quote]The assertion that the Republicans' policies are "dreadful" is OPINION.
No, dear, it's a fact. The Republican Party and its leaders are anti-gay. And such policies as the Ryan Budget, "Cut, Cap, & Balance," to name two conspicuous economic policies are, in fact, dreadful. Do try to keep up, won't you?
[quote]Again, dumpling: go back to school. Learn how to develop an argument, and how to back up assertions with direct evidence.
ROFL.... Oh, the irony, since you were posting that clip as "evidence" to support your rather silly assertion. Unfortunately for you, it did nothing to support that rather silly assertion, so your rather silly assertion continues to be unsupported. Sucks to be you, doesn't it, dear?
[quote]reality vs. life viewed through rose-colored glasses.
ROFL... And, again, the irony, considering that you are the one who continues to pretend that the Republican Party isn't anti-gay. Oh, well... someday, you might wake up to reality. We aren't holding our breath, though.
[quote]I've done my job here, and I'm finished with arguing my point; you, however, have failed quite miserably.
ROFL.... Whatever you say, snookums. I will simply note that your silly assertions from your original post continue to be false and that you have, again, failed to support any of the silly assertions you made in that post or in any other on this thread.
Now what was that you were saying about "failed quite miserably," dear heart?
I wish gay men looked and acted like straight guys!
Wow, way to HIJACK a thread and make it a pissing match between two guys. ANOTHER reason I am frustrated with gay men. Why is it so fucking important that you PROVE yourself RIGHT? T
his thread is about general frustrations, an INCLUSIVE DISCUSSION. You two queens just pissed on everyone else's posts.
R147, this has nothing to do with gay men and everything to do with online behavior. R116 got caught writing something really stupid and I decided to have fun with him. It's pretty much that simple and it happens all the time online in all kinds of forums.
In any case, this thread never was going to be anything useful, as a quick perusal of the various posts pretty clearly demonstrates, so I had no compunction about "piss[ing] on everyone else's posts." There isn't a single post in this thread, including my own, that is worth reading.
I hate the dumbass hypocrisy.
They will hate on every other minority group including bisexuals, transexuals, lesbians, women, blacks and asians but then throw bitch fits over the tiniest slight.
On that note DL needs to filter for all derogatory language and not just the F word.
[quote]R116 got caught writing something really stupid and I decided to have fun with him.
It wasn't stupid, actually, and you constantly leaping back in to the thread to defend yourself makes me think you're kirker in anon mode.
We place too much importance on image.
We think marriage is more important than other issues affecting the nation; it impacts (too much) who we vote for on election day.
We convince ourselves into believing that certain people (mostly celebrities) are gay and we won't let up until they come out of the closet.
We believe that people with a significant public presence (especially in the media) are obligated to come out of the closet and publicly acknowledge their sexuality regardless of whether they want to or not.
We mistake " it's nobody's business" with "I'm scared to come out".
We allow our friends to use us for our "gay-dar" with no regard as to whether the "target" is struggling to come to terms with his sexuality; it's a game to us.
We act like a community for public events but devolve into junior high silliness when in a club or other places with each other.
We try to find ways to prove straight guys are at least bi-curious to justify our lust for them.
We refuse to acknowledge the fact that some gay people want to be left alone and don't choose to march, protest, or advocate.
I really hate the predictable labeling of anything male and even remotely hot, gay.
Because apparently the legitimacy of our sexuality is dependent on Pitt, Clooney or Depp being gay.
Wake me when you are ready to discuss Steve Buscemis orientation.
[quote]Wake me when you are ready to discuss Steve Buscemis orientation.
You'll be asleep for a very, VERY long time.
you are how you look... and if you don't look attractive to them, you are invisible
[quote]It wasn't stupid, actually
Actually, yes, it was; both of his comments were demonstrably false, not to mention really stupid.
[quote]and you constantly leaping back in to the thread to defend yourself makes me think you're kirker in anon mode.
ROFL... Dear heart, I signed my posts.
r152 NAILS IT
Gay men are very bitchy about other gay men; overly so. While I'm sure there are gay men who have scruples, most gay men are so surface as to be absurd. Why do you think the straight world doesn't want to give them gay marriage or any other rights? It's no secret how shallow they are, and it's no secret because of the way they act.
Excusing their promiscuity by claiming that it is part of gay culture.
But at the same time being instantly offended when the rest of the world believes that promiscuity is part of gay culture.
To R159 . . . unfortunately, the gay community MUST realize, that most straight people think that gay men are in fact promiscuous. How to overcome this perception, I do not know, but that is the way it is. There is so much more respect for gay women, but unfortunately the photos and videos of gay men dancing almost naked have had their effect, whether you like it or not.
R152 and R157 are loathsome, obvious homophobes.
[quote]We place too much importance on image
Obviously R152 has never heard of Bear culture.
[quote]We think marriage is more important than other issues affecting the nation; it impacts (too much) who we vote for on election day.
Most gay people think ENDA is far more important than marriage, but both are important. A datalounge survey, however, showed that a large majority of people thought the economy is the biggest issue of all, which is why this place is so solidly for Obama: because Republicans have proved over and over again that they can't understand, manage, or grow an economy.
[quote]We convince ourselves into believing that certain people (mostly celebrities) are gay and we won't let up until they come out of the closet.
How many people have been hounded to come out that we were wrong about? Almost all the people we said were gay, turned out to be gay in the end.
[quote]We believe that people with a significant public presence (especially in the media) are obligated to come out of the closet and publicly acknowledge their sexuality regardless of whether they want to or not.
They are obligated to themselves to come out, and to us for changing public perception of the numbers and visibility of gay people. That you have a problem with this, indicates that you are a mental and moral inferior.
[quote]We mistake " it's nobody's business" with "I'm scared to come out".
Because it's true. Heterosexuality is assumed of anyone who says "it's nobody's business," so real privacy is not an option in sexuality.
[quote]We allow our friends to use us for our "gay-dar" with no regard as to whether the "target" is struggling to come to terms with his sexuality; it's a game to us.
The more it is used the less negative it becomes and the less "struggle" is involved. There should be no struggle at all and perhaps there wouldn't be if old nannies like you didn't try to stop the speculation. Calling someone gay is not a negative.
[quote]We act like a community for public events but devolve into junior high silliness when in a club or other places with each other.
Gays are no different than any other group in society in this.
[quote]We try to find ways to prove straight guys are at least bi-curious to justify our lust for them.
I don't know about others, but in my life the "bi-curious" have always volunteered the proof to me before later claiming to be straight when they realized they could profit by it.
[quote]We refuse to acknowledge the fact that some gay people want to be left alone and don't choose to march, protest, or advocate.
I don't know what you are saying here. I don't know any gay people who have been forcibly kidnapped to march in a pride parade. I think your resentment is insane, counterfactual, and indicative of an ill-conceived moral system.
The constant groveling for straight male attention and approval makes some gay men seem like demented puppies.
I love how R161 accuses R152 of having an ill-conceived moral system while simultaneously justifying behaviors that are clearly not normal.
Blah blah blah since when does "normal" = "moral"
I would never, EVER, have an open relationship. That's not a real relationship. But, a sneaky way of being a slut.
I hate the so-called Bear community because they think they're the antidote to fashionista gays but they're just as limiting and prejudicial about who's "allowed" into their circles, and obnoxious about their "newfound sense of self."
R161 forgets that almost all famous hot guys have been labeled gay here. We were right about Ricky Martin but how about the other thousands upon thousands we have labelled???? We actually have a very poor accuracy record.
You queens are still hanging onto Ashton Kutcher and Brad Pitt for goodness sake!
I hate fucking delusional gays.
I hate when gays purport to speak on the hotness of a woman. Then you end up with threads like "Katie Holmes is ugly". Yeah?! Ask your dad if he thinks shes ugly and watch him demonstrate how he would fuck her into the ground, then be sure to post back.
Most straight men are NOT interested in you sexually. Seriously - please get over this wishful thinking. Yes he's hot but the fact he admired your Star Trek figurines is not an overt attempt to seduce you into steamy pig sex. Get over it.
50+ age gays lecturing about AIDS and sexual responsibility...after first gleefully reminiscing how wild and carefree they used to be, and the HOT times they had at (insert name of "wild" bar).
Attention gay white males: you are not a hip street smart black girl in her twenties, nor a black tell it like it is diva of a certain age. Try to keep this in mind, and consider emulating someone with testicles.
We are small minority.
Odds are if a guy is married or dating a woman, he is straight. And that "lustful glare" he just gave you wasnt meant for you but rather for your hot sister, who was standing right behind you.
Unless you are on your period or are pregnant theres no excuse for bursting into loud uncontrollable sobs over the anything other than the death of a loved one. No excuse at all. Talking to you failed American Idol contestants!
I hate the gays, who know nothing about politics except perhaps it's spelled with a "p," making smug, "knowing" jokes about Republicans or Republican policies, especially when they know it'll make them look hip and knowing to do so.
R169=Kinsey six passing for straight
169 = hit a nerve
I despise the need that some have to refute the bisexuality of others.
Its like a complete stranger saying he enjoys pussy means that you, personally, have been rejected in some deep and profound way.
Get Over It.
I don't believe in bisexual men. Most are gays who had sex with a woman twice in their entire lifetime (usually while fantasizing about the woman's 14 year iold son), so they assume they can thus proudly wear the badge of: Bi Sexual !
I hate that the gay population is 90% bottom
You mean 99%
Thanks R178 for demonstrating the douche-baggery described in R177. Your assholeyness is truly unrivaled even on this thread.
Isnt it great that the same lines we use to combat homophobes applies equally to biphobes:
1) The science confirms its existence in nature and specifically in men
2) Its none of your business who that guy fucks or what he labels himself.
3) Just because you experience your sexuality in your way doesnt mean that everyone does too.
We really should have a pen of some kind where we can hide imbecile gays who sabotage the movement from within.
(191) I love it when fairies cry !
181: care for some cheese with that whine ?
I get frustrated in LA having to look at dorky, scrawny gay men wearing nerd glasses, skimpy beards and pork pie hats, all self absorbed with their own sensitivity
The "Bear Crowd" - bah ! What a bunch of flabby pansies - wearing lesbian cowgirl clothes in a vain attempt to look masculine versus merely fat. Ever been with a bunch of them when they're not drunk ? It's like being at a table with morose bleached whales about to go into a diabetic coma. They can't even organize a group without falling into bitchy chaos. I felt a newfound sense of respect for gay men's leather groups.
Calling yourself a 'bear' does not exactly reek of masculinity.
R181, you're being awfully defensive about bi men. Believing that bisexuality is rare or nonexistent in men is not "biphobia." It's a reality-based belief: most men who claim they're "bi" are, in fact, gay men too scared to come out of the closet. I say that having known, and been involved with, both actual bisexual men and ones who were clearly labeling themselves "bi" either on the "bi-route" to all-out gayness or as a self loathing-centered defense mechanism stemming from a societal belief (or at least an inferred) one that "gay" is synonymous with "weak," "faggy," "effeminate," or whatever.
Do I think bisexual men exist? Yes. Do I think most men who claim they're "bi" are lying? Yes, and there's ample scientific evidence to back up that belief.
What's with the "bear" hate?
Yogi & bubu
I'm sure the anti-eff-eminate troll is having a field day in this thread.
Bi men = gay
Bi women = straight
R187 Your personal experience does not count for the larger world. The fact is you don't know. You have created a set of beliefs based on a very limited personal experience.
This reeks of ignorance.
Doesn't really frustrate me, but I don't get the straight man worship.
Similarly, I never get the worship for minor hot celebrities, like Joe Manganiello, Kellan Lutz, Matt Bomer, etc. Part of the appeal seems to be how minor they are--whenever they actually hit it big and become famous (like Matthew McConaughey), they become instantly despised. But these men who basically look like porn stars (but are pointedly not porn stars, who are also despised) are somehow deified.
r192, because they are masculine
[quote]I don't get the straight man worship.
It's because of the rich and long history of homophobia. And, AIDS.
No they're not, R195.
The lack of cohesiveness; the failure to agree on a core set of principles for how we treat one another.
There is no group in this world more subject to infighting and division than a gaggle of gay men.
r197, yeah you're right, gay men are the manly dudes! LOL
I read the negative comments and I have yet to experience any of these. Maybe I'm lucky, or maybe I sense a lot of projection from the posters.
[quote]There is no group in this world more subject to infighting and division than a gaggle of gay men.
But we have pulled together magnificently for key gay political issues: the AIDS crisis, the aftermath of the Dan White verdict, the DADT protests, etc.
I don;t think the gay community is more prone to infighting than either the women's community or the black community.
[quote]I read the negative comments and I have yet to experience any of these. Maybe I'm lucky, or maybe I sense a lot of projection from the posters.
And maybe you are not a gay man, Samantha.
Gay men who behave like absolute cunts to other gay men for no reason whatsoever. Sometimes upon introduction to another gay man, the bitchy queen has to immediately make a catty comment. Nasty queens who act like cunts just for the sake of being cunts are at the top of my shit-list. It is so unnecessary and childish, and unfortunately these guys are everywhere.
Wow, back to back @ R57 and R58, we have the "false equivilancy" troll (no, no one was talking about it but you) AND the "matriarchal hegemony" troll. Haha, I didn't realize both were MHB. LOL.
Go away you ugly old queen
That they are are hopelessly stupid (extremely stupid) self-involved drink-the-koolaid loathsome liberals who continue to vote for democrats, and that they absolutely have no idea how to love anybody other than themselves. Gay men are nothing but narcissistic disease spreaders and deserve to die in the most horrible way possible. Is it any wonder why people throughout the ages of time have ALWAYS hated faggots with a vengeance? And wake up dumb dumb libby fags, it's ALWAYS going to be this way no matter how much you cry and whine about it and DEMAND equality like gay marriage! And all this whining you do these days is just digging your graves even deeper. At some point people aren't going to take it anymore and hunt you all down and kill your stupid asses once and for all. I can't WAIT for that day to come!!! All they have to do is look you all up on your perverted disgusting gay social networking websites where you advertise yourselves for sex. Duh. Wake the fuck up and ask God for forgiveness and stop being the evil self-involved low-lifes that you are and throw away your fucking evil smartphones (the Mark of the Beast). It's your only chance for redemption. But NO, it's way more fun getting AIDS and syphilis and being ignorant stubborn know-it-alls!!!! ...and dying in the most horrible and lonely way possible known to mankind! PLEASE AT LEAST DON'T VOTE ANYMORE, PLEASE!!!
R203 (yes, I do realize that I'm a little late here), you're talking about a form of internalized homophobia. It's a horrible thing to encounter, to be sure. But I would caution you not to fall prey to it yourself.
I agree, r203.
And r203 seems unlikely to engage in the sort of behavior he's characterizing as so loathsome, r206. But yes, agreed. Avoid at all costs.
I once worked in an office that was about 90% gay men and it was the worst two years of my life. What a pack of whiny bitches.
Give me an office full of Chinese women any day.
That all the truly masculine and athletic dudes are closeted bisexuals and gays.
205, you're a loathsome idiot and totally full of shit.
I know a few gay guys who are obsessed with talking about sex. I'm no prude, but I don't want to hear about the trick you met on craigslist who begged you to fist him. They try to turn everything into some gay sexual innuendo and it stops being funny after a while. Interestingly, none of them have ever been in a long term relationship, but they all whine about not having a boyfriend.
I also don't get the gays who are obsessed with football, but that's just because I hate it. Good on them for enjoying it, I just don't get the appeal, PERSONALLY.
Would it be fair to say poster 205 is having a bad day?
R205 got lost on his way to the gloryhole.
Gay Republicans are a big blight on our community, but I guess that's true for any Republican minority. I agree with the earlier posters who lament a lack of true intimacy between gays... Yet I also see straight men as lacking intimacy in their friendships.
R205 is correct
You have serious issues R205. I pity you.
I don't. I pity the fag who does realize that being gsy is not a bi ut emulating the opposite sex.
What I hate about gay men is that we spend so much time backstabbing each other instead of using that energy to UNITE and build community. Things have changed in the past 30 years, but when we do evil things to one another it DESTROYS us when we have so very much against us. The gossip and back stabbing behavior can get very ugly and damages us as much as anything the fundies can do because we then cannot unite as a true community.
Hey Steve and Sean, are you reading this thread?
R213, I know what you mean about straight men lacking intimacy in their friendships. My brother and cousin, both straight, always tell me how I am, as their gay brother and cousin, the only guy they really talk to about very personal things. My cousin has a straight brother but they have a superficial relationship. I think it's too bad.
I call bullshit on the claim that bears are keeping people out of their events.
I call bullshit on all the creepy bi people coming here to bitch about gay people. You are all homophobic bigots, every last one of you.
r205 needs to be institutionalized.
Hunting, fishing, guns, mindless republican voting, praising the military and bashing the welfare queens, football, baseball, willful ignorance of the arts.........wait, am I in the wrong thread??
They don't know who Diana Ross is anymore.
I hate the gay ghettos.
They are where the worse of gay culture is. Gay ghettos are filled with insecure gays that were never popular in H.S. so once they reach the gay ghetto, they recreate H.S. except now they're part of the popular crowd they used to hate.
Gays who only do gay things, only go to gay restaurants, gay bars, gay destinations, and then complain about how closed minded everyone else is.
Gays who LOVE fashion. They are attracted to fake things, and don't care how rotten someone is on the inside as long as they look good on the outside. They're all about image and so many seem incapable of honesty. They instead tell you what they think you want to hear.
Gays who are obsessed with straight men and are filled with so much self-loathing that they buy into the gay4pay fantasy with the excuse that straight guys love to do gay porn because it's sooo much money.
Gays who think closet cases are more masculine than those who are out. How masculine is it to be a coward who is a afraid of what everyone else thinks?
I get frustrated when gay men say they would be straight if there was a "magic wand" or "why would anyone choose to be gay?"...I like being gay, and I wouldn't choose to be straight. Sure, life would have been easier, MAYBE, but it'd have probably been a lot more boring!
The fear or reluctance to hang with straight dudes as bros. Some of my gay friends refuse to hang out with me when I am hanging with my straight male friends. They seem intimidated by bring around straight guys in usual settings like sports bars, games, pool rooms. These same gay guys have nerve to say I don't hang out with them. No, you reject my friends.
I don't spend 1 second thinking about what frustrates me about gay men, or people in general. I understand that human beings are, well, human. I get frustrated by individuals for specific reasons (often times I am wrong), but I avoid lumping minorities together (and I could probably indulge myself with born again X'tian types) to criticize them. It's tends to be harmful, the parent of bigotry.
Most of them assume I am a top. They open their legs with a smile and my night is ruined.
[quote]Gays who LOVE fashion. They are attracted to fake things, and don't care how rotten someone is on the inside as long as they look good on the outside. They're all about image and so many seem incapable of honesty. They instead tell you what they think you want to hear.
Well, they tell IMPORTANT people what they want to hear.
I'll add expressing extreme misogyny one second, and likening themselves to women the next.
R226 is an excellent self-parody.
Their dicks aren't big enough
A friend of mine is always flirting/hitting on my straight friends. They are very gay-friendly - they are close friends of mine - but my friend makes them feel uncomfortable.
If a straight man were to speak to a woman the way my friend speaks to my friends, he would (or should) get his face slapped or, even better, get his 'nads kneed.
They smile and try not to show their discomfort but they have told me that it bothers them. And, it's not the sexual inuendo that bothers them, it's the fact that they don't want to come off as homophobic if they tell him he is out of line.
And, he is out of line. What he says and how he acts is obvious and crass. And it doesn't stop. He says the guys are receptive to his flirtations but they just don't want to offend him. And they are right because he does think that they must be homophobic if they don't enjoy it. But they would feel uncomfortable if a woman was that flirty and rude. They are not put off because he's gay, it is because he can be obnoxious.
He doesn't flirt with my gay friends, by the way.
[R233], your post is eerily similar to a situation I have with a friend of mine. He hits on straight men to the point that people have started calling him out on it, and he's now pissed off at everyone. I had to stop going out with him--his BF would be at home and he'd be hitting on every straight guy. And like your friend, he never hits on gay men.
Why can't some gay dudes just act like dudes? So what, you like other guys? Just chill and be a normal dude. It should not make you act differently than most guys, impact your taste in music, clothes, entertainment.
R235 exactly how I feel. Men should act likr men, one of the reasons I'm gay is because I love masculinity. I can barely tolerate femininity in women let alone men.
I also hate how gay men always act like a victim, which is a feminine trait, you're a man for God's sake, grab your balls, belch and fart and stand up for yourself.
I also hate how gay dudes are obsessed with fashion, you're a dude you shouldn't have any "fashion sense", if the clothes smell tolerable wear it.
I could go on and on
That's rarely true R233 and R234. In fact, straight guys get all hysterical about gay guys hitting on them when they've done almost nothing compared to the daily harrassment women get from straight men who aren't even aware they are doing it.
I also hate how gay men have to be addressed by their full first name. What the fuck? Your not Mikey instead it's Michael or Christopher, Jonathan et al.
I hate the straight guy worship. Most every gay dude wants a masculine guy, well why don't you become that masculine dream guy instead of creepy out a straight guy who's just being friendly to you.
I said it before and I'll say it again, STRAIGHT GUYS LOVE PUSSY
Hell they'll kill for it.
I hate it that most gay men of my generation (I'm in my fifties) have still not grown up. They are looking for younger guys, often have jobs that are beneath them, don't pay their bills, etc. Perhaps I just hang out with a bad crowd.
That's a bad crowd, R239. But you could have the opposite too - gay men who are workaholics (and constantly talk about their jobs), status-hungry (see Andy Cohen), and take lavish vacations (bragging endlessly about them). That's the NY set, as told to me by the few sane NY people I know.
very critical and judgemental.
Mine's a New York crowd (R240) but I'm guessing the D list.
They still say "You in danger, gurl".
It frustrates me that most gay men wallow in their depression brought on by being gay. I say, get over it! In the scheme of life, homosexuality is just another tick of the clock. All this drama and sensitivity of self loathing really needs to end. Its not about being gay, it is about accepting who you are. Be happy with who you are, and love it! Furthermore, if you are crying about the way people treat you, remember this: You Don't need to look or act a fool to express yourself!!
As a woman who grew up in San Francisco before going into the arts and advertising, I have known many, many gay men. I am not a man and didn't date any gay men, but my experience has brought me to appreciate gay men, at least the many I have known, as witty, talented, often hilarious, and genuine. I have known committed couples, promiscuous queens, and one of my dearest friends, a handsome, discreet, sweetheart who died too young from AIDS. We went antiquing together, dined with his eldergay friends, gently teased each other (we were production artists, shared a small cube and worked back to back, just inches apart, for years). He was so discreet I knew nothing about his dating life until he became ill.
One flamboyant friend was a very feminine pretty and promiscuous young man who I imagine would be a trial to date. We went to an elegant party in Pacific Heights, the stylish furniture was draped with sophisticated and handsome men, and he looked around the room and said, "I've had her and her and her and her and her....." I doubt he was ever faithful to anyone, if faithfulness is what you are looking for.
Many are confused about their gender. Being gay does not mean being like the opposite sex
So many are ashamed of who they really are and hide in fucking closets. Get over it and come out loud and proud, mother-fuckers. Let's make Harvey Milk proud, bitches!
Stan Out and Proud
The racism, classism, ageism, and body fascism that exist in our community while we simultaneously try to convince the rest of the world that we're somehow more evolved than everyone else.
The constant and incessant worship of straight men, now even in places that are supposed to be about gay people. "Straight allies" on the red carpet at the GLAAD awards, or being given awards by GLSEN. The "straight ally" thing is a new way for a hunky football player or some mildly famous person to get a gay fanbase, make money off of them through "speaking fees" or endorsements or whatever, and be worshipped by gay men, even to the point where they're on covers of gay magazines. It's so twisted and pathological it boggles the mind, and people don't even SEE it. That one bothers me.
The fact that we'd rather sneer at each other and tear each other down than try to build each other up.
Oh, we were ALWAYS out there 53...but we were never cute and sexy enough for you.
Why the lilting voice affectation making statements as if everything is a question? Why not speak the way you grew up w/ your family?
[quote] Why the lilting voice affectation making statements as if everything is a question?
That's not just gay men, R250. That's pretty much every person under the age of 30.
That, and the incessant "like" peppered into sentences.
I prefer the company of straight people as I get older. They're far less judgmental.
NO they aren't R252.
They are at 50, R253.
My immediate reaction is to list a lot of stuff that has already been said - materialistic, shallow, stunted development, petty, backstabbing, status queens, insecure, and on and on.
But, if I really think about it, I know a lot of wonderful gay men. Not without faults, but genuinely decent, grounded people.
And, if I think about all the straight people I really know well - there's the same ratio of decent/grounded to highly negative (in the ways I described above) as with gay men.
Dear you really opened the pandora's box with this loaded question!
What frustrates me about other gay men you ask?
They're SHALLOW, superficial, vain, will lie to your face without blinking an eye, they're always thinking about big dicks, they spend too much time in the bathroom, especially before the mirror, they put on too much foo-foo, they are material-oriented, and most have those annoying little yapping poodle dogs when they should have a big fat gray cat with red eyes instead.
Thanks. That felt good.
shallow and extremely judgmental yet a mess themselves with no room to talk and judge others. the Grindr culture. waste money on anything image related.
can someone please start a thread like this for lesbians?
It's hard to be friends with another gay guy without there being any sexual tension (from one party or the other) and that just being "friends" seems like the hardest thing in the world.
Oh to be seven years old again. A life of innocence with no complications.
Almost all gay men are backstabbing whores.
[quote]It frustrates me that most gay men wallow in their depression brought on by being gay.
Related to this, some have a ready-to-go narrative about their lives and the traumatic/painful things that happened to them because they are gay, which serves as a broad and oft-repeated excuse for any number of things - being an asshole, being shallow, not taking risks, being in the unhappy position that they're in, and on and on.
I will not have business dealings with queens. Too many problems.
Gay men who are faaaaaaar from gay.
I think you all need to listen to the song "Man in the Mirror" by Michael Jackson. A lot.
The lack of solidarity beyond the gay community.
When a corporation announces a non-discrimination policy, the GLBT community praises it to the skies, urges the community to buy their products, and names the CEO to the board of gay rights and AIDS organization.
It makes no difference how the corporation treats all of its workers. If it pays minimum wage, denies benefits, and busts unions, all that is cool. As long as it supports equal treatment for the gay community, that is all it has to do to be held up as a shining light of progressive policies.
Hint -- They are selling a product. They are establishing name recognition. They are getting positive exposure within a target group. They gain market share by appearing to be socially conscious.
It's like the boss who gives a dynamite Christmas party because it is cheaper than giving bonuses, raises, or health care.
Looking at you, Starbucks.
Pretty much everything that is annoying about gay men (at least 90% anyhow) can be found in the old classic film, The Boys in the Band.
That's probably why the Gay Hollywood Mafia has pretty much kept it from ever being shown on cable again.
Too much truth gets painful.
Gold Star gay
All the judgemental gay men who come into this thread and spend all their time being judgmental about other gay men.
I'm so glad that backstabbing and jealousy and all the things people complain about do not happen in the straight world. If you believe what you read here.
The loner know it all type that's always going on and on about how they can't find that one guy to fall in love with but they won't take it upon themselves to seek anyone out they want some guy to magically show up because "they want to be found".
I hate the severe lack of masculinity
A man who's not anorexic looking, with arms and legs like twigs, is "fat." Any guy with a nice strong barrel chest has "moobs."
Any gay man who is the slightest bit manly is "self loathing."
They post endless pictures of nude men, buy copious amounts of pornography and discuss ad nauseam how 9 out of 10 of those nude men have too small a penis. I find the phrase "princess tiny meat" repulsive.
I wish anyone who was going to post a comment about another man's appearance would be required to post a shirtless photo of themselves. I think about 99% of the commenters on here would shut up.
I also think if "the 'E' word" (which I suspect applies to quite a few men here) is banned them "self loathing" should be also be banned. I'm not saying I'm butch, but I am a normal acting guy and believe m when I say the only way I would be self-loathing is if I was "the 'E' word."
I am gay. My neighbor is gay also. I may be 6. Or 7 years older than him. That bitch wont even say good morning back when She sashays into her car in the mornings. Whore.
That I can't just be friends with many of them...they often want sex or a relationship and then when I can't reciprocate they tell me they don't want to be just friends.
The barebackers that cream pie me.
Their obsession with awards shows, especially the fucking Oscars.
act racist as fuck and then say they can get away with it because they too are marginalized in society.
It is very difficult to have gay male friends if you are a gay male, nonsexual friends.
The bitchiness, the competitiveness, the constant striving to be part of the in crowd.
My partner and I have been together 28 years and we do not have any gay friends. Very sad, I know. We would love to have other gay couples as friends, but always issues arise. Yet we have 5 straight couples we are very good friends with and socialize with often, and a couple of female friends. We are successful, well off and well travelled, we do not brag and are not social climbers, and we both do some volunteer work in separate venues. Not into kink or so called gay vacay spots.
Maybe we are weird, but I don't think so.
Where do you meet nondrug nonpsycho gay guys for friendship? Gay men's chorus here seems kind of into the stuff we complain about in this thread.
R281...I could write the same exact thing but as a lesbian couple. My partner and I are in the same situation.
The hot ones won't let me suck their dicks.
The bitches in this thread stereotype gays as much as the fundies do. I've met gays and lesbians of all types - nice, nasty, smart, stupid - even within the gay ghetto bar scene. What annoys me about stupid people is their inability to think about others beyond tired and insulting cliches. If these posts really do reflect your experience with gay men, then you all need to broaden your horizons a little.
Poor music taste. Unadventurous with exploring other types of music or other artists than the typical pop divas or Broadway standards.
Of course every one of my gay brothers believes they have impeccable taste in music,
If you're not attractive enough, they won't even deign to look at you, let alone talk to you, at a party.
R260 ... two gay guys who are not attracted to each other can be friends.
About 1/3 of DL guys seem really nice. The rest, shrieking about fat and dick size, are depressing.
I read this thread from beginning to end and I can say authoritatively now that most of you are lying and have never met a single gay man with the characteristics you bitched about. You get all of this from what homophobic straight people say about us, and none of it is true.
They can be extremely mean, touchy abusive and unfair. It is difficult for them to admit that they have been major asses. They mistake shallow repartees for intelligence, and they bear grudges.
I'm reading over these complaints here and frankly, what is being described are just your run of the mill assholes. That they are gay is irrelevant. Now, while I don't doubt some of what has been described exists, I honestly have had few interactions with gay men like the ones I'm reading here. Why? Because I can easily spot an asshole and avoid them.
Now if the list was what about gay men on DL frustrates me, I can list two:
1 - Calling another gay person self loathing for the silliest of reasons. I actually was told I was self loathing because I only saw the Sound of Music once, when I was a child.
2 - Referring to gay men as "she" or "her". I find it confusing when reading mostly because this is the only place I really encounter that. Yes, Ive heard gay men in the past use those terms, but they tend to be much, much MUCH older men.
Sometimes you just want friends. But many gay men are not mature enough to have "just friends" and somehow imagine you, or they, are looking for more.
I find this tiring and tiresome. i want a bud, a friend. Someone with interests and experiences similar to me with whom I can relate. I don't want sex you with. No bj's no hj's. Just friendship.
Maybe this is why straight males and straight females have a difficult time being "just friends". Every moment is a potential spooge encounter.
I think gay men are missing out on a part of life that is well beyond the 15 minute hook up and clean-off.
I went out with a straight female friend the other night and I was lamenting the fact that I don't have a single gay friend. I'm in my early 30s and have spent my entire adult life in the military. I'm surrounded by straight people, which has made it hard to relate to other gays.
What's worse is, the only gay men who've ever been part of my life are various boyfriends and FBs...so I have a hard being friends with gay men I have no interest in fucking!!!
The raging whore thing is a bit annoying at times.
Annoying bitchy gay men who get all up on their rag about the "community" and its defects. Don't you ever stop menstruating, girls? The community is what you make it, not some Snidely Gay Whiplash.
When I visit my hometown, all the gays I knew (and who stayed there) seem so vapid, so uninteresting. All they can discuss are their possessions, their favorite pop culture thingies (bad singers, bad movies, bad TV) or their vacations. They all seem mildly depressed. Most are heavy drinkers, if not full on alcoholics. They seem like stereotypes. More sad than frustrating but I don't care to be around them and really don't care if I ever see them again.
I get annoyed by being followed bu gay guys at the grocery store. I go in morning to avoid the crowds and seniors and believe or not, I hate shopping. The other day a man shadowed me through the entire produce department.
R296, oh, don't worry. They will stop soon enough, Cinderella.
They've never lived up to the cast of CRUISIN'.
hostile yet horny gym bros
Gay guys that recoil at the slightest feminine characteristics in another gay man.
I hate when they want to borrow my tap shoes.
My favorite: as much as we scream as a 'community' (which doesn't seem to exist anymore) that we don't want to be seen as stereotypes.
...but then we reject guys who aren't stereotypes. and by 'stereotype' i mean a 'type.' You have to be 'labelable' and act the part, or you'll be a disappointment when it comes to dating (like when you look like a 'redneck rough trade guy' but your potential date finds out you have a college degree)... or when it comes, all to often, to making friends. "are you a bear, or...what are you?" (the words may not be articulated, but based on how you dress, a 'type' is assigned and violating it is a cardinal sin.)
My best friend is as femmy as they come, that's the real him, and he's a great and hysterical guy... and also works as a construction worker. I actually heard a guy say "eww" to him when finding that out.
And I'm the one who grew up in a trailer park in a rural setting and worked my way through college... and I get the disappointed looks and comments when they find out I'm no longer a construction worker or a welder (me and my friend met on a job site) because I finished my degree and now run my own business. (and after i proudly tell someone how I worked my way thru school and was the first in my family to go and i get a blank stare and 'you should do bear porn' is kinda insulting)
We're a funny group.
DEAR LORD. I can't stand the following guys the most: the ones who bitch about those of us who recognize all the flaws about gay people! Yall who keep sayin on this thread 'i hate gay people who bitch about the gay community' or 'yall are getting your ideas from homophobes' is preposterous. What yall sound like who are bitchin about us bitching are right wingers who yell 'support the troops' and other bumper sticker memes when we question foreign military action. What's next? Yall gonna tell us "love it or leave it" because that's sure what it sounds like.
i've seen ALL the nastiness listed here and then some, and we can't be a better community without acknowledging that we have MAJOR flaws to fix.
and yall bitching about the bitching: a failed attempt at being 'ironic'.....something hipster small town dudes who move to San Francisco or New York like to do.
our community is dying, the unity is disappearing, and WE WHO ARE COMPLAINING WANT TO FIX THINGS.