Why does Judi Dench get all the older women roles over Jane Fonda?
Jane Fonda is a double Oscar winner. Surely she should be getting all the older women roles.\
Yet it is Judi Dench a mere supporting actress Oscar winner flooded with the scripts.\
Because nobody wants to see a movie with Hanoi Jane in it.
It could be because Fonda is so stiff as an actress and has no sense of humor.
Too much plastic surgery for Jane.
R2 is correct. Can you imagine Jane Fonda as M in the Bond films? So stiff, so lacking in warmth, authority, and humor. %0D\
And American. America isn''t writing roles for older women, at least England comes up with a few.
Dench is one of the best, Fonda is just mediocre.
Despite her charitable boards and all that, Jane is an elitist, humorless, stuck up, and pretentious cunt.\
Loved her in Klute and a few other films though.\
Read her blog. She is a snob and a half.
Because usually when casting a role for a woman over sixty they want a woman who looks over sixty not a woman who looks over sixty trying to look forty. That''s why some actresses start to excel later in life and "movie stars" often have a difficult time transitioning into character parts.
Tyne Daly counting all my dough and brushing my long gray hair
Back off, you Jane haters. There''s no more sublime performance ever recorded on film than Fonda''s Bree Daniels in KLUTE.
Dench''s character in the Brit-com A FINE ROMANCE made passing references to being the same age as Jane Fonda in a way that made you think Dench was comparing herself personally (and self-deprecatingly) to her American counterpart. %0D\
It''s nice to see Time even the score.
Alas, Jane Fonda got too much surgery, or the wrong surgery, and her face has that awful, patented, Bozo-the-Clown-in-the-headlights look. It''s the same face as Mary Tyler Moore''s and Carol Burnett''s and Faye Dunaway''s and Cher''s and almost Michael Jackson''s. Why do they all have exactly the same face? It has ruined her smile, and her Henry-Fonda-eyes. Lee Grant also has one of those straight-across-the-lower-jaw smiles, lips that have been pulled too hard from either side. . . Oh, it''s tragic. I''m sorry women - and some men - are forced to/feel they have to do this.
Fonda stopped making films for a while while she was married to TT. She''s slowly getting back to film work (she starts a new film in August). I agree that her latest surgery was a BIG mistake.
Judi Dench? Damn people, I look at least two decades younger than her!!
Jane, typing this because my jaw no longer moves.
"Back off, you Jane haters. There''s no more sublime performance ever recorded on film than Fonda''s Bree Daniels in KLUTE."%0D\
And how many decades ago was that, sunshine? Jane is not a great actress. She has had some good roles but her acting skills are very narrow. She was perfect for the arch, brittle and insecure Bree and she played it to the hilt. But those roles don''t come along every day.
All those Vietnam vets working behind the scenes in Hollywood work to keep her out.
Judi gets all the roles because Glenda, Vanessa and Maggie are too old. All of those women are far superior, and frankly could have done any of Judi''s roles better. %0D\
Fonda is one of a kind. She''s fascinating to watch on screen, even doing the most mundane things.
It's true that KLUTE was the perfect match of actress and script and moment-in-time. Nobody would make a movie like KLUTE, these days. First off, it's way too interested in women - or rather, in one particular woman, in Jane Fonda and her complexities and self-contradictions. It's really a movie about Fonda's helpless charisma, and about her fascinating awkwardness, about how deeply uncomfortable she is in her body, despite - because of? - the fact that she's so fucking gorgeous. It's about her inability to detach herself from the desiring male gaze, about how she has internalized that gaze, about having an inner life that is entirely made out of the roles she has played. . . It's a wonderful meditation on artificiality and identity and acting. . . And Fonda works the shit out of those monologues with her shrink. Those monologues are just amazing, they are a great late-20th-century work of postmodern art, and they should be in the Whitney Museum, permanently on display.
J'adore Jane, then and now and forever.
Wow, R16. Well said, though. I re-watched KLUTE recently and her performance belongs to the best in the history of cinema. No kidding.
Everyone loves Judi.
If Glenda Jackson had not gone into politics, Judi would be on the dole.
Because Judi is still an actress - she was the best thing in that mess Nine - and Jane is now a cosmetics saleslady forever plugging L''Oreal products - who would take her seriously in a role now - and yes I too loved her in Klute and They Shoot Horses ...%0D\
Judi gets the 70 roles because of some advice she got from dames Wendy Hiller and Peggy Ashcroft a few decades ago.\
They said, "Look kid, if you want to work past the age of 70 like us, you''re going to have to take your teeth out when you blow the director, casting agents, or whomever you have to if you want a part.\
"No one gives a rat''s ass how much talent one has, or the accolades received. \
"So take those plates out and knob down, child, if you want to get ahead and win that role!"\
Judi took their advice to heart -- and the rest is history.\
Go Judi! \
Suck on it Jane! (Or not as the case may be ....)
God, the OP is an idiot.%0D
Jane Fonda should get all the "older women" roles because she's got two Oscars and Judi Dench is "a mere supporting actress Oscar winner" Yes, the OP is a major retard. %0D
And the dumbass at 15 also has the brains of a gnat. "Glenda, Vanessa and Maggie" are sure as hell NOT "far superior" to Dench and "could have done any of Judi's roles better." It's incredibly idiotic to say they could have done any of Dench's roles better; how could anyone know that? They're all excellent actresses, unique in their own ways. %0D
And yeah, Fonda is "one of a kind", alright. You don't see too many actresses as stupid as Hanoi Jane. And her utter dependence on men to tell her what to do is exceptional also. %0D
It's not a case of Dench getting all the good "older woman" roles. Fonda doesn't deign to work much, if at all. Why should she? She's filthy rich. And plastic surgery has made her face unpleasant to look upon. In addition, she has serious health problems; a knee replacement, severe arthritis. So it's not a case of mean old Judi stealing all the roles from poor old Jane. %0D
Everything you need to know about R22 can be summed up by his use of "Hanoi Jane". The only dumbass is you, dearest. %0D\
Judi Dench is a lightweight compared to all those other ladies mentioned. Her best performances can''t be measured to triumps such as "Women in Love" "Prime of Miss Jean Brodie", "Julia" and "Howards End". (To name just a few).%0D\
Even the Academy voters thought Helen fucking Hunt gave a better performance than poor Jules. They gave her a consolation prize for that quickie cameo in "Shakespeare" a year later becaue there was such an uproar from her fans.
Judi spent the prime of her career doing all the great roles in the capital of the English-speaking theater world, you putz. %0D\
The Motion Picture Academy gives awards to actors like Charlton Heston. In Hollywood politics have always trumped quality at Oscar-time.
Jane can''t act. She peaked at Klute and went down fast after that.
I thought all queens said that ''9 to 5'' was a classic?
Fonda hasn't had "serious health issues." She had a knee replaced! Immediately after she did a stint in a Broadway show, 8 performances a week. As far as she has let on, she's in fine health, and she has a bunch of films lined up for the next year, according to her blog.
I wouldn't call her stupid. She strikes me as perfectly smart. I think she has no center. I think she's so aware of being watched that she is willing to morph herself into whatever her viewers want to see. Like a lot of actors! My guess is that it is very easy to knock her off center, or to persuade her that your view of her is the real one. Really good actors often don't have much of a sense of self. Acting is about emptying yourself out and being available to the moment. Actors are impressionable, and you can convince them of almost anything. Which, of course, is their job.
And Fonda has that training with Lee Strasberg that teaches you how to be present emotionally - which is a funny paradox! On the one hand, there you are with no center, no sense of self. On the other hand, your emotional responses are so finely tuned that everything that crosses you mind comes out in the open.
Actors are weird!
Part of Fonda's charm is precisely her gullibility and righteousness and lack of a sense of humor!
She was very touching onstage in 33 VARIATIONS, even though it was a lousy play. And she had a touching scene in GEORGIA RULES. She is supremely able to give the impression of being real, and emotionally available, even despite her being stiff and self-conscious. It's a funny conflict that accounts for her charm. When she gets the right part - like in KLUTE - where she can highlight that contrast of self-conscious/eminently real, she's just mesmerizing.
"Judi gets all the roles because Glenda, Vanessa and Maggie are too old. All of those women are far superior, and frankly could have done any of Judi''s roles better"%0D\
Uh...isn''t Judi the same age as Maggie? And Judi is OLDER than Vanessa.%0D\
"Even the Academy voters thought Helen fucking Hunt gave a better performance than poor Jules"%0D\
Yeah, and they also gave two Best Actress awards to Hilary fucking Swank. So what?
Quite frankly, I don't think Jane Fonda wants to work as much as Judi Dench. I think Dench very much still feels the actor's compulsion to always be working despite the fact that she is now in her mid-seventies and presumably extremely rich. Even among her British peers, she's unique in that respect.
I would also agree with that on top of being extraordinarily talented and versatile as an actress, Dench has allowed herself to age in such a way that makes her much more easy to cast than Fonda. Could you imagine Fonda ever successfully playing a period part with the amount of face work she's had done?
R23, I agree with R24. Dench, who's lack of obvious beauty probably held her movie career back during the sixties and seventies -- she was told as a young actress that "everything was wrong with her face", spent that time becoming the most respected stage actress of her generation. Her Cleopatra in Peter Hall's production at the National, a part played by all the women you cited, is considered our era's definitive interpretation of the most challenging classical role for a woman.
I thought Fonda was fantastic in "Klute" and also very good in "The Morning After", have been less than impressed with her in anything else I''ve seen, she has a forced "earnestness" that can be off putting. She sometimes appears to be trying too hard to act, it''s no wonder her two best roles were as an over the hill actress and a prostitute/wannabe actress. %0D\
Don''t flame me (or flame me) but I find that Fonda and Cruise have a very similar quality in that you can see them working really hard on screen, acting by sheer force of will. Sometimes this works for Cruise too (I thought he was pitch perfect in "Magnolia") but often it can be tiring to watch as if you are acting along with them.
Tyne again eating as much as I want because I get a lot of work being fat/old
Yes! Jane Fonda is absurdly earnest! And she has no comic timing. Anyway, not in comedy. She''s hilarious in KLUTE, checking her watch while she''s fucking a guy. But when she''s required to do a straight-up comic role - anything by Neil Simon, MONSTER-IN-LAW, FUN WITH DICK AND JANE - she''s awful. She can''t relax. She acts her little heart out. I love her to pieces.
None of you can keep up. What''s your problem?
It''s simple OP - Fonda is a shitty actress
Dame Judi is the biggest coke dealer this side of the Poughkeepsie; of course she''s more popular than Jane "I may have a Xanax back at the house" Fonda.
Jane''s only employment will be in self-produced films.
R23 is a moron with a grudge against Judi Dench and a pathetic crush on Jane Fonda. %0D\
As for Fonda being smart...well, going to North Vietnam during the Vietnam War was stupid. And getting photographed giggling and clapping her hands while seated on an anti-aircraft battery was REALLY stupid. And calling POWs "hypocrites and liars"...stupid again. %0D\
Her marrying Ted Turner was also evidence of her lack of brains. Turner is an douchebag extraordinaire, but she was captivated by this "man-child", as she called him. And his unimaginable wealth was an added plus. She later said that after all the years of austerity with Tom Haydn it felt good to be "taken care of." What she meant was that it felt good to be have a disgustingly rich husband who would would give her anything she wanted. The life of a pampered trophy wife definitely agreed with her. She really is a shallow person, despite all her strident activism. %0D\
Who cares what she''s like as a person?\
Sometimes her acting is sublime.\
You misogynists need to stop with your hate.
Jane doesn''t consider herself an older woman
"Alas, Jane Fonda got too much surgery,"\
As if Dench hasn''t? All I could think of while watching Pride and Prejudice was where did she get that face lift in the early 1800s?
Seriously, who cares about Fonda''s private life? She strikes me as kind of wacky, or in any case, easily influenced by powerful men, but she''s not stupid, she''s smart enough in a privileged southern-California rich older woman kind of way, but. . .\
Who fucking cares what she''s like if she''s giving a great performance? Or a lousy one?
Out damn''d spot @R23, out I say!
Dame Judi''s Lady Macbeth kicking your ass
Uh, because she can act! Duh
I''m with R5. Dench is talented and a great actress. Fonda is crazy, uneven, and too political too.
Oh, take the stick out of your butt with the "too political" thing. Are you from Canton, Ohio? Or somewhere fussy and simpering like that?
R42 said it. Judi is far and away the better actress of the two.
Jane Fonda is stiff and awkward, sometimes. Admitted. I think it''s part of her power. I guess I''ve made that clear.
True story, I was born on Jone Fonda''s boat.
Not Jane Fanda''s boat?
It was Jone''s boat. And, then, there I was. True story.
Judi Dench has been successful in theater, tv and movies. It''s her versatility that keeps her working.
DAME JUDI DENCH''S COCAINE NIGHTMARE
Not Joan''s Boat?
I''m Joan Fontaine.
I have Jone Fountain''s hat in a glass case above my faux fire place.
r15, you''re talking rubbish - Judi Dench (b. 1934) is older than two of the three other actresses you mentioned (Glenda Jackson b. 1936; Vanessa Redgrave b. 1937), so she certainly isn''t getting roles because they are ''too old''. And Maggie Smith is the same age. %0D\
Jane Fonda has an attitude. I remember when she was in "On Golden Pond" with Katharine Hepburn she did an interview saying she was surprised that KH took over and dominated the proceedings.\
Did Fonda really think she was in the same league as Kate? Fonda also boasted at the time that she had 2 Oscars. Well Kate had 3, and was just about to win a 4th.
Jone Fanda doesn''t have an attitude. She''s a sweet old lady.
Jone Fanda observed the birth of my kittens and gave us all a B12 shot afterward. True story.
You queens can''t keep up.\
More on Jane!\
Don''t stop now.
Dench and Maggie Smith are good friends but I imagine Smith must be a bit pissed off that Dench suddenly got a film career and Smith was suddenly without one.
Qute the contrary R62. From what I understand they still are good friends but didn''t Smith have chronic back and other health problem which prevented her from working as much as Dench?
As others have posted Dench has definitely had some minor work done which I cannot begrudge - but Fonda, lke Faye Dunaway, Bette Midler and Cher have gotten waaaaay too much surgery.
I think Smith would have been better cast as Lady Catherine in the recent Pride and Prejudice adaptation. \
Other than that, I can''t really see Smith working in any of the parts Dench has played over the last ten years, and vice versa.
I know Smith had been ill in the last few years. I wasn''t aware she''s had health problems since the late ''90s.
When she did LETTUCE AND LOVAGE on Broadway in 1990 she had severe back problems. She won the TONY that year (a most deserved win) but (as I recall) the Best Play nominees performed brief excerpts of their roles onstage, her excerpt was the only one they pre-recorded due to her back issues.
Because Dench can act and Fonda can''t.
I''m sorry, but when I watched Notes on the scandal the though of Blanchett kissing Dench (not that there was a chance of that happening, the way the story was) made me go - Ewwww!!! For some reason I can''t imagine any actor or actress having a sex scene with her. Or even a romantic scene. I don''t know if it''s her teeth or what... but Dench and kissing. No. \
Now, Fonda and Redgrave. They still have some fire in them.
"Yes! Jane Fonda is absurdly earnest! And she has no comic timing. Anyway, not in comedy."%0D\
She was effective in 9 to 5 because she functioned perfectly as the straight woman for Lily and Dolly.
The actress with the worst comedic timing is Julianne Moore. Seriously.
Agreed, R71. She was painfully unfunny on 30 Rock.
Fonda is a very good actress.\
But she was in retirement for much of the last two decades, a period in which Dench was building a resume of prestige, powerful performances on film and working to consistent acclaim on stages in New York and London, as she had been for decades prior to that.\
On top of which, they are very different. I doubt highly that they are often, if ever, considered for the same roles.\
If you know of a specific role Dench got over Fonda, OP, perhaps we could zero in on whether it was the right decision or the wrong one.\
If not, this thread is completely senseless.
Judi has a memoir coming out in the fall. Bet she has some interesting stories to tell.
Maggie Smith has breast cancer, so I suspect she has bigger things to worry about than Judi Dench stealing her parts. She also has 2 Oscars to Dench''s 1, so she''s got nothing to prove there.%0D\
Dench, as great as she is, is mis-cast as often as she is well cast. She was perfectly dreadful as Lady Bracknell in that appalling adaptation of "The Importance of Being Earnest" with Reese Witherspoon and just didn''t work as Lady Catherine de Bourg in "Pride and Prejudice". Eileen Atkins would have been far better in both those roles.
Jone Fanda is seamless.
Dench is a great and versatile actress who may well be in her prime. She is a classic actress. Jane had her spots, but she''s not as talented or as versatile an actress as Dench.
Dench is dull. I''m sorry. I mean, she''s perfectly capable, even gifted, but she''s never breathtaking. I''ve seen her onstage and on film, and I have never had a moment of, you know, "Omigod." She probably is a better actor than Fonda - she doesn''t have any of Fonda''s staginess and awkwardness and stiffness and inability, sometimes, to read a line in a way that doesn''t make it sound like it''s being read - but: I''ve never had the top of my head blown off by Dench. Fonda can ruin your life, once in a while, she can reach in and rip your heart from its hinges. Okay, maybe she''s only done it half a dozen times, in maybe three movies. If that. Nonetheless, she has done it. Dench, for me, never has.
Did not see Dench as Lady Bracknell in the film, but onstage it was really stunning. She played the character as she had never been played before, as youthful and sexy and wildly unpredictable.\
The film was made many many years later, but it is a shame if it did not capture the shock and surprise of Dench''s stage performance.
From what everyone says Fonda was great in Klute--a film that no one under 50 has ever seen.\
Well...I guess that''s something...
You know they do show old movies on television
I tried to book Fonda years ag for an ad campaign. The message came back: " Miss Fonda doesn''t do advertising." Like Misd Fonda will never stoop to\
plastic surgery. She''s still the same stupid bitch she ever was (some one wrote her words in Klute, ya know), except now she''s a half cripple. \
Dench can be great (Cranford was the best thing she''s done in years), but she can also be very ordinary e.g. her performance in the dreadful Kiera Knightly version of Pride And Prejudice was practically phoned in.
I have never heard of a tv airing of Klute. From the sound of it, the subject matter would have kept it off the air in the 70s and 80s. And now, it is a largely forgotten film--so in an age when even All About Eve or the Marx Brothers are rarely seen on television, we are unlikely to see Klute broadcast.
Jane Fonda is very rich and only has to work when she wants to.%0D\
Dench is a hardcore crack whore, and she really needs whatever job they offer her. I mean, I''ve seen her play Judy in Punch & Judy puppet shows in the park just to get another suck on the glass dick, if you know what I mean.
Dude, Fonda was good in KLUTE the way Garland was great at Carnegie Hall, it was an artist in perfect confluence with the part she had to play and the moment in time, and it''s not like, "Oh, it was 40 years ago, who remembers?", it''s like, "That was one of the great performances," and you had to be alive to see Garland onstage, but you do not need to have been alive to see in 1971 in order to see KLUTE every day of your ife, so why don''t you get off your lazy ass and go rent it? Or for god''s sake, the entire thing was on youtube for a long time, and maybe it still is. Be a little resourceful. Nobody who is interested in the history of screen acting over the past hundred years should risk missing KLUTE.
[quote]I tried to book Fonda years ag for an ad campaign. The message came back: " Miss Fonda doesn''t do advertising."\
What was the ad for? C''mon, if you are going to trash her at least tell us what was this all about.
I guess after suffering though so many Fonda "performances" from Tout Va Bien to Fun with Dick and Jane, I am a little suspicious of the claim that she has at one time given in one film a good performance.\
I could get Klute on DVD, but do I want to spend the time and money on another Fonda movie because somehow, in this one, some people say she stumbled into a good performance?\
I still have not seen Intolerance, The Earrings of Madame..., Weekend, No Country for Old Men, Romy and Michelle''s High School Reunion, The Lady Vanishes, and The Marriage of Maria Braun. So is Klute really worth it?
It was an ad for anal bleach cream. "Make your balloon knot as fresh as a daisy!" was the tagline.%0D\
Naturally, Dench wanted the role but it would have required some anal prolapse surgery. Biven all the anal she''s had to dish out for her "smokies" Dench has lass of a balloon knot and more of an empty trash bag, if you know what I mean.
KLUTE also has beautiful photography by Gordon Willis, who later shot all three GODFATHERS and all of Woody Allen's films for a long time, most notably the gorgeously shot MANHATTAN. Willis is famous for being able to shoot in lots of darkness, and the enjoyable creepiness of KLUTE - in addition to being a film about Jane Fonda, it is also a murder mystery - is very much due to Willis's photography. He is one of the guys who helped the "Golden Age" of US movies in the late '60s and early '70s get its distinctive look. KLUTE is one of the landmark films of that period. It also has a great performance by Donald Sutherland, who is one of the characteristic actors of that '70s era - he had just done Altman's M*A*S*H, and he is quite skilled at underplaying things. He gives a great performance.
KLUTE was shot in NYC, the exterior of Fonda's apartment up in Spanish Harlem, the interior of her apt in the Astoria Studios, I believe, and it is, among other things, a document of NYC at the time, as seen through the eyes of these filmmakers. There is, I admit, a kind of campy hilarity to some of the stuff about "edgy, dark, lonely, dangerous New York," and it is one of those films from that era -FORTY-DEUCE, TAKING OFF, MIDNIGHT COWBOY, FRENCH CONNECTION, etc. - that delights in depicting New York as the city of sin and crime and drugs and wild sex and '60s grooviness.
Some of the scenes are a little campy.
It has some enjoyable NYC actors from the time, though, including Shirley Stoler. And there's a fun moment with a couple of lesbians that uses lesbians - typically - as an example of the decadence and corruption of New York.
It's got great creepy music.
Alan Pakula, the director, was also the director for another great film star performance, SOPHIE'S CHOICE. He had once upon a time trained as a therapist, and maybe that explains the scenes in the shrink's office.
By the way, Fonda improvised those shrink-office monologues. Yes she did. That's one of the reasons for their brilliance.
It's a movie that doesn't have the sterling reputation it deserves. I'm not sure why. I think because it is seen by film buffs not as a director's picture, and Pakula's work from the '70s hasn't been valorized in the same way as work by Altman and Coppola and Scorcese and even Milos Forman.
But it's a great film.
Where do you live?
Why can''t you queens keep up?
It''s exhausting how insipid and boring you all are.
I''ve never been a fan of Jane''s politics, but I could watch her on screen all day. She wouldn''t have to do a thing-well, maybe smoke a cigarette. I miss her on screen, but I really think she doesn''t miss being on screen or she would be cast in a lot more films.
"It''s exhausting how insipid and boring you all are"%0D\
You have no right to call others insipid and boring. What have you ever contributed? My guess: nothing.
r 94, you''re right! I''ve contributed nothing. Thanks for knowing that, I feel so seen!
"r 94, you''re right! I''ve contributed nothing. Thanks for knowing that, I feel so seen!"%0D\
Thanks for displaying your total lack of wit. Continue to make a fool out of yourself, please.%0D\
Most of my life in NYC.\
A little bit in Florida.
r 96, why so hostile? Is this the only place in your little world where you feel like you have authority?
Jone Fanda would have been lustrous in She Devil.
Jane Fonda keeps getting cast as wacky moms and grandmas, lately. She''s playing an aging hippie mom in a film she''s currently shooting with Catherine Keener. I''m wary and worried.
R101 is it the "wacky" that bothers you because really moms and grandmas are what she should be playing
Yes, it''s the "wacky" that bugs me.\
But why shouldn''t she be playing a single woman age 70 who falls in love with a hot young dude? Or a hot young girl? Or. . . "age appropriate" doesn''t mean she has to be knitting scarves, you know.
I don''t want to see her simulating sex with anyone. She''s an old lady.
I like her last blog post:
[quote]I have a friend who says she has become a nerd cause she doesn%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t go out or hang anymore with her buds. I told her I understood cause I was part nerd too and I realized that my blog gives the impression that I am always surrounded by excitement and people. But the fact is that I spend much time alone and cherish that. I don%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t write about that cause what%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s to say. %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9CI am alone, thinking, reading, meditating%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%A6%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D Isn%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99t so interesting so my blog gives a false impression of my life. I identify with the bear who hibernates much of the time%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%93in fact, has her cubs alone while she sleeps%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%93but then needs to be social, playful. That%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s me. I am alone a lot. I read a lot. I meditate. I love solitude. It%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s different than loneliness. I am not always surrounded by excitement. That%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s just what I blog about.
Anyway, I wanted to set that straight. I, too, am part nerd.
For the record, all the apostrophes got lost when I copied the post. Just don''t think Fonda is illiterate.
r 104, you''ll be an old lady one day, too. Won''t make you stop wanting to have sex.\
I think Jane should make a film where she falls in love with Don Cheadle.
If I get old, maybe I''ll want to see other old people fucking then, but, you know, probably not.
Oh, chill, dude. Jane is gorgeous. Too bad about all the cosmetic surgery, but: It''d be a good thing for all you uptight body fascist misogynistic queens to think about women over 70 having sexual desires.
I don''t want to think about the sex lives of geriatrics.
One of the most tender love scenes that I''ve seen is in The Night of the Shooting Stars by the Taviani brothers. The couple in the film is in their 60s.
Stop the hate, dude.
More discussion please!
I think a more interesting comparison is between Jane Fonda and Vanessa Redgrave. They''re about the same age, both are from show business families, both vilified for their politics. I don''t have much to say beyond that. I like them both and think they''re both talented. %0D\
I love KLUTE. It''s a fascinating movie and Fonda is sublime.
Jane Fonda and Vanessa Redgrave were in Julia together, which won Van her Oscar.
Also Meryl Streep Film debut
Dench has a great face. Very natural.
Jane would be nowhere without that last name. She's adequate at best. She embarrassed herself in Golden Pond when a geriatric Hepburn blew her off the screen.
Jane Fonda had one surgery too many as near as I can gather.
I loved the work Jane Fonda did in "Klute" as well as "They Shoot Horses Don't They?" She invoked Bette Davis finest work in both of those performances.
Dame Judi is a Quaker and her political beliefs are therefore not that much different from Jane's, they are just far less militant in scope.
Dame Judi has a ton of money which she earned from years of hard work. "As Time Goes By" alone made her a mint. And yet, Dame Judi keeps on working and working,
Even though I can name two spellbinding performances of Jane's from off the top of my head , I honestly cannot do that with Dame Judi at all. Therefore, I think that Jane has the better quality of work even though she obviously does not have the partially Quaker based work ethic of Dame Judi at all.
I love them both, though. I really do. Their respective gifts would meld together wonderfully in a high quality dramatic film.
Because Judi's a warm, likeable and loveable older woman, great in the Bond movies, and many others, whereas Jane's a cold fish desperately trying to remain young.
I LOVE Judi's pixie har cut, sparkling blue eyes & age appropriate face.
She is British and she gets British roles.
The more you see someone (who is competent) the more you expect to see them. Jane Fonda has been out of the circuit for a some time.
Judi Dench, we see every year (with pleasure, I might add).
What's more, R1 said it. She alienated a part of the "clientele".
Judi is a dame.
I like Jane, but face it, she's a looker wannabe from all those surgeries. She no more fits "the old woman" look than ronald macdonald. I don't see where renovated old beauties fit in film making, they certainly are oddities in real life.
Judy on the other hand, has great character in her aged face and she projects a type of beauty that more of us, both young and old, enjoy responding to on film.
Look as you will in your seventies, but I don't get the kind of glamor Jane strives (and succeeds) to present in a 75 year old female. I think it's kind of freaky and unsettling myself. Comedy is about the only type of film left for someone like Fonda.
Also, I don't think Judi Dench has ever aimed at being pretty or sexy in the movies. Therefore, aging doesn't hurt her image.
Cause Jane retired.
R125 she has a new movie out this weekend
Judi Dench is always the same in everything she's ever done. Why this woman gets so much work always astonishes me.
Would you rather make out with Dench of Fonda?
I know who I'd pick.
Because Judi always plays unfuckable characters... those of the Camay and White Shoulders genre.
Jane may be a good actress but she can't do unfuckable.
Like Streisand, Fonda is disliked by a large portion of the population because of her political views. This group will never pay to see a Fonda or Streisand movie. You can't be a woman in Hollywood and be involved in politics.
"I LOVE Judi's pixie har cut, sparkling blue eyes & age appropriate face."
Really? Ugh Just looking at her photo I can nearly smell her breath.
I've always wondered if Judi Denchbwould have this amazing movie career had Glenda Jackson not given up acting for politics. I wonder if she was offered the J.D. Role of QEI in Shaksepear in Love?????
I once attended a fundraiser for the whales back in L.A. during the seventies and who-did-I-meet but Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden. This was at the home of a famous hippie actor, I forget his name, I think he OD'd on LSD or something.
Anyway, this hippie-house was so fucking cluttered with old dusty gewgaws like little Buddhas and old toilets with potted plants in them that I flew out of there before I got a chance to talk with Jane and Tom.
I will say this: she was very good-looking and in contrast to the short, honkin' nosed Hayden. An odd couple.
And he made her suffer too, trying to live a phony hard-hippie life.
Believe me, those toned arms are a result of heavy lifting that Mr. Hayden himself refused to do.
Well obviously I know that r126, but she hasn't worked regularly in film (lead roles or otherwise) since Gringo or whatever. What else was there? the JLo and LiLo movies. Not really worth coming out of retirement for.
So I'm not sure what this old topic is trying to achieve as its based on a redundant premise. Had Jane still been acting all this time it would make sense.
She was smart to quit while she was ahead or else she would be compared unfavourably to Dench. In fact, Dench is really the exception for older actresses and had a late career spike with success in movies.
First, I'll tell you why Dench gets more work than Fonda, all else being equal (which is of course debatable).
Because after making Stanley and Iris in 1990, Fonda, who was a huge fucking movie star, decided to stop making movies for 15 years. During the mid-late 1990s, Dench, who had never been a huge fucking movie star, but rather for decades a much respected stage star also known for television and films but little known in the U.S., started becoming a huge fucking movie star (M in Goldeneye, 1995, Queen Victoria (oscar nominaiton) in Mrs. Brown, 1995, Elizabeth I (oscar) in Shakespeare in Love, 1997, etc., etc., etc.) making a series of movies which were big hits and very right for her, and garnering her six oscar nominations.
Fonda when she did come out of retirement came out with a turkey for the ages, Monster-in-Law, and has yet to make an impact in any other movie (although she has finally found a role worthy of her on HBO's The Newsroom in which she is superb).
Third, I'll tell you that Dench does not get all the older women roles because a great many go to other older women. Women like Helen Mirren, Maggie Smith, Vanessa Redgrave (a close friend and former costar of Fonda, for whom Fonda named her daughter Vanessa), Shirley Maclaine, Ellen Burstyn, Gena Rowlands, Charlotte Rampling, and when she decides she wants to work, the great Julie Christie has no problem getting roles.
R136, you might have a point.
Several points, actually,
[quote]I think Jane should make a film where she falls in love with Don Cheadle.
I think Jane should make a movie where she falls in love with Judi Dench.
What about Patty Duke? She is a better actress than both Jane and Judi.
Judi Dench is a much more accomplished, talented actress than Jane Fonda. That's one reason why. She's also more versatile; she's a character actress. Jane Fonda is much more limited.
Jane Fonda always played off her sexuality in her roles: the slutty Barbarella, the easy Gloria Beatty, the hooker Bree Daniels, the cheating wife who gets eaten out by the paraplegic Vietnam Vet in Coming Home. Fonda has always seen herself as a sexual object; even now she blabs about her fantastic sex life. There aren't too many roles for a woman in her seventies who wants to be presented as a hot, sexual babe.
r104 Gee, they love it when Helen Mirren does it.
R131 - Jane Fonda went to North Vietnam July of 1972. That is when she became Hanoi Jane.
Here are some the movies she made even though you claim "You can't be a woman in Hollywood and be involved in politics." after her visit to Vietnam.
The China Syndrome
Nine to Five
On Golden Pond
Judi is a better actor.
R142, It's a much different political climate today then it was in the 1970s. You could pretty much do or say anything you wanted back then.
Today, in 2013, your whole career can be ruined overnight by saying the wrong thing or supporting the wrong political cause. Just ask the Dixie Chicks.
Love how Jane has the balls to go on public tv & say her sex life is better NOW than when she was in her 20s/30s. Uhh who is she kidding?! At age70+ there's not enugh lube in the world to overcompensate for painful paper-thin sugar walls.
Judi is stupendous, Jane is just an OK actress. That's why!
It's because Judi is asexual on screen. No sexuality. And as we know Hollywood does not want an older woman with a sex life in its movies. It wants wise old crones. So Dench and Streep get the parts and Fonda gets shafted.
Judi Dench is extremely overrated. She gets work 'cause she's British.
I think after Kathryn Hepburn, Jane Fonda is one of our major acting treasures. Get over it. And she looks fucking terrific!
At this point, the only roles Jane Fonda is right for are older women who've obviously had plastic surgery. She can play Nancy Reagan and the owner of the station on Newsroom. And she can be terrific -- especially on Newsroom. But she can't play most 70 year old women.
R161 lol, whatever.
Jane isn't humorless. She was very funny in "Nine to Five" as a dizzy secretary.
4 Oscars later and you still cannot spell her name correctly r162?
why does Daniel day lewis give Jane the stink eye in that youtube interview?
Jane is likable & was gorgeous, but Dench is the actress. Period. I love Dench & while Jane is airy fairy/touchy feely & definitely LOVED being TT's trophy wife, I think that was JF's real role of a lifetime - trophy wife. And she excelled in doing that. Dench has always been her own person & a great actress. Period.
She is way more talented than Fonda. Fonda is also terribly stupid.
Judy Dench is the better actress.
To the youngster who was wondering if he should see KLUTE:
I'm many years under 50, and I've seen KLUTE, and you should too. It's that good. Fonda's brilliant in it.
I also loved her in JULIA (with Vanessa Redgrave, who got an Oscar for her work), THEY SHOOT HORSES, DON'T THEY?, THE CHINA SYNDROME and COMING HOME.
All films from the late 60's and 70's, but all a gazillion times better than most of the mulch being tossed at us today at the multiplexes.
Dench is great too, just a very different kind of actress working in major films during a very different era.
Don't forget Barefoot in the Park
I thought Dench was horrible in the Skyfall role, especially at the end. The woman is supposed to be the head, the HEAD of Britain's premiere spy agency, and Dench is playing her as a frail, bumbling old fool who can't even hold a gun??
Fonda WOULD have been interesting in the role. I could see her kicking Javier Bardem's ass in that chapel, then telling Feines and the rest of those cunts to fuck off when they try to give her a medal. She would then retire with dignity to live with a much younger boy-toy in the South of France.
As actresses go, I guess Jane Fonda peaked early.
Probably because Dench can actually act and is easy to work with.
R175 nailed it, thread closed, thank you.
R173 everything you've described for that role is awful, just truly fucking awful. As you obviously don't understand or appreciate a storyline that doesn't have a simplistic happy-ever-after ending maybe you should stick to the soap threads, you're in way over your head here sweetie.
R173, you need to watch "Notes on a Scandal".
Judi Dench has a film audience. Jane Fonda used to, about 30 years ago. I don't see the need to compare them at all.
Jane Fonda was so tragically unfunny in NINE TO FIVE and even worse, MONSTER-IN-LAW, that it was uncomfortable to watch her. The woman does not have a remotely funny bone in her body - or a sense of humor or a whit of wit for that matter. In all of her "comedies" you can almost see her thinking "this is what funny probably should look like," and it's always a gargantuan effort that fails because it's so obviously forced. She's no Lucille Ball in the slapstick department, fellas.
Regarding Notes on the scandal... It was never going to happen in the film, but the thought of Dench kissing Blanchett made me gag a little.
Sorry kiddos. Jane is far too "surface" and conscientious in her acting to ever be considered one of the greats. She couldn't have done Dench's Role is Notes, much less Skyfall and been remotely believable.
Wasn't Jane's last starring role in "Agnes of God" (1985)? I am okay with AFI giving her their life achievement award next year, but it's all based on her past film work from the 1960's to 1980's.
What about Barefoot in the Park?
Angela Lansbury said she would have crawled over glass for Judi's role in Notes on a Scandal.
I think Stanley & Iris was her last true lead role and that was in 1990, unless you count Monster-in-Law opposite JLo a few years back.
It was Old Gringo
Didn't Jane walk away because it was too painful for her to appear in flop after flop? She was old school in that way - she did not know how to be part of an ensemble or take a supporting role.
R187 Jane walked away because hubby Ted Turner insisted on it.
Either me or the movies Ted said.
15 years later they would divorce.
Maybe a mix of both? She was flopping hard at the box office in her last major film roles.
Didn't she also become a sort-of born-again Christian in recent years? Do I recall that correctly? it supposedly contributed to the end of her marriage to Turner, who is an avowed atheist.
Don't feel sorry for Jane. She's had a wild ride and her life is good these days, she's wealthy with no need to work, is healthy, looks fantastic and her children are settled. She lives with Richard Perry, the record producer, and are very happy together.
Jane lives in sin? That does not sound like a born-again Christian.
I don't remember the details now but her faith sounded (or she described it that way) more like spiritual than real born-again Christian stuff.
Adore Jane but would hire Judi over her for a film. Audiences need to relate to who they see on the big screen, not stare aghast at their stretched out face.
Fonda is most brilliant when playing roles that repress her sexuality. The tragic thing about her career is that she her best roles came early in the women's movement, before she could play a role for which she was best suited: the bisexual.
Ironically, her actual life and loves are much more interesting than many of the sexually-watered down and stock vanilla roles she's been offered.
I think this gap between the reality of life as she was living it, and the roles Hollywood was willing to bankroll, account for her limitations as an actor. She's never been offered a role that has asked her to push boundaries in the way that her life does. She's only be asked to embody the charades that second-wave feminists play, that is, the way that conventional notions of femininity on screen conflict with that generation's rebellion against them. Fonda as an actress is always looking back on Marilyn Monroe rather than forward to Angelina Jolie, and that tension is palpable.
Yet her true home is among the 21st century feminists and their dialogue with the 1920s - Greta Garbo, and the like. The brilliant male auteurs of the 70s were not prepared for that kind of woman, and therefore wrote and directed no roles for her that suited her organic nature, beyond just elevating and idolizing her neuroses very much of the moment. Which is to say, the anxieties of the men of that time, moreso than the woman Fonda was actually becoming.
Very obvious, one has all the talent, the other has a Hollywood name.
Dame Judi is stupendous, I can't remember one movie where she did not blow me away. She is one of the greats!
What a load of garbage at R194. Fonda is needy and constantly changed her identity to cater to a man.
She's a wooden actress. Not in Klute but in many other movies, yes, and now her face is incapable of registering much emotion. Her father was wooden, too, but that was interpreted as gravitas.
I'm more in wonder at how Meryl Streep gets first choice over other just as competent actresses.
Jane's father, Henry Fonda, said she would get a second oscar for "Coming Home" and that she deserved it.
Jane will always be the scapegoat for all the anti-Vietnam war protestors. She may have helped stop the undeclared war that Americans get very sentimental about. She may have saved many lives by doing her part to help end that morally unjust war. Don't people remember our own murdering one other in that war?
Why do americans love war as long as they don't go to the front lines?
I haven't loved Jane in everything, but want to point out, in addition to KLUTE, her work in
WALK ON THE WILD SIDE: it's a camp classic, but the young Jane is funny and tough and incredibly sexy as the amoral Kitty Twist. Worth seeing.
BAREFOOT IN THE PARK: silly, dated, but she has a nice thing going with Redford. A good pairing.
THEY SHOOT HORSES, DON'T THEY? She deserved that Oscar nom. Brutal.
Honorable mention: JULIA, COMING HOME, 9 TO 5, even CALIFORNIA SUITE. And a nice job as Nancy R in THE BUTLER this year.
Jane's always been a bit of a mess. But give Jane the actor her due.
[quote] Fonda is needy and constantly changed her identity to cater to a man.
Which her daughter called her on, when she married Ted
Have you ever watched an interview with Jane. She is dumber than a rock.
Jane Fonda is a TERRIFIC actress: Klute, They Shoot Horses, Julia and yes Golden Pond. Marrying TT kaboshed her career,. Had that not happened she would be neck and neck with the Mighty Meryl about now.
When Fonda took a break it as stated Dench was busy. Dench is fine not brilliant. Helen Mirren trumphs her in the chops department any day. Sorry. As long as Glenda, Vanessa, Maggie were active she had tough competition there
I am calling the chatter about Fonda being some kind of empty vessel for the latest man BS! Just lousy to speak about one part of her life and ignore the whole story - like her mother was a suicide, she read about it in the paper, and her distant father them practically ICED her off the planet. She is also a product of her times, Jane is far more complicated and deep than any of you dime store counselors give her credit for. THIS LIFE informs her acting, the monologues of Klute were no accident.
She was an incredible business woman that showed women how to be stronger and more sure of themselves. AND made hundreds of millions doing it very very well thankyou.
She was Oprah before Oprah came along, always for the greater good.
As for you obsessive stunted Hanoi Stalkers, every single day America was getting it ass handed to it in an illegal guerrilla war fought on the bodies of young American men to line the pockets of Old War Industrialists. Vietnam had NO MORE LEGITIMACY that the BS Iraq debacle. All those boxes and all those dead young men - for nothing but profit. So what about the gun shot, if it had been a guy you would fantasize beating him up then had a fuckin beer. Pure misogynist stuff.
Fonda has chops, a survivors instinct. That you minimize her talent is simply because her beauty was so great. She remains a GREAT actress, even if the parts dont come. Fonda ties the Mighty Meryl easily.
Sorry R203, but Fonda is a standard actress at best. She never goes for it 100%.
"She was Oprah before Oprah came along, always for the greater good."
Do you realize that that's not necessary a compliment?
Jane has an okay face. The makeup dept. could make her look appropriate for most older lady roles. I'm sure she's been offered lots of acting jobs, but for whatever reason she's not interested. She could work nonstop for the next 20 years if she chose.
However I think Jane is more interested in her image than working - her recent flick, "Peace, Love, and Misunderstanding" wasn't very entertaining, but I think it's the way she sees herself: an aging cool hipster ..
I agree Jane could have gone on to more interesting roles but she is vain and went the plastic surgery route. That effectively killed a lot of actresses careers: Meg Ryan, Jessica Lange (until AHS), Michelle Pfeiffer, etc.
 Says you. I disagree and believe that offering of suggestions of good works can make a brighter world. I might ask for Oprah when was YOUR last act of personal philanthropy? How about mentoring a struggling inner city college student?
It is indeed a compliment.
 I believe Fonda gave an interview where she stated that all she is offered is bitchy mother in law schtick. This mother was a step up in an altogether lame film. Agreed there.
Oprah don't do stairs.
One of Jane Fonda's biggest projects is dedicated to preventing teen pregnancy.
This is very admirable work.
How dare you accuse me of never doing social work!
I thought that Jane was dreadful in Golden Pond. I think acting opposite her father brought out all of her worst tendencies
Talent vs Facelift Lady. Who would you choose? I'd choose talent over the facelift/plastic lady.
Because she has an air of intelligence and dignity.
Fonda's nice, but always gives off embarrassing, "dance on the table" older aunt vibes.
The only reason Judi Dench has a film career is because Glenda Jackson retired from acting.
One little tv movie called "The Dollmaker." Watch it and then tell us she can't act.
If I hadn't gone into politics, none of you bitches would've ever had a career.