Black Widow

Theresa Russell and Debra Winger!\ \ And whose idea was it to cast Theresa Russell as a femme fatale? She''s average looking at best.\ \ Debra Winger is giving off a lesbo vibe.

• Quite honestly, I never got Theresa Russell. She was never a good actress. Yet there were critics who adored her and praised her in everything she did. It''s true she had nerve. And she worked in a time (late ''70s-early ''80s) when good parts for women were scarce onscreen (even more than now!)\ \ I remember the first thing I saw her in was THE LAST TYCOON. And I thought her performance was the most amateurish thing I''d ever seen. Yet N.Y. Times critic Vincent Canby singled her out for praise. I was mystified by how she could have even been cast. Then I read sheslept with director Elia Kazan to get the part.\ \ So there''s your answer.

• Good fun. Imagine that being made today?

• Did Theresa Russell retire from acting?

• I loved this movie when it came out and I was a little protodyke. \ \ Love Theresa Russell too, but agree she is neither a great beauty nor a great actress. She is, however, a lot of fun. I think she''s liked because she has crazy eyes that look like the crazy eyes a kitten has right before it pounces on something.

• Sexy rather than beautiful, and - I agree - a so-so actress. Of course, she was married to director Nicolas Roeg.

• Yes, still working. I see her at auditions.

• [quote]And whose idea was it to cast Theresa Russell as a femme fatale? She''s average looking at best.\ \ Says you. I wore out two copies of that VHS tape and was so crazy for her all my friends teased me (and replaced my tapes).\ \ At one time my standards for female and male beauty were Theresa Russell in "Black Widow" and Laurence Olivier in "Wuthering Heights". (I''ve since replaced her, but she held that spot for many years.)\ \ Not attacking you, just saying: it''s all subjective.

• R2, you got your wish. It was remade with Elizabeth Berkley a couple of years ago. I think they changed the name, though.

• Just looked it up r8, they kept the same title, although there''s also an alternate title listed "Dark Beauty." I might''ve seen it on Lifetime, now that I think of it, as "Dark Beauty." It was pretty terrible and Elizabeth is ridiculous as the femme fatale. She keeps trying to insist she''s a major babe despite all evidence to the contrary.

• Both of those actresses pinged for me.

• I thought she was pretty. Plus I loved all her costume/persona changes in that movie.

• "Debra Winger is giving off a lesbo vibe."\ \ Debra Winger always gives off that vibe.

• Russell wasn''t conventionally good-looking but she was "sexy." The same goes for Debra Winger; even when she was young she was "sexy", rather than beautiful. She almost didn''t get hired for "An Officer and a Gentleman" because Taylor Hackford (Winger hated him) didn''t think anyone would think it plausible that anybody would want to fuck her.

• Theresa in 2007 looking like a younger version of Kim Cattrall. Theresa is, by the way, a year younger than Kim.

  http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/B4TG3ZBKdub/Premiere Spider Man 3 2007 Tribeca Film Festival/QAGJ3qd_7DA/Theresa Russell

• Love the kiss between the two women. Tells you who Theresa''s character REALLY wanted. And they both could have lived happily ever after with all that money....

• [quote]I think she''s liked because she has crazy eyes that look like the crazy eyes a kitten has right before it pounces on something.\ \ I love this theory.

• The only "vibe" Winger gives off is that of a mental institution escapee.

• The lesbian tension in this movie was off the hook! I loved this movie when I was younger and there were NO lesbian movies around.

  Run away together, girls!

• "she has crazy eyes that look like the crazy eyes a kitten has right before it pounces on something"%0D\ %0D\ EXACTLY! I liked her in Black Widow - I was actually rooting for her to get away with it. Debra Winger was seriously miscast IMO: her role needed to be played by someone who projected more authority onscreen. Winger looked like she was acting in a high school production. %0D\ %0D

• I liked this movie. I can''t remember who played the male lead, but I seem to recall we got a view of his rump.

• Russell is at the top of my list of terrible actresses who somehow got some respect before everyone realized how terrible she was. That being said, she is kind of perfect in this movie for some reason.

• R19 I disagree. The growth of Winger''s character into a more authoritative and mature adult is part of the story. She shouldn''t have started out that way.

• I thought Theresa Russell was a terrifically sensual actress with a sultry voice. I loved her in "Black Widow." I always wanted to see more of her and thought she was underused.

  Anonymous

• The scene where Theresa Russell freaks out in her car when she realizes someone is onto her is classic.

• I thought this movie was pretty okay (bad acting aside) but the end was just unbelievably clunky. I should remember to post Black Widow in the "Good Movies With Terrible Endings" thread.

• ITA R23

• Theresa Russell was and is gorgeous. She's been in a few films recently, including one of the Spiderman sequels.

• Russell was perfect in the trashy "Wild Things" as Denise Richards' slutty mom. Remember when she did the movie "Whore" in the late 80s? It was so controversial there were 4 versions/edits released and some papers who refused to run the ads censored the title with the words 'If you can't say it, just see it.'

• Theresa & Nicholas Roeg's son Max played a gay teen in a movie called Dream Boy. Anyone seen it?

  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0889595/

• I watched this movie over and over again when I was a desperate baby dyke.

  Middle%20aged%20lez

• Trailer for Dream Boy. Theresa's son is the one with the longer hair:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DcgMyv9-rqtw%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded

• She's a whore, darlin'.

  http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l4nof69dTE1qcot7zo1_500.jpg

• This is one of those movies that I really enjoyed, even though it's clearly not a four-star affair. Kind of like Mortal Thoughts with Demi Moore. I think the male rump belonged to Sami Frey, in the swimming pool scene. Who would have been 50 at the time, but looked a decade younger.

• [quote]Good fun. Imagine that being made today? Out gay man Michael Sucsy, the writer/director of Grey Gardens on HBO, and the recent director of the better-than-everyone-thought-it-would-be The Vow, has been retained to write and direct a new version of this with the gay camp factor amped up. I bet it will be good.

• DO you guys know that Theresa Russell was was for a short time considered to get an Oscar nomination for this role?

• Decent Gene Siskel article.

  http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1987-02-09/features/8701100870_1_theresa-russell-black-widow-roles

• The part where debra winger is watching the slides of theresa russell and realizing she could never have her beauty and allure is great. Seen it many times. The underlying lesbian current is something you hardly saw at all in 80s movies.

• I wonder if Winger and Russell got along. It must suck when you are cast as the less attractive one in a movie.

• R37 - I agree about the subtext.

• WInger was offered Theresa's role, but wanted the FBI chick instead.

• Thank you, R36, for the link. You have to feel for Theresa Russell. She sounds normal and intelligent and has some standards. Siskel implies, or seems to hope, this is her breakthrough role, yet we all know how that ended up. I am intrigued about the other kisses they filmed between her and Debra Winger.

• One of those movies I have to stop and watch whenever I come across it channel surfing.

• I loved her in Whore and Wild Things, and thought she was very funny. However, they were similar roles. I can't say how much range she has, though.

• OMG - was so obsessed with this film as a closeted 15 year old dyke. It perfectly captured all the unspoken tension between two women when sex, power and secrets are all in play. Also, they depended on each other. The Black Widow gave the Agent life. The Agent gave the Black Widow humanity. It was as if neither one really existed before they entered each other's lives. The inner passion and desire that this unspoken dynamic sparked in the two female characters was exactly like many (regular) people's first gay love affair. I just about exploded while watching this film and it still brings me back every time I see it.

• I was an extra in this. But I didn't make the final cut. :(

• Lesbian subtext deconstruction at its finest, R44. Bravo.

  just barely joking

• Damn, haven't seen a good femme fatale movie in ages...does Hollywood still make them?

  E. Barkin

• Here's TR a few years later in Impulse. I am envious of her mane.

  http://www.duboseknows.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/F1_108907.jpg

• The scene in the bank vault where she's poisoning the brandy with a needle really does something for me. Something about the long red fingernails and all the clanking around. I stroke my back and get chills watching that scene. Same with the original La Femme Nikita. The scene where she's called to play a maid in the hotel. They're setting up the tray with juice, coffee etc. Something about the whispering voices and the clanking of the cups and spoons gives me chills. Maybe I'm weird like that

• Trailer

  http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DsDQjTZvVXWU

• Theresa Russell talking about the role.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DXtMLgQMLdbY

• Glad to see TR is still working.

• I've always liked her. She has a spunkiness about her personna. I especially liked her in Black Widow and Track 29, which few people liked at the time. Great, quirky film. I've also never noticed her as a bad actress. I'll watch for it next time I watch one of her films.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D-2mwNtywYQA

• She's been in some clunkers, but Theresa is not a bad actress. For some reason, DL doesn't like her.