- I would recommend "Get Happy"--it kind of explores the darker side of Judy''s life and how she wreaked havoc with pretty much everyone she came in contact with. Don''t bother with the Mickey Deans bio. And I would take Lorna''s book with a grain of salt, though it''s still entertaining.
- Why would you want to read about that creature''s appalling and impoverished life? Steer clear from the story, and just watch her in performance. Same goes for Marilyn. These women are some of the most dangerous in the history of civilization.
- R2 are you Mrs. Patrick Campbell? If so, FUCK OFF.
- I think if you read Lorna''s book, which is very honest and direct along with the Frank book you get a pretty good picture.%0D\
Lorna''s book, is a book about addiction and alcoholism within a family- not just Judy Garland. It holds no punches and makes no claims for being special. It is all the more riveting, and tragic that it includes two of the most celebrated talents of the 20th Century in a family riddled with addition- Judy being one of the singularly most gifted entertainers ever. Lorna never makes her mother into a godess or a demon, but exactly what she was and how it was for her, and her siblings to live and grow up with.%0D\
Frank''s book gets all the biographical stuff right, the triumph and tragedies and the really tragic slide to her eventual death. Despite all her great talent- it is a bracing read because her life is so sad due to her addictions.
- The Shipman book -- which most Judy fans hate -- recommended (link)%0D\
The Frank book is so fucking old and Mark Herron is straight in it. I found Clarke''s "Get Happy" to be homophobic and simple minded.%0D\
Try Johnny Meyer''s two month''s of Judy portrait as her BF in late 1968. Very interesting and sordid.
- The Meyer book:%0D
- Gerold Frank''s book was limited only by the fact that all 5 of Judy''s husbands were still alive at its release. Looking at it again, I can sort of see where things were glossed over a bit, but the strength and empathy of his writing is very special. It''s a great detailed and sad read.
- Two interesting ones you might find in a library or used bookstore are the ones by Mel Torme and Mickey Deans.\
Torme''s is about his time working on the tv show.\
Dean''s is about his time with her. Both are completely self serving, but interesting nonetheless.
- I am just rereading Shipman''s book. The only thing I don''t like about it is that it is a little light on details of some of her movies. I would have liked to have read more about the Buzby Berkeley films.
- [quote]Torme''s is about his time working on the tv show.%0D\
The Velvet Fag rakes Judy over the coals while making himself out to be a creative "victim." Comes across as bitter and vindictive.
- I don''t know the name of it, but there''s a book that lists everyday in Judy''s life and what happened on it (if anything.)
- I've read nearly all of them OP. Here's a quick take on what I can recall:%0D
LITTLE GIRL LOST - avoid%0D
RAINBOW - good, has good pictures%0D
Anne Edwards, Sheridan Morley BEYOND THE RAINBOW - ick and double ick%0D
JUDY (Frank) - yes, a must read, and a good primer. He is a tasteful writer. R8 is right though that everyone was still alive, and that keeps the book from having full disclosure.%0D
Shipman - the first truly salacious one, long on sordid stuff and short on appreciation of her genius or how she worked like a dog most of her life. She reaped great rewards from her stardom--and it cost her a lot of things money can't buy. Read this if you want all the abortions, sex partners and preferences (she'd let gay men sodomize her), drugs (she took dog mange pills from someone's medicine cabinet when they were the only pills in there).%0D
GET HAPPY - tracks down Vincente Minnelli's former lover and thoroughly outs VM; puts a few names to the unnamed people featured in Shipman and Frank (the subjects had since died). The first one to pin the beginning of the pills on her MOM, and not MGM--the studio was just where it got worse. Also has its share of trashy stuff: this is the book where the "Over the Rainbow" with a mouthful of jizz" anecdote is told--of course by a source who gets to remain anonymous!%0D
RAINBOW'S END - well-researched account of Garland's TV work, mainly focusing on the series and events leading up to it. The details are irresistible, though it's very pro-Judy and makes her appear to be Miss Atlas, instead of just the star of a weekly variety show, at times. You get a sense of what a good sport she was as she coped with the grind of a weekly show.%0D
OTHER SIDE OF THE RAINBOW - Torme's book, is interesting though not a complete picture and everyone who worked on the show agrees Mel had a huge ego. He also gets some facts clouded/wrong. %0D
WEEP NO MORE MY LADY and UNDER THE RAINBOW - don't bother%0D
HEARTBREAKER - written with a bit of an agenda, but the only book that really gives us a detailed day-in-the-life of late career Judy.%0D
and speaking of day-in-the-life, I found Schechter's DAY BY DAY CHRONICLE very dull. For the obsessive only, and even they will likely be bored.%0D
To read about Garland's work from a professional perspective (and even if you didn't know all that was going on behind the scenes, she had quite the career), I'd highly recommend JUDY GARLAND: WORLD'S GREATEST ENTERTAINER, by John Fricke, as well as his gorgeous coffee-table book bio of Judy, JUDY GARLAND IN ART AND ANECDOTE--that book tells you what kind of person she was. It's not that he euphemizes her troubles (some say he does, but I don't think so). He just puts them in perspective of her amazing achievements throughout her life, as part of the whole picture--though he concedes it affected the whole picture--and everything's impeccably researched and accurate.%0D
ME AND MY SHADOWS is about Lorna's journey, but you learn a lot about Judy. It's definitely written by someone who has been through a lot of recovery, but her personal point of view is illuminating and it's heartfelt. %0D
Likewise, take MY JUDY GARLAND LIFE on the next little train ride or short plane trip you have, if you care about Judy in more than a passing way, you'll enjoy it. Not a bio at all, but an appreciation and an exploration of why she means so much to so many.%0D
It's been too long since I read YOUNG JUDY. Also, I haven't read the fairly recent Freedland WOMAN BEHIND THE MYTH or whatever. There are also specialty books on WIZARD OF OZ and A STAR IS BORN alone.%0D
Now that all the husbands and nearly all the lovers are dead, I'm surprised there hasn't been a particularly nasty new bio...especially given the demise of Sid Luft.%0D
She's a complex person and a complex performer OP. The best thing you could do is read several of the books and immerse yourself in the panorama of her work: film, TV, recordings are all available now in a way they were not a generation ago. From there, you decide.
- I loved the Shipman book. I tried to read the Frank book, but it seemed too fawning.
- Frank''s bio of Capote was nasty. He spent the whole book trashing him.%0D\
Those who can''t write... pen autobiographies.
- Some of you fail to understand that the Torme and Meyer books are about THEIR experiences with Garland, of course they have an agenda. %0D\
"Gerold Frank''s book was limited only by the fact that all 5 of Judy''s husbands were still alive at its release. Looking at it again, I can sort of see where things were glossed over a bit"%0D\
WTF??? It was limited by the times. Mental illness, homosexuality, even alcoholism were taboo topics. It doesn''t mention Judy''s lesbian affairs nor that she had gay husbands. No mention of the depth of Judy''s mental illness at the end of her life.
- Shipman was a Brit, and his book has the strangest beginning, where he tries to give evidence that Frank Gumm was NOT of Irish ancestry (Judy always described him as "A great big, laughing Irishman and I adored him"), going to great lengths to "prove" that Judy was untainted by Irish blood, being pure WASP through-and-through.
- James Gavin did the same thing in his bio of Lena Horne, he decared Mr. Horne, Lena''s grandfather, WHITE-native american, not black-native american.
- R15 you mean Clarke''s biography (both Frank and Clarke are named Gerald - a lot of people get their books confused).\
R13 Clarke''s book DOES NOT track down any alleged Vincente Minnelli lover. If you want to lean about Minnelli get Mark Griffin''s recent book titled "A Hundred or More Hidden Things:The Life and Films of Vincente Minnelli" Griffin contacted Clarke about Clarke''s claims but Clarke couldn''t produce the contact information for his source and failed to answer any of Griffin''s follow up attempts to contact him. Griffin even interviewed members of Cukor''s circle as well as those on the gay party circuit, including at least one of the post-party take home boys - no one could confirm any kind of gay relationship on Minnelli''s part.
- What r13 said. But I will say that the day by day book on Garland is fascinating, though not meant to be read chronologically, cover to cover. It has no narrative. But if you want to see how hard stars worked at the studios during the classic period in Hollywood, that will show you. Just pic a year, say 1940 or 1942 and the sheer volume of movies, radio shows, recording sessions, rehearsals, and publicity photos she did in a given month will exhaust you.\
But the Gerold Frank book is great, and underrated. Wonderfully written, very detailed about her studio days at MGM, and written with great insight, intuition and psychological understanding. Plus, so many of the people who knew her and worked with her were sources. Virtually all are gone now.
- Nighttime Judy bump - poor thing couldn''t sleep anyway
- I want to hear more about Judy!
- She was an alcoholic drug addict who died long ago. In her youth she was a good singer but she pissed it all away and blamed everyone else for her misspent potential. Deluded fans have built a mythology around her that''s utterly ludicrous and their cult leader feeds his overgrown ego by basking in the glow. He even runs around calling her "Mama"! Push back against him at all and he''ll do everything possible to demean and discredit you.
- Who is their cult leader?
- The Gerald Frank book is excellent, and one of the more responsibly researched biographies. Yes, it''s sordid at times--it''s the biography of a self-loathing fucked up addict. I didn''t feel it was at all homophobic.
- So is the Griffin book on Minnelli the better of the two bios that have recently come out on Vincente? Can''t remember the other bio''s author or title of book for that matter. %0D\
I''d like to buy one of them and at this point would find a book on Judy''s ex far more interesting than a book on Judy herself.
- The best way to learn about Judy Garland is to listen to Judy Garland. Closely. She is without peer. No one, Sinatra, Cole, all the greats- comes close to Judy 1960-1963. Sheer genius. I listen to at least one great song from her series every day. Gives a good feeling!
I know... earrings....
- Yes, R27. The Griffin book is excellent. The Levy book is terribly written and full of inaccuracy and errata. What kind of gay guy is he, that he puts out a book that any queen with a good acquaintance with VM''s work could point out the mistakes?\
Also, the book is barely edited--in more than once instance, it contains the same passage, often word for word, repeated. I said to myself, "didn''t I already read this?" I turned back a few pages and saw that indeed, I had!\
Do you really like her "series" voice R28? She''s effective in the louder things, sure, but I find that her voice has lost some of its head tone and sounds a little dry on the ballads. Also, her phrasing/breathing had been affected by this time, and when in doubt she seems to belt everything. I like her Capitol studio period and pre-series voice the best (say, 1955-Carnegie Hall).
- These two tracks included here serve as so-called highlights of her downward spiral. The track %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9CPlane Crash%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D showcases Garland as deeply entrenched in the throes of narcissism. She declares that her life has been filled with %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Csuccess, failure, fatigue, overweight (sic), thin, tears, laughter and%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%A6 Halloween.%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D She admits she%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Cnever met a cast of actors worth dying with%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D and demands top billing even in her time of dying.
- The track %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9CGet The Hell Out Of My Life%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D displays Judy full of piss and vinegar%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%A6 and apparently barbiturates and alcohol to boot. This entry is crowded with vitriol toward her foes. Lost in tragically hazy resentment, Garland admits she%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s doing it %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9Cpurely for money%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%9D and how she deserves it. This track culminates in poor Judy boiling over, exclaiming her pain in pleasing her audience and how her enemies belong in the La Brea tar pits and should get the hell out of her life.
- r13, I am pretty much astounded at the sheer number of Judy Garland books you have read. And not in a good way, neither.
- I love an overzealous Judy fan!
climbing Nob Hill
- Stop typing, 30/31.%0D\
- If you can''t get an in-depth analysis of Garland bios on DL, where will you get one?%0D\
R13, you''re just fine. R32 is just prissy about other stuff.
- Had Judy lesbian tendencies? What do you think and what do you know?
I'm almost convinced that she did.
Guys you love Judy?
- Rainbow by Christopher Finch is far superior to any of them. Get Happy is close to the bottom of the barrel.
- I read Rainbow when It was published in 1975. I was 14. That's how I came out.
- Guys, please describe Judy in two or three words.
- [quote]this is the book where the "Over the Rainbow" with a mouthful of jizz" anecdote is told
I'll bite: what the anecdote?
- [quote]Who is their cult leader?
Chuck Norris, surprisingly.
- You love Judy R42? PROVE IT!
- Soooooooooooomewhere [GLUG] over the [GLUG} rain- [GLUG] boooooooooooow [GLUG GLUG]
- Judy Pills says: "Judy was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay people were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles and she theirs."
If you really believed that JP, you would change your insulting screen name, which only contributes to the image of Garland as a pill-popping no-talent better off forgotten, not an artist on the level of Sinatra or Picasso or Callas.
YOU and YOUR NAME are part of the problem, JP.
- [quote]You love Judy [R42]? PROVE IT!
What the fuck are you talking about? I just asked for the anecdote.
Hey R45, that was not necessary! Lol.
Behave lad. Pay your tribute to Judy.
- R47 describe Judy in two words and then i'll be ok with you...
- R49: Two words: Glug Glug
- Three words: Darn jug lady
- Judy Garland was our role model from the age of 14 to 29.
Then Zsa Zsa Gabor became our role model.
- Loooool guys i want to hug you all!
You are sweet and...terrible!
- Mrs Patrick, Judy was more talented than Zsa Zsa. You are kidding, of course naughty Patrick, right...?
R49...what a strange comment about Judy. You imply something about her jaw? Is this your way to say ''she was singing all the time in a characteristic way''? Answer me!
- [quote][R47] describe Judy in two words and then i'll be ok with you...
I'm not about to perform little cartwheels on command for anyone, freak. Either relate the anecdote, or don't.
Judy was awesome. You are a bunch of ''cute'' jerks. Period!
- R47, you are not tender at all. I hate you and i punch your face!
- Well, this was easy to find: and I didn't have to utter super-secret passwords so as to prove my true-blue loyalty to Judy's memory to find it, either.
From a review of Gerald Clarke's GET HAPPY:
[quote]“One ugly-minded lover bragged that after [Judy] gave him oral sex, for example, he made her sing ‘Over the Rainbow’ so he could hear those famous words sung through a mouthful of semen.”
- According to "Get Happy," Judy in the 1960s was so far gone on drugs, including heroin, that she blew a "fan" who had her sing Somewhere Over the Rainbow for him after he came in her mouth. So she sang to him, looking up from his lap, with a mouthful of jizz.
At least that's what my mother told me . . .
- Well... if she really did that, that's cool. She wanted to give pleasure to one of her fans. Wasn't she lovely deep inside? Yes she must have been lovely if you come and think about it.
- Hearing that story about Judy singing with cum in her mouth makes me very sad.
Sad that it happened before camera phones and YouTube.
R61, cum in mouth, no big deal. Get over it but never get over dreamy Judy!
- It sounds like a very good vocal exercise. I bet that would really help you learn how to enunciate properly.
- Creamy Judy!
I don't find this story about Judy completely unrealistic, but i doubt that it happened anyway. No man with a right mind would make a woman sing with his cum in her mouth and certainly not a true fan but a perv.
Would a man in his right mind have sex with Judy Garland post-MGM?
- R66, that was mean. LOL.
- I never got past the Torme rip. He was such a self-serving, smug douche in that book that I never could stand hearing him purr his insipid crap after reading it.
Of COURSE Judy was a mess, impossible, weird and inconsistent. But she also was attempting to do something different and worthwhile with the show, as far as her energy could last. And the scenes available from the show - with the duets and interesting renditions of various standards, are fantastic - as entertainment and as a record of show business at the time. She was a generous, kind, self-effacing host, and you could tell people got into being with her in front of the cameras, riffing and singing.
- Looking back at pictures from the 1950s concert-Capitol era, whoever let her paint on her eyebrows like that deserved a vicious slapping.
Well... there are always bad photos even in a star's life. It's natural. They can't all be good.
- DL Thread idea: what singers would you like to hear singing through a mouthful of cum? List the song and the singer.
- No one.
Singing should not intermingle with cuming.
It's of them is a pure form and they don't belong to each other.
- Not even Julie Andrews?
- Stop it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Oh, but for the chance to hear Kate Smith, post-bukkake, bellowing "God Bless America" through a pint of cum!
- The powers that be at CBS were the real shits. The head guy's head would have exploded if the show had been successful.
But if he had been smart he would have not given her the usual format and not given her that awful time slot. She didn't need lame sketches. She needed good guest stars and some time for her own singing.
- She had plenty of good guest stars and time for her own singing.
- Sky Arts in the UK has been showing The Judy Garland Show for a month or two now. The format really was all over the place. I hated how they'd give her sing-speaky interludes to introduce everyone.
Sitting down to talk for a minute or two would have been great rather than having the whole show seem like one big musical sequence. Obviously Judy solo was amazing, but many other moments were awkward and uncomfortable.
- I have read in an Edith Piaf biography that Piaf had a lesbian affair with Judy.
Did you know that?
- Any news for Judy?
- Frances, piss off sassy gal
- In which of her films you got blown away by Judy?
- Judy's co-star JAMES MASON in 'A Star is Born' is one of the best actors ever and as brilliant as Spencer Tracy was.
A STAR IS BORN-1954
JUDY GARLAND AND JAMES MASON HAVE A POW-WOW WITH DIRECTOR GEORGE CUKOR.
- James Mason with two furry friends of his.
- Gerald Clarke's "Get Happy" was lousy and filled with inaccuracies. Apparently he believed everything Judy said, even though she was known for telling a lot of untruths (she loved to tell a good story). He believed everything Judy said about her mother and lays the blame for Judy's lifelong drug addiction squarely on Ethel Gumm (as anyone in recovery knows, the addict is always the one responsible for his or her addiction). He also believed Judy's tales of how Louis B. Mayer lusted after her. With all those beautiful women at MGM, Louis Mayer had the hots for someone he called "my little hunchback?" In Clarke's opinion, if Judy said it then it must be true.
In her later years Judy had a relationship with a gay man named Tom Green. He seemed to genuinely care for her; he helped her out financially and was there for her. Clarke loves sordid details; he claimed that in a restaurant Judy disappeared under the table to suck Green's dick "while he was picking at his appetizer." It's that kind of biography.
Was Judy a good mother to Liza Minnelli?
- "Was Judy a good mother to Liza Minnelli? Anybody knows."
Not really. When she was growing up Liza Minnelli frequently had to take care of Judy, like she was the parent and Judy was the child. She got out as soon as she could and was making a very good living as a performer when she was barely out of her twenties. She tried to distance herself from Judy. This is from David Shipman's bio:
"She did two shows for (Merv) Griffin, on one of which she deputized for him. When asked which guests she wanted to interview on camera, she made a long list, including James Mason and Burt Lancaster and, "of course", Liza. Griffin was astounded by the virulence with which she was turned down by people she considered friends. As for Liza, "she absolutely had to be out of town." The only guests they were able to get were Margaret Hamilton, Van Johnson and the comedienne Moms Mabley."
- Yes, R70. You're so wise. No one is to blame when a trusting star looks bad.
- The insatiable desire Americans have to know ever salacious detail about a celebrity's life just nauseates me. Judy was a great talent who had very rough, rocky periods. Times we don't need to know about. Why would I want horrifying details about someone I admire? I don't want to know too much about Judy's drug use, Vivian Leigh's bipolar disorder, Montgomery Clift's mental illness. It just tarnishes my ability to appreciate their talent, and their talent is what makes me love them.
- What was Montgomery Clift's mental illness?
- R88..um, hon, if you give drugs to a child and get them hooked on those drugs you bear just a teensy weensy bit of responsibility for that. You sound like an Al-Anon enabler.
- R90, thank you for answering my question. What a pity that Judy was so messed up with drugs and couldn't be like a mother to Liza. Anyway, she was her mother and i think she loved her as a mother, she just couldn't be right...
- If you want a solid acount of Garland's life and work, read Christopher Finch's Rainbow. It's smart and dependable, and has great illustrations. The problem with Garland writing is that much of it delves into salacious and idiotic (and, frankly, implausible) tales that are nothing but rumor. Garland was a singer and actress of unique abilities, and she had a sense of humor, something you don't get a lot of in movie stars. Hearing about her cocksucking some guy under a restaurant table is just absurd; people of Garland's background in that era didn't even dream of doing such things. There was also a New Yorker profile of her, something like fifteen years ago. It tries to site her in the history of American show biz.
And the Frank book is good, too. The Clarke is utter junk, like his Capote bok: nothing but gossip, with no interest in the artistic achievements.
- I posted this before on DL about Judy. My mother had a friend who used to work as a costume designer in Hollywood. She said Judy hired her ,but Judy never paid her because Judy was extremely broke all of the time. She said she took the job happily and worked for free for Judy because she said Judy was just so superb and very sweet. She told my mother that if some said to Judy, your ring is beautiful, scarf, etc. Judy would take it off and say, here, take it its yours. Judy wasn't materialistic and things didn't mean anything to her. She said Judy seemed like a good mother from what she witnessed at the time working with Judy. She said Judy would tell her children to behave when they were around anyone, and the children were very nice and well mannered.
- Judy Garland had at period of her life a lesbian affair with Marlene Dietrich?
- * at a
- What about this book, Under the Rainbow: An Intimate Memoir of Judy Garland, Rock Hudson and My Life in Old Hollywood by
John Carlyle? Has anyone read this one?
Also, this book, Palm Trees on the Hudson: A True Story of the Mob, Judy Garland & Interior Decorating by Elliot Tiber
This may be a stupid question, but since Judy worked her ass off through out her life, how did she make time to have many affairs, and go to parties?
BTW, I have herd that Lorna Luft pissed Liza and many others in her famliy because she made out in her book like she did everything for her mother and everyone else wasn't around and they did nothing? Her famliy said that was pure crap because she was just a little kid at the time who couldn't have possibly have done those things by herself and she is lying? Has anyone heard this?
- So anybody knows if Judy and Dietrich had a fling? LOL!
Cheryl Crane, daughter of Lana Turner, in her mother's biography writes:
''Judy and Mother used to go out all the time. Both were absolutely fascinated by Marlene Dietrich. Like two giggling schoolgirls, they'd dress themselves up as sophisticated as possible to go to a gay nightclub on the Sunset Strip where Dietrich would go to see her girlfriend, who was a singer. They were intrigued by the whole scene and thrilled when Dietrich would invite them to join her table.''
- One more photo with Judy and Marlene Dietrich.
It's a bit funny this one. Haha.
- "um, hon, if you give drugs to a child and get them hooked on those drugs you bear just a teensy weensy bit of responsibility for that. You sound like an Al-Anon enabler."
Ethel Gumm didn't give drugs to Judy. When Judy went to work at MGM, she was given drugs by the studio to stay thin and shore up her energy. It was a mistake to do that, but back then nobody knew how dangerous it could be to use speed. Garland's sister Jimmy said "nobody knew it was bad. If my mother had known it was bad, she wouldn't have let Judy take it."
So Judy got hooked, and remained hooked her whole life. But it wasn't Ethel's fault. But it was Judy's fault that she never gave up the drugs. Judy Garland never in her life made a serious attempt to stay off drugs; she'd lay off them for a while and go right back to them again. There were self-help groups for addicts back then, but as it stated in Frank's bio, she never took going to meetings seriously and figured it just wasn't for her.
Before her death Judy Garland made an attempt at an autobiography, making some tapes and coming up with a few pages of writing. You can hear some of the tapes on YouTube; she rants and raves ("you sons of bitches!") and denies being a drug addict/alcoholic! She is obviously not in touch with reality, and on the tapes it's obviously she's drugged or drunk. She claimed in her "autobiography" that poor Ethel had been pouring pills down her throat since she was 10 years old. It was a blatant lie, but that diehard Judy queen Gerald Clarke believed her. For Judy, everything was always somebody else's fault.
- FFS stop saying the same fucking thing about Judy and drugs. I want to know if Judy had a lesbian affair with Dietrich as she had with Edith Piaf.
Ffs, wake up from your drugs people!
- "I want to know if Judy had a lesbian affair with Dietrich as she had with Edith Piaf"
I've read four biographies of Judy Garland. Not one of them mentioned an affair with Edith Piaf, not even Gerald Clarke's sleazefest "Get Happy."
Judy and Dietrich knew each other, but none of those biographies mentioned an affair with her, either.
The ones that had the affair were Dietrich and Piaf! In Maria Riva's biography of her mother she talks of her mother's affair with Piaf (Riva couldn't stand Piaf). Riva also talks about Judy Garland; they knew each other, not well, but were friendly towards each other. Riva is not shy about naming her mother's lovers; she says nothing about her mother and Judy getting it on. I'm sure if that happened she would have mentioned it. So it would appear that Judy never slept with Dietrich. Judy had female lovers, but it looks like Dietrich wasn't one of them.
- WHO WERE JUDY'S FEMALE LOVERS?
- " I'm sure if that happened she would have mentioned it."
It's possible she didn't know about it, ditz.
- I have read in an Edith Piaf biography that she and Judy...well..they were rumors that they were not only friends.
- Elaine Stritch
- Judy was bipolar because she was a repressed lesbian?
- "It's possible she didn't know about it, ditz."
She knew EVERYTHING about her mother's love life, dummy. Dietrich was not exactly discreet. She liked to tell her daughter things that she could have well gone without knowing.
She fucked Jack Kennedy (who didn't?). This is from Riva's book:
As we had rented our house in New York, my husband, when American on business, stayed at my mother's apartment. He was there the day she returned from Washington. She came through the door, saw him, opened her large, black, crocodile handbag, extracted a pair of pink panties, and held them under his nose, saying:
"Smell! It is him! The President of the United States. He...was...wonderful!"
My husband moved to a hotel.
- R111 Maybe Dietrich was more discreet about her lesbian encounters. It's all about psychology after all...
- "She fucked Jack Kennedy (who didn't?)"
- WHOA...LOOOOOOOOOL JUDY!
- Why Judy broke up with Vincente Minnelli?
I have read that Minnelli was very supportive, protective and respectful of Judy and that she needed that kind of a man. What went wrong?
- "Why Judy broke up with Vincente Minnelli? I have read that Minnelli was very supportive, protective and respectful of Judy and that she needed that kind of a man. What went wrong?"
Uh, he was GAY. That was one reason. But even if he wasn't the marriage wouldn't have lasted. Judy was not exactly the easiest person in the world to have a relationship with. Her longest lasting one was with Sid Luft; I think they were married 13 years. But Judy tended to use people up; I don't any man could have stayed with her for the duration.
As for her female lovers...well, she was probably lovers with a woman who worked for MGM (a "studio spy" she was called in one biography) named Betty Asher. But it's never been mentioned in any biography that she had any famous female lovers. I think Judy's dyke experiences were probably few and far between, with women who were not famous names. Supposedly Judy had a lesbian fling with one of her female fans; this was towards the end of her life when she an absolute wreck, penniless and addicted.
- Betty Asher was Bill Asher's sister, the husband of Liz Montgomery and producer of Bewitched.
A lot of bios repeat the claim that after Betty betrayed Judy and got her to dump Tyrone Power over a false story, Betty killed herself. In fact, Betty married and lived in the Valley and died in the mid-1960s after Judy's TV series was cancelled. Her kids are still around and in the business as well.
How do these stories live on?
- How about the opening of The Judy Garland Show in 1963 when Judy kissed Lena Horne on the MOUTH at the end of the song Day In Day Out? It was shot from behind and in shadow, but you can see it.
In the 1940s, both Judy and Lena has gay husbands and both loved the Bennies and the Seconal. Both were oh so close to Kay Thompson. Interesting note: Lena was extrememly close to Vincent Minnelli in 1942, and many think Lena slept with him to try to further her movie career. Hmmmm. Better to go with the one she married, Lennie Hayton, a gay man she didn't have to sleep with and who actually helped propel her singing career in nightclubs.
- I find it amusing that some of you take these bios as gospel. Really, it wasn't until very recently that lesbian/gay celeb relationships could be written about, even for long dead celebrities. If anything, very gay celebs were called "bi." Plus, their same sex lovers are all dead and cannot tell their stories first hand.
I heard James Gavin has much more lesbian stuff on Lena Horne, but because Lena was alive in 2009 (barely, but alive), he needed these women to talk on the record and they didn't/wouldn't. There are some that are still alive, btw. But Jinx Falkenburg? She was an old woman and never would talk about Lena and her self sexually. Maybe the young ones were afraid to talk because Lena was alive.
- Judy had lesbian vibes actually and Vincente Minnelli had gay vibes, but it's a pity that they couldn't work it out. They both ended up polygamous so i don't think that it was only Judy's fault the end of their marriage.
I think that if Minnelli was more supportive and tolerant of Judy, Judy would never divorce him.
Garland needed a mother in the face of each of her husbands because she was very dependent as a person. Her life was fragile, she needed a man to be 100% there for her. Any thoughts about it?
- I never thought Judy had any "lesbian vibes" to her. She probably tried lesbo sex a few times, but she was very much into men and was always looking for the right one. Poor Judy; after she married Mickey Deans she stated publicly that she had finally found the right man, finally found true love. Mickey Deans was gay as a goose! He was her FIFTH husband.
- R121, Judy was bi-polar, so hyper sexuality with men and women was part of her illness. No need to get all insecure that she "didn't like men"; she liked anything sexually, she was mentally ill!
This finding that "right man" shit, was indicative of the times -- all women were trained to think that their life revolved around their husbands, especially being financially supported by them. Now women have far (FAR!) more educational & work opportunities, duh.
Lesbian vibe r121? LOL. Don't you realize that many lesbians don't give off a vibe?
- I enjoyed the Shipman bio; I know a lot of people didn't like it because Garland is depicted as an very unattractive person, if supremely talented. I have a quibble with the book because it doesn't really attempt to explain what caused her to become such a mess--there is a minimum of psychoanalyzing. But it's completely unsentimental.
- Only the mostly crappy Clarke book mentions that Judy was probably ill with manic-depression (bi-polar). No psychoanalyzing required.
- I love how the poster above blames Judy for never kicking the drugs and says it isn't Mama's fault or Metro's fault. Judy was, what, 13 when she began working at Metro? You get a 13 yr old hooked and drugs, keep them that way until they're 30 and then magically expect them to be able to rid themselves of the addiction? Are you crazy? Her whole chemistry had changed by that point. She was dependent on drugs and even doctors said she might be able to cut down on them but that she would NEVER be able to be free of taking drugs completely. Blame Judy if you like, but it's much less her fault than those who decided that a 13 yr old girl was just fine to pump full of seconal, demerol, and God knows what else they decided to give her.
- "Are you crazy? Her whole chemistry had changed by that point. She was dependent on drugs and even doctors said she might be able to cut down on them but that she would NEVER be able to be free of taking drugs completely"
Now THAT is a load of crap. Anybody can recover from drug addiction. In Judy Garland's case she didn't WANT to recover and all that garbage about her "chemistry" being changed is a load of garbage; it has no basic in fact. And no doctor in this informed era would ever say an addict is beyond help and can never fully stay off drugs (doctors in Garland's time must have been ignorant of this). Garland didn't want to stay off drugs; it's as simple as that.
- WHO? Name the "poster" above.
- R126, it's never 'as simple as that'.
You are a bit unfair.
- June Allyson once was interviewed on Judy,and she said years ago you just didn't talk about people having issues in Hollywood with drugs.
- Yes, i have also read in a Lana Turner's biography that back this time people just didn't talk openly about problems such as drugs or other family problems a star might have. It was a taboo so i think Judy didn't get enough advices from other people about her condition. Maybe doctors and her family tried to do something about that but her friends and surroundings were discreet and distant with Judy's drug addiction. As i said it was a taboo.
r126 is totally correct.
- Also, Judy died in 1969 which the 60s was the pinnacle of the drug culture.It was much more accessible and rampant back then.
- I'm going to see Easter Parade tonight.
Is it a good movie? How did you find Judy in it?
- HEY BITCHES you keep on gossiping about Judy's drug addiction but you don't find it interesting to comment on her movies?
- R133, Easter Parade is a super charming film. I love everyone in that movie, Judy, of course, is so super! Ann Miller is great! and Fred Astaire is as always, so magical to watch!
- "Also, Judy died in 1969 which the 60s was the pinnacle of the drug culture.It was much more accessible and rampant back then."
HUH? Judy's "drug culture" was not one of rock stars or hippies at Berkeley (a very small portion of the population, btw). It was one of people pushing 50 and older: The Miltown Generation, as Patty Davis called Nancy Reagan's. This was the small portion of the population that became depended on the MD prescribed batch of pills -- uppers, Benzedrine and Dexedrine, and narcotic sleeping ads like Seconal. This stuff was fairly new in the 1940s, and it was legal. Yes, these drugs were very accessible and there was very little control; you could refill one of these Rxs almost forever.
Judy was mentally ill and she took pills -- ANY pills. People would take all pills out of their medicine cabinets if Judy was visiting because she's confiscate them. What Judy needed was not drug rehab alone -- she needed medication and therapy for bi-polar disorder. Lithium was the drug for manic-depression in the 1960s.
- Judy is in wonderful voice in "Easter Parade," but far too thin.
[quote]Anybody can recover from drug addiction. In Judy Garland's case she didn't WANT to recover and all that garbage about her "chemistry" being changed is a load of garbage; it has no basic in fact
Someone was quoted as saying that she would never face reality, even if it meant doing something as simple as picking up a newspaper.
- What part of mentally ill is lost on you, r137?
- How was Judy in 'The Clock'?
I'm also going to see that, this week. I expect a lot from this movie.
- The Clock - very very very very dated, but fun. Judy is excellent.
Take serious note of the old PENN STATION in NYC where Judy and Robert Walker meet. This grand structure was demolished in 1963. Most people blamed ogre Robert Moses (look him up), but it was because Penn Rail was bankrupt.
- There's got to be more.
- R136, someone like Judy's level of drug addiction might have went beyond pills.Judy went to all of the clubs in the 60s that the young hip crowed were scene in like the Peppermint Club and many others. Those clubs had wall to wall drugs and wherever there were drugs I'm sure Judy was there because these environments made it even more accessible.BTW, She also was a regular at Andy Warhol's Factory which everyone was stoned all the time.
June Allyson said Judy said to her, if I married Tyrone Power, I believe I would have been a lot better off. However, the studios wanted him to be scene with glamorous women not with someone like me.
- R142, Tyrone Power was at least 60% gay, not a long term husband for sure.
Judy didn't go for legal drugs like pot and heroin, regardless of where she supposedly hung out. She was all about vodka and pills. Look it up.
- You always hear about Judy & pills, but who else in Hollywood was hooked?
- R144, I think Tallulah Bankhead , Liz Taylor, and many others.
- R143, I believe you about Tyrone Power ,but don't say that to his children. They'll rip your eye balls out of there sockets!wow!
- 144 - EVERYBODY. Some just used for weight control. A 1946 article in Ebony openly stated that Lena Horne was "constantly taking pills" and drinking coffee. One of the pills was Benzedrine - it was written in the article. This was when Lena was performing live on the road.
- Sparkle, Lena, Sparkle!
- R142, you're nuts. Judy hung out at Jilly's and El Morocco when she was in New York -- the kind of places Sinatra hung out. Her drugs of choice were legal ones -- pills, cigarettes and liquor -- just like Sinatra. Both of them, while drunk no doubt, shunned illegal drugs and the hippie generation that used them.
Judy at Andy Warhol's the Factory??? Absolutely NOT.
Show us a link to a photo or info of her being there. I dare you.
- Guys, does Judy do what i think that she does in here? !!!!
What happened there, does anybody know?
- Photoshopped, dearest.
- Oh...i had some doubts myself, but are you 100% sure about that R151?
- Yes, I'm pretty sure. A star of Judy's generation would never have done something like that in public (see the posts about her and illegal drugs) and the photo is from the EARLY 1960s, not the late 60s when she was half dead and loaded 99% of the time. The size of the hand doesn't match either.
- Judy preferred to use the british "two-finger" version.
- Well, i must confess that your explanation fits dear R151-153. Thank you.
- Okay, I like Shipman's. It tells the nitty nitty gritty, and I like that. Garland fans HATE this book, that's why I love it!
P.S.: ANY Anne Edwards bio is full of shit because she's a hack. There, I said it.
- R140, thanks for your link, i took notice of it.
I liked 'The Clock'. It was a warm, tender movie, i didn't find it very old-dated. Bureaucracy is still a plague and human relationships are still defined by the same feelings:love, devotion, doubts, tenderness, pleasure, desperation, hope.
R135, yes Judy Garland, Fred Astaire and Ann Miller did a marvelous job in 'Easter Parade'.
My favourite songs of this musical are undoubtedly "Shakin' the Blues Away" (Ann Miller was breathtaking in it) and the surprisingly excellent "A Couple of Swells". I actually loved 'A Couple of Swells'!
- Guys, do you think that Judy's best performance was in 'A Star is Born'?
Personally i found her amazing in 'The Clock', in 'Meet Me in St. Lewis' and in 'Easter Parade'.
What's your opinion?
- I am one of those people that thinks Judy was bad in A Star is Born. Her performance was overwrought/overdone and badly in needed of direction.
- Guys do you know anything about this?
In her final year in Hollywood, Grace, nominated for Best Actress for her performance in The Country Girl, was up against Judy Garland for her role in A Star is Born. After the Oscars were awarded, Grace was sharing the post-awards ceremony with Marlon Brando (Best Actor for On the Waterfront) when Brando slipped Grace his phone number. After Grace slipped out of the post-Oscar party at Romanoff’s, Grace hooked up with Brando at her Beverly Hills Hotel Bungalow. During the tryst a drunken Bing Crosby suddenly appears at her door to find Brando and Grace in flagrante delicato. Bing gets thrown out the door on his ass, leaving the naked Grace alone with Brando again. Two hours later the phone rings, and a famously slurred voice screams into the phone, “This is Judy Garland – JUDY FUCKING GARLAND YOU BITCH! – You took what was rightfully mine. Tonight was my last chance for the Oscar. You’ll have many more chances in the future. This was it for me. I’ll NEVER FORGIVE YOU!” And Judy slammed down the phone.
I heard a story that Judy Garland was asked if she thought Grace Kelly was a nymphomaniac, and her response was, "Maybe if they calmed her down."
Guys, is that possibly true? Any comments?
- I love the thought of Bing Crosby getting his ass kicked by Brando (or anybody).
- LOL, r161. Total fiction. Grace Kelly was a very valuable star. Nothing like that would ever get out or be fed to the gossips; she was protected. It reads like a teenager's fantasy.
One thing is true, Grace was what they used to call a nymphomaniac. She was probably molested as a child and acted out as an adult.
- Why you think that Grace Kelly was molested?
Have you got any evidence, please?
By the way, do you know if Judy liked Grace?
- Hmmm....anybody knows?
- R164, women who are nymphos were usually molested. "Servicing men" and getting very little or nothing back is not an attractive proposition for women unless they're mentally ill or have been molested. I also recall reading something about Grace and molestation way back. Someone in her family was suspected, as I recall.
- Never even had a top ten hit. Nor a top 100 hit. This places her lower than her daughter who at least at a #104 hit.
- Darwin Porter in his J. Edgar Hoover book said Judy and Katharine Hepburn had an affair.
Eh... At Carnegie Hall, for one?
- Did Judy like Grace Kelly?
I read somewhere that Judy didn't really like Elizabeth Taylor, although her fabulous daughter Liza befriended Liz. Is that true that Judy didn't approve of Elizabeth? That's bad for Judy, because Elizabeth was really cool.
- Judy made fun of Elizabeth's voice on a Jack Paar show, that's where you got that from.
Since Judy was not in the same category as Elizabeth or Grace, I doubt she "hated" either. They ran in different social circles since Judy was out of the movie studio by the 1950s -- the start of Grace and Eliz's big movie careers. In other words, they weren't competing for the same roles. Judy was sure pissed that Grace won the Oscar over her in 1955, but that wasn't Grace's fault.
- Was Judy ever in love with a woman?
- I suspect that Judy had feelings for Lana Turner and i guess that that kind of feelings they never became known to Lana.
I'm pretty sure that Judy was fascinated by Lana's beauty. Judy later made affairs with other women but i bet she would love to have Lana in her bed. The women that Judy finally got with were just substitutes for the real needs of Miss Garland...she was afraid to be with a really beautiful woman in her bed, although that's probably what she wanted...
Lol, that's what i think!
- "Darwin Porter in his J. Edgar Hoover book said Judy and Katharine Hepburn had an affair"
Darwin Porter will say anything about anybody. His books are hilariously bad and obviously made up. As for Judy and Hepburn they did meet at least once. In Christopher Finch's "Rainbow" he tells of how Hepburn came to Judy's house shortly after Judy was fired from MGM (this was after Judy's throat slashing suicide attempt). Hepburn gave her a pep talk, telling her that now that she'd hit bottom there was no where to go but up.
"Was Judy ever in love with a woman?"
No. She may have had some affairs with women but she only fell madly in love with males.
- R174, Judy's choices in men were pretty awkward for a woman who was falling madly in love with males.
They all had obviously something feminine in them. Duh!
- We will never know of Judy was ever in love with a female. As for the men, I agree with r175. Lana? Ava had Lana. Judy didn't stand a chance!
R174 = another insecure DL male, afraid that his gay icon may reject his maleness. LOL.
- Yes, if a woman could approach sexually Lana, that would be Ava. They were both fire and they knew how to play with fire and laugh at it.
They had similar sensitivities and they were both
sexy as hell.
- Judy gave a solid performance in 'The Clock'.
I wish more people could see that movie.
It's really touching.
- 'The Clock'.
In this movie,Judy Garland, Robert Walker, James Gleason and his wife Lucille Gleason are characters that linger on one's mind longer than others.
One of Vincente Minnelli's treasures.
- "Judy's choices in men were pretty awkward for a woman who was falling madly in love with males. They all had obviously something feminine in them. Duh."
No, they didn't. There was NOTHING "feminine" about Artie Shaw. Or Sid Luft. She was crazy about both of them. As for her gay conquests...well, it's been said that she liked gay men because she associated homosexuality with her father, and was thus drawn to queens. And certainly queens were drawn to her. I won't even get into the reasons for THAT.
- R180, are you aware that Judy was mentally ill?
- R166 There is not really much else to do in LA. Also you are assuming that nymphomania is a valid diagnosis and that women don't enjoy sex with men.
- Men must be trained, r183, especially in those days. Get it up, get it in, get it out, just won't do!
- [quote]the photo is from the EARLY 1960s, not the late 60s when she was half dead and loaded 99% of the time.
I am a Judy fiend. The photo is from 1966, I'd bet my life on it. It's a Ray Aghayan outfit, so it's from 1964 or later, and Judy tried to dry out in mid 1966 and gained a few pounds and looked quite good for the last time in her life.
- [quote]to find Brando and Grace in flagrante delicato.
- I think Judy has many fans, you are all very sweet guys.
Interesting thread, i think i'll keep on coming to take a look at it.
In the photo below, it's Judy with Liza.
For the hardcore fans, excuse me, i know you might have seen that but i just discover this and want to send it. Just like that!
- Judy your daughter Liza is AMAZING.
What a pity you didn't live long enough to see Liza shine. Oh Judy!
- r166= fugly fish
- 190 KISSES!
- Judy with her Liza
- Her divorce from Minnelli
- Judy Garland in 14 minutes
- She was beautiful in some periods of her life
- R193, very well! I'm watching your link now.
- You believe that Judy was horny about Janet Leigh?
- Judy and Janet Leigh...
- Judy and Janet again...
- Judy, Janet among others...
- Mickey Rooney takes a tumble at Judy Garland’s pool party.
- Judy Garland sort of leaning on ex-husband Vincent Minnelli.
- R203 - that was at Liza's wedding to Peter Allen. Judy and Minnelli not friends otherwise.
- Hmmm, ok R204.
I would love to read a biography of Judy by the way. She was very interesting and fucked up.
Nonetheless she was unquestionably a unique actress.
- Yes, 205, she was also a SINGER. Mainly a singer.
- [quote]that was at Liza's wedding to Peter Allen. Judy and Minnelli not friends otherwise.
Judy was on What's My Line? later that night. They mention the wedding on that show.
- Guys...you are aces! You know so much about Judy, even the smallest details. My tender loves!
- Judy Garland & Richard Burton
- My name is Judy Garland and i salute you
- Judy with Vincente Minnelli
- With her husband to be Vincente Minnelli
- Judy with Spencer Tracy and Vincente Minnelli
- I think that Judy is pretty sexy in that photo
- With our Liza
- OUR Liza???
- Frank gives Judy a light.
- R217 very nice photo! Oh Judy...
And R216, when i wrote 'Our' Liza i was meaning that public love and respect Liza because she has given unforgettable performances on stage and because the way she performs is singular.
- Doris Day visiting Judy Garland on the set of A Star Is Born (1954)
- Sorry that was the previous photo
- I wish you would knock it off with the pictures.
- R221, give me your e-mail or your Facebook and i will.
At least you like Judy?
- I know Lorna hated Mel Torme for writing that book.She felt Judy helped Mel's career and he stabbed her in the back.I ahven't read Lorna's book but I've seen the TV movie of it.I loved Judy Davis's performance..I read a self-titled biography of Judy years ago and I have a book called Judy and Liza.I saw Judy in The Wizard Of Oz when I was little and fel;l so in love with her I tied a note to a helium ballon and let it go to send her a message in Heaven.A friend helped me.to his credit,he never teased me about it.
- Yeah yeah yeah. And Lorna insists Barry Manilow is straight. NEXT!