Whenever I see an Asian child with white parents I want to scream. Now I have no idea what the motives or the intentions of these parents were when they adopted their child. They were probably good intentions. But there are plenty of children to adopt here in the U.S.- why go to China or Russia or some country in Africa. Aren''t American children good enough.%0D\
I know I will probably be called a bigot. But I wonder if white couples adopt Asian babies because in the back of their heads they think they are naturally smarter than American kids. Or maybe they are afraid if they adopt a kid here it will be a crack baby.%0D
OP, I whole-heartedly agree with everything you said. I''m also disappointed in people who insist on using surrogates instead of opening their hearts and homes to some kid who''s stuck in an orphanage/the foster system. It seems like Americans are the worst when it comes to shopping for children...\
I don''t understand it, but unless I''m mistaken, I think it''s easier for some couples to adopt from Asia than it is America.
So many reasons... the kids available for adoption in the US have spent too much time with fucked up families. They are damaged goods. Drug addicted mothers, kids suffering from fetal alcohol syndrome. Problems down the road are guaranteed. %0D\
Girls from China are a safer bet. They were given up and placed in orhpanages at an earlier age. They may have some attachment issues, but have not been neglected to the same degree.%0D\
The lack of adoptable infants in the US is the lack of shame. Idiot 17 year olds think they can raise children. The grocery store proves otherwise. Everyone backs off the pregnant moron and lets her decide. She picks something she can cuddle. %0D\
I loathe the "who will think of the children!" crowd. They are usually five years too late.%0D\
Sure there are exceptions. Many kids have been ably launched by teen mothers. Those kids remain outliers.
The sad fact is that a lot of permanent damage can be done to a child through neglect and abuse. Not everyone who wants to adopt is able to handle a problem child.
It''s easier to adapt children in other countries than it is in the USA, sorry but it''s true.
There are many reasons people might choose a foreign adoption, OP. My close friend and her husband adopted from Vietnam years ago -- I believe adoptions from there are closed to Americans right now. Her husband is older, and I know that his age was a factor in the decision, since some countries have age limits. (I''m not sure where the U.S. stands on this.) %0D\
Their adoption process was lengthy and detailed, but it worked out in the end. They were required to go to Vietnam to pick up their son, and they were able to meet the women who cared for him at the orphanage.%0D
I think there's another factor involved. I watch a lot of shows that feature adoptions, mainly because I was adopted as a baby and the process has always interested me.
When they talk about it during the interview sections of those shows, one of the most consistent answers is that by and large, with foreign adoptions, once a match is made, it's almost a guarantee that it'll go through.
People who adopt within the US have to deal with the birth mother possibly changing her mind at the last minute. Or another member of the birth family stepping in and taking the child. Sometimes this is after paying for the medical expenses and even having custody of the child for a short time. And to lose a child you've already started to bond with and/or spent months dreaming and planning for is something they grieve for like any parent who has lost a child.
With international adoptions, all they have to do is pass the government standards for being fit parents and it's as close to a sure thing as it can be.
Also, in the US, if it's an infant, people might be waiting on some birth mother to pick them based on a photo album or something they've submitted, so there's a lot of uncertainty. With internationals, it's agencies placing the kids going by criteria as well instead of having to hope some chick thinks you're the perfect parents for their kid. As long as you meet a certain set of criteria, you're almost certainly going to get a placement with most international agencies.
I know with my own adoption (back a few decades ago) even though they got me when I was only a few months old, the process of finalizing my adoption still took about two years. My mother used to tell me a story (in place of the birth trauma most have) that she had been sick and needed an operation, but had to put it off for at least a few months out of fear that her having a serious health issue would get me taken away from them before it could all be finalized. I think it takes less time now, but to a smaller degree people have to deal with those types of fears.
Because most people want to adopt babies, and they are at a premium in the US for adoption so many people go elsewhere in order to get an infant rather than a child.
"Whenever I see an Asian child with white parents I want to scream."%0D\
Most white people would prefer to adopt a white infant domestically, but they are very hard to come by here. Getting a Chinese girl is the next best thing to white for them.
OP,I also scream when I see an Asian child with white parents, because I know that the child is being raised by people of an inferior race.
My friend adopts from Vietnam. It cost her about $30 per child. In the US it would have been about $100,000 and she could not afford it. She adopted babies but not infants. It took about 2 years to process for each child vs. 5 years or more in the US. She is in her late 30''s and did not want to wait 5 years by which time she would age out of the system.
What R8 said. I saw a report on adoption and they said most people will take a child of any race except black. The majority of available babies up for adoption in the US are black. \
On a personal note.. My friend was thinking of adoption and said she would consider an asian child but not black one. She felt she was too far removed from their culture and wouldn''t want to deny them their heritage.
I think FAS is rare in Asia so babies tend to be healthier. I also think parents feel a sense of security in knowing that the birth mother/family is so far away and poor that there is little likelihood of them battling to reverse adoptions with claims that they didn''t understand their rights, or certain family members weren''t properly informed, etc.
My sister wanted to adopt, but in her state it would be required to be an open adoption, so they would have to maintain visitation with the birth mother, and you never know what you''re going to get with that. Therefore they would have gone overseas.
Seriously R10, just 30 bucks? That''s a barain.
You meant Bahrain?
Legally, it is a lot harder to get an American child than in some foreign countries...many of which are closing their doors.\
It''s a lot harder to terminate parental rights in this country, even if the parent is abusive to the child/children (and by the time a child is free to be adopted, it may be far older than the much-preferred infant).\
And, as also mentioned, there are a lot more ways for a birth mother to get the child back in this country, as opposed to other countries, where a mother may have either given up her child because girls are the less-desired sex, or she can''t feed it, OR because the baby was kidnapped, or the mother was duped into giving it up.\
I know someone who tried for years to adopt a child from foster care in her state, even stating that she''d take an older child or mixed-race, but there were none available (or in the case of placement for mixed-race children, they preferred a mixed-race or non-white family). She and her husband went to China.
[quote]She adopted babies but not infants.\
r13, what state is that? I''ve never heard of mandatory open adoptions.
"My friend was thinking of adoption and said she would consider an asian child but not black one. She felt she was too far removed from their culture and wouldn''t want to deny them their heritage."%0D\
Right, because I am sure some white american woman has much greater conversance with a chinese culture than they do with the next zip codes. THIS is why white Americans adopt from abroad: because they don''t want a black child, and that is all they can get here. It has nothing to do with the putative needs of the child.
Having experience working in international adoption, R2 is pretty accurate. There's also a lot of stigma around adopting African American or biracial children (not a whole lot of Caucasian children are placed for adoption). Many people feel it's easier to deal with a child who has limited birth history, and many don't want an open adoption (they don't want the birth parents in the picture, which is a lot easier to achieve if the birth parent is unknown or living on the other side of the planet). I've never heard of any State that requires open adoption, but the trend is definitely moving towards having this. I do know that some states have binding communication agreements in their legislation, so mandatory open adoptions might not be such a stretch. By and large, most of the people I've ever worked with who adopt internationally are fundie Christians who think they have to 'save' children while at the same time evangelizing the country from which the child comes. Why they don't think they can't save children at home is beyond me, but that's the way many of them think.
How many kids have you adopted, OP? How many unwanted children have you opened up your home and life to?
Didn''t Sandra Bullock just adopt an African-American child from within the US? Of course she''s wealthy and can probably afford what I presume was a private and not state adoption.
Black kids raised by white families often get a ration of shit from other black people once they get older.
"Black kids raised by white families often get a ration of shit from other black people once they get older."%0D\
[quote]There are many reasons people might choose a foreign adoption\
Because it''s trendy to have a chinese or african baby.
Madge, Angie, Meg Ryan etc
My partner and I adopted an Asian baby-- and we adopted domestically. Just because a child''s race is different from their parent''s, doesn''t mean the parents went outside the US. --We are often asked what country we got him from... we answer California.\
OP, I don''t think you are racist. I do think we are talking about human beings and not products made in a foreign country. I don''t think people should have the same "buy american" mentality when it comes to offering a loving caring household to a child. I think you are angry at the wrong people... You should be angry at the people having kids they are not capable of supporting/rearing--not the families that open their homes and give a child a good life.
R26, did you and your partner take the first child you were offered? Did you have any criteria such as ''only white or Asian?''
OP, I had to check the date of your post when I first started reading it to see if it was an old thread of mine I'd forgotten about.
My issues relate(d) to a combination of anxiety and depression plus the effects of coping with stress - bottling and managing and dealing. After many years I finally had enough of people and situations and started seeing everything at the same level of infringement on my time and personal space. Or just an infringement on the idea of decency and good manners. And I'd lay into everyone. It was a good thing. I wasn't happy. When everything takes on the same level of effrontery and everything seems personal, you know, as you said, that you're being irrational. So -
I got therapy and agreed on a course of Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy. I worked on just recognizing what parts of my behavior were immoderate given the circumstances and tried to look at things objectively. I started to trust my objective judgments rather than my subjective fits of "how dare you" and "you're going to pay for that." It made a difference just recognizing that someone was a turd - I didn't need to tell them what they were or take it personally. People are like that. And I worked on recognizing when the element of time was an issue I was making up.
If you want trouble you'll get it. That's one phrase that proves the self-fulfilling prophecy of how our days go. But on the brighter end, Lincoln said, "Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
Why give thoughtless people who you'll never see again power over your peace of mind?
I refused medication because I didn't believe they would address the real issues involved. I don't want myself masked. I still have my issues - but I'm not threatening as many old women writing checks at the grocery as I formerly did.
"But there are plenty of children to adopt here in the U.S"
It can take up to two years to adopt a baby in the US.
If there was a surplus of white babies to adopt in the US, no one would pay surrogates to carry a baby for them, knowing the potential problems that this situation can have.
Another reason is the 'Christian' faction who feel the need to 'save' children and continue with the fine, Eurocentric notion of acculturation.
I want to know what you DLers think about white parents adopting a black baby. My partner and I are looking to become foster parents and/or adopt. I'm told that everyone wants girls. "Boys are easier to get," I was told. "Especiallu black boys.. I personally love the idea of adopting a black boy but I've heard some people are violently against a black baby being adopted by white parents. Is this true? Would it suck for the kid to have white parents? White gay parents, no less?
r33, do it anyway. There will always be someone who disapproves - you cannot change that. If you love the child, adopt it. I know of several gay couples who have adopted African-American/biracial children. They need love too.
And I do think OP is a racist - why such a strong reaction. You want to SCREAM when you see white people who have adopted an Asian child....that sounds like hatred.
Supply / demand
Thanks, R34. It's odd that you might've just changed some lives with your encouragement.
I know of a gay couple who adopted an 'unadoptable' (detestable term) mixed race girl who was born with cocaine in her system. They were told she'd likely be brain damaged, have learning problems, be emotionally volatile, etc. She thrived in their care and did just fine.
So r33, if you have it in you to provide a stable nurturing home then by all means do it. Sometimes the experts are flat out wrong.
R34 is right. There is always someone somewhere to criticize. If you adopted an Asian child, people like those on this thread would shriek at you for going out of country and being too racist to adopt a black kid. If you adopt a black kid, people--likely many of the same--would shriek how culturally insensitive that is for white adoptive parents to raise a black kid outside her heritage blah blah. Do what you think is right. You and your partner are doing a wonderful thing. Good luck!
R33, I'm black and I'd say do it. There will definitely be challenges, but I think it's amazing that you and your partner's reluctance is based solely on the well-being of the child and not any kind of bigotry.
I'm glad I came across your post. Lately I've been developing the opinion, based on comments made on DL and situations offline, that racism is still a problem in the US. To make matters worse, discussion on the topic tends to lead to one side trying to diminish the other side's feelings, and one side wallowing in victimhood.
Good luck if you follow through, R33. People forget that having gay parents would make a kid more of a target than having parents of a different race...FACT. Therefore, if a gay couple is going to have children, they have no valid reason for being hung up on race. I speak from second hand experience: growing up, I knew quite a few white families with children from different backgrounds. Even in the Midwest, it wasn't a big deal. On the other hand, I knew a girl in high school who wad actively shunned and teased because her dad was gay. This was only 10 years ago, so I doubt children have matured significantly in that time.
Race bait thread that failed.
I'm happy it failed.
I know a couple who just adopted their fourth child from Vietnam. Their nail salon business is doing quite well.
It is nice to hear when people are more concerned about how racism or stigma will affect an adopted child and not how it will affect them as the adoptive parents. Kids of all races and developmental levels need homes - desperately. If you're willing to take on the challenge, then go for it. Understand there will be challenges, though, but there's no denying that a child who has challenges will do a lot better with a loving and experienced adoptive family than in a group or foster home.
Fundy Christians adopting children from Asia are telling themselves a fluffy bedtime story when they fantasize that they are 'saving' those little girls. I think they're creating a market for them. Those children are being bought and sold. Maybe not outright, but someone, somewhere in the chain is profiteering.
I think that when white people adopt black children, there is a concentrated effort to acknowledge the child's history. When white people adopt asian children, they're raised as "white," and then you have these heartbreaking stories of kids being raised with absolutely no sense of who they are culturally.
I want to have kids someday, one naturally and one adopted. And they will both be black.
I used to have this huge issue with transracial adoption, but now I don't really care. There are just too many children who need love and families out there.
To the poster who wants to adopt a black child, I say go for it, but really try to make a concentrated effort to educate them and yourself on black culture, history, etc. Get some black friends and if you don't have any, make some. Have black people in this child's life, and don't raise him/her in some white bubble because when they have to face the racism in this world they won't be prepared and it won't be pretty.
Trying not to preach, but just ensure that there are black people in the child's life in some way because when the race stuff comes up there are just some things that are gonna be completely out of your depth to help them with.
I hope you do it and have a great kid and family.
How many kids have you adopted, OP? What are their names? What has your experience with them been like?
So have you r36. You'll change the lives of whatever children you adopt.
[quote]and then you have these heartbreaking stories of kids being raised with absolutely no sense of who they are culturally.
Mary! Why is it heartbreaking if you don't introduce your asian child to asian culture? They ARE NOT ASIAN "culturally" if they are adopted into an american home. They are American. Don't confuse genetics with culture.
Is it "heartbreaking" that I have little exposure to my Irish, English, German and French "culture?" I'm 5th generation American.
When you adopt abroad you can select the skin shade to go with the decor.
The problem is: what do you do with the kid when you redecorate?
What R21 said.
Actions speak louder than words. If you're a selfish asshole who doesn't see fit to opening your own home to *ANY* child, I suggest you STFU.
You want to "scream" because people have given a home to an unwanted child? Yeah, I think it's safe to say that you're a bit of a tool.
[quote] I think that when white people adopt black children, there is a concentrated effort to acknowledge the child's history. When white people adopt asian children, they're raised as "white," and then you have these heartbreaking stories of kids being raised with absolutely no sense of who they are culturally.
When you adopt a black child you kinda have to acknowledge that child's history because the world will. (If the kid acts too white, the black community will reject him/her).
You don't have any of these issues with Asian children.
Also, can you imagine a gay couple adopting a black child. Not only would that child have two dads, but they have two WHITE dads. Fitting in would be really difficult.
Again, asian kids wouldn't have as much of a problem.
[quote]If the kid acts too white, the black community will reject him/her
Then his friends will all be white. Big deal. That's probably what he'll be most comfortable with anyway. Why would he even want black friends who are too stupid and racist to accept someone who doesn't "act black enough."
Well said R52 then you have racists like R51 who care more about their image and a kid "fitting in" than actually giving a kid a home with a parent or two parents.
A kid "fitting in" isn't about image and it isn't about the parents. Its about the kids happiness. Kids are cruel and awful to eachother. Why make that harder? Every parent just wants their kids to be happy.
A black kid with white parents is going to find it hard to fit in with white kids because they are black, and harder to fit in with black kids because they act white. It isn't racist to say that because that is just how the world is.
[quote]THIS is why white Americans adopt from abroad: because they don't want a black child, and that is all they can get here.
Of course this is true, most exemplified by those who adopt from Russia where the conditions are *known* to be horrible and the kids are often documented as having severe behavioral problems.
It's the "in" thing to adopt a child from a foreign country. It's considered very chic, which is why celebrities almost always adopt a foreign child, or at least a child from the U.S. who is African-American or mixed-race.
I guess some people think that children in other countries are worse off than ones in the U.S., so it's more humane to adopt them. That is a crock of shit.
It's gotten way out of hand. I think a lot of children from foreign countries are adopted illegally. Those two African children of Madonna's were. She was allowed to bypass the laws on adopting children in Malwai; the children she adopted weren't even orphans. But whatever Madonna wants, she gets. It would be more accurate to say that Madonna bought those children rather than adopting them.
Far better than being left to rot in a foster home, R54.
Consideration and effort can overcome many of those cultural issues you speak of.
And as far as your use of "acting white" is concerned; well let's just say you're part of the problem and not the solution.
"Also, can you imagine a gay couple adopting a black child. Not only would that child have two dads, but they have two WHITE dads."
I didn't realise that there are no black gay couples.
I tried to introduced my Asian child to his culture and he would have nothing to do with it. Not when he was very small and not now, while he is a teenager.
All he cares about is Green Day and memorizing baseball stats.
And he's terrible at math.
It is not easy to adopt internationally. You still have to complete a very detailed and extensive adoption package to satisfy the US govt requirements for bringing a child into the US and making it a citizen.
The easier part has more to do with the difficulties with the legal ties with birth parents.
An "orphan" is defined by law. Legally defined orphans rarely are without birth parents. They can be given up for adoption or abandoned and that fits under the definition of "orphan" for US govt purposes as well as for domestic adoptions.
[quote] She was allowed to bypass the laws on adopting children in Malwai; the children she adopted weren't even orphans
In all fairness to Madonna, Malawi was just developing adoption laws when Madonna first adopted. There were many unanswered areas of adoption which is why a court needed to make rulings on her adoption. The law I believe you are referring to was in place to prevent adoption as a ruse for child and sexual trafficking by unknowns. When you can pretty well ensure that such abuses will not be occurring because you know who is the adoptive parent then you can make exceptions to that rule. I have no other comment on her adoptions except that, again, "orphans" are not simply children whose parents are dead. If that were the case then we'd have very few orphans in the world.
r54, I am assuming most of the people considering adoption are at least middle class, as adoption is a long, expensive process to add a long, expensive process (child-rearing) to your life. Most middle-class black parents are not that different from middle-class white parents.
And I will agree with other posters, that white parents raising black children are usually much more thoughtful about their child's heritage than white parents raising hispanic or asian children.
Question for people more familiar with adoption procedure than me: Why haven't we seen the rash of Indian adoptions the way we have Chinese adoptions? It would seem that a lot of the same factors (little birth control/abortion, little desire for baby girls, generally ballooning population) are also at play in India.
R54, where on earth do you live? Do you really think that black people and white people can never be friends? Do you believe that white children are so racist that they would never be friends with a black child?
I grew up in a predominately white suburb in San Diego and my next door neighbors were an Asian/white couple who had adopted four children (one white, one Asian, and two black). Their two black children were both very bright, well-adjusted, and very popular in our predominately white school. They had many white, black, and Asian friends. I'm also part black and never had a problem being accepted by the white and black kids in my neighborhood and school. This isn't 1956.
Black children raised by white parents (and there are many) will like anyone else, most often relate to people from the same social class (working class, middle class....) regardless of race. And also African American children are guess what? AMERICAN! They are Western in every way. This talk about not adopting a black child because of their special heritage is quite silly. Their heritage is American heritage. If you are too concerned with what people might think about you adopting a black child, then don't adopt one because you are too feeble-minded.
The only problem I have with foreign adoption is that some evil pervert is getting them, or have gotten the children and abuse, enslaved, killed those children. I know the American adoption system is slow, but it's thorough. Certain states have a horrible history of adoption abuse.
ITA with R62. You guys are speaking as if culture were something defined genetically - it is not.
[quote]I think that when white people adopt black children, there is a concentrated effort to acknowledge the child's history.
The child's history begins at the moment of its birth.
[quote]When white people adopt asian children, they're raised as "white," and then you have these heartbreaking stories of kids being raised with absolutely no sense of who they are culturally.
"White" is not a culture. American is a culture.
[quote]Get some black friends and if you don't have any, make some. Have black people in this child's life, and don't raise him/her in some white bubble because when they have to face the racism in this world they won't be prepared and it won't be pretty.
I'm a ginger raised by blondes. I wasn't prepared for the ginger bias I faced when I left home.
My parents should have introduced me to ginger friends.
[quote] Now I have no idea what the motives or the intentions of these parents were when they adopted their child.
Usually couples want babies. White babies are in high demand and difficult to come by and the wait time very long, so they go elsewhere to get a baby.
There are waiting lists decades long for American children and gays are thrown out or banned in most jurisdictions (see Florida, Virginia). The only ones you can get are FOSTER HOME children, and they are older, when it is too late to correct their personality problems. Foreign adoptions are not less likely to have Fetal Alcohol, they are far more likely. They are also more likely to have suffered neglect because foreign orphanages are nasty places. But they ask less questions and haven't figured out the whole gay angle yet. Their biggest fear is Americans adopting children to harvest their organs for transplants, something which would be barbaric but has never actually happened. People want to adopt younger children to give themselves maximum control over child raising.
We adopted a 3 year old from Russia 3 years ago. He is a happy boy who loves us all as much as we love him. Our 7 year old and our adopted child are inseparable.
All we know about the birth mother is she was a prostitute who had no idea who the father was.
The agency in Russia we used has been in the news the last couple of years. You may remember the lady on Dr. Phil who used to punish her Russian adopted child by making him drink hot sauce or take a cold shower. And the one woman, who was so fed up with the Russian child she had adopted, she bought him a one way ticket back to Russia. She didn't even accompany the child back.
Since then, it's been harder for couples from the USA to adopt in Russia. It's really a shame.
I wanted a closed adoption, didn't want to deal with the birth mother. Also giving any child a home is wonderful, why should it matter where they are from?
In the last couple of years I've read several articles about the fact that many white Europeans looking to adopt are coming here to adopt black American babies. The agencies make it easy because they're so eager to find homes for the kids, since the demand for them amongst Americans is so low.
The richest country in the world is exporting its children. Appalling.
[quote] The richest country in the world is exporting its children. Appalling.
Why not? we export everything else
The hypocrisy of it all is amazing. Anyone who adopts because they want to be a parent is a fucking monster if they really expect the kid to meet certain criteria. You either have love to share or you're a narcissistic asshole.
Adopting Chinese baby girls was all the rage among upscale New York lesbians in the mid-90s.
Don't believe it R71, it's not true.
I thought the reason Americans adopted from Eastern Europe and China is because it was easier than going through the adoption process in America. I know a couple who adopted a Romanian baby for that reason. The child is practically feral.
LMAO @ R76. The last sentence made me lose it.
I would not trust the possible genetic problems associated with adopting the offspring of lower class and/or criminals.
R74 that's because most dykes who adopt or have kids do it because their lesbian friends are doing it, or they treat the kid like a pet or an object, and not an actual human being.
@R78, yes indeed, criminals such as Bernie Madoff, The Bushes, Jack Abramoff, the Hiltons, the Kennedys and the like. I'm sure by "lower class" you meant people that steal from the poor, rape and/or kill and cover it up and drug-addled waste of space trust fund kids, right?
"In all fairness to Madonna, Malawi was just developing adoption laws when Madonna first adopted. There were many unanswered areas of adoption which is why a court needed to make rulings on her adoption. The law I believe you are referring to was in place to prevent adoption as a ruse for child and sexual trafficking by unknowns. When you can pretty well ensure that such abuses will not be occurring because you know who is the adoptive parent then you can make exceptions to that rule. I have no other comment on her adoptions except that, again, "orphans" are not simply children whose parents are dead. If that were the case then we'd have very few orphans in the world."
There should have been NO "exceptions" to that law. You think they would have made an exception if a nice American couple had tried to adopt a kid; you think they would have been treated the same way as Madonna? Hell, no! Madonna is rich and famous; that's how she got her hands on those African children.
The children she adopted had families; she took them away from their own relatives. The excuse was that she could provide a better life for them than their impoverished blood relatives. Well, if she really wanted to play the humanitarian she would have financially supported the families so that they could better care for their children instead of spiriting them far away from their relatives, their culture and their country. The driving force behind Madonna's "adoption" of two "orphans" was ownership. She wanted to OWN a matched set of African children, and that's what she got.
A rich white woman taking possession of two African children...I thought that kind of thing went out after the Civil War.
OK r72 owes me a new septum. I just snorted beer out my nose. For you ww.
OP, you want to scream at white parents of adopted Asian babies because there are no Asians born in America, right?
Or Madonna could have actually adopted a kid or two that's actually an orphan and didn't have any family members or a home at all instead.
Our daughter Lilly is adorable and has Harvard Class of 2032 written all over.
R81, you just sound hysterical and you're not making any sense.
When laws are just being developed or haven't been tested in the courts yet there are bound to be exceptions allowed eventually as the case law develops.
The law which required a prospective adoptive parent to live in the country for a certain period of time ( IIRC it was 6 months ) before an adoption was written specifically so that Malawi authorities would have a basis to determine that a child was not being adopted and taken out of the country for nefarious purposes (sexual trafficking, etc). If there are other bases to determine this then obviously the 6 month residency requirement is unnecessary. Your insistence on unnecessary impediments to adoption seems misplaced and unhelpful to children finding homes.
Further your screed about the fact that the children had living families is irrelevant if the parents gave the children up for adoption. If she, or any other adoptive parent, wanted to sponsor a village or family that is one thing but we are talking about adoption here. Do you have the same objection to adoption in general? How about adoption in the US? You do know that most kids who get adopted even in the US have at least one living parent, if not two, as well as extended family, don't you?
Should someone who wants to adopt a child just pay to support the family instead?
I suspect that some posters simply have issues with some celebs and their objections are rooted in that bias.
R84, you are living in a dream world. As I said above, almost all orphans have family still alive.
[quote]Don't believe it [R71], it's not true.
Well, I can't force you to believe it, but it's a fact. Google it and you'll come up with plenty of articles from reputable sources.
It most certainly is true that American children are being adopted out to foreigners.
Once and for all, it is never easy to adopt outside the US and bring that child into the US. It is easier to adopt a child in the US via private adoption.
Adoption agencies are allowed to discriminate against gay couples, OP, you stupid fuck! There are states where gay adoption is illegal. Why don't you spend more time inquiring why the pro-life bunch aren't adopting children in mass quantities?!
[italic]I think that when white people adopt black children, there is a concentrated effort to acknowledge the child's history. When white people adopt asian children, they're raised as "white," and then you have these heartbreaking stories of kids being raised with absolutely no sense of who they are culturally.[/italic]
Your culture is the culture you're raised in, regardless of race. WTF are you bitching about? God, you racists are idiotic. No doubt you're white.
Send over a selection.
I can have one in every color! One in every room!
It's my opinion, children need homes regardless of race.
r51, how on earth would you have any idea if Asian kids would have a problem connecting to their community or not. I'm not even Asian, but that's the issue that I have with white people adopting these Asian children and raising them "white.". Asian people deal with racist crap too, and the point is that any child of any ethnicity needs to be exposed to their own culture no matter what the race of the parents.
The OP just should have named this topic "Adpoting a non-white child Over a WHITE AMERICAN one". It's pretty much what he is implying.
"It most certainly is true that American children are being adopted out to foreigners."
A number of orphaned African American kids have been adopted by white Canadian parents. Don't know how much of a trend this is.
[quote] And the one woman, who was so fed up with the Russian child she had adopted, she bought him a one way ticket back to Russia. She didn't even accompany the child back.
If you read her side of the story, the kid was a sociopath and she was scared of him. Sometimes foreign kids, especially older ones, are raised in such horrid conditions in the very early stages of life that they develop irreversible psychological problems. If a kid is neglected completely as a baby, never touched etc., they may become a sociopath and once that is set, there is way to reverse it.
She basically realized she adopted a little serial killer and didn't know what else to do.
This must be where the idea for the film "Orphan" came from.
I live in Europe, so an American child IS a foreign child.
who cares. the whole adoption thing is nothing but an extension of matriarchal hegemony
MHB is fish.
I don't care for Mandarin food.
And I wouldn't care for a Mandarin child.
[quote]Asian people deal with racist crap too, and the point is that any child of any ethnicity needs to be exposed to their own culture no matter what the race of the parents
A child born in America is not Asian. It is American.
The child has Asian DNA; DNA is not the same as culture.
"I suspect that some posters simply have issues with some celebs and their objections are rooted in that bias."
I suspect that you are a hysterical Madonna fangurl. Your defense of her scooping up two African children and taking them away from everyone and everything they're ever know certainly indicates it.
What kind of a "law" is deemed "unnecessary" in some cases? What kind of a law has "exceptions?" That doesn't seem like much of a law to me. And I would guess only the kind of people who could bypass that 6 month requirement are the rich and famous. And THAT is just plain corruption, you twat.
She didn't adopt those kids. She BOUGHT them. Like they were toys. I think they probaby ARE toys to her; cute little brown dolls she can dress up and use for photo-ops.
[quote] What kind of a "law" is deemed "unnecessary" in some cases? What kind of a law has "exceptions?" That doesn't seem like much of a law to me.
You're an idiot. Pure and simple. All laws have exceptions. Did you make it past the sixth grade? This discussion is waaaay over your head.
This is not about Madonna anymore. It's about the stupidity of people at gossip sites. Who gives a fuck about Madonna? Her time has come and gone. Looks like yours never arrived.
Parents who chose foreign adoption because they fear open adoption and the possibility that their child might know their birth parents' identity are really scary. Someday they are going to be forced out of their self-protecting, bought-and paid-for bubble of ignorance when the corruption of many foreign adoptions comes more fully to light. What would they rather have to deal with down the road: birth parents, or finding out their kid was abducted and sold on the baby market?
The scariest thing about adoption, foreign or domestic, is how little it has to do with the needs of the kid, and how much more it's ultimately about the needs of the adult who wants to be a parent.
Was admittedly kind of skeptical about white people adopting children of color (but also the idea of anyone being able to love an adopted child as much as one by birth, to give you an idea of what an ignorant asshole I've been about the topic of adoption in general for most of my life), but a white friend and her Puerto Rican husband adopted a little girl from Guatemala, now 7, and they put in quite a bit of effort into making sure that the culture she came from and the family she came from is still part of her life and she gets to know everything she wants to know, they go to some Latin history museum quite a bit, (the mother's even learned Spanish as well as the native language of the place the daughter came from), and they work to build up her self-esteem in her personal identity and educate her on things like racism... I mean it's obviously not all that they do, don't want to make it sound like they spend most of their time putting her through some racism training course, but they do obviously try to build her up and prepare her for it all and love the hell out of her.
And the reason they adopted foreign over American is that my friend had been trying for a decade to get pregnant, finally after two miscarriages was getting of age (early 40s?) and her husband's even older than she is so they wanted to get a child as quickly as possible, before they started losing the energy that would enable them to be the sort of parents they wanted to be.
Didn't want to deal with the birthmother. Some people are okay with an open adoption where you get to know the birthmother and she keeps in touch with you and your child. I wasn't comfortable with that and wanted a closed adoption and that was one of the main reasons I went to another country to adopt. A family we knew raised a boy for 3 years and because of a glitch the birthmother ended up getting him back.
"You're an idiot. Pure and simple. All laws have exceptions. Did you make it past the sixth grade? This discussion is waaaay over your head.'
"All laws have exceptions?" That is possibly the most insane thing I have ever heard on Datalounge or anywhere else for that matter. If that's what you truly believe then you are one fucked up, sociopathic douchebag.
You're a sick creep. Pure and simple.
I know three friends who adopted through the foster care system, and two of them have been exhaustive and heartbreaking experiences. One of them, the kid turned out increasingly mentally ill (psychosis) upon reaching puberty and has attacked the adoptive parents. They have to fight the system to keep him in a special school, have to monitor him at all times when he is home with them, etc. The "kid" is now age 15 and nearly as big as them.
[quote] Your defense of her scooping up two African children and taking them away from everyone and everything they're ever know certainly indicates it.
I loathe Madonna, but if I were one of those kids, I know I would rather be raised a millionaire in a London townhouse than be living on a dirt farm in Malawi.
Madonna is shallow and loathsome, but its a ludicrous argument that those kids would be better off in Malawi
I think the reason why more white American couples don't adopt Indian babies - despite there being a surfeit of them in India - is because Indians are too dark for white America's tastes.
white > east asian > white hispanic > non-white hispanic > indian > african > african-american
I'd take any of them. I want really want to be a father.
r112, it is very difficult to adopt from India particularly if you are not of Indian origin. And the country is currently closed to foreign adoptions.
Racism isn't driving where people adopt from. Most people adopt from countries that make it easy, like China.
Perhaps if the US didn't make it so damned hard to adopt we'd see more domestic adoptions and fewer children growing up in foster care. Many parents condemn their children to a life of foster care because they won't give up their parental rights, even if it is evident that they are incapable of raising a child. There are women in prison with no chance of getting out before their kids are out of the foster care system, yet still won't give them up.
"Asian people deal with racist crap too"
American-made products are usually more expensive and of lesser quality compared to foreign products.
I don't think there are a lot of black babies up for adoption. The black culture is not big on giving up their infants for adoption. There may be a lot of black children up for adoption but not so many babies.
I have seen a trend of mixed babies being adopted, which leads you to think that the mother was white who gave up the child. And to many whites it seems okay to have a bi-racial child.
Just about a week ago I saw a black couple pushing an asian baby in a stroller. I was like okay even they want an asian kid.
[R95] probably goes up to Asian-Americans (who may have been in the U.S. for many generations) and compliments them on their English.
OP, try not to get all crazy if you see one white parent with their Asian kid. I know a lot of white people who have biological kids with Asians, and sometimes the kids look --scream of panic-- Asian.
I have long wanted to adopt and definitely know I don't want a baby. There are entirely too many hoops to jump through in the US. Also, so many want to keep contact with their birth parents, siblings, grandparents, etc. On some level, I can respect that because many of these individuals did not do anything that contributed to the termination of parental rights. But it makes it much less appealing for me to move forward jumping through hoops to determine whether I am fit to be a parent.
ack. I meant [R93]. Sorry, 95.
Connie Britton just adopted a 9-month old boy from Ethiopia, and the process took three years.
3 years is rather long. Did she reject any she was offered or did she have reasons along the way to delay accepting a baby - like a work commitment? I do know that the paperwork is time consuming and some of it has to be renewed every so often - like 18 months.
But good for her. What a tremendous and loving commitment.
What I'm starting to see is more black families with adopted white children. That's pretty cool.
R122, I have NEVER seen that myself but you just gave me a great idea for a new sitcom pilot. :)
Here in flyover country, aka "the heartland," depending on how condescending you want to be, my niece has two half-Laotian children she spawned with her former boyfriend. The boy and girl are the sweetest and cutest kids you could imagine.
Don't assume that an Asian-looking kid of a white parent is adopted. And if they are, so what?
The glory of the U.S. is the amalgamation of races into something grander.
When the government of the United States of America begin putting laws in place that protect the Adoptive Parents then maybe more of us will look more closely at domestic adoption. It is very very very difficult to pay $30K, $40K in adoption fees to have a birth mother "simply change her mind", leaving the adoptive parents without a baby or their hard earned (sometimes borrowed) savings. Sorry, don't put this off on the Adoptive Parents who's only crime is wanting a child of their own. Domestic adoption is a very risky unattractive process, and the news is riddled with stories of Adoptive Parents heading to court to battle (and most times lose) for their child/children, months, or sometimes even years after they are brought "home". You want to see more domestic adoptions? What are YOU doing to help make the system more favorable for Adoptive Parents?
Sorry, AP. When you try to purchase other people's children because you can't have your own, there can be problems.
There was a picture in my local paper yesterday of an Asian girl all decked out in an Irish dancing costume, complete with curly wig.
It's getting increasingly hard to adopt outside the US - many countries have shut down their adoption programs, including Russia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Guatemala, Ethiopia, Congo.
R122, where the hell have you seen that?!
R126, way to sound completely ignorant about adoption. Adoption costs aren't about "buying" a baby but reflect all the fees and time of those involved (caseworkers, attorneys). And if people didn't adopt, what the fuck do you suggest should happen to unwanted children? Should they just rot away in an orphanage until they're kicked out at age 18?
R129, I am adopted, so I am hardly ignorant on the topic.
I think children should be raised by their parents whenever possible. The child in AP's hypothetical example was not, in fact, unwanted. What upset AP was that the 30 or 40k didn't confer property rights on a child.
My former partner adopted two white babies as a single lesbian. How did she do it? She was a lawyer for a legal aid agency in the South and came into contact with the 16 year old mother, who did not want to raise twins. As far as I know no significant sums of money were exchanged and it was simply a case of the mother wanting her kids to have a better life. Apparently everyone in the mother's family who knew the girl was pregnant liked my ex-partner and thought it was a great idea. So she adopted the twins. And no it was not an open adoption
When I hear stories about people who wait years to adopt, it always reminds me that fate is indeed very fickle.
BTW she is my ex because she never realized how fortunate she was about lots of things (including how easily she was able to adopt)!!
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