and their completely insecure attitudes. I don't know why you people worship them so much.
My two best friends' and sister's husbands are pretty cool, but most others are insecure little babies.
I live in a liberal hippie west coast city, and am pretty outgoing. I don't limit myself to gay bars and enjoy a variety of activities. I love hanging out with straight girls and gays/lesbians. I'm not even effeminate or stereotype and can talk about sports and cars...
But straight guys--even the ones who are progressive and pro-gay on paper--always seem to be just a little creeped out. They seem very uncomfortable at the occasional drag show, if we're at a bar and I'm peeing at the urinal, they will always come in and use the stall as if I'm going to grope them then and there, and if their girlfriends get up to go to the bathroom or whatever and they're left alone with me, they look extremely uneasy.
I'm friends with a lot of girls at work and have met the office straight guys' girlfriends at parties. The straight girls from work AND EVEN THE GIRLFRIENDS OF THE GUYS (whom I don't even know very well) all friend request me on Facebook. The straight guys never ever do. One did, but when I posted a prop 8 message one day he unfriended me. I'm also always seeing photos of parties thrown by these guys and there are all these coworkers there. I'm never invited.
I will go ahead and get the snarky replies under control. I'm not uber effeminate (but I'm not going to pretend to be uber butch either), I am partnered and do NOT ogle the straight guys (most of them are not that attractive anyway), and I'm not gross or annoying or anything like that. People at work generally like me and everyone BUT the straight guys are very friendly with me.
Why are they so damn insecure? Are that many of them so terrified that befriending a gay man will make them look gay? It's so stupid.
Well, it wasn''t too long ago that Boys Beware ads aired on TV depicting gay men as the equivalent of serial killers. \
Boys Beware (1961): Anti-homosexual film targeted at teenage boys, urging them to avoid encounters with potential molesters. Ridiculously insane.\
"A sickness that was not visible like smallpox...but no less dangerous and contagious...a sickness of the mind. You see, Ralph was a homosexual...a person who demands an intimate relationship with members of their own sex"
Op, most straight males are: insecure, vindictive, catty, miserable bitter assholes. Just always look at them from that view point and you''ll never be surprised or disappointed...or trust them as far as you can throw them.
I understand what you are saying about their insecurities regarding sexuality, but if you think about it, insecurities are a billion dollar a year industry. From plastic surgery trying to change how people feel about themselves, to politicians playing on homophobia in order to bankroll campaigns, everybody has insecurities.\
Knowing that, perhaps you can use these opportunities that you describe in order to help educate these people. Otherwise, figure out how to use it to your advantage, that''s what people do to all other insecurities out there.
My dad, who was born in 1931, said that when he was around 8-years old, he was almost kidnapped by a homosexual man. If not for his quick thinking, he would probably be dead.\
I asked how he knew this guy was a homosexual, and he said he wasn''t sure, but he just knew...that everyone knew "they" were out there.\
Of course this was long before I came out.
Why waste your time focusing on the behavior of losers? You''re spending too much energy on them, OP. Facebook friends, boyfriends of colleagues, urinal strangers - why do you care?
You don't know the right straight guys. Most of my friends are straight men. I find them, in general, much more easy-going and way less tense and self-conscious than gay guys. In my experience, gay men are much meaner to each other than straight guys are to gay guys. No doubt that says something about me, but there it is.
Straight guys who are comfortable with themselves are totally into gay guys, as far as I can tell. I don't mean sexually. I mean that most men grew up without an attentive dad, and straight guys appreciate men who are not afraid to express affection to other men. And of course it's way easier for gay guys to be nice to straight guys than it is for gay guys to be nice to each other, because the sexual dynamics are so different. Contrary to what everyone on DL seems to think, straight guys really don't want some dude to suck their dick, and gay men don't run around yearning for straight guys.
DL posters apparently believe every cliche they have ever heard about themselves.
It seems to me that the people who really do like gay guys are straight men. I don't have the sense that straight women, as a whole, are as turned-on by gay guys as legend would have it. Straight women are more accepting at the outset, more superficially accepting, but straight guys will stick by you all the way through, whereas straight women tend to have all kinds of little stops along the way where they let you know that they'll only go so far with your nonsense.
I'm generalizing horribly.
I just want to say, I think the received wisdom about straight girls being a gay guy's best friend, and straight guys being uptight and nervous around gay men: I think all that stuff needs to be re-thought.
Whenever I''m using the restroom at work, as soon as another employee (most of them) enters and sees me at the urinal, he either does a quick stop at the sink to wash his hands and leaves or uses the stall to urinate. I''m just a quiet guy who does his job, not preachy or political by any means. I smile to myself when it happens...these macho straight guys are intimidated by my presence.
R6 lives in Fantasy Land. \
Come back to reality, dear. On second thought, never mind. Stay in your cocoon like little dream world.
They know we have MUCH bigger dicks and far more gratifying sex lives.
R6 wants to believe that so badly, that he''s convinced himself it''s true. I''m amazed at people who can totally obliterate reality and create a fantasy world all their own.
I find it hilarious that so many straight men say that they don''t have any problems with gay men so long as the gay men don''t hit on them. LMAO. Don''t flatter yourselves, bitches.
I don''t mean to derail the thread, and completely understand why people don''t shower in public anymore. But the stall peeing phenomenon always makes me laugh. Most urinals even have dividers now, and these insecure fucks will STILL WAIT IN LINE to pee in the stall.\
In Jr. High and High School the stall pee-ers were ridiculed as being girly sissyboys. Now those same guys are pee shy all of a sudden?
I think a lot of straight men are discomfited by male homosexuality because it is an assault on male privilege, the bedrock on which our cultural concept of masculinity is defined.\
That being said, I know plenty of really decent and cool straight guys.
OP here. EXACTLY R11. I meant to put that in my original post but wanted to be nice. My boyfriend is way hotter than these paunchy balding 30 and 40 somethings I work with. And yet I''m sure they sit around fretting that if they hang out with me I will try to rape them.\
I don''t think so, cupcake.
R6, you must live in a very liberal, tolerant place, because if what you''re saying is true, then why the hell do so many gay men remain closeted. Why are we still dealing with things like Prop 8? \
I was listening to Talk to the Nation about gay students and this one gay guy emailed that he''s from some state in the mid west, I think, and that he has NEVER EVER experienced the slightest bit of homophobia. That he''s been out since birth, had a bf since he could walk, went to his prom, etc...etc. And there is just no way. He must be living in his own bubble.
OP, why do you can straight men "men," and women girls? Can''t you say the W word?
r6 is probably in his 20s and is probably right about his friends.
R11, I heard my uber-macho cousin say that at a wedding. A few of my gay friends were in attendance and I heard him say, "I got no problem with ''em, as long as they keep their distance ...but if even one of them tries to hit on me, I''m going to knock ''em out."\
He didn''t know I was behind him when he was telling my, oh so loyal brother, who just laughed.
The kind of straight men you describe are probably insecure about their sexuality. They''re afraid you''ll hit on them. If they were confident in their sexuality, they wouldn''t care even if you did.\
I mean, I''m a lesbian and if a straight guy hit on me, I''d just say no thanks and probably be mildly flattered. It wouldn''t matter to me.\
For what it''s worth, the dynamic you describe often occurs between straight women and lesbians. Straight women love their gay male friends but can get uncomfortable around dykes. They''re afraid we''ll hit on them.\
But as R11 said: LMAO.
No question there are straight men who are uncomfortable around gay men but OP I think it might be worth looking at the possiblity you could be projecting your anxiety about being alone with straight guys onto them.\
Many gay men have a history of being rejected by and tortured by straight boys/men and it is only natural out of self protectiveness to project those experiences onto any guy with the label "straight"\
To the extent that uncomfortability is really there, it could be coming from other sources than homophobic ones.\
Benefit of the doubt here can go a long way to breaking the ice
r 6, here. Why do gay men always get so freaked out when somebody suggests that all straight men don't hate them?
Dudes: Yeah, duh, I went to high school in America, I know exactly how brutal and abusive straight guys can be. I also know that the US is still a wildly homophobic place. And I am surrounded, at my workplace, by people whose lives are constructed around - among other things - the notion that homosexuality is bad and wrong. (Well, I work with a lot of very religious people, church-going Christians and Muslims and observant Jews. I'm an atheist.)
I didn't say there was no such thing as homophobia. I said:
A lot of gay men are incredibly brutal to each other. What is gym culture but a festival of brutality? Why do gay men think it's okay to treat each other like big pieces of meat? Straight men who are enlightened have learned from women that they cannot treat women like big pieces of meat, unless they have explicit permission. Lots of gay men feel no need to learn how to treat each other with respect.
And I said:
Straight women can be way more judgmental about "lifestyle choices" than men. In my experience, straight guys don't care what you do. They figure it's none of their business. Whereas women are more likely to want to pass judgment on the way you live your life.
As for urinals: There are lots of men who don't like to piss at urinals. They're pee shy, or they don't like the public aspect of it, or whatever. I don't piss at urinals because I can't ever pee at urinals. I don't know why. Plenty of guys are pee shy. Plenty of guys don't get into hauling their dicks out into the open air, no matter what their dicks look like.
Maybe you guys who are constantly waiting for straight guys to pull up next to you at urinals - maybe you're putting off an icky vibe, no matter what you tell yourself.
I can think of all kinds of gay guys whom I would never want to stand next to at a urinal.
[quote]Straight women can be way more judgmental about "lifestyle choices" than men. In my experience, straight guys don''t care what you do. They figure it''s none of their business. Whereas women are more likely to want to pass judgment on the way you live your life.\
Well it works both ways you know. I''m a straight woman and I''ve befriended gay men in the past who have assumed I wanted to date them. One was a co-worker and another was a friend of a friend. In each case, word got back to me that they thought I was interested in them and "didn''t I know they were gay?" I was flabbergasted. I enjoyed their company, both were very witty and fun to be around. But I was NOT interested in them and didn''t think I gave any vibes that I was. I was in my early 20''s, engaged at the time and VERY much in love. Anyway, I remember being extremely annoyed and wanted to set the record straight with them, but of course I couldn''t because I would seem psycho. I also rembember being amused at their arrogance that they thought they were hot enough to attract my interest or that I''d ever cheat on my fiance.
R11 is so on target. What I don''t get is this: Straight men don''t automatically assume that every straight woman is going to be turned on by them, so why are they convinced that we''re all going to want their pasty, pimpled, fat asses?
Straight Up Now Tell Me
Whatever, the gay guys on this board are convinced that all straight men want a gay man to fuck them. And the gay guys on this board are convinced that straight men are hotter than gay men. And the gay guys on this board hate and despise women with a virulent passion that is violent and shocking. So it doesn''t surprise me that you can''t handle the truth: Adult straight men who are comfortable with their sexuality make better friends than vicious, angry, self-loathing, women-hating, body-fascist gay guys who believe every wicked cliche that they have ever heard about themselves.
Yes they do R24. Straight men don''t befriend women unless they have motive---usually sex. That''s why they are suspect of gay men who want to befriend THEM. They just assume you want sex, because that''s all they want from the group of people they are sexually attracted to. \
Makes perfect sense to me.\
Str8 female with no (real) str8 male friends
But you realize that by denigrating other gay men as human beings, inferring that straight women are entitled fair weather friends, and apotheosizing straight men as the gold standard by which to measure human behavior, you are behaving exactly like the self-loathing posters you claim to despise, right?\
"A lot of gay men are incredibly brutal to each other."
One gym queen snubbing another, or barflies dissing each other is brutality? My, you are an extremely delicate, hot house flower, aren't you.
"What is gym culture but a festival of brutality?"
Again, what's with the histrionic use of the word brutality. Football and hockey are brutal. Ultimate fighting and boxing are brutal. Working out at the gym? Not so brutal.
"Straight men who are enlightened have learned from women that they cannot treat women like big pieces of meat."
And there are relatively few of those type of men around. In fact, far too many women like a "take charge" guy who isn't afraid to use violence to get what he wants. You've obviously never been to the Jersey shore, or watched the TV show of the same name.
"Lots of gay men feel no need to learn how to treat each other with respect."
And you need to quit drawing broad, wide spread conclusions about gay life from your apparently extremely limited experience with gay life. Gay life does not solely revolve around bars and gyms.
[quote]Op, most straight males are: insecure, vindictive, catty, miserable bitter assholes.\
since most gay men I know are that way I''d correct that statement to read that ALL men are insecure assholes.
R21, check out www.eastonmountain.com.\
You need to check yourself into this place for at least a week to rid yourself of your silly, preconceived notions about gay life.
Oh please- grow up. there are good people and bad people nice people mean people etc etc in the world. Gay or straight has little to do with it unless you are prejudiced. That is the bottom line. \
There is bigotry and antisemetism all over DL- does that make gay men and lesbians racist antisemites? ...now the OP''s silly post.\
Grow up and get out in the world and open your eyes. Or hem yourself in with your own prejudices and lurk in your own swamp. Your choice OP.
could not have said it better, charlie.
Maybe when the guy is in a movie restroom or wherever it was, he just wants to urinate and doesn''t really want you straining your eyes to catch a peek? Is it what is wrong with him, or what is wrong with you? He is in there for the reason he is supposed to be in there, what''s your excuse?
r 28, I know what I know, and I read the posts on this board. The gay men who post here are either: a) viciously misogynistic; or, b) comfortable around people who are viciously misogynistic. If the gay men on DL were not misogynists, they would not use the c-word with such mind-numbing regularity. And if they were not misogynists, they would call out anybody who expresses misogynistic sentiments.\
I don''t have any straight male friends who use the c-word.\
I am certain that there are plenty of straight men who hate women, but I choose my friends carefully, and the straight guys I hang with are feminists, and they are anti-homophobic.\
If DL is any measure of what gay men are like, then I feel I can make the following generalization: Gay men hate women, and they hate themselves, and the only men who excite them sexually and emotionally are women-hating straight guys.\
Read this board, motherfuckers. Pay attention to what people really say.
I wish the title of this thread was: \
"So tired of straight men...sucking my cock!"
R34, there are just enough on DL to make that almost but not quite true. But you make a very good point.
[quote]Straight women love their gay male friends but can get uncomfortable around dykes. They''re afraid we''ll hit on them.\
I''m sure that''s sometimes true but it has not been my experience as a 40-something lesbian. I think this happens with younger women..ie in their 20s.\
But for some reason younger men don''t have the same issues -- older guys do.\
Just my 2 cents.
Oh shut up.
Your basic premise is flawed, R34, so that makes your generalization even more flawed. \
DL is a measure of what gay men are like? Since when? How do you know gay men are making these posts? Ever heard of the word trolling? Its an anonymous message board, how do you know who is making these idiotic statements, or why they''re making them? Hell, I''ve posted shit on here just to get a rise out of people cause after a while, you know what buttons to push. \
Ever read the reader comments section of any on-line newspaper, or worse, the rants and raves section of Craig''s List? You think this place is nasty, racist and misogynistic?
[quote]You think this place is nasty, racist and misogynistic?\
3 for 3!
[quote]In my experience, gay men are much meaner to each other than straight guys are to gay guys. No doubt that says something about me\
[quote]I don''t have any straight male friends who use the c-word... If DL is any measure of what gay men are like, then I feel I can make the following generalization\
So straights get a pass because you know ones who are liberal and pro-gay, but your only experience of gay people is DL, and that makes all GLBT people (or gay men only) vicious and evil.\
I should''ve skipped your entire self-serving, logic-impaired post.
I''ve only read OP''s post and none of the replies, but I''ll say this: I have no problem whatsoever with straight guys, unless they''re over the age of, say, 50 or so. Most guys I know under that age are perfectly cool. I''m in my early 30''s and the majority of my friends are straight and we get along just find. I never seem to have the experience that OP describes.
[quote]Straight women can be way more judgmental about "lifestyle choices" than men. In my experience, straight guys don't care what you do. They figure it's none of their business. Whereas women are more likely to want to pass judgment on the way you live your life.
There's some truth to that in my experience, both in cities and (even more so) in living out in the sticks where straight men, regardless of age and education, are unphased by dealings with gay men, whereas straight women are more likely to evidence some small hesitation or surprise or discomfort at learning that I'm gay.
With straight women out in a socially and politically conservative country, there's a keener interest in pegging everyone as married or divorced or dating or engaged, and how many children they have, etc. Coming across a gay man can rattle that whole scheme for them, leaving them scrambling for conversation. Their male counterparts, though, take things more at face value and carry on from there.
But back to OP's points, discomfort at watching a drag show may not be the best indicator of anything. They make me uncomfortable, not out of self-shame but because they are so bad and impossible to ignore -- like a Benny Hill marathon, at full volume, but without the (scant) humor.
I've noticed, too, that men in office social settings are more likely to keep clear of other men who they perceive to be part of a women's "circle." There's no denying homophobia, of course, but that's not always the explanation for everything, least of all not everyone liking you.
I agree with OP, these guys are idiots. But, also, some gay men are also uncomfortable around effeminate gay men. The ones who give gay men a "bad name" or are "camp". Which is pretty sad and pathetic. I don''t associate with gay men who feel this way or speak this way about gay men. \
I think people in general, regardless of their sexual orientation, just lack tact and respect of other people. \
But, don''t let these guys get you down. Don''t associate with them. \
R21, R34 is out of touch with reality. Heterosexual males are not what you portray. I think R26 stated one reason heterosexual males avoid friendships with gay men. Because the only time heterosexual males want friendships with women are for them to become sexual they think the same thing happens in reverse with gay men. I can tell you flat out that is 100% false. I''ve had heterosexual male friends and none of them interested me sexually at all. I also believe heterosexual males want their group of friends to be heterosexual males and have the exact insterests they have. They want conformity, they don''t want to deal with people''s "issues" or inabilities. They don''t want to deal with differences.
I''m with R5. \
Btw, I think it''s the ones who are most likely to be repressed bisexuals who are the most overtly insecure.\
OP, there are lots of cool straight/bi men out there- look more for the artsy and collegiate types and not the tech/business types.
There is no doubt that most gay men (and I can, indeed, make a generalization) I have met in life (and I am now 50) have been damaged and had serious self hate issues not matter how much they have/had worked on them. There are, of course, generational differences now but how RARE to ever meet a gay man who genuinely is emotionally mature, has healthy self esteem and is relatively "normal." Gay men (MUCH moreso than straights) have been emotionally stunted, too, and have lived The Velvet Rage (read the book.) They have had little to no idea how to BE in healthy relationships, either friendships OR romantic relationships because they never had a template, role models or support from society at large OTHER than OTHER gays who were dealing with the same stuff. The blind leading the blind. And so many are like mean-spirited, fickle teenage girls with each other. The gay culture is hideous, too, making it all about sex and body image, which is reductive to the spirit and to a healthy emotional life. Gay imagery and the bar scene are soul deadening if that is where one EVER goes for validation.
Straight men are all over the map with homophobia but the ONE thing I know for sure is that we ALL want to be around people who are COMFORTABLE with who they are, who like themselves, who have an easygoing masculinity, even if one is "effeminate" (as long as it's REAL), and who can bring MORE TO THE TABLE than just sexual attraction. If that is all one has to offer or what one LEADS with (and so many gays do that), it is tiresome and offputting. Even annoying.
I don't want to be around a gay guy who makes ME uncomfortable, either, by giving off a creepy predator sexual vibe. Physical attraction should be natural and draw someone in, not put someone on guard. Many self loathing gay men, even unbeknownst to themselves, give off a vibe based upon their insecurities. They FORCE their issues onto straight guys because they are not comfortable in their own skin. They cannot forge genuine friendships because there is always the elephant in the room.
I guess it all comes down to the fact that if you like yourself, REALLY like yourself, then others will too. Water seeks its own level and every cup has a saucer.
[quote] "effeminate" (as long as it''s REAL)\
What does this mean? Hahaha! Who cares if it is, or it isn''t.
[quote] They want conformity, they don''t want to deal with people''s "issues" or inabilities. They don''t want to deal with differences.\
I agree, but really aren''t most people like that? I''d say only about a third of people, if that, are remotely open to anything vastly different than their comfort zone or their preferred cultural identity. This includes liberals, monorities, gays, and hipsters. Open-minded people aren''t easy to find. In fact it''s easier to find guys open-minded about sex (which is at least gratifying/pleasurable) than about really getting to know people who live very different lives.
r48, some gay men are over the top with their behavior and it appears as a type of performance art. You can intuit if someone is being "real" with you or not, can''t you? Or can you? Your begging the question indicates that you really missed the point. Wow.\
Many effeminate gay men are STRONGER than steel and have quite the conviction of character because they have HAD to be to survive in life. They are REAL because that is who they really are. It''s more a comment on the definition of a man than anything else. We all have to come up with our own definitions as to what it means to be a man because our straight fathers and peers sure as hell didn''t give us a template for what it means to be a gay man.
And what about all of you who have straight men friends who you ARE attracted to? How do you deal with that? In my case, I have many straight guy friends who I am physically attracted to. THAT is probably the most common situation. I NEVER let on because it would be uncomfortable for BOTH of us and I always wonder if on some level they know. It never comes up, though. Some of these men I have been friends with for 25 years or more. \
I think unspoken sexual attraction of gay men for their straight friends (sometimes reciprocated even if only as being flattered or with some curiosity) is the most common situation of all. Bully for you all who said "I have NO attraction to my straight guy friends" but I don''t think that is the norm. That is, unless you seek out straight men friends who are trolls. You are GAY for chrissake.
Who cares if a gay man is over the top. Good for him. Let him be as over the top as he wants. You should befriend him too because he probably gets a lot of shit for being himself.\
It''s the effeminate gay men who fight for gay rights the most and will be probably be the ones who get gay people equality.
R47, not to straight male bash, but is it really any accomplishment that straight guys are comfortable with themselves? Our entire culture is based around validating them and their experiences. \
And even with an entire culture built on prioritizing them and their needs, many of them still never seem to tire of marginalizing the rest of us.\
Talk all you want about how stunted and damaged we are, we''re not the ones orchestrating mass rapes, or shooting up women''s colleges, or staging dog fights. Every group has it''s dysfunctional members, but it''s really only straight men who seem to feel the need to take their dysfunctions out on society at large.
Every orientation and gender has its nice and its mean individuals, but I must say that I''m always incredibly amused by how some people on the DL feel the need to defend straight men so strongly. There must be some kind of psychological issue there, for a gay man to be so willing to pontificate on high about all these virtues that every straight man inherently has.
Everything In Moderation, My Dears
[quote]some gay men are over the top with their behavior and it appears as a type of performance art.\
Give me a break. That is weird thinking. Stop thinking.
r53, I agree. So why don''t we just find a way to love OURSELVES as much as the straight men with all their attendant hubris?
[quote]And if they were not misogynists, they would call out anybody who expresses misogynistic sentiments.\
Maybe we can know a troll when we see it and don''t engage.\
Not arguing with trolls is not a sign of agreeing with them.
[quote]There must be some kind of psychological issue there...\
Yeah, it''s called I hate myself syndrome, but I still want to suck the straight man''s cock because I am THAT hot I turn straight men gay.
A lot of gay guys aren''t into drag shows. Straight men might be uncomfortable if the drag queen is really sexy.
R53 is so, so right. Heterosexual males take their dyfunctions out on society.
Cole, I''m perplexed that you can agree with me that our culture is designed to prioritize men, reflect their experiences and protect their interests, and yet you seem to willfully ignore the equally obvious fact that our culture is also designed to prioritize white people, reflect their experiences, and protect their interests. \
[quote] Straight women can be way more judgmental about "lifestyle choices" than men.
r21 you are mixing up two different things - response to sexual orientation and response to sexual conduct. OP started a thread about response to sexual orientation. If you find women giving you negative looks or lecturing you about AIDs and the risk of serial killers when you tell them about answering craigslist ads for bareback sex or whatever that is a different thing. You can expect them to give those same sort negative looks or lectures to straights, it's not a matter of orientation.
Straight guys are less likely to openly lecture you about engaging in risky or promiscuous behavior but that isn't an indication of greater respect of gay orientation. Women are more parental about these things and are constantly trained to fear dangers of promiscuity by society (it'll make them sluts, it'll get them raped and afterwards everyone will say it's their own fault, it'll give them disease, it'll will end with them being hacked to bits in a stranger's apartment, etc).
By the same token, you don't see straight guys react like straight women towards cute committed gay couples like NPH and David or Ellen and Portia. Most women find long term, monogamous, committed relationships romantic and wonderful. It's straight women not straight men you see going on with adoration about gay happy couples.
R62 is right on the money with that comment.
"In my experience, gay men are much meaner to each other than straight guys are to gay guys"\
Completely disagree. Who do you think is bullying gay boys on the playground or calling people "fags" or bashing guys who hold hands in public? Okay, some of them might be deeply repressed gay men but most are just asshole, bigot straight guys.\
My experience has been that very few straight men have close friendships with gay men. Some who are liberal and gay-friendly might have casual friends who are gay, but that''s about it. Most of the gay men I''ve known have far more straight female and gay male friends than straight guy friends. The few gay men I''ve known with mostly straight male friends were guys who were very masculine and could easily pass as straight. All these guys tended to be part of macho, all-male or mostly male institutions like sports and the military.
r 39, I said IF this board is representative of gay men. I didn''t say THAT it was representative. I hope it''s not! Because if this board is any indication, and if most of the people posting denigrating comments about women''s bodies are in fact gay men, then there are a lot of gay men out there who are misogynistic.\
A gay man who is a misogynist is a man who hates not just women, but other gay men, and himself.\
Why can''t you face the truth?
I would get them in the bathroom. In fact, I''ve broken up more marriages than Elizabeth Taylor. I''m the one people warned them about and yet I''ve never had any complaints after the fact. Their insecurities are not really about sex at all, but from all the baggage old-style masculinity puts on people. The don''t share, stiff upper lip b.s. that they are told to live up to.
Exactly, r62. I was going to write something similar but you said it better than I could.
the gay guys on this board hate and despise women with a virulent passion that is violent and shocking.\
Thanks hon, that made me laugh.
R65, why can''t you face the truth? You are a very naive gay man without a lot of life experiences, much less real life experiences with other gay men, other than some seemingly superficial encounters at gyms, bars and the "real" world of DL. \
And there seems to be more than just a touch of self-hatred in all of your posts.
Most gay and bisexual men are creeped out or repulsed by drag too, so what''s your point?
gay men have serious issues. THEY Hate eachother! Stop calling eachother "girl" and "queen" you ARE KINGS!! Stop emasculating eachother dammit! You can be gay and manly.
r 71, I''m 51 years old, I''ve lived in Manhattan for 30 years, I''ve never really been a bar-going guy, but I have spent plenty of time with gay men, with lots of gay men, and not for sex, but in the context of various political causes: I know all I need to know about gay men.\
And I''ve had sex with plenty of guys.\
All I mean to say, is: Reading posts on DL is likely to give somebody the impression that all the cliches other people tell about gay men are true: That gay men hate women, that they are obsessively fixated on straight guys, that they hate themselves, that they have very little going on in their heads except to wonder how to find their next abusive straight-guy firefighter with a ten-inch dick that he''ll push up your "mussy" while he calls you a silly faggot and you scream with pleasure.\
Those are the kind of gay guys who post on DL, unless it''s really a bunch of shrewd 15-year-old girls posing as icky gay men.
lipstick les @r72 = female misogynist. Go work on your own issues first, dumbo.
I concur a 100%, R73. You forgot about "All lesbians are fat, butch and ugly".
r74 is a bulldyke!
..and you''re still a female misogynist, r76. As your little tantrum shows.
Well, R72 is part right and the proof is this messageboard. Masculine=straight, Queeny=gay and that stupid fantasy involving straight men.
r77 why cuz I believe the feminine is beautiful and gentle, not trying to impersonate men!
[quote]but how RARE to ever meet a gay man who genuinely is emotionally mature, has healthy self esteem and is relatively "normal." Gay men (MUCH moreso than straights) have been emotionally stunted, too,\
Hate to say it, but I wholeheartedly agree.
A certain subset of gay men aren''t exactly cool either. I have seen certain types of gay men step to straight men with a chip on their shoulder or act hostile toward them, even if the straight dude is being cool. Moreover, I have seen some gay men get an attitude if a gay or bisexual dude hangs with a lot of straight guys and has "bro" relationships with a lot of non-gay guys. Sometimes they wrongfully accuse gay guys who have mostly non-gay male friends of sleeping with their non-gay male friends or being Uncle Toms. Talk about small minds.
"...has ''bro'' relationships with a lot of non-gay guys"\
This? Is part of the problem.
Just Sayin'', ''Bro''
R61 No, the world is not prioritized for white people.
r83, your outdated, narrow mind is the problem, dude.
No because you put men above women r80. Look up the word misogynist.
Btw, r80/LL, you could probably put a comb through that mustache on your top lip. Now go shave your back.
A few, but I would guess merely highly vocal, people on here worship straight men as sex objects.\
More probably appreciate straight men because we are venting over the perceived lack of interesting gay men around who treat us right - akin to the appreciation of many straight women for gay men. The grass is always greener syndrome.\
Still others of us find straight sex erotic from a voyeuristic perspective although some of us have an aversion to the subject.\
And some no doubt find the idea of sex with ordinarily straight men an erotic fantasy.\
But the fetishistic straight dick worship is, I would guess, is distorted in our minds as a fixation afflicting gay men. It is not of the mammoth proportions sometimes attributed here.
I think the fetish for a straight man is a fetish for someone who can think only of his own dick. For some reason, that can be hot.
R90, how is that a straight male characteristic? I think it''s simply male(straight or gay).
OP, think of how women are treated by straight men. So straight men who are insecure around gays are expecting this same type of treatment and it makes them uncomfortable because they know they like to manipulate and humiliate women. \
You should just have fun with it. Lick your lips, squeeze their asses etc.
I dunno R91. A lot of gay men think about their partners dick too. At least that''s been my experience.\
I''m generalizing at r90, but I think you know what I''m talking about (the difference between straight guys and gay).
SOrry I don''t. I''ve been drinking(seriously).
I think straight guys are afraid you''re going to get loud and catty, and they won''t be able to defend themselves without looking silly.
DL use of the c-word, and the word "frau," must be stopped - not just because they are offensive, but because they are making it possible for people to harm queer teens.\
Stop the violence.
[quote]I think straight guys are afraid you''re going to get loud and catty, and they won''t be able to defend themselves without looking silly.\
Revenge of the weak
As a student of psychology I've seen that like most other sheep, many are scared ittle boys afraid that one of their friends will see they have a friend who is different and call them a 'fag'. The pressure is intense from a young age as you're either part if the in-group or the subject of teasing and bullying. This is about as formulaic as the Easter Bunny .
Sorry to hear that your tool acquaintance unfriended you. Bummer to be disappointed by other people.
Very interesting thread
Tired of the dark ones, starved for the blond ones...
Straight men are uncomfortable around gay men because they don't want to be exposed to unwelcome passes they continually subject women to.
If you expect straight men not to be bigoted, well, that's a stretch. I've known lesbians for thirty years, and there is not a single one who does not hold false stereotypes of men and gay men specifically, even though they are wonderful, progressive and friendly lesbians who don't hate men. There is not one, who, if I were accused of sexual misconduct, would stick up for me without first asking if I did and evaluating my answer as if I might have. Given that even our best and closest allies are prone to negative stereotyped judgements of us, it is perhaps asking too much of "fraus" and straight men that they be entirely free of prejudice. The "Fraus," I might add, will SEEM to be accepting, but it is an act. At bottom they will jealously keep you away from their partners and try to undercut where they can. They are above you in the social hierarchy but they see that position as essentially insecure and never forget that you might be able to bring male entitlement to bear on them somehow. Straight men are usually simple narcissists who love to be admired. Gays are attractive to them as people who can perform that function without baggage or expectations, but if you do ANYTHING better than they do, watch out. They will not forego a leadership role to you short of blood being spilled. If you can enjoy them on that basis, fine, and it is worthwhile bringing home to them the gay perspective. But any alpha male or competitive type behavior will instantly trigger rape fantasies in their minds that can get you hurt and betrayed in a New York minute. And they are much better at the two-faced thing than you are, having practiced it on women all their lives.
"And they are much better at the two-faced thing than you are, having practiced it on women all their lives."
Exactly, there is nothing more two-faced and lying in the world than a (straight) man. Clinton "I did not have sex" ...., Penn State "we did not know" ..., Anthony Wiener "I do not know if that is a picture of my OWN penis" ... Larry "Wide Stance" Craig, ... I'd be running out of space here.
Now closeted gay men pretending to be straight, or bisexuals, these are the most difficult and complicated category of people we have to deal with, because you have such a variety within this group. Some will admire you and sacrifice for you, sticking up for gays under "cover" of their homosexuality, as long as not too much is expected. Some will treat you as trash, under they excuse that they treat women this way even though you lived with them and none of the women were more than a one-night stand. Some will see picking on you as their only hope of improved social status. Many will pretend to be your best and closest friend to your face while scheming against you behind your back with a rather shocking intensity and single-mindedness. And if they fail, they will lie about which side they were on afterwards. Some will use you to make their wife jealous or pregnant. Some will blame you for their gay feelings, particularly if they molested a brother or young friend and feel guilty about it. Unfortunately, there is no limit to the crazy you can find in this category. There is one guy who follows me around trying to insult and mock me for more than twenty years now even though I have not seen him in all that time and never did anything but help him. That is how creepy these people can get.
r104, only the bulldykes hate men!!
I agree with R6 but I also agree with the OP I know straight guys who assume that because they're men that I'm somehow attracted to them or that I'll make a pass on them.
Sorry I'm not that desperate and they're not my type at all.
Giving this thread a little more life!
Wow, what a bunch of hypocritical bigots.
I'm a young gay (20s) man in LA who feels blessed to be gay. Most other gay guys my age feel the same; there is no lack of other handsome gay guys to date, and even young straight guys semienvy our carefree lifestyle. Unlike them, we are not weighed down by the pressure to marry, have kids, pay a mortgage, etc.
So who cares what straight guys think? Their lives are boring and their relationships (with women) are fraught with problems and miscommunication.
I would never in a million years wish to be straight. I truly believe, like Margaret Cho says, that gay men are the end of the karma chain.
OP, are you talking about just white men? Is there any differences in the reactions from asian or black men?
This thread was started in 2010.
R26 hit the nail on the head.
"Op, most straight males are: insecure, vindictive, catty, miserable bitter assholes"
sounds like the gay men on this board.
When I was young and 3752.9987% STRAY-Y-Y-Y-Y8 (that is SO gay!), I got hit on so rarely that I freaked when ANYONE did it. If a girl did it, I'd be shopping for a ring. But I wasn't into gay sex that much then. Buy I did start to fantasize...};)
Just flagged an Anonymous reply that I didn't mean to. How do I unflag?
You can't be serious? fags in L.A are the epitome of the worst stereotypes in the world. Weho GAYS are so nelly etc. also, straight married men are on average happier than gay men.
"I would never in a million years wish to be straight. I truly believe, like Margaret Cho says, that gay men are the end of the karma chain."
LMAO- HIV, STDS, HOMOPHOBIA, INTERNAL GAY BASHING ETC ETC ETC
This is like the Great Bump of 2012. This is at least the 10th thread from mid-2010 that's been bumped this week.
Straight men are the most insecure people on the planet. I laugh at how worked up they get about gay men.
[quote]I don't think so, cupcake
Are you sure you're not a tiny bit eeeffeminate, sugar plum?
Most straight men are pathetic pussy hounds and love to sit around verbally bashing gays. I was closeted for years and would sit around with this type at work not speaking out for gays or revealing my identity. It was soul destroying for me.
And sure enough, once I came out the same guys went to great lengths to avoid me. The irony is that I think some of these guys liked me fine but they didn't want to be seen with me fearing others might think they were gay.
It just goes round and round fellas.
This is why straight women love gay men ...straight guys are insecure assholes . that's it in a nutshell for all of you who have asked that question.
I despise 95% of straight men.
I'd rather befriend a mangy hyena than a straight guy.
Gay guy here. I find it easier to be friends with straight guys, than gay guys. In my condo building there are several other gay male households. I am friends with only one of them, all the others will say hi and wave, but never any meaningful conversation or interaction. By contrast, I've had many great times (hanging out on the front steps, dinners, whatever) with the straight guys in my building. Overall, I find gay guys generally more off-putting and haughty. Also, as other posters have mentioned, my straight guy friends, I can rely on them no matter what. Gay guys who are close friends, I can also relay on no matter what. Casual gay guy friends, can't trust 'em much at all.
I used to have an (indirect) straight male married-with-kids colleague, who would get annoyed and nervous if I tried to make small talk, but if I politely avoided him he would get all upset and he'd complain about how I never paid any attention to him. Extremely tiresome person.
[quote]This is why straight women love gay men ...straight guys are insecure assholes . that's it in a nutshell for all of you who have asked that question.
I've always heard that it was because there's no threat of relationships/sex. In other words, they feel "safe" with them.