Lindsay Lohan: Borderline Personality Disorder?

Sure seems like it.

Borderline? I think it''s Full Blown Personality Disorder, or commonly known as FBPD, pronounced FuhBiPiDee.
She lies, steals does drugs and seems to have abandonment issues, so yes.
I think she''s tremendous!
Patsy Stone
From the DSM-IV: BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER: A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following: 1. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5. 2. a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. 3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self. 4. impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5. 5. recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior. 6. affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days). 7. chronic feelings of emptiness. 8. inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights). 9. transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms. Um, yeah...I think she's got it!
And here I thought she was a just a spoiled, drug addict starlet who loves the attention.
No, she just was carrying a teacup up the stairs after the shower. She''d just put on lotion and fell down Bryan Adams'' stairs and fell on the teacup.
Dina
I don''t think this is a real disorder. It just sounds the way someone who came from an unstable, unloving background would respond to life events if they haven''t healed from their traumas.
More like Narcissistic Personality Disorder.\ \ I saw her about a year and a half ago at SFO international airport...with Sam Ronson. They were walking past the Duty Free shop, and she looked up and saw the giant Gucci ad outside the shop.\ \ She stared at it and said "Oooooooh, Guuuuuuuuuucci...!"\ \ I thought, what a weirdo. She probably sees more decadence than I ever will in my lifetime, and a fucking Gucci ad inspires her?
That sounds like she could be distracted by a bright light.\ \ "ohhhhh shinny!"
I agree with R7.\ \ I don''t think it''s a clinical disorder, but it is a pattern of behavior that emerges pretty predictably when someone had a certain upbringing.\ \ Just like it''s pretty predictable that a person would avoid relationships after having their heart broken, it''s pretty predictable that one would behave the way a BPD person does when they''ve had a chaotic, neglectful, and / or unloving upbringing.
thanks R4: that''s the best description of myself i could ever find.
at least now i know
As soon as the check clears, I''ll tell you what a great daughter she is. And if it doesn''t clear...
Michael Lohan
Spot on. A classic case of BPD if ever there was one:\ \ "Individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder have a pattern of unstable and intense relationships. They may idealize potential caregivers or lovers at the first or second meeting, demand to spend a lot of time together, and share the most intimate details early in a relationship. However, they may switch quickly from idealizing other people to devaluing them, feeling that the other person does not care enough, does not give enough, is not "there" enough. These individuals can empathize with and nurture other people, but only with the expectation that the other person will "be there" in return to meet their own needs on demand. These individuals are prone to sudden and dramatic shifts in their view of others, who may alternately be seen as beneficent or as cruelly punitive. Such shifts often reflect disillusionment with a caregiver whose nurturing qualities had been idealized or whose rejection or abandonment is expected."
R7 and 10, what''s the difference between a "clinical disorder" and a "pattern of behavior"? No snark here, I''m really asking.\ \ I''m reading that the thinking now is that people start with a genetic susceptibility. \ \ Lindsay, being born to and raised by totally fucked-up people, seems like a reasonable candidate.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/health/16brod.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=borderline personality disorder&st=cse
It's definitely a clinical disorder; I lived with someone who had it. The irrationality is truly beyond the pale, the black and white thinking (you're either an angel or the devil and it turns on a dime); the ability to misconstrue a compliment into an insult; rage and panic attacks--and the most important thing that defines it as a disorder for me is that you NEVER heal without treatment. Unless you do intense DBT for years, it does not go away, and decades of therapy is no guarantee that it will. For many it's incurable, no matter what the pros say. Some people who come from traumatic backgrounds behave in a defensive manner, have uncontrollable rage and engage in abusive relationships, but they work through it themselves or through regular talk therapy--these people likely do not meet five out of nine of the above criteria, as is required for a Dx of Borderline. People with fewer than five criteria may be pretty damaged and have abandonment issues, but people with BPD are barely functional and you have to be a true codependent and have serious damage yourself to live with the person and take the abuse and emotional manipulation for as long as I did. That shit is no joke, and most people who have it do not get better. Having said that, I have no idea if Lindsay even has a personality disorder, let alone that particular one. But it is real.
Why does all bad behavior have to be a ''disorder''? Can''t it just be bad behavior, brought about by not taking responsibility for your own actions and being just a general, all-around brat?
Are you really that dim, R7/10?
Yeah, not so fast guys. BPD is an actual disorder. It often occurs after someone has experienced a prolonged period of unacknowledged/invalidated abuse, which causes a serious disconnect between a person''s feelings and what he or she sees being validated in their external reality. They often lose the ability to sync these two things as adults, and as such create a lot of the turmoil around them to validate the chaos they still feel inside.
Yes, Linsay Lohan has BPD. If she appears to have Narcissitic PD, that''s because both disorders belong to the B cluster, which are the emotional, dramatic disorders. So they share similar traits. And it is also possible to have a cross of two PD. It''s called Borderline Narcissitic personality disorder. \ \ The strongest indicator that she has BPD is her obsession and stalking of Sam Ronson. She threatened or tried to kill herself because of the breakup. That, combined with the substance abuse and other issues, screams BPD.\ \ And r10, clearly you''ve never had an encounter with someone with BPD. It''s a singular experience.
So, what personality disorders do her parents have?\ \ Michael Lohan seems a good bet for narcissistic or sociopathic personality disorder, but that wacko mother has me stumped.
What R16 said.
If somebody''s repeating the same patterns over and over again, though, r16, especially to the point of self-destruction, wouldn''t you wonder how and when they got started, and whether their behavior is unique or of a type, and whether anything could be done about it? \ \ Of course, in Lohan''s case, if her crazy nightmare parents weren''t determined to become famous for being terrible at child-rearing, and if we hadn''t seen her when she was a kid, we probably wouldn''t be so inclined to wonder what went wrong with her, and to dismiss her behavior as just plain bad or mean or stupid or whatever.
can men have BPD? It always seems like women are diagnosed with this.\ \ (that said the symptoms reminded me of Princess Diana was she BPD)
Go fuck yourself, r17. \ \ The reason there''s "no cure" for bad behavior is because the only cure for human behavior is death. It''s ridiculous to make an illness of natural human traits and reactions. Schizophrenia is an illness. Cancer is an illness. Being emotionally volatile, as exasperating as it may be, is not an illness.
r7
r24 sounds like they have BPD
I don''t have BPD. I do have Major Depressive Disorder. I just think it''s insane to classify annoying but totally normal behavioral traits as insanity.
r7
no one called insanity. they just called it a disorder.
r14, if i understand your question correctly, what makes them "personality disorders" rather than just patterns of behavior is their impact on the person''s relationships and ability to function. narcissistic, histrionic, borderline, paranoid, antisocial -- these are some of the recognized personality disorders. i believe this is from the DSM-V proposed definition of personality disorders:\ \ "Personality disorders represent the failure to develop a sense of self-identity and the capacity for interpersonal functioning that are adaptive in the context of the individual’s cultural norms and expectations."\ \ they are also inflexible, maladaptive, chronic, and pervasive across life activities.
skinwoman
A disorder of the mind, a mental illness, insanity. You''re not like us so there must be something wrong with you, a sickness. Bullshit. And to expand on what r23 noted, how many, many more women than men are "diagnosed" with this, it''s like the modern day version of "hysteria" or "the vapors". It''s a misogynistic creation used to stigmatize people, particularly women, who are emotionally disruptive to the status quo.
r7
You definitely have the "black and white thinking" part down, R29.
loves r30
skinwoman
Yes, clearly I''m the one suffering from black and white thinking as I suggest there''s a spectrum of normal while you eagerly embrace the idea that anyone who doesn''t fit into a box is disordered.
r7
R7, fine. Mental illness is a social construct which disproportionately penalizes women and minorities who don''t "fit" into so-called normative behavior. To the extent you''re worried that the characteristics of BPD fit you, please go ahead and ignore them. That said, can we please move on?\ \ R23, yes, men can have BPD and tend to be under-diagnosed.\ \ Lindsay''s obsessive stalking of Sam Ronson, her self-mutilation (cutting), her inability to spend time alone, her drug abuse, her parents, her statements to the press that Ronson''s family were trying to sabotage their relationship...seems to me she has all the hallmarks of BPD (although with narcissistic characteristics, as pointed out by an earlier poster).
OP
I didn''t say mental illness is a social construct. You''re intentionally misconstruing my point. And, no, I don''t fit the criteria for this so-called disorder. What concerns me, as I''ve said, is classifying normal human behavior as an illness. Yes, certain behaviors may trend together, but that doesn''t make them a "disorder" it, if anything, illustrates a personality type. As for Lohan, whom I''ve met, there''s no way to know what''s really going on with her mentally until she gets sober.
r7
[quote]It''s a misogynistic creation used to stigmatize people, particularly women, who are emotionally disruptive to the status quo.\ \ I agree.
R7, how is *any* of the behavior exhibited by Lindsay Lohan "normal human behavior?" If that''s normal, the human race is f*cked.
If BPD is just a misogynistic attempt to stigmatize normal human behavior, can you please give an example of what you would consider a "real" mental illness?
The reason I object to everything being classified as a "disorder" is it discourages people from seeking help or feedback.\ \ But if you describe it as a set of maladaptive behaviors, people are pretty open to the idea that help is out there. Specifically, the behavior can be unlearned.\ \ And there are lots of people in the therapy community (and the public at large) who are curiously invested in the idea that BPD is "untreatable." \ \ Thank goodness this idea is very outdated, though some clinicians and "civilians" still cling to this idea for their own (usually unhealthy) reasons.
r36: It looks to me like she''s punishing her parents for farming her out as a child by trying to destroy what they worked so hard to create. It, also, seems clear she has severe substance abuse issues. Is it unusual to exact revenge against someone you feel has done you wrong? Is addiction uncommon? \ \ r37: Schizophrenia, Bi-Polar Disorder, Depression, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Pedophilia, etc.
r7
R37, BPD isn''t classified as a mental illness. If you are going to advocate for certain nomenclature, at least use the correct term.
Oh, the irony.
[quote]The reason I object to everything being classified as a "disorder" is it discourages people from seeking help or feedback.\ \ On the contrary, saying it is normal behavior disqualifies a lot of assistance that would otherwise be available.
R32, you are demonstrating black and white thinking by equating any mental diagnosis with "insanity."\ \ (See R26, R29)
I didn''t say it was "normal," R41. \ \ If you are going to take it upon yourself to lecture other people, please take care to respond to what they actually wrote.
R10/38
Since you are being especially picky, I will restate without the word "normal." Perhaps this will persuade you to respond to the actual argument:\ \ On the contrary, saying it is not a disorder disqualifies a lot of assistance that would otherwise be available.
My bf's sister is a narcissist and the way she perceives herself and her place in the world bears absolutely no relationship to reality. And because of the perception she has of herself and of the world, she can never change. It's no skin off her nose. She doesn't see why anyone shouldn't want to spend lots of time listening to her yammer nonstop about everything from her sex life to the food she cooks every day to her Hitlerian perception of the value of certain wines and the personality and intelligence of people who drink the wines she likes and the people who drink the wines she doesn't like. She perceives herself to be an expert at many things; she dropped out of high school at 15 and reads nothing but detective novels. Yet she is a genius political analyst, a gourmand, a wine connoisseur, a travel expert, a medical specialist, and an expert ethnographer (she has opinions on every race and ethnicity, all of them stereotypical). She is the source of all kinds of information about homeownership and upkeep, landscaping, cars and car maintenance and repairs though she has never owned a home or a car and does not even drive. When in the company of females she considers rivals, she becomes overtly sexual with men, sometimes removing a bit of her clothing (perhaps a bra, perhaps she may change her blouse in front of a young man, claiming she needs to be more comfortable) and talks ceaselessly about how men want her and take her out and pay for expensive dinners at the best restaurants in NY (they actually do this; what she doesn't mention is that the men are all married and there is kinky sexual payback involved). In short, if you cannot change the perception a person with a personality disorder has, then they cannot change. And many of them will never give up their perceptions /illusions/ delusions.
[quote]saying it is not a disorder disqualifies a lot of assistance that would otherwise be available\ \ What are you talking about? Insurance reimbursement? You aren''t actually making an "argument" you know. Just a sweeping pronouncement.
Oh please she isn''t punishing her parents or acting out. Stop making excuses for this chick. She is a thief,drug addict and a spoiled girl. Who continues to manipulate. She also continues to feel entitled to getting away with shit. Had this been someone else they would be locked up by now.
stop the bs
Giving her an imaginary personality disorder is making excuses for her. She''s reacting to events and making terrible choices in how to respond, choices partially fueled by heavy substance abuse and, at this point, possible brain damage from that substance abuse.
r7
R46:\ \ Yes, insurance reimbursement is one case. Others include: public systems such as Medicare/Medicaid, managed care, expense qualification for health savings accounts.\ \ To the extent that prescription medication may be involved, states are increasingly implementing requirements that a diagnostic code be written on a prescription.
So, the "disorderfication" of these problems is really about medical professionals getting paid. Interesting.
The matter of assistance is not cited as a full explanation of why these problems are considered disorders but as a counter argument to your claim at R38 that calling it a "disorder" prevents people from seeking help.
I’m just lurking here, but I couldn’t help notice a few odd inconsistencies.\ \ R7 writes: “I didn''t say mental illness is a social construct.” But earlier she posts the following: “A disorder of the mind, a mental illness, insanity. You''re not like us so there must be something wrong with you, a sickness. Bullshit...It''s a misogynistic creation used to stigmatize people, particularly women, who are emotionally disruptive to the status quo.” It sure sounds to me like R7 is saying that disorders of the mind, mental illness and insanity are social constructs...\ \ R40 says: “BPD isn''t classified as a mental illness. If you are going to advocate for certain nomenclature, at least use the correct term.” \ \ According to WebMD: “There are many different conditions that are recognized as mental illnesses. The more common types include . . .anxiety disorder, mood disorders, eating disorders, impulse control and addiction disorders, personality disorders...”\ \ Good day.
I think Michael Lohan is a straight-forward case of raging Narcissistic Personality Disorder.\ \ Dina is harder to figure out. She seems to enjoy the attention that Lindsay''s behavior brings and does nothing to try and assist her with getting help. \ \ Munchausen by proxy?
R7 no doubt read "Girl Interrupted" (in which the protagonist is arguably incorrectly diagnosed with BPD) and therefore believes that BPD doesn''t exist and was only created as a way of institutionalizing girls who don''t conform to societal norms. \ \ However, I was friends with a woman in college who displayed the criteria associated with BPD. She made life horrible for everyone around her. To say she was "emotionally disruptive to the status quo" does not even begin to describe the damage this woman inflicted on her friends, family and even complete strangers. As a result, I (a life-long feminist) sincerely believe BPD exists, irregardless of what R7 (or Susanna Kaysen) may believe.
Hell yes, it''s real. If you''ve never been involved with a BPD count your blessings.
R52, personality disorders and "mental illnesses" are generally two different categories. \ \ "Mental illness" is generally used to refer to conditions with an established biological /biochemical / organic component. Incidentally, "mental illness" is also an obsolete term. \ \ Some less-informed people will try to say that a personality disorder is a subset of "mental illness," but this isn''t really accurate.\ \ \ And R7 and R40 are two different posters. I''m not sure why you would expect their posts to be consistent with each other.\ \ And, anyway, what was your point? Did you have anything to add to the overall discussion? Or did you just feel like being an ill-informed cunt?
Thanks for answering my question, R7.
R17
Mental illness and insanity are two different things.
Yet another person here who has had long-term dealings with a family member with BPD. It''s real, it''s incredibly destructive and stressful for everybody else in the family. My partner and I are now trying to make sure this individual, who can''t hold a job or sustain a relationship, does not end up on the street once the parents are dead. Mood swings, paranoia, threats of suicide, verbal abuse -- you will recognize the behaviors if you''ve dealt with a BPD person.
[quote]"Mental illness" is generally used to refer to conditions with an established biological /biochemical / organic component.\ \ While the personality disorders are indeed considered on a different "level" (Axis II), other disorders are not categorically defined as "biological" or "organic."
I''ve worked with a real nutcase who I think has BPD. This guy (who is gay) has only had one serious relationship, which was physically and emotionally abusive in both directions (his description). He does seem sexually impulsive; we have a lot of mutual friends (being similar in age and gay and working at the same company), and at a party we were at, he started making out with some guy in front of everyone. He used to have a problem with stealing things, and I''m 99% sure he stole my iPod from my coat at another party. He attempted suicide when he was younger and feels the need to tell everyone this in order to get some sort of sympathy, or for all of us to see how tragic and dramatic his life is. The worst part is how he acts toward other people. He''ll try to hug you first thing you enter a room and will ask you how you are, and is really nosy about secrets. Not quite sure, but I think he''s got it.
Men are diagnosed with it. Women are diagnosed more often, but men absolutely have it. It is over-diagnosed, without a doubt, sometimes by misogynistic male doctors who think every woman has it. But there is a big difference between people who meet a few of the criteria and people who meet five out of nine. If you spent significant periods of time with anyone who has it, you would know this. It renders them BEDRIDDEN sometimes. It is not a game, and I understand the concerns of misogyny here, but by pretending the people who are truly suffering with this is invalidating them further. The old "how come everybody who doesn't fit into your box of normal has a disorder" argument was already answered, several times. You have to have five out of nine. If you have four, you are pretty damaged and probably need some help, but you do not have BPD. This is from the DSM; it's not like we pulled it out of our asses. It is a horrible, horrible thing for someone to go through and it is equally horrible for the person's loved ones. It ruins lives. Pretending it doesn't exist is not "feminist." Pretending it doesn't exist hurts women. I'm so glad some others feel that Susanna Kaysen was misdiagnosed, because I agree. Susanna Kaysen is an example of the diagnosis gone wrong, a scenario where R7's explanation is true. Her misogynistic doctors considered her "promiscuous" (she wasn't) and thought that this, coupled with a suicide attempt and a problem with authority, made her Borderline. She wasn't. But that does not mean the disorder does not exist. For the millionth time, R7, you have clearly never dealt closely with anyone who has it. Also? The person in the psychatric community who is considered the utmost authority on this disorder is Dr. Marsha Linehan--a woman. I refuse to diagnose Lindsay Lohan; I don't know her. But the disorder is real. I lived with someone who had it for two years. She did not have major depression. She is Borderline.
R15
Sorry, should have been: "It is not a game, and I understand the concerns of misogyny here, but by pretending the people who are truly suffering with this [italic]don''t have a disorder[/italic] is invalidating them further."
I'm a feminist and borderline in recovery. The BPD developed as a result of being sexually, physically, and mentally abused by my father and being raised by a borderline mother. It does exist, and it's hellish to live with and around. I've seen both sides of the coin. DBT changed my life and enabled me to confront and conquer my unhealthy thoughts and behaviors. BPD is treatable if the patient is willing to do the work and can find an empathetic, knowledgeable therapist and/or psychiatrist. BPD has become a trendy, catch-all label, and people who don't know much about it parrot the sensationalized, distorted assertions attached to BPD. Even some so-called experts sensationalize BPD. Examples? I watched a TV show about a couple of nurses' aides who murdered patients. One had a BPD diagnosis, and the forensic psychiatrist went on about how borderlines supposedly lack a superego or conscience. Wrong. Some do but not all. I'll fully own up to being more self-involved in my own problems than I should be, but I don't lack a conscience. I most definitely have a conscience. To the contrary, I literally get sick if I say or do something that hurts someone. Even unintentionally hurting someone racks me with guilt. To this end, I do my damnedest to avoid confrontations and am a people-pleaser. But to hear some people tell it, borderlines are monsters who maliciously and deliberately inflict pain and sew discord wherever they go. This kind of thinking doesn't help anyone. If a borderline has massive guilt issues like I do hearing this stuff is like a kick in the gut. We're not monsters.
Wow, R64, that was a great post. I''ve worked with people with mental illness and personality disorders for about 15 years. I''m not a care provider, but I work along side those that are and the one thing that so helps working with people who have these issues, is insight into their own condition. Sounds like you have quite a lot of insight. \ \ What you said about having a conscience...I''m under the impression that it is those who have Narcissistic Personality Disorder or Anti-Social Personality Disorder (I can''t remember what the new terminology is for ASPD, but I know it''s changed) don''t have consciences. Is that right?
[quote]We''re not monsters.\ \ Maybe not ALL monsters but oh boy..... I come from a family of people with personality disorders. The crazy-making is hell on earth. Just because you are not this type does not mean the rep BPDers have as "monsters" is undeserved. It might not be nice to hear but as a survivor I will not apologise for using it.
Thanks, r65. I believe that your assumption about ASPD is correct, but I''m not an expert. \ \ R66, I don''t expect you to apologize; rather I urge you to think of the disorder as falling on a continuum. Borderlines have varying degrees of the disorder. I''m considered highly functioning and as such not the paradigmatic borderline (at least the image that people associate with the disorder). I realize that many people are worse off. \ \ As I wrote in my previous post, I grew up with a borderline mother and have insight into what it''s like to live with a borderline. Luckily Mom isn''t as bad as many people are, and I know how to handle her through the DBT. In turn, I''ve learnt how to handle myself. There''s a world of difference between borderline who went through DBT, takes responsibility for his/her actions, and strives to be a healthy, caring person and untreated borderlines.
R64
Borderline bump
I'm a mother of a 16 year old girl who has BPD. Trust me it is a real disorder. Just this past weekend she overdosed on her anti-depressants, but luckily she is medically okay from that. But she has all the other classic symptoms, cutting, severe mood swings, chronic emptiness, rage.... Right now she living at an eating disorder clinic because she has anorexia. It is truly a living nightmare for a mother. I know everyone is of the opinion that BPD is the result of a neglectful, abusive upbringing, but I want to let people know that that doesn't have to occur in order to develop it. I honestly did my best as a mother, I breast fed her until she was two years. I was a stay-at-home mother until she was 13, because I wanted her to have all the advantages of a stable and loving childhood. I never wanted her to feel lonely, like I felt growing up. Sure there were times when I lost my temper, but it honestly is hard to take their rage in a calm way all the time. But I never verbally or physically abused her and neither did her father. I'm not going to lie and say she never got a spanking, but it was probably less than seven times. We did move though when she was 13 to another country, just because there are not any jobs here. We have always been there for her and just moved back to the US to get her help. I just want people to know that genes are powerful, more powerful than any great parenting style.
anonymous
R69? Go wash your dick cheese.
With the money at Linty Lowhand''s reach, the silly twit shoud get whatever help she needs.%0D\ Why is the press so obsessed with the idiot?
Sick, sick, sick of LOHAN
No - Angelina Jolie is borderline. Crazy, but can show up to work and get it done. Hollywood has a history of nutball druggies who manage to show up on time and do the job before going home to do more drugs. Lohan hasn''t been able to pull that off since Mean Girls. She''s past borderline. She''s full mental.
"I just want people to know that genes are powerful, more powerful than any great parenting style."%0D\ %0D\ Why do you say "genes", is there a history of mental illness or personality disorders in your family?
Well, I can't say that any family member has been officially diagnosed with a mental illness,but some certainly display traits.My in-laws are from another country and going to a therapist is something they would never do in a million years. It's just culturally unacceptable. My mother-in-law has some borderline signs, black & white thinking, rage, controlling, narcissism, perfectionism. My brother-in-law has rage problems too, plus black and white thinking. My mother by no means was borderline, but she certainly loved her pills. Often borderlines have extended relatives who possess borderline traits.I'm not trying to say that borderlines make up abuse stories, I'm sure there are many who have suffered. However, there are those who have come from loving families, but sometimes life's challenges trigger this disorder. For us it was moving to another country. I remember when my daughter was in 4th grade she had a really mean teacher and that was the first time her rage appeared. When she was younger as long as things were going her way, life was okay and she didn't have any rage attacks. What I'm saying, if someone is extremely genetically vulnerable, something in life is going to set it off, because life can't always go your way.
Well, I can't say that anyone has officially been diagnosed with mental illness, but some do have borderline traits. My in-laws are from another country and they wouldn't even think of going to a therapist in a million years. It's just culturally unacceptable. My mother-in-law has black & white thinking, rage, narcissism, perfectionism and is super controlling. My brother-in-law has rage issues and black & white thinking as well. My mother, while certainly not borderline, she loved her pills. Many borderlines do come from families whose extended members have either BPD or traits of it. I'm not saying that borderlines make up stories of abuse, but there is the genetic component that is often overlooked, because it is just not as interesting or as verifiable. My daughter first displayed extreme rage when she was in the 4th grade, because she got a really mean teacher. She also had other signs that I didn't take seriously as she was growing up, because she was young. However, when she was entering 8th grade we moved overseas and that was when things went downhill for her. Although, when she was younger, as long as things went her way she was wonderful. What I'm saying is if someone is extremely genetically vulnerable, something in life will trigger it , because life just can't always go your way.
Actually r15, a good number of people "outgrow" the disorder. I did. After 10+ years of a few different types of therapy (never did DBT) I finally felt like I had gone as far as I could and stopped. I also stopped the self-help books, the journaling, the groups and decided I needed to accept living as a "damaged" person. I acted damaged for a good 5 years after that but then my behavior slowly began to change, I started gaining emotional equilibrium. I'm much calmer now, and in the 5th year of a very stable relationship (absolutely unthinkable in the past), and my mood swings are about 1/1000th of what they used to be when I have them (the best way to describe it is "like a normal person's mood swings."%0D %0D I called the last therapist that I went to (also the best) and told him all of this. He stated that it is not uncommon to grow out of BPD. The other thing I do nowadays, though I do not think it cured me, only enhanced my mental well being, is take good quality supplements. I researched different supplements and started taking those that support mood stability (fish oil, b complex). I also do not eat processed foods. I figure my brain chemistry should be as fully supported and uncompromised as possible.
Been there, done that, finally in a better place
r74, so your husband''s mother and brother both exhibit borderline symptoms but not your husband? Please describe your husband, I''d love to hear your perception of him as a father.
R6, thank you for the list (I think that was you.) When I first saw such a description list of BPD some years ago, I was investigating or trying to figure out the behavior of a very close male friend at the time. Each of those behaviors fit him perfectly- I tried so hard to so long to convince him I was on his side when he soured, or raged... and of course the next day I was Jesus Christ in his opinion, followed by Hitler the day after. It was amazing. He could fixate on something you said a month ago and build an entire delusion around it.%0D %0D I had to end the friendship becuase it was just too violent and frankly exhausting. I also understand BPD is very difficult to treat. %0D %0D I feel very badly for my friend. He is (was) miserable much of the time. In many ways very gifted, extremely good looking, very smart- but due to his disorder constantly sabatoging himself in every way, work, friendships, relationships of all kinds. I suspect at this point he is still going through people at a clip- or quite alone- because no one can manage his behavior.
charlie
R65, You are correct that those who have Anti-Social Personality Disorder are said to be without conscience. Not so Narcissistic PD.
Frankly, I think if you were able to check you''d find that a great many people in the entertainment industry have serious personality disorders. The industry attracts people who for whatever reason are unable to make it in the real world and find being in the make believe world of show business where people they don''t even know idolize them a place they can get by in.
My husband of course was affected by his mother''s outbursts and emotional ups and downs. Who wouldn''t be, but he is very stable, generous and a real family man. Looking back he could have been more emotionally demonstrative true and he can be very stubborn. I always felt like we sort of made up for the each others weaknesses. I was the loving and flexible one, while he did all the paper work. I hate that part so much! But really he is the most responsible and dependable person I have ever met. He sits with the girls to do all their homework. Okay so he didn''t kiss on the girls, but he showed his love by providing and always being there. Like I said previously, he did spank our daughter, but just a few times. I would never have put up with him if I thought he was abusive. Though, I would say it is best never to spank, because those who may be genetically predisposed to bpd internalize it differently, even if it is just once.
"Kiss on the girls"%0D\ %0D\ Your choice of words is very curious.%0D\ %0D\ "I hate that part so much!"%0D\ %0D\ Oh, it sounds like it. Exclamation point and all!!!%0D\ %0D\ Thanks again for sharing your story and taking great pains to let a group of people know that in no way are you are your husband responsible for the daughter you raised turning into a borderline. I hope for her sake she gets away from you both and your need to have an identified patient other than yourselves.%0D\ %0D\ What do you do for a living, r81? I know that you needed, for the child''s sake of course, to take off 13 years from holding down any sort of job, but what do you do now for work?
I sense some hostility.
Siggie
I don''t understand your hostility. I sense you may have some serious anger management issues. You asked for my insight on the issue and I simply gave it to you. You may benefit from some therapy yourself. Good Luck.
[quote]I don''t think this is a real disorder. It just sounds the way someone who came from an unstable, unloving background would respond to life events if they haven''t healed from their traumas.\ \ Perhaps the illness is WHY they haven''t healed.
[quote]I sense you may have some serious anger management issues. You asked for my insight on the issue and I simply gave it to you. You may benefit from some therapy yourself. Good Luck.%0D\ %0D\ %0D\ Whenever a borderline is asked questions and does not want to give answers, they will deflect and advise the person who is asking to "seek help" as they "obviously have issues."%0D\ %0D\ I think we have a good idea how daughter became borderline. I''ll bet she can see right through mother dearest and mother dearest wouldn''t stand for that.
She''s Borderline & Bipolar - that''s the way it looks to me. I don''t know if her father is in her life, but she needs him, like BS needed her father to take care of her. LL needs her father to take care of her.
R79, people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder can lack empathy to a marked degree. So-called ''malignant narcissists'' have traits in common with people with Antisocial Personality Disorder, and indeed NPD is often comorbid with Antisocial Personality Disorder and other personality disorders (it is not at all uncommon for someone to be diagnosed with more than one personality disorder).%0D\ %0D\ It may be more illuminating to think of these conditions not as discrete diagnostic entities but as a spectrum: in terms of cluster B personality disorders, Antisocial Personality Disorder represents the least functional end of this spectrum, and there is often a sort of blurring between low-functioning narcissists and people with Antisocial Personality Disorder.
It''s time for Liny Lowhand to shut up and leave public life permanently. Her talents are minimal, and she certainly will not be missed.
Sick the the youth generation
Lohan has got acting talent, but I am so damn sick of her.
She cannot get a proper axis 2 diagnosis until she''s been off the drugs for at least one year (better with two years).\ \ Right now, we can agree she''s an addict and take it from there.
I''ve been a carer for a number of folks who later got a BPD diagnosis.\ \ I''ve always had a hunch BPD is actually a form of Post Traumatic Stress that started in early childhood. If you think about it a lot of the behaviors are really how a child might cope with overwhelming anxiety. They''d be frantically seeking out someone to protect them, having temper tantrums, stealing, self harming, over/under eating etc. By the time they reach adulthood the anxiety and inappropriate coping behaviors are an ingrained part of their personality. \ \ Adults who suffer PTS know there is something wrong with them.
R88, of course if you are talking degrees. In fact, people in all categories can exhibit a lack of empathy, especially when the ego is threatened, which is common.
R92 it is largely accepted that BDP develops from trauma in childhood, usually around issues of separation and attachment, and/or abandonment; real or imagined.
Long term drug and alcohol abuse.
Personality disorder or just a girl who grew up with a stage mother who used her as the family breadwinnner and never mothered her because she wanted to be her daughter''s bff instead. She was never told no and had everything handed to her so she has serious entitlement issues hence the stealing. I suspect that Dina supplies her with alcohol and does drugs with her. If Dina had instilled some discipline into her and made her study and finish school then it might be a different story.
[quote]She was never told no and had everything handed to her so she has serious entitlement issues hence the stealing.%0D\ %0D\ If Lindsay Lohan suffers from an impulse-control disorder the stealing is not driven by a sense of entitlement or desire for personal/monetary gain.%0D\ %0D\ If she feels compelled to shoplift or steal items of monetary value, that could possibly indicate some form of obsessive-compulsive disorder. Recent research indicates that compulsive stealing is more accurately described as an addictive behavior which would be consistent with what we know of Lindsay Lohan''s history of substance abuse.
Looks like the bitch could be going back to jail. She shows all the signs of bpd-the lying, manipulations, never taking responsibility and her stalking of Samantha Ronson.
Yes, absolutely. My partner has BPD, and has had extensive treatment including Dialectical Behavioral Therapy for 1 year and individual counseling. I wish Lohan could find a great BPD therapist. There are, as of yet, few in the United states that understand how to deal with it. I believe if she is not lead that way, she'll be dead within the year. I don't think she is just "acting out" because she wants to be this way. She is textbook BPD, and I hope she gets help. It is not "curable" but it is treatable, and my partner's life has much improved since her treatment
DBT Advocate
We've been talking about Lohan "being dead within a year" for quite a while now. She just won't go.