There are some rumors that Germany may announce tomorrow that it is abandoning the Euro and reintroducing the Deutsch Mark.\
Anyone in European finance who can confirm or deny?
Why don''t you ask the person that told you the rumor?
the Bismarck ?\
Didn''t it sink already ?
where did you hear the rumor, op?
EA = resident Ron Paul nut.
Not a chance. Germany is the Euro now. Without Germany it''s worth less than a bottle deposit.
No, R4, it''s on a number of blogs right now, and I was curious if anyone else could shed some light.
Probably some fringe blogs.\
Give us a link, if you dare.
I don''t think the German government would have loaned billions to the Greeks to save the Greek economy from collapse if they were planning to quit the euro, considering how contraversial the plan was in Germany.
It is too late for them to return to the Mark.
Is that even possible? Can a member of the EU simply turn its back on the euro unilaterally just like that without formally leaving the union?
The rumor is coming from a Glenn Beckesque website kitco.com, held aloft on the internets by numerous Ron Paul devotees. Consider the source.
Germany is an export-based economy. The Euro would sink without Germany, and no one outside of Germany would then be able to afford their export products.
I heard it''s going back to the Reichsmark.
I guess we''ll know tomorrow, if the make the announcement.
Margaret Thatcher is laughing (even though she''s senile).
Why would they bail out Greece and THEN drop out of the Euro.
Trust me, modern Greece is already a German colony, anyway.
Greek, German, and American
[bold]OMG LIQUIDATE YOUR 401K AND BUY GOLD!! DO IT!! NOW!!![/bold]
r13 has it.
Germany and France are the heart of the EU and Euro - they are ride or die with the Euro no way are they going back.
EA once again demonstrates a fundamental lack of realism.
[quote]Germany may announce \
For technical reasons alone it is impossible. Germany, or rather the German government, has no authority to announce that kind of action. It would be a decision that needs to come from the Bundestag, Germany''s legislative branch. \
Also, Germans pride themselves to be "Europe''s engine", economically and politically, along with France. There is no way that they abandon that philosophy at this point. There is not even a minority in Germany that considers abandoning the Euro.
The other thing to consider is that Germany''s economy is driven by exports. A declining Euro actually works out quite well for most of their major companies.\
Besides, compared to what they''ve spent on East Germany over the last 20 years this is petty cash.
This would be a good response to Greece refusing to deal with it''s debt, because Spain is up next and that is one serious debt problem.
That''s a rumor to discredit Germany, the Euro and the European Union.\
Why would Germany go solo all of a sudden? Germany has the rest of Europe in the palm of its hand and can decide how weak or strong the Euro is supposed to be.
If Germany was smart, it would go it alone.%0D\
Something BIG is coming down the pike, and it isn''t going to be pretty.%0D\
My advice? Get out while you can.
[quote]Here''s the article from Der Spiegel.\
Which of course says absolutely nothing whatsoever about Germany''s views on the financial crisis relative to the Deutsche Mark.
The Euro has hurt all citizens of the countries that adopted the Euro. The switch to the Euro inflated prices compared to the old currencies. The Euro remains inflated and is doomed to fall drastically.
Look for a lot of goofy stuff like this in the coming weeks.
[quote] considering how contraversial the plan was\
The USA Dollar and Euro are both collapsing. Your only currency options are Aus$ or Can$ and there are not many of those in the world to buy. Gold is already over sold.\
When the day comes, 40 trillion dollars will suddenly start looking for a new home within seconds, but nobody can provide one. The world is going to have to accept a huge loss of wealth.
Seven billion people and an extra forty-trillion burning a hole, and nobody really understands how it works. Do we like to live on the edge or whut!?
Europe was so much more interesting with each country having its own currency.
How would we know OP?\
We gays only have connections to the entertainment industry. Politics and economics are the exclusive domain of breeders, and we''re not allowed to venture there.
The basic reason Europe went Euro was to compete with/destroy the US economically. Once they felt safe with the Russians, we became the target. This is because they genuinely believe they should be running the world, not the ill-mannered upstarts over here. %0D\
Now .. they''re not so sure. When this European monstrosity falls apart, it is going to be really, really ugly. But probably better in the long run. Well, until the Chinese take over, of course.
When (not if) the euro falls apart, it''s going to be an epic shitstorm of pointed fingers. I wouldn''t rule out WW3.
R43 Make a note somebody. This time we stay out of it.
R44, I don''t WANT a WW3, but TPTB that have been raping our financial system and taken total control of our governments will stop at nothing to make sure their gravy train continues. If that means slaughtering a few hundred million innocent people, then so be it.\
Until people wake up to the fact that our political system is designed only to help the rich and quit supporting "their team" -be it Rep or Dem- and get rid of the whole system, we will continue our slide into slavery.
Well said R45. \
It is all theatre designed to distract us while they rob us blind.
r12 links to a 2010 rumor = complete idiot\
Everyone knows Ambrose Evans-Pritchard from the Telegraph is the place to go for all your financial armageddon news.
The OP was from 2010, so the article at R12 was current at the time. \
The death of the euro seems more certain each day since bailing out the PIGS+France would fall solely on the Germans, and they would revolt if their government tries to make them pay.
Another day, another rout in the stock market.
Just look how long it has taken for the world to realize that the Euro can''t work. It''s almost as if the bankers awoke in the middle of the night and realized their country can''t print money anymore. Alors!
If the Euro collapses the world will flood to the Yuan, not the US dollar.
No, Germany won''t return to the Mark.
The Euro and the European Union was a stupid idea to begin with.
I go to Germany every August. Those guys have HUGE boners--I mean, sausage to die for. I pay in euros for the bj''s.%0D\
Does this mean I should bring cash? Should I cancel my trip? Should I start eating pussy?%0D\
Help. What should I do?
Think about it from the point of view of the average West German. You''ve spent the last 20 years and untold billions to bring the former East Germany into the fold. That money just never stopped flowing to the East. Now you''re being asked to shovel another gigantic shitload of money out the door to prop up the weak EU countries. \
If any country has the right to riot and form tea parties it''s probably Germany, but the average German just grumbles a little and keeps on paying some of the highest tax rates in Europe.
Actually, Germany already has a version of the Tea Party that wants out of the euro.
Certain countries will be kicked out of the Euro instead (Greece, Italy). \
They can''t kick out Spain, they need it for the coolness factor.
The Euro was never intended to "destroy" the dollar but to bring all Europe to Germany''s standard eventually. Europe never wanted to be the world''s reserve currency because it hurt Britain when the pound was; and it hurts the USA that the dollar is.%0D
[quote] The USA Dollar and Euro are both collapsing. Your only currency options are Aus$ or Can$ and there are not many of those in the world to buy. Gold is already over sold.\
Canada is dependent on the US economy - if the dollar bombs, the Can dollar is sure to follow.
Most Americans don''r realize that the Canadian Dollar is actually worth MORE than the US. It used to be about 50% at the lowest point around a decade ago and now it is above parity with the US dfollar, reaching 1.06 $US .\
We now call the greenback the "American Peso"
[quote]The USA Dollar and Euro are both collapsing. Your only currency options are Aus$ or Can$ and there are not many of those in the world to buy. Gold is already over sold.\
Germany is balking on saving the euro. It''s toast- long live the DM!
R61, the Swiss Franc is a small currency, and if everyone decided to buy them, it would go to F100/$ and F200/euro. That would make many Swiss rich, able to buy imports, but devastate exports. \
Such is the fate of all fiat money.
I think Germany should return to the mark if it took off before the starting whistle was sounded.
The sooner the EU comes apart the better. The people didn''t want it.
Even though the majority of the members of the gov''t coalitions in Germany support the euro (and the bailout of the PIIGS+France) when Merkel gets sacked next month they will change their tune post-haste. Politicians can smell the blood in the water, and don''t want to lose power. The political realignment within Germany (spurred by the Wutburger, aka Angry Citizen movement, Germany''s own version of the Tea Party) in the elections next month will be historic.
WOW, this is really going to happen.
I knew it was just a matter of time. The euro was doomed from the start, and the end will be...tumultuous. To say the least.
[quote]Ambrose Evans-Pritchard has the most negative take on the recent vote in the Parliament. If his interpretation is accurate, the EU may indeed be doomed and rumors of the Germans printing up d-marks may indeed be very accurate. Here's Pritchard:
more at link-
Not only did Germany create the Euro, but the old claim for German financial rectitude is quite exploded now. In their Russian loans, the Germans were as stupid as any New York mortgage banker. So NO, they will not get rid of the Euro. France is actually in better shape than they are.
The German BANKS are in bad shape- the Germans are OK.
France is the big basket case no one wants to talk about.
I just did a troll-dar on myself, and I posted at R30 back in August that the euro was on the way out.
I knew I had seen this thread before.
I'm glad Britain didn't join the Euro, we're in the shit too, but bloody hell we'd be totally fucked had we joined the Euro.
Germany needs to return to the Mark ASAP or the rest of Europe will bring it down. If Germany and the UK are free and clear, France will also break free. These 3 can save the Eurozone.
Italy and Greece be damned.
Spain will survive better as Euro free too, but it will take longer. Spain is driven by a national internal strength Italy and Greece don't have.
The coming Greek default will make this a big election issue in Germany.
Britain stayed out of the Euro to placate the USA - aka not threaten the US currency which retains most of it's value because of that. The UK actually thought the Euro was a good thing at the time.
What will happen to countries like Greece and Spain if they get dumped from the euro? I cannot imagine them just accepting the fact that they will be financially ruined, but I suppose they do not have the funds to wage a war over it, right?
Spain will survive - they are an exceptionally strong nation of souls.
Greece and Italy need a reality check and a massive change in governance. Financial collapse would be a positive and cleansing process for these two countries.
Merkel all but said that the DM was returning in her speech at the G20 today.
They euro is dead.
Looks like Margaret Thatcher was right about some things. All the European countries rushed into adopting the Euro as the new fad without thinking about any of the economic consequences to their own countries.
G20 was last week, Libertarian Idiot Troll R78. Not today.
Moron at r79, do you know what the word "troll" means?
Clue: it's not a catch-all term for anyone who disagrees with you about anything.
Sure, the euro is just FINE!
[quote]Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union party wants to make it possible for European Union members to exit the euro area, Handelsblatt reported in a preview of an article to be published tomorrow, citing unnamed participants in the discussion.
[quote]A commission within the party, that is crafting a framework to be presented at a party meeting, has proposed allowing a euro member who doesn’t want to or isn’t able to comply with the common currency rules to leave the euro region without losing membership in the EU, the newspaper said.
[quote]If anyone needed the proper epitaph for the insane stupidity out of Europe, Reuters may have just provided it. In an exclusive article, Reuters stuns us with the following: "German and French officials have discussed plans for a radical overhaul of the European Union that would involve establishing a more integrated and potentially smaller euro zone, EU sources say. French President Nicolas Sarkozy gave some flavour of his thinking during an address to students in the eastern French city of Strasbourg on Tuesday, when he said a two-speed Europe -- the euro zone moving ahead more rapidly than all 27 countries in the EU -- was the only model for the future." It gets much worse: "The discussions among senior policymakers in Paris, Berlin and Brussels go further, raising the possibility of one or more countries leaving the euro zone, while the remaining core pushes on towards deeper economic integration, including on tax and fiscal policy." Not sure how to further clarify this: Europe is preparing for its own end, and the dissolution of the existing structure of the Eurozone, which likely means an end to the EU in its current format, a reshaping of the customs union, and the overhaul of the zEURq.PK in its current form. Ironically, this may end up being favorable for the Euro... and detrimental for Germany. So the question is: will Germany go for it? At this point, it probably has no choice, unless it wants a mutiny on its hands.
So, if you think that it is "libertarian crazy" that is causing this, then you need to up your meds.
Germany was talking about the scenario back in the summer. The Greece fiasco has the discussion going again.
Greece is no longer the issue. Shit, it never was the main issue. The fall of Italy is what has them scared- it's the 1.9T in Italian unsecured debt that the banks (UK, EU and US) hold that has forced the issue. The ECB/EFSF/ESM can't save failures of that magnitude.
If Greece fell, it would be a ripple. The problem is that once they fall then Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland will be right behind them. Those cross-defaults will bring down many US, Japanese and Chinese banks along with the 99% of the banks in the EU.
History was made today. How it plays out is murky...
That's an interesting article, R81. However, at least they are realizing that the EU is not sustainable in its current form. I wish someone would say the same about the US.
The Euro was a greedy experiment that has failed. It has failed and if they don't exit it now, they just have to go through the same thing in another while, then again after that and so on.
It's not that much debt. What a bunch of stupid little crazies you are. If Europe were really on the brink of collapse would the Euro be trading at such a premium to the dollar?
People like R86 scare me. They have no concept of sovereign debt, structural spending requirements, interest payments, limits of taxation, rising bond yields...yet they feel the need to show their ignorance.
Italy's debt is under $2 trillion, less in proportion to the population, than ours. And their population is much less indebted than the $50 trillion plus our population owes.
Get a grip on your stupid self. The only reason for this entire crisis is the unwillingness of people to tax the rich.
Tax the rich and *boom* it's manageable.
France is in far better fiscal shape than the US and people are retiring at 60 there. That may not be sustainable but really it's all about breaking through the hysteria and bullshit of those who want to pauperize the middle classes in order to establish a transnational plutocracy of criminals in control fo the world.
If the Germans were going to exit, they would need to do it slowly, starting with something like this.
Are things fixed in Greece?
I hope the idiot Libertarian twats lose their shirts hoarding gold bullion and irradiated seeds.
I'll bet R88 feels like a moron- France took his advice and now all the rich are moving out of the country and selling their homes cheap.
Only if Mark is heterosexual. The current ruling party in Germany (the CDU) does not like gays.
Fine R92, it won't hurt France at all. Hope they all go.
Credit expansion is the governments foremost tool in their struggle against the market economy. In their hands it is the magic wand designed to conjure away the scarcity of capital goods, to lower the rate of interest or to abolish it altogether, to finance lavish government spending, to expropriate the capitalists, to contrive everlasting booms, and to make everybody prosperous.
"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
This first stage of the inflationary process may last for many years. While it lasts, the prices of many goods and services are not yet adjusted to the altered money relation. There are still people in the country who have not yet become aware of the fact that they are confronted with a price revolution which will finally result in a considerable rise of all prices, although the extent of this rise will not be the same in the various commodities and services. These people still believe that prices one day will drop. Waiting for this day, they restrict their purchases and concomitantly increase their cash holdings. As long as such ideas are still held by public opinion, it is not yet too late for the government to abandon its inflationary policy.
But then, finally, the masses wake up. They become suddenly aware of the fact that inflation is a deliberate policy and will go on endlessly. A breakdown occurs. The crack-up boom appears. Everybody is anxious to swap his money against 'real' goods, no matter whether he needs them or not, no matter how much money he has to pay for them. Within a very short time, within a few weeks or even days, the things which were used as money are no longer used as media of exchange. They become scrap paper. Nobody wants to give away anything against them.
It was this that happened with the Continental currency in America in 1781, with the French mandats territoriaux in 1796, and with the German mark in 1923. It will happen again whenever the same conditions appear. If a thing has to be used as a medium of exchange, public opinion must not believe that the quantity of this thing will increase beyond all bounds. Inflation is a policy that cannot last.