- The vagina I was dead set to conquer.
George (Facts of LIfe redux) Clooney, current Movie Star
- Becky became a dumb blonde when Chalke took over the role. It is like they forgot that one of the reasons Mark was wrong for her was her hoped for bright future due to her intelligence.
- Jackie was a closeted lesbian and more than slightly flakey. Is that an answer?
- The changing grandparent stories are the worst inconsistencies. Roseanne''s parents started out as average grandparents; her father was long-suffering and her mother annoying. \
Then the series had to become relevant. Then Dad became an abuser and the mother an ennabler who didn''t defend the girls. And along the way Bev had to get stranger and stranger.\
Dan''s mother was perfectly normal at first. She was divorced from her husband and she had a new relationship. Then at the end she goes crazy and her ex-husband is supposedly not helping her and then it turns out he''s been helping her. More drama that has more to do with getting Emmy nominations.
- This "way too hot" shit has got to stop.\
Especially since it''s voiced by the same people who constantly remark that someone is "way too hot" for the person he/she is dating in real life.\
Hey, it happens. Often.
- Bush family inconsistency.\
George Sr. was way too hot for Barbara.\
- It wasn''t that he was way-too-hot that was the inconsistency. He was just way-too-stupid for her.
- Bev''s drinking. Was she an alcoholic or wasn''t she? In one episode, she portrays the zeal of the newly converted to a 12-step program.\
Subsequent episodes later on show her drinking wine.
- Two DJs, two Beckys and two Audreys (Dan''s mom.)
- How about the biggest inconsistency of all which is the character of Roseanne Connor!!!!! In the first few seasons (the best) she is a HARD-WORKING and CARING mother who wants the best for her family. Then she goes to work at the diner and suddenly becomes lazy?? The woman who fought for other women at Wellman and then swept hair in a salon suddenly has no work ethic?? Soon after that, she spends all her time denigrating her children and husband and shows no love whatsoever.
- [quote]Dan''s mother was perfectly normal at first.\
Played the fabulous and underrated Ann Wedgeworth.\
So much better than sad old Debbie Reynolds.
- I agree. The ''way too hot'' thing is ridiculous. Just because you don''t ''get it'', doesn''t mean it doesn''t happen. I''ve been in relationships with guys that most would say were ''way too hot'' for me but I just happen to be the type of guy the ''way too hot'' guy likes. Just because someone isn''t your type, it doesn''t make them undesirable or not hot to someone else. And I don''t think Mark was too stupid for Becky either. I''ve known smart guys and smart women that like their men pretty and not so smart. Like R5 said. It happens. Often.
- Kevin Healy vs. David Healy.\
I wasn''t too crazy about the last two seasons, but did like the fight between Dan and Roseanne at the end of the penultimate season. It encapsulated the entire show to that point; their frustrations and their anger as all the years of disappointment boiled over.\
Also, Dan and Roseanne were much "wackier" parents in the first season, always laughing at each other and making jokes. I preferred how they both evolved. Roseanne''s sarcasm was better than her "cutesy" moments with Dan''s boxer shorts.
- Let''s not forget that Mark wasn''t an idiot at first. He just wasn''t a desirable mate for Becky.\
That said, Glenn Quinn looks to be having a blast the dumber they made Mark. There are a few times where you can see him turn his head as he''s laughing.
- Two DJs?\
I wasn''t aware of that.
- Roseanne''s character wasn''t just inconsistent because of the laziness thing. Her character changed as Roseanne the actress changed. When she was frumpy her character was real and funny. But when the actress starting getting plastic surgery and became more Hollywood-ized, her character totally changed - it was like 2 different sitcoms and very bizarre.
- The pilot had a different DJ.
- Remember that one summer she had that major overhaul. She left that season looking like a chubby Jewish broad then came back in the fall looking like a slimmed down Native American.
- Roseanne''s surgery for season six, coupled with the dyed black hair, made my bf at the time comment that she looked like an eskimo.
- I write off the awful Debbie Reynolds episode as part of the terrible "dream season."
- The show became unwatchable about a year after the loose meat diner came into play. Roseanne began to believe her own publicity and decided she was The Voice of Every Woman when she was obviously not. I was actually somewhat surprised they never did a plotline where Dan was abusive to her.\
She lost me as a fan when they won the lottery and that stupid season where they did the Gilligan''s Island parody. Then she decided every episode had to be profound and meaningful. The show turned into a steaming pile of shit.
- Wasn''t the first DJ fired because Roseanne hated him for some reason? And another cast member actually had a fight with him?
- The first DJ and Sara Gilbert didn''t get along, so the parents took him out.\
There were a couple of things that bothered me about the last couple of seasons. For instance, in the Walt Disney episode, Roseanne slaps Galecki across the face for getting too excited. I always thought that was kind of tasteless given how the show made a big deal out of both characters coming from abusive homes.\
Also, the kids were pretty much called considered failures by both Jackie and Dann in two different episodes. \
It saddened me to see such a great show become so mean spirited and humorless.
- R22, I read it was Sara Gilbert that Sal Barone (pilot DJ) didn''t get along with. If you watch the opening credits for the pilot, Gilbert really pushes him hard into a wall. She probably enjoyed that.\
Michael Fishman was a pretty mediocre actor at best but he did look like he could have been Roseanne''s son.
- The kids were failures, a fact that I kind of liked considering how many sitcom kids are all so perfect. Becky went from being an A student to eloping and living in a trailer park. Darlene had a promising graphic arts career but she got pregnant and married David.\
And DJ was just weird.
- The Disney episodes are not continuity for me (even though apparently Darlene''s baby was conceived there) because it was a ploy by ABC to publicize the parks on its shows.\
Even the dialogue is awful as it''s more about promoting the parks. (The worst offender is the Spaceship Earth scene where a woman starts spouting off statistics about it to Dan.)
- I''m pretty sure Roseanne was wearing a wig around seasons 5-6.
- [quote]Bev''s drinking. Was she an alcoholic or wasn''t she? In one episode, she portrays the zeal of the newly converted to a 12-step program.\
It was established by Roseanne at the end of that episode that she was not an alcoholic. Bev just got off on the control that she had over everyone by being an "alcoholic" in recovery.
- Did anyone on this thread actually watch the show to the end?\
OP, if you think Mark and Becki were implausible, what about ugly Darlene and super hot Mark? It was revealed, on the final show, that the series had all been a creation of Roseanne''s character, who started writing after Dan died. The "lottery" part of the show was the part where Roseanne actually lost Dan and was grieving.\
In "reality", Jackie was a lesbian. Mark was with Darlene, and Becki was with David. I know- ridiculous.
- After the fifth season the show seemed to turn into a forum for Roseanne to try her hand at playing whatever she wanted to from week to week. It stopped telling Roseanne Conner's story and starting serving Roseanne the actress and her agenda. Episodes began to feel wildly inconsistent and excellent performers like Goodman, Metcalf and Parsons devolved into caricature, which was a shame because in its early seasons Roseanne really was an incredible example of what could be done within the family sitcom genre.
Personally, I never had a problem with Roseanne's diminishing work ethic and increased surliness when she went to go work at Rodbell's diner. One thing those early seasons did was provide an honest and clear-eyed account of the tolls the system took on working class people and families. I felt like I understood Roseanne's growing resentment of having to live a life that was valued at eight dollars an hour.
I hated that the show upped the terrible parent factor with Roseanne's mom and dad in the later seasons. Again, I felt like you could understand why Roseanne and Jackie had the issues that they did because their parents were dysfunctional in the way that "normal" people are dysfunctional (he was disinterested and boorish, she was passive aggressive and suffocating). It's like the show didn't trust the audience to understand that you can be annoyed, hurt and angered by your parents without them being abusive (something it seemed to understand in the early seasons). I always wondered if that particular story line was a way for Roseanne to exorcise some of the demons from her own abusive childhood.
- I only vaguely watched the show occasionally and never got to into it, but did the last episode reveal that the WHOLE show had been in Roseanne''s mind of that the LAST SEASON had been in Roseanne''s mind. This thread has me confused.
The daughter''s hot husband who killed himself.
- It''s a fictional show. It doesn''t have to be consistent.
- R31- yup.\
Roseanne became a writer after Dan had his heart attack and died. She wrote about their family, but fictionalized certain parts. As her character explains it on the last show, she''d always felt that Becki should be with Mark, and Darlene with David, so she switched the couples around in her writing. The whole show was Roseanne''s story, as it was written after Dan died. I don''t remember why she changed Jackie''s character- I don''t think it was explained.
- Oh...and I should add...the lottery part was all completely fictionalized by Roseanne, because she couldn''t write about Dan''s death- it was too painful for her.
- Yes, R30, the later years were all for the benefit of Roseanne the actress working on her demons. She had abusive parents so the parents on the show had to be abusive. And in the process the characters, as another poster noted, just became caricatures. \
The first seasons worked better because Roseanne, the amateur, surrounded herself with really talented actors like Goodman, Metcalf, and the Oscar duo of Parsons and Winters. (Shelly Winters role fit her to a t and she was wonderful.) And Roseanne became a better actress because of them.\
It may be fiction and, therefore, doesn''t need to be consistent. But the quality of the writing dipped precariously from the great quality of earlier seasons to a total mess.
- I have always thought that the show lost quality when Tom Arnold and Roseanne broke up. He may be a crazy SOB, but he brought out the best in Roseanne the character and Roseanne the performer. I leave what he brought out in Roseanne the human being for another thread. I think Arnold must have had a hand in keeping the stories well rounded and focused on the Conner family. After their split Roseanne had no one else to push back against her and she ran creatively free. \
The changing storyline of Roseanne’s father is a fair critique, but I have met families that later came out with stories of abuse that I would never have suspected. His later portrayal as an abuser could be seen as the same guy at the Thanksgiving table. I don’t think he appeared on the show more than that one time, did he? And if he had not been made an abuser we would not have gotten the episode where he died and his funeral. That was a great episode for Roseanne, performer and character.
- The rape episode where Roseanne got pregnant from the rapist and decided to have an abortion without telling Dan didn''t connect with her calling Jackie a selfish whore later in the season for wanting to abort her fetus when she thought it had Down syndrome. Of course she miscarried and told Roseanne she had decided to keep it before the miscarriage (I thought having it happen in a car wreck was unnecessary, because of the suggestion she had been drinking - remember the line about what harm could her drinking do since the kid already was retarded?) but you just knew she was just saying that.
- Not a continuity issue, but for me the worst episode of all was the musical episode that was Roseanne''s dream sequence. Horrible, horrible writing, nothing funny or interesting.
- [quote] Um, "Mark", Becky''s boyfriend, was waaayy to hot for Becky. Shit he was too hot for the 2nd Becky.\
I think Sarah Chalke is really pretty.\
Roseanne on the other hand changed way too much over the years. When she started out she was practically a "person of Wal-Mart" but got A LOT better looking as the show went on.
- was the post heart attack fight real or did dan actually die at the wedding?
- [quote]did dan actually die at the wedding?\
My career did.
J. Goodman (are you gonna eat that pork?)
- Apparently Dan died at the wedding. Though the "all from Roseanne''s writing" ending never really jibed for me. If Darlene was really with Mark does that mean SHE ran off at an even younger age and got married? If Jackie was really a lesbian were all her boyfriends just fictional? How did she have her baby with Fred then?
- How do you get into the basement? In some episodes there seems to be access through the kitchen. In others, it looks like they go through the laundry room (or outside).
- [quote]The Disney episodes are not continuity for me (even though apparently Darlene''s baby was conceived there) because it was a ploy by ABC to publicize the parks on its shows.\
You miss the point. At the time, Disney was practically forcing every ABC show to do a "Very Special Episode" where the characters visited a Disney Theme Park.\
Most of these VSE''s were crap, but they accomplished Disney''s intent of trying to create some synergy between TV and the parks.\
But, in Roseanne''s VSE, the family doesn''t stay together and have a wonderful time. They split up the minute they get in. The "cheerful" park employees are annoying fascists. Dan spends the day drinking his way through EPCOT. Darlene and David fuck on one of the rides. Becky tries to pick up a costumed character.\
I can just see Roseanne (the actress) thinking: "They want an episode at Disney World? I''ll GIVE them an episode at Disney World."\
The whole thing is fucking brilliant!
- I have to agree with Enid. Having worked at universal and Magic Mtn when I was younger, Roseanne really did do a job on that whole "this is the most wonderful place on Earth" shit those corporate fascists try and ram down everyone''s throat.
- That''s funny, R44. I wish I could rewatch that episode now.\
I missed the final episode. Was it awful or well received? From the synopsis posted here, it sounds awful, almost as if the viewer had been cheated all those years of watching the show. How did the viewers react at the time?
- [quote] I missed the final episode. Was it awful or well received? From the synopsis posted here, it sounds awful, almost as if the viewer had been cheated all those years of watching the show. How did the viewers react at the time?\
I don''t remember the general consensus, but I loved the last fifteen minutes of the finale. I still start to cry a little when I see it in the reruns. Didn''t feel like a cheat at all, at least to me.
- Jackie has hauled meat and she has eaten meat.
- A little inconsistency, but it always drove me insane.\
I don''t remember the seasons, but in one episode Jackie claimed her favorite Beatle was Ringo; then, in a later episode, she compared something or someone to Ringo Starr in a derogatory way. Character inconsistency that Laurie Metcalf should have noticed.
- Gotta agree with those who say the show and characters "changed" midway though the series. I''m pinpointing it around halfway though Season 5. Of course this was also around the time Roseanne changed herself. Roseanne stopped being fun and just became a shrew and the harsh new look didn''t help either. And yes, all the supporting characters basically became caricatures, instead of the fully-developed characters they were in earlier seasons. Also I remember the show being overly focused on the David character in those years.\
The inconsistency that always bothered me the most was what they did to the Roseanne''s father. The cheating thing was bad enough, but then the abuse and him being such a monster was hard to believe.
- [quote]Jackie has hauled meat and she has eaten meat.\
Tureen of beef.
- The Pilot
- Dads Dead!!!!!
- He's fine. He sends his love.
- I remember reading an article about the show when it first started how groundbreaking it was to show low income people on tv. They spoke to the costumers who said they figured out how much the Connors would have to spend a year on clothing and then went to places like Kmart and Sears to get their clothing. That seemed to be the first thing to go out of the window once the show was a hit.
Also, it looked like they spent more on the Halloween decorations and costumes for those episodes than the family made in 6 months, but that's telelvision.
- John Goodman was kinda cute in the pilot.
- [quote]John Goodman was kinda cute in the pilot.
When he was young and fit, he did a ton of commercials.
- I don't remember Jackie being pregnant and that she thought about aborting it. Are you sure you are thinking of the right show?!!! I was a faithful watcher of the show and even still watch re-runs and have NEVER seen that episode!
- Jackie was outed by Roseanne as a lesbian in one of the final episodes.
- [quote] The rape episode where Roseanne got pregnant from the rapist and decided to have an abortion without telling Dan didn't connect with her calling Jackie a selfish whore later in the season for wanting to abort her fetus when she thought it had Down syndrome.
I don't remember either of these stories.
Hey, around 100 episodes (5 seasons) or so all shows start to suck and/or have inconsistencies, and this show seems to fall into that category. It was season 6 and after that they really started to reach for ideas.
- The change with Roseanne's father always bothered me the most, especially when you watch some of those earlier episodes when he actually appears. I mean it was clear that that development had nothing to do with character and all to do with Roseanne's personal life.
- I would also point out the huge change in tone of the show and of the Roseanne character after she got her plastic surgery.
And Jackie became a complete cartoon sidekick after about season 6.
- I thought it unbelieveable that guys would be interested in the homely, surly, very dykey-seeming Darlene. She might as well have had "LESBIAN" stamped on her forehead. She had no chemistry at all with Johnny Galecki; when they kissed it looked painfully fake. I have no idea why her character wasn't made a lesbian. There was a lot of gay characters on the show; why was Darlene made implausibly straight?
Darlene always seemed to want to break away from the type of life her parents had. She was supposed to be very smart. She waits a long time before finally sleeping with David. And she's so dumb and irresponsible that she doesn't use birth control? That seemed very unlike her. And she decides to keep the baby instead of getting an abortion? Darlene as a mother? The saga of Darlene and David was just plain ridiculous.
- Not continuity, but inconsistency. In earlier episodes, Roseanne and Dan are shown living a hand to mouth existence. The motorcycle shop isn't doing well, they're having a hard time with the utility bills, they have no money to send their smart daughters to college, etc. Then a couple of years later they decide to have another baby? OK. I stopped watching around this time. I don't even know if she had the baby on the show or if they were just trying...
- R64, it was weird because they wrote it into the show and then Roseanne got pregnant for real. She announced her pregnancy at the beginning of the 1994-95 season and didn't even have the baby until the (horrible) Halloween episode in 1995. It went on forever.
And then the baby barely figured into the storylines at all.
- Jackie was revealed to be gay? Was that in the final episode, when Roseanne's voiceover reveals that Becky had really been with David, and Darlene with Mark? Or an earlier episode?
- Turning Bev into a lesbian was the low point for me. And then she has Ruta Lee as her girlfriend.
- I quit watching the show after a few episodes into the second to last season because it had really jumped the shark. I tuned in for the series finale and couldn't believe how ridiculous it had gotten.
- [quote]Um, "Mark", Becky's boyfriend, was waaayy to hot for Becky.
How shallow are you?
The whole universe doesn't pair up entirely according to how hot two people are.
- [quote]Tureen of beef.
The funniest line from one of the funniest episodes.
- [quote] The whole show was Roseanne's story, as it was written after Dan died. I don't remember why she changed Jackie's character- I don't think it was explained.
Well the non-fiction reason is Roseanne wanted the Jackie character to be a lesbian, like her own lesbian sister, but the show's producer wouldn't let her. She hated his guts and got him fired at the first opportunity, after the show hit #1. He went on to produce Home Improvement.
- It was like at one point she decided to screw up all the characters. And it actaully happened quite early, though people usually only complain about the last 2 seasons. Early on, Dan and Roseanne always worked as a tandem, but then she suddenly became a lazy, agressive nightmare, and Dan a bumbling fool who she couldn't trust with anything. Becky turned into an airhead and Mark a total idiot. And of course, Darlene went from surly teenager to sociopath,and Jackie from neurotic to batshit crazy. Even David had a hint of a spine in his first season, before he moved in. No character stayed consistent in this mess of a show, they all devolved into caricatures. It got boring after that.
- Whatever its faults, it was one of the few sitcoms with any realism. Cardboard character sitcoms my be more "consistent", but they bore anyone with a brain.
- R72,characters can be consistent and not be cardboards. I don't see what the two things have to do with each other, really.
Anyway, what Roseanne did was turn relatable, realistic and engaging characters into one-note caricatures. They became not only different people from what they started as (inconsistency), but also much more boring and predictable (cardboard characterization). Up until then the show definitely was one of the most realistic ones on TV, but it became much more formulaic from then on. Which is not surprising, since you can only do so much with caricatures.
- The biggest joke about the "too hot" issue is that if you actually believe the final episode, Mark was with Darlene. Now THAT is ridiculous. No way Mark would have been with an ugly mean girl who had more testosterone than he did. At least the first Becky treated him sweetly when they first started dating. Darlene was just an ugly butch bitch. There would be nothing Mark could possibly see in her. But the final episode was an asshole episode anyway so I shouldn't get worked up over it. RIP, Glenn Quinn.
- Oops, obviously I meant to address R73.
Yeah, I agree, R75. The couples switcheroo made no sense whatsoever. Darlene and Mark together is just impossible. There's the looks issue, but also, what did they have in common? And why would Mark put up with that sociopath? It makes no sense, and Roseanne obviously did it just because she could.
- I've read that Roseanne Barr did those switcheroos in the last episode so ABC wouldn't make her have a reunion on down the road. It was a big "fuck you" to TPTB. I guess that is just an excuse to cover up for a really shitty last season.
I could tell that the Roseanne changed a lot by Season 5, and how the characters became caricatures of themselves and the show became a huge parody of itself. Roseanne and Tom Arnold managed to burn bridges and fire a lot of writers in Hollywood, so by the time the later seasons came around, they could only hire cheap writers who were starting their careers. The production costs were extremely high to pay for Roseanne's high salary (Laurie Metcalf and John Goodman were also paid very well, about 400-500K/episode), but the declining ratings of the show meant that ABC wasn't getting a return on their investment (advertisers weren't willing to pay top dollar for a show that was no longer top 5/10/20 and so on). It didn't help that Roseanne Barr began to incorporate too many elements of what her real life was becoming off-camera into the show.
- Pssssttt it was all make believe.
- The first couple of seasons were hilarious and realistic. Roseann and Dan were a constantly struggling (financially) couple who genuinely cared about each other and did not take any crap from their kids, which was refreshing. I don't know what happened but I eventually stopped watching it.
- Another unfortunate inconsistency: Mark appeared shirtless in only one episode.
Surprisingly nice nipples . . . delectably puffy, just begging to be sucked.
- This is soooooo personal, right r63? Please give us your evaluation of the inconsistencies on Gilligan's Island. I can't wait to hear your take on Skipper and Gilligan.
- Rules of a good sitcom:
First season very good
Second and third season excellent
Fourth season okay
Fifth season mediocre
- R82, I found the first season of "Roseanne" a bit too sitcommy. It built and I think the fourth and fifth seasons were the absolute best.
The episode that ends with Becky getting married is so well-structured, building up to an ending we didn't see coming: DJ on the phone chasing the creditors away, the kitchen table scene that ends with Becky running out of the room, the conversation between Becky and Darlene in the bedroom in the morning where Darlene tells Becky she's being selfish to have Mark trapped in the hellhole of Lanford, to the amazing kitchen confrontation Becky has with Dan and Roseanne that changes everything.
- A particular story inconsistency -
When Arnie first appears, it's stated that he was strictly a friend of Dan's who Roseanne did not really know, hence building an entire episode around the notion that he may have been coming on to her.
Fast forward to season 4 when Jackie sleeps with Arnie - Roseanne specifically says they all made a vow in HIGH SCHOOL never to have anything to do with him.
- R83, I agree with you on half of the shows from the first season -- that's because the jokes were from Roseanne's club act, and she was not an actor just a standup comic.
- Better inconsistency, r64: DJ was played by a different actor in the first episode.
Best inconsistency: David's name was originally Kevin.
Ther are always inconsistencies in sitcoms. Did you know that Rhoda referred to a brother in the MTM show that disappeared in the Rhoda sitcom? Her sister was Debbie on MTM. On Rhoda, Debbie was gone and there was Brenda.
- Excuse me, I meant R84.
- I still love this show. For me, and I'm sure Roseanne would hate to hear this, is during the years Tom Arnold was a producer and featured actor. They were way better than the preceeding years and the ones that followed. I guess the bullying and threats worked because the stories and scripts were incredible during those seasons. When I watch the show today, it's obvious even without seeing the credits, which episodes Arnold helped shape. Have I liked him anywhere else? NO!, but his contribution to the show, and his departure is what led to the inconsistency.
- I only like the early shows before they had Mark and David.
- [quote]Whatever its faults, it was one of the few sitcoms with any realism.
That was true until they won the lottery and not only stayed in Lanford, but stayed in the same shitty house. Yeah, very realistic.
- They didn't really win the lottery r90.
- What about when sleepy, suburban Lanford became a burgeoning gay Mecca? Martin Mull, Fred Willard, Sandra Bernhardt and Morgan Fairchild all played recurring gay characters. I appreciate the effort to provide visibility but it was all a bit much. Forced.
- R91 I know that.
- Agree with R65. Dan and Roseanne, by then in their forties, having already raised three children and struggling financially, would never have had another child.
For me, this was when the show jumped the shark. It soon completely unraveled.
- The show does not hold up well at all today. I looks VERY dated.
- There were two or three actors who played Crystal's son, Lonnie. The first boy was dark-haired and the last one was a blond.
- What ever happened to Crystal? Actually, what ever happened to most of Roseanne's friends on the show in the later seasons?
- [quote] The show does not hold up well at all today. I looks VERY dated.
They were poor. It looked dated when it was on, like All In The Family.
As everyone else has mentioned, I think the actual content was great for the first five seasons, not as much after that.
[quote] What ever happened to Crystal? Actually, what ever happened to most of Roseanne's friends on the show in the later seasons?
I think the show started becoming way more about Roseanne, obviously. Sandra B replaced the Crystal character. (Like Laurie Metcalf, Natalie West who played Crystal is in Chicago theater and a member of Steppenwolf.)
- LOVED CRYSTAL!!!
- I think roseanne had gone through alot of serious changes like a divorce and fighting with the writers so i think her style changed from sweet mom to kinda having a dark edge cuz she changed as the show got more popular
- I hated Crystal. She was annoying as fuck. She seemed special needs and why the hell did she have a southern accent.
- Joseph Gordon-Levitt played one of DJ's geeky pals.
- Sweet mom, R100??? What fucking show were you watching?
- [QUOTE]I hated Crystal. She was annoying as fuck. She seemed special needs and why the hell did she have a southern accent.
MY FATHER CAME FROM ARKANSAS!!!
- One of the biggest inconsistencies for me?
Lecy Goranson's acting.
The first few seasons she's on, she's fine. Then she disappears, gets replaced, comes back and all of a sudden whatever acting skills she had went to shit. She was literally painful to watch when she came back.
Always made me wondered what the hell happened to her during her time off from the show.
- Lecy always sucked, especially next to Sarah.
- Please! Sarahs' Becky sucked big balls. Her amteurish acting notwithstanding, her whiny, ditzy interpretation was an insult to what Becky originally was. And I hated how her scenes mostly consisted of her fighting with Mark or her dad and then storming up the stairs or into the next room or outside. Ugh!
- Lecy was never great, but she was certainly a hell of a lot better in earlier seasons than when she came back.
- Just read this. Thought it was interesting:
. As time went on, relations between Williams and Roseanne became even more heated and came to a head when she boycotted an episode over one line of dialogue. Of course, the show must go on, and this one did so with its star only appearing in the opening scene and the tag (wearing an armband in protest). That episode, "An Officer and a Gentleman," centered around an absent Roseanne and sister Jackie taking over the Conner household for a few days. It was so well-received that Williams asked Laurie Metcalf and John Goodman if they'd be willing to continue with the show if Roseanne suddenly"¦quit. Both actors refused and later reported the meeting to Ms. Barr, winning her loyalty and support for the rest of the series' run. Matt Williams left the show after the first season and went on to co-create the Tim Allen sitcom Home Improvement.
- "Nearly Identical Beckys" (starts at 1:04 after the Patty Duke Show intro):
- Didn't Sarah also play a woman who came to the Connor's house with her kids while they were trick or treating?
- OMG R110 - I'd never seen that before. Fab!
- Two additional things-even Roseanne's final monologue was inconsistent-part of the time it was written as the characters on the show were real, I.e. Dan dying, and then it would be as though all the characters were in only in the head of Roseanne, the writer, I.e. her "real sister" being lesbian-thus making Jackie a work of fiction.
Also,even though Dan didn't have sex with that nurse taking care of his mother, the fact that there was any type of romance between them was completely out of character for Dan--he adored Throughout the series-in fact when he thought he might die with the heart attack, he made it a point to tell her that he never even thought about cheating.on her.
Yes, it was a gag as Goranson was back on the show at that point.
- Yes, R105, in the Halloween episode the season when they brought Lecy back.
And then she played Becky again later that season in the Disneyworld episodes and by then, it was just getting confusing.
And then Lecy left again as the eighth season was supposed to be its final season and Lecy hadn't signed for a ninth.
- It was a mistake to bring Dawn Weiner on as DJ's girlfriend. Hell, that entire final season was a mistake.
The only thing about it I liked was Jackie confronting Dan about the nurse. Jackie wasn't overdoing it and Goodman did well, especially as the scene began with him razzing Jackie about the fact that she's wealthy now and still hangs around all the time.
- I did like the final episode of the penultimate season when Dan and Roseanne had the big blowup after the heart attack and years of resentment and anger came out. Roseanne even named all the jobs she'd had to take throughout the series.
It was a good episode.
- The kid that played DJ originally, was canned because they did the pilot and the writer's strike happened.
By the time it was over, the little kid grew up fast and was bigger than Darlene and Roseanne didn't like this.
As for the Kevin vs David thing, Roseanne explained it when she complained to Dan about Darlene controlling David to much...
"And his name isn't even David, Darlene just made that up."
I don't know if that was completely out of character. In the one of the earlier seasons, Dan goes out to lunch with... Phylis? An old high school flame and then proceeds to have sex with Roseanne while imagining it was the other woman.
- I should have said that I don't think my reply at R119 equates to cheating, but it shows that Dan was sort of weak when it came to getting attention from other women.
- [quote]One of the biggest inconsistencies for me? Lecy Goranson's acting. The first few seasons she's on, she's fine. Then she disappears, gets replaced, comes back and all of a sudden whatever acting skills she had went to shit. She was literally painful to watch when she came back.
This often happens with child actors. They have genuine acting talent and are unself-conscious, and are great on TV. Then as they age, they become very self-conscious and mannered and become horrible.
Currently this seems to be happening with the two little boys on "Moedrn Family," which was tragic because they were so wonderful the first year of the show.
- One thing I've always heard about this show/cast is that they were all very close and that the set wasn't dysfunctional like most others are.
Found this interview with a grown up DJ which supports that.
- "Sarahs' Becky sucked big balls."
R107, SARA GILBERT - DARLENE. Next to her, Lecy's Becky sucked. In fact, all of the Beckys sucked.
The Sarah reference was probably to Sarah Chalke, the 2nd Becky.
NOT to Sara Gilbert, who played Darlene.
- Well I'm right about SARA. She's exceptionally good in this show.
- r122, the cast members may have been close and had no problems among themselves, but there were enormous struggles and blowouts between Roseanne and various producers/writers/directors - I would definitely call it a dysfunctional set.
- Coming as late as this does in the series run, this is probably one of the best scenes. The acting, the pacing, the anger and the frustration of their marriage and family comes through.
- I thought it was hilarious that as the years went by Roseanne's face kept getting smoother and her hair kept getting straighter and darker. At the end of the show her hair was shoe polish black and her features had changed entirely.
- R128, you forgot her ever present tan in the later shows -- like she just vacationed in the Caribbean. Jackie and Bev got tans very late in the show. Everyone else, white as sheets.
- I thought Lecy Goranson was fantastic after the first few seasons when she started rebelling and became nasty to Roseanne. She really nailed that snarky, belligerent teen girl attitude. Sarah Chalke was way too shiny-happy people to work as Becky.
- [quote]I've read that Roseanne Barr did those switcheroos in the last episode so ABC wouldn't make her have a reunion on down the road. It was a big "fuck you" to TPTB. I guess that is just an excuse to cover up for a really shitty last season.
Roseanne was on Joy Behar's show last year, and attempted to defend the last season. She said that it was relevant today and she was ahead of her time and blah, blah, blah.
Anyhow, The NY Times did a profile of then-ABC president Jamie Tarses in 1997 (during Roseanne's last season), and one of the nuggets: Roseanne wanted to continue with the show. She proposed that Roseanne Conner was going to move to Vegas and be a maid at a hotel. But everyone at ABC was sick of dealing with Roseanne and the show's ratings were in the toilet, so they intentionally gave a real low-ball offer, so that she would pass.
What's more interesting is that it was common knowledge with ABC Execs that Drew Carey was worse to deal with than Roseanne ever was, but they kept letting him get away with that kind of shit for years.
- Can someone start a "Grace Under Fire" thread so we can talk about the drama on that show as well?
- "I did like the final episode of the penultimate season when Dan and Roseanne had the big blowup after the heart attack and years of resentment and anger came out. Roseanne even named all the jobs she'd had to take throughout the series."
That scene, once and for all, expressed the REALITY of Dan and Roseanne: two fat losers in a wretched marriage who produced a bunch of other losers. What they were saying to each other was the absolute truth.
And the next season started out with them winning the lottery and everything was pure fun and games from then on. Godawful!
- R127, that fight scene was like a throwback to the one in "Canoga Time" from Season 1, where they start throwing each other's stuff out the door, except in that episode it sexed them up so much and they ran to their bedroom to finish it. haha
- Sarah Gilbert was a passable child actor who did not get better as an actress especially with the poorly written part she had. Darlene basically became a bitch and her character became a sellout: the young girl who couldn't wait to leave Lanford was so stupid to get knocked up so she couldn't leave.
- I always thought Roseanne was robbed an Emmy nod for the episode where Darlene goes into labor and there is potentially a problem with the baby. Best acting she ever did.
That being said, I may be biased as I know her real life daughters.
- R132 - Please tell us more! I've heard that Drew Carey was not an easy guy to deal with at all.
Also, I agree that the frustration and anger that came out in that argument in that particular episode was well paced and well acted. Reminded me of arguments that my parents had when I was growing up.
- The show benefitted from the inclusion of many of Chicago's great theatre actors. Metcalf, Goodman, Natalie West, Parsons, Rondi Reed, Galecki, etc. Casting agents need never visit a coast.
- [quote]I thought Lecy Goranson was fantastic after the first few seasons when she started rebelling and became nasty to Roseanne. She really nailed that snarky, belligerent teen girl attitude
Agreed. Lecy was anything but a bad actress. She really made you hate Becky when the character became mouthy and sassy.
- Another thing about the show that never made sense to me was the layout of Darlene/Becky's room and DJ's room. The kids' bedrooms were supposed to be connected via the bathroom (it was mentioned a few times), but the position of their bedroom doors doesn't seem to make this possible.
Until she came back.
She was fine when first on the show, but after she took her break, her acting was horrendous.
- For R132 and R138 - a Drew Carey thread.
- And for R133 - a Brett Butler/Grace Under Fire thread.
- I loved the pot smoking episode when jackie says, while in the tub, Is this the sink? Am i shrinking?
- Yes, the pot smoking episode is one I watch whenever it's on! The, "Did I just say that out loud?" so reminds me of me when I smoke, so I don't.
- One episode that really gripped me was the one where Jackie's boyfriend Fisher beat her up. It was totally realistic the way Laurie played the scene where Rosie discovers her bruises, and Roseanne was great in those scenes too. Funny how she ended up marrying the actor who played Fisher and having his kid (which she was pregnant with in season 6). Jackie always had the hottest guys pining after her. I liked Michael O'Keefe as Jackie's babydaddy Fred, if for nothing more than to see his hot self on the show every week.
- R144 Thank you so much!
- Due to this thread, I started watching the series from the pilot ep (I didn't watch it during its initial run, and only caught the occasional ep in syndication). In the third ep, "DIVORCE", a friend reminds Roseanne of her dream of becoming a writer. I don't know if that was ever mentioned in latter eps. However, I like how that came full circle for Roseanne (even though so many viewers seem to hate how it was done) in the final ep of the series. I doubt that anybody associated with the show so many years later even remembered that reference.
- [quote]Funny how she ended up marrying the actor who played Fisher and having his kid (which she was pregnant with in season 6).
Unfortunately, Metcalf and Matt "Fisher" Roth separated two years ago.
- Actually, R149, Roseanne the Writer popped up several times throughout the series run. The one episode that sticks out was the one where Dan builds Rosie a room in the basement for her to write in. She loves the room, but gets writer's block in it. At the end of the episode, DJ tells Rosie something that sparks and idea in her.
- [quote]Another thing about the show that never made sense to me was the layout of Darlene/Becky's room and DJ's room. The kids' bedrooms were supposed to be connected via the bathroom (it was mentioned a few times), but the position of their bedroom doors doesn't seem to make this possible.
I don't recall anything about connected rooms. The girls had the Master Bedroom of the house. They're bedroom was bigger than Roseanne and Dan's. It had a separate bathroom. Roseanne's room shared the bathroom with the downstairs floor. It had two doors, one in the hallway and other Her room.
- Ahhhh... That's cool, R151. Because it didn't come from left field, that works for me, and makes even more sense that the character wrote the entire dream season. At least there is some consistency.
It is mentioned several times and it's also how she connects with Darlene in later episodes. Darlene pursues a writing career, actually gets a writing offer, I believe, and it sort of reminds Roseanne what her dreams were and how Darlene is living the life she wanted for herself.
I believe it also comes up in the episode where Joan Collins plays her cousin...
- [quote] Unfortunately, Metcalf and Matt "Fisher" Roth separated two years ago.
I had no idea that she'd also been married to Jeff Perry, who is now on Scandal but was Thatcher Grey on Grey's Anatomy. They have a daughter together and that daughter was apparently in Laurie's most recent play.
It's mentioned that the girls have a connected room to DJ in a few episodes. It's mainly mentioned in situations where DJs either spying on them or locks them out, etc.
Michael O'Keefe who at the time was married to Bonnie Raitt.
What! Jackie was married to Mr. Katimiski???
- [quote]Michael O'Keefe who at the time was married to Bonnie Raitt
Yep, he sure was. And he was too hot for her, LOL.
- R155, that daughter also played the younger Jackie in the Halloween episode that was sort of like A CHRISTMAS CAROL and Roseanne is visited by three ghosts. The first one takes her to an event from Roseanne's childhood where she was a bitch to Jackie and Laurie's daughter played little Jackie in that scene.
- Ted was gross when he had that weird fro and beard. When he cut his hair and shaved, I honestly thought another actor had been hired. He looked so different and, well, hot!
- He also dressed better. It's like he had a complete makeover.
She also played younger Jackie in the episode where a Fortune Teller shows young Jackie and young Roseanne their futures... younger Roseanne was hilariously played my Michael Fishman.
- One other inconsistency... which isn't so much inconsistency as there's no way it could be factual....
Dan and Roseanne share a Full-Size mattress.
- You mean Fred, R161. And he was HOT with the long hair and goatee!
- It's called Sherry Stringfield Syndrome, R142.
- [quote]younger Roseanne was hilariously played my Michael Fishman.
Joseph Gordon-Levitt played young Jackie.
- The girl's room had it's entry door on the left of the set and the bathroom on the right. DJ's room had the door on the right side of the set and the bathroom on the left.
It made sense that they connected in the center. If you remember, Darlene is looking to beat DJ up in his room when she walks in on Jackie in the bathroom and sees her bruises.
I guess it doesnt make sense to me in terms of how it would work in the hallway if their doors are on opposite sides. I don't see how it would be possible for there to be a hallway.
- [quote]younger Roseanne was hilariously played my Michael Fishman
In watching the re-runs, I have come to love Fishman. He was a peripheral character and hardly ever in the spotlight, but in seeing more and more each viewing, he really was laugh out loud funny many times. If you watch the bloopers, he cracked Roseanne up all the time.
- I watched the episode of The Nanny where Roseanne plays Miss Fine's cousin, Freda. Oy. Not good. Her acting had gotten so much better during the run of Roseanne and it was like she forgot what she learned by the time her guest starring role came up.
The Nanny is my favorite tv show of all 90s sitcoms. Between that and Bewitched, I could sit in front of the tv for days.
- [quote]Joseph Gordon-Levitt played young Jackie.
Not in the fortune telling episode, where Dan plays Madame Zafitg. It's on right now and it, and not very good. Jackie is some other kid.
- Who is the idiot that said Rosanne and Dan had a bad marriage? They had a fantastic marriage for a being together 18-20 years.
- Sara Rue played a teenage Roseanne Connor in the Season 5 Halloween episode (in the story of how her and Dan met at a Halloween carnival). She totally nailed Roseanne's quirks and mannerisms. I'm not surpirise she went on to bigger and better things. Abraham Benrubi did look a lot like a younger Dan Connor/John Goodman too.
- I can't believe I read all these comments, but I have to comment on a few things. First of all, what is wrong with the person who speaks in great detail about the episode where Roseanne gets pregnant by a rapist, and Jackie was going to have an abortion? Are you on drugs? That never happened.
Also, to the total idiots who said Mark was way too hot for Becky, or even Darlene. You see that in real life all the time. Haven't you seen plenty of teenage girls with nice bodies, but ugly faces, but will have guys hanging all over them? Guys only care about the body, and it's not like those girls were ugly. Darlene was not ugly, she had great hair, and a cute figure. So this was realistic.
David was a great character, and so sweet, a boyfriend you would love your own teenage daughter to have. Him and Darlene matched well together, because they were so much alike, while at the same time, so unalike. They were perfect for each other.
I've seen all the episodes, and it was a great show. I don't think the lottery thing should never have happened, or the last episode thing. But it is what it is. There has not been a show as good as this since.
- [quote]David was a great character, and so sweet, a boyfriend you would love your own teenage daughter to have. Him and Darlene matched well together, because they were so much alike, while at the same time, so unalike. They were perfect for each other.
Too bad Darlene always treated him like shit.
- R154, my favorite line from that episode was when Roseanne was talking to Joan and said something like, "And where did you get that accent, anyway? You grew up in Lanford!"
- [quote]Too bad Darlene always treated him like shit.
Don't you get it? She grew up to be Roseanne. Like Mother like Daughter. She treated David the same way as her Mom did Dan. They loved them, but always showed who the boss was.
- The dynamic of Darlene and David was the comedy, you nitwits.
"Also, to the total idiots who said Mark was way too hot for Becky, or even Darlene. You see that in real life all the time."
The people that post here know nothing of real life, only porn and the luster of the walls of their mother's basement apt.
- Except when Dan really put his foot down, Roseanne backed away. Like that storyline incolving David living with Darlene at college. Roseanne found out and moved David back, but kept Dan in the dark about the whole thing. When Dan finally discovered what David had been living with Darlene and not his mom like he'd said, he punched a hole in the wall and forced David to move out against Roseanne's objections. And later, when Dan learned that Roseanne knew all along, Roseanne had to flee to Jackie's place until Dan cooled down.
For the most part, Dan let Roseanne get her way, but when he meant business, even Roseanne knew not to cross him. On the other hand, when David tried to be assertive, Darlene always cut him down and laughed in his face, then he retreated back into his shell.
- "You didn't beat the crap out of Fisher then go buy chicken, did you?"
Yeah, Roseanne knew Dan had a temper.
- Dan's reaction to Darlene living with David was an aberration. Never before in the show did Roseanne let Dan have his way or was she ever "scared" of his temper.
Have any of you noticed that the show is called ROSEANNE? It's not called Dan, Becky or Mark the hot boyfriend. If it wasn't for Roseanne Barr's act as a comic there would be no show.
- I agree with the posts that say Roseanne herself was the biggest inconsistency. Roseanne did get lazy by the time she waitressed at Rodbells. When she was working at the chicken place they made it a point to say she was their best worker. Then at Rodbells she was known as lazy and obnoxious. The biggest inconsistency was Dan and Roseanne's relationship. They had more of a partenernship in the early seasons. By the 6th season Roseanne was a horrible shrew that emasculated Dan.
Mark also was inconsistent. He was a badass the first couple of seasons he was on, then dumb as a box of rocks when he and Becky came back. Look wise, he was better looking than LG Becky. But they had good chemistry and were believable. Physically, he went better with SC Becky, but their chemistry wasn't as good as with the original Becky. SC acting was terrible on the show.
- R180 I used to watch this show with my parents as a kid and I caught one of the later seasons recently and I can't believe the amount of man basing and how Dan's role was diminished.
Dan was a kinda role model for me as the kind of man(despite being gay we're still MEN) I'd like to be when I grew up, then they destroyed his character by having him have an affair.
The message you get from this show is all men are beaters cheaters or just pussy whipped (David), while women can do no wrong and are amazing.
- Which is funny, r184, because early on when NBC came up with its sitcom response to Roseanne called The Mommies, that was exactly the criticism leveled at it (that all men are stupid or evil and all women can do no wrong). Which goes to show how off the track Roseanne had gotten.
- Mark was "hot"? Not really.
- R184 is the show is about women, if you don't like it, don't watch it. Then start a men's liberation group in protest.
- Someone teach OP the meaning of inconsistency.
- THE MOMMIES -- gosh, I haven't thought about the show in almost 20 years. Never watched it, but I remember the ads and promos. Frankly, it looked stupid to me, and the dumb title didn't help.
Younger Jackie was played by Laurie Metcalfe's daughter, which I think I mentioned when I first posted it. I don't know why the other poster decided to say it was Joseph Gordon Levitt.
- Here is the episode with the fortune teller. The girl does look a lot like Joseph Gordon Levitt did in his appearances on the show, so the mistake is understandable.
- R181, punching the man that beat up your sister in law is not based on temper.
Also, Dan had a reputation for getting into fist fights in bars. That's not "temper" that's fighting. He'd never hit Roseanne or anyone in his family.
- "Who is the idiot that said Rosanne and Dan had a bad marriage? They had a fantastic marriage for a being together 18-20 years"
Oh, please! Their marriage was dysfunctional as hell; two fat slobs struggling to make ends meet. All that joking they did was a defense mechanism they used to gloss over the fact that they and their children were so fucked up.
And their children? Well, their eldest daughter, who supposedly had done well in school and looked like she might make something of herself, got married as a teenager to a loser. Her other daughter goes to art school in order to leave her crummy hometown and be an artist, but instead gets pregnant has has to get married. Her son is a weirdo retard.
Despite having three fucked up children and little money, Dan and Roseanne decide to have ANOTHER baby. Simply put, Dan and Roseanne Connor were pure white trash.
- Something tells me, r193, that you've never been in any kind if relationship.
- Don't forget CBS's answer to Roseanne starring the one and only.... Nell Carter!
- That's awesome, R195! I don't remember that Nell show!
- And then Fox figured if one fat woman could make a hit show... Three fat women is bound to be a BLOCKBUSTERS!!
- [quote]I agree with the posts that say Roseanne herself was the biggest inconsistency. Roseanne did get lazy by the time she waitressed at Rodbells. When she was working at the chicken place they made it a point to say she was their best worker. Then at Rodbells she was known as lazy and obnoxious.
I don't think of it as an inconsistency in the Roseanne character. I saw it as a very weary forty five year old woman tired of jumping from meaningless job to job and dealing with a dysfunctional family.
- The best working moment, R197 and R198, was when Roseanne and Bonnie thought Leon would be promoting someone to replace him as manager of the restaurant. When Bonnie found out Roseanne wanted to be her boss, she went off on her for being lazy, basically saying, "Why should I have to work for a lazy ass like you?"
Roseanne's character was like anyone else: she could suck up like crazy if she needed to.
But in her early days her point of pride was that she was a good worker though she was hardly the pride and joy of the factory.
- I absolutely loved the show when it first came on the air, but as the years went on, I began to watch only sporadically and then stopped altogether, and I think it had to do with the feeling in the house kind of turning sour.
In the beginning, I always got a sense of how, underneath all the sarcasm and crabbiness, it was a very loving household. Back then, I would totally disagree with the people saying Roseanne and Dan had a terrible marriage - I thought they had a wonderful marriage, clearly still in love, and made great partners. And there was clearly a lot of love between the parents and kids, too. At heart, I think it felt to me like essentially a realistic feel-good show - that despite all the things about Roseanne and Dan's lives that sucked (barely making ends meet financially, jobs that sucked, always being worn out and stressed), the fact that they had each other and the kids and Jackie and their friends made things OK. Like, despite dealing with sucky things, your life doesn't have to suck, and can actually be pretty happy.
But over the years, a sort of bitterness came into the relationships, and their lives came to feel a little more bleak, to me. Which is maybe more real and true-to-life, but I don't really enjoy watching a sitcom about it.
That's just my take on it, others may have experienced the show differently.
- [quote](Shelley Winters' role fit her to a t and she was wonderful.)
Nana Mary got one of my favorite lines ever:
"Oh, have a beer, Roseanne! It's not like the fetus has to drive!"
- [quote] But over the years, a sort of bitterness came into the relationships, and their lives came to feel a little more bleak, to me. Which is maybe more real and true-to-life, but I don't really enjoy watching a sitcom about it.
I hear you....whether it was Roseanne's increasing anger about things, or just a cast that had worked together for a long time getting on each other's nerves, that warmth was missing in later years.
- Babes actually rose above the concept of three fat chicks primarily through the work of the late great Wendie Jo Sperber.
- Love Wendie Jo! That bitch deserves her own thread
- Roseanne also didn't waste a second. She was the first to use the end credits and sometimes was the funniest part of the show. Love the one where they drag her out of the bingo hall.
- The change in tone came with Roseanne's plastic surgery and makeover. She looked so much harder, and in turn, the show became harder.
- The plastic surgery, the ego that grew as the sitcom became more popular, and the narcissistic belief that one is always right took over Rosanne Arnold and then Rosanne Connor.
- I don't have an issue with the tone of the show changing. That's what great shows do.
And the way I remember it, the changes in tone did reflect what was going on in the Nation at the time. It was around 1992 and the Economy sucked. Families like those that Roseanne depicted really struggled. People go through shit like that and get angry. I think the show did a great job of capturing that.
- [quote]The change in tone came with Roseanne's plastic surgery and makeover. She looked so much harder, and in turn, the show became harder.
Even the tone and timbre of her voice changed. In the early seasons she sounded warm and lovable (albeit sarcastic), but after the surgeries she sounded shrill and embittered.
- Re: the bedroom issue.
We're seeing two different perspectives, which is why we see the hallway door on opposite sides of the rooms. It's the same as when we see inside the garage vs. outside. When we are in the living room, we see the front door on our left and the garage to the right of the house. When we are in the garage, we're to the left of the house (from that perspective.) The same rule applies for the second floor. In one room, we see through the windows facing the street, and in the other bedroom we are looking out the window to the backyard.
The room that doesn't make sense in Roseanne and Dan's. We know that window faces the next door neighbours' house, but based on the layout of the front door/porch, that window ACTUALLY faces the street. Perhaps there is an awkward hallway between the bedroom door and the archway?
- I saw Carson the first time Roseanne appeared with her stand-up routine, and she was hilarious. Then the sitcom was very funny, until it degenerated into a soap opera, with the consistent theme that women rule the Earth and hold everything together while the male of the species is incompetent, lazy, uncouth, and just an all around fuck-up.
I still don't think that's it. If one bedroom upstairs looks out onto the street and the other bedroom looks out onto the backyard, they can't be connected by the bathroom the way that it is.
I think this is just something that the show didn't bother to think about.
And we actually know that DJs room is supposed to face one of the neighbor's windows.
- I saw Metcalf's recent Broadway play which her daughter was in. I saw a very early preview and had no idea at the time that that was her daughter. I was very impressed that they had found this actress who more than held her own and also bore a resemblance to Metcalf.
-  I'm reminded of a running gag throughout an episode. Different members of the Connor family would grab the carton of milk out of the fridge only to discover it had gone bad. Instead of tossing it they placed it back into the fridge. Over the end of the episode credits, Dan takes a sip from the carton of milk and collapses to the floor in convulsions. Before he passes out, he manages to place the carton of milk back into the fridge.
You're right, sometimes the scenes over the end credits were a lot funnier than moments in the show.
- R211 exactly that's why I have time watching this feminist propoganda show in reruns it didn't start out like that, but I guess after her divorce from Tom Arnold it became more and more like that.
I also hate the way how they portrayed the 2 gay characters on one hand you had Leon who was somewhat stereotypical, a lot of times he came off as a fussy queen.
On the other hand you had Sandra Bernheart who was straight than gay and finally bi I believe she was also unstereotypical. For once on a sitcom can we have a gay/ bi male character who's sexuality is fluid and who is really masculine and his being attracted to the same gender is only a part of who he is, not everything of who he is.
Roseanne set the gay characters up to be patronizing to the audience
Speaking of running gags. Apparently, every episode either mentions corn or has a shot of corn on screen.
I look at it differently. People tend to forget that back then, there weren't really any gay characters on sitcoms. Roseanne had 4. Whether we liked how they were portrayed or not, she at least had them front and center on her show, which was remarkable for its time and did open the door to having audiences used to the idea of gay characters.
- Leon was the only voice of reason in the entire cast. He just wanted to run the restaurant as smoothly and profitable with as little drama as possible.
- "Something tells me, [R193], that you've never been in any kind if relationship."
Something tells me, R194, that you are moronic.
- Things change, shows change during their run..WRITERS change...jeez, you guys take so much of this too seriously. I haven't watched The Simpsons since the fourth season because it began to suck. Was Marge having substance abuse issues off screen????
- Leon acted like every AIDS infested 'mo I've ever seen.
- Okay, here is the floor plan of their home.
- Here is the exterior of the house. It's a real house in Indiana.
- I think sitcoms would be better if they were designed to last just 52 episodes. It would be one 52 part screenplay. Each episode would tell a story for that week, in line with the humorous situation, but it would also tell its part of the storyline for the 52 part story.
- R223 your link does not work.
- Here you go R225. You can put the address in Google Maps and see it too.
- Don't know if this was brought up, but there were inconsistencies with DJ's room. Some episodes, the door was on the left and then on the right in others.
Also were we supposed to think each bedroom upstairs had a bathroom?
I remember the episode with Jackie's abuse. She says she's going upstairs to borrow a top from Darlene. Then Darlene finds her in DJ's room in a bathroom. Always found that odd.
- Always wondered what part of the house that small window was in the middle of the front exterior
- The show about DJ jacking off was really freaky. Can you imagine your mother and sisters making a big public issue of your private masturbation at the age of 13? Just more anti-male propaganda, which is what television has become.
- R229: take a pill
- [quote]Speaking of running gags. Apparently, every episode either mentions corn or has a shot of corn on screen.
There was also that damn chicken shirt. Someone always wore it in every episode.
- Roseanne again, this time on the apron:
- Never picked up on the corn and the chicken shirt. Please tell me Carol Channing guest starred at one point.
- Is Sonny still buried under that damn bridge?
It's been mentioned on here that Dj and Darlene/Becky's room shared a bathroom.
It makes no sense to the layout of the house though because of how the bedroom doors are set for each room.
Yes, that one was one of the more obvious running gags. I remember reading about it a little while ago where it was explained:
"The chicken shirt, it was just the ugliest shirt I ever saw and we had this bet between us, the actors; if you show something really bad on TV it takes off. It was like another rebellious artistic statement, that it looks like art when it's on TV."
"Roseanne liked to wear a white t-shirt that had a large picture of an egg with a chicken.
Tom Arnold HATED this shirt so much she did not wear it in any episode while they were married. After their divorce Roseanne used the t-shirt in every episode, she either wore it, took it out of the washing machine, had it in her laundry load or Jackie's, and in an episode about her unborn grandchild even framed it on the wall as a giant painting! She even stops to look at it!"
- [quote]Tom Arnold HATED this shirt so much she did not wear it in any episode while they were married.
I don't think this is true 'cause that chicken shirt did appear in the early seasons, too. This pic is from Season 2. You can tell by the haircut, which she wore during her salon days.
- R239, I think that the shirt was worn before and after her time with Tom but not during which might explain it being in earlier shows.
- Webmaster, PLEASE block the "AIDS infested 'mo" troll at R221 and elsewhere.
I don't believe that Roseanne was married to Tom at the time. She didn't marry him until 1990 which I think was the third season of the show.
- I'm now up to S2 Ep.8 "SWEET DREAMS". This is one of the best episodes of any sitcom I've ever seen! Creative and funny. Who knew? I laughed throughout the entire thing! Even without completing the series, I know it'll be one of my favorite eps (those of you who watched at the time: What did you think of it?).
Earlier poster who didn't watch the show and didn't know that Roseanne the Writer was
What was the episode about again?
- [quote]What was the episode about again?
Roseanne wants 10 minute alone in the bathroom, falls asleep, and has a dream musical about offing her family. "Weeeee luvvvvvve Roseannnnnnnnnne!"
- Nevermind R244
I remember the episode. At the time it originally aired I remember not liking it and thinking it was one of the weaker episodes.
- I really liked S2E10.. Brain Dead Poets Society.
Webmaster, please block the guy who thinks censorship of opinions is fine.
- Funny you mention that episode R243. Roseanne hated Sweet Dreams, called it lame and unfunny, regretted ever filming it and apologized to viewers for that episode when she was on Donahue.
- Remember the time Roseanne said that she wanted cookies but you never see her eating them? She had a bag of chips instead.
- It made no sense that Bev was the gay character. I agree with those that say Darlene should have been a lesbian (heck, she really is!)
Mark was so hot; I don't remember a shirtless scene of him. Another tragic death due to drugs.
When they won the lottery, the show lost it; the average viewer couldn't relate to it any more.
Carroll A. Peterson
- I would say it lost it's luster well before the lottery storyline. After the first few seasons Roseanne became this bitter character and was no longer much fun to watch.
The earlier episodes had her as a sarcastic but loving woman trying to be supportive of her family while at the same time rejecting conventions. It was refreshing because the house could be a mess. They could be short of money. Unlike other sitcoms where the bills were always magically paid and the living room was always spotless, Roseanne was more realistic.
Then she began to have a vision of herself as some kind of champion for working class women and the show became a platform for her anger. It became sad and uncomfortable watching her spar with Dan. It still had it's moments but there was no warmth left.
It didn't help that she remade her face and hair so she looked like an fat Eskimo teenager. Chubby-cheeked Roseanne looked like a woman you would meet at the supermarket. After the surgery and new hairstyle she just looked bizarre.
- Something tells me, r252, that you don't know much about teenagers.
- I always thought that dormer over the front porch was weird. Why would you put a dormer there? There's no room behind it.
- [quote]Something tells me, [R252], that you don't know much about teenagers.
LOL! Fair enough. I meant the hip flat hairstyle.
- I think that when John Goodman began to hint that he wanted to leave the show, Roseanne got into her mind that she and Laurie Metcalf could tap into the popularity of Absolutely Fabulous. It seems to me that that is what the lottery season was grasping at.
Roseanne also missed a huge opportunity. When Goodman wanted to leave the show, the ghosts of John Amos-Esther Rolle on Good Times were rattling their chains. Could a popular character continue on without her husband? I think if Roseanne pulled herself together she could have pulled off that change and created a new paradigm for sitcoms.
- I would like to know why Natalie West left Roseanne? The years with Crystal were better than the years without. Did she and Roseanne get into a bitchfight?
- Natalie West made appearances into season 6 well after she was dropped from the regulars.
I think she was also part of the Roseanne publicity during the time of the DVDs - no seeming bad blood.
- The show got off track with the shift in focus. The later seasons seemed to be all about David all the time. I also think having Jackie get pregnant changed that character and not for the better.
- There was some rumor that Natalie West was dropped after she spoke to the tabloids about Tom and Roseanne's relationship.
- R259 then why was Natalie's West blurred in the DVD extras, when they interviewed certain cast members and they'd show a scene from the show?
- I hated the show after Natalie left. That's also when Lecy left. Who knew the show would change so much without those two characters?
- Yeah, I usually only watch the first 4 seasons. I still enjoy the 5th season after Becky #1 left, but I didn't like when Mark and David became mainstay characters. Then Season 6 with Becky #2 and the whole Fred garbage, I can't deal with it anymore. Not to mention Roseanne's appearance and attitude changed drastically.
The show was better when it focused on the family and their struggles. No boyfriends, husbands, outrageous storylines.
- I think the best episode they ever did was Terms of Estrangement part 1 and 2 of season 5 when Becky left. Roseanne, Goodman, and Lecy all really did some nice dramatic work and the final scene between Roseanne and Lecy was heartbreaking. You could tell it was really goodbye for those two.
- Roseanne Barr and Laurie Metcalf had way better chemistry and played off of each other better than Roseanne did with Natalie West. Producers and writers noticed this early on and realized that they could create more plots with the main character and sister than they could with a traditional sidekick suck as Crystal/Natalie West.
- Crystal was the Caroline Appleby to Lucy & Ethel. Funny to have around once in awhile, but isn't right to be in every episode.
I think they also missed an opportunity early on when they didn't have a best friend for Dan. They tried to do it with Fred later on but by that time it just didn't work.
- [quote]Mark was so hot; I don't remember a shirtless scene of him.
He showed his crack in the Thanksgiving '94 episode. David fixed Mark's pants, but when Mark insults David for the umpteenth time, David rips the seat of his pants. Skip to 24:54 for the end credits scene. They try to blur it out, but as Mark turns around to walk away, the blur doesn't stay on the crack. Get your pause button ready. :-P
- I've noticed that in the scene where Dan and Roseanne have that screaming argument Roseanne is wearing what is obviously a professional makeup job. They're supposed to be a blue collar couple with little means and she's wearing a makeup job that looks like it's been applied by Bobby Brown? So stupid.
I don't think it was that far fetched that Bev turned out to be a lesbian. She was a repressed housewife from the 50's who was angry, bitter, and drank. She was also forced into marriage because she was pregnant and it was a loveless relationship which also turned out to be abusive. I don't see it as being that far from reality that someone like her would also be repressing homosexual feelings.
- Dan had friends early on, but again, as the focus shifted, it became less about him. I also liked when Roseanne had a group of friends who were recurring. That also disapppeared when the bitterness overtook the show.
- R261 I don't remember West being blurred out but I remember that the baby she was holding was. The faces are blurred out in the extras because the company that ones the dvd rights would be required to pay the actor more royalties
- R270, that was not bitterness, it was sarcasm.
- No, r.272, it was not sarcasm. It was bitterness. Roseanne became angry and bitter and was nothing like the woman from the first 4 seasons. That was sarcasm.
- It was sarcasm. That's what I think, you cannot "talk me out f it."
- Bitter or sarcastic, many of the later seasons sucked. Way before the lottery season.
- I remember when the episode originally aired, Mark's butt WAS shown at the time. In reruns it's been blurred.
- R275, ALL sitcoms suck in the last two seasons.
- Sarcasm was the first several seasons when the audience was still able to root for Roseanne. That arc with the priss neighbor comes to mind as a good example.
During the later seasons, she and the show were most assuredly bitter - there was no underlying enjoyment or playfulness that helped make this downtrodden, workaday family loveable.
- Why do you feel the need to repeat yourself, r278?
- Sure the tone changed after the first few seasons, so what? It was still one of the best shows on and broke a lot of barriers that weren't being addressed on sitcoms at the time. People seem to forget that.
Plus, I don't think it was that out of character for Roseanne to become more sarcastic, cynical, and to those who want to call her angry and bitter, as the show went on. This was around 1992 and the Economy was shitty and caused a lot of stress, anxiety, fear, and anger in people across the country. I think it was actually pretty realistic.
- Does anyone know why the show became so David-centric? Is it just because the girls were gone?
- Also, I've always wanted to know what the heck happened when Lecy returned. Why did she leave again?
- [quote]Why did she leave again?
Lecy left to go to college.
- r283, no - I meant the second time when she returned. Not sure what season that was. And then Sarah Chalke was brought in again.
- Most inconsistent things you ask?
Roseanne Barr's sanity and surnames.
Still, the best show that's ever been on T.V.
- Television is one word. The abbreviation is TV, not T.V.
- OP, he's not too hot for her anymore...
- Lecy reportedly left for good because the tone of the show had changed drastically. She felt it just wasn't the same show by then.
- So basically Lecy said what every DLer has been saying.
- I dare you to not laugh at DJ!
- In the series finale "Roseanne" the character reveals that the whole series was a fictionalized account of her life; with key changes made for, frankly absurd reasons. I believe this was a clever way of reclaiming, in the mind of the audience, the truth about "Roseanne" the series.
The entire premise-which was pretty brilliant and totally unique for it's time-was created entirely from Roseanne Barr's stand-up routine which she had refined and developed for years before Hollywood came to her with an offer to build a series around her work. What she failed to realize was that an unscrupulous Carsey-Werner producer would DEVELOP her CREATION into a sitcom format; then have the audacity to claim the "Created by" credit merely for shaping and refining HER show.
When Roseanne Barr protested, and rightfully so, she was actually denied the right to have his name (Matt Williams) removed and replaced with her own. This was the outcome of an appeal to the Writers Guild of America, which obviously stuck up for one of their own slick, overpaid, Hollywood hack writers over the rights of an average, working class woman who made it to the top through guts, talent and sheer determination.
Perhaps the WGA provides some benefits to it's members, I wouldn't know; but I DO know they apparently have a great deal of power when it comes to keeping new people with new ideas from getting anywhere near a network production. They even kept Prospect Park, a production company from re-launching the online versions of "All My Children" and "One Life to Live" for over a year. The WGA did finally relent once Prospect Park caved and signed a contract basically ensuring that ONLY writers from canceled soaps would be allowed to write for-more likely, recycle-the tired old plots and dialogue that destroyed soaps in the first place.
That last episode, I believe, was a very satisfying, overdue "F-You" to Matt Williams and the WGA for stealing credit for Roseanne Barr's work by denying her the "Created by" credit we all know she deserved. It doesn't fully make up for the injustice-but at least Roseanne will be remembered always as a television pioneer. Matt Williams surely has a ton of money for taking the work of other successful stand-up comedians and appropriating it to "create" sitcoms and "write" scripts; but his WGA cronies can never make him into a legend. That takes hard work, artistic integrity and a divine spark of talent: three things the WGA can work tirelessly to keep out of the business, but can never take from Roseanne Barr and the masterpiece SHE created.
- Don't forget Roseanne's original husband, Bill Pentland, who was her writing partner.
- [quote]Lecy reportedly left for good because the tone of the show had changed drastically. She felt it just wasn't the same show by then.
Was that the "safe" reason? Years ago I caught Roseanne and Tom on Howard Stern. Stern told Roseanne that he heard Lecy had left because she was having an affair with a much older producer or a someone-or-other who worked on the show. Rather than deny it, Roseanne asked, "How did YOU hear about that?" And that was it. She didn't say anything more than that and the subject was changed.
- Wait a sec. I may have misread the quote. My understanding is that Lecy left the first time due to the affair she was having. Don't know what was up the second time.
- Nice to see Roseanne showing up here as r.291. The finale sucked as did the last few seasons.
- Lecy left because the show was supposed to end with Dan having a heart attack and at the last minute Roseanne agreed to do another season.
This also explains the weak storyline as no one had anticipated coming back for another year and it gave Roseanne a chance to run amok.
Lecy was asked to come back but had other projects she couldn't get out of.
- Back when it was airing, I didn't notice it, but now seeing some of the the later episodes, the show did become a LOT about David.
- Which was good because they needed a young male and DJ was worthless as a character and the actor who played him couldn't act.
In fact Laurie Metcalf, and to a lesser degree John Goodman, were the only talented ones in the cast. Without those two in the cast, Roseanne couldn't have made it past mid season of season 1.
- I disagree, R298. Michael Fishman may not have been an "actor", but he was funny and totally realistic as an everyday kid. You couldn't even tell he was "acting" most of the time, he was that real. And Roseanne may not have been great in season one, but as the years went by her acting greatly improved. She always brought it when it came to the dramatic stuff (i.e., Roseanne regrets hitting DJ; Roseanne reacts to Jackie being beat up by her boyfriend Fischer; how Rosie takes learning Dan cheated on her).
- I LOVED this show -- and still do. What I always thought was funny is that in every episode the refrigerator is right up next to the edge of the door-facing going into the living room -- but in all the opening credits it's always several feet or more down the kitchen wall from that door-facing with other furniture by the door-facing. Also, supposedly in season 1 corn is mentioned in every episode, and in season 5 there's a tacky pullover t-shirt with a couple of large chickens on it and many of the cast members wear it in different scenes on all the episodes from that season. Even Dan wore it at the end of one of the episodes sitting on the couch. Hilarious!
- R293 It wasn't an affair. It was supposedly "sexual harrassment"
- TV Land is having another Roseanne marathon at this very moment -- the better shows, the early ones. The tornado show is on right now!
- If you look at the first season, you will notice how much John Goodman's Dan changed in appearance, though not as much as Roseanne, but plenty during the series. In the beginning he's a fat tub with a sweaty mop of uncombed hair. Later, the mop is always coiffed and dyed. The sweat is rarely visible if at all.
- and remember that David had a different name at first.... cant recall it though~
- Did anyone ever explain that name change? The episode where David was introduced as "Kevin" was on last night.
- I watched when it originally aired, but was too young to recall how jarring it was to see Roseanne's facial change during season 5. It seemed like the season started with her normal face, then morphed several episodes in.
- omg i love every season of this show!!! you all are crazy for knocking any episode of it! i watch it every night and i love it.. every episode from the first to the last makes me laugh and i can relate to at least one thing she says in every single episode! don't overthink it, it's a tv show. take it for what it is and love it :)
There's an episode where its addressed. I don't remember which but they basically say that David isn't even his real name, Darlene just changed his name because she liked it better.