They were both under the care of the notorious "Dr. Feelgood", Max Jacobson. Apparently he treated JFK with amphetamines at the White House over 30 times! Never heard about this until I was reading a book about Jackie last night.\
Say it ain''t so!
Max Jacobsen AKA Dr. Feelgood was very popular with celebrities in the 1960s. He eventually lost his license and died some years ago. His "patients" did not know they were receiving amphetamines. He called his injections "vitamin B-12 shots" and claimed they were just vitamins when in fact they were about 90% speed. Many rich and famous people in the 60s thought they were just getting a healthy shot of vitamins and were totally unaware of what was really in those shots. JFK and Jackie got them throughout their time in the White House. The shots have been specualted as one of the causes of Jackie''s lymphoma many years later. Apparently, a lot of people who got the shots later developed cancer.
Yes, OP, I knew this twenty years ago...\
What a schizoid, Jekkyl-n-Hyde, personality JFK had! On the one hand, the witty, charming, urbane, literate intellectual, and on the other hand, the nasty, swinish, addicted sex-pig wallowing in the trough. "The American Trajan," as the historians have so rightly named him, the ruler of this country under whom the American Empire reached its apex. With all of the Emperor''s Trajans virtues and vices...\
And yet there was so much HOPE in his time! I remember it clearly. And if the American people could return to the last year of his Presidency (November, 1962 (right after the Cuban Missile Crisis) - November, 1963), they would be so pleasantly shocked by the freedom of their lives in that age that they would spontaneously rise up in the streets during the summer of 2010 to overthrow the monstrous forces that oppress them!\
But why speculate about such things? They will never happen. The bright day is done, and we are for the dark... SIGH...
Totally off topic, but I can''t start a new thread. I''m getting a new fridge on Friday---my old one is 11 years old and has been exhibiting warning signs for a few months now.\
So I''m trying to eat old stuff stored in my freezer to prepare for the switch. \
Today for lunch I had 2 Morningstar farms spicy black bean patties, with salsa and fat-free sour cream. Delish.\
New fridge is a stainless French door model, on sale online at Home Depot through the 14th. I ordered it though Mr. Rebate''s website and racked up some nice cash doing that.\
(Thanks to the DL poster who recommended Mr. Rebate---I have earned several hundred dollars this year making purchases I would have made anyway.)
I collect books about the Kennedy''s and they are filled with one shocking thing after another.\
Apparently they sat around and smoked and drank while they were jacked up on speed.\
Sounds great to me!\
Filthy rich, too.
Wow, I always wondered why Jackie died so young.
When you have been up for thirty-six hours straight hand-painting the trim in the Blue Room it''s safe to say you are aware you''ve been injected with something more powerful than B-12.
JFK had no adrenal glands that worked. He was probably desperate for anything that gave him some energy. Which speed would do.
How long would JFK had lived if he hadn''t been assasinated? That man had so many health problems, and he was only in his 40s. Do you think he would have even made it to 65?
No, he was chock full of sexually-transmitted diseases, just like dear old dad.
JFK was constantly, seriously ill. Look at pictures of him in his youth where he was skinny and sickly looking; he was not a well person even when a young man. And it didn''t help that he fucked anything as much as possible; he had chronic chlamydia from his sex addiction, and no doubt picked up other STDs along the way.\
He took steroids for his Addison''s disease,pain-killers for his back, antispasmodics for his colitis, antibiotics for urinary-tract infections, antihistamines for allergies and, on at least one occasion, an antipsychotic (though only for two days) for a severe mood change that Jackie Kennedy believed had been brought on by the antihistamines\
He was hospitalized over three dozen times in his life and was given the last rites three times. \
Of course ALL of this was kept secret, as was his blatant womanizing with just about every female who crossed his path. \
JFK was in incredible dick, just like his dear old Dad.
I do not know about Jackie, but according to Gore Vidal ( who drops names like steady rain), JFK was on painkillers from the time he hurt his back in WWII.
Bobby sent several vials to the FBI labs. It didn''t test positive for narcotics, but Dr. Feelgood never used opiates. The FBI didn''t test for amphetamines. JFK told Bobby, "I don''t care if it''s horse piss. It works."
[quote]On the one hand, the witty, charming, urbane, literate intellectual, and on the other hand, the nasty, swinish, addicted sex-pig wallowing in the trough.\
Nasty? Swinish? Addicted to sex, yes. But pig wallowing in the trough? What are you talking about?
R10 was correct. JFK started the "vitamin shots" after he hurt his back during a tree planting ceremony in Canada. He was on his way to meet Khrushchev for the first time and didn''t want to appear weak in front of him.
Fucking every pretty girl who throws herself at you, including mafia molls, is considered "wallowing in the trough" when you are the President of the USA. Promiscuous adulterous sex within the White House is conduct unbecoming the dignity of the office. More importantly, a president who is guilty of hundreds of blackmail-able offenses poses a genuine security risk to the entire nation.
[quote]Nasty? Swinish? Addicted to sex, yes. But pig wallowing in the trough? What are you talking about?\
Read a book or two, shitforbrains.
I have, that''s why I questioned your comment.
In 1965 all amphetamines became illegal in the U.S. unless a person had a doctors prescription.
Did Jackie ever do coke at Studio 54?
I''m slightly scared of R2
Back in the 60s and 70s my mom had a friend who was a nurse. My mother used to go to the doctor''s office where her friend worked and she (and the nurse!) would get ''B-12 shots''. Does this mean my mother was doing speed?
my mind is now officially blown.
I don''t know about Jackie, but I do know from what I''ve read that JFK was in pain from a degenerative disk disease that rendered him unable to walk, sit, or stand; no doubt JFK was addicted to pain meds for quite sometime in order to function as President.
Jackie needed a little pep.
R5, one of the theories about Jackie''s death is that she developed cancer from excessive use of black hair dyes. Can''t remember the book - but it cited studies about this. Perhaps they have changed the formula now - any cosmetologist-types out there care to confirm or deny?
Miss Porter''s teacart
"I don''t know about Jackie, but I do know from what I''ve read that JFK was in pain from a degenerative disk disease that rendered him unable to walk, sit, or stand; no doubt JFK was addicted to pain meds for quite sometime in order to function as President."\
With that bad back, I guess Marilyn Monroe was always on top?
I think all his girls had to be on top. You have to admire his dedication to hound-dogging with his back problems. Imagine how much MORE tail he would have had if he hadn''t been slowed down.
IWAS A PATIENT OF MAX FOR 14 YEARS (1960-1974) AND HE GAVE ME VIALS OF SHOTS TO ADMINISTER TO MYSELF WHICH DESTROYED 2 MARRIAGES AND ALMOST GOT ME IMPRISONED FOR SPOUSAL ABUSE..I HAD THE VIALS ASSAYED WHILE WORKING FOR PLOUGH INC IN THEIR LAB AND DISCOVERED THE WERE LOADED WITH AMPHETAMINES SO I QUIT DR MAX RIGHT THEN...ONE THING NEVER EXPOSED ABOUT HIM WAS THAT HE COULD GIVE YOU A SHOT THAT TURNED YOU INTO A SEXUAL SUPER-MAN AND THAT IS MAINLY WHY KENNEDY''S AND CHUCK SPAULDING HIS BEST FRIEND WENT TO MAX--ALMOST A MEGA VIAGRA..I WAS THIN AND VERY CREATIVE AT THE TIME BUT HAD AN IRRATIONAL ANGER WHICH I DID NOT UNDERSTAND..I SAW MANY CELEBRITIES INHIS NYC OFFICE OVER THE YEARS..IT WAS KENNEDY AND PETE LAWFORD WHO FIRST GOT ME ACQUAINTED WITH JACOBSEN WHEN I HAD A HEPATITIS ATTACK DURING THE INAUGURATION..JOH M VAN ZANDT
JOHN M (JACK) VAN ZANDT
R15 prefers his Presidents to have alzheimers.
JFK may or may not have had...
A wrecked back
One leg which was shorter than the other
An eyesight problem which developed when he was in office
Allergies to milk, horses, and most flowers and fauna
A slow acting leukemia
...and so on
This is just from reading books about the Kennedy's. It was also claimed that Eunice Kennedy Shriver had Addison's Disease and I would be willing to bet that Maria Shriver does as well.
With JFK, who the heck knows if he was a full on drug addict or not. No one knew jack squat about good old Doctor Feelgood back then at all, even though he hooked Eddie Fisher pretty badly.
With Jackie, I figure she knew how to do just enough to get by here and there. Keep in mind that the Doctor claimed he was giving vitamin shots, so there might have been a mind over matter affect going on with her.
I think JFK would not have lived to have a second term because of his ill health. I read in one book that his Adrenal glands were goners and all of that with Addison's Disease makes it really hard for one to fight off infection (and he had STD's!)
I''m reading a book that quotes Kennedy as saying at the start of his administration that, due to his health problems, he didn''t expect to live past his 45th birthday (he was killed when he was 46). Yet I''ve also read that, to counter the concerns of LBJ as his running mate, he would tell people that he was only 43 in 1960 and he wasn''t going to die in office.
[quote]What a schizoid, Jekkyl-n-Hyde, personality JFK had! On the one hand, the witty, charming, urbane, literate intellectual, and on the other hand, the nasty, swinish, addicted sex-pig wallowing in the trough. "The American Trajan," as the historians have so rightly named him\
Where have you read about this other "nasty" personality? I''ve never read anything like that.
Who is John/Jack VanZandt?
Interesting stuff - keep it coming.
I''ll bet that mini-series dwelled on this.
Jackie continued to get shots after she was out of the White House.\
Dr. Jacobson''s first wife Nina began having an affair with (JFK"s friend) Chuck Spalding, which resulted in the breakup of Mr. Spalding%E2%80%99s marriage. \
In the photo at link: JFK, Dr. Max Jacobson, Stash Radziwill, and Chuck Spalding in Palm Beach. Radziwill was already a patient of Dr. Jacobson.
Mrs. Kennedy also had become devoted to Dr. Jacobson%E2%80%99s injections. By 1962, %E2%80%9CHer drug use had escalated to the point where she wanted shots all the time, even when alone on a private trip that involved no official duties. Secret Service Agent Larry Newman, who accompanied her for three days in New York City, beginning on Wednesday, June 6, 1962, noted she %E2%80%9Cattended the theater, dined at Le Club with Truman Capote, and saw Dr. Jacobson...She did not, however, visit Jacobson%E2%80%99s office near the Carlyle. %E2%80%98He would sit in the lobby of the hotel until he got a call and then he would go up,%E2%80%99 Newman recalled.%E2%80%9D The Secret Service could always tell when she had received an injection because she would start licking her lips in a characteristic way. Secret Service agents said, %E2%80%9CWe knew he was going up to see her and giving her shots. But that wasn%E2%80%99t our call.%E2%80%9D
I don''t know about drugs but Jack frequently gave me injections.
I''ve always been amused (and amazed)at the way the media salivates over this nonsense and yet...%0D\
*When was the last time you heard all this noise about Nixon and his drinking?%0D\
*When will get the exposes on Bush and his drinking?%0D\
*Reagan? Alzheimer''s. Hmmm. Oh right, it happened after he left office.%0D\
*Lots of stuff on Clinton and his dick, but not a word on the fact that Gingrich not only loved to get sucked but...well, he had a thing for young girls.%0D\
Oh course, the "liberal" media has reported all this stuff, so you know about it--right?
Too many exclamatory responses here. You have to
remember that in 1960-63; amphetamines was rather common. They did not have the stigma, they do today. Many people in careers that put stress on wakefulness such as truck drivers doing long hauls, people working mixed shifts, medical areas etc were commonly given pep pills. I rec'd them without a blink at my Big 10 University Health Clinic as a sophmore when I gained 10 lbs! I wass also given valium for side effects! We no now, this is not good, to mix uppers and downers, but the thinking was different in 1966.
There is a bio on JFK, by Dalek that goes into JFK's medical hx at length. He suffered real ailments and he handled them with grace; fighting to accomplish much. He complained little, but he wanted results, to be free of pain and fatigue. Who could blame him for that? We all know our first ladies have to work alongside their husbands, putting best foot forward. I don't think Dr. Max was recreational for either of them, Jackie did admit to post-partum depression after John, Jr. and the baby who died. They were a young couple who looked so vibrant, they were also humans who faced their own challenges as best they could.
Honey, everybody did uppers then. Jean-Paul Sartre wrote all his most famous books on speed.
I pick my nose.
For John Van Zandyt
I am writing a book about Max Jacobson. I'm interested in your experiences with him
Please call me if you can
216 464 1300
JFK lived with chronic pain and Jackie was a nervous bore, so all signs point to YES
Weird to get home, surf to the DL, and see a thread you started over two years ago back on top - especially when bumped by r43. How the hell did you find this thread, r43, and what were you looking for?
Who is John Zamdt??
R25, from what I know, they have not. There are more natural dyes, but of the traditional ones, the darker the dye, the more carcinogenic.
Many believe Jack was born with a debilitating back condition. Many books have mentioned corsets and even a gaping hole in his back, which was supposedly shocking to few friends that happened to see it. JFK was very immoral according to my views of marriage, but I doubt there were many presidents who did not mingle with women other than their wives. We all know he wasn't a good husband. I am personally prone to believing Jackie probably was more drawn in by the wealth anyways and she certainly had her share of questionable affairs, none the less, they were both very good at evoking hope at a very pivotal time in our country and that is why they are still spoken of so fiercely. I don't buy into the idea that either JFK or Jackie did not at some point question the shots they were given and come to some realization the shots may not be only vitamins. They were both intelligent individuals. The shots probably allowed them to maintain hectic schedules and many parties, although Jackie tended to get out of hosting political parties, it was a time without the advertising we have now, PR was very different then. I think it may have been very interesting if RFK would have won presidency.....I believe him to be the politician in the Kennedy family.
"one of the theories about Jackie's death is that she developed cancer from excessive use of black hair dyes."
Wouldn't fifty years of smoking be enough?
That's why I also don't know if you can really make the connection r1 makes between these amphetamine shots and cancer just because a lot of people who got the shots ended up with cancer. Seems like the type of person who would be consulting with Dr. Feelgood in the first place was already likely to be a heavy smoker, and also not likely to be somebody who was gonna quit smoking just because they started putting surgeon general warnings on packs.
There is probably a more direct connection between the vinarial disease JFK may have spread to numerous women than a direct connection between cancer and the amphetamine injections. I am sure the doctor was aware how addictive the injections would become, which meant supply and demand for him. However, many drugs deemed harmful now, simply weren't considered so then. Some were even deemed cutting edge break throughs for psychiatric illnesses.
[quote]I doubt there were many presidents who did not mingle with women other than their wives.
Nan Britton used to be in Warren G. Harding's office while Florence was upstairs in the White House. She would take the train to DC and a White House car would pick her up at Union Station. Florence demanded that a Secret Service agent be assigned to her. The reason is that she wanted the agent to alert her if he suspected that Nan was around.
One time, Wurr'n was screwing Nan in a closet in his office, when Flo somehow had a sense that Nan was around. Harding's admin. asst. delayed the First Lady outside the office while Nan was rushed out another door.
If you read about the goings on between the Hardings, it's like the script for a sitcom.
Florence Harding didn't like her husband's campaign manager. She took her hatpins and stabbed him in the thigh at the nominating convention. He was taken off in an ambulance.
Very interesting about Harding.......I may have to expand my fascination with JFK and M Monroe to the Hardings...any particular read better than another? That is what I meant by that statement above. Most did things, as well as fed up wives. Some cared more about it remaining secretive. JFK's as guys didn't know if he was alive until the morning after most escapades with women who were not cleared in any way....no info on these women if something did happen. Seems very irrational by today's standards, back then no qurstions asked. There was a reply towards top that stated he was a friend of the presidents and JFK would inject him.....is Lem Billings still alive? I am pretty sure he passed on fairly early. Anyone know?
Injectable amphetamines were withdrawn from the market in 1972 and production quotas established for oral forms.
That's why today no one, even with a legimate prescription, can easily refill amphetamines toward the end of the year. All the pharmacies have run out.
In the early 1970s, amphetamines became a bar sinister, despite their many uses. Pharmaceutical amphetamines are so rare on the black market that "meth labs" have become endemic, hardly helping the reputation of a neglected class of drugs.
Lem Billings died in 1981, r52.
Do we think JFK ever allowed the gay and clearly-in-love-with-him Lem to suck his cock? If not, it must have been sort of exquisite torture for him having to spend decades watching JFK stick it in every single woman who came along, and never getting his own chance at it.
Was he making passes at the Kennedy teens and twentysomethings he was taking trips with and doing drugs with in the years after RFK's death?
I heard this on Coast to Coast radio. Supposedly, JFK was hooked on meth (from Dr. Max Jacobson) and at one time was running around the hallway naked. They knew that he was incapable of being President, because he almost started WWIII. Thus, might have been the reason he was assassinated.
The book is out, and they're going to make a film about it.
Thanks for the brutality on Lem?.
I read an interesting book by a lady who was supposedly led to believe she was getting special placement based on her scientific genius. She was placed into a covert program with Lee Oswald and her story was Lee was trying to get Castro for our government and she was part of trying to produce an injection that would do the trick. She was anaware of this in the beginning. She provides documentation supporting her claim. It is an interesting take on it all.
The term its a small world after all genuinely applies to the assassination of JFK. It seems too ironic that most of the players were involved with one another in some way. I suppose it will remain a mystery unless more concrete evidence is revealed to solve it.
LONG article from "The Atlantic" (so you know it's well-researched) on JFK's medical history.
An interesting side note on JKF's back ailments: he wrapped himself, on a daily basis with a back brace - and not just a general wraparound type. It was secured tightly, and doubled and was wrapped almost in a diaper-like fashion around his upper thighs, as well. He was especially "wrapped" this tight if his day called for sitting for periods of time at a formal &/or state dinners or motorcades, etc. He was wrapped as such, and quite tightly, in Dallas (as he was going from city to city during the Texas trip, breakfast in Ft Worth to motorcade in Dallas to lunch at the Trade Mart, onto the LBJ Ranch after that and so forth. The Texas trip, let alone Nov 22 specifically, required a lot of of standing, sitting, and therefore lots of back support. If you ever see footage of him coming down the steps of Air Force One or any plane for that matter, he usually would walk down almost sideways, as his back could not support or tolerate a straight walk down steps.
What this all boils down to is (and what is clearly captured on the Zapruder film) is when he was hit with the fatal head shot, as he fell to his left, because of how he was "wrapped" in his back braces, he simply did not slump over, like perhaps in a "rag doll" type of collapse, he fell to the left in a still prone position. It has been argued that had he not been wrapped so tightly for support for his back, he may have collapsed within himself and his body may have went a bit more limp into his seated position, falling quicker to the seat of the the car, as opposed to being more exposed prior to the fatal head shot, allowing the shooter (don't get me started on THAT) to have easier access to target the fatal blow. And on a still prone, albeit sideways, moving target.
Yes, yes, I know, I was not there and do not know if his back brace situation would have or have not saved his life. However, it is quite evident in the Zapruder film that he did fall almost straight to the left, without a possible natural slump one may incur upon the injuries he had already sustained before having his head blown off. He apparently was aware he was shot after the first bullet hit, as the driver heard him say: "My God, I am hit'. Also, possibly due to even mere shock, he for a a split second, couldn't move, and the back brace "theory" perhaps made him an easier moving target than excepted. Of course, the shooter(s) could not have possibly known this, but, combined with the lax security measures, it happened to be another advantage the assassin(s) had on that day.
There is no reason two shooters would be needed to accomplish the shots that Oswald fired.
[R62] And your reasoning is based on what?
the shots look like they come from different directions.
Kennedy was amazing that he was able to function at such a high level with that severe chronic pain and with the side affects from his medications.
So JFK was basically Jesse Pinkman.
I read the book and, wow, what was surprising was the sad story of Bob Cummings, whom I used to watch on TV when I was a kid. He was a funny, easygoing man who turned into a monstrous speed freak thanks to Max Jacobson. Julie Newmar who starred in his show with him said, by that time (mid-60s), he was an angry bitter man who sabotaged his own career.
Jacobson and JFK went everywhere together. He needed shots every few hours when he was trying to work out the Cuban Missile Crisis. Truman Capote turned all of his swans and their friends on to Dr. Feelgood.
Dead, most of 'em.
PS, just realized this book was written by the very same Rick Lertzman, upstring. I don't know if he's still around DL, but it was a very good book. Well-researched, well-written, and devastating when you think how much this quack got away with.