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Slate writer rewatches "Friends" and realizes 20 years too late that it sucks

I realized that the first time I tried to watch an episode.

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by Anonymousreply 277July 5, 2018 1:55 AM

Me too. I couldn't even sit through one episode.

by Anonymousreply 1May 18, 2015 5:58 PM

Agreed. I knew the show sucked when I was 11.

by Anonymousreply 2May 18, 2015 5:59 PM

The Slate "writer", the OP and R2 are assholes.

by Anonymousreply 3May 18, 2015 6:00 PM

R3 has painfully bad taste and is mocked behind her back.

by Anonymousreply 4May 18, 2015 6:05 PM

[quote]The Slate "writer", the OP and [R2] demonstrate both good taste and cultural sensitivity.

Fixed.

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by Anonymousreply 5May 18, 2015 6:05 PM

It's sort of like watching the Clintons now.

by Anonymousreply 6May 18, 2015 6:07 PM

They're not the only ones:

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by Anonymousreply 7May 18, 2015 6:08 PM

They stole our basic concept, too, but no one ever mentions that.

by Anonymousreply 8May 18, 2015 6:09 PM

I felt uncomfortable watching it when I was 20, when it was on air. It made me feel embarrassed for those who liked it so much. Mainly straight women, of course, who watched to get clothing and hair style tips I think. That dopey, klutzy, schmaltzy slapstick humor wore thin, very fast for me.

by Anonymousreply 9May 18, 2015 6:11 PM

This article, too.

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by Anonymousreply 10May 18, 2015 6:11 PM

Friends was decently entertaining and I find it a pleasant enough distraction when it is on. Why it became such a phenomenon I will NEVER understand however.

by Anonymousreply 11May 18, 2015 6:13 PM

At least [italic]Mike and Molly[/italic] directs its fat jokes at actual fat people.

by Anonymousreply 12May 18, 2015 6:14 PM

"Friends" was basically a flyover fantasy version of what life in NYC was like. It was NYC for middle America. It bore no actual resemblance to living in NYC then or now.

I've been stopped by tourists several times over the years and asked where Central Perk is.

And that huge apartment was fucking ridiculous, even for a tv show.

by Anonymousreply 13May 18, 2015 6:15 PM

[quote]It made me feel embarrassed for those who liked it so much.

I used to be embarrassed. Now I'm just fucking disgusted. If they took this show out of circulation forever like they did to [italic]Amos 'n' Andy[/italic]. But at least that show showed there actually WERE people of color in New York.

by Anonymousreply 14May 18, 2015 6:16 PM

Cultural sensitivity aside, the actual comedy writing was just plain bad. I could never get into the lowest common denominator shtick: Monica dances with turkey on head, etc. It was always made painfully obvious why you should be laughing because the audience was never trusted to figure anything out, but I say this as a fan of comedic subtlety. In other words, the writing had no tact which is what ultimately put me off.

by Anonymousreply 15May 18, 2015 6:20 PM

[quote]I've been stopped by tourists several times over the years and asked where Central Perk is.

That speaks volumes about this show and its audience.

R13: Was [italic]Seinfeld[/italic] any more accurate?

by Anonymousreply 16May 18, 2015 6:21 PM

[quote]Monica dances with turkey on head, etc.

I did it better.

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by Anonymousreply 17May 18, 2015 6:22 PM

It was just a comedy

by Anonymousreply 18May 18, 2015 6:27 PM

I can't watch it anymore, but I remember originally being very annoyed by how short the scenes were, and the annoying music that marks the end of each scene.

Let's just say dialogue wasn't a big part of the formula.

by Anonymousreply 19May 18, 2015 6:27 PM

I don't know why they even bothered to set this show in NY. All of those characters were pure LA.

by Anonymousreply 20May 18, 2015 6:28 PM

It wasn't horrible, but if I saw five sitcoms and was asked okay, guess which one was a HUGE phenomenon and if I were told FRIENDS I would have said, 'oh...really?'

A few funny moments were Rachel hanging up the phone after listening to Ross and Julie do cutesy talk about who was going to hang up first.

A lot of stuff with Phoebe.

I thought Joey was funny, too.

But Monica, Ross and Chandler. Not too funny.

by Anonymousreply 21May 18, 2015 6:30 PM

[quote]It was just a comedy

Then how come I'm not laughing? Even if you take this issue out of it, it's still not funny. It would have to be 100 times better than it is to be mediocre. This show isn't funny, the acting is terrible, and anyone who likes it is just contributing to the decline of human intelligence.

by Anonymousreply 22May 18, 2015 6:31 PM

You could say that about any comedy on TV, R22.

by Anonymousreply 23May 18, 2015 6:36 PM

When Friends was in it's heyday, I was in the midst of building my career and working my ass off.

I remember watching the show (often from a hotel room since I traveled over 40 weeks each year) and being very irritated about how much time they all had to lounge around and talk together.

Especially in NYC---that is a fast-paced place. And let's not even get into how unrealistic those apartments would be...

by Anonymousreply 24May 18, 2015 6:38 PM

[quote]You could say that about any comedy on TV, [R22].

Bah. Even in the aesthetically dismal 1990s, there were better sitcoms. [italic]The Simpsons[/italic] was in its prime then. And there are plenty of shows before and after that that still make me laugh. This just isn't one of them. If its popularity were proportionate to its quality, it would never have made it past the pilot stage.

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by Anonymousreply 25May 18, 2015 6:40 PM

[quote]And let's not even get into how unrealistic those apartments would be...

Frankly, [italic]Three's Company[/italic] was more believable in this respect; Jack and his roomates were always hard-up for cash because he was a student.

And what I found laughable was the attempts to defend it by calling it "feminist." Did they not know about the sexual harassment lawsuit against some of the writers?

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by Anonymousreply 26May 18, 2015 6:43 PM

Britain is going to be a fatwa on this writer's head!

by Anonymousreply 27May 18, 2015 6:43 PM

Could the OP BE anymore jealous?

by Anonymousreply 28May 18, 2015 6:49 PM

Bing? Could a name BE worse?

by Anonymousreply 29May 18, 2015 6:54 PM

[quote]Britain is going to be a fatwa on this writer's head!

That's part of why England in decline: they look at this show and they think Americans are like this. When I went to England in the 1990s, I was mortified and embarrassed by this show's popularity and felt like apologizing for it on behalf of America.

R28: Claiming jealousy is a weak non-argument. The content of this show is way beyond offensive both in concept and execution.

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by Anonymousreply 30May 18, 2015 6:57 PM

[quote]Bing? Could a name BE worse?

I'll whip you with my belt for that, you little punk!

by Anonymousreply 31May 18, 2015 6:58 PM

Joey made me retroactively hate [italic]Who's The Boss?[/italic] as well. It ran 8 years when it was new, and I never cared for it even as a child though I watched most of the major 1980s sitcoms at some point, but they seldom rerun it and the season 1 DVD was a bomb. Now I can't stand it either. Then I realized Joey idolized Tony Danza.

by Anonymousreply 32May 18, 2015 7:05 PM

When I was in junior high, me & my friends would get together on Thursday nights to watch My So Called Life & New York Undercover but there was always one person who wanted watch Friends, Mad About You & Seinfeld and it was always a fight. MSCL always won.

by Anonymousreply 33May 18, 2015 7:09 PM

I'm whiter than you, now! *big, broad, toothy smile*

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by Anonymousreply 34May 18, 2015 7:10 PM

Calling it "Must-See TV" is a bit fascistic, don't you think?

by Anonymousreply 35May 18, 2015 7:11 PM

I thought it sucked when it originally aired. I think I maybe watched one full episode and that was enough for me.

by Anonymousreply 36May 18, 2015 7:16 PM

Speaking of Tony Danza.

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by Anonymousreply 37May 18, 2015 7:16 PM

There was a MAD TV sketch once where Phil LaMarr played a loser who pretends all the characters actually are his friends. It wasn't one of their best, but it was still funnier than the actual show itself by default.

That whole "Must See TV" ad line was fascistic to the core; it essentially said "you must watch this or else." Luckily, there was no enforcement mechanism in place to make us watch. What am I being deprived of by not watching these shows other than unfunny jokes told by narcissistic creeps. When the last episode aired, NBC did ads calling it the "Best Sitcom Ever." Bullshit. It certainly wasn't better than [italic]Seinfeld[/italic] or [italic]Frasier[/italic] or even [italic]Everybody Loves Raymond[/italic], and certainly not anywhere near [italic]The Simpsons[/italic] in its prime. Even if you made every other sitcom in history disappear, it would still be the absolute nadir of Western Civilization. All the time you spend watching it is just depriving yourself of watching something actually funny or interesting, or better yet, doing something productive with your life.

by Anonymousreply 38May 18, 2015 7:18 PM

Well, it wasn't really for DLers; it was for conventional heteros.

by Anonymousreply 39May 18, 2015 7:22 PM

Fiends.

by Anonymousreply 40May 18, 2015 7:24 PM

Take away the Muppets and [italic]Sesame Street[/italic] is a more accurate picture of New York.

by Anonymousreply 41May 18, 2015 7:26 PM

The pretension is strong in this thread.

by Anonymousreply 42May 18, 2015 7:28 PM

"Pretentious" is a word the provincial like to use a lot to dismiss things and concepts they are not yet ready to comprehend.

by Anonymousreply 43May 18, 2015 7:32 PM

I preferred when the British tried to copy it but made it funnier and called the show "Coupling"

by Anonymousreply 44May 18, 2015 7:34 PM

[quote]I preferred when the British tried to copy it but made it funnier and called the show "Coupling"

It couldn't possibly be ANY worse.

by Anonymousreply 45May 18, 2015 7:36 PM

I agree, R42. I watched Friends,not fanatically but often enough, and found it funny. It went on too long and it was annoying when it focused too much on the romantic relationships between Ross and Rachel then Monica and Chandler. But it was usually funny and occasionally witty. It wasn't great, but most sit-coms aren't great and even the very best are still just sit-coms.

It seems pointless to pile on the hatred for it now, when its success is both assured and long behind us.

by Anonymousreply 46May 18, 2015 7:36 PM

R43, I understand this shallow nonsense of a "concept" just fine.

by Anonymousreply 47May 18, 2015 7:40 PM

R42 [italic]still[/italic] doesn't get what pretension means. Even though the clue is in the word.

Poor dear.

by Anonymousreply 48May 18, 2015 7:40 PM

[quote]It seems pointless to pile on the hatred for it now, when its success is both assured and long behind us.

It's still being shoved down our throats while superior shows are being ignored. Saying "don't watch it" is like saying, "if you don't like the quality of the air, hold your breath." Warner Bros. is just sitting on a bunch of shows they don't seem to want to do anything with, yet they'll find new ways to repackage this crap?

[quote]It went on too long and it was annoying

This is the only true thing R46 said.

by Anonymousreply 49May 18, 2015 7:48 PM

Can you people [italic]be[/italic] anymore critical?

by Anonymousreply 50May 18, 2015 7:55 PM

Can that tired catchphrase be ANY less funny?

by Anonymousreply 51May 18, 2015 7:57 PM

I thought even Will & Grace was much more clever and fun. A much better example of a sitcom that isn't highbrow or pretentious, but still fun to watch and has aged much better than Friends.

by Anonymousreply 52May 18, 2015 7:59 PM

W&G was just the gay version of [italic]Friends[/italic].

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by Anonymousreply 53May 18, 2015 8:02 PM

I actually like Friends, but think that Rachel and Phoebe could be very vindictive and manipulative at times.

by Anonymousreply 54May 18, 2015 8:02 PM

God I hate the directive PC loons. Fuck off already.

by Anonymousreply 55May 18, 2015 8:04 PM

R54: Why would anyone want to have vindictive, manipulative people as friends in the first place? That's one of many reasons why this show is a complete artistic failure.

by Anonymousreply 56May 18, 2015 8:04 PM

"PC" is Freeper for "simple human decency."

by Anonymousreply 57May 18, 2015 8:05 PM

R56 - That the characters have flaws does not make the show a complete artistic failure.

by Anonymousreply 58May 18, 2015 8:07 PM

It seems that a lot of 90's shows set in NYC showed a pretty "whitewashed" version of what the city was actually like. There was a joke at the time wondering exactly *what* city Caroline was in, since it didn't look anything like NYC.

by Anonymousreply 59May 18, 2015 8:07 PM

You fuck off too, r57. Are you seriously telling me you haven't made a racist remark, called out the michfest loons, bitched about fraus, said "drop the T" and not called out the trannies for the manifesto drive psychos that they are? If so, just go to the fucking Vatican, this pope won't be around much longer.

by Anonymousreply 60May 18, 2015 8:10 PM

BTW, r61, I have never used troll-dar before but for some reason your reply made me want to. You are WAY too heavily invested in this thread.

by Anonymousreply 61May 18, 2015 8:12 PM

Ditto r2, except I was 13 when the show first came on.

by Anonymousreply 62May 18, 2015 8:20 PM

The set was so BRIGHT. And that theme song. It was nascent Prozac TV. Those characters were people you moved to NYC to escape from. Of course, those days of escaping to New York for urbanity, insiderness and street style are long evaporated. But back then, it existed but was nowhere represented on this irritating show.

The grossest part was the ad campaign, "Who's your favorite 'Friend'?" that kicked in when it went into syndication.

by Anonymousreply 63May 18, 2015 8:21 PM

I have been bagging on Friends, but I do remember at least three scenes that made me laugh, so that's something.

1. When Ross was going to drink the fat for Rachel.

2. When Phoebe "got the hummus".

3. When Monica left a message for Richard (Magnum PI) and was trying to act casual, and said "I'm breezy".

by Anonymousreply 64May 18, 2015 8:23 PM

It used to be that PC was rightwingers attacking anything not rightwing. But PC has expanded into utter madness and things that are just as rightwing or more than the rightwing ie trans activists attacking gay people and women.

by Anonymousreply 65May 18, 2015 8:23 PM

It was cute in the beginning, but it wore out its welcome fast. How many times did Ross and Rachel break up? That awful "We were on a break!" catchphrase. Ross became the male Ann Romano in terms of just being a generally unlikeable television character. Joey could have been played by Tony Danza and gotten the exact same reaction.

It also started the trend of television actors getting astronomical salaries. No fucking way should they have been paid a million dollars an episode for this. (and yes, I'm aware that NBC was in the beginning of its decline when they consented) Still, NBC should have given them the Suzanne Somers treatment.

by Anonymousreply 66May 18, 2015 8:24 PM

I hated that awful theme song, which was a big radio hit and played every five minutes.

by Anonymousreply 67May 18, 2015 8:26 PM

R65, what would trans activists today make of Chandler's dad, as played by Kathleen Turner?

by Anonymousreply 68May 18, 2015 8:26 PM

I hated it and avoided it when it was on, not 20 years later. Now is the time to hate REALITY TV, which is worse than Friends ever was. Actually I watched a couple of episodes when I was really sick and I thought the Joey and Phoebe characters were kind of funny. I also hated Seinfeld at the time, but when I was sick I watched a couple of episodes. I thought the Elaine character was a bit funny. I avoided those two shows at the time because everyone else watched them. I also avoided Will & Grace, and yes, watched a couple of episodes when I was sick.

by Anonymousreply 69May 18, 2015 8:27 PM

I always thought Friends sucked.

by Anonymousreply 70May 18, 2015 8:29 PM

I only watched Will and Grace for Karen. If the Karen character wasn't on that show, I never would've watched it at all.

by Anonymousreply 71May 18, 2015 8:30 PM

R68, I didn't watch the show so I did not know KT played his dad. That sounds kind of funny - was it? I guess the trans activists would like it because they like to claim trans are everywhere but they would be angry and want to kill everyone involved in the show and employed by the network because it was not played by a crazed trans.

by Anonymousreply 72May 18, 2015 8:31 PM

The show sucked. I think it was a big hit with straight females and dude bros.

by Anonymousreply 73May 18, 2015 8:31 PM

[quote]Saying "don't watch it" is like saying, "if you don't like the quality of the air, hold your breath."

Good lord, Mary; take a pill. FRIENDS is a piece of shit but it was easy to avoid watching it during its primetime run and even easier now; not watching it has exactly nothing in common with not breathing.

by Anonymousreply 74May 18, 2015 8:34 PM

I loved Will and Grace and still do.

by Anonymousreply 75May 18, 2015 8:34 PM

[quote]That the characters have flaws does not make the show a complete artistic failure.

You are right. The fact that the show is poorly written and acted and completely unfunny makes. Lots of sitcom characters are flawed: Archie Bunker, George Jefferson, Ted Baxter, Maude Findlay, Dorothy Zbornak, Julia Sugarbaker, Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin, etc. But the difference is that they are interesting characters. No one on this show is interesting in the slightest; in fact, they're people I would go out of my way to actively avoid in real life.

And Jennifer Aniston is a talentless lying cunt. Who did she fuck to get her undeserved A-list status?

by Anonymousreply 76May 18, 2015 8:37 PM

[quote]Now is the time to hate REALITY TV, which is worse than Friends ever was.

If it hadn't been for [italic]Friends[/italic] and its disastrous creative legacy, we might have been spared from the glut of "reality" TV shows in the first place.

by Anonymousreply 77May 18, 2015 8:38 PM

I loved the show growing up (was in high school at the time and discussed the episode with all my friends on Friday mornings) and I own all 10 seasons on DVD.

The characters were lovable and often hysterical. Stuff like the trivia game for the apartment swap is timeless, along with the Thanksgiving episodes. I can still hear Phoebe saying, "What I wouldn't give to be that can of...sweetened condensed milk," when she's lusting after Monica and Ross' father.

It's a classic sitcom and one of the greatest comedies ever to be on television. Right up there with Seinfeld, Arrested Development, Modern Family, Veep, Frasier, New Girl and The Mindy Project.

by Anonymousreply 78May 18, 2015 8:39 PM

[quote]what would trans activists today make of Chandler's dad, as played by Kathleen Turner?

Well, I certainly know what I would do.

by Anonymousreply 79May 18, 2015 8:39 PM

Did "Friends" really have much of a gay/lesbian following during its original run? As far as I can remember, the only people who really seemed to be into the show were straight women. I can't recall many gay guys/lesbians liking the show very much, or straight guys liking it either.

On the flip side of that, "The X-Files" was a whole other story. HUGE gay/lesbian/straight guy viewership.

by Anonymousreply 80May 18, 2015 8:40 PM

I liked it before I saw all the other NYC set sitcoms of the time and realised how unfunny and 'unspecial' Friends was... 6 white folks with cutesy catchphrases / inside jokes and sugary sweet romantic plot lines. Yawn.

Seinfeld and Fraiser were always better written and wittier, their 'situations' were actually comedic and well thought out. Will and Grace had more adult humour and then-obscure pop culture references for nerds like me (plus the best cast and guest actors), The Nanny had the most fun factor and inventive costumes and the ethnic edge to it, and the underrated Becker had a refreshing Bronx griminess, actual multiculturalism, and cynical attitude that was the closest to the real NYC (and actually had something to say about 9/11's effect on the city, the healthcare system, gentrification, etc. without being preachy).

When you see what else was on TV at the time, Friends is embarrassingly lightweight and really quite unfunny. I think it's more for kids and hetero women with simple taste. Harmless, but not very good.

by Anonymousreply 81May 18, 2015 8:41 PM

[quote]If it hadn't been for Friends and its disastrous creative legacy, we might have been spared from the glut of "reality" TV shows in the first place.

Hogwash. Reality TV caught on because it's cheap to produce and limits the number of people who are owed residuals.

by Anonymousreply 82May 18, 2015 8:42 PM

R78: Have you ever watched anything made before 1990? It's nothing compared to [italic]I Love Lucy, All in the Family, The Mary Tyler Moore Show, The Bob Newhart Show, Maude, Sanford and Son, The Jeffersons, Mary Hartman Mary Hartman, Soap, Cheers, Newhart, The Golden Girls, Designing Women, The Simpsons, King of the Hill[/italic] and [italic]Futurama[/italic].

[quote]The characters were lovable and often hysterical.

Ross cheated on his girlfriend becase he thought they were on hiatus. Tee fucking hee.

by Anonymousreply 83May 18, 2015 8:45 PM

All of my gay friends love(d) Friends. I never thought it was just for straight women. Gays had a diva to worship in Aniston as well. When she finally won that well deserved Emmy you could hear all of Chelsea cheering.

by Anonymousreply 84May 18, 2015 8:47 PM

[quote]Hogwash. Reality TV caught on because it's cheap to produce and limits the number of people who are owed residuals.

It's cheaper to produce because writers' and actors' salaries got out of control.

[quote]When you see what else was on TV at the time, Friends is embarrassingly lightweight and really quite unfunny. I think it's more for kids and hetero women with simple taste. Harmless, but not very good.

I agree with all your criticisms of the show, but I disagree that it is harmless. Bad art is always harmful, and the messages people receive from mass media actually have an effect on their lives. People repeat jokes they hear on TV and they absorb the underlying ideas and incorporate them into their belief systems.

by Anonymousreply 85May 18, 2015 8:48 PM

Will and Grace blows it out of the water, but whining about a show that's been off the air for so long because of "white privilege" is just embarrassing.

And what "ethnic edge" and inventive costumes did the Nanny have R81? J.ews are ethnic? Monica and Ross were J.ews.

by Anonymousreply 86May 18, 2015 8:48 PM

I know plenty of other gays who hate its guts and with goddamn good reason:

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by Anonymousreply 87May 18, 2015 8:48 PM

Love Lisa Kudrow, but never saw an episode of Friends.

Read that she was offered the role of "Roz" on Frasier, and chose instead to take "Phoebe" on Friends.

The writing on Friends sounds so bad, I wonder whether she ever regretted her decision.

To put it another way, "Valerie Cherish" probably found a lot of its inspiration in the Friends experience.

Regardless, she would have been made a very wealthy woman.

by Anonymousreply 88May 18, 2015 8:49 PM

R83, I've tried watching some of those older shows and the only one I've liked was the Golden Girls- well and The Simpsons sometimes too.

The others seem corny and super dated.

We are in the golden age of television now.

by Anonymousreply 89May 18, 2015 8:49 PM

R83 Great mention of Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman. A one of a kind show that is STILL ahead of its time.

by Anonymousreply 90May 18, 2015 8:49 PM

[quote]And that huge apartment was fucking ridiculous, even for a tv show.

They do exist in NYC, a friend of mine had a family apartment that was bigger than that but they had lived there since the 60's on the Upper West Side with rent control.

by Anonymousreply 91May 18, 2015 8:49 PM

This thread will never be as epic as SJP's most disgusting S&TC moments.

by Anonymousreply 92May 18, 2015 8:52 PM

It took them 20 years? Never did care for it. The last 20 years many have tried to turn some into true stars. Think Jennifer Anniston, has she eer had a hit and she is in the autumn of her life. She's ready for grandma roles.

by Anonymousreply 93May 18, 2015 8:53 PM

R86 my bad, I more meant that it used a kind of cultural comedy, with the religious jokes, 'yenta' references... that culture clash that helped it stand out. And it had some of the most creative costumes on a contemporary show to this day... just one example I saw recently.

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by Anonymousreply 94May 18, 2015 8:54 PM

[italic]The Nanny[/italic] was actually funny and had some of the best scripts and acting out of any show of the decade and a strong gay sensibility that blows W&G out of the water; it was like a 1980s sitcom without the Very Special Episodes. [italic]Cybill[/italic] was more believable in its depictions of working actors and Je.wish men (one of her exes, the one who wasn't Tom Wopat, was one). And unlike this show, it is funny. [italic]Family Guy[/italic] has a deeper knowledge of pop culture, including showtunes; it's basically all they have.

[quote]Will and Grace blows it out of the water, but whining about a show that's been off the air for so long because of "white privilege" is just embarrassing.

Every other sitcom in history is better (name an allegedly worse one and I'll point out why it's better, even if it sucks in and of itself), but dismissing these criticisms as being "whining" says nothing about them and everything about you. And this show isn't really "off the air." They just stopped making new episodes. It's still in reruns in a lot of places and on Netflix while countless superior shows from the past are available nowhere.

[quote]And what "ethnic edge" and inventive costumes did the Nanny have [R81]? J.ews are ethnic? Monica and Ross were J.ews.

Did they have to make Ross so weak and ineffectual, an offensive stereotype of Je wish men? No, they did not. And Courteney Cox is neither Je wish nor convincing as a former fat girl.

by Anonymousreply 95May 18, 2015 8:55 PM

My God, is this what DL has become? A bunch of losers whining about a show that has been off the air for a decade?

(And Lisa Kudrow was let go from Frasier and recast. She didn't pick Friends over Frasier.)

by Anonymousreply 96May 18, 2015 8:56 PM

[quote]The others seem corny and super dated.

Then you have baby tastes and nothing you have to say will be taken seriously. Begone, troll.

by Anonymousreply 97May 18, 2015 8:57 PM

It's not "off the air." If it were truly "off the air," you wouldn't be able to see it anywhere, which is as it should be.

by Anonymousreply 98May 18, 2015 8:58 PM

[quote](And Lisa Kudrow was let go from Frasier and recast.)

She wasn't good enough for them, huh?

by Anonymousreply 99May 18, 2015 8:59 PM

[quote]My God, is this what DL has become? A bunch of losers whining about a show that has been off the air for a decade?

Two words: Joan Crawford

by Anonymousreply 100May 18, 2015 8:59 PM

[quote](And Lisa Kudrow was let go from Frasier and recast. She didn't pick Friends over Frasier.)

Thanks, r96.

by Anonymousreply 101May 18, 2015 9:00 PM

She wasn't right for the part, r99. These things happen in casting.

by Anonymousreply 102May 18, 2015 9:02 PM

I'm not a troll. Just because I prefer Friends and Arrested Development to Bob Newhart and Designing Women doesn't make me an idiot or you right.

As Ethel Merman was told by Fernando Lamas during Happy Hunting rehearsals: That doesn't make you right. It just makes you old.

by Anonymousreply 103May 18, 2015 9:03 PM

Why did Frasier let Lisa go?

by Anonymousreply 104May 18, 2015 9:03 PM

Nobody from this show is right for any part in anything.

by Anonymousreply 105May 18, 2015 9:03 PM

[quote]I'm not a troll. Just because I prefer Friends and Arrested Development to Bob Newhart and Designing Women doesn't make me an idiot or you right.

No, it means you have a bias towards new shows because they are new, which demonstrates an appalling lack of creativity and taste.

And Fernando Lamas was a homophobe.

by Anonymousreply 106May 18, 2015 9:07 PM

OP is the 'confuse Salon for Slate' troll

by Anonymousreply 107May 18, 2015 9:09 PM

[quote]Did they have to make Ross so weak and ineffectual, an offensive stereotype of Je wish men? No, they did not. And Courteney Cox is neither Je wish nor convincing as a former fat girl.

I said the CHARACTERS were J.ews, not the actors. Ross was a stereotype? If you say so. Seemed like typical white nerd to me.

If Friends was SOOOO offensive then why did no one say anything at the time? Can one really take several decades to realize that one has been offended and still expect to be taken seriously?

by Anonymousreply 108May 18, 2015 9:09 PM

Modern Family's success is even more baffling than Friends ever was. I don't think it's a bad show, but it's as one note and derivative as any sitcom has ever been. At least with Friends, you have some character and plot changes. You've seen one episode of Modern Family, you've seen them all.

Veep is Elaine Benes in the White House. Faux intellectual masturbation material.

Seinfeld is good, but a bandwagon show. People pat themselves on the back by mentioning how great it is.

by Anonymousreply 109May 18, 2015 9:09 PM

Holy shit, R106 is invested in his hatred. A third -- ONE THIRD -- of the posts in this thread are from him.

by Anonymousreply 110May 18, 2015 9:10 PM

[quote]"Friends" was basically a flyover fantasy version of what life in NYC was like. It was NYC for middle America

Nailed it. It was a show meant for flyovers to give them some silly fantasy of being hip New Yorkers. The humor was very low brow most of the time, it was never meant to be anything especially clever.

by Anonymousreply 111May 18, 2015 9:10 PM

[quote]OP is the 'confuse Salon for Slate' troll

There are links to criticisms Salon in the article. I've never been able to tell the difference in anything other than the name.

by Anonymousreply 112May 18, 2015 9:11 PM

R5 Please die.

by Anonymousreply 113May 18, 2015 9:13 PM

R112 Oh my God... You've posted like fifty times. Take your meds!

by Anonymousreply 114May 18, 2015 9:14 PM

[quote] At least with Friends, you have some character and plot changes.

So they change from dark brown shit to light brown shit. Not impressed. Other shows that are better than [italic]Friends[/italic] do that too. [italic]Soap[/italic] and [italic]Cheers[/italic] did continuing stories in a sitcom before and far, far, FAR better.

[italic]Modern Family[/italic] had an exceptionally strong first season and is still better than all the blended family shows that came before it but to which they definitely owe a huge debt of gratitude for laying the foundation for it. I take it you just don't like self-contained stories. That's not a sufficient reason to dismiss an entire show. Plenty of well-written shows don't try to copy soaps.

by Anonymousreply 115May 18, 2015 9:17 PM

[quote]Please die. reply 113

[quote]Oh my God... You've posted like fifty times. Take your meds! reply 114

I can't take my meds if I'm dead, now can I, R113/R114? Trolldar works both ways.

by Anonymousreply 116May 18, 2015 9:19 PM

[quote]Nailed it. It was a show meant for flyovers to give them some silly fantasy of being hip New Yorkers.

Imagine how disillusioned those flyovers would be to go to NYC and see how tedious and shallow real New Yorkers are. Of course they'd realize that most real New Yorkers don't go around making rainbow coalitions of ethnically diverse friends either, no matter what critics of this show say.

by Anonymousreply 117May 18, 2015 9:20 PM

[quote]Of course they'd realize that most real New Yorkers don't go around making rainbow coalitions of ethnically diverse friends either, no matter what critics of this show say.

Then they're racist, too. And if you want something that depicts people like that as they really are, watch [italic]All in the Family[/italic].

by Anonymousreply 118May 18, 2015 9:23 PM

R118, what is wrong with you?

You've filled up a third of this thread saying the same thing over and over and over again.

I can't stand Friends, but I hate people like you 10 times more.

by Anonymousreply 119May 18, 2015 9:27 PM

The fool who has filled up half of this thread is a race troll. This is another thread he just started "Fox News: Whites are genetically inferior to blacks".

by Anonymousreply 120May 18, 2015 9:29 PM

The only thing I like about Friends is the hatred for it in this thread. It was an intolerably smug shower of shit.

by Anonymousreply 121May 18, 2015 9:30 PM

The only thing I like about Friends is the hatred for it in this thread. It was an intolerably smug shower of shit.

by Anonymousreply 122May 18, 2015 9:30 PM

Amazingly, the actors from Mad About You were the first ones to get $1M per episode. Boy, that show disappeared off the face of the earth as soon as it went off the air. I don't think anyone watched it in syndication.

by Anonymousreply 123May 18, 2015 9:32 PM

[quote]I can't stand Friends, but I hate people like you 10 times more.

I am just fucking sick of tired of seeing bad art and bad artists get praised while genuinely taleted people do brilliant work that will only ever seen by a few people. Not only is it not fair, it is dangerous to the future of humanity and the arts. As long as people still believe the emperor is wearing clothes, I will keep pointing out his nakedness.

At least you hate this show, too, so that's a step in the right direction. Sitcoms today are where they should have been at in 1994 but weren't because of the popularity of this vile show and its sickeningly sweet cast of phonies.

by Anonymousreply 124May 18, 2015 9:33 PM

[quote]Amazingly, the actors from Mad About You were the first ones to get $1M per episode. Boy, that show disappeared off the face of the earth as soon as it went off the air. I don't think anyone watched it in syndication.

I never watched it. Once I heard they existed in the same universe as this show (apparently Phoebe had an identical cousin named Ursula who was on it and also played by Lisa K.; that's the same kind of gimmick [italic]The Brady Bunch[/italic] was resorting to right before it was cancelled).

by Anonymousreply 125May 18, 2015 9:34 PM

[quote]It was a show meant for flyovers to give them some silly fantasy of being hip New Yorkers.

Honey, anyone outside of the boroughs has not given NYC a second thought since 1980.

by Anonymousreply 126May 18, 2015 9:35 PM

[quote]I am just fucking sick of tired of seeing bad art and bad artists get praised while genuinely taleted people do brilliant work that will only ever seen by a few people.

No, you're just a goddamned elderly blowhard who thinks he knows everything.

by Anonymousreply 127May 18, 2015 9:36 PM

R123 - "Boy, that show disappeared off the face of the earth as soon as it went off the air."

I watched Mad About You a great deal during the early 00s.

by Anonymousreply 128May 18, 2015 9:36 PM

Friends probably owed much of its popularity to the fact that it was one of the first hit comedies that was not about Baby Boomers and it was not aimed at Baby Boomers. The last of the Baby Boomers turned thirty in 1994, and Friends was clearly aimed at people under thirty.

by Anonymousreply 129May 18, 2015 9:36 PM

[quote]Friends was clearly aimed at people under thirty.

Age or IQ?

by Anonymousreply 130May 18, 2015 9:37 PM

[quote]The only thing I like about Friends is the hatred for it in this thread. It was an intolerably smug shower of shit.

Agreed. There are funnier jokes in this thread alone.

by Anonymousreply 131May 18, 2015 9:37 PM

To those using the tired "let it go" line: when Warner Bros. lets it go, so will I. Building a coffee shop like the one there is not exactly letting it go.

[quote]No, you're just a goddamned elderly blowhard who thinks he knows everything.

Since you have (incorrectly) assumed I'm an old man, exactly how old do you think I am, R127?

I don't think I know everything, but I know what I know and I know what I don't know, and I know [italic]Friends[/italic] is the worst television show that ever was or ever will be. There have been plenty of bad TV shows over the years, but most are eventually lost to time. The few that succeed do so not because of actual interest but because they serve corporate agendas. As Tom Shales said when it was new:

"NBC's new sitcom "Friends" comes across like a 30-minute commercial for Dockers or Ikea or light beer, except it's smuttier. One character says he dreamed he had a telephone for a penis and when it rang, "it turns out it's my mother." And this is in the first five minutes. Another ghastly creation from professional panderers Marta Kauffman and David Crane, the witless duo who do "Dream On" for HBO, "Friends" is more a scripted talk show than a sitcom. You keep waiting for Sally Jessy or some other cluck to interrupt the jabbering. The show is so bad that Sally Jessy would actually come as a relief. … The stars include that cute Courteney Cox, formerly funny David Schwimmer, Lisa Kudrow, Matt LeBlanc and Matthew Perry. They all look nice, and it's sad to see them degrading themselves."

by Anonymousreply 132May 18, 2015 9:44 PM

R129 gets it. The show was the first sitcom aimed at Gen Xers. If you watch the first season, it is littered with cultural references that resonated with the Gen X crowd. And the show really got the idea that your friends are your family, which really resonated with Gen Xers, the first generation to really deal with family problems. So many of us were on our own, living away from our family, and our friends became our de facto family. It certainly wasn't a perfect show, and I didn't care for how many of the characters evolved (Ross became an idiot, Chandler became whipped, Monica became a shrew), but it still stuck to that core that this group of friends was a familial unit. I can't believe no one on this thread can see that (R129 excepted), but I find very little analysis in today's world. Just criticism for criticism's sake.

by Anonymousreply 133May 18, 2015 9:45 PM

I'm not r127, but I would guess 68 rising to 69.

by Anonymousreply 134May 18, 2015 9:47 PM

R129 and R133: That speaks volumes:

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by Anonymousreply 135May 18, 2015 9:48 PM

[quote]If you watch the first season, it is littered with cultural references that resonated with the Gen X crowd.

As if they were the first or last show to use a reference to [italic]Happy Days[/italic] in place of a joke. Pop culture references aren't jokes, and these days they're more like glorified DVD ads.

by Anonymousreply 136May 18, 2015 9:53 PM

R136, as if all shows across all genres don't make cultural references. I'd be curious to know what all of you naysayers consider superior comedy. Again, just criticism, but no real analysis.

by Anonymousreply 137May 18, 2015 10:00 PM

[quote] And the show really got the idea that your friends are your family, which really resonated with Gen Xers, the first generation to really deal with family problems. So many of us were on our own, living away from our family,

Oh yeah, that's right. No other generation ever had family problems, or moved out of their parents homes to live on their own when they were [italic] in their 20s. [/italic]

by Anonymousreply 138May 18, 2015 10:05 PM

Let's keep a tally. He's up to 46 posts so far.

by Anonymousreply 139May 18, 2015 10:12 PM

[quote]He's up to 46 posts so far.

That's not even half the thread. And if you think you can use the number of posts I have made to try and discredit me or any other critics of this show, that makes me laugh more than anything that show ever pulled out of its ass.

by Anonymousreply 140May 18, 2015 10:15 PM

Wow R138, I guess I need to add reading comprehension to lack of analysis as the failings of some posters. I wrote that Gen Xers were the first generation to deal with their family problems. Of course, those problems existed before that, but Gen X finally started to deal with them. Gen X was also the first generation to consider many of their friends as family. I guess reading comprehension and failure of analysis are probably tied together. So sad . . .

by Anonymousreply 141May 18, 2015 10:27 PM

[quote] Gen Xers, the first generation to really deal with family problems. So many of us were on our own, living away from our family,

Is this the same person who always claims that Halloween wasn't really a big holiday until "Roseanne" and The Simpsons came on TV and showed people dressing up and having Halloween parties?

My father was so coddled, going to war at age 17 after living through the depression. All those WWII, Korea and Vietnam vets didn't know how good they had it before the days when poor Gen Xers had to deal with family problems and live on their own. My grandparents couldn't go past grade 5 in school because they were needed on the farm, but hey, at least they didn't have real family problems.

My mother was forced to drop out of HS at age 16 to get a job to help support her parents and siblings (11 children). There was no welfare and no EBT in those days and not enough food in the house.

Glad she never knew the heartache of Gen X family problems, like who gets to pick the VHS the family is going to watch on tv tonight.

by Anonymousreply 142May 18, 2015 10:30 PM

[quote]So many of us were on our own, living away from our family

You mean like [italic]my[/italic] friends and I?

by Anonymousreply 143May 18, 2015 10:32 PM

It was popular with the female unmarrieds.

by Anonymousreply 144May 18, 2015 10:35 PM

R142 = Baby Boomer. Halloween's last great decade was the 1970s, when Gen Xers were children. No Gen Xers would need Roseanne or The Simpsons to remember Halloween parties.

Previous generations were a lot tougher physically, no doubt, but Gen Xers were the first to deal with emotional issues in their families. And anyone who thinks emotional problems included who gets to pick the VHS tapes the family is going to watch is sadly clueless.

by Anonymousreply 145May 18, 2015 10:36 PM

[quote]Gen Xers were the first to deal with emotional issues in their families

You should have written for that show. Maybe then it would have actually been funny because this made me laugh out loud. My dad is a baby boomer and when he was a kid, he and his family were told they could not buy a house in Dearborn, Michigan because they were Jéwísh.

by Anonymousreply 146May 18, 2015 10:39 PM

"Once I heard they existed in the same universe as this show..."

Then what? Or do you think that is a complete sentence?

by Anonymousreply 147May 18, 2015 11:12 PM

[quote]Then what? Or do you think that is a complete sentence?

Sorry. I'm following multiple things at once and sometimes I forget. What I meant to say is that I hated how they tried to tie the two shows in when they had different production companies. Usually, it's shows from the same studio that do these things. It sounds like something the network ordered instead of something that grew organically out of it.

by Anonymousreply 148May 18, 2015 11:46 PM

So loud, so bright.

by Anonymousreply 149May 18, 2015 11:52 PM

Lisa had a recurring role on Mad About You before Friends. They just continued that recurring role while she was on Friends.

Lisa also had done a fair bit of work before Friends.

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by Anonymousreply 150May 18, 2015 11:53 PM

The cast had amazing chemistry and they were instantly likeable and relatable to everyone in my generation.

The person who said it represented friends as family was dead on.

by Anonymousreply 151May 18, 2015 11:57 PM

She was good on an episode of Cheers. She was Woody's love interest in a play, and his girlfriend Kelly was jealous. Kelly confronted Lisa's character and it was funny.

Yes, there was the obligatory "rehearsing a kiss for the play" scene.

by Anonymousreply 152May 18, 2015 11:59 PM

[quote]Lisa also had done a fair bit of work before Friends.

I'm aware of that. Perhaps the connection turned off other people who disliked the show. I never watched [italic]Mad About You[/italic] to begin with. I lost interest in NBC's shows after Brandon Tartikoff left and Warren Littlefield replaced him.

Remember, the original article is coming from a former fan. To me, that says a lot.

by Anonymousreply 153May 19, 2015 12:09 AM

[quote]The cast had amazing chemistry

Almost like an H-bomb.

[quote]and they were instantly likeable and relatable to everyone in my generation.

So you can relate to selfish assholes. Lovely.

by Anonymousreply 154May 19, 2015 12:11 AM

R154 = More criticism without analysis.

by Anonymousreply 155May 19, 2015 12:15 AM

[quote] Gen Xers were the first to deal with emotional issues in their families

What an absurd statement.

by Anonymousreply 156May 19, 2015 12:16 AM

[quote]More criticism without analysis.

Analysis of the level you demand would give this show a level of aesthetic legitimacy it does not deserve. Joey is a moron, Rachel is a parasite, Ross is a coward, Monica is a cunt, Phoebe is an imbecile, and Chandler is a smug asshole. He broke up with a woman for not disliking Yanni. Most people don't give a damn about Yanni. I certainly don't. I am completely neutral about his existence. If I were a woman, he'd break up with me on those grounds. And I'd probably be better off.

Even if he were gay, I'd rather have someone a bit more macho, like Greg Kinnear.

by Anonymousreply 157May 19, 2015 12:24 AM

The writers' post-[italic]Friends[/italic] track record isn't too hot either:

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by Anonymousreply 158May 19, 2015 12:32 AM

[quote]If they took this show out of circulation forever like they did to Amos 'n' Andy. But at least that show showed there actually WERE people of color in New York.

Amos 'n Andy had fantastic actors and good writers. It was a hundred times better than Sanford and Son. .

by Anonymousreply 159May 19, 2015 12:36 AM

The only show in history that owes its success to a theme song [italic]and[/italic] a hair cut.

by Anonymousreply 160May 19, 2015 12:40 AM

R157, saying someone a bit more macho, like Greg Kinnear, loses all credibility wit that statement This seems like a thread full of Friends-Haters, with no legitimate criticism, just opinions. But in the special snowflake generation, opinions equal thoughtful analysis. Um, no, they don't.

by Anonymousreply 161May 19, 2015 12:42 AM

Tell that to the NAACP, R159. They gushed over [italic]The Cosby Show[/italic] and hated every black sitcom before that and most of the ones after that. And you wonder why it's hard for actors — especially actors of color — to get work?

by Anonymousreply 162May 19, 2015 12:43 AM

[quote]The only show in history that owes its success to a theme song and a hair cut.

One out of two isn't terrible.

by Anonymousreply 163May 19, 2015 12:43 AM

carbon copy of living single

by Anonymousreply 164May 19, 2015 12:45 AM

[quote]Analysis of the level you demand would give this show a level of aesthetic legitimacy it does not deserve. Joey is a moron, Rachel is a parasite, Ross is a coward, Monica is a cunt, Phoebe is an imbecile, and Chandler is a smug asshole. He broke up with a woman for not disliking Yanni. Most people don't give a damn about Yanni. I certainly don't. I am completely neutral about his existence. If I were a woman, he'd break up with me on those grounds. And I'd probably be better off.

So clearly you're one of those people who hates a show so much they watch it constantly.

by Anonymousreply 165May 19, 2015 12:50 AM

[quote]saying someone a bit more macho, like Greg Kinnear, loses all credibility wit that statement

That was not meant to be taken literally. No wonder you like that show. Though in all honestly

[quote]This seems like a thread full of Friends-Haters, with no legitimate criticism, just opinions.

There's plenty of substantial criticism in this thread but you [italic]Friends[/italic]-loving sheep rejected it all and stuck your fingers in your ears and sang "La La La La La."

And "special snowflake" is an ableist slur. That's the type of mentality I expect from [italic]Friends[/italic] fans. When it was on the air I was called horrible things, insulted and threatened just for saying that I hate this show and I think it's terrible. I still think it's worthless crap.

I don't necessarily agree with everything the Salon article has to say, but it and other critics articulate just why the show and its popularity are so offensive to a lot of people.

by Anonymousreply 166May 19, 2015 12:53 AM

[quote]So clearly you're one of those people who hates a show so much they watch it constantly.

Nope. I watched it once. But when it was a new show it was so popular that it became difficult to avoid it without essentially boycotting all mainstream media.

by Anonymousreply 167May 19, 2015 12:54 AM

Friends don't let friends lose their shit about Friends.

by Anonymousreply 168May 19, 2015 12:54 AM

[quote]Friends don't insult people just because they think [italic]Friends[/italic] is a terrible show.

Fixed.

by Anonymousreply 169May 19, 2015 12:57 AM

If everyone who watched [italic]Friends[/italic] had watched [italic]All-American Girl[/italic] instead, I wouldn't have an eating disorder.

by Anonymousreply 170May 19, 2015 12:59 AM

Now, Margaret, being lesbian is not an eating disorder.

by Anonymousreply 171May 19, 2015 1:16 AM

It was a different world back then...1996 I miss those days.

by Anonymousreply 172May 19, 2015 1:24 AM

It was a crummy show, but then there's always an audience for things that are crummy.

by Anonymousreply 173May 19, 2015 1:40 AM

I remember Becker doing a 9/11 show -- were they the only one?

by Anonymousreply 174May 19, 2015 1:41 AM

Friends SUCKS. If given a choice I'd rather watch How I met your mother every hour for a week than one episode of Friends. The Ross character is the worse and the women? Alll they were was thin.

by Anonymousreply 175May 19, 2015 1:54 AM

Yet Friends is still better than Cheers and most other NBC sitcoms.

I think Living Single came on AFTER Friends.

Here are some GREAT sitcoms starring people of color: EVERYBODY HATES CHRIS (one of the best if not the best); THE PJS; MARTIN, JEFFERSONS, GOOD TIMES, WHOOPI (short lived, cancelled after Whoopi made a comment about Bush--it was very funny); IN LIVING COLOR (not a sitcom but still); 227; THE PARKERS; Nell Carter's sitcom where she was married to the guy on Magnum etc. etc. etc. Many good sitcoms with people of color.

EVERYBODY HATES CHRIS was cancelled three years before it should have been. So well done.

And Nelsen Ellis and Rutina Wesley made True Blood great.

by Anonymousreply 176May 19, 2015 2:08 AM

In 10 seasons, across over 20 episodes, and set in NYC no less these 6 people came across ZERO gay people (except for Chandler's tranny dad who lived in Vegas) and only discovered black people could talk after the show's producers were criticised for never having a black person on the show. What's even weirder is that one of the creators of this show was a gay man.

by Anonymousreply 177May 19, 2015 2:11 AM

Sorry, that should be "200 episodes".

by Anonymousreply 178May 19, 2015 2:13 AM

THANK YOU @R177. No gays few Puerto Ricans?! What the hell sort of NYC were they hyping?! Plus NYC chicks wear black all the time.

by Anonymousreply 179May 19, 2015 2:15 AM

R170 There is nothing scarier than someone like you, fifty+ posts already? I bet you're close to being a serial killer.

by Anonymousreply 180May 19, 2015 2:17 AM

The writers of the show have the only New York sensibility seen in the whole morass -- the self-segregation. There are no black or brown or poor people in the show because they do not exist in the writers' universes.

Woody Allen's New York contains no black or brown people either, and the first time we saw the NYC we later came to hate in 90s sitcoms, it was in Peter Peter Bogdanovich's "They All Laughed."

by Anonymousreply 181May 19, 2015 2:37 AM

[quote] i. . . the show really got the idea that your friends are your family, which really resonated with Gen Xers, the first generation to really deal with family problems. So many of us were on our own, living away from our family, and our friends became our de facto family. It

The first generation to really deal with family problems?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! Stop me before my sides split.

Are you THIS narcissistic and stupid to really believe this?

And the rest of your post? Even funnier.

Face it, Friends was a poorly written, poorly acted, superficial look at shallow whiners. Well of course it resonated with you.

by Anonymousreply 182May 19, 2015 2:48 AM

I would add "Seinfeld" to this.

by Anonymousreply 183May 19, 2015 2:51 AM

This show is totally unrealistic. In my apartment complex in the city neighbors don't even make eye contact with each other. I don't even know what my next door neighbor looks like. I wouldn't even want to get to know my neighbors anyway.

This show is a fantasy for young naive adults in flyover USA. NYC sitcoms are unrealistic that they always have a group of quirky characters hanging out together that in real life wouldn't have anything to with each other.

No one is going to move to a city apartment complex and just be dropping in on people like on Friends and Seinfeld. Oh a nerdy guy, a womanizer guy, a smug asshole, a weird hippie chick, a former fat chick, an annoying chick all mysteriously become friends and hang out together like a big happy family. Totally unrealistic.

by Anonymousreply 184May 19, 2015 2:58 AM

[quote]Slate writer rewatches "Friends" and realizes 20 years too late that it sucks

It sucked back then too. How is it only now that everyone is just beginning to realise this fact?

by Anonymousreply 185May 19, 2015 3:04 AM

R185 I agree, it sucked back then. It was shallow and catered to the lowest common denominator. I was in college in the 90s and hated it. Nobody I knew watched that crap. It was one of those shitty but inexplicably popular shows you would catch by accident, like Two and a Half Dads today.

by Anonymousreply 186May 19, 2015 3:13 AM

It's like the morning after Titanic swept the Oscars and everyone woke up saying, "WTF?"

With Friends, it just took a bit longer for many.

by Anonymousreply 187May 19, 2015 3:18 AM

Straight women liked the show because it represents what a lot of straight women aspire to achieve.

Move to the city away from their family and their shitty rural or suburban town. Be thin and fashionable and sophisticated, make friends with other straight, thin and fashionable women. Have a few gay guy friends and soft wimpy friend zoned straight guy friends. Go shopping, hang out in coffee shops, sleep with a few hot boyfriends...etc. End up marring a rich husband.

It doesn't matter how shitty the show is. Just have a show with upwardly mobile young women moving to the city escaping their families and shitty towns, have them be thin, fashionable and attractive. Have a few gay guys or wimpy straight guys to be friends with. Show the women dating, shopping and going to coffee shops and the young straight flyover women will be glued to their TV screen watching the shit.

by Anonymousreply 188May 19, 2015 3:26 AM

I agree with R11. I never found it horrible. But, why it became so huge is sort of a mystery to me.

by Anonymousreply 189May 19, 2015 3:38 AM

R177 - Ross had an ex wife who was a lesbian.

by Anonymousreply 190May 19, 2015 3:42 AM

I prefer the first couple of seasons of "Wings" to "Friends" any day.

by Anonymousreply 191May 19, 2015 3:49 AM

Lesbians aren't threatening to anyone, particularly lipstick ones. David Crane should be ashamed of himself for refusing to allow one gay male character in over 200 episodes of a series he created.

by Anonymousreply 192May 19, 2015 3:49 AM

The show did good by lesbians.

by Anonymousreply 193May 19, 2015 3:53 AM

I agree r15, it was poorly written. I didnt watch much TV back then but I did catch the occasional episode and I liked it. However I distinctly recall the my friend's older sister saying she thought it was crap. Her exact words were "it's so badly written it almost unwatchable". I thought she was nuts.

I was was home sick a couple of years ago and caught an episode, it was followed by an episode of The Nanny. The Nanny, while hardly Shakespeare, still managed to be BETTER written than friends. Friends is shockingly bad television. It's equivalent now is Modern Family.

by Anonymousreply 194May 19, 2015 4:01 AM

The Nanny was a truly funny show and had a big gay/camp sensibility. I'll still watch a rerun now and then. I can't watch five minute of any Friends episode.

by Anonymousreply 195May 19, 2015 4:27 AM

Friends was helped by an unbelievably talented cast that played their roles to perfection.

by Anonymousreply 196May 19, 2015 4:29 AM

r196 is supposed to be in "The Lies PR People Told."

by Anonymousreply 197May 19, 2015 4:34 AM

It was better than JOEY.

by Anonymousreply 198May 19, 2015 4:41 AM

I wanted Joey to work, but as several critics said, the character got gelded.

by Anonymousreply 199May 19, 2015 4:56 AM

Wasn't Rachel J-wish too? There was a episode on her before she got her nose fixed, but since Marlo Thomas was her Mom, she could be part Lebanese.

by Anonymousreply 200May 19, 2015 3:32 PM

"Friends" was always crap. It was the show that my Mom said I was way, too young to watch as a kid and thank God she had sense or imagine how damaged I would've turned out to be? I might have been wearing white person dreadlocks, living in a house of purple faux marbling and taking part in an "Occupy" drum circle.

There were so, many wonderful things about the 90's but "Friends" was like all the worst, myopic, narcissistic arrogance and shallowness of the 90's, rolled-up into one show.There is not one likable character on it, although Phoebe comes the closest to being.

by Anonymousreply 201May 19, 2015 3:43 PM

[quote] Gen Xers, the first generation to really deal with family problems. So many of us were on our own, living away from our family,

O

M

F

G

We have a winner of the special snowflake award.

by Anonymousreply 202May 19, 2015 3:43 PM

"I'LL BE THERE FOR YOU!!

I'LL BE THERE FOR YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

by Anonymousreply 203May 19, 2015 3:43 PM

R201 Interestingly, I love Abfab because it embraces the glorious obnoxiousness and dysfunction of its characters, with none of the humble-bragging of "Friends".

by Anonymousreply 204May 19, 2015 3:45 PM

R13 Joan Rivers' couldn't have even afforded that apartment back then and she didn't even need her fifth face-lift, yet.

If all of them put their money together, they might have come up with this (with previous residents, included):

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by Anonymousreply 205May 19, 2015 3:52 PM

I know Lucy's apartment was really in the middle of a river, but was her apartment realistic?

I know the Honeymooners place seemed more...gritty.

by Anonymousreply 206May 19, 2015 4:09 PM

R206 Absolutely. Didn't you watch the "I Love Lucy Superstar Special" on CBS? It was a parlor/entry/living room/dining room and a couple of rooms off the center and sparsely decorated. "Friends" had a glass ceiling loft.

by Anonymousreply 207May 19, 2015 4:16 PM

R206 This vs...

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by Anonymousreply 208May 19, 2015 4:17 PM

R206 vs this:

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by Anonymousreply 209May 19, 2015 4:19 PM

So Lucy had a nice one bedroom apartment (Ricky was fairly well off I would guess) while Monica had an open plan / skylighted 2 bedroom (and none of them were well off at all, except for Chandler, who was also supporting Joey.)

Are there such apartments in that part of NYC? Were only people like JFK Jr able to afford them?

by Anonymousreply 210May 19, 2015 4:24 PM

I found a site that talks of Lucy's apartment and how they paid $125/month for it.

According to the CPI, it would cost ~$1600+ today

by Anonymousreply 211May 19, 2015 4:29 PM

R210 Only if they're fake-poor, like Will Buffet's granddaughter.

by Anonymousreply 212May 19, 2015 4:31 PM

r211, that apartment would rent for hell of a lot more than $1600/month today.

by Anonymousreply 213May 19, 2015 6:16 PM

I think in Friends, Monica inherited that apartment from her grandmother so it's believable. I used to work for a guy who had an apartment sort of like that but on the Upper East Side. He even had a terrace like they had. So the Friends apartment never struck me as being out of place.

by Anonymousreply 214May 19, 2015 6:35 PM

R214 With those waiting lists? Even that part of the story is unbelievable.

by Anonymousreply 215May 19, 2015 6:42 PM

Who the fuck argues about the realism of bad sets (passing as "apartments") that appeared in a lame sitcom that has been off the air for more than a decade?

by Anonymousreply 216May 19, 2015 6:46 PM

Did we ever find out what Chandler Bing did for a living?

by Anonymousreply 217May 19, 2015 8:15 PM

R216 Apparently, you don't know where you are. Sit down, I'll get you some milk and cookies and we can talk it out.

by Anonymousreply 218May 19, 2015 8:27 PM

"Friends" played second fiddle to "Seinfeld" until it went off the air.

by Anonymousreply 219May 19, 2015 8:32 PM

I watched it from Season 4 'til the end and I lived in NYC. I didn't confuse it with my life or the life I wanted any more than I had any real personal connection to "Seinfeld." But some moments were very funny and that was enough for me as it ran in the background while I graded papers.

by Anonymousreply 220May 19, 2015 8:50 PM

I'm firmly gen X and I find R133/R144 both silly and sad. The first generation to deal with "family problems?" What the fuck does that even mean?

This person is too old for such naïveté so I can only guess that this is an agressive form of early-onset dementia.

by Anonymousreply 221May 19, 2015 9:03 PM

I always loved the show. Watched it from the start when I was starting my career. I'm the same age as Monica and Rachel ;). I still catch it on syndication and it still makes me laugh.

by Anonymousreply 222May 21, 2015 12:04 PM

Monica had a rent controlled apartment thanks to her grandmother. That explains her low rent but how did Joey and Chandler afford the one across the hall?

by Anonymousreply 223May 21, 2015 12:12 PM

Was Monica's grandmother a Standard Oil heiress? That's the only way she could've had an apartment that huge.

by Anonymousreply 224May 21, 2015 12:30 PM

"Friends" and its obsession with homophobia.

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by Anonymousreply 225May 21, 2015 1:28 PM

'Friends' was bland and boring but I think it was designed for frauen, so perhaps that's why it ended up being successful.

The only people I've ever met who liked it are unfashionable straight women.

by Anonymousreply 226May 21, 2015 2:15 PM

True, r226. 'Friends' was a show that was tailor-made for straight fraus. Nobody else was really that into it.

by Anonymousreply 227May 21, 2015 2:24 PM

For straight gals, it was "Mad About You" and "Friends." "Seinfeld was too aggressive and they took the death of the fat guy's girlfriend very personally.

by Anonymousreply 228May 22, 2015 12:01 AM
by Anonymousreply 229May 22, 2015 4:31 AM

There was a gay character in Friends, in a 'blink and you miss him' sort of way. It was a work colleague of Chandler, when they did the then obligatory 'central character is mistakenly thought to be gay and hilarity ensues' storyline. There were episodes of Seinfeld and Caroline In The City that did the same thing, along with 2 episodes of Frasier (though one was the all-time-great ski chalet episode, so gets let off). At least Will and Grace killed that off.

by Anonymousreply 230May 22, 2015 12:45 PM

R230 and yet DLers everywhere find time to slam Will & Grace any chance they get.

by Anonymousreply 231May 22, 2015 1:27 PM

Chandler Bing Is the Worst Thing About Watching Friends in 2015

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by Anonymousreply 232April 30, 2018 7:15 AM

Homophobic Friends

A veracious montage of the sitcom Friends sheds new light on homophobic attitudes in contemporary TV culture.

The remixed supercut was created by Tijana Mamula who edited together 45 minutes of homophobic and hetronormative jokes from the 1990s sitcom Friends. The video was deleted by Vimeo in September 2011 despite its clear fair use status.

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by Anonymousreply 233April 30, 2018 7:16 AM

The 50 Most Racist TV Shows of All Time

Little known line from the first draft of the Friends theme song: "Your job's a joke, you're broke, but you're white so it's okaaaaay!" Hmmmm... Six friends living in NYC, and not one of them is black? Sure, it's possible, but they could've easily thrown a black person in the mix and kept it from being all-white-everything. Holly Robinson Peete felt so strongly about the lack of color that she called for a boycott of the show at one point in 2003.

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by Anonymousreply 234April 30, 2018 7:18 AM

Friends is really unfunny

by Anonymousreply 235April 30, 2018 7:19 AM

I was also 11 and knew the show sucked. I tried re watching it and it was even worse than I remembered.

by Anonymousreply 236April 30, 2018 7:26 AM

When it came out, I didn't like the first season, and couldn't understand the appeal - it seemed really schmaltzy. Then by the second season it picked up and there were moments of cleverness that got you through each episode.

I never understood Everybody Hate's Raymond - the wife, if Raymond is such a dickhead, why did you marry him you whiny harpie?

by Anonymousreply 237April 30, 2018 8:10 AM

IT was AWESOME! Especially since I was making $500,000 per weekly episode in the last years of its success.

by Anonymousreply 238April 30, 2018 8:17 AM

The way you can tell if something is good comedy is it holds up years after its run its course like I love Lucy rand for over 50 years! Friends, a few years later, not so much.

by Anonymousreply 239April 30, 2018 8:19 AM

We can all agree Phoebe was essentially a cunt, like the self-serving Mr Bean.

by Anonymousreply 240April 30, 2018 8:26 AM

R238, they made $1M per episode in the end. And apparently were still each making $20M a year at least in 2015...

[italic]During a break from Oscars week mania in L.A., I took the Warner Bros. VIP studio tour, where I learned from my guide Noah that the Friends cast is still rolling in MAJOR dough more than a decade after the show ended.

How major?

Well, through the magic of syndication revenue, Friends pulls in a whopping $1 billion each year for Warner Bros. Here's the kicker though: That translates into about a $20 million annual paycheck each for Jennifer Aniston, Courteney Cox, Lisa Kudrow, Matt LeBlanc, Matthew Perry and David Schwimmer, who each make 2% of that syndication income.

$20 million. Each year. For doing nothing.

Just let that sink in.[/italic]

by Anonymousreply 241April 30, 2018 8:34 AM

[Quote] I never understood Everybody Hate's Raymond - the wife, if Raymond is such a dickhead, why did you marry him you whiny harpie?

It's not saying much but Raymond was slightly more tolerable than Marie and Frank.

by Anonymousreply 242April 30, 2018 2:53 PM

????

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by Anonymousreply 243April 30, 2018 7:11 PM

21 Times "Friends" Was Actually Really Problematic

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by Anonymousreply 244April 30, 2018 7:11 PM

FRIENDLY FIRE The one with the fat-shaming and homophobia… people are pointing out the things in Friends they wouldn’t get away with today

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by Anonymousreply 245April 30, 2018 7:13 PM

I was never into this show and agree that it is overrated crap, but Jesus Christ to be this invested in hating a sitcom that has been off the air for more than a decade? And not just that, but holding it up under close scrutiny based on 2018 social justice norms that didn't even exist in 1994? That is just bonkers.

Also, and feel free to tell me if I am wrong because I am certainly not going to rewatch clips of the show myself, but I am wiling to bet the alleged "homophobic" stuff is really just trannies all in a tizzy over Chandler's dad being a drag queen. I often see things today labeled "anti-LGBT" and it will invariably have nothing to do with gays at all (like an autogynephile whining because he can't swing his penis arpund some lady's locker room). So are there actual instances of them being hateful towards gays, or is it just the drag queen thing and the occasional straight man "gay panic" humor?

I have occasionalky caught this show in syndication over the years, and have no memory of anything homophobic. Ross's ex was lesbian and they featured her and her wife pretty regularly at least in the beginning. And yes--I am aware--lesbians are more palatable to the mainstream and thus more of a copout when it comes to having gay characters, but acceptance had to start somewhere. Star Trek DS9's first gay kiss was two women. The one on Roseanne, same deal. Buffy had a lesbian couple as major characters and almost no gay males whatsoever (and no, the mincing and NOT out Tom Lenk doesn't count, as they even showed him lusting over women in a later episode of Angel). And finally, we had to have Ellen before there could be a Will and Grace or Modern Family. It is just the way things were, and lesbians had to pave the way first.

To hold a 90s sitcom to standards and cultural norms we have in 2018 is just ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 246April 30, 2018 8:19 PM

Hopefully, it doesn't take as long for the writer to realize that Slate is awful, too.

by Anonymousreply 247April 30, 2018 8:22 PM

It's on NETFLIX and, yeah, it's annoying to see shit like Joey getting Ross to talk dirty to him in preparation of doing it to a girl and then, whoa ho ho, Matthew Perry comes in and listens and they are embarrassed. So fucking stupid -- and Perry was the worst mugger on the planet.

Thank God "Modern Family" and ""The Middle" rewrote the sitcom rule and saved the genre. The live audience setup setup joke model was the lowest form of entertainment.

by Anonymousreply 248April 30, 2018 8:26 PM

Friends showed being gay as threatening and I'm not buying the excuses

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by Anonymousreply 249April 30, 2018 8:26 PM

51-minute montage of homophobic and heteronormative jokes in Friends

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by Anonymousreply 250April 30, 2018 8:30 PM

This always seemed like a "Gen X" show that was designed to appeal to older Boomers. I could never get into it. However, have we not reached some sort of tipping point for articles about how some old thing produced before our current Age of Enlightenment is "problematic"? This shit must be so easy to write and there's no end of examples.

by Anonymousreply 251April 30, 2018 8:30 PM

LOL, R248. Modern Family didnt "rewrite the rules" on anything. They just copied the same faux-documentary format started by the original British version of The Office back in 2001. That format (US Office, Parks and Rec) was already tired before Modern Family even hit the airwaves.

And mincing stereotypes like the gay couple on that show aren't doing gays any favors.

by Anonymousreply 252April 30, 2018 8:34 PM

As a New Yorker, I quit watching halfway into the first season. You can have the main lead characters on a show that takes place in NYC be white but to have everyone else (even the background extras) walking back and forth be white? On what planet?

by Anonymousreply 253April 30, 2018 8:42 PM

I predict in 20-30 years, people will find the mincing gay stereotypes of Will and Grace and Modern Family every bit as offensive as this Friends hoopla, and cringe at it the same way I do when watching Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's.

by Anonymousreply 254April 30, 2018 8:43 PM

^^^ It will not take that long.

by Anonymousreply 255April 30, 2018 8:45 PM

This is portrayal a gay character in Turkish TV Show

TV Show = Kiralık Aşk / Actor = Onur Büyüktopçu / Character's name = Koray Sargın

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by Anonymousreply 256April 30, 2018 8:54 PM

r254 No, we won't because people like that exist in real life and they're awesome. I'm sorry if you don't know any but that's no excuse to try and prevent them from being represented on TV.

That you would compare it to blackface tells me everything I need to know about you. Maybe you should start hanging out with alt-righters instead of being here on DL, seeing how you love false equivalencies and shaming our own people.

by Anonymousreply 257April 30, 2018 8:55 PM

I can only dream the retarded masses turn their critical eye away from the long dead Friends to the complete piece of shit that is Big Bang Theory. That show is unwatchable trash and makes me embarrassed to be human.

by Anonymousreply 258April 30, 2018 8:57 PM

R256,

Work a bit more ln ypur articles and prepositions, and then try again.

by Anonymousreply 259April 30, 2018 9:09 PM

R256,

Work a bit more on your articles and prepositions, then try again.

by Anonymousreply 260April 30, 2018 9:12 PM

I love Friends. I love Will & Grace. I love Modern Family. I think they are all first and foremost well-written and well-acted tv shows and the casting for each show is perfection. They all have great cast chemistry and I feel they've easily stood the test of time.

by Anonymousreply 261April 30, 2018 9:21 PM

It was a mostly bland show with some occasional jokes that landed well. I have probably only seen a couple dozen episodes, and I remember thinking of it as mediocre fodder and nothing more. I was more outraged by the salaries that the actors commanded than any content.

Weren’t most of the gay/trans jokes about panic and discomfort rather than belittlement and degradation? (The latter two aspects were what I remember as being more characteristic of the incessant fag jokes and accusations that I grew up around.)

Were the characters in question portrayed as disgusting or perverse?

by Anonymousreply 262April 30, 2018 9:49 PM

So callout culture is saying the show is "problematic?" I just say that it sucks ass, and not in a good way.

by Anonymousreply 263April 30, 2018 10:00 PM
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by Anonymousreply 264April 30, 2018 10:18 PM

Problematic. Such a passive aggressive term.

by Anonymousreply 265May 1, 2018 11:48 AM

I am an older millennia and I enjoy seinfeld and friends. Those sjws can kiss my ass. Republicans are right liberals are a bunch of snowflakes who have no sense of humor at all. Every form of art or tv show from the past is now problematic. Like that saying, " entertainment sees to no longer be funny when it becomes censored". I don't even enjoy the new crop of comedy shows because it is designed to appeal to the overtly pc audience whom might be triggered by off colored jokes.

by Anonymousreply 266May 1, 2018 2:23 PM

[quote]Republicans are right liberals are a bunch of snowflakes

No they are not. Only an annoying fringe of poseurs are in it just to show how woke they are and call out everyone not as smugly proper as themselves. Most of us just want fairness and opportunity for the people who make up the base of the pyramid.

That's like saying all Republicans are neo-nazis or klansmen. Well actually ... that's not such a good analogy, because that's actually true ....

by Anonymousreply 267May 1, 2018 2:34 PM

Friends is probably a comfort show for a lot of straight women the way The Golden Girls is for us.

by Anonymousreply 268May 1, 2018 3:54 PM

[Quote] And not just that, but holding it up under close scrutiny based on 2018 social justice norms that didn't even exist in 1994? That is just bonkers.

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by Anonymousreply 269May 1, 2018 3:56 PM

Eh, oes a show always have to be politically correct to be enjoyed? I initially hate it and thought it's just a rip-off t of Seinfeld . But later became a fan , loving the continuing story lines. Phoebe (and her twin ) is my fave.

by Anonymousreply 270May 1, 2018 4:51 PM

Friends is unfunny show with shitty actors but I love Coupling

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by Anonymousreply 271May 1, 2018 6:55 PM

[quote]but I love Coupling

We're sure you do, love, we're sure you do.

by Anonymousreply 272May 1, 2018 7:41 PM

Friends Was Homophobic AF

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by Anonymousreply 273May 1, 2018 8:10 PM

Season 10: The repulsive thought of two men kissing

The backstory: Joey attempts to kiss Rachel but pictures Ross while he does it. Repulsed, he pushes Rachel away. Simple homophobia is at play here. Joey can’t stomach the idea of two men kissing, so he quite literally rejects Rachel when he thinks she is Ross.

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by Anonymousreply 274May 1, 2018 8:12 PM

It was the worst show in history that is remembered as the best.

by Anonymousreply 275July 5, 2018 12:11 AM

I never watched any of that "Must See Thursday Night" lineup. I didn't have anything against it, it didn't interest me. Later I started watching a lot of "Fraiser" which I think was part of that "Friends" Thursday thing. I loved "Frasier" for obvious reasons and I still catch it once and a while.

by Anonymousreply 276July 5, 2018 12:19 AM

I was 20 years-old when it debuted. I watched the pilot while visiting my mom on vacation. We both laughed at it and said it would be canceled.

It wasn't funny and didn't ring true.

by Anonymousreply 277July 5, 2018 1:55 AM
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