"The Flash" Continues...

Someday I will be Mrs. Grant Gustin.

i always forget the he's 6'2' cuz he's so i don't wanna say skinny, but yeah, skinny.

He is a cutie.

Just bumping to put it in my thread watcher.

Barry is so annoying that I root for the villains.

What fascinating allegory: all these superpowered queens threatening the city, and the city's saviour is literally a man who runs away all the time. The villains represent his sexuality -- flaming flaming flaming -- which he is always running from. He doesn't need a broom closet. He's the Flash: able to hide in plain site at will.

The ultimate closet case fantasy.

That's a stretch, r5.

Tom Cavanagh is an awesome villain. We've been told so little about him so far but somehow he milks it for all it's worth without being too hammy.

[quote]Barry is so annoying that I root for the villains.

I don't necessarily find Barry annoying, but I do think he is a bit of a weak link. He seems more like a supporting player in a high school drama than the lead hero. It seems like he is either having a look of angst or is giving a big grin to show how puppy dog cute he is.

I agree somewhat, R8. I think Grant Gustin is really cute and charming and he rides those coattails in lieu of having a lot of talent or nuance to his acting. His stilted line deliveries are really cringe-worthy sometimes. He does manage to have a lot of chemistry with most people he shares the screen with. Big dumb puppy kind of works in this role, but he and Danielle Panabaker are the weak links of the show acting wise IMO.

R8, I thought that was just me.

I watched the original Flash series when I was a kid and JWS' Flash/Barry was a man.

Gustin strikes me as a kid, not just because I'm now, obviously, so much older, but because he's playing it so freaking young.

I prefer Shipp's 'man' Flash to Gustin's 'kid' Flash.

I like the Flash as a cute young twink.

I love everything about "The Flash"... except Iris.

Iris is just [italic]terrible[/italic].

R9 it's just a tv series, not Chekhov's The Seagull. People (and here I include myself) just needs an engaging plot and good eye candy.

R13, oh dear.

Hon, referencing Checkov to show us how unpretentious you are? No...not working.

Grodd!

Tonight.

Hahahahahahahaha!@R14

Hopefully Grodd kills Iris!!!!

No chance R17

God I hate Iris so much. What a fucking cunt.

God, I fucking hate Iris.

My enjoyment of this show is going to drop in direct correlation to the increase of Iris involvement.

GODDAMN, IRIS!! STOP BEING SUCH A FUCKING CUNT!!!

AUGH!!!

R14 not only has never read or seen THE SEAGULL, but thinks it's high art rather than a rippingly clever melodrama.

Go make like Konstantin and bang yourself, poseur.

R19, R20, R21

I sense it's just jealousy. You want to jump into bed with The Flash and Iris is cock blocking you. But consider the following....it's a fictional character.

No, R23. She's just a horrible person, written horrible, acted horribly, uttering some of the shittiest lines, so annoying, so manipulative, so completely cunty.

R22 darling, if you have to compare it to the tv series The Flash with gorgeous Gustin Grant in tights then The Seagull IS high art.

You see, it's all about binary opposition

R24 she is there for a st8 audience, don't you get it? She just needs to be seen for the guys watching to want her and the girls watching to identify with her. See... not intended for a gay audience.

when's grant gonna come out?

I'm a dyke and don't have a dog in this fight but... How exactly is Iris a cunt for not wanting everyone in her life to lie to her day in and day out and telling people to stop bullshitting her? Like I think she's kind of useless too but I can't see anything unreasonable about anything she said.

I think eddie is going to die

R29, if Eddie dies, how can he be the ancestor of the Reverse Flash? He's got to spread his seed.

Iris really was extra cunty last night, trying to make it all about her, being so self-absorbed and obnoxious that I wanted to punch her.

How is everyone she's close to lying to her and manipulating her NOT about her?

Rick Cosnett, the actor who plays Eddie, has gay voice and has flamed out in a couple scenes. He pings off the charts.

The inherent gay culture of the show is constantly betrayed by the writing of Iris. The writers have absolutely no clue who or what iris is. She is a plot tool.

I actually like this take on Iris. It is very post Lois and Clark. Refusing to be damsel in distress. She was smart enough to figure out who the Flash is on her own and is an aid and not a sidekick. The blind casting of her is a plus too.

R30 Eddie is a distant relation, not a direct ancestor. Plus, we really don't know how time works in The Flash universe. Really everything Wells/Eobard has done should have massive disrupted his own timeline. The world he wants to go back too shouldn't logically exist as he remembers it.

Yesterday's episode was the most boring yet.

R36, we get hints by him somehow monitoring the future via his time room and that headline...

R35 Iris discovered Barry's secret in the comics over 50 years ago. Iris was always more than a Girl Hostage. Nothing post "Lois & Clark" there.

TV Iris is just a charisma-free zero.

Iris is just [italic]terrible[/italic].

She's such a selfish cunt. Even when others are in danger, she makes it all about her. She holds her relationship hostage until she gets here way, demanding to know what is in reality none of her goddamned business.

I fucking hate Iris. She almost ruins the show.

Iris was horrible in this episode.

I really hate her.

"Iris is terrible?" "Iris is a cunt?"

This is the first time they've given her anything to actually do.

Absolutely nothing she did was any different than any person would react to anything that happened.

Can you guys just admit you hate her because she's black? I mean it "is" Datalounge. The fuck!?!?!!?

I don't hate her because she's black.

I find her character annoying and badly written. Seriously, the actress is doing her best with an awful part, but it's still an awful part. Iris comes of as dumb, self-centered and childish. Somewhere in the writing, direction, or production someone is making consistently bad choices with the character.

Iris reminds me of Laurie on The Walking Dead, lots of people hated her, and it wasn't because she was white, it was because the writers were using her as a plot device instead of writing her as a real person, just like Iris.

Also, I find the Iris/Barry relationship incestuous. They were raised as brother and sister for years, and now they want to bang? Ick.

R43 is right on the Barry-Iris incest part. They were raised as brother and sister, then the romantic sparks start flying. The latest episode was the first one that annoyed me. About 30 minutes of the 42 minutes was spent with Iris lashing out. I was in it for The Flash in tights, chasing villains, flirting with hot cop Eddie, not getting bitched at from head to toe. I'd watch Lifetime if I wanted that.

I think some of the Iris hate is due to memories of Lana. Similar situation where often there seemed to be more focus on the romance problems than the villain etc. On Smallville, it seemed like they would resolve the action part of the story at about the 45 minute mark so they could have Clark and Lana (and later Lois) have the same ten minute conversation of angst to end every episode. Instead of each episode ending on a bang, they would end on a long whine.

No wonder Welling seemed bored the last five years or so of the show. By the time the show ended, he was a 35 year old man playing a 25 year old who acted like was 15.

I guess no surprise since they are both the CW, but I see some similarities between the two shows.

Hate having a stupid giant gorilla suddenly become a plot point. I realize we've had glimpses of it before, but with so much else going on, it seems ridiculous to have Wells unleash him to "distract" the Flash.

And I agree that Wells/Thawne doesn't seem to have thought out too much that everything he's done has changed his future time forever.

DC Comics always had a thing for giant gorillas. Grodd is only the most famous (and durable) one.

[quote]I think some of the Iris hate is due to memories of Lana.

Nope. No idea who "Lana" is. Never watched "Smallville" really.

Iris is just a horrible character, written horrible, acted horribly, as just a really, truly horrible person. She's a stupid manipulative cunty bitch from hell. Why anyone would be attracted to this skinny ass "dress-like-a-street-whore to a job interview" dipshit is beyond me.

She has zero chemistry with anyone, none of her relationships are believable, her line deliveries are awkward and wooden, ... I don't even understand why I have to go on explaining just how [italic]terrible[/italic] Iris is, at every level, from every angle.

No, R42, it has nothing to do with the fact that she's black. Couldn't care less about that. LOVE her dad (and he's a decent actor too!). LOVE the relationship between Barry and her dad.

The problem with Iris isn't her skin at all. It's EVERYTHING ELSE.

R42 I don't think it's because she's black. I think it's because she's a woman. Specifically, a woman standing up for herself against the men in her life manipulating the shit out of her at every opportunity. How dare she. The misogynist rage is blatant all over this thread.

Caitlin is a whiny lying asshole and poor basic Danielle Panabaker has exactly 2 expressions, yet no one is calling her horrible names. It's telling.

R42 and R50 = biggest assholes on Datalounge. Seriously, you're idiotic assholes.

No, R50, it has nothing to do with her gonads either. Sheesh.

Are all of you post here 14 year olds? I'm serious.

"And I agree that Wells/Thawne doesn't seem to have thought out too much that everything he's done has changed his future time forever."

No, he is fulfilling what to him is history.

The Iris character is poorly written and poorly played, at least to date. I've seen some ability in the actress, but Iris us just an unappealing, inexplicable character - a mistake.

[quote]Hate having a stupid giant gorilla suddenly become a plot point.

Then are you ever watching the wrong show, toots. Gorilla Grodd is a pretty indispensable part of the Flash mythos--it would be like having Superman without Luthor.

R55, unfortunately, Iris is as critical to the Flash mythos as Grodd... Barry and Iris are fated to marry, in fact.

Which makes this horrible result all the less excusable.

And less fixable.

Well, now that Iris knows the truth about Barry, maybe she'll become more like the Iris West in the comic.

The Iris West in the comic was probably the coolest of the Silver Age superhero girlfriends. She was a dedicated career woman who wasn't insecure about her status or her job (unlike Carol Ferris, who was dominated by her father), and she wasn't neurotically obsessed with some impossible to reach superhero (like Lois Lane, who wanted to marry Superman). And she was actually good at her job and didn't need secret help from a superhero (unlike Jean Loring). She wasn't even interested in The Flash romantically--she was perfectly happy with her fiance Barry Allen, except she thought he was too pokey and always late.

She was that rare thing: a comic book superhero girlfriend who was competent at her job, smart, brave, and non-neurotic. But they've ruined the character this year with the dumb triangle of Eddie/Iris/Barry.

[quote]And I agree that Wells/Thawne doesn't seem to have thought out too much that everything he's done has changed his future time forever.

He is using Gideon to track possible changes to the future via newspaper headlines in 2024. Remember that one time it changed?

I think the Iris hate is mostly because she has been poorly written so far. She is just kind of tacked on and her story doesn't really blend in well with the rest of it. Let's hope they can fix that.

Caitlin isn't a very well developed character, really, but she has plenty of useful things to do. That makes her less annoying. Also, I'm interested to see if she ever turns into Killer Frost, or Cisco into Vibe.

[quote]She was that rare thing: a comic book superhero girlfriend who was competent at her job, smart, brave, and non-neurotic.

Agreed!

You know if she was invited to the Hall of Justice that she'd walk in, side eye everything and then announce, "So this is the JLA, huh? I expected about as much."

Whereas the other girlfriends/wives (Lois, Jean, Carol, etc...) would be pissing themselves.

The only other exceptions I can possibly think of would be Sue Dibney and Mera.

R58 you can thank the book Seduction of The Innocent for what happened to Lois and many other female characters because comic companies got scared of having the stigma that their female characters would be thought of as lesbians.The book essentially said strong female characters(Wonder Woman,etc) in comics would corrupt a girl's virtue and turn her into a lesbian the same way Batman and Robin would turn a boy gay by being "seduced" by the "homosexual lifestyle".

[quote][R42] and [R50] = biggest assholes on Datalounge. Seriously, you're idiotic assholes.

WHY? Because the truth is being told? Nobody can have a difference of opinion of their own, because you don't agree?

R62, it's cute you think you're speaking the truth, or that your opinion has any basis in reality at all. I mean, the moment someone disagrees with you, you leap right into (non-existent) racism & misogyny. Please.

Wow, this thread has already been hijacked by the racists and misogynists.

Could we go back to talking about the series please and not your personal hang ups?

I don't think it's about Iris' race, it's more about the way her character is written.

I think the actress who plays her is gorgeous, but it's hard to tell whether she can act because the writers haven't really given her much to do.

The way I know it isn't about race is because everyone hates Laurel on Arrow way more and she is white. OTOH people seem to really like Felicity Smoak. It's more about the writing or the actress who plays her than racism. Not everything is about that. Geez.

If it were racism people would be complaining about Joe and John Diggle, too, and the interracial relationships.

R47 *ahem*

Sam Simeon, of "Angel & The Ape" fame

The Ultra-Humanite

Titano

I think the actress who plays Iris is beautiful and doing a good job with the rather weak material she's been given...but I see zero chemistry between Iris and Barry. Iris has some chemistry with Eddie and Barry had NO chemistry with Linda Park so I think Grant Gustin just doesn't strike sparks with girls.

Eddie/Wells would be hot. Just saying. Also Wells/Joe.

I don't think it's race either. People hated Lana on Smallville, but loved Chloe.

Iris' issue is clearly the writing. I happen to like the character and I think the actress does a decent enough job with what she is given, but even Streep could make Iris anymore interesting. The writers have to fix the Iris problem, not the actress.

But, I believe this is the first real gig for this actress, so she isn't going to rock the boat and will just do what they give her.

[quote]so I think Grant Gustin just doesn't strike sparks with girls.

The only people Gustin has had chemistry with, character-wise, are Felicity, Joe, his father, and Eddie.

And as for Iris, it's not JUST the writing (though that's probably 80% of it)... it's the way they dress her (really? She dresses like a total street-whore to go to a job interview in mini-mini-skirt and thigh-high boots? Really?) and just the rich-skinny-bitch look that seems it would be more at home on the set of "Clueless" than The Flash.

Even her dad has had wincingly bad moments due to writing, but he's a good enough actor he can make most of it work.

I just wish they hadn't destroyed Iris like this... I don't really know how they bring her back. If the writing suddenly got better it would seem really weird to have her personality change too dramatically.

I hope they find a way to make me stop hating the character. I really do. Especially if that character is going to be a bigger part of the team.

I agree that Grant Gustin doesn't have much chemsitry with any of the females on "Flash".

I honestly don't understand this childish hatred of Iris. Whenever a character gets upset about being lied to so many idiots hate them.

Sorry, in real life if the people you were close were lying to you and keeping you in the dark while they led this secret life without you you would be fucking pissed.

The actress is pretty good (way better than the chick that plays Caitlin), they just clearly don't know what to do with the character.

[quote] it's the way they dress her (really? She dresses like a total street-whore to go to a job interview in mini-mini-skirt and thigh-high boots? Really?

The shameless hussy!!

[quote]I honestly don't understand this childish hatred of Iris. Whenever a character gets upset about being lied to so many idiots hate them.

You seriously haven't noticed that the completely justified hatred of this character LONG pre-dates her figuring out she was lied to? And really, honestly, has little or nothing to do with that?

Seriously?

I wish just once, someone, upon finding out their friend is a superhero, would be like: "Wow, you got powers and are trying to use them responsibly, incurring many enemies along the way and attempting to protect me from becoming collateral damage. That must have been really hard for you. Thanks!"

It seems like the writers just have the same 8 conflicts to go to and they all require one character or another to get a sudden case of being a cunt. At least it seems in character for Iris, who was also a flaming cunt at the dinner with Ray & Felicity.

But still. It would have been nice to be surprised by some reason that isn't TOTALLY FUCKING SELF-ABSORBED.

I have to say, there are enormous flaws with the way Iris has been written the first season, but it seems a lot of this fanboy hatred of her on DL stems even more from the fact that some of the posters here want the character of Barry Allen to be gay and have an affair with Cisco or Eddie Thawne.

No, R74. Recognizing the simple fact that Barry has more chemistry with Eddie than he does with Iris is NOT saying that we'd rather he be gay and fuck Eddie and that's why we hate Iris. Are you for real? What kind of childish bullshit is that? No. And you're seriously warped to even suggest such a thing.

But r73, everyone in her life knew and didn't tell her. That would piss me off too. It's one thing if one or two people knew, but everyone that she loves or is friends with knows the truth.

My only real problem with the show is that insist his team were hotter. Cisco is not attractive at all. The arrow is surrounded by Colton and Diggle and Brandon Routh. We get Cisco. And Caitlin is no fun and looks kind of soccer mom. How are we supposed to believe that she pulled one of the Amell boys?

Well, R76, Colton has left for good, and Brandon Routh/Ray is leaving for his own show, so...

Iris is written really badly. They made her a whiny and childish teen girl and she could be so much more. I've nothing against the actress.

I didn't really like the show in the beginning but the latest stuff has made it quite interesting. Grodd seemed so silly, though. Arrow has been really shitty in many ways this season and the whole Ra's al Ghul thing has been tedious as fuck. Last fall I couldn't imagine me enjoying Flash more than Arrow but that really did happen.

BTW, people talking about Laurel being super hated and Felicity being loved many times talk like it's universal. It's not. Especially with the dumb Ollie/Felicity love affair I've seen quite a lot of Felicity hate out there. We obviously have at least one Laurel hater here who just has to bring it up all the time in the Arrow threads. The hate towards her sounds a lot like how Iris is being treated in this thread. It's all very teen girl/mean girl stuff and I was sure it was women doing the hating but at least one hater came out as a guy here. Laurel has been one of the few rays of sunshine on Arrow this season. If the history repeats itself the hater starts now bitching about me being an idiot for liking her.

I think it's strange that we have seen many meta human villians but relatively few heroes

[quote]some of the posters here want the character of Barry Allen to be gay and have an affair with Cisco or Eddie Thawne

OR? You mean AND.

I think cisco is hot. Those lips

Well who didn't see THAT coming?

Barry/Flash, you idiot.

You KNOW he has a contingency plan.

Another great episode!

Loved the chemistry with Captain Cold and Barry. I honestly thought the transfer would go smoothly.

So Oliver is now back in the states? Loved how he helped.

I think captain cold needs to be retired as a character. I am annoyed at this point with the amount of eps this guy has gotten. I like the actor, but I think the producers are doing a terrible job because they like him too.

Well he's gonna continue to cheese it up, R85.

He's involved in the new show.

I know that suspension of disbelief is required in these shows, but one moment was overly silly.

Cisco was looking at this futuristic device, unable to make heads or tails of how it worked, but he was able to say that the team had 36 hours until all hell broke loose?

Eddie was looking particularly lovely when he was dazed and dehydrated, by the way. He needs to be locked up more often.

Anyone notice the Green Lantern shout-out?

When Barry arrives at Ferris Airlines, Cold says that he thought the airline had been shut down. Barry says it has because one of their test pilots went missing.

Which is the origin story of Green Lantern.

So Green Lantern apparently already exists in this universe. Probably off being trained with the corps right now. I wonder if we'll ever see him in any of these shows.

So... flash appears for like 5 seconds in tonight's Arrow... does exactly what anyone and everyone predicted... and then disappears.

Not much of a "cross-over event" really.

Some people think John Diggle's middle name is Stewart and he is or will become one of the Green Lanterns. The actor himself has been coy about it. I think Captain Cold is hilarious and I like his sister a lot, too.

[quote]Cisco was looking at this futuristic device, unable to make heads or tails of how it worked, but he was able to say that the team had 36 hours until all hell broke loose?

So many comments about this on Twitter/Tumblr today so you're not the only one who noticed! It was either bad editing or a situation where someone in the writers' room was plain old not paying attention.

The only thing that bothered me was the continuity was off. Oliver showed up in Central City as the Arrow or whatever to help Barry, before he killed Ras and while he was supposed to be on a plane headed to Starling.

I not sure he will show up r88 it may have been just a nod to the character like Arrow did with Nightwing and Wayne Enterprises (Batman) or like Gotham did with Queens Consolidated (Green Arrow) but I could be wrong.

There was too much crammed into this episode. That whole rogue battle was chaotic as hell, I had to watch it two times to figure out what was happening. And the whole Arrow/Firestorm appearance vs. Thawne felt rushed. Though it was a fun episode. But Cisco is eternally cute.

I'm a bit tired of the "we can't possibly let the bad guys die" routine even though the bad guys are going to kill countless people once they're freed, ala Smallville.

However, cop Eddie was looking hot. Flash missed out on a huge 2 weeks load by not finding him first.

So... one more episode. Looks like it'll be a doozy.

Is Wells/Thawne really dead? Seemed rather anticlimactic he'd just get shot in the back.

And not really sure what purpose Robbie Amell's fire character served. Didn't add much to the fight.

If Flash wanted to move the prisoners, why didn't Cisco invent some kind of personal restraint that zapped their powers, which doesn't make any less sense than having it in a big truck, and then moving them at super speed from the lab to the plane. It was never clear what would keep them docile once on the plane anyway.

I guess the Wentworth Miller character is considered a favorite by some because the actor is openly gay, but his only power comes from using a gun. It seems he could be disarmed and imprisoned very easily, records obliterated or not. Same with the sister with the golden gun. And its a golden gun, why not just turn everything to gold and get rich that way?

I want more of the incredibly handsome Liam McIntyre.

Except for the Big Three, I predict most or all of DC's super heroes will make an appearance in "The Flash" or "Arrow.'

"Except for the Big Three, I predict most or all of DC's super heroes will make an appearance in "The Flash" or "Arrow.'"

Am I included in the Big Three? I'm sporting 8 inches, you know.

Please Nightwing, we all know you are known for your ass, not your front.

Captain Cold was trending for hours on Tuesday night, R96. He's a fan favorite not just because he's openly gay, but because he's such a delightfully gleeful villain. His only power isn't his cold gun, but that he's very smart and very manipulative. Lex Luthor wasn't superpowered either, yet he kept kicking Superman's ass too.

Lisa's gun doesn't make gold; it makes a melted resin that looks like gold. Hence her line about melting people's faces off with it in this episode.

There's no way Wells is dead. Or maybe he is, and Eddie becomes the Reverse Flash. The spinoff show they're doing with Arthur Darvill is about time travel, so they could be doing that.

When will we see Aquaman?!?

wells is not dead. just knocked out. he's a big part of the last ep this year.

As soon as the upcoming movie with him flops like the fish he chitchats with, R101.

Wells appears to be in the spinoff for next year, too. You can see him in the trailer starting at about the 2:09 mark for a couple of seconds. Caity Lotz is such a hot bitch.

And with Wentworth and Victor Garber the spin-off will have two out actors in the cast. Maybe more I don't know the deal with all the other cast members...

[quote]Except for the Big Three, I predict most or all of DC's super heroes will make an appearance in "The Flash" or "Arrow"

Could you tell those of us who were actually getting laid in high school, who the big three are? TIA.

Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman

R105, with that attitude, you'll be lucky if anything tells you anything.

But surely you can guess at least two of the big three.

[quote]Wentworth and Victor Garber the spin-off will have two out actors in the cast. Maybe more I don't know the deal with all the other cast members

And at least one canonically LGBT character (Sarah Lance).

And one on "The Flash" (her lover), R108... along with openly gay actor who plays the new Ra's Al Gul.

You're right R109 and there's also openly LGBT Andy Mientus who played the gay character Pied Piper on "The Flash," plus Captain David Singh and his new husband. David and Hartley/the Pied Piper are a couple in the comics, but not yet on the show. But I just meant on the spinoff!

Is there a gay porn parody yet? Will Barry be a top or a bottom in it?

What would the porn parody be called? "The Flesh"? I'm thinking Barry is a top and Cisco is a squealy bottom. Helix will probably produce it.

R112, don't forget about me!

R105 Stealing Joey Tribbiani's lines from "Friends"? Well, we know what you were doing in high school.

The Big 3, the DC Trinity are Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman.

[quote]The Big 3, the DC Trinity are Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman.

Sigh.

Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman are tier 1

Flash, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman tier 2

Red Tornado, Huntress, Question, Hawkgirl tier 3

I agree with R116. Their villains correspond more or less the same way, too. E.g., Lex Luthor and the Joker are A-list villains. Maybe Cheetah, too, since she's the best known of all the WW villains. Where the Reverse Flash and Ra's Al Ghul are B- and C-list. I don't know about Hawkgirl being Tier 3, though; she's pretty well-known and a pretty consistent inclusion in the JLU.

I hope that Grant uses the hiatus to bulk up a bit. He's way too skinny to be a superhero.

the flash isn't suppose to be a bulky superhero b/c of his metabolism. he's suppose to be wiry, lean and athletic.

There is way to be lean and toned and well defined. Grant is just a skinny twig.

[quote]What would the porn parody be called? "The Flesh"?

Why not [italic]The Flasher[/italic]??

[quote]Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman are tier 1

Flash, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman tier 2

Red Tornado, Huntress, Question, Hawkgirl tier 3

Where are we?

[quote]the flash isn't suppose to be a bulky superhero b/c of his metabolism. he's suppose to be wiry, lean and athletic.

That's not exactly true. Barry Allen is normally drawn as a pretty built man, not wiry and lean. Not that I think it matters, Grant does fine in the role, just saying.

The original Flash, Jay Garrick, was not muscular and wore loose clothes but his successors, Barry Allen and Wally West, wore tight clothes that showed off their muscles.

Cisco has powers!

HITCH-HIKER'S GUIDE TO THE GALAZY REFERENCE!

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

WHAT THE SHIT?!? WHAT DID I JUST WATCH! OH MY GOD!!! JESUS CHRIST!!!

Oh...my...GAWD!!! What just happened?

Speaking of Jay Garrick - I loved how his helmet just randomly showed up.

This series is so CRAZY.

Of course, nothing that happened tonight made a lick of sense (scientifically or from any sort of consistent time-travel theory), but goddamn was it fun!

He can't die, he's the prettiest one on the show!

I kind of thought Eddie would not make it through the season when it was apparent he was not the reverse Flash, and when he and Iris had their moment, I was pretty sure of it.

I thought the Ed actor did a good job most of the season, but he might have been a little too one note over the top once his identity was revealed.

This isn't happening, say it isn't true!

There's been some theories that Eddie will return next season as the villain Cobalt Blue.

Now THAT was a cliff-hanger. Seriously.

It's a show about superheroes, who in the hell is critiquing the science?

Anyway, loved the finale. But I didn't understand that funny hat that flew out of the wormhole thing. Why did it frighten Wells?

That tin-hat is the hat of "The Flash" on the alternate earth, named Jay Garrick.

Which only indicates that things are going to get even crazier next year, with the possibility of parallel earths opening up.

Eddie! *crying*

Any word if they are going to bring Andy back as Pied Piper? In the comics he becomes friends with Barry and helps him battle Grodd.

Eddie looked extra hot tonight. Maybe they can cast Eddie as this ult universe Flash. I really need a hotter Flash.

Why did "older" Barry stop younger Barry from stopping his mother's murder?

I agree - great finale. Great show. And the special effects are just amazing. They deserve an award for the FX.

If he would have saved his mother, the Flash in this timeline would cease to exist.

[quote]Any word if they are going to bring Andy back as Pied Piper?

He's the lead on a new show which looks like it's going to suck, so, y'know, as soon as that's canceled, I'm sure he'll be back. They should recast him if he can't do it. He's a great character.

R142, but the current Barry went in knowing full well that life for him and his friends would change drastically as a result of his trip back in time, and he was okay with it.

I started crying like a girl when Barry's mom told him he looked just like her dad. Great season finale.

I think the Flash wasn't telling him not to save her. He was telling him to wait because he hadn't got young Barry to safety yet. At that moment, Barry decided not to save her. It was more important for him to get to say goodbye.

That was amazing!!

Is Amell coming into this show full time? Garber is leaving.

Isn't this sort of what happened in the first Avengers movie, though?

The more shows Berlanti does the crappier his first shows get: this years Arrow is a perfect example.

If Eobard no longer ever existed, how did STAR labs come to be? How did Barry become the Flash without Eobard? Shouldn't all the things Eobard did or caused go away or be significantly changed?

(Hey, Matt Letscher! Nice to see you again!)

Perhaps that's why the singularity opened - that timeline should no longer exist. The singularity was created to correct that.

[quote]If Eobard no longer ever existed, how did STAR labs come to be? How did Barry become the Flash without Eobard? Shouldn't all the things Eobard did or caused go away or be significantly changed?

Yeah, that's what I meant up-thread by "none of this episode made any sense".

RIP Eddie. That was one hot piece of ass.

Cisco with powers!

I love this show, but you really have to suspend disbelief. Barry is running at more than 700 miles per hour INSIDE A BUILDING?

And when you travel back in time, to land in the exactly place you want to be, you just think really hard about it? Why not click your ruby heels together?

They've just said that Tom C is coming back. Hopefully, now as a non-evil Harrison Wells. I think the show worked better with him in this role.

The official word is that the actor playing Eddie is gone. But he could come back as a lot of different characters. (Fingers crossed - Jay Garrick!)

The only comic-book Flash story I know well is "Flashpoint Paradox", which is what this has been.

In the actual story, Barry goes back... he saves his mom. And the whole world is changed way WAY for the worse. That story plays out for a long time. And he goes BACK again, and stops himself from saving his mom.

So in essence, what we see in the episode is that last part... that entire plot point was summed up in two seconds in this episode! All the world changing stuff happened to the "other" Flash!

That's so clever I almost can't stand it.

So let’s just get the questions out of the way. If Eobard never existed, doesn’t that mean he also never went back to the past? Isn’t the timeline going to be rewritten anyways? Does this mean the Flash’s mom is alive? Does this mean the original Harrison Wells is also alive? Will Barry return to a completely different timeline than the one he left? If Eddie only killed himself to erase Eobard, doesn’t that mean if Eobard doesn’t exist Eddie doesn’t need to kill himself, which means Eobard eventually gets born anyways? Paradox!

Here’s the fun part: I don’t care.

The episode was a ton of fun, and a great season finale.

r147/r149 - wasn't STAR LABS the creation of the real Dr. Wells? Remember - the guy who was completely eliminated from history is Eobard, who took over Dr Wells' body.

I found it a bit implausible that everyone was so willing to let Barry rewrite their lives so he could go back in time and make himself happy. I would have been "fuck you you selfish little twat - everyone has their bad shit to deal with, you ain't fucking with mine".

So, is it just me, or has both this show and Arrow gotten rid of their hottest men? (Eddie on The Flash, Roy on Arrow)?

Damn.

Maybe Grant couldn't handle not being the hottest guy on the show?

Barry and Eddie were in scenes together, right?

Yes... when Barry and Eddie were in the gym together sparring, the chemistry was electric. They totally should have been a couple.

We got into a sizzling debate last night about who should Iris be with. Eddie won 5 to 2. We think that Eddie and Iris would have the cuter kids.

If I were Barry I would have saved my mother.

Consequences be damned.

R143, what show is Andy on that he's the lead in?

Great show, great season finale. Why did they have to kill Eddie though, why not kill the useless Iris instead?

Hawkgirl made a cameo in the season finale.

[quote]Hawkgirl made a cameo in the season finale.

I didn't catch that. What scene?

During the end scene when Barry is running into the black hole you can see the actress cast to play Hawkgirl looking up at him.

There were lots of easter eggs, when Barry is running into the time warp you get a flash of Caitlin as "Killer Frost" which is inevitable to happen one day.

I found a link.

And a link about Caitlin as Killer Frost.

Looks like Jay Garrick and Wally West are coming for season 2

I loved the line when Ronnie told the professor to stop telling him what to do.

[quote] If I were Barry I would have saved my mother. Consequences be damned.

idk if you are a comics fan, I didn't bother to troll-dar stalk you, but saving his mom would create the Flashpoint Paradox, which ultimately created the New 52.

Eddie's body was pulled into the singularity in the accelerator ... seems like there could be something there.

I wonder if we will have to wait for all of season 2 for Killer Frost and Vibe. Will they be heroes, villains, or what? Perhaps this new particle accelerator event will create more metahumans?

The writers can make whatever rules they want about how Eobard's disappearance affects the timeline. Time travel has unknown rules, essentially.

Captain Cold and Hawkgirl had cameos ... will Rip Hunter and the Legends of Tomorrow save Central City from the black Hole? Maybe Rip will appear in time to save Eddie and/or Eobard before Eddie kills himself?

Will any of this affect Star(ling) City and our crew over there? Maybe the Canary Cry will become a legit super power instead of some really cool tech created on the fly by our cute little vibey engineer.

Jay Garrick? Wally West? Wally's dad would have to be Iris' brother, and there's been no mention of that, so I don't see that coming too soon. But Jay might be coming after that funky hat. You know those things don't grow on trees.

Will Iris become an independent woman instead of a snotty little girl?

Season 2 premiers on October 6.

Oh, and I keep reading that Victor Garber will be on Legends of Tomorrow, but I never see anything about Robbie Amell ... will he stay on The Flash? If so, what happens to Firestorm? It takes two to tango where he's concerned.

Green Arrow and Earth-2 are also coming to season 2

R171, go ahead and troll-dar stalk me if you want.

I am a comics fan.

I'm also a fan of live Moms.

R174, you mean Green Lantern?

R176 Stephen Amell confirmed that Green Arrow will be in Flash season 2 and that in season 4 of Arrow he finally become the Green Arrow.

Sorry I just meant I don't care enough to troll-dar stalk people the way some do because people who do that just seem to want to start a fight or use someone's older posts from different threads against them no matter how unrelated. It wasn't an insult to you. Just meant I didn't know how many people were in the discussion and I don't assume everyone who watches the show knows all the characters' histories in the comics.

Someone asked why Barry told himself not to save his mom. The consequences could have been even worse if he saved her even though he loved her and wanted her back (it happened that way in the comics as you probably know but others might not) so he wouldn't tell himself not to do it if there wasn't a damn good reason and he trusted his future self. I suspect this is part of the mystery of the season finale and will be further explained next season.

Maybe in a future season we will see the events that lead up to Barry going back in time to keep Wells/Eobard from killing Barry as a boy but who knows what will happen or can happen since Eddie killed himself meaning Wells/Eobard was never even born, but then how would we even get the particle accelerator in the first place?

I think this is what will be the focus of the Legends of Tomorrow series and possibly what creates Killer Frost and Hawkgirl (even though she's supposed to be from a different planet) and Vibe and all that. Can't wait to find out!

Sorry I know this post is long and confusing.

[quote] Stephen Amell confirmed that Green Arrow will be in Flash season 2

Does that need to be confirmed?! Of course Arrow is going to appear in "Flash" and Flash will appear in "Arrow", the whole point of doing the shared universe is so they can do those crossovers.

Both Amell and Grant will also be in the first episode of Legends of Tommorow.

Is Legends of Tomorrow going to be over the summer or running concurrently with Flash, Arrow, and Supergirl?

Might be difficult to keep all the consequences to each other's shows straight but I'm excited to see how it goes.

It's so cool how everything is related across shows just like the comics. Wish Gotham was involved, too, but Bruce is too young over there.

Is it wrong that I don't really care all that much about Legends of Tomorrow? Resurrecting Canary and taking Captain Cold away from Flash seems wrong.

R181 I think they might make it so Legends of Tomorrow is necessary to understand what happens in Flash and Arrow. They will probably at least have throwaway exposition lines referring to each other.

I don't think putting Captain Cold or the Atom in another show means they can't appear in Flash and Arrow anymore. They weren't in every episode anyway.

Resurrecting Sara Canary could be a result of the time line changing like a butterfly effect? She might be the Black Canary of a different timeline and Laurel stays in this one. I am not smart enough about physics and science to explain it properly but hopefully you get what I mean.

Isn't she the White Canary now? Rising from the Lazarus Pit?

The "Barry's mother was murdered" angle was -never- part of "Flash" lore. It was shoehorned in by Geoff Johns, when he resurrected Barry a few years ago.

Barry died 30 years ago. Wally West inherited the role, and was The Flash for decades.

Barry Allen was a police scientist who had read (Jay Garrick) Flash comics as a boy. When he gained his powers, he adopted the Flash persona as a homage. There was no Dead Mom melodrama.

"Flashpoint" was more Geoff Johns crap.

I must have missed Sara going into the Lazarus Pit unless it hasn't happened yet or happened off screen. Does it have to be within a certain amount of time from the death or could you dig up Abraham Lincoln's body and throw it in there? The only person I remember going in the Lazarus Pit was Ollie's sister.

OK yeah according to wikipedia Sara Lance goes into the Lazarus Pit and becomes White Canary.

It also says Legends won't air until 2016 and they will be going after Vandal Savage, so it doesn't seem to be a part of the Flash season finale storyline.

R184 Barry in the comics died during Crisis on Infinite Earths saving the multiverse from the Anti-monitor right?

And Wally West is supposed to be Iris' nephew? So would he be a black guy in this? Not that I care whether he's black but there is no mention of Iris having a brother on the show but that could change with the timeline changing?

Who is Jay Jackson? I thought maybe Cyborg but that is Victor Stone and the black Green Lantern is John Stewart.

R187 In the comics it was revealed that Iris was actually from the 30th century, and had been sent back to pre-1950s/60s/70s America as an infant for some contrived reason. Wally West has her nephew, but not genetically. She was raised by the Wests.

I understand that there's a biracial character named Wally West in the rebooted DC. I don't follow them anymore, save for reprints of Golden/ Silver Age work. The real Wally West and Donna Troy were written out.

Incidentally, in the comics Iris was murdered by Reverse-Flash/Prof. Zoom, when the writer was tired of writing Barry as a married man. There was an interminable trial, Barry charged with killing Zoom.

Here's hoping Ralph Dibny pops up. Earth-Two...sigh...

R162 Andy's new show is called LFE but Googling it, it looks like it might not have gone to series after all. It was ordered by CBS, which has a very stable line-up and usually orders very few new series. Looks like Supergirl might have edged it out. Sorry, Andy, but maybe that means we'll see him again after all. In the comics, he and David Singh fall in love, but David and his partner just got married on the show, so I don't think they're going to go there just yet.

[quote]Resurrecting Canary and taking Captain Cold away from Flash seems wrong.

I agree, but she's resurrected as White Canary, who is kind of a bad guy in DC comics lore (and also Asian but never mind that), and Mark Guggenheim has confirmed Captain Cold will be on Arrow, Flash and Legends of Tomorrow next year. Legends of Tomorrow is only getting a mini-series run, like Agent Carter on ABC this year, so the characters can visit other shows.

R171, see R152

R178, see R152

R191/R192, see R161.

Your post at R152 did not explain about the New 52 being the outcome of Flashpoint, which changed the continuity of the entire DCU. Congrats on knowing the story but you didn't explain the consequences or why it was a big deal.

Because it's pretty irrelevant imho... R152 is all you really need to know as a TV viewer.

Drama queen Eddie might've considered a vasectomy first.

I wish they had cast Pied Piper as a series semi-regular.

Exactly R195. Or he could pledge to only have sex with men for the rest of his life. Much better.

A run-down of what w saw in Flash's time travel visions (I didn't catch any of this!):

The Wally West on the show will probably be Joe's nephew.

[quote]Or he could pledge to only have sex with men for the rest of his life. Much better.

Lol, if only. That would be a great alternate ending. To save the world Barry...I am going to need you to always take care of my sexual needs and make sure I don't touch a woman. It's the only way!

Someone needs to get writing on that story.

[quote]The Wally West on the show will probably be Joe's nephew.

Wally (Allen-West) will come from the future and secretly be Iris and Barry's son...

That was a very slow deliberate shot of Eddie getting sucked into the wormhole. A lot of people think he comes back as someone else next season.

The ham fisted Legends of Tomorrow shout out from Dr. Wells was so silly. "Rip Hunter would be so proud. He built the first one. Interesting guy. Coming next January 2016 only on the CW!"

I bet Cisco's ability to see in between the parallel universes comes in handy next year. I loved the Jay Garrick reference.

Having grown up in the 70s as a BIG DC Comics fan it's kind of surreal that I'm living in an age when DC heroes are in their own series and they're being done so well.

It's great.

I wish they could translate their success to the big screen.

Imagine a feature film of The Justice League of America with the satellite and Black Canary and the Hawks and Atom and Ralph and Oliver and Hal...plus, the big three of course.

It'd be amazing.

[quote]Imagine a feature film of The Justice League of America with the satellite and Black Canary and the Hawks and Atom and Ralph and Oliver and Hal...plus, the big three of course.

I agree, R202. I also grew up with DC in the 70s. Besides the ones you mentioned, I'd love to see Red Tornado and Zatanna done properly.

Awesome "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" reference!

R203 They did Zatanna pretty well on "Smallville." Serena Scott was gorgeous.

The actress who plays The Green Arrow sister recently said that they had big plans for Harley Quinn on Arrow but when DC decided to do The Suicide Squad movie they took her and The Suicide Squad's Deadshot(killed off) and others away from them.

R205. She is no super hero

That sucks, R206.

DC has been doing so well on TV (and not at all at the movies)... and now they're screwing up TV and not improving the movies at all.

r208 that's also that's also why the Supergirl tv show will try to avoid mentioning or connecting her to Superman.DC decides which characters their shows can and cannot use and don't seem to want to have any connection between their tv shows and movies unlike Marvel and the properties they control(Agents of Shield, Avengers movies, Daredevil tv show, ect.).DC now wants you to think of Will Smith when talking about Deadshot and not the actor who played him on Arrow.

The Flash/Arrow universe is expanding with a Vixen web series and Grant Gustin and Stephen Amell will reprise their Flash and Arrow Characters and if the show does well then Vixen will probably appear on the Flash and Arrow tv shows with the possibility of a Vixen live action tv show.

I wonder if, when (WHEN, I say) that Suicide Squad movie flops like a fish out of water, they'll bring these characters back to the Arrow/Flash universe. Just having Tara Strong voice those 2 lines as Harley in that one Arrow episode was so cool. And Sean Maher was a wonderful Schrapnel.

Well r211 that's up to DC to decide and I still don't understand why they had to pull the Suicide Squad characters from Arrow/Flash since the Tv show and movies are separate from each other.

No one understands, R212. No one. They especially didn't have to be killed off - that was pointless and stupid.

I'm really excited about the Vixen web series, I hope it does grow into an actual TV show.

r205 thanks for posting the picture of Serena Scott as Zatanna. I remember seeing her on Graceland and thinking she would have made a great Wonder Woman.

.....

Hello!

What's a guy gotta do to get Grant Gustin to sit on his face?

Be this person in the middle r217

r145, so Barry told Barry not to save his mother because Barry hadn't gotten to safety yet?

The whole thing is weird...I wish Barry (ANY Barry) had saved his mother!

ok, the pic with supergirl is really cute.

r219 if Barry had saved his mother he would have made things worse for himself and unleashed the 52

So I guess we are to assume that Supergirl is part of the Arrow/Flash universe and that Barry might make an appearance.

From what I've read from everyone involved on both shows, it sounds like that's a work in progress.

R291, as described above, in the comics he DID save his mother, and the new timeline was horrible, so basically what we saw was THAT Flash (the one who had saved his mother) going back in time to tell his original self to NOT save her.

Basically, it was a wink and a nod to a very long and detailed plot arc in the comics, and was done rather cleverly actually.

So basically, he did save her, lived with the consequences, decided that they were too horrible to live with, and so went back and undid his meddling and told his original self to NOT save her, thus preserving the timeline our current Flash is in.

Complicated (like all time travel plots), but there you go.

question: was the new timeline worse for Barry's mother?

That was actually pretty clever of them, R224.

Legends of Tomorrow starts shooting next week. It's connected to The Flash, full of LGBT actors and crew and has at least one LGBT character, possibly two now that Andy Mientus' fall pilot didn't get picked up. I'm easy and that's enough to get me psyched about it.

They wasted Pied Piper's character in the 1st season by only having him in two eps. They could have done so much and Mientus pulled off playing an extremely unlikable guy well (although that is not what he is in the comics but who cares at this point). They need to bring the character back and if that means recasting him then be it. Can't believe the LGBT producer didn't care for their only gay villain.

Adam "The Edge" Copeland has been cast as Atom Smasher for season 2 and The Flash was nominated for an Emmy for Outstanding Special Visual Effects

As long as they get Grant Gustin shirtless as often as possible I'll be happy. I know he's not a traditional hunk type but damn I love his shirtless body on that show. His ass is remarkable. Just saying, carry on!

So apparently Rick Cosnett got cast as a gay character on Quantico. I knew there was that something about him. Never bought him as straight.

Ha! I immediately thought of this place when I read the news, R230.

Too funny.

He was also Wes Maxfield in The Vampire Diaries... he's sofa king hot.

Quantico is on Sunday Nights... one of the most over-stuffed TV nights ever. I may have to upgrade my DVR (which can only mange 2 shows at once) at this rate...

Because of COURSE I have to check it out just to see him in a gay role, and see how they handle it :-)

[quote]So apparently Rick Cosnett got cast as a gay character on Quantico. I knew there was that something about him. Never bought him as straight.

So you're saying that only gay actors can play gay characters? What a load bullshit.

Costnett was born in Zimbabwe and moved to Australia when he was 17. He's one of those people that can seem gay even if they're not. I sort of see white African coming through from everything he does and that's something that can throw off gaydar. Not saying he isn't gay, I wouldn't mind at all since I'm a gay man myself but sometimes people are not gay, just European. Or in this case African Australian.

Jay Garrick and Patty Spivot are coming in season 2

True r234 and it makes sense why people's gaydar was going off. I knew he was from Australia but never knew he was originally European-African. European men always seem to trick American's gaydar.

The massive chemistry he had with Barry in that boxing scene... damn. That was awesome to witness.

I'm sure he will get to shine much better in his new gay role. He always had way more chemistry with Grant than he ever did with the girl that played Iris.

Devon Graye is so hot.