Phillip Spaulding's enormous package

Our prior thread, already in progress (and nearly full):

Thanks for starting a new one, I really enjoy the GL threads. We all seem to mind our manners in Springfield.

That nurse at about 28:00 is trying to strong arm Rita Bauer into getting that abortion!

GL is really feeling the love here!

A DL favorite apparently watched GL with his "mum."

Someone in the other thread called Spauldings legacy characters. The only legacy Spaulding is Alan-Michael. I don't recall any Spauldings listening to Rev. Rutledge's sermons on the radio.

"Legacy characters" seems to be a weird term that emerged in the 90s. People apply it to any character that's been there for more than 10 years. I heard it used often to describe ATWT's Carly, who hardly fit the bill.

For the person who asked about Carmen Duncan at the end of the previous GL thread.....

You may want to pose it in the AW one.

Elijah Wood said "mum"?

He talks about GL as if it was some show no one could have ever heard of. "This show called Guiding Light. It must've been on in the afternoon cuz I was little and not in school" Bitch, GL is iconic and many actors your stupid ass has worked with have starred on that show. Ever heard of Kevin Bacon? James Earl Jones? Calista Flockhart? Sherry Stringfield? Frances Fisher? Matt Bomer? And a million other Hollywood stars? He is thick as shit acting like his ass wasn't secretly wishing he was Beth Raines running around having Lujack, Phillip and India wanting in your pants!!!!!

R7 Frank Cooper is a legacy character by that definition.Wow I never saw Frank in that way but longevity must stand for something.Especially when Melina was talking behind his Greek backside.

I was happy when they killed off Uncle Stavros.

1994 became the Justin Deas show featuring the GL logo.

Please let this be a Prancing Pony Free zone.

Or I'll be the one threatening to get this thread shut down.

Legacy characters are characters or families who appeared in the first year of the soap or who are connected to an original character or family via marriage or some other familial connection, friends don't count.

Elijah is a pretentious twat.Why even bother mentioning GL unless of course he was influenced by La Dusay at her campiest height.Judging from his middling acting he seemed to be influenced by the zombie soaps the Bells did and still do.

Pathetically, I can still remember a commercial for 'Capitol' which showed Grant Alexander (who played DJ) in a black speedo.

Didn't watch the show, but wished I had that picture.

I remember Grant playing a waiter in a gay bar in some movie with Kirk Douglas and Burt Lancaster.

Got to 6:35 in this youtube clip of a GL episode. It takes place a day or so after Phillip got his father thrown out of Spaulding.

There's nice stuff here between Grant and Carl Evans who played his younger brother.

You hardly ever got to see dynamics between men like this on soaps. Normally, guys would always be pitted against each other, competing for the love of the same woman.

The acting, writing and characterization is quite good.

I don't think the kid playing Alan-Michael was that good, but I think Grant's patience helps elevate him.

There's also some classic Alan/Alex stuff later in the same episode. I think it was their last scene together as Chris Bernau soon left the show and was replaced by Daniel Pilon.

R9, I was never interested in getting into Beth Raines' pants, as you put it.

R17

The best Alan-Michael was Rick Hearst.

I want a spin off featuring

India Dolly Darcy and Sonni

as a crime-fighting military ops quartet a la the A-Team.

La Bev's Iris had Vivienne the maid.

La Bev's Alex had a maid too. Anyone remember the maid's name?

I remember the maid called Alex: "Peanut".

SCTV had The Days of the Week with Violet and Mojo

Alex's maid was 'Vera'.

"GL" killed off Uncle Stavros?!

I thought he merely left town.

Don't forget Ginger (played by Allison Janney) and Donna.

r21, didn't Alexandra have Vera the cook?

By the way, can somebody start an As the World Thread and call it "Kiddo Kim, Bad Bob and Drunk Andy" in honor of the Hughes family?

R26 You can post ATWT stuff here.

I'm a bit nervous with an active GL and AW thread that we may tip the scale and have too many out there.

So listen, toots. Post here! Kim Hughes said so!

I recently visited the Paley Center in Los Angeles and saw several episodes of ATWT from the 1960's.They included,The complete 11/22/63 show which was never broadcast.Taped for the West Coast feed later that afternoon.The cast was unaware of the real-life tragedy unfolding in Dallas.The Christmas 1965 show which included characters Dan and Paul Stewart,Who, If you closed your eyes you may think he was being played by Davey Wavey.The highlight was the 1/5/66 show in which Ellen (then Cole) told the Stewart housekeeper Franny that upon her marriage to David Stewart her services will no longer be needed.Franny who had designs on being Mrs.David Stewart herself threatened to tell Dan Stewart (who was in fact Ellen's son born out-of-wedlock) Ellen freaked and bludgeoned the housekeeper with a statue.They have many more of ATWT,GL ,EON,SFT as well as other TV & radio shows.

Kim's infuriated monologue after Bob's affair came out. Sorry for the shit quality guys! This is Classic Kim!!!!

"Do you know how felt having to get up and go through the motions of the day when all I wanted to do is lay in this bed and CRY? But no - I kept pluggin' along!"

R29, it was "STAY in this bed and cry," not "LAY in this bed and cry."

I knew Kim would never say "lay" when the correct word was "lie."

WHET Hogan Sheffer?

It was quite startling to see Mary Kay Adams play the sensitive and introverted Neal Alcott on ATWT, after the passion & torment of India von Halkein. It makes you remember that daytime performers are actually ACTORS, capable of playing more than one memorable role if they are given a chance. To this day, I don't know if Marland intended to kill her off after six months or not. It was heart wrenching, it messed me up just as much as losing Maureen Bauer, even though MKA had only been in the role for a matter of months.

R7 Carly a legacy character. I laugh my evil laugh.

"Lily, why won't you come home, darling? Why do you insist on staying on at that awful farm?!"

R34 "Pussycat."

"Lily, why won't you come home, darling? Why do you insist on staying on at that awful farm?!"

Carly was a good villainess in her first 5 years. They messed it up by making her a heroine. It's the same thing that happened to Reva on Guiding Light.

Barbara goes off on Cuntly: "You're no more a mother than a REPTILE who lays its eggs and then slithers off into the bushes!"

Carly sucked from day one. Worst character of all time. She ruined ATWT.

r39, she didn't suck until she became a model citizen. That's true of most soap characters that started off as bitches and bastards. You could write a book about this trend.

I knew ATWT was over when I started reading "Jarly" on the internet. And then "CarJack." I stop breathing every time I read "CarJack."

The Carly/Jack/Julia triangle was a retread of Reva/Josh/Annie in many ways.

Spaulding sounds like a slang word for someone's cock, doesn't it?

"How big is your spaulding?" "Get out your spaulding."

Fuck that's so fucking hot. I have this fantasy of being sent to a prison full of really hard, nasty, sleazy, tatted n!ggers and ch0los with huge weapons between their sweaty, unwashed thighs. I mean huge, really ripe, rank, cheesy fucksticks and being made to service them, turned into a fucking ph@ggot cumpit, pregnant with their hot, poz jiss, farting cum while they ream my shitpipe with their master rods of pain and pleasure.

I loved Carly and Maura West. Made Mike and Rosanna interesting for the first time.

Doug Marland wanted Mary Kay Adams to stay longer, but she only wanted that short run.

Hogan Sheffer got lucky with a total of ONE storyline and a glowing puff piece. He can't actually write anything good.

Lucinda was the epitome of an attractive cunt.She had a cold blooded WASPiness at tomes and then could be a raging bitch.Martha Byrne was fine as Lily but she didn't have "the to the manor born " act down at all.She was better at playing Rose. I did resent her for sampling Segante's big thick uncut Milanese cock.Martha must have been an animal in bed to have landed that hunk.

I remember when Philip and mindy (played by Krista Tesereau? ) were doing a love scene and boing he showed how much he was into it.

R44 Wrong soap deary.Check out GH they had a male prison rape on there.You should feel right at home.

Liz Hubbard as Lucinda had the same persona that Marlene Dietrich and Kristin Scott Thomas perfected on film.

R28..I never understood why Marland did not bring up Ellen's murderous background...it would have made her more interesting. Seems he would be all over having Ellen break a leg and needing home assistance and its Frannie Brennan's psycho granddaughter who starts to drug her, and start a lesbian relationship with Emily for revenge..(1st Emily not boring blond helmet head Emily..)

I started really hating soaps when the weird couple fans got involved...with the Carjack and worst of all was all the "Gush" fans! I remember this one woman..Della was her name who lived and died by Gush's daily make ups and break ups and this really weird woman who was almost stalking LW. Its almost like she didnt care about Cassie the character just LW answering her weird letters.

[quote] That's true of most soap characters that started off as bitches and bastards. You could write a book about this trend.

Yeah, I think that's part of it.

In the old days you'd have a handful of regulars and then people who would be in their orbit for a few years.

Now the villains and bitches/bastards stay and it's hard to sustain belief or interest. Is there anything that Victor Newman could do, short of setting Nikki on fire, that could surprise anyone?

Is there anyone Carly on GH wouldn't sleep with?

No one really pays, or is ever affected by anything. That makes people not want to watch.

I can't believe the title of this thread.

I started one a while ago, but it was more subtle, something about the Springfield Country Club having a new tennis pro.

Grant, if you read this please know that we don't admire you just for your body.

You're kind pet activist, I hear.

R52 Yes, Grant always comes across as smart and kind in interviews.

I hear he was "difficult" from time to time on GL, but from what his costars have said, it was always to fight to do the best work possible.

He is a dedicated animal activist.

Krista was a very attractive woman.She was much better on GL than OLTL.I don't remember Cord Roberts showing wood like Grant did though.Grant was more into the method for sure.......

Yes, r37, I always thought that Reva should have ended up like her archetypal nemesis Miss Sally Gleason, interfering, manipulative, over-protective of her loved ones, throwing her boobs in the face of those she deemed lesser than her like Sally did her hats.

Hated when they turned 90s Reva into the Marlena Evans of GL, it's own Reillyesque cartoonish heroine. She was kidnapped and cloned and presumed dead and almost killed many times and time travelled through paintings. There was even that prerequisite Reva scene that had to take place in all of the storylines at some point - like the universe revolved around her. For months, Reva had absolutely nothing to do with the Holly-as-stalker story, but at the climax, she was suddenly thrown into it, talking a distraught Holly off a bridge.

That's what they called it at Lincoln Prep, my friend.

Yes, r50, one of the worst things to happen to soaps was the fangurl internet fans and their pathetic labeling of supercouples by meshing names together - Bloss, Matessa, Manny, Rassie ... hated it. Couple stories were supposed to be about two individuals involved in a relationship, then they became all about one melded entity, one single personality. Fucking fraus killed the soaps through the net.

r56 is directed to r43

Matt Reardon, with those blue eyes...lawd have mercy.

Who were "Gush," R50?

"Bloss" was one of my favorites, too, R57. It made me want to shoot the internet.

No r49, the Dietrich of daytime was Beverlee McKinsey.

I would have loved to have seen Beverlee McKinsey and Maura West act opposite one another.

If La Bev was MD then who was La Dusay? Judy Garland or even more apropos Liza Minelli.

R60 Gush was Gus and Harley. I remember that Della poster wanted the show to be renamed "GL, the new generation," or something with Gus and Harley as like a Nancy and Chris Hughes I guess. When people complained about people like Rick and Ross being put on recurring she would tell them times change. THEN Gus died and Harley left town a skanky ho and I thought she might have to be put on suicide watch.

The funniest was anything revolving around "Manny," and "Rassie," and one woman got hit by a car as she was so distracted worrying about Richard dying and then when they tried to put LW with the Danny actor people sent her Big Bird dolls (they called her big bird I guess) and Voodoo Dolls with pins in them! No wonder the execs gave us crap..look at the nuts watching this!

r61, get the fuck out of here. She was the Garbo of daytime you dumb fuck. Hubbard was the Dietrich.

I would give anything to see Beverlee McKinsey and Cynthia Watros act this scene together:

I loved Bev, but she was cursed to always look at least 10 years older than her actual age.

I love it, two queens arguing over which obscure soap actress as the 'Dietrich of daytime'.

The tragedy of having an enormous cock is that... Wait, there is no tragedy. It's fucking awesome.

Carry on.

Gush fans were the worst, right behind Pharley fans. My skin crawls just thinking about them. Then the Manny and Rassie fans were nutso too. GL had SO MANY nutty, younger fans then. They ruined the show with their constant jockeying for attention from TPTB.

What happened to the days when people loved Phillip and Beth but when she got with Lujack, people didn't get all suicidal, hating VI for breaking up the beloved Phillip and Beth.

Yes, I was SHOCKED to find out how young Bev was when she started GL. I thought she was in her 60's easily.

Tough task to find shirtless pics of Grant on Google images. I found one screen shot from YouTube .....

I thought the internet was the keeper of everything.

Stop being so harsh about Beverlee. This thing about how 'old' she looked had EVERYTHING to do with her hairstyle. Sometimes, especially in the AW days, her hair was done to make her look matronly. She had other hairstyles through her GL days which were flattering and did not age her. I love how Alex pronounced Ross as 'Rorse'.

I love Liz Hubbard, though my love for Beverlee is on a slightly higher plane. There is nothing that can compete with her work. Nothing.

But Hubbard is in my top 10.

If Lucinda and Alex met in a scene, who would have come out on top? It's not an easy question to answer, is it....

It would have been delightful to see them go head to head.

I wonder if Matt Bomer ever fingered his hole in his dressing room at GL, thinking about Grant's big dick ramming inside?

r76, Matt Bomer's lucky he wasn't on the show at the same time as Wendy Moniz. She would have kept him in the closet, big time! Maneater extraordinaire.

R76 He for sure fingered his hole thinking about Grant's huge dong. No doubt.

Maybe we can spend the summer at Laurel Falls.

[quote] I thought the internet was the keeper of everything.

A lot of the great shirtless shots were on the Soap Hunks website, which apparently vanished in the last year or so.

"UUUUUUUGGGGGGGGH I HATE THAT NAAAAAAME!"

Barbara Rush & Marla Adams also could've done a good job as 'Alex'

Definitely Marla Adams

R67, you got that right!

r74, they would eventually have become friends.

And I cast my vote For Barbara Rush as a recast Alex (didn't she audition?). She sounded and acted and looked exactly like McKinsey when she appeared on AMC.

Marla Adams was great, but too melodramatic.

I can't believe alot of Grant's early work isn't on the net. Those were the years when he paraded around in muscle shirts and shorts in his bedroom at the Marlers. He was a gay boy's wet dream.

There's a 1988 shot of his feet at 49:50ish for foot fetishists:

There are a few pics of Grant on this thread of the soap opera network board.

Alexandra Spaulding debuted in February 1984, Lucinda debuted in April 1984. I think this was due to the success of Alexis Carrington. They wanted strong ball busting women in daytime.

Maeve Kinkead encased in fur looking like Joan Crawford, saying goodbye to everyone when she called it quits in 88 ...

The Vanessa-Dinah sweetness would not last (thank God!) ... and it's too bad Ross and Vanessa didn't end up with one another before the show ended. I never bought Matt or Billy - Ross was the only man who connected with Vanessa.

r89, did Dinah undergo a complete personality transplant or what?!!!

It was a smart move to change Dinah from the sweet ingénue to the trouble-maker, but did anyone find her a little tedious at times. Maybe they kept her obsessed with Hart for too long and she needed to move to other ventures and not be quite as whiney.

For a five year period, Dianh and Vanessa had the same argument where Di would throw the adoption in Vanessa's face and talk about her emotional trauma being put to work in a carnival to which Vanessa would reply, "They told me you were with a good family!"

r91, Dinah became obsessed with Hart, staging a suicide attempt, getting burned(literally) when one of her schemes backfired (pun intended - remember the scar on her face?), and getting pregnant by another man and calling it Hart's after drugging him. It would have been fine to watch this unravel as Dinah did since it tapped into GL's history of Vanessa and Nola's classic bad girl shenanigans, but it lead to a complete character assassination (Dinah KILLING Hart!) - and the fact she was not the only female unraveling in town at the time.

Barbara Estesten and James Harmon Brown - who crafted the brilliant LOVING murders over at ABC and wrote the last season of DYNASTY - revealed themselves to be quite the misogynists during their tenure as co-HWs for GL in the late 90s - or maybe it was the influence of creep extraordinare Paul Rauch? Whatever the cause, all the women of Springfield turned into unbalanced hysterical messes.

Beth returned to town with a complete character makeover - a manipulative, neurotic, grasping tramp; Blake was a 1950s horny housewife and adulterer; Nola was stalking Buzz and taking advantage of his amnesia to keep him away from Jenna; Holly was stalking the other women of Springfield, sending them threatening notes and poisoning them with spiders, kidnapping their children and eventually causing Jenna's death; Annie went super-psycho and spent her whole entire days obsessing over Josh and Reva and lying and scheming and hatching outlandish plots ... even Vanessa was considering a facelift to hold on to her younger husband. Women could only be neurotic, hysterical and crazy in Rauch's world.

At 47:15, John Wesley Shipp, Lisa Brown and Tom Neilson return to Guiding Light in 1987 to introduce a classic clip requested by viewers during GL's 50th anniversary week. This would be the very last time both men would appear during GL.

Michael Zaslow returned to do a spot like this for the 87 celebrations before his return in 89. These cameos must have been such a huge treat for pre-internet audiences.

Shipp looks amazingly hot.

Lisa Brown talks down to the viewers like they are children or very, very slow.

Bonus: the much-hated Lacey Bauer gets final shot for the day before Shipp & Co's appearence.

Around 50:11, Ed Bryce returns for the 1987 celebrations to introduce a tribute to Charita Bauer:

Did anyone find Lisa Brown hot?She might have been decent looking but she could act.There might have been better looking women on the show like Moniz,Wright,Budig etc so on but none had acting chops like Brown.

In the whole LA Bev vs LA Hubbard debate it's apples and oranges.I prefer Liz though.She had an edge that she nimbly kept in check in times.She was almost like an actress in an old screwball comedy.The type of woman who was called a dame back in those films.She also had some great interplay with Martha Byrne who was more of a personality than an actress.

Grant shaves his pubes. Bald down below.

R97 How would you have that knowledge? Did you sample his three piece set?

It was mentioned by a blogger who saw him at the gym.

Grant Aleksander and Michael O'Leary introduce a classic clip at around mark 51:50 revolving around one of the greatest love stories of all time - that of Phillip and Rick.

GA is just the epitome of preppy sexy.

This was the episode featuring the famous Alan-Michael parachuting intro at the Bauer BBQ.

If you look closely at the end of this episode when the crowd learns who the parachuter is, you can see Grant Aleksander's real-life wife in the background, just behind Carl Tye Evans.

Who did Rauch fuck on the show? Whose feet did Marland worship on any of his shows?

Alexandra's maid telling her to dress sexier for her gentlemen callers....

More Alex and Vera. This maid wasn't as stupid as Vivian on Another World.

They were always trying to create a worthy servant for Alex in line of a Vivian Gorrow ever since McKinsey joined the show - it was like it was a prerequisite for McKinsey, a "given".

They had that awful Jane character be her housekeeper when McKinsey first joined the show. Jane was an ex-con part of another storyline (something to do with Company and the Reardons?) and she recognized Alex from Alex's time in Milwaukee (where she lost her son). She was supposed to be straight-from-the-hip and wisecracking, but she wasn't funny and worthless and just disappeared without notice.

Then Alex had Lillian's sister Calla Matthews as her Girl Friday, which worked well because it figured into many stories, and McKinsey and Lisby Larson had great chemistry dating back to their story together on TEXAS.

Then years later, all of a sudden we had Vera, the big black Mamie who apparently brought Alex and Alan up when they were children and had been in the kitchen all these years. She worked the best with McKinsey, but it was just so forced that it was almost insulting (and a bit racist). Vera just disappeared too.

There was also a butler that appeared along with Vera (Fritz?). He was supposed to be comic relief. He just disappeared one day as well.

I noticed watching Marland's episodes of GL on YT that servants were always given more consideration than just token background. Alan and Hope had the British Laurie for years, and Amanda had Maggie; Quint, of course, had Mrs. Renfield and Fritz the butler.

In the 90s, when she reigned as Spaulding queen, Jenna had the comedic team of Donna and Ginger (who was played by a young Alison Janney) as her maids. They stayed on for a while to work for Dusay's Alex.

R103,

Frances Foster played Vera. I don't what year marked her first airdate. She was on in the early-1990s. (Beverlee McKinsey quit [italic]Guiding Light[/italic] in 1992.)

Foster died in 1997.

Thank you R94 for posting that. I saw three of the anniversary clips online and couldn't figure out where the other two were.

God, Shipp was scorching hot in that clip. Beard looked very sexy on him!

The black maids on CBS Daytime brought me great comfort, Vera on Guiding Light, Mamie on Y&R and yet they were undeniably a throwback to the Mammy archetype of slavery days, and although they certainly weren't slaves, they existed solely to be concerned about the lives of their employers whose virtue they could never doubt, without any interior, conflicted life of their own.

McKinsey didn't care for Zaslow.

Typical PG. They thought dropping the "the" from The Guiding Light would make the show younger. Idiots.

At least Mamie and Abbott patriarch John fell in love with one another.The first step in attaining a big AA audience for Y and R.

Kinsley disliked MZ? So did the P and G folks.Why did they treat him like such shit when he came down with MS.OLTL was so much classier when it came to taking care of Zaslow.

They should have let Zaslow remain as Thorpe and have him deal with the ALS in character. It would have got him another Emmy and finally redeemed the character as Holly finally witnesses his courage. Huge missed opportunity.

I never got the appeal of Grant Aleksander. Sure he had a nice body, but his face sure wasn't. I remember some people used to call him "Skeletor" on some of the old Soap Newsgroups because of his long, somewhat "boney" face.

A great link to what may have been one of Beverlee's last interviews in 2000, for Soap Opera Weekly.

The last paragraph is the one where she says of Zaslow that while she is sad that he died so horribly, they were, in her words, not friends.

R112 I always thought he was hot. And he looked like a guy with serious BDF.

A fact I was happy to have a chance to confirm in person!

Why did Zimmer come back?

Because the only work she got was a Designing Woman episode, a SEINFELD episode and a guest spot on MODELS INC. Her attempt to create another role with Pam Long on SANTA BARBARA was a disaster. JFP didn't want Zimmer back at all (a decision I actually agreed with), but caved to pressure from PTB to do the ghost story. Viewer reaction was positive, so JFP got the boot and Zimmer was told she was hired full-time. Newman was happy - he had been wanting her back since his return. They even made a point to appear together at a Soap Celebration telecast to start the ball rolling and drop thje idea in producers heads that fans wanted Josh and Reva back.

Newman and Zimmer got what they wanted. Incidentally, after Josh and Reva came back to head the cast, GL proceeded to slowly die a long and painful death.

Actually, r110, the John-Mamie romance was a complete disaster. There was viewer backlash and Bill Bell succumbed under network pressure to drop the story. It was the first time he ever really did that. Mamie was written out soon after.

At the beginning of this clip, after Justin and Ross, brief scene, sandy-blonde haired and tanned Phillip is seen in a muscle shirt and tiny tight white shorts, muscular legs stretching as far as the eye can see, grooming a stud in the country club stables...

R117 That wasn't the point.Mamie wasn't just a maid she was in love with John and vice versa.She went beyond the stereotype of a token black laid.

Uncle Ed tries to pretend that his godson Kelly's wet and wild body isn't giving him a boner:

Ed likes Kelly. Who is Kelly to him? I wasn't watching then.

At mark 1:45, Floyd Parker and some chick take a drunken Phillip back to his apartment and proceed to take off his shirt and shoes in preparation for what one can guess is a menage a trois:

[quote]At least Mamie and Abbott patriarch John fell in love with one another.The first step in attaining a big AA audience for Y and R.

Y&R already had a massive black audience well before that. Later, Vicky Rowell and Shemar Moore are what cemented it forever.

I remember a lot of Y&R scenes with Jill screaming at Mamie when the maid exposed her affairs, telling her she had a "disgusting face" and that she was just "a servant". Shocking stuff. Jill had a history of racism, I remember when she refused to hire Dru as a model at Jabot saying she had "the wrong look". But Bell never wrote in the show that Jill was an obvious racist.

[quote]But Bell never wrote in the show that Jill was an obvious racist.

R124 has never heard of subtext. How much more clearly did you need to have it spelled out?

Jill used to shrill at Mamie "You're the MAAIIID!"

Brenda Dickson's Jill used to have fun banter with Mamie. Only in the 90s did the relationship become tenuous. Check out this fun clip when Mamie (the original actress) complains about new gardener Brad Carlton working with his shirt off. Jill is adamant he will keep working that way as long as she is mistress of this house! Hilarious fun:

r119, I think you probably meant "maid" ... but your typo could work too.

r121, Kelly was Ed's godson and protege. His father Frank was Ed's best friend in med school. After his death, Kelly came to Springfield to go to med school and Ed took him in and treated him like a son.

R123 I doubt that it had such a big black audience before Mamie came on.That was my point.Mamie coming on was the beginning of that trend. Not because John and Mamie fell in love.

Brenda Dickson was pure camp.Since this is a GL and kinda of a ATWT thread I don't remember anyone as bad as BD on those soaps.Keep in mind that Rauch was fucking the talent and Marland had a thing for feet.JFP was fucking one of the leads at AW and he wasn't that bad.BD must have given Bill Bell the best blow jobs he had ever got because she was one shitty actress.She was fun and nice to look at but a terrible actress.

Focus on my huge, girthy, pendulous cock, please.

This is a treat for history buffs.

There are actually episodes from as early as 1977 on YT. They were recorded with a video camera (filming the actual TV screen).

The episodes revolve around Bill Bauer's return from the dead - the Bauers are celebrating Mike's award from the Chamber of Commerce unaware their long-thought dead father is lurking in the shadows watching his son's honor.

The other major story is the arrival of the Spaulding family from Chicago. These are Alan Spaulding's first scenes in Springfield. Alan, his wife Elizabeth and their son Phillip are staying with Jackie Marler, whom Elizabeth met in Switzerland where she gave birth to Phillip. Little do the Spauldings know that Jackie is Phillip's biological mother.

This scene also marks the very first meeting between Alan and his future nemesis Mike Bauer (as well as Mike and Elizabeth)!

(Interesting that Alan has instructed Elizabeth to find them a house in Springfield; it would later be rewritten that the Spauldings were one of the founding families of Springfield and they have lived there for generations).

OMG! That helmet hair! It's like Toni Tennille found her big rollers.

This reminds of the Guiding Plight - the spoof done by members of the cast. Seven parts on YouTube, though for me the exchange between Rita and Bert is the funniest.

You can see the first actress to play Hilary Bauer before Marsha Clark later took on the role:

(Btw, did they ever have Hilary's brother Paul Kinkead on the show? Was he Bill's son too?)

From 1979 - Tom Nielsen's first episode as Floyd Parker (Denise Pence is such a natural!).

Would someone please give me a synopsis of the Rita character. Was she just a big slut or damaged good girl or what? It seems like she and Holly had the same kind of energy.

Actually, Olivia was so similar to Rita in many ways that many people thought Liv would eventually be revealed as Rita's child with Ed.

She certainly SHOULD have been, but that was yet another missed opportunity.

I love the youtube comments on these classic soap clips!!!

[quote]In the '80s, soaps were the last place where you could still find old time Hollywood glamour, great dramatic acting and fabulous clothes. Eileen Fulton and Kathryn Hays were like the Bette Davis and Barbara Stanwyck of daytime TV.

OK, GL whores! I have a task for you.

Do any of you remember when Pam Long returned for her second run in 1987? An exact week or month?

I'm trying to find a particular episode on YouTube (or write some of the posters there and see if they have it on old videotapes).

I know it's somewhere after July of 1987, because the 50th anniversary episodes were written by the old writers.

I'm going with some time between September/October 1987,That's when we were introduced to the Coopers and the actress who played Lacey Bauer was fired.who was rumored to have called Beverlee McKinsey a bitch.

I'm guessing that too, R140. I have to see if one of these YouTube folks has it.

What episode are you looking for, r139?

R140 writes,

[quote] … the actress who played Lacey Bauer was fired.who was rumored to have called Beverlee McKinsey a bitch.

Is it Zoe Trilling?

R142 It's a scene where Josh and Reva just broke up because she thinks maybe Mara is Kyle's kid. Alan offers to pay her money to tell him a story about eating garbage.

It was Pam Long's first week back and you could immediately tell that whoa, something was happening that was different.

Josh was a snoozefest compared to Kyle. I wonder if TPTB ever toyed with Malloy being Jefferson/Brown/Schuy Whitney when he first came on GL. I loved the chemistry Kyle and Reva had together.

Yes R143

That was classic, r145. And it marked the return of Pam Long, who wanted to take the character of Reva back to her roots. Out came the red dress and Reva the scarlet woman re-entered from stage left. That scene with Bernau was the one and only time I liked Reva/Zimmer.

I've never seen it on YT, btw.

It wasn't long before the writers strike hit and we lost a lot of momentum after Long's return.

Long was a wonderful HW and it is too bad she couldn't be persuaded to come back in the 90's when the show needed her.

Is Phillip's package as big as mine, though?

Bigger.

DONG!

DONG!

DONG!

Alan says goodbye to Phillip when Chris Bernau leaves the show in 1984.

Soaps are all about women, sisters, rivals...so rare to see two guys do a scene like this.

Alan loved Philip more than he loved Alan-Michael. Poor Alan-Michael, he could never measure up.

R152 Chris Bernau actually says to Grant "Hold me!"

Kind of an interesting choice of words....

R154, no matter how great an actor is if I know he's gay and he's playing intimacy with another man/character -- his brother, father, son -- I always wonder if there's an attraction.

I'm sure it's why most actors want to stay closeted or at least keep their private life private.

R153, after Phillip took over the company he had a great scene with A-M where A-M boasted he was Alan's 'real' son and Phillip simply stated: "I'm more his son than you'll ever be."

工 D◯ ﾚo√乇 ㄚ◯∪ h◯乇s!

This is why I loved India and Phillip.

Just put two great actors in a room with conflict. That's all you need.

r136, Ed certainly had a type, or two to be exact. They were either too good for him (his first wife Leslie, whom he would beat in alcoholic rages, or Maureen, whom he cheated on not one but THREE times and eventually drove to her death) or they would cause him nothing but heartache (Holly, Rita and bad girl Vanessa). Ed was a self-destructive mess when you came right down to it.

As for a comparison between Holly and Rita: Holly was a wannabe daddy's girl whose rich daddy never loved her and who never knew what she wanted - or wanted what she couldn't have; Rita was a "damaged good girl" from the wrong side of the tracks who grew up wanting what she never had - and made alot of mistakes along the way. For both of them, good son Ed Bauer was the perfect ideal of model husband and society-family man who would give them the security and respect they craved. Unfortunately, for both of them, bad boy Roger Thorpe represented their baser instincts.

Roger and Rita were involved years before she came to Springfield and she was forever trying to escape that part of her life but he would always come back to haunt her when she was trying to make good. And whenever Holly was going good, Roger would be there to draw her into temptation against her better judgement. Rita never loved Roger like Holly did, though. She was much more wiser in the sketchy ways of the world than Holly, who would end up paying dearly many times for loving Roger.

The brilliant writing and insightful characterization of the Dobsons helped to create two very distinct yet similar women whose lives would mirror one another in their own unique ways. The Dobsons didn't write a stereotypical whore or virgin, slut or villainess or one-note heroine. These were characters with their own personal motivations driving them. Credit must also go to Maureen Garrett and Lenore Kadorf for helping to bring to life two fascinating women who were neither good not bad, but much more complex and richer than that.

Interesting points, R159. I think that covers some sides of Ed that weren't as visible in later times.

He really was, often, his own worse enemy.

I've forgotten until now that Grant was also on Capitol. (I remembered him being on AMC.)

His character on Capitol was forever and always in a hot tub/speedo.

r359 Thanks for that analysis of Ed. Very insightful. Had never viewed him that way. Of course by the time I started watching GL, he was dating Maureen. Thus, I never saw Ed with Rita or Holly or Leslie.

But please help me. You said Ed cheated on Maureen with three women. Claire and Lillian are two of them. But who is the third? I'm drawing a blank.

Fucking Holly, R162.

In fairness to Ed, he only turned to Claire for grief sex after they believed Fletcher and Maureen were dead.

(Too bad GL never explored Fletcher being Michelle's dad -- after all, he had a baby with Holly long after he had the vasectomy. But then again I think there was a blood type incompatability with Claire and Fletcher so he was ruled out. I digress.)

Yes, Ed cheated on Maureen with Holly, but this was after Maureen had fallen for Fletcher.

And Ed sleeping with Lillian was the definition of a pity fuck. She thought she was going to die and he threw her a bone.

I wasn't against Maureen dying the way she did. It remains the most horrific and shocking death in soaps I think (not counting Frankie Frame.)

But GL really dropped the ball by not brining Claire or Rita back into Ed's life around that time.

Also, Hope was an ideal candidate to come back to the Bauers, live in the house to help care for Michelle and be the new matriarch.

But killing Maureen wasn't really about telling a great story; it was about clearing some space so that Justin Deas could join the cast, at least that's what I've always heard.

We lost Maureen and got Buzz Cooper, who chewed all the scenery it took to make Means 'n Wheels diner and Company.

Ed used to beat the fuck out of Leslie. She would walk around in dark glasses, "Oh I ran into a door". Leslie was so weak. So while one brother was beating her, she started fucking the other brother. Mike was always the hero and Ed the hot headed fuck up.

I remember when they recast with Marty. He was cute in his younger days, but they got rid of him because he got fat.

r163 Did Ed fuck Holly while he was married to Maureen?

I know Maureen was always irritated by her presence and her neediness, and Ed's willingness to be her rescuer. But I don't recall Ed having an affair, or a one-night stand, with Holly while married to Maureen.

Yeah, Ed cheated on Maureen with Holly; it was one time and eventually, Ed and Maureen had a vow renewal.

I think whenever a character is recast they have another wedding so there can be wedding pix of the new person.

I remember reading in Soap Opera Digest Peter Simon being asked a question, who would you like to see Ed have an affair with (this was spring '88 I think) and he quipped: "Anyone!"

Getting back to Phillip/Grant, btw, I love how Phillip knew how to throw his charm around -- when he was on the outs with Beth he romanced Gina (the Gallahad) and Tanya (Beth's pal).

Romance isn't really the word, he kind of played with their affections b/c he was so hurt over losing Beth.

In real life, though, Grant seems kind of shy and reserved and he's been wed to his college sweetheart forever.

R162, in the cabin, just before Maureen died, Ed told her the thing with Lillian was a one-time abberation and Maureen said like the thing with Holly was one-time?

Soooo raw. Glad Parker got an Emmy for it, though I heard she was hell on wheels, often ordering people out of the actors' green room who didn't belong there.

I also heard that she wasn't well liked on the set.

That said, I don't care. I mean there's no reason to be nasty and producers could talk to her about it and cast members don't have to invite her to their parties if she doesn't change.

But they're not paid for us to like them. They're paid to act.

And Parker did a great job as Maureen.

I do think that, in time, had Maureen lived she and Ed would have reunited.

All it would have taken was for Michelle to have gotten sick and Ed operated on her and bada-bing bada-boom, it's everyone over for the Bauer's on the 4th of July.

Well, not everyone. Lillian.

R165

You are seriously blowing my mind!!

Kind and beloved Dr. Ed Bauer was an abuser of women?

I can't even wrap my head around that.

Even if it was before my time (the Peter Simon era)I just can not believe it.

EW.com had an obit today for a Broadway and soap actress.

Her name was Betsy Von Furstenburg.

It said she was an actress on AW and GL and ATWT.

Does anyone remember her or who she played?

It also said her father was a Baron. I wonder if she was related to Dianne's first husband

r174 Betsy Von Furstenburg subbed as Lisa on ATWT for a few months in 1983-84 during a contract dispute with Eileen Fulton.

IMDB says she played the Duchess of Essex on AW in 1980, but I have no recollection of her.

Also have no recollection of her on GL and IMDB does not have a listing for that role.

However IMDB does list Betsy playing Niele Neeves during the final year of Secret Storm, 1973-74.

Ellen Parker was exquisite and very instinctive in portraying Maureen in those scenes. She was very relatable in making the character undramatic yet interesting. There are plenty of actors who cannot balance that.

I think [italic]Guiding Light[/italic] got rid of her, and killed off the character, because it had no real understanding how valuable the character was. (Killing off Maureen was [italic]Guiding Light[/italic]'s ignorant mistake.) And the drama had from that was only good for much of the duration of 1993. So, it was foolish. (And, I have come across info that Parker's dismissal was really a financial move to help the series make way for hiring Justin Deas who, as Buzz, started appearing the month after the Maureen Bauer character was killed off on Jan. 11, 1993.)

As for the actress supposedly being a pain in the ass…well she was there for six/seven years. So, she must not have been too much of a pain in the ass for it to have taken six/seven years for her firing. I think that assertion comes from people who, needlessly, are trying to convince viewers that we should let [italic]Guiding Light[/italic] off the hook. That is actually strange. The CBS soap was canceled six years ago. That final airdate, for both Ellen Parker and Maureen Bauer, was 22 years ago. And the topic is, apparently, still unforgettable and very meaningful.

I don't think Ellen Parker was any of the things listed above. She was LOVED on set for her professionalism. They asked her back (after Mo's death) as often as possible.

But the thing was, the network never liked Parker's portrayal of Maureen, nor did the suits at the time who ran P&G. She was cast for her likeness to Ellen Dolan, but while a handsome enough woman, she was not as photogenic as Dolan.

I remember reading a Digest interview (circa 1992, but before her character's death was known) where she said that she saw Dolan on the street, and Dolan told her that they'd asked her back to play Maureen.

Parker had fan support but that was it. They never knew what to do with Ed and Mo. And she would have likely been cut a few years later, anyway, when they started putting older actors on recurring.

Yeah, Ed was the bad kid, always butting heads with his parents. Ross Gentry (also known for AMC) played Ed through a lot of this.

Focus groups were key to the killing off of Maureen -- they told JFP that viewers wouldn't care about it, so the show was unprepared for the backlash.

That too, R179 - that's a well known part of the story.

But the lack of support started earlier. You don't ask focus groups a question unless you want a certain answer.

I need Grant in me quite deeply.

Yes, Ed was a very complex character in the early years of GL. The Bauers, in fact, were not your typical soapy core family like the other shows. The family was ripe with deeply emotional issues.

Before she grew into the wise and loving matriarch, Bert started out as a selfish and status-seeking housewife whose nagging and demands on weaker husband Bill Bauer chipped away at his insecurities, exacerbating his alcohol problem and driving him to extramarital affairs.

Their eldest son Mike was always the more level-headed one, trying to make peace and find balance in the family, while youngest son Ed was more hotheaded. His complete hatred for his weak-willed father fueled much of the drama for the family for years. He even at one point caused his father to have a heart attack after a confrontation between them became violent.

It was poetic irony that he would end up more like Bill than anyone. Like Bill, he was an alcoholic, and that led to alot of anger in Ed, who ended up taking it out physically on his wife Leslie (Rick's mother), who was actually in love with her brother-in-law Mike. A Cain and Abel-type rivalry erupted between the brothers for a long time.

A clip of Robert Gentry's Ed and his first wife Leslie discussing their fathers:

Say what you want about JFP, she not only oversaw what has come to be considered a golden age of creative brilliance for the show, but she also revitalized the masculine element of the show by dusting off the long-ignored vets and spearheading their renaissance, in particular Peter Simon and Jerry ver Dorn, who had both lanquished on the backburner for decades under other executive producers. Both men were over 40 and proved themselves beyond anyone's expectations with the stories they had during JFP's reign. And both showed men over 40 could be SEXY.

It was also the first and only time I ever really liked Jay Hammer, who worked well with KInkead, Garrett and Dusay during those years. Who can forget when Holly took Fletcher right then and there on a desk at the Journal late at night?

"Peter Simon and Jerry ver Dorn, who had both languished on the backburner for decades under other executive producers"

Ummm...decades?

Around 17:45, Maeve Kinkead speaks at a theatre conference. She reminds me of an English prof I had during my Masters.

If I could create a brand new soap today, I would have Kinkead play my Bert Baueresque matriarch.

A little over a decade ... ok?

R185 I think you posted the wrong clip.

I believe this is the one you meant.

OMG, this clip from Days!

Maeve looks fantastic and the pun with David Forsyth is clever.

The character of Ed Bauer was an asshole. And he was a double-standard asshole. He fucked three women, behind Maureen's back, and produced a child outside their marriage, and then asked Maureen to please consider Michelle (his biological daughter with another woman, with whom he had cheated while married to Maureen) for the possible impact of Maureen leaving.

[italic]Guiding Light[/italic] made an irreversible mistake in killing the character of Maureen Bauer in 1993.

I noted it.

I'm not saying that firing actress Ellen Parker was wrong so much as was the choice of killing off the character.

The Ghost[s] Return[s] nonsense was cheap shit nearly all the daytime soaps were willing to do because, in hindsight, they were mistaken for their killing[s] off such characters. And they're always a farcical joke: A character remembers his/her dead loved one[s]; suffers a near-fatal incident; briefly visits Heaven; converses with dead loved one[s]; get inspiration to go on and continue to live. What we viewers were never supposed to notice was that the actors playing those deceased loved ones [italic]aged[/italic].

Agreed, R189, though the whole aging thing is one of those soap quirks most of us were willing to bear.

la

The thing is, not only is it long and thick, but it's pretty too. Very smooth, not one of those misshapen deals.

Yes, it is. Unbelievably big even in its relaxed state.

Grant, which Alan, Amanda, Alexandra and Alan-Michael were your favorites?

R139, I suspected Pam was back when Josh and Reva were in the garden set (Vanessa's?) where she did the whole 'jumping into the fountain/I'm the slut of springfield' scene.

I just remember saying to myself, "Gee, this is something Pam would have written."

I think often old writers can still have their names on the credits even though we're seeing the work of 'new' writers.

not Grant, but mine were:

Bernau, Kathleen Cullen, McKinsey and even though Hearst is an amazing actor I gotta go with Carl Evans only b/c he played a great teen/younger A-M.

Hearst knocked it out of the park as a young man.

Was I the only one who wanted Alan-Michael to fuck Gilly?

R183, I don't think verDorn and Simon exactly suffered under Marland and Pam Long.

Even if what you say about the men under JFP is true, the women certainly did not do well.

Under Phelps, GL lost K. Simms, McKinsey and Sherry Stringfield -- and Parker. (Yes, Sherry wanted to leave, but I bet Simms and McKinsey could have been convinced to stay -- or return.)

And when you know you've lost the first three, do you really want to throw another vet like Parker out?

Plus, when General Hospital lured Luke and Laura back in 1993 the SMART thing would have been for GL to invite Zimmer back to counter GH's move in the ratings.

Instead, we got Tangerine Hill, a character that went nowhere and sucked up valuable air time and resources.

I give props to a producer like Joe Wilmore. in 1986, he brought Bernau, Simon, Newman and Aleksander back to the show.

But under Phelps all we got were out of work Santa Barbara actors in the cast in everything from contract to supporting roles.

r195, you are confusing your Long regimes. The famous Slut of Springfield fountain scene was in Long's first run as HW during 84 - it truly defined the identity she styled for the show.

She returned later in late 87 to retool Reva in the equally definitive confessional over Marah's crib episode.

Not only that, r189, but the fact that characters who died because their protrayers did in real-life never make a ghostly drop-in make the whole ghost-card even more irritating. Maureen, Jenna, Nadine and Sarah made post-mortem visits to their offspring, but Bert, Henry and HB never could. Over at Y&R, John still drops in every now and then even though he died years ago, but we'll never see Katherine.

Absolutely HATE the ghost cameos. It only worked once with Holland Taylor's guest return to EDGE of NIGHT years ago after her nefarious Denise Cavanaugh was killed off, only because it worked so well into her widower Miles' drug-induced hallucinations. It made sense he would be haunted by her.

Ed liked drama. If Maureen had been a little more of a diva, betrayed him with another man, lied to him, or kept secrets from him, he would never have looked elsewhere outside their marriage. Maureen offered genuine unconditional love, honesty and security, and deep down that terrified him.

Funny.

Ed Bauer should have been a Mormon. He was not meant to have just one life. I could see him living in a harem with Mo, Holly, Lillian, Eve and Claire.

Actually, there's a whole list of interviews here. Very interesting.

The show tanked under JFP when Beverlee left. Alexandra was driving the show. When Beverlee quit, the show went into a downward spiral.

The hottest guy in that era was the actor who played Daniel St. John. Walking fuck-stick!

They never gave Michael O'Leary THAT story that would help propel Rick into genuine leading man material. Like Ed's relationship with his own father, there should have been a re-examination of this father-son relationship. What does the affect of having a man like Ed as a father have on a son? The parade of endless stepmommies and romantic indiscretions, the years of being shipped off to boarding school while Ed lived his emotional rollercoster life, dealing with endless bouts of Ed's self-destructive behavior, and most notably, the sordid details of Ed's behavior towards his own mother Leslie. Like Luke and Laura on GH, the taboo should have been finally dealt with - Ed was a physically abusive husband.

They missed their opportunity after Maureen's death, in which Rick should have returned and after discovering the details of Ed's indiscretion with Lillian, start to realize the damage Ed has indirectly caused the family over the years. No more being the passive good son, Rick should have finally called his father out on all the damage he had done to the Bauer family unit. Loads of material there to use for great family drama.

I am convinced much of Rick's attraction to Phillip was the fact essentailly self-absorbed and conflicted Phillip was very much like Ed.

And also, Phillip paid.

[quote]I am convinced much of Rick's attraction to Phillip was the fact essentailly self-absorbed and conflicted Phillip was very much like Ed.

Or maybe it was just the gigantic dong.

The psychology of Ed Bauer was that he was getting even with his mother for allowing his father to treat her like shit and getting even with his father for treating his mother like shit. He had a nice girl like Leslie, he would beat her up and force her to fuck him while she was pining away over Mike. He was really beating up his mother. When he got the wife abuse thing out of his system, he started going after women who needed saving but in turn would give him nothing but heartache. Women like Rita and Holly would get into some kind of trouble or go and fuck Roger and Ed would take them back to protect them because he was saving his Mother from his father. When he finally got a good woman, he reverted back to his base instincts of looking for women in danger who were nothing but trouble but who could fuck his brains out. That's the story of Ed Bauer a constant rejection of Bill and Bert Bauer played out in one man's romantic life.

The problem with the Ed character is that they found an actor who could play the character in an exciting, dynamic and provocative way. Gentry was too angry and Marty and Peter Simon were kind of sad sacks. Ed didn't pop off the screen like Zaslow's Roger or Bernau's Alan. They needed an actor who could play all those conflicting emotions and they never found one.

Just in fairness to Ed here, he 'cheated' on Maureen with Claire after they both thought Fletcher and Maureen had been killed.

He turned to Holly when he and Maureen were on the outs (she had fallen in love with Fletcher).

And Lillian was a pity fuck because she was dying.

I do like the character development suggested by R206. I never thought O'Leary could handle heavy drama though. He was always throwing in stuff for laughs. Overkill.

Post-Maureen, GL dropped the ball by not bringing back Rita or Claire or Hope to fill in various voids left by Maureen.

It was awful we didn't see Rick or Chelsea or Bea (!) at the funeral.

That said, the dialogue in those episodes was brilliant. It remains among the most powerful stuff I've ever seen.

R199, sorry I re-read what I wrote and I could see where there's confusion.

I definitely recall the slut of Springfield fountain scene in '84...I hung in there with the show throughout '86 and early '87 through post-Long regimes. (It was tough!)

But I remember sometime in the summer of 1987, the show started to get better again. This was in the days before every little move was reported immediately by the soap press and twitter.

There was a scene that summer -- and I'm not sure whether it was before or after Reva's infamous 'hungry monologue' -- in which Josh and Reva ran into each other at Vanessa's garden (or wherever that party was held back in '84) and they hashed out their relationship.

I saw it and I thought, wow, if I didn't know better I'd think Pam Long was back.

Sometimes writers' stuff starts hitting the air before their names pop up and their names remain on the credits after they're gone.

The Long era was a Golden Age for GL.

I have had heated debates with people who call it 'the Reva show' under Long. Was she a favorite? Of course. But so was Phillip.

And any scene with McKinsey and Bernau was gold.

Beth and Lujack. Mindy's antics. Roxie Shayne! Fletcher and Claire in Barbados! It was a fun-filled ride that I wish had lasted forever.

I don't agree. The sweet spot for me was Curlee, Reilly and Demorest. That was when GL was on fucking fire. You could not miss and episode.

Long's stuff was just repurposed material from Texas and she allowed Reva and the Oklahoma crew to eat the show.

I loved the Phillip Spaulding story that Long crafted upon her return in 87, revisiting his conflict with Alan and having things come full circle by turning the family against him. It eventually led to the Neil Everest-Gary Swanson story in which he faked his death. It was great saga-writing.

The Sonni story started out well with amazing find Michelle Forbes, whom Long seemed more obsessed with than she ever was with Zimmer. The writers strike really hindered the progress of this story which kind of fell into a convoluted mess.

And I am indebted to Long for bringing Roger, Holly and Chrissy back to the mix. Kudos to her for doing that.

The only thing I really hated during her return as HW was the way she wrote Alan. I just never bought his obsession with Reva to the point he was willing to sacrfice his empire. I thought that was so plot-dictated.

Those who still resent Ed for cheating on Maureen may get a kick out of this episode from 1979 when Ed is told by his wife Rita that she had an affair with another man during their marriage.

It precedes Ed and Maureen's emotional confrontation in the cabin many years later, where Ed is the one who has been betrayed by a self-destructive spouse. It is great domestic drama that soaps just lost the ability to do a long time ago.

Lenore Kasdorf was just sublime, so subtle and understated. I am glued to the screen when she is on it.

Btw, have patience with this episode - it repeats the prologue once, and for some reason includes both the American and the German opening, but the episode is in its entirety. Seriously worth watching.

Bonus: we see Katie Parker doing her insane puppet act.

PS: I am also in love with the character of Diane Ballard, who in this episode realizes Alan has once again chosen another woman (Hope) over her.

r210, I always rejected that "in fairness" excuse for Ed's grief-fuck with Claire. What man is so devastated by his wife's violent death that he sleeps with her best friend - HOURS after the woman's death? An inherently immature and self-absorbed one. Nothing fair in that situation at all. And the fact that he repeats the behavior two more times reveals Ed as a fuck-up.

r209, Gentry appeared to play the hothead and spoiled Ed well, and then they wanted him to be more of a middle-class husband type - a safer type - so Mart Hulswit looked the part. He was actually quite sexy in a cute befuddled suburban way. He did start to pack on the pounds near the end, and Peter Simon was a bizarre choice for me at the time. He was younger, but not exactly dynamic or anything noteworthy - not even goodlooking. It took me a long time to actually like him in the role.

I think I am one of the few GL fans who actually liked Richard Van Vleet in the role. There was something sexy about his Ed - he looked like he would be a good fuck. And he played drunk well.

It wasn't until the JFP years that I came to adore Simon, whose performances as an adulterer and a fuck-up were at times brilliant stage work. He came to be the definitive Ed from then on, although they briefly attemtped to fill his shoes with the original Ed again by bringing Robert Gentry back to the role. He was a nice nod to history, but had revealed himself to have grown into a stiff and ineffective actor.

In the end, if I had to pick between the Eds, I would have to go with Simon.

Oh ok r211, yes I see the misunderstanding. Btw, I think what you may be thinking of is previewed in this GL promo from Nov 1987:

Speaking of Diane Ballard, at about mark 33:48, there is a great scene where Diane opens up to her friend Ann Jeffers about her relationship to her father, hinting why Diane developed such an obsession for Alan through the years.

Maureen Mooney, who plays Ann, is particularly creepy in this scene.

Fascinated by this substory of two women who suffered from long unrequited love for their bosses - Ann would pine in the background for years for Mike Bauer and found a kindred spirit in Diane. Something very 70s about this - they were contemporary "odd women" whose work was their only life, secretly pining for their unattainable bosses.

It's weird, looking at the clip from r185, that Maeve never has done anything else, for someone who seems so intelligent and into acting as a profession. What's her story?

At 22:42, Bert and Roger have a tense run-in.

This scene is followed by a wonderfully written scene between his father Adam and Sara McIntrye over Adam finally cracking under the pressure of having to defend his son against his detractors. Robert Milli does a wonderful job. The writers really played out Adam's torment over having Roger for a son.

this pre-Marland GL stuff is fascinating.

GL had such a great eras -- Dobsons, Marland, Long, Reilly/Demorest/Curlee.

I couldn't stand the San Cristobel/Cassie/Prince Richard years.

I did enjoy some of the Taggert stuff or whoever was writing Phillip/Olivia/Alan.

And the end with Jill Lorie Hurst was solid. We were seeing faves again and Phillip was back.

I used to think Marland's era was my favorite, but watching all the 79 episodes on YT I have to say the Dobsons were geniuses. Their show was brilliant, and the stories they created sustained the shows for the next couple of decades.

I love Marland's early stuff, but I wonder if Harding Lemay had more of an influence on the scripts than anyone realizes because the latter Marland stuff is less drawing room drama and more sensational soapiness with the OTT Quint-Nola Indiana Jones adventures, the Carrie Todd story and the Jennifer-Mark-Amanda triangle.

Long redefined the show for the rest of the 80s.

Loved Curlee and Demorest and those years under JFP, and then the show suffered one writing team after the other until the end (with the brief respite with Taggert and Culliton, both of whom seemed quite capable of picking the show up from the likes of a Marland or a Long).

I do regret we never saw Long write for the show again.

All in all, the Dobsons are my favorite era.

Do any of you remember Simon Spaulding? I wasn't watching much then and pretty much missed his whole tenure.

Simon wasn't technically a Spaulding. Or was he? I forget.

He was mostly in that inbetween time between Pam Long #1 and Pam Long #2.

And he was played by the same guy who was Corny Collins in the original Hairspray.

R205, yes there was a gaping hole when Bev left, but don't forget, they lost Kimberley Simms in June, and Sherry Stringfield in July. Bev was just the final nail in the coffin.

No, r223, Simon was not a Spaulding. He initially claimed he was to get close to Alex, but he turned out to be Eric Luvonocheck's (sp?) son with another woman. He was Lujack's half brother, but Alex was not his mother.

Canadian comedian Shawn Thompson played magician Simon Hall, who claimed he was Brandon Spaulding's illigetimate son. But he was, in fact, the son of Eric Luvonachek, Lujack's father. Although they started off on the wrong foot, he and Alexandra became extremely close and she thought of him as her own son. He left town after Alan returned from the dead and was never heard from again.

Bev had some great scenes throughout the story.

The entire Simon storyline from beginning to end is up on YT.

If you want an example of what an asshole Joshua Lewis was, look no further than this scene. I was cheering for Annie.

The name William reappeared frequently through the years.

There was Bill Bauer.

Up until his return from medical school, Ed was actually referred to as Billy (as in Bill Jr.). He chose his middle name Edward to distance himself from the father he hated.

Then there was Peggy Thorpe's little son, Billy Fletcher, who became Roger's stepson and who adored Roger. Billy was never referred to again after Peggy left town.

Then Billy Lewis came to town and sired a son Little Billy, who promptly became Bill as a young adult.

And Richard and Edmund Winslow had a third brother named William.

R226

Shawn Thompson married Rebecca Staub who played Josie on GL.

They later divorced and she appeared on Port Charles.

She's been the longterm girlfriend (10 years) of GH's William deVry.

Thompson moved back to Canada after the divorce.

[quote] Rebecca Staub who played Josie on GL.

Jessie Matthews (not Josie) is who she played.

Jessie was Beth's cousin, and her mother Calla was Lillian's sister. Two characters never heard from again after they left town.

Calla was played by Lisby Larson.

And I agree with r221. To me that period of TGL even outdoes my overall favorite soap writer Harding Lemay.

I can't imagine a soap being more character driven, more cerebral. It felt like most scenes were close-ups.

It's too bad the Dobsons didn't have more (ratings) success with Santa Barbara.

My problem with that show was that it was too big, too many characters, too many bad actors (yes, it had great ones, too), and too many C.C. Capwells and too many Kelly Capwells.

I preferred Linda Gibboney (sp?) to Mattson.

The show never found itself.

I only liked the last year (which I know no one does) when Pam Long wrote it.

Santa Barbara is the only soap I never followed.

Whatever happened to the Dobsons?

I believe Calla was mentioned a couple of times by Lillian through the years. I think she was mentioned by Lillian during the breast cancer story. She called her on the phone or something (or am I imagining that?).

But, yes, after Simon and Jessie left they were never metioned again. I remember a particular scene after Simon said goodbye to Alex and left Springfield, she was seen reminisicing through a montage of their relationship, and then closed a music box that was playing, a symbolic gesture that that chapter was closed and she was moving on with her life. It literally ended Simon's very existance on the show.

I actually liked the Matthews family. It was an era of soaps when the lower-class were still a part of the social fabric. And it was a story about class structure - an Upstairs/Downstairs type story. Larson was perfect as the social climbing wannabe with an embarrassing secret (her ex-husband gave her gonorrhea). She worked well with McKinsey, ver Dorn and Sloan. But near the end, the writers had no idea what they wanted from Calla, Jessie or Simon. It was an interesting chapter of the show though, before Willmore came back to take it back to its roots.

Interesting trivia: Mary Kay Adams was originally hired to play Beth's social-climbing cousin India. They changed her character at the last minute to play Alex's stepdaughter.

The Dobsons, last I heard, were living happily in Atlanta off all the Santa Barbara money -- they made a lot off that show.

They came to the Writers Guild Awards a while back and presented. They looked well-rested and fantastic.

Ironically, they created Phillip who was written by almost every regime until the show's end.

I thought his return in 96 was handled so poorly. The whole Neil Everest story was re-written/amended so that Alan was in on it with him. And poor Grant - he'd only worked with Rick Hearst briefly (who soon left after Grant's return) but there was also a new Alan, Alex and Amanda.

The story they missed was bringing Phillip and Beth back together (they broke up off camera due, in part, to Alan -- shock!) and have them meet Nick. Beth could have fallen in love with Nick, eventually realizing he wasn't Lujack so she wanted Phillip back only he would have moved on to someone else before they later find their way back together.

On one of those 79 episodes, a character described Rita as "restless", as in she would never be able to settle down even though she wanted to. She was just propelled to always move and create trouble for herself.

Holly, on the other hand, was never restless. She wasn't her own worst enemy. She just made some bad choices because she never clearly knew what she wanted.

I'm currently watching Rita going antsy being forced to play suburban housewife in a gorgeous SPanish-style villa that became the Bauers homstead for so many years. She has been forced to give up her job at Cedars and take care of Christina while Holly is in prison, and resents the hell out of the whole situation. She does not want to take care of Holly's daughter.

Meanwhile, Holly is telling her cellmate (played by Anna Maria Hosford of AMEN fame) that when it comes down to it, she doesn't like Rita and doesn't like her taking care of her daughter.

I find all of this the most involving, engaging, engrossing stuff I have watched in years.

Whatever happened to Holly's slavishly devoted boyfriend Peter Chapman? He was cute and so sooo in love with her. He even got a job at the prison so they can be together, snogging in the infirmary.

Oh, and Rita Lloyd is awesome in the role of the demented Lucille Wexler. She reminds me of the older Joan Crawford in those campy B-horror movies. But she takes it all so seriously that the material never truly descends into the kind of camp soaps eventually became.

Frank Runyeon, who played Steve on ATWT, is on Y&R soon.

He still looks kinda good.

Why was Jennifer Richards so desperate to keep Amanda from learning that she was her mother?

Illigetimatcy was still a taboo back then. It was an embarrassment and a shame to have a child out of wedlock. Watching those scenes on YT of Jennifer's big moment on the stand, I was slightly amused by Morgan's reaction. She yelled out in horror and ran from the courtroom; Amanda, too, tried to flee in horror and ended up miscarrying. Today, we are much less naive of such things. I actually found the innocence displayed in these episodes quite charming if not ridiculous.

Plus, Jennifer was trying to protect Amanda from knowing the truth after Lucille died because Amanda was pregnant and she didn't want to jeapordize her condition.

Loony Lucille lanquishing away the afternoon tearing the wings off dead flies:

Rita goes on and on and on and on about her problems while Bert blithley offers coffee:

Roger gets raped (not exactly politically correct, but this was the 70s):

I think that's Anna Maria whatserface from Amen at the very end of part 5.

I do love Bert's line to Rita. "You're a slut. Hang it up, honey!"

Wasn't Bruce Dern Lillian's husband and Beth's father? Isn't that why they originally hooked Philip up with Beth.? To be her knight in shining armor?

No, it was James Rebhorn who played Bradley.

They played with the idea of Beth having a knight in shining armor. Beth was pretty independent, artistic and very smart. Everyone thought she was pretty. She got a job at the Boardinghouse, stood up to Bradley (which in turn angered him and he raped her) but it is something Lilian never did up until that point. She dumped Phillip when he cheated on her. She went for a gang member in Lujack, helped him bust out of prison and stood up the the Galahads. She stood up to Alan. She stood up to Roger. Some fans think of Beth as weak but I don't see it. Just the opposite. Which makes it a shame the writers did major character assassination on her to the point even Vincent I said something on a soap panel about how GL was writing Beth and how they were ruining the character.

Paul Roach oversaw the complete destruction of the character of Beth as well as the other ladies of Springfield. By the time he FINALLY left, the damage was irreparable. Future writers had Beth suffer a split personality (the Godawful Lorelei shit) and eventually marry Alan!

Looking back, I feel quite comfortable saying GL was over for me during the 60th anniversary celebrations in which Mike Bauer and Harley Cooper came back for a visit, Sarah Shayne died, and the citizens of Springfield banded together - friends and enemies - to get the lighthouse back in working order. That would have been a fitting end to the show.

After that, it truly became a different show completely devoid of the heart and soul that made it what it was for almost a decade and a half for me. I didn't need to see the rich and valuable history rewritten and the tragic character assassinations. I didn't need to see lilywhite mobsters and royal fruitcakes shit on legacy and piss their superficiality all over the landscape I once called a second home. I didn't need to see TV's longest running show literally pushed out of the studio and into the street and forcing its actors to become street buskers.

GL died a long time before it was officially cancelled.

So it was Paul R who was the culprit behind the destruction of Beth? It was very shocking the extent to which they rewrote her. Someone with that history on the show. The Four musketeers story is iconic. Beth was a pretty beloved character and was involved with two huge supercouples. I really thought they would explain her personality change, give her motivation and eventually repair the damage. But it got worse and worse and worse to the point they humiliated the character when all the female characters pretty much made fun of her at Blake's house (some party, can't remember what for). Does anyone remember that? I remember thinking, damn, all of you are not perfect in any way yet they thoroughly trashed Beth. Beth was a rape survivor so I am surprised they wrote her the way they ended up writing her during the late 90's/to mid 00's. It wasn't until the very end some semblance of the original Beth showed up.

I agree, the show became clones, time travel (the ABSOLUTE WORST IDEA EVER), San ChristoHELL, and GH lite mobsters. Awful and shocking that a sophisticated and glamorous show like GL devolved into that.

It was always rumoured that Rauch and Chamberlain had a thing going - was it true? He had a notorious history for fucking his actresses.

Zimmer proclaimed him her favorite executive producer and Grant Aleksander became a close personal friend.

Someone I knew who worked for one of the fan clubs said there was no hanky panky between Beth C and Paul. She adored him because he gave her some meaty material. Never mind it was the destruction of the character she played. She loved the work.

When Beth originally became bitchy in her mid-90s return I was OK with it. I could buy life hardening Beth a bit.

But the Lorelai thing was bizarre, and she simply would have never, ever, ever been with Alan, let alone marry him and bear him a child.

I can't imagine that ol' reptile not trying to get into Beth's blonde chomps.

R252 Yes, I could buy Beth with a bit of an edge but she came back a complete mess and they never did a good job explaining it or repairing it quickly enough.

Her being with Alan is perhaps the worst thing they did in the last 9 years of the show. It shit on so much history. For Beth to marry and have a child with ALAN is just...ugh...I can't. I could see why Alan would become attracted to her (everyone was in love with Beth at some point) but SHE would NEVER. lol

The whole last decade of GL and ATWT was to do anything for short term ratings gain. The more shocking the better.

It never lasted.

They almost brought Lujack back. THAT would have been shocking and interesting. Not clones and time travel. My GOD the person who green lit that should be tarred and feathered!

Interestingly, it was GL breakdown writer Roger Newman who came up with the idea for the clone story. Newman, of course, is best known for playing the role of Holly's brother Ken Norris back in the 70s and briefly in the mid-90s. He and his wife Fran Myers (who played Peggy Thorpe on GL) went on to be part of PASSIONS writing team.

Rauch and that MADD woman greenlit it.

After she strips him of power and belongings, Alexandra and Alan share one last romantic dance before he flees town:

Who played Beth's abusive husband? The one that Lizzie killed for abusing her mother.

He was a real looker. IIRC he was also on another soap too.

Good God, what were they smoking when they made that clip at R243?

The Roger stuff is insane, but the first part is too. Who was that Lanie chick?

Lanie was Justin and Ross' sister.

If I remember what I've been told correctly, the show had talked about bringing Lujack back, and sketched out the story, but just at the point where they had the network and Irizarry on board, Grant Aleksander decided to leave and they married Phillip and Beth off and sent them off screen.

They eventually developed the whole story with the twins, but Nick was initially intended to be paired with Harley, and Mallet with Mindy, with Harley and Mallet working together. That changed once Harley and Mallet took off.

Lainie Marler was introduced as a track star and Olympic hopeful who was paralyzed after a car accident soon after her arrival in Springfield. She was first intended to be a new romantic interest for the unhappily married Ed, a story that was dropped for whatever reason.

She briefly dated Floyd Parker, but ended up falling in love with art gallery owner Carter Bowden. She surprised her brothers when she got out of her wheelchair and walked at her wedding to Carter. For a long time, Lainie was just a supporting character, working at Mike Bauer's law office and becoming his confidante and sounding board. She sided with Mike against her brother Ross, who found himself facing off with Bauer during the Jennifer Richards trial.

Marland was beginning to develop an adversarial flirtation between Lainie and Mike's new partner Derek Colby. Then, suddenly, she was written off when she and Carter moved out of town. Marland brought her back for a brief guest spot at the end of his run when she was seen hosting a visiting Jackie Marler, who had fled Springfield because she though Justin and Carrie were having an affair. Lainie counselled Jackie through the crisis and kept in contact with Justin. Jackie agreed to go back home, but died en route in a plane crash.

Ross brought up his MIA sister in the late 80s and mentioned she and Carter divorced and she was now living in Australia. I believe she was mentioned again during the Ben Warren story. I have no idea if they mentioned her during Ross' funeral because I had stopped watching the show by then. The actress was fine enough, but the character just never seemed to catch on.

Vincent Irizarry liked to nurse on this monster after hours, when everyone else had left the set. But don't tell anyone.

What does that mean

I wish I could nurse on that monster.

R265, it means he has a big penis.

Would I kick him out of bed? Probably not.

But he seems like a guy who'd be a good buddy, too.

The idea behind Beth marrying Alan was actually interesting and like so many of Kreizman's stories, good on paper but no follow through. When she married him he was in the nuthouse for "killing," Phillip, and she had to hold on to her power at Spaulding to protect her kids (she like myself, must not have liked that pursed lipped Gus who they were going to vote for Spaulding chair...) It was not a love match as Alan wanted to smoke Phillip out and thought that marrying Beth would work. That would have been a good start if they kept it up and Alan manipulated Beth from behind the scenes to bring out a darker side of her. They could have had the Rick Beth affair and then Phillip comes back to find Beth knocked up by his best friend and married to his father. But Kreizman screwed it up by having Harley voted in a CEO and then Beth feel in love with Alan and was getting it on with him....EWWW.

I think Kreizman did the Roger Thorpe death story, which was good. He did Jonathan's introduction, which was good.

But the rest of his stuff was pretty bad.

Can't believe he landed gigs at ATWT and AMC after that.

Jonathon was actually a Curlee story...he was going to be Reva's stalker...but they dropped it and made that guy with the bug eyes talking to his puppet, Sandy Jonathon...(pre Kreizman) The Roger's son story had potential once again, the best material were those scenes written by another writer Kreizman was co writing with...when Alan and Phillip and Holly and Blake found out Roger was dead. After that it fell apart. I think he could have been good with an older traditional co headwriter..he was better writing scense then stories.

I was at an industry party a long time ago and someone from GL said they were bringing Dylan back.

I said: "Oh, Morgan. Good."

They looked at me blankly and then I found out they were hiring that guy from Port Charles..Brian somebody?

Oy.

The first year of Kreizman wasn't heinously bad, and he did improve on the shitstorm that was Ellen Weston.

He had some good ideas, but his stories, when they were any good, were always good for about three weeks, and then they petered out.

[quote] Jonathon was actually a Curlee story...he was going to be Reva's stalker...but they dropped it and made that guy with the bug eyes talking to his puppet, Sandy Jonathon..

Uh, no. Curlee was gone long before the whole San Cristobel thing even happened. Esensten and Brown wrote all that.

They did clearly change their minds and made Sandy not be Jonathan. The actor reminded me of Robert Newman (Josh) and I kept thinking Sandy would be revealed as Josh and Sonni's son.

As rich as Alan Spaulding was (Chris Bernau version), I never could understand why he didn't have a more natural looking toupee. There were some scenes where it was a obvious as Sam Donaldson's toupee on ABC News.

At least by the time Ron Raines was playing Alan, the toupee did look natural.

[quote] At least by the time Ron Raines was playing Alan, the toupee did look natural.

Too bad Ron's toupee was more natural than his wooden acting.

R271

Who???

Brian Gaskill, when he was cast as nuDylan, instead of Morgan Englund, who played Dylan for most of the character's existence.

God, my memory's slipping.

I totally blocked out his GL run.

Ron Raines was as terrible a recast as Marj was as Alex. Ruined any possible avenue they could have taken with either character.

Alex would have NEVER let Beth marry Alan for whatever reason. Beth was like a daughter to Alex. And Beth, at least the original Beth, would have NEVER allowed herself to be taken in by Alan or use Alan by marrying him to get control of Spaulding even for her children. That was not the Beth that Long wrote from 83-91. There was a lot they could have done with Beth but they needed to write the motivation behind it. The character was too important to latter day GL to let some idiot rewrite her and ruin the character. I remember my aunt, who stopped watching GL in 94, watching again in the late 90's and being floored by the way they were writing Beth. I am glad Vincent Irizzary spoke out on the destruction of Beth. He was disgusted by the way they ruined the character.

r277 Not much to block out. I don't think he was on more than a couple dozen times over a couple of months. He was trying to be a father to Daisy/Susan. As much as I like Brian Gaskill, he was wrong for the part of Dylan.

It was also during the time when David Kreizman was working hard to kill the show, deliberately writing the most boring stories imaginable.

Marj was never Alexandra. She was playing the part like she was Vanessa on AMC.

[quote] Marj was never Alexandra. She was playing the part like she was Vanessa on AMC.

This conversation has happened on a few threads now.

I think she did great when she initially replaced Beverlee. But yes, something over the top seeped into the later runs.

Millie Taggert and Carolyn Culliton wrote the Reva stalker story, and projected it to be Jonathon as the culprit. Then they were replaced (!) by the atrocious Ellen Weston, who rewrote the ending and made the stalker to be Alexandra (!!).

Kreizman introduced the adult Jonathon.

As much as Pelphrey was an interesting energetic presence, he was seriously miscast as Reva and Richard's son. I just never bought it.

R283

I totally bought Pelphrey as Reva's son. I couldn't buy him as Richard's.

Jonathan was a combo of Reva and his step-father who abused him.

Pelphrey is very talented and is getting a lot of work. He's made several movies, had a run on Broadway, done some episodic work,etc...

He joined the cast of Banshee this year and he's gotten stellar reviews. Really amazing work on that show.

Pelphrey is amazing and one of the best things to happen to GL towards the end. He was the kind of find GL use to be known for. He was perfect as Reva's son and had a very memorable scene on Tammy's death bed ala Reva's fountain.

I never saw much of him. I probably read more about him online. I've seen him called everything from brilliant to Roger Howarth wannabe.

Maybe this has been discussed, but Kristen Vigard, the original Morgan, provided the vocals for Illeana Douglas lip synching in the great 90s movie, Grace of My Heart.

I think as an actress, she's a better singer.

So the guy who played Coop, gay?

Speaking of miscast TV kids, I believed Sydney Penny as A Martinez' daughter, but not Zimmer's!

[quote] So the guy who played Coop, gay?

No, though I wish he was.

I met him and he's even more gorgeous in person. He had biceps the size of a 4x4 pickup truck.

He had some drama with two women when he was on Y&R. He got married to one of them shortly after that and then, of all things, enrolled in the armed services and went overseas.

But I just saw that he's back and attending an event in Florida, so he's safe, which is good to hear.

He is gorgeous in person, great skin.

But even though he's married and in the military that doesn't mean he's not gay.

[quote]Phillip Spaulding's enormous package.No Speedo could rein in the pendulous dong between those legs....

Is there a picture of this aforementioned but never seen package?

"Uh, no. Curlee was gone long before the whole San Cristobel thing even happened. Esensten and Brown wrote all that.

They did clearly change their minds and made Sandy not be Jonathan. The actor reminded me of Robert Newman (Josh) and I kept thinking Sandy would be revealed as Josh and Sonni's son."

Sorry, I meant to say Taggert..she created the storyline of Jonathon being a hellion and recentful of Reva but they made Alex of all people her stalker and then created Sandy.

He reminded you of Newman? I could see him being crazy Soni's kid with those eyes of his popping all the time. When Jonathon first came on and Pelphery had the sexual vibe he would do anything and anyone, Jonathon got up on top of Sandy in the hospital bed and taunted him and I thought ...wow..they are going to go there with those two..but no, Jonathon became a boring soap rebel in love with the bland and boring Tammy and Pelphery just became a screaming scenery chewer.

Wasn't the deal that Sandy knew Jonathan from boarding school?

It would have been interesting if Sandy was so obsessed with Jonathan because he fell in love with him. They certainly had that chemistry.

Well, there was a kind of Talented Mr. Ripley thing going on with Sandy and Jonathon. Sandy usurped his identity for some time. And yes, the homoerotic undertones were there as subtext, but the show failed to pursue it.

And yes, Pelphrey started out as amazing but just became a screeching scene chewer. I blame the writers.

Morgan and Kelly break into a duet to express their love for one another:

An interview with Kristen Vigard looking back on her GL days (she even mentions the duet she performed on the show with Shipp that is shown in the clip above - she reveals she was sick with flu that day and thinks she sounded horrible).

God that was so earnestly Marland! I love how the adults act like its the greatest thing on earth. I keep hoping a time warp would open and Wendy Moniz' Dinah would walk in and roll her eyes and say something nasty to those two!

[quote] And yes, Pelphrey started out as amazing but just became a screeching scene chewer.

Just like his "mama" Kim Zimmer.

I was never a big Tom Pelphrey fan. I recognized Pehlphrey as talented, but he was just too intense, too scarey. Had this Charles Manson type rage/insanity going on behind his eyes that repulsed me.

I especially turned off by the cousin romance with Tammy. Yes, the two had chemistry, but should have undone her parentage if they were going to do that romance rather than have an incest storyline.

Only time I ever liked Pelphrey, or Jonathan, was when paired with Reva. They worked very well together, amazing chemistry. He brought out a bit of the wildness in the boringly domesticated Reva, while she bought out a much needed calmness in Jonathan.

I thought Pelphery brought a much needed earthy sexuality to a "young stud," role on soaps...all those guys on Days and other shows looked so feminine and yes, well groomed...(Jonathon is like some guy you would make take the side entrance out of your place.) Jonathon looked like he knew what to do and didnt worry about mussing his hait. That was definately what made me see him as Reva's kid, though he used his sexuality as a weapon (seducing his cousin to hurt his mother) while she used it to cover her insecurities and to get acceptance. Unfortunatley they dropped that part of it as soon as the poor fat teenage girls at home started mooning over him. I thought his thing with Lizzie would have been good if Alan hired him to seduce her away from the boring Coop...but the miscast Lizzie with Marcy Rylan who is cute, but could not play a damanged daughter of Beth and Phillip.

I think Pelphery got bored after the first six months.

I agree about miscast Rylan. I think she's fantastic, but her Lizzie wasn't Phillip and Beth's daughter -- she was Phillip and Mindy's!

[quote]Vincent Irizarry liked to nurse on this monster after hours, when everyone else had left the set. But don't tell anyone.

That imagery is wonderfully stuck in my head now. Grant's monster would definitely have to be nursed.

Who'd win in a fight: Phillip or Lujack?

Lujack had street smarts, but Phillip had a bit more size (no jokes, please) on his cousin.

R302 You nailed it. Marcy Rylan would have been perfect for a Phillip/Mindy child! LOL

R304 Neither Phillip nor Lujack. Beth! The winner in all of that was Beth. She got to cozy up to their two snakes back to back. Lucky gal! But seriously, Phillip. He is huge!

Ha! Thanks, R305.

I think Phillip would have kicked Lujack's butt in a fight.

Loved the scene in which Alan-Michael let Phillip know that he knew Phil was the father of Meredith's baby.

Phillip was trying to keep Alan from getting his grubby mitts on Alan-Michael's trust fund, but A-M just saw it as interference and he used the leverage he had with the paternity to get Phillip off his back.

I hated how Jonathan was suddenly a hero and everyone was "wrong" for objecting to his romance with Tammy. All he did was scream near the end. He was so over the top with Tammy's death that I did not feel sorry for him when she died.

R301

I don't believe Pelphrey became bored. He was fresh out of college and landed his first real gig.

He has always talked very highly and appreciative of his time on GL and the relationships he made.

If he was bored he wouldn't have agreed to return for 2 short stints once he'd left.

R308

I thought he was amazing in those episodes where Tammy died. That whole storyline was very good. Excellent work by Pelphrey and the others.

That whole week of episodes are on YT. IIRC they're titled A Death in the Family.

Even all these years later I will still sob like a blubbering fool.

When I think of Pelphrey I just think of that laugh.

It's almost a good thing they didn't bring Lujack back when they originally planned to. We had already journeyed through three back-from-the-dead stories (Roger, Beth and Phillip) that the Spauldings experienced one atop the other. To then have Lujack come back from the dead, we would have descended into complete campiness, the very state General Hospital has been currently suffering through under FV/RC.

I liked the Nick McHenry story and the character, although we had to suffer through some OTT implausibilities (Alex not remembering she gave birth to twins, an Italian thinking he was an Irishman), but VI and BM especially made the story work. I especially remember a scene when Nick was looking at a home movie of Lujack up on a screen and he was mesmerized by the eerie likeess he shared with him, Lujack's image projected over Nick's body.

BM leaving during the story hurt, and they didn't seem to know where they wanted to take Nick. His chemistry with Barbara Crampton was niland his subsequent romance with the AIDS woman was out-of-left-field and boring. They missed their opportunity to keep him when Aleksander came back, or at least bring him back when they brought Beth back. We didn't necessarily have to have Lujack back for Beth to truly deal with her feelings for him. I just never bought Phillip and Beth.

Considering the number of hours of show that were produced each week, the unexpected cast departures, the network interference, the sponsor interference, it's a wonder any shows were ever very good for any extended period of time. It must have been brutal work to write a soap opera.

309 I disagree. I think that Pelphery was very happy to have his first job out of school and liked who he was working with etc, but that does not mean he was excited about the material. His first few months were full of non soapy energy, and then, over acting and manic took the place of that energy. I think Zimmer is partially to blame as she said in an interview she told him he needed to develop some "tricks," like she did to act in a soap day in and day out. I think TP developed them in spades with that laugh and gritting his teeth all the time. If he had good material and good direction and if they hadnt burned him out playing every day, he would have been great.

The Tammy death really didnt effect me at all as others said, it became a thing where everyone in SF was wrong..hell if Bert Bauer was alive she would have had to grovel at his feet. It started out that Jonathon was villain but they rewrote it to the dull story it became. Also, as with everything else on GL, it had no repercussions. Alan didnt go to prison, etc.

WHET the young man who played Phillip's son at the very end of GL's run?

He's a bit player on Bold and the Beautiful now.

that kid sure looked like he could be Grant's kid, but he failed to deliver with any acting chops

r316..the whole thing was weird. They aged the character older then his older brother, and hooked him up with a de-aged (and unattractive) daughter of Harley...who was born on the show, what 23 or something years before him! Wheeler was delusional.

Speaking of, what happened to her latest project where she was getting "the band back together," of GL people she worked with and she was dumb enough to promote it from the bad old Peapack park pavillian thing they would film in all the time? Did Peapack put a restraining order on her for making their town look like crap when she filmed?

I heard Ellen blamed herself at the Paley for GL's axing.

Had I been there, I would have said: "Ellen, that's not true! You're leaving out the roles played by the network and the headwriter."

True, the network and the ingrates at P&G were first and foremost to blame for GL and ATWT demise. With full backing from them, both shows would have been fine and they wouldn't have hired Wheeler or the crappy HW's they did.

As far as Lujack, I was happy they brought in his twin first. But they missed a truly huge story in Nick/Beth. The story that could have come out of that was endless with wonderful possibilities. What a missed opportunity! Could have provided years of rich story, history and character driven story. THEN you could have added LUJACK coming back into the picture and really created something incredible. Never understood why someone didn't make it happen.

Jonathan wailing over Tammy's body was more comical than sad. Everyone but Jon and Tammy were vilified for objecting to their romance. A Sandy/Johnny story would've been far more interesting.

YT: Jonathan & Sandy p1 is the title of the scenes with Jon on top of Sandy

This thread died during Primetime.

Grant should have won an Emmy for that story in which Phillip took down Alan at the Spaulding anniversary bash in 1988.

Pam Long will pen NBC's upcoming Dolly Parton biopic.

It's called Coat of Many Colors and will air next season.

R324 Kim Zimmer starring as the Slut of Nashville!

[quote] His chemistry with Barbara Crampton was nil

But that didn't stop Vincent from fucking her. He fucked Kimberley Simms, Barbara and even the bitch that played Mindy for like three months.

He did love his costars.

PHEEEE-lupp!!!

*raspy voice*

Oh, God. It's HER. Damn you, India.

*eyeroll*

r326 Yes! Vince had a long history of getting involved with co-stars. Even though their characters weren't involved, Vince and Kristie Ferrell (Roxie Shayne) were hot and heavy off screen.

As you said, he was involved with all three of the Mindys that he played opposite -- Kimberly Sims, Ann Hamilton and Barbara Crampton.

While he was on Santa Barbara, he was involved with Signy Coleman both on screen and off and she became pregnant with his first child.

If I recall correctly, he and his All My Children co-star Alla Korot were briefly involved as well.

I mean, I'd get on Vince's Italian sausage, too.

But still, that was odd. All the Mindys, especially.

Is it true that VI has gone all holy roller now?

He's been "holy roller" since rollers went holy, R331. Big antiabortionist. Don't know about teh gay.

I had a dream with Wendy Moniz in it last night. She worked for me in a restaurant of some sort. I don't know if she was Dinah Marler or not.

Wikipedia says that Vince did a cameo appearance on GL in December 2006, shortly after he left AMC.

I know he and Ellen Wheeler had a meeting or two about possibly bringing him back to the show around that time, but I don't recall him being seen on air.

But maybe I missed an episode or two. Any else recall him doing this cameo? Or is this just one of Wikipedia's many mistakes?

R332

Being raised Catholic may be why he's anti-abortion.

I'd like to think the vast majority of actors who work around a multitude of gays (in front and behind the cameras)aren't homophobic.

That has to be a mistake, R333. It would have been promoted if he'd have been on there.

I loved Kristie Ferrell as Roxie Shayne. I never understood why they did not bring back that character instead creating an all new sister for Reva.

I was raised Catholic, R334. I'm not anti-abortion. I don't think men get a say in the issue, with the possible exception of the potential father. And even then, what the woman says goes.

From what I recall, Vince said in an interview somewhere that he was at a very low point in his life sometime in the late 90s and found the Bible comforting to him. That's when he became super religious.

I know it was after he left GL. Not sure if he was on AMC or not.

Vincent did not return to GL in 2006 after he left Y&R; they would have been wise to grab him, but at this point I think P&G just wanted the show axed.

Imagine Nick going back to Springfield with or without Susan, he falls for Beth and she for him. And THEN Phillip comes back?

That shit would have written itself.

Imagine if CBS and P&G had rehired Pam Long in 2002 and she went gangbusters and the show shot up to # 2 or # 3.

Imagine if P&G said Okay, we want out of the soap biz, but this thing is now making big money for us again so we'll stay in it.

VI is a Scorpio. That says it all.

Lujack's got to be the stupidest fucking soap opera name EVER.

R337

I wasn't agreeing with his views at all.

I am 100% pro-choice. Would never vote for someone who didn't feel the same.

I was just guessing that being raised Catholic influence him.

Speaking of Ann Hamilton, she has a role in the new Magic Mike movie!

OMG. Just checking out the May 11 issue of Soap Digest. On page 26, they have photos of various NYC daytime alum at a charity bowling event.

Michael O'Leary looks portly! He was on the heavy side in the final years of the show, but he's put on at least 40-50 pound more.

And Kim Zimmer! I barely recognized her. She's added another 25 pounds or more. And she's not dying her hair blonde anymore either.

R339 I have said something similar. Nick coming back, a Beth/Nick relationship then Phillip comes back. You would barely have to be able to write and that shit would have written itself and been explosive. Then imagine throwing in Lujack coming back! LOL I do think this would have helped the ratings.

[quote] Michael O'Leary looks portly! He was on the heavy side in the final years of the show, but he's put on at least 40-50 pound more.

I think he's done with TV. That "Steamboat" thing didn't fly. He's now selling real estate.

[quote] And Kim Zimmer! I barely recognized her. She's added another 25 pounds or more. And she's not dying her hair blonde anymore either.

She looks dreadful. That long hair on her looks hideous.

R341, Lujack gave himself the nickname -- he couldn't quite say Luvonachek (sp?) his real last name. It came out Lujack.

LuJack sounds good compared to the Chinese name he had on YR

r341, I beg to differ. I thought it was pretty cool.

Nobody at the studio ever wanted to follow Zimmer in the john after one of her lunches. She would wolf down on potato skins, chef salad and a greasy cheeseburger and have the runs all afternoon and she thought it was FUNNY. She slammed Jordan Clarke for being gross when he had kissing scenes with other actresses (yeah, nice that you spelled Maeve's last name wrong in your book KZ) when Robert Newman would have a can of Re-Nuzit Air Spray on hand when KZ would pass gas continuously. Her weight gain towards the end of the show prompted Wheeler to suggest a storyline where KZ lost the weight and KZ said no way.

R350 - WOW.

And here I thought when I had Zimmer

((((BELCH)))))

in one of my posts here that I was being extreme. Apparently I wasn't even being true enough to the mark.

Huh.

God I hated VI and Nick...."Mewinda," and his fake laugh. The ruined Alex for Nick...(suddenly she became a shrewish mother figure who obsessed on her boring son.)

Poor MOL he was really normal guy cute when he was younger, right up the time he and Abby split up. Then he got puffy and his schtick of acting like a goof went overboard. They really needed to give him a behind the scenes job and hired someone else to play Rick.

This blogger is mentioned at the AW thread. I guess he does a lot about AW, GL, ATWT....

Just noticed the background on here is from the GL 80s opening. lol

I agree, r352, Rick should have been recasted. Like Mart Hulswit when he could't fulfill the romantic leading man role anymore, he should have been replaced.

But O'Leary was never leading man material. He did, however, have a stronghold on the nolstagic factor. People kept him aroud because he was well-loved. Unfortunately, the character could never be taken anywhere while they insisted on treating him like the hapless goofy boy next door. Rick went through a brief addiction storyline that tied him into the Bauer legacy, but it was superficial at best. LOADS of material to work with in this character - as I said previously, there was lots of potential for Rick to come at odds with his father over Ed's self-destructive behavior through the years. Rick, however, appeared oblivious to the damage and grew up seemingly well-adjusted. Didn't ring true.

Interesting fact: O'Leary was extremely close with McKinsey in real-life and was one of the few of her soap co-stars with whom she remained in close touch with during her final "reclusive" years (the other being Jay Hammer).

R341 no bitches I take the cake for stupidest soap name!

Thwack thwack thwack thwack thwack thwack.

That's the sound of my six flaccid inches hitting my thighs when I walk naked around the Springfield Country Club locker room.

Funny how Kim's butt cheeks make the same sound so often.

India taunted Phillip once with the fact that Beth had made love to Lujack but not him.

The way she punched his name was brilliant... "She made love to a real man...LEWWW-Jackkk!"

R354

La Bev also remained close to Vincent Irrazarry.

He talked about their closeness after she passed away.

[quote] That's the sound of my EIGHT flaccid inches hitting my thighs when I walk naked around the Springfield Country Club locker room.

Believe me, it's at least eight soft.

Interesting ... so Beth and Phillip didn't make love for the first time until John Bolger played the role - or when Beth Chamberlain took over the role?

I'm sure if Beth had sampled the notorious Marler goods on Phillip, she would never have gone for Lujack's uncut Italian sausage.

Bev also stayed extremely close with her former TEXAS co-star Daniel Davis until the very end.

She was good friends with Michelle Forbes too, but I don't know if they remained close after Forbes left the show. I remember a SOD article that went backstage at GL and it noted that the reclusive McKinsey was in her dressing room with Forbes smoking cigarettes with her. I think I noted that because at the time Alex and Sonni were best friends on the show and I always caught a huge lesbo vibe between the characters and the actresses.

Bev's sexual ambivalence - usually reserved for quasi-incestuous chemistry with men who played her family members - came out in spades in her scenes opposite Forbes. I thought it was just the actresses' personal subtext, but then there was scene where Alex and Sonni were sitting on the foot of a bed while Sonni confessed to killing Will and Alex was consoling her and promising to help her. I thought the two women were actually going to end up kissing.

Then of course we had Holly and Alex working together to trap Roger in his lies. McKinsey and Garrett acted like they were going to take one another down n the floor everytime they had a scene.

r362 Thanks for your insights. In previous threads (some of the Midwest Cities one), we discussed at length how La Bev never had much sexual chemistry with her leading men, but had it in spades with people who played her family members, like Doug Watson and Chris Bernau. And yes, some of those Holly-Alex scenes were definitely sexually charged.

Bev had chemistry with damn near everyone.

Interestingly, Bev was the only person who got along with Daniel Davis. The rest of the cast and crew hated him.

Governor Mike Dukakis son John Dukakis on Guiding Light

I remember reading in an interview, sometime before she left GL, that Bev had went to bat for Daniel Davis to be the new Alan Spaulding.

isn't there a scene where grant's bulge is visible on camera

i forget was it guiding light or as the world turns (i'm pretty sure it was ATWT) that featured that hot as hell sexy beefy hairy bodied, wavy salt and pepper haired daddy irish DUNCAN MCKENCHIE character played by actor michael swan who you could always count on during the summers to be in a bulging snug speedo by the pool...

great masturbatory material as a youngster he was for me!

r368 Grant's bulge visible? Practically any scene where Phillip was wearing a Speedo or jeans.

However, there was a scene in Aug 1983 where Grant unintentionally got an errection that was seen on camera.

Phillip was sitting on the sofa watching Mindy do yoga. He soon got an erection, but to cover it up he put his moved his leg.

Unfortunately, it's not available on YouTube. Wish it were, because it was quite long

R369

Duncan was definitely a hot daddy. A couple years ago someone posted a fairly recent pic and he's still hot. Distinquished older man. Still has a lush head of hair.

He was involved for a long time with his co-star who played Shannon.

R361, it was Bolger and Evans, I believe.

Boy, the show really wasted some years by not bringing back Alan-Michael during that awful Harley/Phillip/Beth triangle.

Harley/Phillip just didn't work. Boy did they have an insane fan base but I just never saw Beth Ehlers as sexy in any way. She was shrill and pretty but not sex appeal. They should have brought Beth back to get Phillip back, but she sees Nick, falls for him, which makes Phillip go nuts and he dumps Harley to get Beth back and go from there.

The period of 1982-83 post Doug Marland and pre Pam Long exactly how many writing changes were there ?

I was disappointed that so many characters faced the chopping block once Pam Long hit town.

R374 Who were they?

I loved the disco opening. It was so hip and modern. Gail Kobe got rid of it immediately.

Are you guys sure Bath's first love scene was with Bolger's Phillip?

WTH? What took TPTB so long they lost GA before they got them together

R369 and R371 Enjoy. He is 66 years old and still looks amazing.

[quote] I was disappointed that so many characters faced the chopping block once Pam Long hit town.

Most of those changes came from the network. It was the big push to update the show - Marland fought it during his regime but with a new and inexperienced HW they called for a lot of cuts, especially to the Bauers.

Long often gets blamed for that, but she had a number of long term stories for those characters that were cut (when the network pushed out Don Stewart, who played Mike Bauer, for example).

I think Pat Falken Smith and L. Virginia Brown were head writers in between Marland and Long.

I believe it was Brown that wrote Phillip back onto the scene.

I couldn't believe how many TEXAS actors were brought over to GL. Harley Kozak and Michael Woods played siblings on TEXAS, but in-law/love interests on GL.

It was tough seeing all the cast changes, but along the way something happened -- the show got great again. It wasn't the Dobsons or Marland, but Long's GL became a show I had to watch every day, rich, colorful characters and hardly any recap -- the kind that Marland was famous for. (But don't get me wrong, he was the best.)

Once Charita died, I would have brought Hope back in some capacity and groomed her into the maternal talk to that Bert was for everyone.

It made no sense that she never came to town again, especially for Bert's memorial.

She did r367. And it would have been a better choice than what they made. The one person Bev just didn't seem to have any chemistry with whatsoever was Daniel Pilon who played Bernau's replacement/recast. But then again, no one did.

r370, interestingly a shot from that scene was shown during GL's opening titles for an entire year. I remember that scene well because I am a raving foot freak and we had feet and dick everywhere with that scene.

I am surprised that there aren't any of GA's beefcake scenes on YT.

Or anything to do with Alan-Michael's stories through the years, r380. Hope had absolutely nothing to do with her son at all. But GL lost its sense of family that made it what it was by the late 90s.

It always bugged me that another devoted mother Elizabeth was never brought back for at least family visits. She cut Phillip off from her life forever.

GL was really known for so many missed opportunities over the years. The missed things alone could have run story for years.

The show should have been called "Missed Opportunities".

Announcer: "And now, Missed Opportunities. This portion of Missed Opportunities is brought to you by Dove. Strong enough for him, gentle enough for her."

I honestly think that by the time Phillip's paternity came out Elizabeth was all but forgotten.

I recall Grant as Phillip having one-way phone calls with Spaulding in later years and he'd say, 'Thanks, Evie,' who was on the show back in the '80s.

I got the impression Grant was always adlibbing stuff like that -- mentions about Evie and Vera and Joseph long after they were gone.

Long time fans appreciated that.

One of the last Elizabeth references I recall was at Vanessa's winter gala that brought Alexandra back to Springfield. Beth was wearing a dress and Phillip said it was Elizabeth's wedding dress.

Missed Opportunities, indeed.

Refresh my memory about Phillip's parentage. It's all foggy.

He was raised thinking Alan was his father but his real father was Justin? How did Alan come to raise him instead of Justin?

IIRC that was revealed at the Country Club party. How exactly did that all come about?

His mother was either Jackie or Elizabeth. IIRC Phillip was raised thinking Jackie was mom but it was really Elizabeth??

How did all that go down?

It's been so long ago it's fuzzy.

This might explain, R388

Why did PG think removing the "the" would get young people to tune in?

R388

That just tells me his biological parents were Justin/Jackie and Alan/Elizabeth were his adopted parents.

I'm confused about how Alan/Elizabeth got him, how Phillip learned the truth, did Justin/Jackie/Ross know the child being raised by Alan was theirs, etc...

r390. P&G did the same thing with Edge of Night. They thought the "the" sounded old and stale, so they removed it. Not sure how that was supposed to translate into attracting younger viewers. I guess "the" was considered uncool in the late 70s, although The Young and The Restless was climbing to the top of the ratings during that time.

R389 I think P&G just panicked for a bit since GL was so dominating for decades then started slipping when some new, upstart soaps starting rising in the ratings at the same time. I think the quality of the show was there so they knew it wasn't that. Panic set in and they figured it had to be because the show was older so they wanted to find a way to make it hip. Afterall, so many of the older soaps were failing but none of them quite had the domination GL had for decades. In hindsight, it was just in a bit of an ebb, it had a very loyal fan base so there was no need to panic. The younger shows would have to stand on their own, grab a loyal fan base or they wouldn't last long. I'm sure some network idiot claimed credit for dropping "the" when GL remained stable. LOL

r387, I think Evie was a Spaulding secretary.

Evie was Rita's sister and Amanda's rival for Ben.

r391, fragile Elizabeth gave birth to a stillborn while in Switzerland. Her husband Alan, wanting an heir, arranged with his friend Dr. Paul Lacrosse to replace his dead son with the newborn of another of Lacrosse's patients, Jackie Marler. Jackie had fled to Switzerland after finding her husband Justin in bed with another woman (who was played by Jobeth Williams, btw). Jackie found out she was pregnant and vindictively gave the child over to Lacrosse because she wanted nothing to do with Justin. She told Justin she had an abortion. She came to regret her actions and made friends with Elizabeth to be close to her child. Elizabeth was kept in the dark for years that Phillip was not her biological son; Alan had no idea who Phillip's real parents were. When he divorced Elizabeth, he married Jackie who had hoped she could finally be Phillip's "mother" by being his stepmother and not having to upset the apple cart by revealing the truth. However, the court awarded custody of Phillip to Liz. Justin had discovered Phillip was his child when a delirious Jackie, who miscarried Alan's baby, revealed the truth to him. Justin married Liz, whose relationship with the man she loved - Mike Bauer - was ruined by Alan's campaign to poison Phillip's mind against Mike. After sleeping with Mike, Liz ended her marriage to Justin when she overheard Justin telling Mike that Phillip was not her biological son. Justin and Jackie confirmed it, and she ran off to Switzerland to undergo extensive therapy, leaving Phillip in their care. By then, Ross also knew, but kept it a secret for Justin. Jackie and Justin remarried and became surrogate parents for Phillip, who loved them both as his one-time stepparents. A renewed Liz decided the Marlers should have custody of Phillip, and then took off for Switzerland never to be seen again. Phillip was kept in the dark about his lineage while going back and forth between the Marler and Spaulding households. When vile Bradley Raines found out Alan's secret, he blackmailed him but couldn't help but finally reveal the truth to Phillip during a vicious confrontation. This is when Phillip found out that he was Justin and Jackie's son.

Btw, Elizabeth was mentioned in 2004 during Phillip's funeral. Alan told Alex that Liz was living in Europe and wasn't making it for the funeral. I hate it when writers don't see it necessary to honor history. She should have been there.

Eve Stapleton McFarren was Rita's sister; the much-mentioned Evie during the late 80s was a Spaulding secretary.

Eve Stapleton McFarren was Rita's sister; the much-mentioned Evie during the late 80s was a Spaulding secretary.

Phillip's middle name Granville was Elizabeth's maiden name.

I forgot to add that Alan didn't learn Justin and Jackie were Phillip's real parents until about 1982 after the Diane Ballard murder - Diane Ballard had overheard Justin and Jackie discussing their secret and blackmailed them. Her private papers were released to Alan after Carrie Todd confessed to killing Diane. Jackie and Justin and Alan agreed it best to keep it a secret from Phillip, who was away at boarding school at the time.

The rumors that I sniffed Phillip's cum stained underwear are completely untrue.

As are the rumors about the camera in Phillip's bedroom.

He is a strapping young man, isn't he?

R396

Thank you so much for refreshing my memory about Phillip's parentage.

Could someone please explain Rita. Why was she such a hot mess? She's the kind of character who should have returned years later with a secret child or something.

OMG, you soap fans are pathetic. Discussing 35-40 year old storylines.

I only go back to about 25 years, R405!

But this is a [italic]discussion[/italic] board.

Given that you fail to comprehend this … you need to know that your presence, here, has never been requested or wanted.

Does anybody else think the actor Luke Evans looks like Chris Bernau?

Yes!

I've been scratching my head trying to think who he reminds me of.

[quote]OMG, you soap fans are pathetic. Discussing 35-40 year old storylines.

This is the same board that has an annual Auntie Mame thread. That still discusses plots about Golden Girls, I Love Lucy, Will and Grace, and Designing Women. This is the same board that used to dissect the plots of Love Boat and how they were duplicative of Love American Style plots.

So you have the nerve to pick on soap fans who discuss some old stories and plots?

Do you not know where you are?

How funny that the cunt at R405 knew who Chris Bernau was when she posted again at R407.

You know - the original Alan, the one from the 35-40 year old storyline.

THE CALL IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE.

Shut it r410. Just because I know exactly what you were talking about/referring to doesn't mean I approve of the thread being mired down in absurd nonsensical storyline trivia from 40 years ago. Now piss off.

R411 Listen, you low born gutter tramp, go back to the truck stops in Tulsa. We only do high class here.

r412, I suggest you drop the war tactics. Try love....

Oooh, well played!

You see bitches? I know my soap shit too. That doesn't mean I allow a thread to get completely suffocated with obscure references to 'Rita' or who Phillip's natural mother was. Let's concentrate on keeping the thread vital.

I want to talk about Beth Ehlers. Why did she capture the imagination of America in her first run as Harley and then flounder upon her return?

I've always thought if Beth Ehlers had played Julia Roberts' role in Pretty Woman, she would have gone on to the same level of superstardom. I've also always considered Julia more suitable to the soap genre, since she is only capable of playing one character. Ironically, many of her auditions in the mid 80s were for soaps.

thread closed

I'm FFing

Wow - so r411 wants to dictate the topic of discussion, refuses to allow anyone else from sharing opinions and cherished memories and generally allowing all fans from across the board to celebrate the show he/she/it professes to love. What a thoroughly unplesant person.

Do you find no one invites you to their house to play, r411?

r419, nobody's got time for that late 70s crap. Let's discuss Harley and Mallet.

r404, read r236.

So discuss it, r420. The great thing about this thread is that there should be someone who will want to engage in that conversation with you. Meanwhile, the late 70s "crap" can continue to be a source of interest for others, which, judging from the thread, is a considerable source oif interest for many people. But that doesn't mean you have to engage in the conversation - make your own posts and encourage others to talk with you instead of stamping your feet on the ground when things aren't going your way.

It's like a party. There are people talking over there. There are people talking over here. Conversations vary and flourish simultaneously. Something for everyone.

Also, r404, read r159.

r404, someone on this thread suggested that Olivia should have turned out to be Rita's daughter with Ed. That would have been a GREAT idea. Olivia was so much like Rita in many ways.

I had a fantasy scenario where Fletcher returned to town and brought his new wife, who turned out to be Rita.

Joe Willmore was going to bring Kasdorf back to GL in 86 (along with ELvera Roussell as Hope) to re-ignite the Bauer-Spaulding war, but for whatever reason, the plans fell through. In the 90s, when Michael Laibsen was bringing 80s faves back to the canvas (Reva, Nola, Amanda), speculation was that Rita may be the next one to return. Lenore Kasdorf responded to the rumour in SOD saying she hadn't been approached, but was all but willing to make a return. I don't know why we never her again; I can only guess there may have been two reasons:

1) having Reva and Rita in the same town would be too much for a writer to juggle.

2) having TWO of Roger's rape victims in town would be hard for a writer to work with. Holly's rape was hard enough to deal with - how could they try and explain Roger raping Rita as well?

Lenore Kasdorf and the character of Rita had "it" going on. Never has a soap character quite jumped off the screen this way for me as she does in re-watching GL on YT.

I'm also a 30-something gay man with a crush on Maureen Garrett. She's amazing.

R424

Roger raped someone besides Holly? Really?

[quote] someone on this thread suggested that Olivia should have turned out to be Rita's daughter with Ed.

That was me, bitches!

I didn't come up with that but I've said a number of times it was a great idea.

Rita could have been brought back as an ex-wife of Buzz's.

Yes r426, Roger violently raped Rita soon after she became engaged to Ed. She was terrified how Ed would react so she kept the incident a secret.

Later, when Roger was charged with raping Holly, Rita struggled with her conscience to reveal the rape to help Holly's case but chose to keep quiet. When she finally did reveal what Roger did to her, it was at the 11th hour and led to a series of tragic events that made GL history: Ed was so angry that he beat Roger to a pulp, and Holly was so traumatized she grabbed a gun and shot Roger when Roger gained the upper hand; Roger blackmailed Alan to help him fake his death and Holly was sent to prison for his murder, which eventually led to Roger returning to terrorize both Rita and Holly - he kidnapped a pregnant Rita and held her in a cabin where she ended up being trapped in a fire while tied to the bed and miscarrying Ed's baby; Roger then kidnapped Holly and dragged her through the jungles of Santo Domingo, where he eventually "died".

The 90s continuation of the Holly-Roger saga played it that Holly was always the source of Roger's obsession; the story completely ignored the obsession he had for Rita, who represented his baser sexual instincts. 90s Roger was glamourized as the town anti-hero - dealing with his rape of Holly was heady enough; bringing back yet another woman he stalked, terrorised and raped would interfere with the soapy playing down of his past as a serial rapist and misogynist. I am convinced this is why we never saw Rita Bauer again.

R429

Holy Shit! That makes Luke's rape of Laura look like a romance novel.

Is any of this available on YT? I remember seeing Roger's rape of Holly I was young but I still remember it.

OP's enormous imagination.

R429 is that the famous "Enough is Enough" scene in the Fun House?

r429 Thank you!

I knew bits and pieces of the Roger-Holly-Rita-Ed story, but had never seen it summarized so succinctly. You filled in a lot of missing gaps in my knowledge (didn't start watching GL until 1982). Really appreciate it.

Approximately what year was it that Roger raped Holly and Roger raped Rita?

The fun house sequence....

Roger's rapes occurred between 1978 & 1979.

The "Enough is Enough" sequence was when Roger, thought dead after being shot by Holly, returned to kidnap his daughter; Rita recognized him in disguise at the carnival, prompting him to kidnap her. She was pregnant with Ed's baby at the time. Roger kept her tied to a bed in a cabin in the woods. Mike and Ed located her, Roger panicked and ran, knocking a kerosene lamp over and setting fire to the cabin, leaving Rita to die in the flames. The smoke inhalation caused Rita to miscarry her baby later in the hospital.

Roger also caused the death of the plastic surgeon he was romancing in Paris; the woman fell for him but came to fear him when she learned about his criminal past. He came to her to force her to help him escape Mike. She ran from him and fell down a flight of stairs, breaking her neck.

Any Alexander nude pics?

When she first appeared in Springfield, Rita pursued the new doctor at Cedars, Dr. Tim Ryan, who was played by Jordan Clarke. A couple of years after Kasdorf left GL, Clarke returned to GL to create the brand new role of Billy Lewis.

No, r438 ... and I am surprised by the lack of beefcake photos/YT clips. He spent most of his '86 CAPITOL run in speedos, hottubs and bed scenes and no one appears to have saved any of them (nothing up on YT). I remember alot of bed scenes from his AMC days, but have never found anything on YT.

A towel scene:

Did he fuck on set? Any hot stories?

The only romance known is the one he struck up with a bit player named Sheri Ramsey, whom he eventually married and is still married to. Aleksander, vegetarian and animal rights activist, appears to be a stellar guy.

I always thought he would throw a good fuck. With lots of dirty talk.

[R416] Beth Ehlers did not "flounder" upon her return to Guiding Light, she saved the show from cancellation. Her return drove the ratings up more than a full point. CBS was itching to cancel GL after they cancelled the show in 1995, only to have P&G threaten to never advertise on CBS again. CBS uncancelled GL and announced an exclusive advertising deal with P&G. In 1997, when GL celebrated its 60th anniversary, P&G had a new CEO who wanted to get out of the soap opera business. Because GL was the only soap to gain viewers that year, CBS renewed it. Beth Ehlers was still GL's most popular actress when she left the show in 2008.

[quote] I always thought he would throw a good fuck. With lots of dirty talk.

yessssssss. I'm a shorter guy, and always dreamed he would pick me up and walk me around on his cock./....

R443

Grant met his wife on the show?

I thought they met in college.

I always thought Aleksander met his wife while on GL as a recurring character (in the Rose and Rusty story), but if they met in college that makes their relationship even more "unHollywood" considering they are still together and have been since their early 20s.

They have no children, but live with tons of rescue cats and dogs. They are virulent PETA activists. She quit acting years ago and went into law; she is now assistant district attorney in New Jersey.

Aleksander returned to school after GL ended to finish his theatre major as a kind of promise to his late parents. He attended classes at Washington and Lee, and started teaching theatre. Imagine seeing him walking around campus as a hot daddy.

He was a natural actor for the soap medium in that he feels more comfortable as part of an ensemble and working off other actors. He may have held a leading role on a soap for over 20 years, but he really does have the theatre spirit in him (many actors on GL did). He had bit parts on prime-time shows during his breaks from GL (Who's The Boss, Hardcastle & McCormack, The Fall Guy), tried a couple of other soaps and characters for a break from Phillip (villains on Capitol and AMC), but GL gave him the theatre domain he is more at home in.

My job gave me an indirect tie to the Daytime Emmys in 2009; Grant and most of the GL cast came out to the show to take a bow.

I got to meet him and he couldn't have been more gracious and kind. He sensed I was a fan of the show, and probably his, too.

He's a good guy.

You sometimes don't want to meet people you like because they let you down -- or maybe you just catch them on that one bad day.

Is their proof of his endowment?

R450 I've seen it in its flaccid state. It is one of the biggest dicks I have EVER seen.

R51, bitch start talking. Details required.

R453 I've shared this before here several times, so ppl have read this before...

I was at an event at a restaurant in NYC that featured Grant and several other actors. After dinner, I went to the restroom as I needed to pee.

I realized as I was walking up to the available urinal that the very tall man using the next one over (the only other one) was indeed Grant.

He was talking to a friend who was washing his hands (who probably pissed where I was, and had finished). He was looking back at this guy and was obviously involved in the conversation.

I usually take just a lightning-quick peek, but my eye was drawn to take a more direct look because it was so big. It was enormous even flaccid. It looked as sizeable soft as many dicks I've seen hard, in terms of length and thickness. It did have a bit of that "torpedo" look (A bit thinner closer to the head.) I made a point to look for as long as I could.

I make no suggestions that he knew I was looking, or that he was showing off, or anything like that. But I have probably spilled a few dozen loads thinking about what an amazing cock he had.

While hiding out in Bloomfield, West Virginia, Our Rita mopes about her mother's house treating the lovely elder woman like shit and then sending the poor dear into a tizzy when she announces she's going to have an abortion.

That other Rita - Rita Lloyd - is equally mesmerizing to watch as the weird and unbalanced Lucille Wexler.

Meanwhile, Rita's mousy sister Eve ends up disco dancing with Rita's former lover (a surprisingly good scene). And here I thought Marland introduced disco to Springfield.

I did not expect grants wife to look like this

Are you sure that's not his mom?

LOL, R456. No, but in her defense, they're in their mid-50s, so it's not that she looks old as much as he looks young.

And as hot as I still think Grant looks, he's definitely aged in the last few years. He looks 55 - a well preserved 55, but his face is looking a bit leaner these days (and during this last GL go-round).

I find vegetarians have that look when they age. He was always sharply defined in his angular features, but a non-meat diet will only sharpen and accentuate those angularities as one ages, and get that "sickly gaunt" look. Still, he has taken exceptional care of himself all his life, and although he does look his age, he is still a hot guy.

Ramsey was always a little mousy. I find that combo of hot guy and mousy girl to be quite common.

R445 Just no. I have seen her fans claim this a lot but she was never that popular. She had a small rabid fan base of frumpy, mousy brides maid-like people like herself. There were other reasons GL went up in the ratings and it had little to do with Harley coming back.

Do people actually watch soap operas? WTF?

Thanks for contributing Bloomberg. Added a lot.

The "fuck" is you, R462.

And with that pleasant exchange, here is more Aleksander Prime A+ beefcake ... Phillip parades around the apartment in nothing but tight little shorts while Rick tries very hard to pretend he doesn't want his best buddy to rip his asshole a new one:

(Opening scene and later around 6:00ish)

So crazy to know Beth and Phillip didn't do it until AFTER she was with Lujack and before Judi left the role. How long did Beth and Phillip date the first go around? It wasn't very long I don't think.

Didn't they decide to bring in another leading man for Judi Evans because the hatred between Evans and Aleksander was so intense?

How did Guiding Light afford all of that popular music for those scenes between Rick and Phillip?

Soaps back then were a showcase for popular music in the early 80s.

This was kind of fun to watch- great clips:

[quote]And with that pleasant exchange, here is more Aleksander Prime A+ beefcake ... Phillip parades around the apartment in nothing but tight little shorts while Rick tries very hard to pretend he doesn't want his best buddy to rip his asshole a new one:

Scenes like that were both exhilarating and nerve-wracking for me when they aired. I started watching GL with my mother when I was in middle school, in the throes of puberty. I convinced myself I had a crush on Mindy Lewis, but those shirtless scenes with Phillip always had a greater physical effect on me. :-) I distinctly remember a shirtless scene with Philip where he's wearing just a towel and he's blow-drying his hair. As the camera zoomed in, all you could see was his face and his armpits. I swear that scene awakened a sexual interest that I had no idea about previously.

Thanks for sharing that, r470. Seriously. I can't imagine GA has any clue what an impact he had on young men's budding sexuality. He played a pivotal part in mine.

I know this isn't an ATWT thread but ATWT was also a P&G soap.

Today Frank Runyeon (ATWT's Steve Andropolus) appeared on Y&R.

He looks good. He definitely looks better than his former co-star Meg Ryan.

I had the hots for him back in the day.

r471 Between John Wesley Shipp parading around in nothing but a Speedo and Grant Aleksander doing beefcake scenes, Guiding Light was the place for young gaylings to begin discovering their sexual desires.

R466 Did Grant and Judi really hate each other? I just don't see either of them having a personality someone else would hate.

Judi Evans was so homely that she was even the plain, chunky girl on daytime soaps. She got a lot of great stories on a few different shoes so I guess she's done okay for herself despite being as frau looking as she was. She was a good actress though.

R475 Judi could look quite beautiful actually. The character of Beth was written to be very beautiful and all the men of SF fell in love with her. If Judi was so "homely" then I don't think the character would have been written the way she was.

I never thought she was beautiful either. But in the 80s you could get away writing someone beautiful that wasn't necessarily played by someone who was the model definition of "beautiful'. Certainly not by today's ridiculous standards. She wasn't a fugly dog. But she was pretty in small town way and always struggled to keep the donuts at bay.

Judi and Grant got along OK at first.

Judi had a falling out with most of the cast (especially Grant, Krista Tesreau and Mikey O'Leary) after she began dating one of the producers, won the Emmy and started to have multiple stories built around her.

Judi seems nice enough, but she was young and inexperienced and I assume she didn't handle all that power well, nor did her costars handle their jealousy well.

I believe she was let out of her contract six months early because of the intensity of the conflict on set. By that time even John Bolger was involved.

She didn't marry the producer, though, he eventually left.

St. Beth was an archetypal character - the good girl from the different side of the tracks that represented what was fine and pure outside the more jaded characters, even with her youth expended as a tormented, incest victim. She was the shining gem amidst even the most brutal reality. Her strength and courage was enlightening rather than threatening or complex. Complexity used to be reserved for self-destructive characters or traditional villains; now it is the norm. You don't get Beth Raines characters anymore - everybody is a jaded character. GH's attempt with the gag-inducing Sabrina the nurse was farcical in the face of today's customary cynicism.

But even then, Beth was a bit too much for some viewers. Every man loved her. Even perrenial good boy Floyd Parker went beserk and uncharacteristically turned into a cowardly murderer because of his unrequited love for her! Most of us cheered bitchy India on every time she railed against "saintly" Beth and shared her exasperation at the free pass Beth always got.

Judi has aged wonderfully. Never found her attractive at all when she was younger. I saw her on DOOL last year and thought she looked fabulous. She grew into her looks.

So did Judi Evans' Beth sleep with John Bolger's Phillip, or did Beth and Phillip make love for the first time when Beth Chamberlin took over the role?

I believe Judi slept with John Bolger's Phillip, before she disappeared into the lake.

Before Judi left the show, Beth and Phillip moved in together so I think it is clear they slept together.

Although many stories did have Beth in them and all the men went bonkers for her, I don't think she hogged the screen. GL was pretty balanced during this time.

I think everyone loved India's bitchiness at other characters. Her railing against Beth was never mean spirited and was always out of jealousy (for lack of a better word) that Phillip put Beth on such a pedestal like she was a Mayan God. LOL.

I was always Team India. I couldn't figure out why everyone was so mean to her.

I clapped when she read Reva for the Tulsa trash she is.

The bad news is that it only gets an inch bigger when erect. The good news is that it's a fat nine-incher.

In the Blue Orchid ladies room, India calls Reva "Tulsa Trash" Shayne out for her embarrassing "biological twitchings":

Low. Born. Gutter. Slut.

Still one of the best scenes EVER. Amazing what can happen when the characters are so well defined......

Why didn't I marry Warren Andrews? Honey, the man named his nightclub The Blue Orchid. If that doesn't tell you what you need to know about him, then you should see him in one of my fur coats. He made Liberace look like a real man:

Yes, warren Andrews always came across as gay, despite claims of heterosexuality. But he did make a wonderful sidekick for both Alex and India.

What ever happened to the character? Did he have an exit storyline? Or did he just sort of fade into the background and was never mentioned again?

Warren killed Paul Valere. (If you're saying, "Who?" you are not alone. Some dumb story between Pam Long regimes.)

So he went to prison.

I recall that when India seduced Warren, I thought that Warren Burton had a pretty nice body. Can't find a YouTube video to verify my gayling memories.

yeah, I'd love to see episodes of that brief Warren-India affair. I remember when Alex found the two of them romping around his penthouse and she flinged his pants at him, telling him he needed them to protect himself from her. It was the beginning of the war between Alex and India.

They initially played it that Alexandra and Warren were all about S-E-X. That he had some kind of sexual hold over her she couldn't resist. There was subtext that he was more like her brother Alan than her other suitor Ross Marler was, so she eventually fell for Warren. They really should have developed a Ross-Alex-Warren story out and had Alex corrupt Ross - or "recorrupt" him, making more of a long-term couple of Alex and Ross. They dropped that story to concentrate more on the younger generation of paulding.

Here's some afternoon delight for Alex and Warren - twice:

Warren worships Alex's feet around 33:52:

THIS is what Alexandra and Warren did best!

Amazing how much use they got out of that condo set; I think it was Reva's first, then it went to Warren, then Kyle, then Alan and then Phillip.

It's too bad they didn't bring Warren back later to create a little trouble for Indi during one of her story returns, or when Marj Dusay was playing Alex.

Ditto for James Rebhorn when Beth was playing the bitch.

McKinsey really was breathtaking when she first arrived on GL. Was she in her early 50s?

I'm watching some episodes from November 1981 on YT and realize that:

a) Douglas Marland's dialogue is really quite bad if it weren't for the actors doing their best with it;

b) compared to the trampy, scrapper she was when she first tried to steal Kelly from Morgan, I really don't like the kooky, airheaded Nola that was paired with the ridiculous - and I mean RIDICULOUS - Quinton McCord;

c) Jane Elliot as Carrie Todd was quite charming, and she exhibits the only sexual chemistry she ever has with a leading man in her entire soap career with Jerry ver Dorn.

R498 Points taken, though I would add

(a) The HW almost never writes dialogue, and

(b) I loved Nola and Quint (but everyone's mileage may vary)

R496

What happened to Bradley's character? Didn't someone murder him?

Bradley eventually died and left Beth some mining rights or something....that was that whole Lorelai mess.

I have to say one thing that I liked that Claire Labine did was she put Phillip and Beth back together, they thought they were dying in the plane crash (no air) and they made up and then made love.

Phillip and Harley never worked because there was little to no mention of Alan-Michael.

I don't think Phillip/Harley worked on many levels except as friends.

It was very smart to put Phillip/Beth back together which produced James and gave some good fall out.

I don't think James Rebhorn would have come back to GL to have a major story since he was kind of a big deal filming countless big roles all the time. Though I do think he would have made a cameo which they should have done when they killed him off.

Anyone remember the actor's name who played Beth's abusive husband? Lizzie killed him trying to protect her mother.

The actor was so hot.

His name was Jpseph Murphy, R504.

The character was Carl Stevens.

This guy?

R505/504

No that's not him. The actor was very handsome.

IIRC his last name was something like Abbodabo.

He was so goodlooking.

Are you sure you aren't thinking of the guy, Jim, Beth married who was killed in a fire? He was smokin' hot!

R508

I guess he could have died in a fire. For some reason I thought Hayden P's Lizie killed him because he was abusing her mom.

It's been so long I can't remember the particulars.

I just remember her husband being smoking and the actor's last name was something like Abbodabo.

Anthony Addabbo played Jim Lemay, the adopted father of Harley's daughter Susan/Daisy. Seems like he was involved with Beth. May have married Beth. Sorry, I can't remember the exact details. He was a very boring character. I'm pretty sure he died in a house fire trying to save someone (Lizzie perhaps).

Lizzie killed Carl Stevens, who was Beth's abusive boyfriend. Hayden Panettiere played Lizzie at the time.

I believe it was Brown and Essenstein who wrote the plot where Beth and Phillip were trapped in a plane crash in the blizzard on the tropical island of San Cristobel.

R504 Yes, you got them confused.

R510 covers who Jim Lemay is pretty well. I think he did marry Beth at one point.

This queen loves her Guiding Light, I guess!

Whoops posted link in wrong place.

HW's don't do dialogue, but surely, they oversee what has been written before it goes out, no?

Early Marland-era had Harding Lemay on his wiriting team, and the dialogue and stories were sophisticated drawing room drama. Without Lemay, later Marland era was just good soap.

Head-writers did write dialogue, to various degrees. Lemay talks in 8 Years in Another World about how much of the final dialogue he felt he had to write or re-write. Marland often talked about "hand-writing" key scenes on his own.

Marland obviously wrote scenes like the Nola/Kelly reveal, or important, key scenes.

But most of the time, the head writer leads the planning of big story points and then acts more like an editor, in some ways.

Jim Lemay may have been a dud of a character, but I was glad they brought Susan Lemay, Harley's daughter by Dylan Lewis onto the show. She was a good addition and Brittany Snow was a fantastic actress.

She was much better than when they called the character "Daisy" later on.

SOD is reporting that SudsvilleTv is starting this fall with online soaps they swear will rival TV soaps.

There will be traditional soaps, game shows with soap stars, talk shows with soap stars.

Michael O'Leary was announced today as being the host of a Soap Trivia show.

Maybe that new GL isn't so crazy an idea after all!

[quote]I don't think Phillip/Harley worked on many levels except as friends.

They never should have been paired.

Enough of the viewing audience were glad to have Beth Ehlers back, and they had a willingness to fill in the holes by accepting Harley with another guy that was not Mallet (because the offscreen relationship between Ehlers and Mark Derwin didn't last).

Harley and Phillip looked like they could be biologically related. The visual of those two, as a couple, was not pleasant.

I liked Phillip and Harley initially. But it should have been a friends getting each other through a rough spot kind of thing.

GL tried to make them a big supercouple (no) and then tried to make them mortal enemies (double no).

I reeeeeallly hate this new format.

Yes, pairing Phillip and Harley was a big mistake. Sex and romance really did not do service for the wonderful special (platonic) bond that formed between these two unlikely friends during Pam Long's second run.

The Harley-Phillip pairing was one of the many things which seemed to begin unraveling the show. That was right around the same time they were making Amanda into Brandon's daughter rather than Alan's, cloning Reva, bringing in the Santos mob clan. So misguided.

Yes, I'm also hating this new DL format.

I've told this story on other threads but for this one it bears repeating:

In 1983 my bf was a day player on GL. He was friendly with Chris Bernau from their theater days. He was standing around on the set with him when Grant sauntered in, walked past Chris and my bf, walked over to Chris, put his hand on hiss shoulder and said "I'm off to take a nap in my dressing room, Chris. I've had one hell of a night at The Glory Hole." He then walked to his dressing room. My bf's jaw dropped, Chris smirked. My bf was set "straight" about Grant. Chris had apparently told Grant's stories about his sexual past and The Glory Hole figured into them. He would head there right after performing onstage in The Passion of Dracula.

Grant and Philip McGregor, who joined the show with him as Rick Bauer, remained very good friends. Philip was from a well-off family on the Upper West Side and started off doing extra work in movies and commercials. You can see him for a brief moment in the movie Manhattan in front of the Dalton School where Mariel Hemingway's character goes. I knew Philip briefly and he was a sweet yet shallow kid who, according to several mutual friends, gave an absolutely fantastic blow job. I have a feeling Grant might have enjoyed these from time to time. I saw Philip on the street a few months ago and he still looks pretty good. I'm sure he left the business years ago, which makes sense be cause he was an awful actor.

that's a great story, R525, thanks for sharing; I never understand why straight guys make jokes about gay sex. Of course, I'm thinking that maybe it's because they've tried it or are secretly gay. Probably not in this case. But still...don't they know they're turning us on? Why do they do that?

r526, it kind of depends on the guy. Alot of straight guys get an ego thing out of "teasing", "flirting" with gay guys, knowing full well it won't ever happen. Some of them are closeted/curious. Some of them are being just downright douchey. But I think humour is a safe way for many to retain their masculine composure while intermingling with "the homosexual".

As long as they don't feel the need to beat the shit out of anyone for being gay, I have no problem with the "teasing". It is kind of a guy thing anyway. Straight guys rag on one another all the time.

In Grant and Chris' case, I get the impression that GA was just having some fun with Bernau.

r525 Are you saying that Philliip McGregor is gay in real life? You sort of imply that, but don't outright say it.

For those five months he played Rick, I kept wondering if they were going to make the character gay.

McGregor was certainly cute when he was cast, but was never a really strong actor. He was vastly weaker than Grant. I've often wondered if they had cast a stronger actor from the get-go, whether Rick would have been a more central character on the show, rather than the perpetual sidekick. Michael O'Leary always came off as a goofball anyway, so he just continued the sidekick status that McGregor originated.

R527, thanks; of course in this case it's wishful thinking on my part that GA dabbled! You only joke with people like that if you really get along...GA has said CB was very helpful to him when he was starting out.

From everything I hear GA's heart is as big as his...well, you know...

Philip McGregor is most definitely gay. A purse leaped out of his mouth every time he opened it to speak. I'm sure he's had a great time over the years.

And yes, that absolutely was Grant having fun with Chris B. He saw two gay guys (my bf and Chris B) standing around gabbing so he obviously saw a perfect opportunity to mess around with them in a totally harmless manner.

Kim Zimmer and Robert Newman, together again!

With La Zim as...Mama Rose?

Grant is a very kind person, but I'm sure he did tease Chris Bernau.

It worked for their relationship and their performances. Chris was besotted with Grant early on, and it really read on screen as fatherly love.

It didn't touch the creepiness that James Mitchell brought to Palmer's dynamic with Nina or Iris' sick obsession with "Daddy" on AW -- but it came close!

I mean, "Hold me."

MAAAAAAARY.

That was....well, it was.

Many years ago Soap Classics started selling DVDs of classic episodes from GL & AW.

The Bauer DVD set was never released. Someone on eBay (bulldogtradingcompany) has 9 sets of the unopened Bauer DVDs. There are 11 episodes in all.

The first DVD are classic Bauer episodes. For example: Bert losing her leg.

The second DVD are classic episodes of the Bauer BBQ.

I'm on my phone and I'm having trouble linking to the actual eBay item.

You can search eBay with "GL DVD The Bauer Family Story 11 Episodes" or the seller "bulldogtradingcompany"

Each episode is described and listed with its airdate.

Here's the info on the two disc Bauer Collection set:

The Bauer family first appeared on the 15-minute radio version of THE GUIDING LIGHT in 1948. The family moved with the show to television in 1952 (also continuing on radio until 1956). They remained central as the show moved its setting to Springfield, expanded to 30 minutes and then 60, and from black and white to color. This collection covers a span of episodes from 1973 to 2009. The episodes are divided into two discs: * Disc 1, "Meet the Bauers", features six pivotal episodes in the history of the family, including a rare "bonus" episode from 1973. * Disc Two, "Bauer Barbecues" contains five of the family's traditional Independence Day gatherings (the Barbecues are one of the top requests from GL fans).

Disc 1: Meet the Bauers

1. "Man of the Year", November 14, 1977 (one of the shows first one-hour episodes) 2. "Where in the World is Santo Domingo, March 19, 1980 (Roger Thorpe has kidnapped Holly. Filmed in Santo Domingo. 3. "Courage", June 27, 1984 ( a moving episode where Bert Bauer loses one of her legs reflecting what actress Charita Bauer went through in real life). 4. "The Return", Nov. 22, 1996 (Mary Stuart, former star of "Search for Tomorrow" debuts as the new Meta Bauer. 5. "Death of a Patriarch", Feb. 27, 1973 (the lost episode where Papa Bauer has died). This also comes with the original network commercials!!!!

Disc 2: The Bauer Barbecues

6. "Unexpected Arrival", July 2, 1987 7. "Dueling Barbecues", July 4, 1994 8. "Party Crasher", July 4, 1997 9. "America The Beautiful", July 4, 2002 10. "One Last Time", July 3, 2009

70 bucks feels a little too steep for me.

I think they're charging $70 because the Bauer set were never released.

IIRC I originally bought the Reva set for $24.99

it is steep but I think the shipping's free...I never know when youtube's going to shut down all their soap stuff so I'm thinking about getting one...over 5 years later it's still so strange that the show isn't here anymore.

I moved across country in the 80s and it was very comforting that I could turn on the TV and see my GL 'pals'.

The show became so unwatchable with all the san Cristobel stuff and the Santos clan. as far as finales went viewers got a lot of happy endings, at least.

This moment may have already been posted. Shirtless Grant Alexander in short shorts.

R450, that episode is amazing -- not just b/c of the Grant shirtless stuff.

It's the first meeting of Alexandra and India on screen; ironically, Beverlee was off for a few days due to the death of her husband, I believe; and Lydia Bruce from THE DOCTORS stepped in. She actually did a very good job and played the history between India and Alex re: the Baron.

I don't know if he submitted himself for the Emmys the year that Phillip took over Spaulding Enterprises from Alan.

It culminated with him on the floor of the country club, by himself with a bottle of champagne (only an unseen Harley viewed him from a distance). "Try and disown me now, dad" Phillip said at the end. Amazing story. Great acting.

Not sure how old he was back then but maybe he could have been eligible for younger leading actor, but honestly he should have won for lead actor.

Grant was born in 1959. So, he was 23 when he started on the show in Dec 1982.

If I recall correctly, the takeover storyline was in 1987, so Grant would have been 28 at that point.

The Younger Actor/Actress category of the Daytime Emmys did not start until 1985. I believe the age cutoff was 25. At one point over the years, they lowered it to 21, but raised it back to 25 a few years later.

Agreed, R542. He definitely deserved more recognition. The takeover story was one of the best.

Is that Grant's wife at R543? LOL

Has Phillip's thread gone limp?

I wanted a big finish, you see,

Grant is doing a play in Camp May.

DONG!

I still get press, bitches!

You simply must read this amazing article by David Kushner, "My Handyman the Soap Star".

I'm all verklempt.

R549 I *know*. I wept over that myself.

R549

MARY!

MARY!

M

A

R

Y

!

!

!

!

R543 writes,

[quote]The Younger Actor/Actress category of the Daytime Emmys did not start until 1985. I believe the age cutoff was 25. At one point over the years, they lowered it to 21, but raised it back to 25 a few years later.

That categorical level was a joke. Within the first five years, there were at least three actors at the age of 30 in the year of their nomination: Don Scardino (1986), Debbi Morgan (1986), and Andrea Evans (1988). There weren't any standards back then. Around 1989 or 1990 marked the point in which the Academy started doing age cut-offs. But the system was still gamed.

I wonder what Morgan Englund looks like now. Or if he ever learned how to act.

R553 I think I found him on Facebook. He's a firefighter in LA now.

Your mileage may vary, but I think he has aged nicely.

Morgan in uniform

R549, thanks so much for linking to that article. Great stuff!

Morgan looks good and good for him to be a rescue worker!

I have a place where Morgan could put out a fire.

ooooh

The ever gorgeous discussing his time on GL while promoting Magic Mike XXL

A trailer was released today for a movie starring Crystal Chappell and Jessica Leccia.

CC plays a veteran soap diva deciding to retire. Jessica plays her agent and longtime partner. Shortly after retiring CC is diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's Disease. Various soap stars are seen in the trailer.

CC/JL really do have amazing chemistry in everything.

That clip definitely looks good!

GL premiered on this day in 1952.

*sobs* still cant believe gl isnt on anymore

I catch a lot of guys staring in the sauna.

He poked me in the eye once with it.

Beth was Phillip's one true love, but he had plenty of other wives and lovers over the years.

Who came in second? India? Chelsea? Olivia? Blake? Mindy? Harley?

I think he had some very unique with India, but my money's on Chelsea. They had nice chemistry.

Philip and Olivia had phenomenal chemistry at first, until the personal feud between Grant and Crystal devolved into pure bitter hatred.

Grant and Mary Kay Adams (India) really had wonderful chemistry.

Phillip and Chelsea were the antidote for insomnia.

He was with Chelsea Reardon?

R569 Yes, Phillip and Chelsea got together shortly after Grant returned in 1986. I think they were together until sometime in late 1987 or 1988, when Blake was introduced, and then he was paired with Blake while Chelsea was paired with....Jackson Freemont, maybe?

She was also paired with Johnny Bauer (zzzzzzzz) but I think that came later, after Roxie had her breakdown.

I miss the Bauer BBQ.

Sigh.

R571 The soap queen mentioned here before does too, apparently.

R568, I loved Phillip and India together and thought that Phillip and Olivia had some great stuff going, too.

Chelsea was Phillip's first big relationship post-Beth and the writing was excellent; Phillip going to Beth's grave on Christmas Eve ('87?) was powerful stuff.

Does anyone have a wheelbarrow?

My dick and balls need a rest.

As long as I have a face, your dick and balls have a place to rest, Grant.....

OMG. This episode is so good....

AND it's the one where they announced Charita Bauer's death at the end (before Bert herself died).

Charita was only 62? That doesn't seem all that old.

Actors have age ranges and Charita's was that of a matronly grandmother. Ellen Parker's Maureen played older. I think the show would have sustained Maureen's death more if it had simply brought Elvera Roussel back as Hope to play that motherly 'talk to.'

That episode posted by R576 is wonderful! The actor playing the d.a. went on to play Marsha Talbot's cousin on ATWT and was an instrumental role in the conclusion of the Doug Cummings storyline. The woman playing Alicia Rhomer was excellent! Love where she goes from snapping at her crew (which appears to include GL producer Bobby Kochman, I think?) and then she goes into the demure "hello..." once she goes on camera. Betty Rea, the casting director, found not only wonderful contract players, but excellent actors to do day player stuff, too.

They brought Meta back for the motherly talk to role. Why do people seem to forget that?

That's right, R579. They did, and it was a great move on GL's part. It only took P&G 10 years to realize that Mary Stuart still have value.

Pam Long and Gail Kobe, the team that gave us that great year of 1984 with GL, really cut out a lot of the Bauers; when they were done, we had Ed, Rick and Maureen, and Ed's daughter with Claire....that didn't seem like enough. By the time Meta came on she couldn't tell Abby from Michelle...I just watched some classic ATWT -- Christmas 1985 (yes, 30 years ago!) And it was all about family. God Bless 'em, they propped up Don McLaughlin in a chair as Chris and you had him and Nancy, Bob and Kim, Tom and Margo, and Andy and Frannie...it was Frannie's birthday; the love in the room was overflowing. Who wouldn't want to have family like that?

It was tough watching soaps do away with all of that over the years.

I am r580's twin. Can you fucking believe they made Mary Stuart audition? And then instead of writing to her strengths, they started writing Meta as a speed demon bossy pants. Oy.

Not only did ATWT keep the Hugheses around, until 1996 they always had their own stories. Then came the dark times...

In R576's link Aicia Rhomer mispronounces Von Halkein as "Von Hallkeen." What kind of stupid name was Von Halkein, anyway? It should have been Von Schittstuhrer.

Shortly after Search for Tomorrow was canceled at the end of 1986, Mary Stuart did an interview and mentioned that P&G planned to move her over to Guiding Light playing a character named Hannah Bauer. Mary Stuart didn't elaborate more than that, but presumably, she would have been the grandmother of Johnny Bauer who arrived in Springfield about that same time, as did his sister Lacey Bauer, (who was in town just a few months before being written off).

Obviously Hannah Bauer never happened. But it does seem bizarre that P&G waited a decade to finally bring Stuart to GL. Never knew they made Mary Stuart audition before casting her as Meta.

Anyone remember how they were dropping hints that Selina (as played by Patti D'Arbanville) was Meta's long lost daughter? If they'd ever gone with that, it would have made Selina's long lost daughter, Drew (as played by Tammy Blanchard), a Bauer as well.

[quote] Pam Long and Gail Kobe, the team that gave us that great year of 1984 with GL, really cut out a lot of the Bauers.

Pam is almost always blamed for this, but CBS wanted to make the show more contemporary, and they demanded those changes. Marland held off on some of their earlier demands, but especially once GL was pulling near GH, the network wanted and insisted on less Bauers.

Oh, don't get me wrong R585; I'm a BIG Pam Long fan.

She wrote MEN -- Billy, Alan, Phillip -- she had dynamics between men. They didn't just argue over the same women as on most soaps. I know everyone loves the Rick/Phillip dynamic, but I really enjoyed the Phillip Alan-Michael one; Carl Evans wasn't the best actor, but I think he worked well with Grant.

There was a scene in the Spaulding dining room in which AM let Phillip know he knew that Phillip was the father of Meredith's baby. AM blasted an overprotective Phillip with: "You want to be my 'Daddy.' You want to take care of me."

I couldn't believe that they got that on the air.

Pam Long's script writers must have been gay or had a gay subtext.

There was a whole scene with Phillip, Rick and a teddy bear that was all but a love scene between them.

During the Rick/Meredith/Phillip story the gay subtext was totally over the top. You couldn't help but wonder if Rick was upset because Phillip slept with Meredith and not him.

And of all the women Phillip could have ended up with why did he have to pick one of Rick's VERY recent ex's?

And was all this in Rick's mind when he slept with Harley, Phillip's ex.

Let's not forget about Beth and Mindy.

Rick wanted Phillip's 11 x 8 to fuck him.

Is there anyone here (G and L only, please) who *hasn't* fallen in love with his or her best friend?

I'm so proud of my dong for almost getting to 600 replies!

*slaps dong loudly*

New thread, kids.

SO EXCITED, the first episode of the new season of House of Cards, Josh and Beth (the actors who play them) are in the House of Cards

Just saw Grant as the understudy of the lead role in Off Broadway's "Perfect Crime". I couldn't help but glance "you know where" (thanks, Ma!), but his suit wasn't tight enough to show off anything. He looks just as good, if a bit older, than 10 years ago during "Guiding Light's" last year, like Laurence Lau who was in an Off Broadway play I saw last year.

1984 Guiding Light was fantastic due to a combination of many elements, but my favorite moments involved Susan Piper, the Barbados shoot and the Fletcher/Claire love scene with Whitney singing in the background as they frolicked in the pool.