Why did Vicky Hudson marry her twin sister's rapist?

Love is blind

It's what women do. This kind of thing happens all the time with females.

Vicky was a crazy impulsive bitch who had been mixed up with Jake all her life. I wonder if it really was out of character. Marley was sheltered and reserved and I think on some level Vicky was disgusted by her.

Good question, OP!

Jensen Buchanan somewhat took the edge away, as appealing as she was. But I think there was a point where she basically said she wouldn't play both sisters so they sent Marley packing and brought her back with Ellen Wheeler as a psycho.

[quote] so they sent Marley packing and brought her back with Ellen Wheeler as a psycho.

Which changed Marley's appearance in the fire. Not only that, she was stretched about 6" taller

Jensen was so nice to look at she was so fucking hot.However she was not the actress Wheeler or the bugfuck crazy Heche was.Of all the recasts on the P & G shows this one was perhaps the most daring.In that each actress looked quite different from one another.The role got interesting again when Wheeler played up against JB.

Anne Heche was my one and only Vicky/Marley.

I remember the first day she showed up on screen. She was electric.

She played the dual roles so well. To have that much talent and to be so young

Below is the link of Marley confronting Jake about how he raped her.

Absolutely stunning.

I was never able to believe Jake would have raped Marley. It was idiot plotting.

Anne Heche was amazing. When I see that chick on Game of Thrones, the one with the dragons, I can't help thinking how Anne would have rocked that part. She was about the same age when she did AW. Such a better actress too.

Cynthia Watros filled in as Vicky for a few days when Jensen was off negotiating her contract. I wish Watros had stayed, it felt like she played the role the whole time and she had Heche's nervous energy too.

r8, that was sublime. Wasn't Anne about 20 or 21 there? What young actress of today can even compare to that?

Why not?

R12

There isn't anyone (young actress or older actress) on daytime now that has the talent of Heche.

She was just amazing.

Sadly, her post AW career has never given her anything worthy enough of her talent.

Compare Heche as the twins to Julianne Moore's dreadful work on As the World Turns (that phony English accent UGH!). Moore didn't always *have it*, she obviously worked very hard to become a better actress. But Anne Heche was born with it IMO. As r8 said, the first moment she appeared in the bubble bath, she was owning the role and eventually the roles.

However her acting job as a dyke and Ellen's wife by was absolutely horrid. Heche might have been great on AW but she hasn't really distinguished herself compared to some of her peers.

AH did have an edge as the twins.There was something off in her take.That edge definitely added something to the performance at hand.

did she get her beak fixed after this?

I guess it's all vintage now but this is real vintage.

The screen charisma of these two on their own, plus their chemistry with each other is mesmerizing. And the dialogue, while real enough, is so calculated.

These people aren't reformed murderers who have come back from the dead but they have baggage.

Reinhold gets a less than stellar rap on most of these threads but I can't take my eyes off him, either of them.

In between Ellen Wheeler and Anne Heche, Rhonda Lewin played Vicky for a few months in the fall of '86.

R8, that's what I call great acting. Thanks so much for posting that! Actors today should be 1/8 as talented as Heche was back then.

The only Vicki on TV I care about is fantastic, made of plastic, microchips here and there!

Good Lord. WHAT is with the obsession here with Anne He-She?

Once a lightweight, always a lightweight.

Stephen Schetezer (sp?) was on last week's The Black List.

He looked amazing. What is his secret?

Nothing made me happier than Cass/Felicia/Wallingford.

I wish I could track down the clip of when Vicky (pretending to be Marley at the trial since Marley had suddenly skipped town) learns from Cass that Marley was raped by Jake. She has to act as if it's not a complete shock (because obviously Marley would already know that she herself had been raped. But, of course, Vicky is learning this for the first time. After their conversation, Vicky goes into the bathroom and has a complete meltdown, kicking the door, throwing everything around and just basically going apeshit.

That entire sequence is some of the best acting I've ever seen in any medium. Anne Heche was *spectacular* in those roles.

Anne was astonishing as Marley/Vicky. She managed to create two completely different characters. I've said this many times before, but I could tell which character she was playing just by a glance at the screen. And not just because of the clothing, makeup or hairstyle. Anne had different body language, different way of carrying herself for each character. The best portrayal of twins I've ever seen.

Anne has never had another role as good as Marley/Vicky.

R24

That scene is on YT somewhere. I watched it in the last year.

One of my favorite soap SLs is the Who Shot Jake. It had me glued to my screen. It lasted roughly a year and it was methodically plotted out.

Absolutely brilliant.

R25

Totally agree. You could even tell by the cadence of their voices. Jenson never came close in her depiction.

Another stellar performance by Heche.

She about to go on trial for shooting Jake. She had told no one Jake had raped her-only that he attempted.

Cass is her lawyer and in desperation badgers her to try and get at the truth. She breaks and tells him the truth.

Miss Victoria and Master Jake knew each other for years before either of them met Miss Marley.

I always enjoyed Adam Chandler and thought Canary was in general a decent actor, but never thought he was that good with the dual role. Stuart never really came off as a real person, but how someone in high school would play someone mentally challenged.

Heche does a much better job conveying two different people.

Loved Cass Felicia and Winthrop too!

Cass is on sooo many TV shows as a 1- time role. Hug has not aged at all.

I remember the clues dropped that Donna actually had triplets and the third one was going to be Hank Cheyne's Scott.

When that didn't play out I remember being so pissed because it was obvious they changed direction after the groundwork was laid.

I also loved Denise Alexander as Scott's mother Mary.

After reading this thread I was up til 3AM today watching old YT clips.

Does anybody remember Ada's reaction to Jake raping Marley? WAS there a reaction?

I became a full-fledged homosexual the moment Stephen Yates took over the role of Jamie, stepping out of that truck in short jean shorts and a tank top.

R33

Hubba Hubba!

I remember him from GL but I don't remember him as Jaime.

Dr Cass Winthrop not only was he on Another World he was on Homeland as Cass Winthrop.Perhaps the first ever cross ever of a soap character and its actor crossing over into cable.

Stephen used to be the voice of ROC.Initially he did it with a French accent but he made Pepe Le Pew sound French.He eventually used his real voice.

I can't seem to find that clip, either, r24, and I know it used to be out there. It really is one of the great acting performances I've ever seen (and that young--Heche really was a phenom).

I am looking for the clip where Lilah explains to Jake what happened the night her mother died.

I am also looking for a clip with Cass, when he's going through some mental illness and he's afraid that something is going to happen to Charlie.

I have looked and looked, but can't find them. Can y'all help?

E37

Cass was the first soap character diagnosed BiPolar.

I absolutely loved PMV's over the top theatrical acting. Anne Heche was so naturalistic in contrast and together, they were magic.

Stop calling me Anne!

My name is

CELESTIA!

I've often wondered if the whole Celestia thing was a result of playing identical twins. Or did she have this 'alter' her whole life? I never read her memoir. It's also interesting how she said she was from another world, considering that was the name of the show she was on!

Paul Michael Valley!

Ryan Harrison. Loved that character. Super gorgeous and played the knight in shining armor type.

Wish we had scenes of him coming down to breakfast in nothing but a Speedo. (People who've read the GL thread will get that reference).

Remember Sharlene's crazy psychiatrist who was slowly fucking with her life and trying to steal John away from her? I think she eventually blew Sharlene up on a boat or something. There was also a trap she set for Sharlene in a fun house.

I remember a scene of the psychiatrist sitting in her apartment staring at a photograph of John with Basia playing in the background. Fucking loved that storyline. That bitch was crazy.

r43, what year was that?

R44, It was around 1990/1991.

Cali Timmons was playing Paulina during that storyline.

Ahh yes, Taylor Benson.

Some of the craziest, but still functional, people I've ever met have been psychiatrists. Taylor seemed like a very accurate, if somewhat exaggerated, portrayal.

I've always seen myself as a reckless gambler, risking all that I had whenever I could....

Taylor Benson, yes! Thank you. I loved that storyline. Soaps used to take time with storylines. There was such a slow build-up with that one.

Taylor played by Broadway vet Christine Andreas

r31 Yes! They'd been building up for months, implying that Donna had a third baby and that Reginald and Marissa were raising him as Scott LaSalle.

When Anna Stuart left the role via Donna having a breakdown and grabbing the three dolls, I was so excited. All those months of hints and here was what seemed to be confirmation.

Then they recast with Philece Sampler in the role. Good actress, but completely wrong for Donna.

But what pissed me off most was that they dropped the triplet storyline when Philece came onto the show. They claimed that the photo Reginald had shown Donna that caused her breakdown was of John Hudson holding her newborn twins.

So, instead of triplets, we got Donna as a sex kitten and the Sin Stalker.

R50 Philece was pretty and was a decent actress but the Donna Love recast was off.Anna owned that role and much like Elaine Princi playing Dorian on OLTL Philece was a serviceable replacement at best.

Jake winding up with Vicky was bad writing. We all know that he and Paulina belonged together. Paulina should have never been turned into a house Frau chasing after her stereotype husband and running an Italian restaurant.

Thanks for the clip r4, those were the days when soaps were well written, the acting was flawless and there were actual sets.

Anne Heche would have made a great Carrie Bradshaw.

r50, yes! the three dolls, I remember that scene. I thought at the time it was going to be Jake as the third child. Yuck it would have turned into a Greek tragedy.

I remember the Jamie they had in the 70s (back when he and Iris' son Brian used to hang out by the "pool" in the backyard) he was the homeliest looking kid in the world. I was so glad when they started recasting him, he got hotter and hotter.

Philece Semple was the perfect recast.

She did her best, was professional, but was a place holder for Anna S. When AS came back everyone rejoiced.

Why did Anna Stuart leave?

I could never watch much of AW because of Victoria Wyndham. God, that was one creepy looking woman with that horse face and those bug eyes.

Loved Anna Stuart. Loved Vicky Wyndham. I even liked her when she played Justine.

Well Anne Heche did play a Carrie type in the short lived network show Men. in Trees. The show had the same producer in SATC but took place in Alaska, A sweet charming show and much better than SATC.

Philece was better on Days and not as good on Rituals as she was on AW.Anna was so fabulous as Donna no one could touch her.I love the fact that Anna introduced Anne Heche to vibrators and the like.Though you would think that Anna could have found a bed friend to keep her company.Though James Cromwell is doing that these days.

r55 Bobby Doran played the teenage Jamie Frame, whose best friend was Dennis Carrington, played by Mike Hammet. Jamie and Dennis hung out at the pool a lot. Then in summer 1978, they sent Jamie and Dennis off to camp and when they returned that fall, they were adults.

These are the actors who played Jamie as an adult:

Tim Holcomb, 1978-1979.

Richard Bekins, 1979-1983.

Stephen Yates, 1983-1985.

Larry Lau, 1986-1990.

Russell Todd, 1990-1993.

I wish Richard Bekins had kept playing Jamie forever.

And BTW, Jamie is not spelled J-A-I-M-E. That's a different name. Spanish. Pronounced HIGH-may.

PG forced Lemay to age Jamie and Dennis. He didn't want to, but the other shows were going younger. So he created Blaine and the story of Rachel's son falling for the same type of woman as his mother used to be. Lemay had mapped out quite a story, but was fired and most of his ideas for Jamie were never realized.

Bev and Doug

The best of the many Jamie Frames.

.

A free blowjob to the first person who tells us what Jamie's original full name was and how he got his name.

Wasn't his first last name Matthews rather than Frame?

R67 At what glory hole in NYC and can Anna and Stephen give me a rim job as well?

I believe his original name was James Russell Matthews.

The James was for Jim Matthews, who at the time was thought to be his grandfather.

The Russell was for Russ Matthews, who at the time was thought to be his father.

The Matthews was because Rachel was married to Russ at the time, so their baby got the family name.

I think R70 gets to take his pants off.

R5, [italic] somewhat [/italic] took the edge away?

That's a big understatement!

Bekins was a big favorite.

Granted, all three big P&G shows went through cast changes but ATWT kept the Hugheses and GL had the Bauers (even decimated there was Rick, Ed, Maureen throughout the 80s), but outside of the Corys, AW really lost its history.

I so wish Doug Marland had gone to AW at some point. My guess is he would have brought back the Matthews clan, especially Beverly Penberthy as Pat.

Bekins popped up for a few shows on GL as a date of Vanessa's. His character was at the Blue Moon the night Alex paid Mindy back for screwing her husband.

When you think of it, there's a pretty large stable of hose faced actresses on soaps, starting with Victoria Wyndham and Hillary B Smith. Patricia Bruder is another and there are many more.

But for me, Wyndham will always be the Beth Howland lookalike.

I thought it was three cushions, not three dolls.

I loved the AW freeze frame, really missed it when they stopped it.

You do not get half a blow job R68. You would cheat and cum quickly from just one lick of the tip.

R70, you too are wrong. So no bj for you either.

Richard Bekins was also Vicky Wyndham's favorite Jamie. They are still good friends.

Here is another trivia question, which headwriter did Wyndham get into a shouting match with?

and another

Which actress, who played Vicky/Marley, did Wyndham absolutely detest?

I don't know that Wyndham "detested" Jensen Buchanan, but she was put out that TPTB catered so much to Buchanan -- the cushiest taping schedule, helicopter rides from her home in CT, etc. I would assume Wyndham wasn't the only one who resented the special treatment.

I would be surprised if it was just one headwriter Wyndham got into it with.

R78 again after Harding LeMay left Wyndham said she never had another storyline again

She was just an attachment to the men on the show.

Is that really true about Jensen Buchanan and a helicopter?!

Yeah it is true about the helicopter

She moved to Connecticut, and to get her back they chartered a helicopter and she only worked 2 days a week,

A helicopter? JB was a beautiful girl but she didn't make a difference on either AW or OLTL.Her acting was the least of all the Vicky and Marleys.

If they gave JB a helicopter ride did Lisa Peluso get a scooter ride at least?

[quote] Is that really true about Jensen Buchanan and a helicopter?!

Yes, her vestigial penis was so big she could helicopter it all around.

SWING!

Here's a great compilation of scenes dealing with Rachel vs. Mac over custody of Amanda, circa 1979:

R84 and again Wyndham argued this was about Mac character and she was just pushing the plot along

a) He asked her

b) She always hated her sister.

b) Their mother's rapist was already married.

c) She was burned out on dating.

The actress who played Frankie reunites with the actor who played Cass.

Is this hugely fat dude seriously Tom Eplin (Jake)???!!!?!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!

R87,

Thanks for posting that. Mary Frances Ordway (aka Frankie Frame) was one of my all-time favorite denizens of our beloved Bay City.

Eplin always looked like the typical frat boy scum.Now he looks like the fat insurance salesman who shows up at the high school reunion having gained 100 pounds.It couldn't have happened to a nicer person.

r89, NO, that's not Tom LOL

Shush R91 we love dumping on Eplin when he's down!He was slightly fat back in the day and God knows what he looks like now.

That's not Eplin in those pics.

Little bit of gossip: he had an on and off affair with magazine Stephanie Sloane.

He supposedly gave her Herpes.

Rumor has it Eplin owns a car dealership in California now.

He was a looker back in the day.

R87

Thank You!

I've marked the date. I will definitely be watching.

I can't believe we have a Vicky-Wyndham-Said-She-Had-No-Storylines troll.

Wyndham couldn't stand Jensen, but she liked Eplin which I found interesting. She thought Michael Malone was a kook. She liked the Justine storyline as it was pitched, but didn't like what it became. Doug Watson's death hit her very, very hard. She was practically inconsolable. When she first started on the show, she got the treatment from George and Jacquie, but quickly put them in their places and they never messed with her again.

When Vicky Wyndham's Rachel became a hit, Agnes Nixon approached her and Harding LeMay at a party to celebrate Another World's 10th anniversary.

"Did you know that I created the role of Rachel? You are very good in the part."

"Thank you, Ms Nixon - and now we're recreating her, aren't we Harding?"

SHADE!!!!!

I liked the Lumina storyline. I even liked when they were hinting that a vampire had come to Bay City. At least they were trying things to save the show.

Is VW entered into this years Kentucky Derby yet?

See why Vicky Wyndham said she had a storyline after Harding LeMay left

R99 What is wrong with you? You don't like Hispanic girls who pretend they are WASPs? Is that Lady Ronalda again? He loathes the P and G soaps. He likes all the crappy ABC ones and Days.

It never bothered me that VW didn't look like a typical soap star. Same with Tony Geary.

If the actor/actress can act and has chemistry then looks mean nothing to me.

VW's Rachel was great with Ada,Mac,Mitch,Iris, her kids,Carl,etc...

Yes, R99, she is. Although I wouldn't put money on her until closer to the Derby, as her odds are continuing to rise. Might as well wait to get the longest odds on her.

[quote] In addition to her career as an actress, Ms Wyndham is an accomplished equestrian rider. She has shown and owned horses since childhood. In the spring of 1996, she was invited to ride in the prestigious United States Equestrian Team Final Selection Trials for the Olympics held in Gladstone, NJ and in the fall of 1995 she appeared in the Celebrity Hack Class at the National Horse Show. She appeared again in the National Horse Show at Madison Square Garden in October 1997. She performs dressage on her fourth level Hanoverian horse, Andante.

VW wasn't conventionally beautiful, but I thought she was very striking. That was true of a lot of soap actresses that started out when she did. She just happened to outlast most of them.

Love to see Vicky Wyndham getting her due here on DL.

It's the SOAPS that got small!!

When I was a kid, I watched Another World and thought Vicky Wyndham was the same actress in The Shining.

.

Always wanted to see Vicky Wyndy take a crack at Dorian. Sorry, back to AW.

r67/r77 Are you going to leave us hanging or are you going to tell us Jamie Frame's original name?

Can somebody explain to me why circa 1996, Victoria Wyndham started playing Rachel as an Englishwoman and not only that, but an English woman who seemed like she was medicated?

It's true that many of the pre-80's soap stars weren't conventional lookers. But VW took the cake for a leading lady, especially lasting as long as she did. She had the long face, far apart, crazy eyes and wasn't the most feminine looking.

This artwork really captures her odd looks.

The dog is much cuter.

Pause the clip at 2:34 and tell me that's not fucking terrifying. Somebody compared her during that time to the Big Bad Wolf. It's apt.

Creepy

At least Wyndham has an interesting face. It would have been awesome to see her in a couple of horror movies. Imagine her as Mrs Danvers!!!

Victoria was a stunner. Simply gorgeous. Even the show's promotional materials billed her as beautiful. Some of you bitches just don't know what a gorgeous woman looks like.

Great clip r115, seen it many times

But now when I watch my eyes are mostly on Irene Dailey

She's as much a beauty as Sarah Jessica Parker or Tori Spelling.

Again Vicky Wyndham said she had storyline for the last 18 years of her tenure on AW

Once Harding LeMay left, all she did was hold up scenery

Jamie was born

James Gerald Matthews in 1969. One his first storylines was Rachel stealing his trust fund to get a glamorous apartment as she was preparing to rid herself of Russ. It is unclear as to when he was first referred to as Jamie or who gave him that nickname. By 74 he was already a pre-teen.

Fans complain about SORASing now, but they used to SORAS the fuck out of characters back in the day.

[quote] Once Harding LeMay left, all she did was hold up scenery

At least they didn't make her pull the plow.

Gerald was her father's name

R115

WOW! What a good scene. That was before my time.

Rachel was a cunt in that clip. And Aunt Liz was so thin and quite pretty.

Alice seemed to be having a breakdown. What was going on and where was Steve?

I loved her running after Rachel and Liz holding on to her.

I also loved the wordless disgust on Liz's face as she shook her head while Rachel was saying she'd take over the house in the morning.

How did cunty Rachel transform into Mac's loving yet strong wife?

Where's the son you've ever given him?

Ouch.

Poor barren Alice. So weak. Rachel just sliced her up.

Wyndham had such intensity. And rage. Amazing actress.

And today, she'd never be cast because she didn't have the conventional standard of beauty required for soaps. Tony Geary, Justin Deas and Gerald Anthony (Marco on OLTL) would never be cast either. Erika Slezak probably wouldn't either.

r126 Alice wouldn't have lost Steve's baby and ended up barren if she hadn't gotten on that ladder to clean out the closet.

R127

I liked all those you listed except Slezak.

I always thought she was so stilted in her acting. Never liked Viki.

Slezak was so mannered. Very overrated. She also always looked matronly, even in her 20's.

I doubt even Susan Lucci or Robin Strasser would be cast today. Both were attractive, but not in the generic way most soap actresses today.

Look at Gerald Gordon, Jonathan Frid, George Reinholdt, Donald May, Ed Mallory, John Clarke. All those guys were leading men in the 60s and 70s. None of them could even get through the door now.

Interesting scene from the 25th anniversary where Gwen Frame confronts Rachel. Notice how Dorothy Lyman's performance is quite physically startling and outlandish - she's another unusual looking woman, like Wyndham, to say the least. Tell me what you think of the clip:

Who was Gwen's part originally written for for the anniversary? I know someone here has said in the past...

The Wicked Witch of Bay City.

R132 I generally like Dorothy Lyman - but she seems a little too one note and shrill in that clip. I was more annoyed than amused by her scene chewing.

Wow was Rachel not exactly the loving heroine in R115 's clip. It is hard to believe she mellowed that much before the end of the show. Was it a gradual softening or was their some specific event that occurred? It is one thing for a character to change or grow, but that does not even seem like the same character that was around in the '90s.

Rachel always said she transformed through Mac's love. The change came gradually. Mac could not trust Rachel at first, but she did earn his trust.

When I watched the clip linked at R115, one of the related suggestions was AW's final scene (linked below).

Comparing both clips, it's amazing to see how little Wyndham aged over the two decades or so she played Rachel. Whatever people think of her appearance, she sure was well preserved.

Lemay used Ada's late in life pregnancy to help soften Rachel. There were lots of scenes of Rachel caring and helping Ada, etc. The audience began to feel for Rachel and as her relationship with Mac began Lemay moved Iris into the baddie into place to be the bad girl.

Rachel and Erica Kane are the same character, the difference being that Rachel finally found a daddy to lover her. Erica never did.

VW looks a bit Megan Draper-ish in the photo at R118.

Great thread! i started out with soaps watching General Hospital (as many did), but lost interest. i liked Santa Barbara, but absolutely loved Another World, even the theme songs. i've enjoyed watching the vids of Vicky and Jake, Vicky and Ryan and Jake and Paulina. Good times.

thanks!

This thread is the rain when my spirits are dry.

[quote]Can somebody explain to me why circa 1996, Victoria Wyndham started playing Rachel as an Englishwoman and not only that, but an English woman who seemed like she was medicated?

That was so bizarre. I rationalized it as VW making the acting choice that Rachel just naturally started emulating some of Carl's cadences ... but it was freaking weird. I love VW but Rachel was like a pod person those past few years, with the accent and the "airiness" and even her wardrobe choices.

Ah yes r142, Rachel wore a lot of flowing white gowns ad spoke softly. She was very serene, but it was quite a jarring transition!

My theory as to why Wyndham turned Rachel into a kind of mother goddess figure at the end is because she wanted the character to evolve and so by giving Rachel that kind of mystic, Zen quality it signified that Rachel's neurosis and ego had finally been eradicated. I don't know how much this had to do with Carl or being without Mac and Ada, but Rachel definitely seemed to have found inner peace in the last couple of years.

R144 Wyndham called it not having a storyline and just recapping the plot

While she had SCENES she still says she had no storyline and absolutely nothing to do.

She was quite bored out of her mind at the end.

That makes sense. So Wyndham was so disenchanted with the show she just zoned out.

Rachel became the Alice Horton of the show while she was not matronly in the way Alice was.She did the best she could have under the circumstances.Charles Keating did have great chemistry with her though.He had a flair and panache that was rare to soaps.He also had the most gruesome hair in the history of soaps.

I really liked Cali Timmons' version of Paulina. Why did she leave the show?

R148 she was fired because she acting like Vicky Wyndham

Constantly complaining about her lack of storyline to anyone who would listen on the set

Judi Evans became available, and she was hot after her run on Days

So AW decided to make the switch.

Lack of storyline, R149? That doesn't make any sense. She was right in the thick of a front-burner storyline when she left. In fact, if I recall correctly, she went up the stairs at her own party (in a green dress) as Cali Timmons and came back down the stairs as Judi Evans.

Does anyone have any real information on her departure?

Years ago, someone here described Timmins as a placeholder for Judi Evans from the getgo.

R150 what storyline did she have?

Cali Timmins was really frustrated by the writing and was quite vocal about it

Vicky Wyndham could get away with that, but not new kid on the block Cali

In contrast Judi Evans takes whatever is given to her, and tries to make it work.

Cali went to TPTB constantly to complain about her storyline, or lack of it on a daily basis.

They just had enough

R141, your comment gives my life a hope that's real.

[quote] Can somebody explain to me why circa 1996, Victoria Wyndham started playing Rachel as an Englishwoman and not only that, but an English woman who seemed like she was medicated?

Are you thinking of the character of Justine?

Or is this a thought that Vicky went all Madonna-like and started being very starchy in her speech?

For some reason, I remembered Timmons being in the middle of a bunch of storylines when she vacated the role, but I could be wrong.

Didn't Cali enter a revolving door one day and Judi exited it the next day?

What happened to Tom Eplin?

R155 she was involved in a bunch of SCENES

but that doesn't add up to a storyline.

r154, NO, I am not referring to Justine. I mean Vicky as Rachel completely changed, it was like another woman, from another world - literally.

This Rachel was NOT the same.

The Rachel-didn't-have-a-story troll really needs to be slapped.

That vile tramp!

Are you sure the PodRachel wasn't connected to the Lumina storyline? Refresh my memory, wasn't that about a vampire from another planet, or a vampire from back in time?

R157, Cali Timmons as Paulina appeared in many scenes, yes, but she was still part of several storylines.

1) Is Paulina really Mac's daughter?

2) Who Shot Jake? fallout.

3) Grant Harrison.

4) She was also mixed up with this silver fox with a brown mustache who was hot beyond all fuck. Can't remember what his character was but he had kind of a Western/Everyman wardrobe. Kind of an Indiana Jones vibe.

5) Continued rivalry with Iris.

Rachel, do you don't love Mitch do you? Do you, Rachel? RAAAAAAAACHEEEEEEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL

[quote]Cali Timmins was really frustrated by the writing and was quite vocal about it

"The Red Swan" was pretty awful. That was probably Donna Swanjeski's first non-Lemay storyline, being it was a result of Douglass Watson's death.

One of you soap fans should start a thread about these two Portuguese boys in Os Nossos Dias ("Our Days"). It's very hard to decide which one's hotter.

R166, how about NO.

Wow, r167, you're so clever. Did you come up with that retort all by yourself or did you steal it from one of your clever American soaps?

R168, why don't you stay on topic or collect enough change around your house to come up with the $18 it costs to be able to create your own thread.

What's wrong with asking a favor from a fellow soap fan? Most members, unlike you, are kind enough to start threads for fellow non-members without all the cliquy negativity.

I thought some f you would dig Xavier and David, that's all.

Oh, and fuck you.

Because you're cheap and de-railing.

Baby, most people on the soaps threads just want to talk about their shows. And they are very polite to one another...at least on the P&G threads. They don't want to talk about every soap everywhere or about cute gay boys in general.

And there is already a perfectly good thread designed for people to suggest new threads. Seek it out.

R165 It was worse than the clown puppet murders on fellow P & G soap Edge of Night.That was high camp but Slesar had written the storyline so that it worked no matter how silly it would look on its surface.The Red Swan seemed like a bad plot point thrown out by Days.Then again how much pressure was NBC still putting on AW to emulate Days at that point.

Lemay wrote character-driven stories that consisted of heavily character-driven SCENES. Almost every scene during his day was about character, delving into their motivation and their yearning. That was replaced by traditional soapy plot-driven stories after Lemay left. I think that's what VW had in mind when she said she never had another storyline again after Lemay. It was all plot afterwards.

VW is lucky she even had that, R174. Did she not see what was happening to other legacy characters of a certain age around that same time. They didn't even get the scenes that she was apparently complaining about. They weren't seen AT ALL.

(see: Rodgers, Suzanne, DAYS)

[quote] Are you sure the PodRachel wasn't connected to the Lumina storyline?

Vicky Wyndham was asked about the Lumina storyline and she said if Rachel was in that storyline, she must of missed it.

Again saying scenes don't equal a storyline.

I bet she actually said she must HAVE missed it, r176.

As far as I know Mr. LeMay is still alive.

Any idea what he's done since leaving soaps.

He truly was (IMO) the best HW is soaps.

I understand he want to be a HW again.It should have been a no brainer though for a soap to have brought him on as a consultant.

R178

Should said he DIDN'T want to be a HW again.

R178 Better than Marland,Falken Smith,Bell,Nixon and Slesar? It is all subjective isn't it? Marland and Fallen Smith forever changed the genre with GH.Some of those elements were adopted by other soaps most notably Days.However other soaps like EON which tried to become a low budget GH and AW(which became a baby version of Days)were much less successful.Ah but we still had Cass and Felicia after all.Not to mention that fox Joanna Going.Talk about having a diamond in the rough.Her chemistry on AW with Ms Larry Lau was better than his chemistry with the supreme lush Kim Delaney on AMC.

Harding Lemay is my hero. I wish he writing now.

Tom Eplin was ten times the actor of Tom Hanks and Tom Cruise.

Lemay is like 95 years old. I'd be surprised if he's sitting upright and not shitting his pants.

R182 He was twice the size of both of them put together! Remember all the talk about Eplin getting fat during AW? His face was a little more than just a bit puffy.

So what r184? So was Orson Welles. Tom Eplin could have been huge (no pun intended).

[quote]Better than Marland,Falken Smith,Bell,Nixon and Slesar? It is all subjective isn't it? Marland and Fallen Smith forever changed the genre with GH.

They were all great in their own way but they never approached the sheer theatricality of LeMay. I remember a reviewer at the time called AW "sophisticated drawing room drama, like you'd see on the New York stage." Marland, Falken Smith, Bell, Nixon, Slesar et al had imitators galore. Most of them were bad but they tried. Nobody ever tried to imitate LeMay, even though he took AW to #1, because nobody else could do what he dd.

I'm so glad you AW losers have this thread. What a craptasitc show! AW was a ratings dud for the last 20 years of its life, plagued by a revolving door of writers, producers and actors, all anchored by Horseface Whoreham. That you people worship at her altar is pathetic. While AMC had Susan Lucci, GL had Zimmer, OLTL had Slezak and Strasser, DOOL had Hall, YOU were stuck with that horseface! LMAO!

Stay here and dwell on AW, and stay the fuck out of the other soap threads. You AW people KNOW what a piece of shit that show was, and I find it very amusing to see you living in denial.

[quote]Stay here and dwell on AW, and stay the fuck out of the other soap threads.

That's why this thread was created. The question is, what are YOU doing HERE if you hate it so much?

R188 - I just came here to warn all you AW queens to stay here and leave the other soap threads alone. You always ruin them. And if you give me any more back talk, I will take possession of this thread and destroy it.

[quote]And if you give me any more back talk, I will take possession of this thread and destroy it.

"You are ridiculous."

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you...a General Hospital fan!

R189 is One of GH's arch villains Ron Carlivati has invaded the thread.He is actually jealous that people still talk about AW,GL and ATWT in such glowing terms.His GH will be ridiculed for years to come.

Can I just say thank you to all of the AW fans who are making this thread such a joy to read. Thanks to all the clips, memories and taking time to talk about storylines from way way back. So appreciative.

At least that stupid Ada Hobson troll isn't here with that worn out and tired dish rag schtick. What a bore.

R194, you need a fatal kick in the cunt.

Our apologies.

Won't someone, for the love of God, please SHIT IN OUR MOUTHS??!!!???????

R195, keep it up bitch, and I'll give this thread a fatal kick in its cunt and send it to kingdom come.

Knock yourself out Psycho Carlivati-Cassadine Cunt, R197. But please, use something lethal.

Why didn't Mac adopt Jamie? I think there was a lot of resentment there.

Stephen Schnetzer appeared on The Following last night as a surgeon and his wife was played by Alice Barrett (Frankie Frame Winthrop)!

If this one goes, yours does as well, r197.

R187 Losers call Days DOOL. It is definitely Ron Carnival from GH.Or as people in the industry call him JER done wrong.

BTW Joanna Going and Lisa Peluso are so much hotter than anything currently on GH.Oh RW wasn't a great beauty but Bobbie from GH looks like an alien from Uranus.What a supreme fug.

I thought Joanna Going was the prettiest girl in the world. Even though Anne Heche was playing Vicky then, and she was amazing, I thought Lisa belonged with Jamie. In a later era, we'd've called them "Lamie."

Inspired by a DL poster, whenever I decide to "go to Rachel," I prefer the scene where Scary Rachel yells at Alice to get OUT OF THAT house because Steve gave it to her and wants her to live there, not Alice! One of these days, I'll go to Rachel and re-enact that scene on Youtube, lol.

As a child, I sometimes thought Rachel seemed sort of witch-like. Rachel always appeared, even in later years, two seconds from losing her shit on you. Lady Camargo's performance often left me slightly afraid of Rachel.

R194, you've earned two snaps of a wet dish towel to the taint.

I'm kicking R194 in the cunt as we speak.

Here's Ada Hobson beating up that other old dyke Mrs Chancellor from Y&R:

r194, keep that up, I'll stick this wet mop up your ass. Won't THAT be a kick in the cunt?

OMG R207!

Katherine Chancellor and Ada Davis!

Those old dykes!

This was the theme tune when AW's ratings first took a drastic dip.

[quote][R195], keep it up bitch, and I'll give this thread a fatal kick in its cunt and send it to kingdom come.

Cuntilla, I'll nuke ALL the soap threads for my own amusement. Since my soap was canceled, I give no fucks.

You keep it up, you psychopathic cunt. You know I have no problem with shutting 'em all down, bitch.

Rachel definitely had an.... interesting... face.

I love all the feistiness in the AW crowd.You go girls.Even in its worst days the soap had some merits no matter how bad it got.However it never got as bad as GH has.The big time writer there doesn't have the talent to top the P and G soaps so he whines and threatens.What he needs to do is to see a shrink and make his own soap better

This YT user had loads of AW episodes featuring the irreplaceable Cali Timmons:

R211, you pathetic cunt, LOL!! You have NO power to make good on your threats. But I DO. Trust me. When I say this is over, it's over. Now shove your dishrag up your rancid cunt, and shut the fuck up.

This thread is descending into lurid unpleasantness. I think we need a little uplift.

The things like at R210 are the ones I never understand....people who will make up their own openings, make their own things as if they were the producer, etc.

There's a really fat queen on YouTube who takes old TV interstitials and records his voice over them.....his lisping nasal voice saying "CBesssssss - in color!"

How many different themes did AW have?The last one was such a generic 90s soap theme as were the titles.Of the four remaining soaps Days has pretty much the original theme and opening,GH has a variant as does B and B and Y and R still uses "Nadia's Theme."

All the P&G soaps changed their theme tunes constantly. That's what contributed to their ratings decline IMO. They couldn't retain an identity.

I miss Ada, that mean old c###. She was mean I A Summer Place with Sandra Dee.

R208, you have gone too far this time. Threatening to stick a mop up r194's ass is just too much. I am afraid that I have had to flag your post due to threats of violence.

R217, can you post a link to the fat queen's videos? I want to hear him. Thanks. :)

R208/216 how can you threaten to shove a mop up somebody's ass in one post and then lament how the thread has decended into lurid unpleasantness? You are unbalanced.

R221 R223, you do realize it's impossible for someone to actually stick a mop through two computers and have it go up someone else's ass.

R224, are you defending the violent threat of shoving a mop up somebody's ass? If I were to tell you I am going to hunt you down via IP tracking and do you harm, it's no different than you threatening to shove a mop up my ass.

You can't shove a mop up someone's ass on the internet, fool.

Ravenbeauty wouldn't like this

I think soap court scenes often fall flat, but this has to be a top ten court room moment. Funny how there are scenes labeled 1979 where they are having major child custody issues, and by 1980 they have not only reconciled but have had time to have had an extra-marital dalliance.

R226, a threat is a threat, fool. I hope somebody threatens to shove something much bigger and sharper than a mop up YOUR ass. And then follows through on that threat.

All right, ladies, enough.

Do you think that Connie Ford and Irene Daily partied together?

If they did, R230, it's likely they never resorted to threatening each other with shoving mops up each other's asses.

The octopus has killed this thread. Too bad.

Let's just put it out of its misery.

R225 Should be banned.Why would you hunt someone down because of a soap thread? That is a criminal threat.Making threats like that will get you in trouble. You don't want your IP address being investigated by the police do you?Do yourself a favor and troll elsewhere.

R233 is probably r225

R233 is not R225 at all.

I'm watching the 1980/81 eps on YouTube, and it's basically The Blaine Show. They were really pushing that character -- she felt like the second female lead, next to Rachel. I was just a kid when I watched the first time, but I hadn't remembered her being such a major character.

Prove it.

Someone is intent on steering these threads in their direction. This thread, the GL thread, the GH thread especially.

Someone has decided we need a bogeyman on the GH thread and it must be Ron C. Trolldar and you'll see the one searching for that straw man slipped up a few times.

Now this thread is under threat from that octopus person or Justin or whomever.

Two devices on my home wifi will not turn yellow at the same time.

I have no tolerance for this. I'd rather see all these threads gone.

Kill it. It's almost as bad as the Frau invasion that killed them in the first place.

[quote]I'm watching the 1980/81 eps on YouTube, and it's basically The Blaine Show.

I really liked Laura Malone, though the writing at that time was largely mediocre. Alma Rudder was a hoot, though. Given Malone's prominence, I assume she was popular with the audience -- so it was really bizarre that TPTB hounded Malone off the show just because she was slow in losing some baby weight. And they replaced with a total non-entity who had chemistry with no one. Just one in another endless string of bad decisions in the early 80s.

[quote] it's basically The Blaine Show. They were really pushing that character -- she felt like the second female lead, next to Rachel.

Which is when Vicky Wyndham started complaining about her lack of storyline

Are any eldergays in this thread able to remember Lenore, played by Susan Sullivan? Tell us about her, she sounds wonderful.

Thank you for that, R214!!!

I loved it when Sharlene became "Sharly" and was hooking by the docks.

Russell Todd at a gay leather convention a few years ago:

Oh, my, R243. Gaymie.

I have my doubt about that Russell Todd photo. Nonetheless, he has has aged incredibly well. Of course, he started off better than 99% of the people on the planet:

R243 what the event (gay leather event) about and called?

Wow, Russell Todd still looks great!

Russell Todd was a contestant on The Price is Right in January

r246, I don't know. This was at least 5-6 years ago, I got it from an internet acquaintance who had met him at the gay leather event; he said it was in Washington, DC.

Maybe he'll be at IML this year.

Somewhere I read/heard that in 1979, about a year after Laura Malone started as Blaine, TPTB decided to write off the character. The audience wasn't responding to her they was they wanted and TPTB weren't thrilled with her performance.

So, Laura had a couple of weeks notice that she was being let go. She got with an acting coach (or friends) and worked her butt of preparing for her final shows. When she got to the studio, she gave gut wrenching performances and Blaine left town. Paul Rauch and the head writer (either Harding Lemay or Tom King at that point) were so blown away by what Malone gave in her last week, they rescinded her termination.

So, about a month after Blaine left Bay City, she returned and they started writing her as more of a heroine

The 2 storylines I could never buy were Vicky marrying Marley's rapist and Felicia having an affair with Sharlene's husband.

Felicia would never in a million years do that to a friend. It wasn't just a ONS either. John divorced Sharlene for Felicia.

The fact that Vicky supported and saw what the rape did to Marley would never in a million years allow her to take up with Jake.

r252, agreed. I don't know why male rapists on soaps always become pillars of the community. They did the same thing to Michael Baldwin on Y&R.

R253, Michael was more of a sexual harasser than a rapist. (Yeah, I know...it's not that much different.)

What I loved about Bill Bell is that he'd play his beats with his villains and most often they'd go off to jail or fall to their death (Cricket's rapist Derek; that guy was smmmmoookin' but Bill wasn't going to redeem him).

Michael got out of jail, gave a kidney to Danny, which helped convince Chris to forgive him.

It was a definite departure for Bell to do that -- redeem Michael, but he did it this time.

r254 - Michael was a rapist AND a murderer. Do you need a refresh?

We have to keep posting. I want to make sure that we out post the GL thread. They're all smug over there. We need to show them that AW rocks.

Another World was such a behemoth of the soaps in the 1970s. It was the ultimate soap, the perfect marriage of artistic integrity and success as a product. General Hospital is to blame for what happened happened to soaps, in particular Gloria Monty. The tragedy is, it was Harding Lemay's protege Doug Marland who wrote those classic stories for Monty's GH that changed daytime forever, ultimately for the worst.

Susan Sullivan was one of the "blondes" on AW. Lemay didn't understand why all the blondes were good and the brunettes were bad. But he was enamoured by Susan Sullivan and Bev Penberthy. Bev reminded him of his wife and Susan just elevated the material. I liked her portrayal better than Barcroft's. Barcroft was emotionless. Susan was a revelation.

Thanks you for the info about Susan Sullivan. Please tell me about her character Lenore? Was she at all similar to Jensen Buchanan's Vicky?

R259

Not R258...I was just a little kid when Lenore was on but she was the antithesis of Vicky.

I remember Lenore as an elegant and refined blonde. Very graceful and well mannered. The polar opposite of guttersnipe Vicky.

IIRC she was married to John Randolph.

Lenore was nothing like Vicky. She was a strong, sophisticated career woman. LeMay wrote a great romance for her and Robert Delaney.

To the haters, Another World did become a shell of its former self at the end, but boy did it have a long run of great writing and great acting. That's what was important.

Here's a wonderful clip of Susan Sullivan recounting her days as Lenore on Another World and why she prefers the daytime format for drama over primetime. She is so beautiful and elegant.

At r263, listen to what Sullivan says at the 11:50 minute mark, about the unconventional looking cast of Another World and how it served the show.

R262, was "The Red Swan" Donna Swajeski's first storyline that you didn't write?

R257 I had mentioned that paradigm shift in that GH produced.Marland got the ball rolling but Falken Smith really brought things to another level.Fallen Smith went to Days and laid the foundation for that soap.AW was very influenced by Days thanks to NBC suits interference. It made the soap less distinct. Even Bill Espy looked like he belonged on Days and not AW during his second run.

DADDY!!!!!!

Here's Donna making a damn fool of herself in front of Matthew. Cecile revels in her humiliation!

[quote]The fact that Vicky supported and saw what the rape did to Marley would never in a million years allow her to take up with Jake.

I see this view expressed a lot but i've never really agreed. Vicky knew and loved Jake much longer than she knew Marley. Vicky was a selfish bitch who always put herself first -- that mellowed in her time on the show, for sure, but it was an essential part of her nature. And Marley forgave Jake, so why couldn't Vicky?

I completely agree with you about John and Felicia. Felicia would never have done that to Sharlene. The only saving grace of that story was that it gave Linda Dano and Anna Holbrook some great material to play -- and even won Holbrook an Emmy.

I was just a wee thing when Susan Sullivan played Lenore, but I remember really liking her. She was involved with Robert Delaney when I was watching and they made a charming pair. I liken her to Elizabeth's Hubbard's Althea on The Doctors -- very cool and contemporary compared to other soap heroines of that era.

I swear I remember Lenore living in a home or apartment that had the front door on one level and then you'd walk down a flight of steps to the living room ... but it was all open. I also think she lived with her mother. Or at least her mother was in town, so there were nice intergenerational scenes.

Which one was Lenore - the girl on the right or the left? I know one of them was called Pat.

Pat's on the right.

The woman on the left doesn't look like Susan Sullivan to me. Could be the angle.

The real life nephew of Pat posts on DL. I'm surprised he hasn't joined in the discussion.

[quote]I see this view expressed a lot but i've never really agreed. Vicky knew and loved Jake much longer than she knew Marley. Vicky was a selfish bitch who always put herself first -- that mellowed in her time on the show, for sure, but it was an essential part of her nature. And Marley forgave Jake, so why couldn't Vicky?

This.

Plus it was gross stupidity that the writers had Jake rape Marley in the first place. I don't think that character would ever have raped Marley but for the fact that some suit at NBC said "Hey, let's have Jake rape Marley. Remember how that worked at GH?"

Are Cecile de Poulignanc and Donna Love considered Datalounge soap opera royalty?

Luke on GH was a rapist,Tony DiMera (it was later revealed that it was Andre who did ut)was a rapist on Days as was Todd on OLTL and the rapist as anti-hero was exceptable in the genre.Jake was a cunt but rape was a plot point that was unfortunately excepted.

I loved the chemistry between Cass and Cecile especially in the 80s.The interplay between the characters was punched up by the actors.Nancy and Stephen had some serious chemistry together.Then again I thought he had chemistry with almost anyone.

The 'Take Me Away to Another World' maxim completely destroyed Irna Phillips and Harding LeMay's concept that made the show so brilliant. The title was about striving for someone beyond, something often unattainable and unknowable, fighting against your own circumstances - be it socially, or in matters of the heart. When AW made the sentiment into something positive, something that alludes to your lover fulfilling your hopes and dreams, it turned AW into a piece of garbage and the ratings certainly reflected this hideous era:

Irna Phillips' original mantra for the show was: "We do not live in this world alone, but a thousand other worlds." The title is so deep and thought provoking. It's possibly the best soap opera title ever conceived.

From the time I started watching in 1988 (until around 1996), I thought Jake and Vicky were the best embodiment of the "We do not live in this world alone" concept. Jake was one of the best "nose placed against the shop window, everything I want in full view, but I can't quite reach it" characters in anything I've ever seen or read.

To be fair, AWs ratings shit the bed before they changed to the new theme. It went from pulling an 8.6 rating and tied for first in '77-'78,

to a 7.5 rating, ('78-'79),

7.1 rating ('79-'80),

and a 5.1 rating in tenth place ('80-'81).

So they lost 40% of their viewers between 1978 and 1981, and really never recovered.

I loved Jake's apartment. Remember that video he was working on that we got to see a thousand different times during the "Who Shot Jake?" storyline?

There was an annoying ballerina character who was always after Sam during that period too. I wanted someone to shoot her, frankly.

My sister is named after Amanda Cory.

If Vicky Wyndham ever left the show AW would be

Another World

Starring

Linda Dano

as

Felicia Gallant

That character has no ties to any of the main families. How could she get top billing?

Because Linda IS Pat Stevens.

I couldn't stand Felicia's adopted daughter Jenna and the way she always antagonized Lorna, Felicia's REAL daughter. There was one scene I remember after Lorna's rape, where Jenna implied she brought it on herself. Luckily, Felicia cussed her out for being such a stupid, insensitive little bitch.

It was interesting to compare Ada and Rachel's relationship to Mona and Erica's on AMC, since they were based on the same source (the original bible to AMC, which Agnes used for her AW work). Mona was such a pushover, but Ada didn't take shit from her kids. Erica was so much bigger than life than Rachel, but a pure creation of fantasy in that respect - she never seemed to evolve, whereas Rachel almost certainly matured and had a more interesting arc.

Jenna was a "beginning of the end" symptom, R284. I hated her.

R273

I have to disagree that Jake's raping Marley was for naught.

This was one of the many pieces laid as the foundation of the fantastic Who Shot Jake storyline.

With that story every single piece was woven in perfectly giving each character a true motive.

It was a masterfully crafted story that really played out over months.

I loved the "Who Shot Jake?" storyline. One of the best of early 90s daytime.

(It turned out to be Marley, right?)

IOW, sacrifice character for story. Spoken like a true suit and idiot plotter, R287.

R288

No, Paulina was the shooter.

That's right, R290. Thanks. And then, very quickly after that, Cali Timmons' Paulina was gone.

What was the name of the video Jake was shooting at the time? It played over and over and over again.

When was "Who Shot Jake?" exactly? I missed a lot of it because the idea of Jake raping anyone was so ridiculous. And ATWT was so good then, IIRC.

Cali Timmons was hot but not as hot as Joanna Going.She seemed to be the kind of girl that was very friendly with the male hierarchy.I was never really impressed with her where ever she went.She comes from a well connected Canadian family yet doesn't carry herself like someone who was to the manor born.I'll take a Judi Evans over her any day of the week.

Joanna Going was very pretty but extremely dull. Cali Timmons had a very interesting quality that was never fully put to use on either of the soaps she was on.

Carl Hutchins and his penchant for cunnilingus:

Didn't that Aussie Hussy marry into European royalty or money? Quite impressive for someone whose greatest claim to fame was Aussie Z list sci-fi film called Turkey Shoot.I did enjoy Carmen Duncan but she was rather affected for an Aussie BUT less so than VW.Carmen did age terribly though.

Joanna Going married Dylan Walsh. He was on Nip/Tuck.

They were together a long time but have now divorced.

She's now on a really great show called Kingdom. She plays the ex-wife of GL's Frank Grillo. They both still look great.

Her acting has improved.

Joanna Going was so delightful in Inventing the Abbots. I wish hers had been a bigger part.

Joanna Going appeared as a soap actress on MAD MEN who wanted to fuck Megan Draper.

[quote]Anne Heche shared an unusual, almost telepathic, relationship with her double, Debbon Ayer. "Our minds were so tuned into the way the other was thinking," says Heche. "We knew all the technical things so well." Ayer was Heche's double for a year and a half. "That was just a blessing," Heche says. "That was the key to doing it because you can't act by yourself."

[quote]Heche played the twins longer than anybody else, 1987-1991, and reveals that, in the beginning, "It took a long time for everyone to get used to me — the cast and the audience. I never had a problem thinking people hated me; you're fed to an audience every day. Eventually they got used to me, but it took two years." The most intense period of her tenure as the twins began in 1989, when the writers sent Marley away for six months and she had time to work on the twins as two complete, separate characters, which allowed for the reintroduction of, Heche says, "a new Marley, not the buttoned-up-to-the-top woman. The new Marley was a complete person, not just the opposite of Vicky."

What kind of name is "Heche," anyway? Belgian?

It really is a shame daytime soaps are pretty near gone in this country. As Susan Sullivan pointed out, and as other actors (Heche, Julianne Moore, etc.) have expressed, they were a great learning ground for actors, having to develop and explore nuances in their characters every day. And when they found that character's groove, damn, they could blow you away.

As somebody else here said, we remember these characters so vividly, they came into our lives nearly every day for years, so they're like family and friends.

It's sad and frustrating that that quality, that experience is gone and that future generations will likely never get to experience it.

Oh my god, Linda Dano just posted this video on her FB page of her bumping into a castmate on the street - GUESS WHO?! LOL!!! I am such a Mary because I am crying right now:

For real, R303. Me Mary, too. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Dip me, R303.

My understanding is the show was conceived as a sister show to As the World Turns, hence the name Another World. Irna Phillips initially envisioned Bay City being fairly close to Oakdale and intended some cross over of the characters.

However, in 1964, the CBS line-up was full and they didn't want the show. So P&G started courting NBC and they bought the show.

While being on different networks killed the chance for crossovers, in the first few weeks after its debut, Bay City characters made reference to going to Oakdale.

Then, a few years later when Agnes Nixon was the headwriter of both Guiding Light and Another World, she had the characters of Mike Bauer and his young daughter Hope move to Bay City for a year. Mike became involved with Pat Matthews. He stayed in town for about a year, then left for good.

Fun fact: Gary Pillar, who played Mike Bauer at that point, returned to the show a decade later to replace Ted Shackleford as Raymond Gordon. By that point, Pillar had changed his stage name to Gary Carpenter.

I hated how they sent four integral Another World characters to As the World Turns. I wouldn't have minded if it had been minor characters, for instance, Toni or Lila. But Jake McKinnon did NOT belong there.

They sent Jake because Eplin's last contract with AW had a play or pay clause. P&G had to continue to pay him after AW ended, but they also had the right to move him to another show.

The other AW characters who came to ATWT really just passed through, not counting the ghost Vicky storyline. Lila, Cass, Donna, and Marley only made short appearances.

Really, the most annoying thing about the AWers on ATWT was that Hogan Sheffer stole the ghost Vicky storyline from a movie.

Oh, I understand now r308! Thank you for clarifying that. It was bothering me for 15 years. Jake would have surely been a better fit on Guiding Light though? Another World and ATWT occupied the same timeslot. Yet many fans would tune CBS after AW ended at 3pm to catch GL.

r178, Lemay did work as a consultant on ABC soaps in the 90s. He was on JFP's team while she was at OLTL, and has gone on record as saying she was one of his favorite producers to work with. There was an interview where someone asked him if he heard about the infamous Frankie Frame murder, and he said he hadn't but that he didn't agree with that kind of violence being used for sensationalism.

Again if Vicky Wyndham left AW for any reason top billing would be reverted to Linda Dano

Another World

Starring

Linda Dano

as

Felicia Gallant

I don't understand why as that character has no blood-ties to any of the tent-pole families in Bay City

Keep plinking that one note, R311.

R303

OMG! I'm smiling and weeping at the same time watching that.

Honest to God I believe Linda Dano is the only soap star that is universally loved and that I have never even heard a blip of negativity about.

I just adored Felicia, Cass and Wallingford.

Linda Dano is one of the nicest people ever.

A casting associate at Desperate Housewives brought her in for a role and told her he'd been an intern at AW and she was nice to him. He always remembered that.

Diva Von Dish took Felicia Gallant to town once with a fashion review, slamming her for wearing hats three sizes to big for her head, coats that look like living room drapes and furs that look like the death of entire species.

It was hilarious -- and true.

Less in many things, including fashion, can often be more.

Harding Lemay's book, Eight Years In Another World, is a must read for anyone who remembers AW in the 70s.

Lemay recalls Agnes Nixon coming up to him and Victoria Wyndham at a party and saying she created Rachel and they replied that they were now 're-creating' her.

Snap!

R315

I've always wanted to read that book but last time I checked it was being sold for $200.

Really, R316? I should sell my copy.

Cass is too suave.SS was wearing a plaid shirt and he sounded like a prince what a voice.Stephen had mentioned in an interview that there are people on Days that he worked with on OLTL.Why are there no takers?You'd think that on the four remaining soaps there would be some call for his talents.At least The Following hired him and his late soap wife to reprise their marriage.Someone is an AW fan at The Following.

$9.99 for a Kindle copy.

Read Mr. Lemay's first memoir as well, "Inside, Looking Out."

No, Vicky Hudson married her sister's therapist...not the rapist. Damn typos.

R318

SS played Susan Seafoth Hayes brother on DOOL. I guess he could return there.

I doubt he really wants to return to soaps. He has worked steadily since AW went off. He's done acting and voice over work.

In that clip he tells Dano he has a project he wants to talk to her about. Wonder what it could be?

Huh. I might have to pick it up on Kindle. I'd seen $100 for the hardback, too.

Have been scoping out used bookstores for that since before AW was cancelled.

Linda Dano was out in NYC recently getting video for a new website and.....

.....runs into Stephen Schnetzer (Cass)!

Whoops, I know. I didn't see R303. Sorry!

[quote] Diva Von Dish took Felicia Gallant to town once with a fashion review, slamming her for wearing hats three sizes to big for her head, coats that look like living room drapes and furs that look like the death of entire species.

I always wondered who Diva von Dish was.

Marlena Delacroix, who was always illustrated as a trendy fashion-forward type, ended up being Connie Passalaqua, who was a really great journalist, but as homely as the day was long.

Wasn't Felicia Gallant supposed to be based on Jacqueline Susann? From what I remember about Felicia's novels, they were absolute trash but a 'respectable' publishing house like Cory saw fit to take them on.

Diva Von Dish wasn't fit to lick DL regular Ivana Kipling's stilettoes.

What was interesting about the whole Lorna as Felicia's long lost daughter story was that they didn't like each other at all. It wasn't like there was this mystical connection between them. Even when the truth was revealed, there was always a reserved relationship there. It was all very true to life and not particularly sentimental. They were both stubborn bitches and always fought against the other's attitude.

Ivana Kipling! I remember her. Didn't she die?

Awesome clip, R329. Thanks! That's some great acting too

I once asked someone who worked with Alicia Coppola why he didn't try to seduce her.He said that she was attractive but the thought hadn't crossed his mind.Then again that person liked Asian guys.

That being said she wasn't much of an actress back then.She did a good job with Linda BUT Linda was that good.Like SS she could make almost anyone look good.

"The role of Vicky McKinnon is temporarily being played by Cynthia Watros"

Wonderful Mac/Iris exchange in this clip. She was so manipulative with her "Oh, Daddy!" routine. I would love to see the scenes where they fought. Apparently the majority of 70s episodes are laying at the bottom of the Hudson River :-(

If you study the history of soap opera ratings, Another World was riding high in the 1970s, concurrently with As the World Turns. It's last high rating was the 1977-78 season where it was at Number 2 for the last time, rating at 8.6 - and then, a year later for the 1978-79 season, something happens and Another World plunged to 7.5, down to 8th place in the ratings (from 2nd). Note that Harding LeMay left in 1979. By 1980, it was rated 10th out of 13 soaps. It never again broke the top five. What the HELL happened? Was this solely due to Harding LeMay's departure?

R335 The ratings started to slide during LeMay tenure.

ABC was coming on strong with more glitz, barely clothed young people and their notorious rape storyline.

The other soaps were looking like a dinosaur in comparison.

But also LeMay was starting to fall asleep at the wheel, repeating certain storylines and reworking other plots.

The ratings started to fall across all NBC soaps, as the youth movement started its shift on the landscape.

NBC started feeling the pressure to get with it. So they boldly decided to expand AW to NINETY minutes!

That was the start of the decline. though it fairness because of ABC strength with the youth storyline, it started before that.

But also LeMay started to run out of ideas.

Oh my god, that was IT!!!! The 90 minute format ruined AW's fortunes forever. Thank you so much for reminding me. Oh god, what a tragic miscalculation.

For those who are interested in reading Harding LeMays' books, you might want to check with your local library. Mine has one of them in stock & the other is available to borrow through the Link Plus system that my library subscribes to.

No it was the rise of GH.For better or worse that was becoming the soap everyone would follow.Especially the young demographic that Monty courted.AW tried to adapt and become a baby Days(which was formed by former GH head writer Pat Falken Smith to be GH like).It never really stuck.The whole Mary Page Keller/Thomas Ian Griffith romance was almost like a poor man's Bo and Hope.

R339 that is what I said at R336

ABC soaps (General Hospital was an ABC soap) came on strong with tremendous strength, and all the others soaps felt they had to step it up

AW plan was the 90 minute format

Extremely rare video of Alice #2 Susan Harney

No video has existed until now.

Both Paul Rauch and Harding LeMay preferred this Alice (Susan Harney) feeling Jacqueline Courtney was a horrible actress,

They felt Jacqui couldn't act her way out of a paper bag.

Preferring Susan Harney Alice interpretation better.

See link below

Courtney was very--old fashioned looking. Harney looked more contemporary. I think she was underrated.

The switch to 90 minutes was a bad idea, and it happened at the worst possible time, when the show was really running completely out of gas from the stories it had lived on for so long.

AND Lemay was very, very late in his run, and out of ideas.

AND a number of people from the AW writers' team, including Douglas Marland, left at the same time (with Marland among those finding great success on their own).

AND the ABC youth movement was starting to gain traction.

P&G has just always been a stupid company that never understood the creative aspects of their shows. They ran AW, ATWT and GL into the ground at the end, but they were really no more smart about them then - just luckier, more often than not.

Remember that in most of the country Another World was General Hospital's timeslot competitor. As more and more people tuned into the GH, AW couldn't hold on. Lemay didn't run out of ideas, he was stretched thin with For Richer For Poorer/Lovers and Friends and then the 90 minute AW. He also became very paranoid during this time and lost trust in Rauch and thought that everyone was out to get him.

NBC also didn't give FRFP enough time to catch on, because by then soaps were turning to teens and young 20s characters. Lemay's literate drawing room style is not a way to start a soap. You need plot plot plot. Murders, rapes, and kidnappings and all those things that Lemay loathed to get people excited enough to tune in.

Lemay's protégée, Doug Marland, took what was so great about Lemay and added a plot. One of the reasons why I never thought Marland was the god of soaps, that everyone else does. Marland is basically Lemay and Bill Bell rolled into one writer.

R340 I've said the very same thing in this thread before AND in other P and G threads as well.BTW I never saw your post as I was responding to the person asking the question and did some other things before I completed the post.

Starting about 1978, ABC soaps just had a cool factor about them that the NBC soaps completely lacked. There was buzz about ABC soaps in the national consciousness. It was hip to watch the ABC soaps. College students openly admitted to watching soaps, something that perviously was considered a housewife's medium.

Yes, greater emphasis on younger characters certainly was a large part of it. But ABC soaps also started to have characters you just didn't see on soaps before that -- lovable rogue and pimp Marco Dane, antihero Luke Spencer, wise carnival con woman Myrtle Lum, hillbilly pimp Billy Clyde Tuggle. The thing about characters like this was they weren't black and white. They had shade of gray to them that allowed the audience to enjoy them, to root for them. You didn't "love to hate" these characters, you just loved them, despite what they did to the "good" characters on the show.

Another factor is that the ABC soaps starting doing multiple scenes within each act. Before that, soaps were known for doing one, maybe two scenes in an act (each segment between commericals). Sometimes scenes could last for for 8 or 10 minutes. But ABC started doing three or four scenes to an act. So there seemed to be much more action happening in each episode.

Iris and Vivien's complex relationship.

IRIS: I hope your mother doesn't need you on the farm again. VIVIEN: They've got a hired girl now. IRIS: Well, I hate to be selfish Vivien but - I want you with me. VIVIEN: Thank you, Ma'am.

"One of the reasons why I never thought Marland was the god of soaps, that everyone else does. Marland is basically Lemay and Bill Bell rolled into one writer."

Funny, I think that combination is pretty much why Marland is the god of soaps.

I saw somebody refer to Beverlee McKinsey as "the ivory Eartha Kitt" - made me chuckle!!!

How on earth did David Hedison end up on AW? He did take it seriously though.He did his research on the characters on the show and the characters when he got the gig.DH also developed a quick friendship with Aussie Hussy,Carmen Duncan.He deserves credit for not sleep in walking through the job.Then again this wasn't a Bell soap no matter what head writer or producer was fucking it up.

[quote]this wasn't a Bell soap

For which we were always very, very thankful.

[quote]Another factor is that the ABC soaps starting doing multiple scenes within each act. Before that, soaps were known for doing one, maybe two scenes in an act (each segment between commericals). Sometimes scenes could last for for 8 or 10 minutes. But ABC started doing three or four scenes to an act. So there seemed to be much more action happening in each episode.

That was one of the biggest mistakes that soaps ever made. One scene per act made the show feel like it was moving and more happened in the episode when it was one scene one act.

R352

ABC's decision to make shorter scenes has only gotten worse.

Scenes don't resonate when they only last 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

I watched the Emmy reels for next week's Best Actress.Maura West is an amazing actress but her reel is so damned short compared to the others.

Just when she'd be getting somewhere the scene changed. This makes for a very choppy experience.

ABC Daytime destroyed the genre. I mourn P&G soaps, the best the genre has ever been or will be.

[quote]ABC Daytime destroyed the genre.

This.

I meant: He did his research on the characters on the show and the actors who played them when he got the gig.

I was at the age and demographic to appreciate and watch GH in the late 70s.At least their demographic was widening a bit.That being some of the attempts to modernize EON,GL and AW didn't work that well.Just because something worked on GH didn't mean it would work on a P & G soap.AW became far more annoying when it became a baby Days.There were still good actors in it BUT one Days was more than enough.

The reason why one act/once scene worked is because each scene followed traditional scene structure. There was a beginning. A middle. And an end. In those days most soaps didn't do teasers. So many shows would do one scene, dissolve into a second scene which would end in a cliffhanger. They would pick up from that scene, play out and repeat the process through the show.

The PG shows did a traditional one scene, beginning, middle and end and the next act would be a whole other scene.

Many soaps would go through an entire day in one episode. This is why I bought the argument that multiple scenes cut throughout the show was better. Now it's accepted practice and the audience really couldn't sit through those 5/6 minute scenes. But those are types of scenes that built character and moved story.

Ada and Mary would sit and have cake and talk about their problems. It's the reason why people still remember that dish towel that Ada used to have on her shoulder. Those touches disappeared.

[quote] No video has existed until now.

Uploaded on Mar 17, 2007

It's tragic how so many viewers simply abandoned Another World in 1978, in their droves. What a remarkable decade it had been for America's most immersive artform, the soap opera.

The decline of Another World and the American soap opera of quality and depth can be traced to the advent of Star Wars in popular culture, which changed movies forever. The need for blockbuster spectacle trickled down to soaps. Even the biggest soap star of the time was named 'Luke'. None of it was a coincidence. The year after Star Wars changed the world, Another World declined in the ratings- maybe if it had been set in outer space, as the title alluded, things might have been different!

R361, you may well be right. Thank you.

We can blame ABC Daytime and Star Wars types of "big events" for the decay of soaps, and those may have contributed to a decline in quality. But the reality is that the ratings for daytime dramas across the board were declining since their peak in the mid-60s. There were fewer and fewer housewives to watch soaps as more women entered the workforce, and that was their primary audience.

What General Hospital did in the late 70s/early 80s bumped the ratings up because they introduced a new demographic to soaps, with younger viewers. And while they were successful at it, the ratings still didn't reach the heights of the mid-60s. Plus, they did change the way they told the stories to pull in that younger viewer. (And it was around this time that teenagers became a much more important demographic for advertisers than 45+, so it was a big deal for the networks). After that initial bump in viewers, audience totals leveled off in the mid/late 80s. Then in the 90s, as cable became more common and most of the population had more viewing choices, the decline started again. Not just for the daytime programming, but for news and evening programming as well.

British soaps air in primetime and get respectable ratings of 8-10 million per night. Why won't the United States put their daytime shows on at night?

Can someone start a thread on a BOMBSHELL Kate Mulgrew just dropped

Title

Kate Mulgrew real-life pregnancy written into her storyline on Ryan Hope but gave the baby for adoption!

Message

It doesn't make any sense. She had all the resources to raise the child as a single parent.

A week later she realized she made a mistake and begged the agency to to give her back the baby

They refused

She spent over 20 years trying to get her baby back

[quote] British soaps air in primetime and get respectable ratings of 8-10 million per night. Why won't the United States put their daytime shows on at night?

Rituals the show was a test run. This was during the heyday of the 80s when soaps were big business

It flopped as Americans would rather watch game shows or entertainment magazine shows than soaps in that time period.

r366, what are you talking about?! Dynasty and Dallas were primetime soaps. So why didn't they move some daytime ones over to primetime? WHY?

R367 Rituals was a test run to see if it would makes sense

It was a new soap that was syndicated. The syndication saw how food soaps performed in the 7 to 8 PM slot in Europe. They wanted to replicate that format.

Networks were watching closely, because if ratings were good, they might slot some of their daytime soaps in that 7 to 8 PM slot.

But the show FLOPPED so they gave up on the idea

Though some stations scheduled Edge of Night at 2AM and the ratings were strong. But not enough to keep the show afloat.

They tested daytime shows at night several times as one-shot deals. Heck, back in the 60s they tried to spin Lisa from ATWT into her own night-time soap.

You've hit the nail on the head without realizing it, r369.

The Brit soaps are mostly about working class to middle class people. Somewhere along the way American soaps became stories about multimillionaires.

R361 I understand your point but I dont necessarily buy Star Wars influencing soaps in that way.That Love on The Run storyline on GH in 1980 was relatively down to earth.Pat Falken Smith's Ice Princess storyline in 81 was basically bringing Bond films to soap opera.That was the story line that really brought an over the top unreality to soaps.That happened a few years after Star Wars and the influence there was purely Bond.

NBC gave Another World a shot at primetime and it flopped.Summer Desire was AW's stab at nighttime and the ratings did not merit another shot.

One of Cecile's return visits in the 90s. If a man did this to a woman, he'd be charged with rape.

R365

I saw Kate on CBS Sunday Morning.

Why does it make no sense to you? She was 21, dumped by her lover,and her career was going gangbusters when she wound up pregnant.

She put the child up for adoption. I know she regretted it and spent 20+ years finding her but who's to say?

They both went on to happy lives and then they reunited.

I did find the scene of Mary Ryan talking to her newborn very sad now knowing it was taped just days after KM gave up her baby.

I'll definitely be reading her memoir. I adored Ryan's Hope.

RITUALS flopped because it was poorly written and produced. The show was a mess.

If anyone is interested ... a young Anna Stuart filling in for Maeve Kinkead as Vanessa Chamberlain on GL. Apparently, it was this temp gig that led P&G to keep her and employ her at AW as the Vanessa-like Donna Love.

And old-time AW viewers might get a kick out seeing Jennifer Leaks playing opposite her as Vanessa's school girl chum Blanche Bouvier. leaks is best known as AW's Olive Gordon.

Anna Stuart's first scene as Donna when she returned to the show in 87:

Donna and Cecile try to have one another for breakfast:

Where I lived, Rituals aired at 4 p.m., right after the network soaps aired. A friend in another state also watched it at 4 p.m. It may have been intended as a nighttime soap for the 7-8 p.m. time slot, but not every station aired it then.

Rituals did little to grab me. Felt like a mess and seemed to change directions often. Dull characters and seemed unfocused.

Santa Barbara premiered just six weeks before Rituals did. It was also a mess for the first six months, but the characters were exciting and the story did have a focus to keep you involved -- the umbrella story of who killed Channing Jr.

Why does Peter Love have Sally Field's hair?

I'm sorry but Cecile was no match for Donna.

Actually Cecile was every bit of a match for Donna. Donna was all talk, crumbling under daddy's influence the moment he walked back in her life. Cecile never crumbled.

That said, I adore Anna Stuart and regret she had writers who never really gave Donna the backbone she really needed. The Philece Sampler years were just horrendous to this character.

Thanks to these threads, I'm re-watching old AW. I have to admit that Philece Sampler seemed wildly, wildly out of place as Donna. She played Donna like a perky overmedicated substitute teacher. I'm pretty sure it was the 1988 episode where Sharlene confronts Rachel about Janice's death.

Sampler would have made a better Nicole

Jim Poyner appears on Days this week

Yes, where I lived, Rituals was also a late afternoon soap -- 4pm (Eastern time). It was horrible.

I still think a well-written soap airing every night, say 9pm, could still work. Of course, the key being "well-written."

I like Philece but she was better on Days than she was on AW and Rituals.I stick by what I said earlier and think she was miscast as Donna.Then against Anna was so damn good that almost anyone after her would be a letdown.

I agree, R387, she was miscast as Donna. I thought Philece was great as Renee on Days. Renee had more story to tell, her death was premature but in Salem, that's just the breaks.

Didnt the actor who played Adam have the worst facial expressions in the history of soaps.He looked constipated,amused,irritated and in the process of receiving surprise anal at times.He lacked any subtlety at all.Ed Fry was the epitome of stagey acting.These days he looks like Stephen Moyer and has left The Drake Hogestyn School of Bad Acting.

Ed Fry as Adam Cory. I'd forgotten about him. Very forgettable character. Ed was an average actor; clearly did nothing with the material he was given to make Adam stand out.

I forgot. Where did Adam Cory come from?. I remember being surprised that Mac had a nephew. Prior to that, I don't recall any talk of an extended family for Mac.

As far as Ed Fry goes, he sure came across as gay on screen. But apparently he was straight. As I recall, he was married to much older woman.

There was a Neal Cory briefly before Adam Cory appeared

Neal Cory. Another forgettable character.

Why did Mac get this extended family in the mid 1980s? It was during one of those (many) dull periods when many storylines were snoozefests.

Neal Cory was played by Patty Lupone's brother. Also played Roger Thorpe's lawyer on Guiding Light off and on for years.

Adam and MJ might have been the blahest couple in the history of soaps.She looked like one of the fraus that watched the show. Together they had all the sizzle of a burnt steak.

Ed Frye has been married to actress/producer Janice Doskey since 1994. She's only four years older that he is according to IMDB.

The reference to being married to a much older woman comes from his storyline on As The World Turns where his character of Larry McDermott married the considerably older Susan Stewart. Sorry I confused that.

R395

Imdb lists them as both being born in 1959

I'm still dead, you cunts!

On As the World Turns, Donna and Marley were written as straight up villains because the audience wasn't familiar with them, being Another World characters. They always had Marley standing behind Donna like her personal henchwoman and they were used as a plot device to tear Jake and Molly's family apart.

Terrific interview with Robert Kelker Kelly telling some wonderful stories about AW!!!!

[quote]Anne Heche was brilliant, but she was nuts.

[quote]I go onto the catwalk and light a cigarette and I hear on the far side of the studio where they were lighting a scene a crash and a scream, "Props!! I need more fucking props!" - It was Connie Ford. She worked from a standpoint of being a trained actress from the neighborhood playhouse. She believed that he character's life came forth when she was doing business. She had to have things to do, props to play with - and she scared the shit out of me when I heard that scream!

So cool, R399. That dishtowel may be a sarcastic mention here, but it was a way for her to bring Ada to life.

400 messages - wow! Another World fans should be very proud. This show meant a lot to millions.

R401 MARY!

Please, we are legion. The P&G show threads go on forever here - we've had at least 8 fill up in the last year or so. Not bad at all for shows that have been off the air between 5 - 25 years!

RKK's first run on AW was fantastic.He had such great chemistry with Amanfs Ferguson.His turn on Days might have been the best recast on soap history.His second run on AW wasn't as great.Which led to GH which he was better on than AW the second time. His recent returns to GH have been pure camp.He plays it so over the top on Gh that his return to AW made him seem like Olivier in comparison.

Why didn't RKK play Sam when he returned to AW?

The AW tribute montage using the Streisand song should appeal to any Mary! who misses Bay City:

It seems that the brilliant show killer JFP might have come up with the idea for a new character for RKK.The interview hints at that possibility.

Robin Strasser's Twitter had a post on April 1 saying it was the 50th - yes, 50th - anniversary of her first show as Rachel on AW.

R399

Really nice article.

Loved RKK anecdotes about Douglas Watson. Dear Lord! I adored DW. I wish he'd have expounded on Heche's craziness.

However, he glossed over why DOOL became a nightmare. He was making pseudo passes at the underage actresses. They let him go due to parental complaints

In the end he married one.

r407 Either Strasser is getting a bit senile or she was playing an April Fools joke on her Twitter followers.

Rachel first appeared in 1967, not 1965. So, 2015 would be 48 years since Strasser started, not 50.

It should be noted that Alice Barrett (Frankie) was FIRED in part to free up money for RKK

That's not RKK's fault R410.

RKK was fired because of Kristain Alfonso. Fucking Miriam Parrish didn't help things, but Alfonso wanted Reckell back because she knew that it would unite the fans behind Bo and Hope and thus cement her position on the show and her very nice salary. Remember Alfonso returned to Days from primetime. With RKK in the role, many fans preferred Bo and Billie to Bo and Hope. Some say that she even got Lisa Rinna to join her in this crusade, because RKK was known to get a little physical during love scenes. Alfonso also got an actor fired when it was discovered that he did gay porn.

Strasser's first appearance as Rachel was in December of 1967.

[quote]It seems that the brilliant show killer JFP might have come up with the idea for a new character for RKK.The interview hints at that possibility.

The interview is two years old.

[quote] Alfonso also got an actor fired when it was discovered that he did gay porn.

who?

Jeff Griggs (aka Tony Sinatra) was the gay porn actor Alfonso got fired.

NSFW:

thanks

The anorexic Kristian Alfonso didn't need any help when it came time to rid Days of RKK.He was rather randy towards the leading ladies and that is what sealed his fate.KA didn't like areckell at first but grew to like him.Reckell seemed like a saint compared to RKK.In addition Reckell wasn't going after jailbait on the show.Columbia/Sony/Bells/Corday love to leak shit about why someone was canned.Some of it true and some of it not so true.

I wonder if he tried to fuck Amanda Ferguson at AW?She is a very attractive woman but seems like she has a clenched pussy.Maybe it was open for business during RKK's first run at AW.

I hate Bo and Hope no matter who plays Bo (though I've only ever seen Reckell in the role). I hate Bo and Hope because I hate Hope. She doesn't look quite human to me, but more like a Hope doll. I hate her as much as I hate Jennifer. When they are in a scene together -- something I rarely encounter, as I only watch the gay scenes (thanks, Mr. Fixit) -- I change the channel immediately.

Does Kristian Alfonzo eat at Chick Filet?

KA used to be so gorgeous when she started on Days.She was a bit heavier and carried that weight well.RKK and PR were both quite good on Days.RKK with Lisa Rinna had some great chemistry together.

Tying into AW it was a debacle when they tried to replicate the Bo Hope dynamic.One thing Mary Page Keller was too thin to have been a pseudo Hope.The chemistry with her costar was decent enough but not like Bo and Hope's. Ironic because she eventually married him!

Kristian can be a piece of work, but she doesn't eat a Chick Filet. She and Reckell hated each other for years. He used to call her fat in the 80s. She likes the guy who play Aiden and has been throwing shade at Reckell via twitter. She thinks Day is a good gig and likes the reduced schedule and didn't mind a slight pay cut. Reckell wasn't having it. Which makes me wonder what he's getting in his new deal.

RKK has a raw sexuality and is a very sexual guy. You get next to him and the sex just pours right off of him. I met him 1993 when he was fucking my neighbor. She always said that he was complicated, but she put up with it because the sex was so fucking good.

[quote]Mary Page Keller was too thin to have been a pseudo Hope.

She must have been anorexic *and* bulimic.

Kristian Alfonso is a huge cunt. Remember the Nelson Branco-Crystal Chappell-KA Twitter war a couple years back? I'm sure she was behind Chappell getting letting go from Days as well.

Daniel Cosgrove, who's currently playing Aiden Jennings on DAYS (Hope's current love interest) should watch his back. The second they bring Peter Reckell back as Bo (which is reportedly in the works), Cosgrove's "days" are numbered. I'm sure Alfonso will be leading the pack to get him side-lined and eventually fired even as the actor was probably a lifesaver for her just a year ago when it looked like PR would never return to the show and Hope was finally getting the semblance of a storyline again with Aiden.

R419, I had no idea she was throwing shade at PR on Twitter and supported the Aiden/Hope pairing. I was simply speculating. How interesting.

IIRC, PR was getting kind of old-looking and boring when he was on last go-around. Maybe she like sexing it up with someone younger and better-looking. The show's endgame is always Bo/Hope, it seems (the entire town of Salem are Bo/Hope fangurls and practically bow down to them and worship at their altar) so I was thinking about that.

[quote] I'm sure she was behind Chappell getting letting go from Days as well.

She doesn't have that type of power

For his part RKK has played opposite several women over the years

Not one of them has ever come to his defense, as he is quite horrible to work with

Not one

Isn't Kristian fucking Daniel as per that blind item? DC is a show killing bad luck charm just the same!;)

This is fun but we need to get back to AW.The overly thin and anorexic Alfonso can throw all the shade she wants at Reckell but he's getting what he wants and she has a pay cut....

Yeah, let's get back to AW. People get very territorial in these threads even though the gossip tends to cut across all the soaps.

A lot of people like the blame NBC for AW's demise, but let's be honest PG didn't really fight for the show. In fact PG has always been weird about it's shows. For instance, they wouldn't sell the Felicia Gallant character to ABC. They wouldn't sell AW to NBC in the 90s or Edge to ABC in the 80s. PG has has lots of footage of these shows just locked away, but won't do anything with it.

I remember the old Media Domain boards. An insider came on there once and described PG's 15 year plan to be out of the soap business. No one believed it at the time, but it all turned out to be true.

R425 They wouldn't sell AW to ABC in the late 90s.They were cutting off their nose to spite their face.Yes NBC wanted to cut out the production company to control the shows and the productions directly.Unfortunately it didn't work out well for them.As for Proctor there are no soaps on.They wanted out of the business.AW could have explored other avenues but they didn't now there are none.

Media Domain

now there's a name I haven't thought of in ages

[quote]Tying into AW it was a debacle when they tried to replicate the Bo Hope dynamic.

I thought Mary Page Keller and Thomas Ian Griffith (Sally and Catlin) actually worked well as middle ground between old-school AW and action-adventure DOOL. They were certainly better actors than Alfonoso and Reckell -- and their story did benefit AW's demos for a time. Of course, I much preferred Cass and Kathleen as the IT couple of that era.

For the record, RKK has been happily married to Miriam Parrish for about 20 years. So all this talk of his corrupting her as a minor is total bull.

I wonder how large RKK's penis is.

RKK is the only example I can come up with of a straight guy who perfected a gay aesthetic in terms of his look.

R428 It was too imitative to work in my opinion. What the Days character had was unique and relatively original as a supercouple.BB was a bad boy but didn't rape anyone unlike a famous anti-hero on GH.

RKK is even gayer on Days and GH than he was on AW.At least the AW characters had some sort of restraint.Stavros on GH has that gay aesthetic and that camp ethos.Sam Fowler was never that camp.

RKK fucked the girl who played Olivia on Another World. RKK, despite his gay aesthetic, loved pussy. But now that I think about it, I could totally see him letting a gay guy blow him... for the experience or just to say that he had done it. He didn't seem to have hangups. With the right breaks, he could have had a bigger career.

Very hilarious GH scene with RKK and Maurice Benard, especially when he stands up and towers over him.

Yum.

RKK was standard attractive in the 80s but by the time he was in his 30s and on Days, he was beautiful. Some men get better with age, he was one of them.

RKK was such the better Bo Brady. It was so obvious. Such amazing chemistry with Lisa Rinna back in the early '90s.

It also makes sense to me that RKK was fucking Olivia (Allison Hossack) behind the scenes. Their characters were involved on the show.

Btw, my friend ran into Sandra Ferguson once at the mall and she was wearing a varsity style jacket (with white leather sleeves) and a huge embroidered "Another World" in that '90s logo font splashed on the back! He said he just about died.

He also ran into Peggy McKay (Caroline, DAYS) in a gas station convenience store once.

[quote]Btw, my friend ran into Sandra Ferguson once at the mall and she was wearing a varsity style jacket (with white leather sleeves) and a huge embroidered "Another World" in that '90s logo font splashed on the back! He said he just about died.

MARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

R438 No one etched AW so SF did some free advertising! It was cool.At least she didn't feel that she was too good for the show.RKK must have had her.How could she resist him?

This is gonna be my Mary! moment, but I loved how Iris (Carmen Duncan) Amanda (Sandy), and Paulina (Cali) looked so much alike. It made that time period of the show really good. Here were Macs three lookalike daughters running around Bay City with Rachel trying to keep them all in check.

RKK has had the same trouble with women at literally every soap he has ever worked on. He's a beautiful and talented hunk but he is a creep.

[quote]Kristian Alfonso is a huge cunt. Remember the Nelson Branco-Crystal Chappell-KA Twitter war a couple years back?

Do you mean that night where a drug-addled Canadian blogger and a drunk soap opera has-been spammed Twitter taking shots at Alfonso, and in the morning the lunatic "reporter" got fired by TV Guide?

Kristian Alfonso is one ice cold fish, it's true, but she doesn't take bullshit and she never said a word about it. Nelson Branco is a mental patient, and Crystal Chappell, while a better actress than Alfonso, has had drama at every soap she's ever done and is now a boozy lush and unemployable, pandering to middle-class lesbians online.

Does Chappell still have her dykey online soap?

[quote]Nelson Branco is a mental patient, and Crystal Chappell, while a better actress than Alfonso, has had drama at every soap she's ever done and is now a boozy lush and unemployable, pandering to middle-class lesbians online.

LOL! Harsh but true.

Fun fact Sandra Ferguson BFF is none other than...

Oscar winner Halle Berry!

They were roommates in Chicago and Sandy got Halle involved in modelling and introduced her to her manager, who became Halle manager.

Vincent Cirrincione

20 years later he still manages both Sandy and Halle

I meant: No one watched AW.

Jokingly of course!

R441 They didn't look alike at all IMO.Sandra and Cali were beautiful I will attest to that.Carmen had a charm about her. An affected Aussie who did a nice job on the show.

R442 After she did the GL gig CC magically became bi.I like her but hate the way she panders to her fan base.Oh and I was happy when Billie and Bo were happening. RKK had nearly no chemistry with CC.

RKK never fucked Sandy.

She hated him according to rumors.

[quote] She hated him according to rumors.

Just like all the other actresses who worked with RKK

Not one actress can say anything nice about him, not one.

Sandra Ferguson's DAYS run was disastrous.

R449

I guess Miriam has nice things to say but that would be it.

RKK behavior on the set borders on sexual harassment.

RKK likes to do his love scenes nude. He's hot and very sexual and likes to make his love scenes look realistic. That's not harassment.

Speaking of Amanda does anyone remember when Stanley Tucci's sister Christine took over the role?I preferred Sandra in every way.Christine had the worst nose job in soap history.Not the worst recast of all time but close.Right up there with Sandra taking over the Felicia Jones role on GH.

One of the current DOOL actors was inappropraitly coming on to the underage daughter of a DOOL actress.

It was outed in those leaked Sony emails. The date was March 2014.

The emails were about how to proceed.

Any ideas?

R454

I remember her. She also was engaged to the actor who played Ryan Harrison.

[quote]RKK likes to do his love scenes nude. He's hot and very sexual and likes to make his love scenes look realistic. That's not harassment.

Yes it is, you idiot.

Ryan Harrison was GORGEOUS. He looked so much like a guy in a 1987 porn that I still watch. He was sexy as fuck.

If RKK wanted to do our nude scenes nude, well, I'd take my pants off, too.

R447

Did CC come out as personally Bi? I thought she was just a str8 actress who became "beloved" by playing a Bi character.

After her role ended she created a series in an attempt to make $$$ and give fans more Otalia in the form of new stories.

R455 There are two Days threads on DL.Only one for AW.Days is one of my favorite soaps of all time BUT it is still on.AW deserves a lot of respect and attention.

I have no idea at all about the actor but the girl he was harrasing is another story altogether.

R461 the actor in question is Freddie Smith.

Robert Kelker Kelly is one of the most sensual actors I've ever had the pleasure to watch. The only actor with the same intensity of Pedro Pascal who was on Game of Thrones last year.

RKK is covered under the hot and/or big cock rule. If he's hot and/or has a big cock it is neither rape nor harassment.

R464 what if one of his leading ladies was a lesbian?

What then?

RKK was so fucking intense and sexual. When he was paired with Lisa Rinna, who was bubbly and light of spirit, it was the most amazing and beautiful thing. Alfonso did not have the same effect.

R464 If an actress is uncomfortable then it is wrong no matter if she is straight, married, single is bi or otherwise. He might be hot but he is a big time fucking creep.

[quote]RKK was so fucking intense and sexual. When he was paired with Lisa Rinna, who was bubbly and light of spirit, it was the most amazing and beautiful thing.

Lisa Rinna was one of several actresses at DAYS who demanded he be fired.

It doesn't matter how hot the guy is, he is a fucking creep and was rightly drummed out of the business after pulling this shit at every single soap he was hired on.

TPTB realized that RKK and Kristian Alfonso had no chemistry, while RKK and Lisa Rinna did.

They toyed with the idea of pairing Kristian with Drake Hogestyn, but then Lisa made it known that she intended to leave once her contract was up.

Since Lisa was leaving, they decided to make overtures towards Peter Reckell. Since RKK would be without a leading lady, as thing with Kristian Alfonso, it made more sense to recreate Bo & Hope with the original actors.

[quote] he is a fucking creep and was rightly drummed out of the business after pulling this shit at every single soap he was hired on.

The only reason why he was hired back at AW, was the hope he could boost the ratings with his popularity,

Hoping his DAYS fans would follow, but they didn't

[quote]Lisa Rinna was one of several actresses at DAYS who demanded he be fired.

I'd rather have his lips on me than hers.

[quote]The only reason why he was hired back at AW, was the hope he could boost the ratings with his popularity,

And because he was a Jill Farren Phelps favorite. She has always shielded him until she couldn't anymore. She was responsible for his hiring at GH, which also went sour (and then went kaput after 9/11).

Jill also tried to avoid firing Michael Muhney at Y&R after a similar scandal.

R472 I'm no fan of Muhney,Yucky and Rested and Sony but the story surrounding Muhney is still totally known.Supposedly he grabbed Hunter King's tits.Who knows what happened there.On the other hand,RKK pissed off every actress he worked with.It is a different situation.

I've always applauded Jill for not being reactionary. She didn't immediately side with women because she was a woman. She listened to each side and made informed decisions. Lots of respect.

Toyed with it, R469? The writers had Hope and John fuck on a submarine while they were both brainwashed!

However how many soaps did JFP ruin? I found it interesting that RKK defended Jill when legions of fans have derided her.Jill still gets hired though..mm

Rinna didn't insist on RKK's firing, Alfonso did.

I think Crystal Chappell played a role too. Wouldn't surprised me since she later backstabbed Grant Aleksander at GL.

Why did TPTB not force Carmen Duncan ix nay her accent when she landed the role of Iris?

Part of her appeal was her accent.Soaps are terrible when it comes to these things. Days had a Brady from Ireland who had an Australian accent.Victor Newman on Y and R is from Canada but has a German accent! The list goes on.

[quote] Why did TPTB not force Carmen Duncan ix nay her accent when she landed the role of Iris?

Because she threatened to do the role in a southern accent

Back to that Anna Stuart talk ... fresh from her GL gig subbing for Maeve Kinkead, Anna made some impressions on the P&G people and she was called into AW to audition for the role of Felicia Gallant (after Jane Elliot turned the role down). They decided on Linda Dano for the role, but loved Stuart so much they created the role of Donna Love just for her.

Does anyone remember when John Hudson worked as a bartender at some club (Mary's maybe? Lol). This would've been circa 1988. He honestly looked the hottest for me during that period. Just sex on a stick. I remember one episode where some ugly old Frame (the one that outbid Rachel for the Frame farm) was making fun of the fact that he wore a beard.

The actor who played Reginald Love always physically repulsed me. I'm not sure what it was, but just thinking about him now literally gives me chills.

I didn't care for Philece Sampler's Donna. It was like a completely different character from the brilliant Anna Stuart creation.

[quote] but loved Stuart so much they created the role of Donna Love just for her.

And that was a non-contract role, the bigger her part grew the more the Love family grew

To introduce Marley Love and step-son Perry Hutchins (RIP)

Trivia question.

Where did Donna live when she first showed up in Bay City?

Another trivia question

What was the hot restaurant in Bay City before Tops?

Donna lived at the Love mansion.

Was the other restaurant Tall Boy's?

I think Tops evolved from "The Top of the Tower" which was THE place back when Rachel first showed up. Rachel was all pissed off the "lady's" menu didn't have prices so she couldn't easily order the most expensive items

So, no one remembers when John Hudson was a hot bartender?

IIRC, John was working at the Frame farm when I started watching.

R487

I can't remember John as a bartender.

I do remember an episode shortly after he returned.

It showed John visiting all the hallmarks of his young life while Bruce Springsteen's "My Hometown" played.

It fit perfectly for the damaged war vet trying to reconnect with his past.

Reading the Kindle version of Eight Years in Another World (probably the third time I've read the book) and it's fascinating.

Harding Lemay may have been straight and married, but he was a bitchy queen when he needed to be. I think he's the real life basis for Iris!

Hank Cheyne was one hot guy.He was one of the hottest things in the late 80s.He has not aged well at all.However he married one of his AW co-stars Missy Hughes and they are still married to this day.

R491, is there some reason that you don't put spaces in between your sentences?

Watching the early 80s eps, somehow had not realized Blaine was married to both Jamie AND Sandy (using hot piece Jerry Grove as a palate cleanser).

Plus she was raped, blackmailed into prostitution, tried for the murder of a man she shot (but didn't kill), miscarried and was driven insane, all within a few short years. Busy gal! No wonder she never had time to condition her hair.

Larry and Clarice were the weirdest couple on the show, and that's saying something for Another World. She was just plain nuts -- a poor man's Karen Black's poor man's Sandy Dennis -- and he seemed perpetually stoned but still managed to solve every crime in Bay City. Poor little Cory spent all his time up in his room coloring. I can't imagine their apartment didn't reek of weed.

Alma Rudder and Buzz Winslow were very believable as brother and sister. Good casting.

Too bad they couldn't have made Perry Hutchins gay. Carl having a gay son would have been a great storyline, plus Bay City had the best selection of hags in all Illinois -- Donna, Felicia, Vicky, Lily Mason, Nancy, Cecile...

Tracy DeWitt didn't own a bra.

Oh, also seems like Blaine would have eventually turned into Something's Wrong with Aunt Diane.

R491

Back when DL first started discussing soaps we had some really good insiders. This was before the fraus showed up.

One of the hottest pieces of gossip (for me at least) was that back in the day Hank Cheyne, Hank's wife and Richard Burgi shared a beach house in LA.

They were all in a relationship together. The visuals alone are almost too hot to imagine.

Richard Burgi is hotter than hell - always has been - and his bi status has been pretty well known for a while.

My friend who worked at the P&G shows as a dresser heard from a costar that Burgi was aggressive with men but liked being submissive around women. Go figure.

I can imagine it.

R496

Burgi was the co-star/lover Anne Heche profiled in her book. She became pregnant and had an abortion.

Then you had Christopher Durham, who was his brother on ATWT, who was having an affair with Jean LeClerc at All My Children but dropped him like a hot potato when Jean tested poz.

R499

You have that backwards.

Le Clerc dropped Christopher once Durham tested Poz.

[quote]She was just plain nuts -- a poor man's Karen Black's

r493 I got a good chuckle out of your comment. Gail Brown, who played Clairce, is the real life sister of Karen Black.

Gail and Karen's birth name was Ziegler. Karen married a man named Black, Gail married a man named Brown. They both took their married names for their stage names.

Gail Brown's Clarice was a ditz, but she was oddly endearing. Rick Porter's (RIP) Larry was sexy in an offbeat kind of way. They made a good, solid couple ... though I was always surprised they lasted as long as they did on the show.

Since I'm the one who mentioned reading the Lemay book, here's what he had to say about Clarice and Gail Brown:

Planned for only two episodes, Clarice was cast without Paul’s consulting me, as was customary with characters intended for brief appearances. Several weeks later, I watched Gail Brown enter Iris’s living room on the arm of her mischievous escort. Wearing a white satin evening gown modeled on those Jean Harlow and Carole Lombard wore in film comedies of the 1930s,

Miss Brown stole the scene from the more accomplished actors for whom it had been written. Introduced by her smirking companion to a dismayed Iris, Clarice warbled, “Hiya, Iris,” and took in the opulent surroundings and her haughty hostess without blinking an eye or missing a beat of her gum chewing.

Character and actress immediately established as inseparable, Gail Brown became a continuing favorite with the viewers, who responded to her, as audiences did decades before to Jean Harlow, with the affection reserved for wayward girls whose hearts are far more dependable than their brains.

As I recall, Clarice didn't even get an exit.

One more bit - Lemay wrote a brief epilogue, mostly about his family that he'd included in the original book. (His daughter had a mental breakdown and his first wife was an alcoholic.)

About AW (the book ends in 1979, when he quits) he says:

“Another World” went off the air in 1999, after thirty-five years, never having regained the ratings it had enjoyed twenty-five years earlier. I seldom watched it unless I was working on it, for Procter and Gamble, in spite of strong objections to what I had written about them in this book, hired me from time to time, for brief periods as headwriter, and longer ones as story consultant for it and other soaps they sponsored.

Except for Vicky Wyndham as Rachel, none of the actors I had written for were still on the show when it ended its run. My cherished friend, Doug Watson died in 1989 of a sudden heart attack while on vacation. Connie Ford died in 1993, Anne Meacham in 2006, and Beverlee McKinsey and Irene Dailey both in 2008.

We had all remained friends after I left the show and it is they who are most vivid in my memory of the years I spent writing for them. I have enormous admiration for actors, since they are hanging out on a limb, working on material that can range from the superb to the mediocre.

I love how Lemay describes Rachel's first meeting Mac onscreen- he wrote that she"settled her restless gaze on him." I always keep meaning to do that with potential bfs.

I was friends for a time with Anne Howard (one of the Nicole Loves) and begged her to give me some backstage gossip. She only gave me one tidbit: that Sandy Ferguson never fucked RKK but definitely had a crush on him and was really pissed at him when he embarked on an affair with a younger, prettier production assistant/intern at the studio.

I really liked Sandy Ferguson as Amanda-she was the perfect physical combination of Douglass Watson and Victoria Wyndham, down to the horsey overbite. I was disappointed, though, that we never got to see Amanda in her young teenage years. Instead we saw an Amanda who was 8 or 9 (Dana Klaboe) be SORAS'd into someone who looked about 17 or 18 at her youngest and ready for the debutante ball. I think of how well Y&R pulled that off with a similar character, Victoria Newman. (Ferguson).

According to "We Love Soaps" Richard Bekins, one of the many Jamie Frames, will be playing a senator on The Good Wife next week.

Burgi's brother was a drummer in the group Rainbow. A friend of mine knew Chuck Burgi I should have asked him all the dirt on Richard. So he was banging Richard and his wife before they got married? Cheyne was so beautiful he must have been the bottom.

Here is one full episode of AW from 1980 that features the original Cecile Depoulignac (Susan Keith) sparring with Gwen Frame (Dorothy Lyman) beginning at the 26:33 mark. Gwen could be a bitch herself at times. Clarice, Blaine, Larry, and Mac are also in this episode as well.

I will be laughed off the page but I teared up a little bit this morning reading this and seeing some clips.

It reminded me of a time when my mother was alive and when we would talk about the story. She really was Rachel, in some ways, and her nemesis was very much like Iris.

Sorry. I know...MARY!

Now you can see why Vicky Wyndham said she never had a storyline ever again once LeMay left

He was the only one who knew how to write for her.

2007 Wyndham interview

One of the things that I loved about Clarice was the way she casually said, "Hiya, Iris," something no one else would dare to try.

That's a damned interesting interview. Thanks, R512.

Yeah, it's one of the few interviews of a soap star that hasn't been done by a soap mag, while a show is on....clearly Wyndham didn't give a fuck about ever coming back and felt free to speak her mind.

Giving you a hug, R510, that was a sweet post about your mom and her nemesis and Rachel and Iris.

I feel the same way about Knots Landing with my mom.

Thanks R516, right back atcha!

We Love Soaps says that May 1 is both the anniversary of Douglass Watson's first air date as Mac, and the day in 1989 that he died.

I'm both R510 and R517, btw. oops...forgot to sign.

R517

I still remember hearing that Douglas Watson died.

I was at my Mom's kitchen table reading the entertainment section of the newspaper.

I knocked me for a loop. Mac represented the ideal father that I never had.

I remember tearing up reading how he died unexpectedly while on vacation.

I've always seen myself as a reckless gambler....

Check out the original actor who played Mac Cory for a year before Doug Watson started. Now THAT'S a re-cast!

Ho Lee Fuk, R521.

Alice and Mac were engaged?

I don't remember that.

Your mother had a nemesis, r510?

I never realized that Watson died on the very anniversary of his first airdate. Weirdly poetic.

Alice and Mac were engaged during the Steven Frame redux story, in which David Canary's Steve forgot George Reinholt's Steve actually loved Alice and loved Rachel instead.

Donna Love lived in Iris' old mansion when she first arrived in Bay City. Then it was rewritten that it was the Love mansion and the Loves were part of Bay City for years before we met them.

Richard Burgi was also supposed to have been one of Doug Marland's foot fetish flings. That's how Burgi was cast on ATWT as Glenn Harrington.

Does the "Doug Marland loved feets" story exist anywhere besides DL?

R524 she did! We had a cunty, gossipy bitch across the street who would tell people my mother and/or my father were cheating on each other.

(My parents had four kids and were too busy being with us to consider an affair.)

She had a raspy voice and was oddly evocative of Iris.

She would also try to flatter us kids (or give candy - seriously) and then try to get info out of us. One of my proudest moments was when I was around the age of eight or so. She asked a few of us neighborhood kids to tell on another neighbor by whispering something we saw.

I leaned in and repeated something I'd seen on AW a few weeks before: "I got your number, lady." She gasped and fluttered off.

Bitches in suburbia do NOT play.

[quote]I leaned in and repeated something I'd seen on AW a few weeks before: "I got your number, lady." She gasped and fluttered off.

That is hilarious, especially coming from someone so young. Well done!

R512, thanks for the interesting interview with Victoria Wyndham.

Whoever transcribed it didn't understand her reference to Marshall McLuhan & quotes her as discussing "Marshall LaPlume". One of those danged young people, no doubt.

Interviewer also had to ask her what the "fourth wall" was when she mentioned it. Not the brightest bulb, though s/he knew most of her Wyndham factoids.

David Shankbone (the journalist) was/is an oddball.

Wyndham may have been hard to hear, too. Sometimes the whinnies are hard to interpret.

geez!

I'm here bitches!

R510/530, "I got your number, lady" Bay City-style made my week. I love hearing your stories about your mother and Rachel and Iris and the nemesis!

Thank you R538. It was nice to remember that!

I should really write them all down someday. LOL

Camille Paglia's eulogy to Beverlee:

[quote] I was surprised and impressed to see the attention given by the New York Times to the death of Beverlee McKinsey, a soap opera star whose prime period is long gone. Plaudits to the obit department! McKinsey’s portrayal of bitchy supersocialite Iris Carrington in “Another World” (1970-79) gave me endless pleasure. Those were the glory days of TV soaps — now a dying form, narcotized by corporate blandness.

McKinsey played Iris like Oscar Wilde’s imperious Lady Bracknell crossed with ice-blond Grace Kelly. But her low, velvety voice more resembled Joan Greenwood’s as Gwendolen Fairfax (Lady Bracknell’s daughter) in the Anthony Asquith film of “The Importance of Being Earnest.” In those pre-VCR years, I had to scribble down soap-opera dialogue as fast as I could. I was then at my first teaching job at Bennington College, which I was regularly disrupting with my obnoxiously militant Amazon feminism. (I gave a rueful account of those hectic years to Philip Davis for his superb recent biography of Bernard Malamud.) McKinsey as Iris Carrington clearly prefigured Joan Collins’ ruthless, glamorous Alexis Carrington Colby in the blockbuster prime-time soap “Dynasty,” in the 1980s. Both McKinsey and Collins portrayed and embodied an important form of female power that I fiercely felt was excluded or libeled by Second Wave feminism.

Here are some McKinsey highlights from my Bennington notebooks for 1975-76:

As her father’s goody-goody wife Rachel lies in critical condition on the verge of losing her baby, rich and idle Iris Carrington causes trouble in the hallway outside the hospital room: “Really–Rachel’s servants are becoming as rude she is.”

Iris on long-distance telephone: “Oh, Millicent, I know you’re usually in Barcelona in June, but surely my wedding takes precedence over that!”

Iris’ maid Louise to a plant she is watering: “I know Mrs. Carrington is in an irritable mood this morning, but I hope you will cheer her up.” Iris (entering): “Are you discussing me with that monstrosity?”

Loretta (Iris’ New York sophisticate friend): “I’ll never forget how you cheered me up after my divorce at your villa in Saint-Tropez.” Iris (evenly): “I don’t have a villa at Saint-Tropez.” Loretta: “You don’t?” Iris (very evenly): “I hate Saint-Tropez.” Loretta (brightly): “It must have been Olive’s villa!”

Two years later, while attending a Lily Tomlin show in New York with my friend Stephen Feld, I spotted the actress who had briefly played Loretta on “Another World” and had acted in that very scene. I leaned over the hapless two patrons sitting between us and (to her astonishment) enthusiastically recited both parts of the Saint-Tropez dialogue.

When the news of Beverlee's death hit the soap sites, and the NYT had not written anything about a few days later, I wrote the NYT entertainment editor, who I believe at that time was Bill Carter, and asked him if the paper was considering an obit.

I mentioned that, while she was now likely living in California, she had been an NYC resident for at least 20 years while appearing on AW and GL, and had done theater.

I got a reply saying they'd look into it, and the next day an obit appeared.

I'm sure I was not the only one bringing it to their attention - they likely received a number of emails or calls. But if I had a teeny, infinitesimal part in having her remembered, that makes me happy.

Thank you so much r541 - you are responsible and I am incredibly grateful. We have to be on the case when Eileen Fulton dies.

One of the soap mags did a four page tribute to McKinsey after she passed -- "Alexandra The Great" (since most readers knew her as GL's Alex over AW's Iris, but her time there, of course, was addressed in the tribute.)

It had Wyndham and others talking about her.

God bless you for looking out for Bev, R541.

RKK is the Bo that I know of before Reckell returned. He was so fucking sexy that he set this gay boy's heart on fire.

I also prefer Elaine Princi's Dorian to Strasser' s second stint. Mia Korf will forever have my heart as Blair. Kassie Depaiva has been miscast on both OLTL and Days. She worked as GL' s Chelsea because her Southern roots worked as a Reardon.

Happy Birthday to Ms. Linda Dano!

I always wanted Felicia to be my fag hag.

R546 is a Top.

I think I'm losing my mind. DC Confidential posted a profile today of AW.

I remembered all the storylines they mentioned except the following:

Donna was so angry at Vicky's role in Michae's death that she tried to kill her at the funeral.

Instead she mowed down Marley with her car. While recovering in the hospital an explosion burned Marley beyond recognition.

A deranged Marley kidnapped Vicky and left her to die.

WHAT THE FUCK????????????

I don't remember any of this and I never missed an episode.

Wasn't that when they brought in Ellen Wheeler to play Marley?

Cecile, that's such a lovely outfit you're wearing!

I loved it when I bought it three seasons ago. How nice for you, though.

R548 I think that was at the very end, and that was crazy times.

Yes, that storyline was during the end times, the last year or two.

Which one of you bitches wrote this?

No, really. I think this writer is among us.

r553 Patrick Erwin writes the Thousand Other Worlds blog. The AW remembrance you linked is just one of several postings he's recently done.

Patrick was a big P&G fan and wrote the blog for several years. He always wrote insightful posts about soaps. But when ATWT closed up shop in 2010, so did he.

But he just resurrected the blog in early May. As he explained in the blogpost linked below, he started it up again because: "in 2015, the traffic on my old blog entries here has been going through the roof. I found a message board linking to some of my old discussions that had hundreds of entries – some with amazing levels of detail and passion for the P&G shows."

Likely the message board he's talking about is DL and our P&G discussions.

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Funny -- and sad -- how so many people start thinking of these FICTIONAL characters as real. Vicky did this to Marley and I'll never forgive her for...blah, blah, blah.

Sad.

I was missing Bay City this week. I found some web series that took place in another Bay City, and ran into a mention of She Who Turned Music to Shit's having grown up in Bay City, not Detroit. But neither one is10 Underhill Terrace, Bay City, IL.

Donnas, report in.

I was never able to think of Jake as someone who would rape anyone, let alone Marley. It was idiot plotting of the most extreme variety. I have no problem believing it didn't happen.

How many men did both Hudson sisters sleep with and what was the order in which they slept with them?

Jake and Jamie, who both slept with Vicky first. Any others?

Which Hudson sister was better in bed? Marley had to have been frigid.

How could you tell which sister was she playing? Did she wear her hair a certain way or dress some way to distinguish the two?

R560 You could tell because they dressed Marley more frumpy. And for a while there was the "Marley wig."

Jealous, bitches?

[quote] I have no problem believing it didn't happen.

i have no problem pretending all of what happened with the aw characters on atwt never happened

Come up with that one all by yourself, r22?

[quote]i have no problem pretending all of what happened with the aw characters on atwt never happened

Did Vicky die when they moved to Oakdale?

R565, Vicky survived long enough to give birth to twin girls, then died. Jake remarried and found the twins about a year later. Then Jake died too and Donna and Marley showed up to take the twins back to Bay City.

Cass kept appearing on both GL and ATWT until the end IIRC whenever they needed a spare lawyer, tho.

Who had the twins during the year before Jake found them? And why did he need to find them? Didn't he know Vicky died and/or was pregnant?

R567 I don’t remember.... I think cause she had a plane crash and somebody helped deliver them? Jake had just assumed they had died with Vicky and didn’t realize they were delivered. And then her ghost showed up to guide Jake to the babies. It was all pretty stupid IIRC.