Mariel Hemingway: Woody Allen wanted to take me to Paris when I was 16

He's a POS... Interesting how DL defends him versus other notable pedophiles.

Mariel Hemmingway's flat chest in Personal Best disturbed me as a child.

A middle-aged man is attracted to a beautiful young girl. This sort of thing has never happened before. I am shocked!

R3 = Roman Polanski

I told you so. I never liked Woody or Manahattan.

But he's a genius! And a genius can do anything he wants!

1

I kinda knew then that Woody wasn't earnest like Ernest, my grandad, who also lived in Paris. In fact, I can just see my grandfather clock Woody in his head for his indecent proposal.

Some media outlets are making a point of saying that she was eighteen when she was asked on the trip.

But she writes about how she didn't have to worry about kissing him in Manhattan because "he attacked me like I was a linebacker".

Her parents sould like a pair of real peaches, enabling Allen's perversions by enthusiastically pimping her out. No wonder Marguex offed herself.

One Mariel to another: Woody Allen looks like porpoise spit.

To the DL pedos, Woody is their patron saint. Ultimately their hatred of Mia is so intense it extends to her children.

How could anyone hate Mia?

Most straight men are attracted to post-pubescent 16 year-old girls. Most women hit the wall much younger than men.

[quote]How could anyone hate Mia?

By being adopted by her.

Stacey Nelkin was 15 when she dated Woody Allen.

She said in an interview that she was 17 when she dated Allen. She lied. I know her schoolmates from Stuyvesant High School who say she was 15 when Allen used to wait for her in front of the school.

Oh, and the Mariel Hamingway character in Manhattan is named... Tracy.

I miss Margaux Hemingway.

Is that why Mariel went to London ?

R13: so not true. Wishful thinking.

I like Mariel Hemingway. She seems to have a very positive, healthy handle on life. She's sensible and a survivor. I hope this book was cathartic for her. I'll have to get a copy.

Just a gay man here...but I don't think that 16 year-old girls are attractive.

Often they're carrying extra weight, have bad skin, hair, etc.

The same thing is true of college students, but to a different degree.

Of course, some peak out when they're young and dumb, and they're the ones who hit the wall in their mid-late 20s.

I heard during the Michael Jackson era that pedophiles have a particular age they're attracted to. I guess Allen got a Woody for teenage girls AND toddlers. So he's some kind of super pedophile, I guess.

Does it have to be either/or, OP? Can't we hate both?

I also like Mariel Hemingway. And I was shocked when I saw her in bed with Woody (and little woody) in "Manhattan."

"Attacked me like a linebacker" is both hysterical and sad. Sounds like she made the right decisions. People develop character through their experiences and decide whether to tough it out or not. The Hemingways don't have a good track record of toughing it out. I agree, there's something special about her. I'm definitely getting the book.

Woody Allen used film making as wish fulfilment. It gave him access to young beautiful girls/girlish women who would never have associated with him otherwise. Same as pervy priests and countless others.

Count me in with the Mariel fans.

Coming from that, the ultimate in dysfunctional American families, she sounds intelligent, level-headed, and not self-destructive.

I don't think she's a great actress but I think she's aware of that. She came up as a great Lolita-type model beauty along with Nastassja Kinski--another heart-stopping, photogenic teenage beauty swooped up by middle-aged directors as The Next Big Thing. So much for all that.

Mariel has been very forthcoming about her troubled family, her gorgeous but ill-fated sister, Margeaux. She obviously had a good enough experience with the hideous Woody Allen to work with him again in DECONSTRUCTING HARRY (forgettable). But points to her for not being a victim about it.

She's always struck me as a game performer of somewhat limited talents who will show up, deliver the goods, get along with everyone, and move on to the next job. There are worse crimes.

I also support her 100%. She's smart and honest. Streep called out Woody Allen early on as a womanizer. Now we can add pervert, jail bait predator and dirty old man.

M was just bitter because Woody dind't ask the Greatest Actress Who Ever lived and Ever Will Live back again, but used the likes of Judy Davis and Dianne Weist multiple times.

The heart wants what it wants: Underage pussy from girls who wouldn't give me the time of day if I couldn't help their career because I am an extremely ugly troll.

Right, because they looked the other way. Cheap sluts.

Streep has worked with many great directors; I doubt she is "bitter".

The other story that is disturbing is the one about Robert Towne. What a prick.

I'll give you Mike Nichols, R30, and Clint Eastwood. But, generally, Streep works with mediocre directors, which is why there are no classic films on her resume.

Of course young teenagers are hot and sexy, but feeling attracted to them and attempting to seduce them are quite different.

I really like that Mariel Hemingway seems healthy physically and mentally. Breaking the cycle cannot be easy but it can be done.

The pedophile wants what it wants: children.

Woody sounds predatory. And he knew Mariel's parents would be pushovers, probably having noticed them on the set. It's textbook; Michael Jackson territory.

Mariel probably appealed to him because she had a VERY young-sounding voice and demeanor.

That is bullshit R32 and has been refuted a million times. At least try and focus on Mariel Hemingway.

[quote]Interesting how DL defends him versus other notable pedophiles.

It's because we have a significant MRA population on DL now -- the MRAs and G*merGaters are practically astroturfing the entire 'net to promote their agenda.

And after the Dylan story broke and I saw people post pro-Woody stuff on DL that was exactly the same, and I mean word-for-word, on other websites, I figure we have shills or the obsessed who set up a Google Alert for Woody and come here to defend him. They all say the same thing over and over, like the Ch*ck-fil-A shills do.

There are a lot of DL regulars who hate women, too, but I don't think the defenses would be so vehement if it weren't for non-regulars showing up on these threads.

Teenagers are pretty but so moronic, I just couldn't. Middle-aged men going after teenagers are always fucked up and nasty people.

16 yr old these days already look like hags. The goal of parents today is to try to make sure their girls stay virgins until at least 13 yrs old.

Just look at Kim K's sisters, fucking whores already dating much older men.

R31 yeah I know. That actually might be more disturbing: she breaks up with him thus he starts degrading her. And Bob Fosse, too.

Oh let's face it, the men in this business are all slime.

R13 is completely right. Most even younger. I think people forget the historical age of consent was always lower and the age of consent worldwide is - on average - 14, 15?

That being said, Woody Allen wasn't just attracted. He was pursuing from an a lot younger age. He was grooming.

[quote]That is bullshit [R32] and has been refuted a million times. At least try and focus on Mariel Hemingway.

Save your vitriol for R30. She's the one who brought it up.

And, no, it has not been refuted.

In the mid-to-late 1800s, the average age a girl first had her period in northern Europe was around 16-17. Before that it was potentially higher because of bad nutrition. There also wasn't a problem with food fucking with hormones like today and there wasn't an "obesity epidemic." Being fat raises estrogen, because fat produces estrogen.

Ovulation generally occurs 1-3 years after the first menarche, which would put the average age of first conceiving back then at around 18-20. However, it's possible that ovulation historically occurred closer to menarche.

Men and women likely reach peak fertility around 25-30. I've seen different ages given though. I'd say 25 is the most attractive age.

R15...why do make particular point of MH's character's name being Tracy? Have I missed something??

Stacey/Tracy r45.

The character was said to be based on actress Stacey Nelkin.

Does anyone know who the fuck r44 is talking to?

Does anyone want to know about the onset of wet dreams or the sperm count of older men?

Mariel, like Margo (the correct way to spell it) was a lying bitch. She was named after a port for God's sake.

You know if the lying sisters said something, it was a lie. Margo and Mariel should be hung. Even the dead one, dug up and hung, for their lies.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Woody Allen should have served jail time as a pedophile. He is one sick puppy.

The SJWs here are beginning to rival Jezebel.

Even Ernest said his granddaughters would be excellent writers because they lied about everything. In other words had an imagination.

You can't believe anything either of them said. Liars.

Woody likes young tender supple stink-hole!

This might be obvious to others, but I just want to make sure I understand...When she said "he attacked me like I was a linebacker" means he jumped on her in an aggressive, awkward gross pushy way? Is that correct?

Woody Allen also cast 11-year old Brooke Shields in Annie Hall and dated her mother Teri. I think he had designs on Brooke.

Brooke was in Annie Hall? Which scene?

DL has an anti-Hemingway sisters troll?

Wow.

Brooke's scene was cut from Annie Hall. According to her recent book, she was in a scene with a bunch of kids and had one line but the whole scene ended up on the cutting room floor.

[55] yes, that's what it means.

Mia's children minus Woody's wife stand behind every word she has said on this issue- and support the claims of their sister too. Woody Allen is not so much a pedophile as he is a narcissistic creep and neurotic as hell. That said he has made some terrific films. Among those who know of his routine and habits on the Upper East Side of Manhattan for the past 40 years- few have much nice to say. He was regarded as a creep in 1975. But he was the eccentric funny man and snappy auteur of Manhattan cinema so he got a pass.

Actually, Moses says Woody is innocent, R61. But like I've said before, I don't get good vibes from that guy. His Facebook is dire.

[quote]I have carefully combined my skills as a therapist with my creative eye as a photographer to give you a unique experience that captures the essence of who you are.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

No one is trolling but every where you read, one thing is consistent, Mariel and Margo were liars. They were pretty mediocre in their careers too, which only fed their insecurities.

I used to watch every one of his films at the Beekman as they came out. It was a ritual for New Yorkers. And I liked his films with Mia Farrow a lot.

But I stopped watching Woody Allen's films after the tawdry episode with Soon Yi. They just went down and I found them disturbing. For one thing, I felt every film from then on around that time had embedded in them a weaselly justification or rationalization for what he did. For another it made for some very mediocre films.

I guess being a filmmaker in exile has become a way out for him. Whatever. I'm done with watching his films.

Fish are disgusting/

I was a big fan too, but in light of what's emerged I can't stand him anymore.

Gee...Lucky Mariel!! at the end of Manhattan...she knows she'll get Woody when she's finished with acting school in London and returns to NY, a great and happy ending.

Likewise, lucky old Diane Wiest so miserable for so long in Hannah, but, guess what?...she gets WOODY in the end!!

lol R67 - I agree. That last shot of Hannah and Her Sisters, with Dianne going into the dark hallway to tell her new paramour - WOODY - that she's pregnant with his baby has always had for me an ominous, portentous horror movie vibe to it. Like Rosemary's Baby!

r44 is right.

Although, the onset of puberty did occur much earlier in some societies.

A point that needs to be made is that many teenagers still look like children, even after they have started puberty.

I don't think that it's strange to be attracted to a sexually aware, mature 16 year-old, even 15 year-old (14 in the ghetto, the south, or Hawaii), boy or girl. But no one's talking about that. For every 10-15 men who are attracted to teenagers who look and act older, there are a handful who are attracted to 14 year-olds who look like they're 11.

The thing about Woody Allen is not that he had sex with a young woman, or even a 15 year-old. It's that he ended up with his dick in a girl he knew to be his daughter (like Satchel says---he was her brothers' father).

As far as the "pedophile" accusation goes---I don't think that Woody is necessarily a pedophile. However, because of his total disregard for social mores, and lack of boundaries, it's easy to believe that he molested, or at least behaved inappropriately with Dylan. A lot of sex offenders dabble in different genders, age groups... It's very common.

R44, that's not true. Most girls back then got their periods around 14 or 15, not as late as 17. And there isn't any evidence that hormones in food affect puberty

What's the Robert Towne story?

R65,

[quote]I felt every film from then on around that time had embedded in them a weaselly justification or rationalization for what he did.

And all his films have embedded in them some form of misogyny or abuse of women.

R69,

[quote]As far as the "pedophile" accusation goes---I don't think that Woody is necessarily a pedophile.

Seriously? You just got finished proving what a predator he was.

R72 there are degrees. Just because he has issues with boundaries and is what most people wold consider a weirdo, it doesn't necessarily follow the he's an all-out Pedo.

And honestly let's think how many people (men) in this business have a thing for adolescent girls. It's sick but still not as sick as being a Pedo.

I wish someone would have taken me to Paris when I was 16! Fuck

God, I loathe the Saint Mia freaks. She's such a vile narcissist and she's a horrible mother. She is not the poster girl against pedophilia, except in her own twisted mind.

Here's a newsflash, most straight men would love to fuck 16 year old girls. It doesn't make them pedophiles, it makes them normal men fantasizing about younger women.

Most of them cannot make their fantasies reality. Hollywood is different and very rich people are different. It's not a national crisis, it's just human existence as it has always been. Take a deep, cleansing breath and move along. Surely you have better things to do.

R73, I don't know what you think a peodphile is, but I'll help you out. It's simple...

[quote]pedophile: a person who is sexually attracted to children.

Woody is a self-admitted pedophile...

[quote]"I mean, if I was caught in a love nest with 15 12-year-old girls tomorrow, people would think, yeah, I always knew that about him." Allen pauses. "Nothing I could come up with would surprise anyone," he ventures helplessly. "I admit to it all."

Um, R75, you do realize that Woody messed with Dylan from the time she was a toddler until she was six years old, right?

R76 that quote is part of his self-deprecating schitck. To say nothing of the fact that you could make jokes like that in the far more permissive 70s and not really experience any fall out - let alone the wrath of the faux outrage social media witch hunt that would incur today.

It was a joke. One that wouldn't fly today, but a joke nonetheless.

R75, you're obviously part of Woody's PR brigade, or why would YOU be on here defending that POS? Read the thread title. Nobody gives a sh*t about Mia; we're talking about Mariel Hemingway and Woody Allen. Why don't you move along?

Allegedly, r77.

Regarding the link at R62

Who would choose Moses for a family counselor? The guy sounds like a child. And a child who needs a lot of attention. Him being a therapist doesn't make any sense. Maybe Woody's giving him a monthly stipend for the hit piece against Mia and Dylan.

"Here's a newsflash, most straight men would love to fuck 16 year old girls. It doesn't make them pedophiles, it makes them normal men fantasizing about "

Well, the problem is that 16 year old girls aren't fantasizing about fucking middle-aged men.

No, R77, I "realize" no such thing. You state it as fact, it is not a fact. It is a story that has been told. Some people believe it, others do not.

If Woody Allen is arrested, charged, tried and convicted, it will be a "fact" that he is guilty of something. Until then, we all have our opinions about these stories and they are all valid.

R73/R78/R80, you can try to rationalize and normalize Woody's pedo behavior all you want, which is what Woody and his PR shills and Stacey Nelkin want you to do. It's a clever strategy.

R82 well apparently, DeNiro, Bob Fosse, and Robert Towne were no different. It's the same old syndrome of rich powerful Hollywood men thinking they can get any 16 yr old girl they want. And not without good reason - it often works.

R73/R78/R80/R82, statutory rape also works if you force yourself onto a 16-year old or lure her into having sex wit you. Last time I checked, the age of consent in Hollywood was 18. So stop trying to make statutory rape and pedophilia sound normal and appropriate. You kind of sound like Woody, himself.

Of course they're not, R82, that's not a problem. I fantasize about guys who are straight sometimes. They will never return my interest. It's just fantasy, we all do it and it's harmless. If I were a successful director, I might see if they would be interested in fucking for parts but who knows?

No, R79, you complete and utter paranoid freak. I am not a part of Woody Allen's PR "brigade" as you so bizarrely put it. I've been a member of the DL for many, many years. You have got to get hold of yourself and stop going mental whenever someone with a different point of view posts something online.

You believe Mia. I believe Woody. You believe Dylan. I believe Soon-Yi. You believe Ronan. I believe Moses. Since neither of us was a witness, neither of us actually knows "the truth" all we have are opinions.

Lighten up, Francis.

R87, wasn't it you at R75 who tried to dismiss us off the thread for having a different opinion than you?

[quote]Take a deep, cleansing breath and move along. Surely you have better things to do.

Why not take your own advice and let people with different opinions continue to post on this thread?

[quote][R87], wasn't it you at [R75] who tried to dismiss us off the thread for having a different opinion than you?

Dismiss you off the thread for having a different opinion? No. Give you shit for being paranoid, hysterical obsessives about Mia Farrow? Yes. I loathe you people.

[quote]Why not take your own advice and let people with different opinions continue to post on this thread?

No one is stopping you from continuing to post on this thread, R88, what a bizarre thing to write. If you believe that someone or something is actually stopping you from posting here, please consult the webmaster, a licensed mental health professional or simply find a website where you won't have to tolerate people who think you're full of shit. LChat is popular with the Saint Mia loons, for obvious reasons.

Men like young girls. That is just a fact. 13 year olds to 16 year old girls are fair game to most men; culture and the law make them off limits. But move them to a more permissive society, like third world or cults and most men quickly get over any moral aversion to predatory sexual behavior toward 13 yr old girls or slightly older.

"Manhattan" seems like an odd movie nowadays. It is just so odd that he brings this high school girl on dates and nobody ever says SHE'S IN HIGH SCHOOL wtf?

Diane Keaton does refer to her as 'the little girl', R91.

But I agree.

Very conveniently her parents are nowhere to be seen.

R90, WE GET IT. Stop making your same point over and over again.

Nobody needs to read you justify your attraction to young girls, and you're probably not convincing anyone else of your opinion or that your desires are normal.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

R89,

[quote]Give you shit for being paranoid, hysterical obsessives about Mia Farrow? Yes. I loathe you people.

I said nothing about Mia Farrow in any of my posts on this thread. But hey, knock yourself out trolling for people who post about Mia on a thread about Mariel Hemingway.

R93, you're an awful human being and a huge cunt.

R90, you're absolutely right. There is a normal, natural attraction that older men experience with younger women (and older men with young men, too). It doesn't absolve them of their responsibility to NOT fuck anyone under the age of consent but the sexual attraction itself is simply biology. There's nothing wrong with it.

Don't worry about freaks like R93. She's an idiot with absolutely no understanding of basic human sexuality. She'll be gone from the DL soon (can't be soon enough to suit, really).

Oh for fuck's sake, you moron. As if I'd bother troll-dar-ing you. What kind of pathetically obsessed freak does that? You, that's what kind. Quelle surprise.

You talk about Mia all the time, not actually typing out her name in this thread doesn't change that. If you understood the DL you'd understand that you cannot police any thread. We have no rules, there is no off-topic. We can all post whatever we want wherever we want. Don't like it? Gee, that's really too bad.

Now go away, cunt. You don't belong on a website for gay men.

Stop being such a psycho cunt, R96. You're shrieking that you can post whatever you want while [italic]at the same time[/italic] telling others what they can or cannot post.

The thing is, I don't think you're a troll, I think you're legitimately fucked in the head. So, you know, good luck with that and all, but the rest of us don't need to be saddled with being your temporary minders on the internet.

R96,

[quote]You talk about Mia all the time, not actually typing out her name in this thread doesn't change that.

WTF??? You are seriously delusional.

IS this thread anything but 2 psychos screaming at each other now? Lame.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...THREAD CLOSED!

Yes, let's get back to the topic...

Pfft. There's at least four of us, R99.

And I don't know what else there really is to say. I'm not being snotty by saying that, it's just that we know from multiple examples that Allen has a thing for underaged women. Hemingway was one more example but sadly she didn't tell us anything we didn't already know.

I recall many moons ago Mariel's sister, Margeaux, said she was molested by a much older actor when she was just a little girl. She said it contributed to some of her psychological issues which were very deep. As everyone knows she committed suicide. I think kids should never be raised around the Hollywood crowd.

Woody is a perv who hangs out with convicted pervs (Jeffrey Epstein). Mariel's account is just further confirmation of the fact.

a 16 year old is a sexually mature full grown stinkfish: ovulat-ing, gizzulat-ing, and stinkulat-ing!

And also of legal age of consent in most of the civilized world/

"But move them to a more permissive society, like third world or cults and most men quickly get over any moral aversion to predatory sexual behavior toward 13 yr old girls or slightly older."

Men are narcisistic psychos - most have no moral aversions of any kind.

"Men like young girls. That is just a fact."

The type of men who "like" young girls, wants to be in control, needs to dominate, and likes the fact that a sexually inexperienced girl can't adequately rate his performance, make demands and challenge him.

There's a quote by WA talking about his relationship with Soon-Yi where he talks about the fact that he is in charge, unchallenged.

Whatever floats your boat, but old men going after teenagers, female or male, are always creepy and odd.

Do people really think somehow an 17/18 year old (or whatever the age of consent is in a given state/country) is less attractive than a 15 year old to straight men? They can't wait? That they "don't care" is not the point. The only differences between the 15 year old and 17 year old are that the 15 year old sometimes looks noticeably closer to a child; they're almost definitely closer to a child in mindset and experience. Which is sometimes the point. Besides, there's a difference also between a man who just wants to fuck a 15 year old and a man who wants a relationship with her. He wants a relationship so he can push her around because she's young and stupid.

And R82 is completely right. The young girls aren't generally attracted. If they fantasize about older men it's probably cute guys in their thirties, not Woody Allen and Roman Polanksi.

I really hate Mrs. Patrick Campbell.

You know after Woody's dead and all the bromides about his filmography are set aside, all the wicked shit about his pedophilia will gush forth like pus from a boil. This tidbit from Mariel isn't even the tip of the tip of the iceberg.

R70, I was in particular referencing women in northern Europe because there is data on that. I don't carry around knowledge of northern European girls first periods, I looked it up because posters were referencing the historical age of menarche around the world. Obviously age of menarche varies in different ethnicities. Mediterranean and West Africans generally get it earlier, for example, so if you've seen 14 or 15 you might know of other data.

It's widely known that for some reason or another girls are getting their periods earlier. Therefore, using potentially bullshit numbers makes the argument that men should be allowed to fuck young teens because they get their periods then is incorrect. And again, ovulation generally starts a few years later. Menarche =/= able to conceive.

I'm surprised there hasn't already been as Cosby-esque airing of grievances about Allen, but I think the (occasionally paid-for by Allen's PR) attacks on Dylan and Mia do scare some people off, especially if they're still in the business.

Isn't it odd that there are far fewer attacks on Mariel than on Dylan and Mia? We have the Anti-Hemingway Sisters Troll but that's pretty much it.

It's interesting that people are pointing to biology as the foundation for male attraction to young, young girls.

I'm a gay man who has had sex with girls, women, and at one time I was very attracted to them. Now that I have accepted myself, gay people, culture, etc. at the age of 32, I don't even think about women anymore (unless I'm discussing them, and their dismal situation in threads like these).

I think that culture has a strong influence on sexual attraction---if societal standards of beauty dictate who we find attractive, why wouldn't age of consent standards?

I think that most men could be easily talked into fucking anything---men, women, boys, girls. And if they live in Afghanistan, or the Papua New Guinea Semen Warrior tribe, they do it. If they live in Nicaragua or Guatemala, they do it.

On the same point, I think that most people (men---not sure about women) could take a shine to any sexual fetish with enough exposure---bukkake, golden showers, bestiality.

This doesn't mean that society is doomed, just that sexuality is malleable. I don't think I could ever get hard from watching a bestiality flick.Why? Because I have a dog (she's so cute!), think it's wrong, and overall believe that it's bad for society.

If I was in a different position---no dependent, loving pets, trouble with the concept of morality, dismissive of society, I would probably be more open to it, after an initial period of objection.

R112,

[quote]This doesn't mean that society is doomed, just that sexuality is malleable

Your experience of malleability s interesting, but it's not the norm, especially among males. Taken to extremes, it's the justification for the "ex-gay" conversion therapy movement, which never works.

r112, lots of studies prove that many men are not very "malleable" in their attractions - that gay guys only got aroused looking at men, and straight guys only got aroused looking at women. Some guys are bi, and many people are very kinky, but saying society influences our attractions doesn't explain how even the most rabidly anti-gay societies have gay people. People are still pedophiles, despite the fact that they are seen as "monsters" in our society and are put on a sex offender registry for life.

Well, who thinks 16 year old boys are attractive? I mean, with their bad hair, scrawny bodies, and bad skin, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Not all 16-year-olds are scrawny or have bad skin.

The smell of 16 year olds' socks and laundry makes me want to puke.

R115,

[quote] Well, who thinks 16 year old boys are attractive? I mean, with their bad hair, scrawny bodies, and bad skin, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Uh, ever been to high school? Typically, 16-year old girls are attracted to 16-year old boys, and not to middle-aged pedos who attack them ("like a linebacker") like Woody Allen did with Mariel Hemingway.

r20, all that means is that you aren't a pedophile.

r90 here. Interesting all the reaction to my post. Trolldar won't work for all the obsessives;I am using another location. Not at home.

I did not make any judgements in my post. I simply stated fact as I have observed it. Historically and current culture, other than western, have strong indicators for my point that stripped from restraints men will express sexual intentions toward young girls. Even ISIS some of the most religiously conservative men in history have demanded that ten yr old girls, yes ten, be made available to them for marriage. We won't even open up the discussion of some pig pen cultures in Africa that openly castrate eight yr old girls, make them available for marraige and then impregnate them by puberty. Some African countries now have an epidemic of eleven yr old girls with two children already who were too young to give birth and have torn their urine chanels (whateve) and leak urine uncontolled until their grown men husbands divorce them because they 'stink'.

India, Afganistan, Pakistan,,,,,those girls are raped by the men in their town if they refuse marraige at ten. Their fathers can do nothing to protect them.

I think the whole impulse is reprehensible and repugnant.....men just continue to fuck little girls, or want to but can't.

Nice.

R90/R120

[quote]I think the whole impulse is reprehensible and repugnant.....men just continue to fuck little girls, or want to but can't.

¥es, it is reprehensible, but NOT THE NORM. Nature never intended for women to have torn-up bodies leaking urine their whole lives.

R95 You're wrong. Psychologically well-adjusted middle-aged men will not be attracted to a 16- year-old girl.

even Woody's movies have a very pedophilic/mysoginistic vibr to them.

I see some bitter Queens can dish it out but cannot take it?

It's Mariel's truth and those of you not honoring it are very triggering.

I want Mia Farrow to say something about child sex trafficking and Jeffrey Epstein. All those rich NYC people are tip toeing. Fuck that. Woody may possibly be an international pedo, thanks to Jeff's jets. So, where's Mia Farrow to comment?

I think Woody is attracted to power, and that's at the root of how he operates sexually with girls. The last time his pedophilia came up, some people scoffed and said he could easily get an underage kid through some channel without going for his pre-school adopted daughter. But that's not the point. He doesn't want that sort of transaction. I suspect with Mia's family he got off on doing it in the family. That was the entire point - going where you're not supposed to go.

What's really off the wall is I know somebody at an entertainment law firm and Woody Allen has litereally bad reputation among his lead ACTORS. He'll do anything to make them uncomfortable, keep them waiting on location, keep them on set when they'd like to be back in the trailer. I can't remember the movie but I was told he really fucked with one star on the Brooklyn Bridge - not literally, of course, but really made him miserable, physically uncomfortable, cold, took forever, didn't talk to him, etc. These are big stars. They don't bitch and complain because it's Woody Allen.

R81, a lot of dysfunctional types become counselors. Don't know if it's the norm, but I know of two people in the same medical school class who became shrinks despite what would seem to be big problems in their own psychological make-up. One spoke freely to her friends about her father's ongoing inappropriateness with her - not actual abuse, but walking in on her repeatedly when she was in the shower or changing, putting his hands where he shouldn't when the opportunity came up, and not only did she not full on confront him set boundaries once she was an adult, she failed to tell this to her analyst during the six months she was in analysis as part of her training program. She'd bitch and whine and complaint to her father and call him out but never laid down the law. Another med student who chose psychiatry was gayer than gay but engaged to a woman.

OT but then there's those who choose OBGYN cause they're burned out and they look at it as a short cut and the easy way out to an M.D.

It's a classic case of the emperor's new clothes, R127! Setting aside inexplicable praise by lemmings ("Midnight in Paris" was tepid and pretentious, I don't care what the masses said), WA's movies have sucked hard for TWENTY years!

People need to move on. What a rude creep. Actors should stand up to that pedo establishment sicko.

I would love to hear someone like Sam Shepard tell all about the mass firing of the entire cast, then re-casting, for P.O.S. "serious" WA film "September" (now totally forgotten and laughably unwatchable). That's a documentary I'd like to watch, not some informercial documentary about Woody's love of jazz (except he loathes black people in his films) by a professional toady.

He's not really keen on using black jazz musicians in his films either, R129. I mean, he does, but if you know anything about jazz and swing and look at his soundtracks, it's pretty obvious that he goes out of his way to get white musicians any chance he gets. I don't think it's his Bix Beiderbecke fixation that skews the results, either.

You're right R106. When Woody wrote his Times op ed, a lot of it was a juvenile score-counting of how much more status he had than Mia. His tone about Soon Yi was the same. I'm not sure I've read anyone else talking about their wife's limited experience in a way that highlights the obvious in a really childish way. "I'm a filmmaker and I know Europe! I know really nice restaurants! She comes from a really low part of society and doesn't know anything. Obviously, I'm the decider."

Yes, obviously Woody. Thanks for pointing it out.

He's never going to die, you know. I think both his parents lived to be close to 100.

Not everything was hunky dory between Blanchett and WA on the set of Blue Jasmine.

Agree with R106, that pedophiles, in general, and Woody, in particular...

[quote] wants to be in control, needs to dominate, and likes the fact that a sexually inexperienced girl can't adequately rate his performance, make demands and challenge him.

Also, as R127 said, Woody is attracted to power probably because he's got psychological problems. It's no coincidence that he's been in therapy for most of his life. He just happens to be high-functioning.

R133 - I'm no expert, but I understand that group therapy might be better for narcissists, and conventional analysis just reinforces someone's narcissism. Not that I know how effective therapy is on someone like Allen. Any time he articulates anything personal he sounds like a child.

[quote]You're wrong. Psychologically well-adjusted middle-aged men will not be attracted to a 16- year-old girl.

There's attraction, and then there's acting on that attraction. The latter is what makes the difference.

Pedophilia is about the pffender's intense fear of intimacy, need for total control, and about sadism, an enjoyment of the corrupting and harming of another person.

Pathological narcissists are not treatable by therapy. They are neurologically hard-wired to be low in empathy and self-serving at all times, and do not see themselves as being at fault when their personality results in problems. It's always another person's fault.

You can appreciate the beauty of a child or a young adult, without ever confusing that appreciation with the desire or the right to violate them.

It is repulsive, social failures that prey on children. You see it here and in the UK cases.

R137 is right. Woody Allen's therapy probably just intensifies his narcisissm.

What color is Woody Allen's pubic hair? Or does he shave?

By 30 a fish is considered way past sell-by date by most normal men (aka "str8 guys")who have lives.

I know this thread shouldn't be about WA and his movies, but, damn, his movies have sucked for a very long time. I've read that he doesn't really "direct" his actors; rather, he just lets them find their own way and doesn't really communicate with them. They're all just dying to be in a WA movie, that they'll put up with that. Well, guess what actors? His movies haven't been good in 30 years. It's as though he lives in a bubble and has absolutely no idea how the real world works and how real people live and talk. He made some fantastic movies -- no one can take that away from him -- but his best days are long behind him.

I don't know much about Mariel, but I suspect that what she says is true.

Yes, as R136 and R138 said, it's sadism and violation of children we're talking about. Rape is an act of violence. We're not fooled by the sugar-coating, romanticizing and intellectual justifications of Woody Allen, in the name of "art." Even the great Nabokov's romantic tale of pedo-lust, Lolita, has a moral center and does not end well for Humbert.

Let's be clear, Woody Allen has left a trail of wreckage behind him. His life's "ouevre" will forever be seen through that lens.

Allen has actually admitted most of his movies are mediocre. He says he's disappointed himself and his legacy won't be anything special. He may not say that a lot, but I remember the thread about it here a few years ago when he did.

[quote]I've read that he doesn't really "direct" his actors; rather, he just lets them find their own way and doesn't really communicate with them.

Hmm, I wonder. I know Elaine Stritch showed a letter from him in that documentary where he tells her he won't work with her unless she's willing to basically shut up and let him lead.

The performances he gets are so homogenized that I have to think he's particular about what he wants. That's partly why Mariel was so good, she looked like she was doing what she wanted, and it was more natural than so many other perfs in WA movies.

R145,

[quote] Allen has actually admitted most of his movies are mediocre. He says he's disappointed himself and his legacy won't be anything special.

That's called humble bragging, and I don't buy it for a second. You can bet he was salivating for that Lifetime Achievement Award in 2014 and in 2011 he cooperated so much with the creators of the two-part American Masters special about him that he appears in almost ever other scene rhapsodizing about himself.

Also, if he sincerely felt that way, he he would give us all a break from his recycled neuroses and retire from making mediocre movies and play his clarinet with other white people.

From the linked article on the American Masters doco...

[quote] The trickiest terrain is the part about Soon-Yi Previn, adopted daughter of Andre Previn and Mia Farrow. Farrow later became Allen's longtime girlfriend, until Allen shocked the world by confessing his love for, and eventually marrying, Soon-Yi. The documentary covers that scandal, and later prominently features Soon-Yi in footage of an overseas tour in which Allen plays clarinet with his jazz band. But it seems to race through that portion of Allen's life as quickly as possible, and understandably so.

[quote] And the film also includes one piece of home-movie footage that's almost uncomfortably revealing. Woody Allen, in 1986, stood behind the camera and interviewed his own mother, Nettie Konigsberg, to record her stories and memories. She tells Allen that he was very bright as a child and that she regrets being so strict.

[quote]"Because if I hadn't been that strict, you might have been a more, a not so impatient ... you might have been a — what should I say? Not 'better.' You're a good person. But maybe softer, maybe warmer," she says. Yikes.

"By 30 a fish is considered way past sell-by date by most normal men (aka "str8 guys")who have lives."

Maybe in 1942.

These days, 30 is the new 50. And even the 50-60 year-old athletic straight guys I know with lives go after 50 year-old women.

The mother probably couldn't have done much with him.

I don't buy that Allen is neurotic. Neurotics are consumed with anxiety about how they are perceived by others, by wanting to do their best, by the fear that they are letting others down.

Allen is narcissistic, the opposite of the anxious neurotic. He created that neurotic persona as it played so well with the kind of crowd he wanted to get in with. His total lack of concern about how people see him is evident in his casting of much younger women as his onscreen lover, his marriage to Soon Yi, and his interview in the seventies in which he said he has no sexual hang ups at all and could easily be discovered in a 'love nest with twelve year old girls in the future'. He's totally devoid of any shame or guilt. His mother sees him for what he is - cold, and hard.

It's not worth the trouble, R148. MPC thinks her routine is still fresh and amusing, though it was stale and boring even back when she was making eyes roll with it at the bathhouse, in 1976.

I watched "Running From Crazy" last night, and it was very sad. All of the daughters were terribly damaged. I remember seeing modeling photos of Margaux in the 70s, and then seeing pictures of her when she wasn't made-up and posing, and it was a huge difference. She was obviously a prop and artifice, and she was quickly exploited and cast aside. Mariel was somewhat luckier, but it's obvious that she's had to struggle therapeutically to remain functional. I commend her for her honesty, but I don't know how much of her goal to raise awareness about mental illness and suicide prevention will be overshadowed by the gossip about Woody Allen. The Hemingway parents were appallingly negligent about protecting their daughters.

Why would she let her daughters model and be in this business knowing first hand how many creeps there are out there?

R149, that's interesting. It reminds me of something I noticed in the American Masters doco where several people (like Diane Keaton, and Woody's sister) use the same word to describe his seemingly remarkable ability to be unaffected by things that would disrupt most people's lives: "compartmentalize." I'll bet he fed them all that word so it would appear cute when they edited them together saying it.

It's a clever euphemism for his coldness and lack of empathy. He can be in the middle of a scandal involving his essentially common-law wife and family and continue making a movie without skipping a beat. Narcissism fits, and he probably knows it, having been in psychoanalysis for most of his adult life. It's his best-kept secret, isn't it? Too bad you can only fool all of the people some of the time.

What does it have to do with being anti-Mia?

Mia, perhaps some people need reminding, is good friends with Roman Polanski.

Now more to your point.

I think, assuming Hemingway is telling the truth, that Woody Allen made an illegal pass at a 16 year old woman.

Assuming the truth of Hemingway's statement, I am not ready to convict Woody Allen for having sex with Dylan Farrow. He may have. Or he may not have.

R153 almost all self successful people have that trait in spades. It may come across as cold and inhuman but sometimes it's the best and only way to get through life. I wish I had that trait more - I could have accomplished a lot more in my life.

It basically just means having a really good, unwavering work ethic - or actually that work is a form of therapy for these kinds of people.

Anybody remember "Lipstick", the sleazy and glam modeling-is-hell pic made starring Margeaux and Mariel Hemingway? Sounds like real life shot for the movies, with better sets.

Fuck off, R142. You ignorant douche.

No, R155, you don't want the ability to "compartmentalize" the way Woody Allen does.

Sure, his coldness and lack of empathy has enabled him to focus on his career and advance to the top of his profession without distractions, but it's also been a handicap. His lack of empathy has led him to cross normal boundaries and alienate much of the public, as well as his children. Do you want Woody Allen's dubious public image, and his enemies?

I agree with R149 and R153. Well put!

OP, you're such a liar with your click-bait and jail-bait title.

She was 18. Eighteen, not 6.

[quote] I remember seeing modeling photos of Margaux in the 70s, and then seeing pictures of her when she wasn't made-up and posing, and it was a huge difference. She was obviously a prop and artifice, and she was quickly exploited and cast aside

I watched it as well, and kept on being amazed (I know,I shouldn't be so naive) at the powerful effects of makeup and lighting.

When she wasn't useful, well...very sad.

We still read -- and enjoyed -- Hemingway when I was in college in the 1970s. Do students still read his writing?

R160, she was 16. This is a direct quote from the article...

[quote]While filming, Allen befriended Hemingway, 16 at the time, and took her to museums and art galleries. "We should go to Paris, just you and I," she says he'd say.

R101:

[quote] The Hemingway parents were appallingly negligent about protecting their daughters.

I think the same can be said of Jack, Mariel's father, being parented by Ernest Hemingway. Jack's father was much more a legend than a flesh-and-blood father and Jack just defaulted to the example he'd been given/raised in.

"Running from Crazy" is on Netflix streaming and gives some good background into the Hemingway family dynamic that even Ernest, as a Hemingway son, had been part of.

I've always been an admirer of Mariel, especially in her dedication to mental illness and suicide prevention causes. I realize how much effort it takes to overcome a genetic family legacy, largely because of my own family history.

Oops folks, my comment above should have been addressed to R151. Pardon me, R101.

R160, as R163 shows, Mariel was 16. And did you notice she had a VERY young voice and demeanor. She sounded and acted much younger than 16.

I don't see anything wrong with a Woody's behavior in the article. He didn't have sex with her. He proposed a trip. She turned it down. I don't get the Woody haters.

She was still only seventeen when the movie came out.

R167, that part of the article reminded me of Michael Jackson with the Jordy kid… Michael went to his house and stayed all night, charming the parents while grooming the kid. I think that's what Woody was probably doing.

Interesting point, R153. It might also explain why he was going to therapy because of his slightly obsessive behavior over one daughter (Dylan) while having an affair with her adopted sister.

You people are nuts. I like Woody Allen. I like his movies. I like his sense of humor. I don't believe he's a pedophile.

It bothers me that these women have come to a gay website to bash him. I wish his lawyers would contact the Webmaster with a cease and desist request. He'd ban the lot of you in a heartbeat and we'd all enjoy the DL a lot more.

[quote]Not that I know how effective therapy is on someone like Allen. Any time he articulates anything personal he sounds like a child.

According to Mia's book, after she found the nude photos of Soon Yi, Woody was pretty calm and tried to calm her down, but when she said she was going to call Andre, Woody curled up in a corner, and began crying and begging her not to call him. The scene sounded very childlike.

This was an example where Woody couldn't compartmentalize, and actually felt something. And this dramatic reaction due to not being able to control his image is why I find it very likely that he married Soon Yi, publicly declaring his love for her in order to try to save his image.

[quote]Mia, perhaps some people need reminding, is good friends with Roman Polanski.

That's one of Allen's PR talking points, but it's not really true, and we have to debunk it EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THREAD. You have no idea that YOU are the one who needs reminding.

Anyway, if you Google [italic]"mia farrow" "roman polanski"[/italic], you see that in February 2014, this "she's great friends with Polanski" meme was launched. But just below those results is the real meat and potatoes of the claim: a 2005 libel case Polanski launched against Vanity Fair, who claimed Polanski was out picking up women while on his way to Sharon Tate's funeral.

See if you can find anything about them since then that isn't just discussion of ROSEMARY'S BABY. You can't. There's a reason for that.

And see if you can find her defending Polanski from the rape charges. You can't. That's because she hasn't.

The absolute worst thing you can say is that she hasn't publicly excoriated Polanski for his crime. It's pretty telling that people like you always -- ALWAYS -- fucking lie about this in these threads, and when called on it, never come back. You just reappear in the next thread and say the same thing.

You're astroturfing. I'd say I hope you got paid for all the work you're doing to rehabilitate Woody's reputation but that would make you a cheap whore, so.

He had to marry Soon-Yi after his nude photo fiasco. Soon-Yi is his prison now. It's quite telling they adopted children rather than her having them.

These days, 30 is the new 50. And even the 50-60 year-old athletic straight guys I know with lives go after 50 year-old women.

The guys you speak of may have 'lives' but they are not well to do career-wise or financially. If the guy has little money he has no choice but to poke old bags. We know a drop-dead hot guy, 43, tall, lean muscular, here who would have hot 20 somethings lined up at his door if he were on the Hershey Highway but since he likes only tuna and has no money (as in net worth less than 100k) he is condemned to poke 50+ year old fish.

[quote]I find it very likely that he married Soon Yi, publicly declaring his love for her in order to try to save his image.

R172, Ray Charles could see that's why he did it. He would have let the relationship with Soon-Yi die a natural death if Mia hadn't flipped out and started accusing him of everything but neo-Nazism.

There are many relationships that Woody Allen has had over the past 40 years. Not all of them were with actresses or people known to the public but they were known around NYC. All of them were with adult women. All of them were age-appropriate (within 10-12 years of each other).

[quote]That's one of Allen's PR talking points, but it's not really true, and we have to debunk it EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THREAD. You have no idea that YOU are the one who needs reminding.

R173, it's just like YOU are the one who needs reminding - in every single fucking thread - that Allen's crack about being caught with 12 year old girls was said jokingly and in a self-deprecating way. You always take it out of context and act as if he made an admission of pedophilia. He didn't.

When I wisecracked to my neighbor that I wanted to kill our other neighbor's dog (awful yapping thing), I was joking, not admitting to homicidal dog-rage. Should she have called the ASPCA? The police? The lesbians? Should there have been threads dedicated to my dog-killing mania? No. Because I was kidding. Yes, I dislike the dog. No, I'm not going to kill the dog. Yes, Woody Allen finds young women attractive. No, he isn't raping children.

Get a hold of yourself, you're an embarrassment.

Is Woody a rice king?

Usually men and homosexuals go that route when they can't get anything better/

not really r177. Soon yi was the first asian he was ever with. (that we know of)

Dear Nancy,

A few weeks later I received his reply: Dear Nancy, Hard to believe you're 13! When I was 13 I couldn't dress myself, and here you write about one of life's deepest philosophical problems, i.e., existential boredom. I guess it's hard for me to imagine a 13-year-old quoting anything but Batman -- but T. Mann? Anyway, there's too much wrong with the world to ever get too relaxed and happy. The more natural state, and the better one, I think, is one of some anxiety and tension over man`s plight in this mysterious universe ... Next time you write, if you ever do, please list some of the books you've enjoyed and movies, and which music you've liked, and also the things you dislike and have no patience with. And tell me what kind of place Coral Gables is. What school do you go to? What hobbies do you have? How old are your parents and what do they do? What are your moods like? Are you energetic? Are you an early riser? Are you "into clothes" ... At the moment, I am re- filming some parts of my next film, which have not come out so good. Best, Woody.

Read the original article at Salon. She was 17 when they filmed Manhattan and 18 when he invited her to go to Paris.

Freaks.

[quote]it's just like YOU are the one who needs reminding - in every single fucking thread - that Allen's crack about being caught with 12 year old girls was said jokingly and in a self-deprecating way. You always take it out of context and act as if he made an admission of pedophilia. He didn't.

Learn to trolldar, dipshit. I've never brought it up, because I don't give a shit about it. Yeah, Allen said blah blah blah about 12-year-old girls. And Alice Cooper said he wanted to find a teenager hitchhiking on the side of the road at night and rape her.

Why do celebs say these things? Because saying outrageous things gets you publicity. Others can bring that interview shit up if they think it matters. I don't.

Although it's hilarious your big "gotcha" in response to what I said was yelling at me for something I didn't do and don't even agree with.

And you didn't even address the real issue: That you're a liar, and Farrow hasn't defended Polanski for being a rapist. She was only called as a witness 10 years ago at a libel trial that had nothing to do with him being a rapist.

Keep fucking that chicken, R176.

"Q: But Soon-Yi is the sister of all those kids. A: Yes, but it’s not that they’re really sisters.

That’s all right then. Note the narrative Woody tries to propagate here — one far more pernicious than the distortion Dylan’s defenders resort to when they accuse him of incest. (True, he was not Soon-Yi’s legal stepfather.) Woody’s story, which he has doubtless passed on to Soon-Yi, is this was never your real family.

Or this, to Time magazine:

Q. Did you talk to your analyst about how this would affect a child? A. It wasn’t so complex. It doesn’t have that quality to it that you think. Q. What about how it would affect her siblings? A. These people are a collection of kids, they are not blood sisters or anything.

“These people are a collection of kids,” he says. They’re not a family. They’re not related by blood. (One wonders why he bothered to adopt four times, if blood was the precondition to family.) To hear Allen tell it, his three children and Mia’s other children are a “collection” of people that happened to include Soon-Yi. Yes, that group happened to live in a house he visited every day for the better part of 12 years, but who’s to say — he really said this in that same interview — he might not have met Soon-Yi “at a party or something”? Yes, Mr. Allen, it’s true that in another timeline you might have met your wife as an adult at a party, but you didn’t: You met her when she was 9 years old and — this is the important thing — ignored her for a decade.

No, Hemingway was 16. I know Salon is going out of their way to say she was 18, but they're deliberately misconstruing the situation.

Read R163 -- Allen started saying he should take her to Paris together when she was filming MANHATTAN. She was 16 at the time.

She was 17 when the film was released in April 1979 -- she didn't turn 18 until several months after, on 22 November 1979. At some point after filming wrapped, Allen showed up at her parents' house, had chartered a jet and said they should go to Paris. She turned him down.

It's possible she was actually 17 when he showed up with the jet and not 18; I'm not sure why Salon says 18, but I hope it's for a solid reason and not because their math is off. It's definite that she was 16 when Allen began suggesting the trip, though.

Most men, gay or straight, prefer young people for sex.

Manhattan is one of my all time favorite movies. I'm the same age as Mariel and the movie seemed so amazingly glamorous and smart and sophisticated to me when I was 17.

The cast is absolutely flawless and the writing is brilliant. Mariel is fantastic in the movie and received the sole acting nomination I think.

The relationship between Tracey and Woody is clearly creepy but I I still LOVE this movie. It's one of the very few I try to watch every year.

Sure, R184, 18 years old. NOT 12 YEARS OLD. That's pedophile stuff.

r184 speak for yourself, creep.

"Most men, gay or straight, prefer young people for sex."

I think women do, too.

Well, the way I look at it is this woman is desperate for publicity. At that age, I was also propositioned by men old enough to be my father. The earth didn't end. I was flattered and moved on. The difference is we both had a choice. That's what makes it so different than the kind of desperation Mia is selling. And we both made the right choice.

Also, we don't have a fourth estate anymore. We have gossip columnist-equivalents pretending to cover news.

"it's just like YOU are the one who needs reminding - in every single fucking thread - that Allen's crack about being caught with 12 year old girls was said jokingly and in a self-deprecating way."

Sigh. Remember the old saying "Many a true word is spoken in jest"?

Everyone's seen cases where that's been true, like when unhappy husbands call their wives "the old ball and chain"; that is a true feeling expressed as a bad joke. So yes, when someone jokes about screwing 12-year-old girls, some of us wonder if there might not be an actual desire to fuck 12-year-old girls, even if the speaker hasn't already show himself to be a Woody-level perv.

He's gross, and anybody with half a brain could see his pedophilia from space. It's the hide in plain sight strategy. Since he's so open, he can't be serious!

Most people who have dealt with him know he's serious. To them it's just the price of doing business, and another rationale is most people in show business are scum.

So there you have it. By Allen's own yardstick his adopted daughters aren't his real family or real daughters. And, by the yardstick of some at datalounge, as long as his daughters are 17, it doesn't matter if he fucks them. If he did anything to them before age 17, well then they or their mama are lying c**ts.

I don't think his movies are good enough to justify this sort of wannabe scorched earth defense, but what do I know.

Regarding the Dear Nancy letter at R179…

In Crimes and Misdemeanors his character often took his young niece to the movies and afterwards he talked excitedly about the film with her. He also showed up at her house to give her a book he was excited about. I don't his deal sexually, but I think there's something about Woody that wants to be friends with a young girl; he wants to share his interests with her and talk about things he's excited about. It's almost like a way to sustain that exciting, interesting stage of the first few dates with someone new, a stage which eventually fades into a different stage of togetherness, i.e., more routine and less new and impressive.

I'm not very insightful, but I wonder if this is a fear of intimacy, of having an adult relationship of growing together and actually having to be the listener sometimes and having to endure the not-so-exciting-moments of real life. Or, did something happen to him at a young age and he didn't mature normally afterwards.

In the letter at R179, he sounds very childlike. Perhaps predators do that on purpose? If so, he and Michael Jackson had the same type of M.O.

* don't "know" his deal sexually ^

Are perverts here defending Woody Allen? Amazing. He is a fucking troll. Adults wanting and seducing underage people for sex is illegal. He is as bad as Polanski.

"I'm not very insightful, but I wonder if this is a fear of intimacy, of having an adult relationship of growing together and actually having to be the listener sometime"

There's definitely a fear of intimacy and equal relationships present in men who go for much younger partners. They don't want to be known, they want a partner who looks up to them and who doesn't understand them or the relationship, who can't see through their lies and bullshit. There's definitely an element of self-loathing, in seeking a partner who understands nothing.

And R193 I think you're on to something about the initial stages of dating. When a straight man gets interested in a straight woman, he tries desperately to impress her, doing everything he can to make her believe that he's smarter, more sophsticated, more successful, more interesting than he really is, even if he has to tell a billion lies to make her believe it. Purely sexual issues aside, the old perv who goes after teenagers wants someone who will believe his beginning-of-courtship lies. Or is that stupid?

I want R153 to come back to say he was misinformed about this:

"Mia, perhaps some people need reminding, is good friends with Roman Polanski."

I know this is a gossip site, but don't make shit up for the sake of winning an argument.

They're all pedophiles. Pedophilia is so common in Hollywood that it only gets attention if the person is very well-known and is outed/accused

King Phillip the 4th of Spain married a 14 year old stinkfish!

R193, pedophiles and people sexually attracted to adolescents often suffer from arrested development emotionally. There is a pernicious cognitive distortion at work in which the adult believes that the child or adolescent who is the object of desire is his (or her) peer.

It is possible that Woody never really moved on from his adolescence psychologically and has remained pathologically fixated upon young girls throughout his adult life.

This is the Michael Jackson-type of sex offender, a sort of real life Peter Pan whose self-image is 'I could never hurt anybody, I'm just a big overgrown kid'. Such offenders can be ruthless behind their charming personae. They are capable of methodically cultivating relationships with adults in order to gain access to potential victims.

Needless to say, such grooming becomes exponentially easier and more effective when there's money and fame involved-- look at how easily Hemingway's parents were apparently swayed into thinking that having a middle-aged man convey their teenage daughter to Paris unescorted by another adult was a swell fucking idea, or how the mother of the victim in the Polanski case practically served her 13 year-old child up on a platter to him. It's gross, but the entertainment industry is rife with such tales of exploitation.

r90 r120 here again.

Once again, posters want to position this attraction to 13 yr old girls or even 15/16 yr old girls to a fringe phenomenon. It is much to universally practiced to be seen as uncommon. Not normal, yes; but common with many men in many diverse cultures. Again, cults religious and in western society are fraught with the practice; even 'gentle cults' like quakers have men marrying 15 yr old girls; unmarried brothers raping their 13 yr old sisters with little consequence (a 60 minute segment show) and quakers are established.

There is not one culture western or eastern or african that does not have astonishing numbers of sexually abused young girls which is permitted especially if it is followed by marriage. eastern European child/young girl sex slave trade is thriving now with gateways that involve Paris and Belgium centers for the these white blond young girls being moved to the middle east and america,

Tell me, who are the customers if the practice is so fringe.....

Many men have daughters at home that they love but compartmentalize their sexual right to prey on young girls.

I am amazed at the horror, damage, and tragedy left behind the male unending pursuit of an orgasm between the legs of young girls.

Manhattan was made in the late 70s--an era known for rules-smashing in the US. People who werent alive then have no idea. All the rules were thrown out and there werent yet restrictions that later were developed. There were no campus conduct codes, no restrictions against professors sleeping with students, no workplace regulation of sex discrimination, nothing regulating bosses from propositioning or sleeping with employees. It was a total free-for-all. Look at the movie Harold and Maude, as an example.

Manhattan would never have been made today. And the movie does poke fun at the relationship with the highschooler. Woody's char says "I'm dating a woman who has homework!" It's a comedy. And they dont end up together. Doesnt he end up with the Diane Keaton char?

That said, even today, an attraction for prepubescent girls & children is not the same as being attracted to young childbearing-age women, I dont think.

Yes, we're creatures of both reason and instinct, and that's why we we live in societies with laws and cultural norms and taboos that are meant to sustain the species. Raping children destroys them - their bodies, their trust, their happiness, their ability to bond with others and provide stability for the next generation. If you're a person of conscience, you have to raise an outcry.

Many believe Woody Allen violated both laws and cultural norms, whether or not he was convicted. He created a brand of "neurosis" hiding his psychosis that he hid behind successfully, much like Cosby hid behind his avuncular "pudding pops" image. It's good to see that people are finally calling him on it.

Well, include me out, r203. I thought Manhattan was better than good, a droll reflection of its times, woody allen at his humorous best.

IMHO there's no credible evidence to date in news accounts, or in his movies, that woody allen is or has ever been a kiddie fiddler. Sorry, just not buying it.

Liking young women is not the same as pedophilia.

Liking young women is different than banging them. Latter is illegal.

R204,

[quote]IMHO there's no credible evidence to date in news accounts, or in his movies, that woody allen is or has ever been a kiddie fiddler.

Dylan had a lot to say in news accounts about his "kiddie fiddling" with her.

I agree with R204 - there's no real evidence against him. If there were, some ambitious DA would have charged him years ago. I also agree with the posters who differentiate between raping toddlers and fucking 16-19 year old young women.

Allen has lampooned his own silly attraction to younger women in his films. I don't believe he ever molested Dylan. I don't believe he molested Soon-Yi when she was under-age. I do believe that Mia Farrow is a toxic narcissist and poor Mariel Hemingway must be hard-up for work.

I guess the burden of proof is higher for Woody Allen on DL than some other notable pervs. Interesting. . .

[quote]I agree with [R204] - there's no real evidence against him.

You don't believe Dylan, the person who says he molested her? The person with nothing to gain from the accusation?

No, I don't believe Dylan and I don't believe Mia. It's obvious what happened, it's become a commonplace "tactic" in bitter divorces. I'm surprised that any intelligent person believes these accusations.

Mia and Woody were never married. There was no bitter divorce.

Fish are disgusting.

R207 and R210 has to be a joke. "It's obvious what happened" he says as he talks about a divorce [italic]that never happened.[/italic] As he says some ambitious DA would have charged Allen, somehow missing the fact that the DA Frank S. Maco tried, but was thwarted thanks to political pressure.

Dude, what gets into your head that makes you think that, though you haven't got even the BASICS of a situation, you somehow understand all the intricacies and are the only "intelligent" person in the discussion?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I find Mariel's story about Allen vaguely creepy.

It's creepy because he didn't openly express his interest, he didn't romance her or flirt with her. He just tried to get her into a situation where she couldn't get away from him.

Guys hit on flat chested Mariel.....what a crime! Eric Roberts did a nice job on that film.He was much hotter than the fugly Allen,quasi Italian DeNiro and the very blah Fosse.She have at the very least given him a blow job.Oh Eric was in character that is how dedicated he is.if

"Guys hit on flat chested Mariel.....what a crime"

Ugly old men shouldn't be hitting on attractive much younger people. Don't they know how gross that is for the younger person?

Meh. Rich, powerful, old men have always fucked/married young women. Julius Caesar and his colleagues did it all the time.

It's not a new phenomenon. It's not a modern social ill. It's human nature and it's the way of the world. Rant and rave all you want, it's not going anywhere in your lifetime nor in the lifetime of anyone now living.

The best thing that you can do is to support educational and professional opportunities for young women (and young men for that matter, they are often sexually exploited). That means everywhere, in all walks of life and in all cultures/countries. If they have an education and marketable skills they just might be able to escape at some point and survive.

FYI, Mariel Hemingway, Woody Allen, Soon-Yi Previn, Dylan Allen and Mia Farrow are not good examples for your arguments. The whole thing is about as clear as molasses with that crowd. They all have huge mental health issues. There is too much show business, too much gray, too much that has never been proven, too much anger and vindictive or questionable behavior from everyone involved.

Find better examples to use as a springboard for discussion, if discussion is what you're after. If you just want to kick the shit out of Woody Allen without any proof then carry on.

R218: meh. People have always been homophobic. No biggie.

I guess R219 managed to shut up R218. Tee hee.

R219 FTW!

Fosse told Mariel he slept with all his leading ladies except Shirley MacLaine.

He did Liza?!?!

Wow, no love lost between those two.

"Meh. Rich, powerful, old men have always fucked/married young women."

Look at marriage statistics - most men marry women who are just a few years younger. There has never been an epidemic of middle-aged men marrying teenagers.

Woody has always been a sick, ugly old perv.

Dear Nancy,

Hard to believe you’re 13! When I was 13 I couldn’t dress myself, and here you write about one of life’s deepest philosophical problems, i.e., existential boredom. I guess it’s hard for me to imagine a 13-year-old quoting anything but Batman – but T. Mann? Anyway, there’s too much wrong with the world to ever get too relaxed and happy. The more natural state, and the better one, I think, is one of some anxiety and tension over man's plight in this mysterious universe …

Next time you write, if you ever do, please list some of the books you’ve enjoyed and movies, and which music you’ve liked, and also the things you dislike and have no patience with. And tell me what kind of place Coral Gables is. What school do you go to? What hobbies do you have? How old are your parents and what do they do? What are your moods like? Are you energetic? Are you an early riser? Are you “into clothes” … At the moment, I am re- filming some parts of my next film, which have not come out so good.

Best, Woody. (Age 42)

[quote] Liking young women is not the same as pedophilia.

Gays have the same debate regarding aficionados of twinks and college jocks.

Yeah, OP, I can see no difference either.

At that age, she looked like Kurt Cobain if he shaved.

She didn't like kissing him apparently.

She did get an Oscar nom for her performance though.