Why are most gays in the closet

[quote[why do we tolerate it

I don't know. It's intolerable.

(the closet, that is.)

Many Democrats are closeted too

Who says "most" gays are in the closet?

Oh flabaliki

It's freaky

How there's lemon, fresh and boron

In you

IN YOU

What's the alternative to tolerance? Getting gay mobs together to pull closeted people out of their houses in the middle of the night and publicly tar and feather them unless they admit they love cock? Maybe gay hackers could form a gay Anonymous group and systematically leak the web browsing histories of closeted gay politicians and celebrities.

Many reasons.

I don't tolerate it. But I try to understand it. My brothers and sisters are still my brothers and sisters even if they don't want to accept me.

R5, I'd be okay with hacking closeted antigay politicians

From my experience, and this is only my experience, closeted gay men were difficult to hang out with. They were always tense and uptight, and all of them seemed to be homophobic using the f-word and other homophobic slurs. It took a lot of energy to hang out with them. That's why, now in my thirties, I don't anymore. But, I am in my thirties so if I were still hanging out with closeted gay men, I would really have examine myself in terms of my maturity and emotional growth, as well as integrity. But, I can't imagine a gay man in his thirties who is still closeted either. The closet is for teenagers.

r8, Closeted gay women are the same. They are very uncomfortable around gay people

[quote]Maybe gay hackers could form a gay Anonymous group and systematically leak the web browsing histories of closeted gay politicians and celebrities.

This would be a very very good thing. A very, very good thing. This needs to happen. A revolution of outing these closeted millionaire assholes. That would be so amazing.

OP, we don't know how many gay guys are out vs closeted.

Why do we tolerate it? Because someone's sexual orientation and how open they are with it is their business, not ours. While it would be ideal for us to all live in a world where we could all be out, unfortunately not everyone has the same opportunities. Some people are in environments and surrounded by people where coming out could be harmful and in some cases, dangerous. And while you could retort that those people should just change their environments, it is not always that easy. We cannot judge the openness of others based off of the circumstances that we have.

The one exception I think though is closeted gay people in power (i.e. politicians) who try to harm the gay community. Those people I fully condone outing.

Not just politicans, R7. Oh, no. oh no no no. All of them.

r11, The more we tolerate the closet, the more homophobia will prevail. Celebrities are selfish hypocrites who could care less for their fellow gays

I don't get the feeling most people are in the closet at all.

Focus on yourself, OP. You will be a happier person.

I'm in the closet and I don't give a fuck if you "tolerate" it or not.

My choice.

R14, you must not get out much dude. Surveys confirm it and your personal experience should too. Even amongst people who identity as gay in surveys, a huge percentage say they are not out at work, with family, or at church.

Well, it depends on what the definition of out is, which no one can seem to define. Do I identify as a gay man? Yes. Would I ever deny if asked directly? No. Do I keep it quiet at work? Yes. Would I deny it at work if asked? No. I would imagine that means I am not out by some people's standards and out by others. To me the lynchpin is how does a person identify? How they choose to go about it is their business for their reasons. I can't control it and I won't bully anybody about their choices so long as they do no harm as a result.

You are a voice of reason, R11.

Thank you R19

Most same-sex oriented pekoe don't even admit it to themselves, let alone others

Family backgrounds? Religion?

Love me some R11 and R18! Will either of you marry me?

There is no reasoning with the closet. They should all be outed. If a gay person outs some gay guy down the street, that his prerogative. There is no harm in a gay person speaking openly about another gay person.

If you don't "condone" outing, don't do it. Do as the "pro-closet" people say, "mind your own business".

r24, nails it

What evidence is there that most gays are in the closet? I think it's just that there are few men who are exclusively homosexual and there's no incentive to come out as bisexual.

fear...intolerance...religion

Because, despite what people say on camera, or in public, much of the world does not accept gays any more than they accept blacks. It has always been this way, and it will always be this way. Fairness and equality sadly do not exist in this world.

ironically, blacks are the most homophobic group

They are chicken shits.

A closeted femme gay woman said to me recently, it's the effeminates and the stud lesbians who keep gay people in closet

R29, it's old people and conservative people who are the most antigay

r32, gays are hated by a lot of Democrats too trust..

" there's no incentive to come out as bisexual"

Ain't it the truth! A bisexual man is better off* marrying and cheating on his wife than coming out, because neither straights nor gays fully accept bisexuals.

* Better off before the divorce, anyway.

R33, you obviously aren't familiar with statistics. Dems support us far more than conservatives. You are just a dumb republican.

If dipshits like Cruise, Spacey, and Travolta are in the closet, I'll merely boycott all their films and make sure that others know what creeps they are.

But when it comes to a closeted jackass like Schock who votes for laws that harm gays, I'll campaign around the clock to get the bitch exposed.

R34, There are many wives who are realistic about their husband's affairs, as long as they're kept quiet ie on a business trip.

[quote]Why are most gays in the closet And i mean they are deeply in closet. Also, why do we tolerate it?

I'm in it for the moth balls.

Yummers.

It's 2015. The only gays still in the closet are cowards and the elderly.

OP, Can you honestly say that you've never encountered discrimination in seeking a place to live or in finding work in your field? How about subtle nasty comments behind your back, or in dealing with service personnel?

I know a family in New Jersey with a closeted husband and wife and two kids. The daughter's husband and the son's fiancee are also closeted. So that's at least six closet cases in one family, more obviously if you count boyfriends and girlfriends of the parents.

R18 - I'm exactly the same. Not in the closet but I don't broadcast it at work either.

For all of you young people who think the world is 100% OK about gays - I've got news for you.

There are still plenty of bigots and people who will be nasty and try to undercut you at work.

Religious beliefs and the perception that gay men are feminine are the biggest reason. And oh, being openly gay will get you killed, imprisoned, or ostracized in most of the world.

Because they live in areas where gays are not welcome and/or come from families which are hostile to gays. Also, leaving is not an option for them like it is for so many other gays.

[quote]OP, Can you honestly say that you've never encountered discrimination in seeking a place to live or in finding work in your field? How about subtle nasty comments behind your back, or in dealing with service personnel?

Of course, straight people NEVER have to deal with subtle nasty comments or job/living discrimination.

That shit can happen to anyone.

You're just making excuses because you're too cowardly to come out.

I work in financial services. As much as I wish it wasn't so, its not as widely accepted as it should be, although we are making progress. And I don't think anyone should be primarily identified by their race, preferences, or lifestyle, but I don't rule the world. It happens, and I understand people who are uncomfortable feeling that exposing themselves could threaten their livelihood.

Things are changing, but slowly. So give some people a break, and your support when they decide to do things in their own time

R45 - you're tedious and immature. Things are not that cut and dry. How old are you?

Old enough to have been completely out of the closet in my entire, successful career.

Stop being a coward and stop making excuses, R47.

R48, You are very lucky to be in a financial position or/and to live in a city and work in a profession where you can live your life on your own terms. I know of many who would envy you.

I appreciate the candor of those of you who admit that you're not really out at work.

Your reasons are your own.

But don't expect me to throw a fucking parade for you, or welcome you to mine.

I earned my right to march.

Because the gay community gives them a pass, of course.

I don't tolerate it, and I'm not against outing a public figure AT ALL. Their lives aren't on the line, they're just pathetic, self-loathing cowards.

Agree [52] - you said what I was thinking

R45/R48 - and what city and career would that be?

You get zero points if it's New York or you work in advertising, the arts or even law.

And how long of a career? You don't hit real discrimination until you're in upper management/executive positions as leaders or being the face of the company.

Thank you R11

Because of society, dumbass. Straight will always be the norm, that will never change.

[quote]I'm exactly the same. Not in the closet but I don't broadcast it at work either.

Not only is that closeted, but something you regard as shameful as well.

Sunday mornings bring out the closet cases in droves. This thread was great until today. Shouldn't you all be at church?

R57 - there's a difference between lying and being in the closet and not talking about your personal life at work. I wish more would do the same. If someone asks me at work if I'm gay, I tell them yes.

That's not in the closet. What exactly do you do and where do you live that you're so brave to be out?

Wow, I cannot believe how judgmental some gay people are to other gay people.

R24 and R57 , that is not closeted. Not broadcasting your personal life in the workplace has nothing to do with shame. Would you say that a person is ashamed of any detail of their life, family history, genetics, blood type, religion, race, if they don't talk about it 24/7?

There is something really wrong with some of these radical gay people. Maybe to you guys being gay is a huge part of who you are and is the essence of your identity. Maybe it's one of the first things you tell people about yourself and you bring it up in every conversation. And if that's the case good for you, but not everyone is like that. Trying to label and insult other gay people just because you believe you have to wear a big neon sign saying "GAY" in order to be out is not only wrong, it is just plain stupid. Whose making gay such a big deal now? Homophobes or you?

For those of you who say you don't broadcast your sexuality at work but would not deny it, what do you say when others talk about their love/family life? Do you stay mute or do you mention your partner/bf? Isn't staying silent tantamount to staying in the closet?

R61 - just because someone brings something up, you don't necessarily have to do a quid pro quo. You can ask further questions if they want to talk about it more and offer congrats or sympathy.

Unless they ask directly, why bring it up? I've never been in a situation where people are forcing people to talk about their personal lives.

Also, you can always talk in generalities - "in my past relationships, such and such and such". Relationships among people and issues are the same whether you're gay or straight.

They are trying to locate the travel bag that fits into the overhead compartment as they jet off to the White Party.

"There is something really wrong with some of these radical gay people. Maybe to you guys being gay is a huge part of who you are and is the essence of your identity. Maybe it's one of the first things you tell people about yourself and you bring it up in every conversation."

Um, aren't love, sex, marriage, and dating huge parts of everyone's lives?

Because where else would you find more fashionable clothes?

R64 - yes and they are conversations you keep with friends and family typically.

I know some people are married at work - but I don't even know their spouses' names. The most you hear is about their kids sometimes.

Generally no one talks about that stuff - unless they're gossiping about someone's divorce.

People in their 20's are more likely to talk about that - when you're older, there's less of that type of conversation.

[quote]For those of you who say you don't broadcast your sexuality at work but would not deny it, what do you say when others talk about their love/family life?

Past a certain level on the org chart, this doesn't happen the way this post imagines. Maybe people down the org chart have time to talk at length about their private/personal lives but after certain levels it's not a social club and it's quite easy and fairly typical for gay and straight people not to talk anything about their private/personal lives.

Now, can someone guess I'm gay because I'm over 30, unmarried and have no personal photos of the kids on my office shelves? Probably. No one's asked, either.

I'd be curious to understand the details of R48's long and successful career as well. After all, he's waaaaay out there, so details to paint a clear picture shouldn't pose any risk.

[quote]Past a certain level on the org chart, this doesn't happen the way this post imagines.

Really? Because I'm an intern and I always hear the doctors talking about their wives/husbands and children. Guess they aren't high up on that org chart.

Being out and proud is one thing, being closeted and homophobic though shouldn't be tolerated

I was talking about corporate offices. The entire culture of physicians is based on showing off. They're usually science geeks with no social skills and very ambitious lower middle class wives who are going to show the world.

R69 - you're an intern - at what? And how old are you?

As an intern you're way too young to know how things are going to turn out and have not dealt with higher ups as upper management or as a peer.

I DO think you'll have it easier as most of the major homophobes are late 40's and older. As they move out of the picture, things will become more accepting.

But they're currently in charge and some of them are just not open to gays and don't want to see them or be around them. Period.

[quote]there's a difference between lying and being in the closet and not talking about your personal life at work.

I agree. Being in a same-sex marriage is enough for people at work to know, when you're there for just one thing - WORK! That's a big difference from the professional gays who decorate their cubes and FB pages with rainbow flags and post pictures of Pride parades and their latest kitchen creation. Their jobs have them in cubes where they sometimes do a bit of work in between chatting with the other pathetic cube denizens. Their lives will never move beyond being a gay.

I want to maintain a certain level of masculinity, so no, I won't come out of the closet.

I don't know a single closeted gay male. I don't think many people are in the closet nowadays at all.

Walk around HK and Chelsea and tell me these guys are closeted. What a laugh.

It's 2015. People are out and have been for years.

[quote]you're an intern - at what? And how old are you?

I'm in med school. I'm 24 and I deal with higher-ups every day. They are my teachers and mentors.

I think this thread needs to define what "in the closet" means.

Not out to friends and family? Closet. Make up romances about women that aren't true? Closet.

However, not talking about your personal life at work does not fit the description of being in the closet. Particularly if people ask and you say yes.

Your co-workers are your co-workers, not your friends or family. You can be friendly with them but know that it is a work environment and not everyone can be trusted.

Because, despite what we are led to believe by Hollywood, government, and other non-connectias to reality - there is still NO GREATER disgrace for a man than to be known as a homosexual.

And THAT is the only reason that most sisters are 'in the closet' aka married to fish, etc.

r75, I'm not sure the guys in Chelsea represent all gays

r73, if straight people post pictures of their spouses and kids are they professional straights?

Because I want a home a wife and children. I'm not going to find a woman who can offer me that if she knows I like a man in my bed once in a while. So I will remain closeted, but when I find a woman, I will have to give up men since I believe in mongo only )so) even of the woman if cool about my liking guys, cheating is cheating. Actually I intend to tell the woman I love, when I find one that I am bi, but also that I am 100 percent committed to her and her alone.

R79 - R73 said posting pics of gay pride parades and such. That's not the same thing.

And Chelsea / HK gays are certainly not going against the grain by being out.

Do you play "the pronoun game" at work, ie, using "they" instead of "he, she" and gendered pronouns when any discussion of your personal life, past or present comes up? With colleagues, bosses, the maintenance staff?

Do you?

If you do, you're closeted at work. You're not "not talking about personal life"--you're deliberately withholding a major truth about yourself and your life from those around you.

It's not about Pride flags at your cubicle. It's about truth to who you are.

I honestly have no experience with all these people discussing their private lives at length with colleagues, bosses, the maintenance staff. I don't have to govern my pronouns. I don't talk that way with people I work with. I work with them.

Maybe I have only ever worked in cold, distant places but here's what will be said to a colleague Monday morning when I arrive:

Hey, how are you? Good weekend?

Yeah, You?

Yeah.

Cold, eh?

Yeah, it got cold.

Here's what will be said to a boss when I arrive:

Morning. How are you?

Good, thanks. How are you?

Here's what will be said to reception:

Morning.

Here's what will be said to maintenance:

R82 - so what? Again, your co-workers and colleagues are not your friends. Some can become friends, but most are work acquaintances.

Gays can still be fired in most states based on the simple admission of being gay. Get your head out of your ass.

It's not all New York or San Francisco in the world.

[quote]I honestly have no experience with all these people discussing their private lives at length with colleagues, bosses, the maintenance staff.

I agree. That's for low level people who have jobs, not professions.

Because have you already seen a proud out-of-the-closet actor play a super hero?

Me neither.

Regarding the number of gays in the closet, there is a really interesting book called Dataclysm. It's about online dating statistics in general, not just gay stuff, but there's a chapter about gay dating that is really interesting. Basically, online data shows that people in the more liberal, gay-friendly states are more likely to identify as gay than people in the red states. This could mean that gays are more likely to move to states where they feel welcome, but the % of online porn searches that are gay-specific is about the same in every state. Meaning that there are probably about the same % of gays in every state, the blue state gays are just more likely to be honest about it. The data shows that probably fewer that half of all gays in the less tolerant states are out...

Agree, R85. My admin comes in my office too often and unloads every detail of her life until I have to make up a reason to get her to move on. I don't care that her latest boyfriend's tattoo got infected, but I get to know. Most days I wish she was gay and hiding it, I'd get more done and be less bored - and not infrequently kind of appalled.

Senior Manager position in the automotive industry. Live in the Midwest. Out and Proud.

I don't think we should confuse people who prefer to be private with their love lives with people whom you feel are "in the closet" - some people are merely private, not closeted. I know many straight people who keep their partners and their relationships to themselves too. Gay guys whose personalities are just naturally more effeminate inadvertently get outed by their own behavior and mannerisms - and I sense there is some resentment from these folks towards gay guys with more masculine personalities and characteristics, for "slipping under the radar" so to speak, even though they may not even be consciously trying to do so - they're just being themselves too. To me, someone who is "in the closet" is someone actively trying to hide/deny they are gay intentionally. Besides, it's not always convenient to not ping as "gay" to others, because you're constantly having to explain it to them and correct them when they assume you're straight. I can't stand when someone tries to fix me up with one of their female friends who is single, or I'm at a work-related dinner with a vendor and they want to take me to some titty bar strip club, or they make some gay jokes not realizing I'm in fact gay myself. I'd much rather all these people knew in advance and just kept their mouths shut.

[quote] I sense there is some resentment from these folks towards gay guys with more masculine personalities and characteristics, for "slipping under the radar" so to speak,

Great excuse if it were only true. You would not know I was gay if I didn't tell you, but I have no intention of trying to 'pass' for straight. I have nothing to be ashamed of.

What data are you using to base your statement on that "most" are in the closet, OP?

Or is this you having a moment that, because you know three people who are, the entire world will be held to account for your myopic worldview?

[quote]Gay guys whose personalities are just naturally more effeminate inadvertently get outed by their own behavior and mannerisms - and I sense there is some resentment from these folks towards gay guys with more masculine...

And this wall of text spiraled into a homophobic tirade. And, just so you know, there is nothing manly or masculine about being in the closet. That's quite weak and sissy, a stereotype of gay men. Or, is it a stereotype? I think so of closeted gay men.

You are also wrong about the "just private" part. They are not "just private" they are just ashamed of who they are. It's just an excuse to stay in the closet.

If you were openly gay R90, they would not "fix you up with females" which I'm not sure how try that even is but I'll take your word for it.

Come out of the closet.

R82, I don't usually mention anything about my sexual orientation, or politics, or the fact that I'm an atheist for that matter, to new coworkers, especially when I'm the one entering into a new workplace and getting acclimated. I would rather people actually get to know me better first - there is a lot more to me than just my sexual orientation. To each their own, but I kind of feel like I have the upper hand on the situation, if I get a chance to read people first and figure out who (if any) the bigots are, and who is going to give me trouble once they find out.

I think most on this site are closeted. 1/4 are closeted here.

The nastiest people I met when I came out in college were the other gay people. It made me regret coming out at all. They were the last people on earth to trust or call family or friends. Other people I have spoke to have had similar experiences. I believe that those nasty, backstabbing, gossipy types hate themselves, so they make life miserable for other gays. They are jealous of others, maybe.

Excuse me R93, but who made you the authority on deciding of someone is "in the closet" or not? I've been out for nearly 20 years now, so you can keep accusing me of being in the closet all you want, just because I may not have the same interests, mannerisms or personality as you, but I'm not. I've dealt with bitter bitches like you many times - you can't "out" someone that's already out to begin with. Assholes like you enjoy making spiteful threats to "out" others you resent. Just because I can care less about Liza, Madonna, Sex In The City, Maybelline, Downton Abbey, Glee, and I don't walk around 24/7 humming "Holiday" to myself, or practicing dance routines, doesn't mean I'm "In the closet".

r96 is not gay, but a straight homophobic troll. It's straight people who persecute us, sponsor and vote for anti-gay legislation, etc.

r96 It's ridiculous to think that straight people don't experience a lot of asshole behavior from their "own kind".

Come on R96, you're now on a gay gossip site that specializes in "bitchery". You're no different than the people you associated with in college. A bird of a feather after all.

[quote]the closet all you want, just because I may not have the same interests, mannerisms or personality as you...

Where in the world did I describe myself to you? LOL. I mean, how on earth do you know my "interests, mannerisms or personality?". Wow. You have some anger against feminine gay men,

[quote]Assholes like you enjoy making spiteful threats to "out" others you resent

Oh dear...I think you're projecting your anger of feminine gay men onto me.

[quote]Just because I can care less about Liza, Madonna, Sex In The City, Maybelline, Downton Abbey, Glee, and I don't walk around 24/7 humming "Holiday" to myself, or practicing dance routines, doesn't mean I'm "In the closet".

Oh my....LOL. How do I respond to this? I mean, I don't know.

You have a lot of anger towards feminine gay men. You need to take a break from this thread I think, it's making you extremely upset.

R100, you have a lot of obvious anger towards other gay men who don't fit your narrow minded caricature of how we should all act dress and behave.

R5, how do we get that anonymous outing group rolling?

R100 is a tired old theatre queen. Thankfully, a dying breed

Because most people want to be normal and accepted. Few can deal with being viewed as an ungodly pernicious dinner, pervert, gender non conforming, or subversive. Most want to fit in and be accorded.

Tea room queen!

Is the irony lost on some gay people for incessantly accusing other gay men of being "in the closet" for not acting "gay enough" to their liking? It's no different than straight guys making fun of their "bros" for not acting "straight" enough.

I would love to hear what the specific criteria are for being deemed "in the closet/homophobic/self-hating-gay". Someone already mentioned the "pronoun game", so that's a start...

Is there some "quota" that I need to meet each day proclaiming my sexual orientation to all those around me in every facet of my life, from home to work to leisure? Maybe I should just practice stopping random people on the street and letting them know I'm gay too? Or schedule some "reminder" emails to go out to all my coworkers on a weekly basis?

Are my movie/music/literary interests atypical of the gay population in general, and therefore offensive? Obviously, I know better than to walk into a gay bar and play Mastodon on the jukebox, but when I'm at home, what should I do?

Am I walking too rigidly? Not dropping enough crass gay innuendos into my small talk with others? I'd love to know.

Gays like OP actually hates himself more than a closeted guy hates himself.

How does one count gays that are deep in the closet? A gaygacounter?

You need to act like an adult, R106. Being an adult means taking responsibility of who you are and your life. And that means coming out to all those around you. That's the quota: Being an adult.

R106, you sound like homophobic right wingers, who think being out means "proclaiming" your sexuality. No, it just means being as honest about your partners as straight people are about theirs. They don't lie about their partners or play the pronoun game

r106 Don't lie. A lie by omission is still a lie. Don't be evasive. Don't confuse shame with privacy. Stand up for who you are and how you live in the face of ignorance and bigotry, it's called self-respect - not "proclaiming" or pushing your sexuality onto others. Own who you are and the people you love, openly and proudly. Love is a powerful thing, cliche or not.

In other words, be a man.

I know several people in their late 20's who are still in the closet, but I also live in a town with less than 150,000 people in it, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Why are most 'out and proud' homosexuals on drugs?

great ? MPC!

[quote]Why are most 'out and proud' homosexuals on drugs?

Because they're fun?

because most "out and proud" are so flaming or bulldykish no one will go near them and they use drugs to feel the emptiness

fill lol

Most of you prefer to get fucked by masculine closeted dudes anyway, so I don't see where the outrage is coming from.

r116 I'm not flaming or bulldykish (wtf? the word is butch). But I AM stoned at this very moment and still able to type and use grammar better than you.

Where do you live R116? Try walking down 9th ave and tell me that you don't see plenty of out and proud gays, even holding hands, who are totally normal and masculine. MOST gays are fairly straight-acting.

R120, not the open ones. You can't be into Lady Gaga, divas, and speedos, and be masculine too.

So we've gone from society not tolerating homosexuals to gays asking why "we" tolerate people being in the closet.

You do realize that The Closet doesn't refer to a wardrobe, where you keep your clothes, but to the water closet, public restrooms, where men would cruise for hookups, right?

I, simply put, don't care for gay culture. I don't want to live on that reservation. I live my life on my own terms, and I'm not accountable to fanatics who loathe homosexuality or to assholes like OP who try and establish some kind of kinship or ownership over all on "The Tribe".

Frankly, I'm a guy attracted to masculinity. Not some grotesque fetish theatrical delusion. Not to ficjs, or holrs. The guy next door. 97% of whom are attracted to women.

I find stereotypical gay culture tedious and fatous. OP's "why do we tolerate it?" only reinforces that assessment.

I'm not locked in the water closest fucking around. I'm not on a float wearing a gokd Speedo and fairy wings.

What's it to ya, OP?

Yeah, most masculine bisexual and gay dudes don't even view themselves as such, let alone publicly identify you as such. Masculine men can blend in, and few are willing to undermine their masculine privilege by associating with gayness.

[quote]Frankly, I'm a guy attracted to masculinity.

Oh, lord - another "masculine" queen who doesn't realize how flaming HE is.

It is neither good or bad, but most openly gay men display attributes that are viewed as feminine by the masses, including liking women's music, women's tv shows, calling men female pronouns, hand gestures, not liking aggressive big team sports, and yes, wearing speedos.

[quote]It is neither good or bad, but most openly gay men display attributes that are viewed as feminine by the masses, including liking women's music, women's tv shows, calling men female pronouns, hand gestures, not liking aggressive big team sports, and yes, wearing speedos.

None of those things you listed apply to me except the one about not liking sports. So because I don't like sports, I'm feminine? Jesus, you are fucking stupid.

Good point, r123

R124 Case in point. When I say I'm attracted to masculinity, it means that I'm a man who doesn't have sexual desire for Kate Upton, ad most men would. That is atypical in men.

OTOH, I have zero interest in a guy like Neil Patrick Harris. Or a bitchy,gossipy, acid douchebag like yourself.

I'm attracted to masculinity. Not some freakshow in a leather outfit, just a guy. If he's tall, handsome, athletic, I'm more attracted.

I've never been promiscuous. Don't fuck guys I'm not into just for fuck's sake.

If I was attracted to Kate Upton, I'd be just another suburban dad. If I was around a younger Kyle Chandler or Michael Weatherly or Philip Rivers, I'd probably have an involuntary erection starting.

Around Zachary Quinto, or Ryan Murphy? Nope. Even Matt Bomer, who's handsome, but...just doesn't click. Nor does DL fave Chris Meloni. Too forced

Trust me, if given a choice to take a shot that'd rewrite my DNA so that Kate Upton -would- give me a boner, or live on a reservation with the likes of OP and you, gimme the shot, no qualms. But I'd rather just be myself. And if my dating pool was tge cast of "Enlisted", all the better.

I know one whose wife threatened to kill him if he ever came out. As she is a bulldyke who never even liked him, it's a safe bet she'd make good on her threat.

Why do feminine guys insult dudes by calling them "queens" or other anti feminine terms? Why perpetuate anti feminine sentiment too?

r128 The fact that you shit all over (and stereotype) guys who don't live up to your high MASCULINE ideal only shows how insecure you are.

That you admit that you'd happily take a "shot" to change your sexuality, well I'm not sure what that shows, but I doubt it's healthy.

Certainly in our society, people question your masculinity if you don't like the big team sports. Heck, they think you are a weirdo and unAmerican of you don't like football.

I notice how on dating sites guys try to quiz you to see if you meet their standard of masculinity. They ask what are your interests to see if you have any non masculine interests that will disqualify you. During football season, they ask what you are doing, and if you are not watching football, they assume you are not masculine.

If a guy tells me he's watching football on TV I assume he's fat and stupid.

I don't have a partner. Most gay men reject me because I'm too old, too fat, or "sex negative" because I have no tolerance for acting like an adolescent when it comes to sex.

Am I just supposed to tell everybody how much I wish I had a boyfriend or a partner or a husband? Because I think we can all agree where my story ranks as interesting conversation. And if I don't, am I then closeted?

Honestly I truly feel like it's none of my business who is out or not. I would encourage others to be out but if not? well, their loss. Everyone has to live with their own conscience and if that means you are not being true to yourself it again is your issue not mine.

R131 If we're supportive of people like Chaz Bono, Bruce Jenner and Bradley/Chelsea Manning, who feel they were born in the wrong body and want to fix their problem surgically, why isn't it healthy for a heterosexual man born in a homosexual man's body to seek similar relief?

Rather than "a shot", if there existed a hormonal or neuroplasticity therapeutic regimen that allowed people to alter what they perceive as an error, would you judge them, call it unhealthy.

I don't mean people happy being born as gay men or women, I specifically mean people who "feel" that they were meant to be straight, but were born in biologically homosexual bodies. The same way Chelsea Manning "knows" she should have been born with a female body.

If their path to self-determination lead to this (hypothetical) therapy that changed their bodies to be the ones that match their minds, we should celebrate their diversity, not judge.

R128 get over it! no ones ever want FUCK you,too.

"Fellow gays"?

How many fellowships start with this combative condescending?

Why presume you're entitled to an intimate bond with flickering images on a giant screen?

(Other than you're going nuts without it in your grasp?)

What's your moral superiority as a peer to "fellow gays" in your proximity? How sure are you those faraway "non-fellow gays" are not doing good in their own ways (without reporting to you)?

Repetitive whittling away. No vision and do-able steps and plans in "service" of YOUR "fellow gays". Locked in constant obsessive antagonism with Totems in your cognitive loop.

...well, there's always DL for those!

We HATE fish!

Fish are icky, stinky, cheap, stupid, boring and no fun at all.

We believe that men are not really that attracted to them but more likely it is the fish who capture the men.

It was horrible when I came out to my family. All the worst fears I had about how they really felt about me if they knew I was gay came true and more. I'm glad I came out. At least I know now. But I completely understand why many don't want to.

Only the dimmest people cannot tell a man or woman is gay. So the act of coming out is merely making it official. I would imagine that parents and siblings prefer to hold on to that pointless hope that their son/daughter might experience an epiphany and revert back to hetero attraction.

In 50 years, there has never been a person who came out and it was a surprise(famous or otherwise.) It will be nice someday when no one has to come out. They can just be who they are like everyone else. Straight people don't make a declaration that they are straight. The day will come when Justin can ask Christopher to the Homecoming Dance and no one says "aha!! that's interesting"

Why? Here's why:

The Hershey Highway is the road to misery unless you: 1) are under 45 and drop dead gorgeous and/or 2) have 10 inches or more and/or 3) have $10 million or more

That's why!

In a nutshell^^^^^.

R142, that will never happen because religious beliefs will endure that say it is a sin to engage in same sex behavior.

R150, you're part of the problem, dude.

Can Men Have Sex With Men and Still Call Themselves Straight? "I'm not sure there's a name for what I am,' says Dillon, a college hockey player. Welcome to the world of the mostly straights. By Kenneth M. Cohen, Ritch C. Savin-Williams / The Good Men Project November 15, 2010

Print 126 COMMENTS

Dillon, a college varsity hockey goalie, is an eager volunteer for our interview. In fact, he so loves telling his story that he stays beyond the 90 minutes he believes it will take, and offers to come back for the chance to talk some more. When we reschedule, he’s thrilled, and shakes my hand and thanks me four times in the process of leaving.

Besides being remarkably polite, Dillon is talkative, self-aware, and reflective, with an engaging smile and an at-ease quality. Nothing he says feels rehearsed. It’s as if each topic brings forth another triumph, as if he’s discovering his life as he reflects on the questions.

When eventually asked about his sexuality, Dillon isn’t fazed. Though he wants to “fuck lots of girls” before graduation, he’s not entirely heterosexual. “I’m not sure there’s a name for what I am,” he says. He wants this process, this interview, to help him figure it out.

♦♦♦

By his own admission, Dillon says he resides in the “Sexual Netherlands” (his words), a place that exists between heterosexuality and bisexuality. In previous generations, such individuals might have been described as “straight but not narrow,” “bending a little,” and “heteroflexible.”

Dillon is part of a growing trend of young men who are secure in their heterosexuality and yet remain aware of their potential to experience far more—sexual attractions, sexual interactions, crushes, and, occasionally romantic relationships with other guys. Dillon lives these contradictions—seemingly hetero guys who now reject that label, sexual description, and identity.

And he is not alone. National surveys in the U.S. and Canada show that 3 to 4 percent of male teenagers, when given the choice to select a term that best describes their sexual feelings, desires, and behaviors, opt not for heterosexual, bisexual, or gay, but for “mostly” or “predominantly” heterosexual.

An even higher percentage of post-high-school young-adult men in the U.S. and in a handful of other countries (including New Zealand and Norway) make the same choice. There are now more young men who feel they are “mostly straight” than who say they are bisexual or gay.

To the uninitiated, “mostly straight” is a paradox. These young men fracture the heterosexual agenda—or do we call it a lifestyle? If a guy is not exclusively into girls, he can’t be totally straight. Aren’t you supposed to pick a side?

If a guy is not straight, not bisexual, and not gay—and yet still falls in love and gets an erection—what the hell is he?

It’s a common misconception that the “mostly straight” phenomenon is nothing more than an adolescent foray into sexual experimentation, possibly due to excessive hormones and sexual confusion.

Sizable numbers of young men maintain their “mostly straight” status—not just as adolescents or college students, but as adults. Of the 160 guys we interviewed for a study in 2008 and 2009, nearly one in eight reported same-sex attractions, fantasies, and crushes. The majority had these feelings since high school; a few others developed them more recently. And in a national sample of young men whose average age was 22, the “mostly straight” proportion increased when they completed the same survey six years later.

These men aren’t bisexuals in disguise. They’re not closeted gay men seeking the privileges afforded to heterosexuals in society. They’re not simply tired of sex with women. With the words “mostly straight,” they’re describing a unique sexual identity, their complete romantic self.

♦♦♦

Among the “mostly straights” we surveyed, a few subtypes stood out.

First is the guy whose progressive political leanings lead him to feel constrained by traditional heterosexuality and masculinity, an outdated and unnecessary burden. “I might have been gay if I’d been raised differently,” one said. “Aren’t we all born bisexual and culture pushes us one way or another?” He challenges homophobic customs and assumptions. One such young man sings in a gay chorus; another marches in pride parades as an ally; a third intends to “come out” as mostly straight in the military to test the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. He wants to know, how gay does one have to be to count?

Second is the guy who finds guys physically attractive. One interviewee pleaded, “I mean, come on, tell me some guys aren’t hot!” If he finds himself staring at men in the gym, on the sports field, around the neighborhood, and in Details, Instinct, and Vman, then how can he say to himself that he is totally straight? He notices guys in the buff and who are buff, visually appealing, and pleasurable to be around. He wonders if he only desires the toned body, stylistic appearance, and athletic facility—and not the sexuality.

A third guy may admit that he’s a little sexually attracted to guys. It may not be his top priority, but he’ll acknowledge that men occasionally pop up in his masturbatory fantasies. He doesn’t expect to have sex with a man, but he isn’t ruling it out; he has a willingness to experiment. He’s into sexual pleasure without strings, without meaning. Anything is possible, given the right circumstances with the right person. (Well, almost anything: most interviewees drew the line at actual male-male intercourse.)

A fourth guy is a guy like Dillon: he grants that he’s not totally straight, and that his feelings for guys are more than just sexual—they’re romantic. He can imagine experiencing emotional, intimate relationships with other young men. It just seems natural. He’s into cuddling without the pressure of sex, and he could spend countless hours with “special buddies.” He’s been infatuated with best friends, teammates, and videogame partners.

All four guys have one thing in common: unlike their totally straight brothers, they’re not averse to sexual or romantic feelings, encounters, or relationships with other males.

♦♦♦

It’s unlikely that mostly straight youth are limited to just four types. As additional young men recognize and reveal their sexual breadth, they assist all of us to understand previously unrecognized sexual and romantic possibilities. How many of us have these feelings and are clamoring to “come out” as mostly straight?

Indeed, throughout his life, Dillon has had boy chums, boy crushes, and boy infatuations with teammates and best friends. He makes lingering, intense, frequent references to his core group of high-school buddies and to the male companionship he habitually seeks. He readily hugs and even cuddles with male friends while watching a movie and eating popcorn, especially if they are “on the same wavelength.”

Dillon could see himself meeting a guy and together developing a “partnership.” They wouldn’t act on it sexually, but they’d be physically affectionate. Dillon imagines that their relationship would be difficult for others to understand. They’d think it was a gay relationship because of the time he and his partner spent together, the secrets they shared, and the knowing glances, nods, and code words they exchanged. This is the “homosexual thing” that most interests him.

Far more than we realize, young males wait to be released from their heterosexual straightjackets.

Dillon might just show us the way.

[quote]young males wait to be released from their heterosexual straightjackets.

But the older Professional Gays have a difficult time dealing with fluid sexuality. If a guy sucks a dick now and then, the Professional Gays want him to announce that he's gay and to wave a rainbow flag.

Recently I was at a Sleater-Kinney concert and was very surprised to find uber-straight female colleague in the audience (she didn't see me).

I told the story to my girlfriend, and the reply was quick: so-and-so? the weird, blonde one? First time I met her I thought she was a lesbian. And she's so deep in the closet that she went out of her way to get married, at a pretty young age - to a Brazilian guy.

So that was that.

"Why do we tolerate it?"

What are you suggesting as an alternative?

God, R96, you are so right (see the inspector's speech at the end of Stranger by the Lake).

I am a lesbian and cannot say I have had many lesbian friends. It all turned into backstabbing, useless drama, jealousy, who's sleeping with who...

Now I have my girlfriend and my best friend, who is a lesbian. BUt that's it.

Even my own brother, who is gay, I find more and more cunty.

If someone doesn't want to come out and is not hurting anyone, or being homophobic. Then I don't see the problem. It's their life.

r137 Stop trying to rationalize your homophobia. No one is buying it.

I think we will have a new wave of people staying in the closet because of more right wing forces in society, including the heavy promotion of trans.

R148, young guys aren't fluid at all, except according to misleading surveys with a small sample size. Most young men identify as straight or gay.

There are no closets, only lockers, at my gym.

I would say most are not in the closet, and of course those who are, are homophobic. They are ashamed and/or unable to live openly as a gay man or lesbian. It can be done of course and is infinitely easier and healthier than leading a double life. Only an insidious homophobia can keep someone "in" and if anyone prefer lying to living openly they are willfully self destructive.

Such individuals need our compassion and help- and often professional help. If they are politicians who oppose same sex equal right they should be aggressively outed where ever possible.

Good question.

Part of the 'why' is they're afraid of AIDS, societal exclusion, being rejected by their families, friends, co-workers. They don't want to be 'one of them fags'.

These fears aren't all rational, and they also don't make the people who have those fears bad people.

I care less about who's in the closet than I am hoping to meet people who are out of it.

So I can find a husband, a mate, a partner...whatever the word is.

I would like not to be alone.

You know I'm not sure the predominant stereotype of the gay man is the screaming queen so many attack as the problem. They don't roll out earrings and caftans in anything from porn to HIV advertising. It's predominantly the groomed, fit perfect gay. They're really the face of gay now...

Maybe a lot of closeted people and semi-identifying as sort of possibly from time to time gay aren't rejecting a sexuality but a value system or lifestyle. Or at least the perception of it. Maybe we've got it all wrong. Maybe the rationale for the closet has evolved along with everything else.

"If a guy sucks a dick now and then, the Professional Gays want him to announce that he's gay and to wave a rainbow flag."

ROFLMAO. Actually, most studies show the opposite, that older men were more likely to have had same sex contact than young men. This was in the old days when straight girls wouldn't suck dick. Now that they do, straight guys don't need gay men to do that for them.

R160 Yes, you have a point. My late dad was a man who I am positive was a heterosexual male. He and my mother were as happily married for 63 years as is humanly possible. But late in life he admitted to some male on male "grab ass" as he put it during his youth in the '30s. That was a time when boys from the right side of the tracks were definitely NOT diddling or even playing footsie with the proper young girls in their peer group.

[quote]ironically, blacks are the most homophobic group

we beg to differ.

Most men are closeted. Most men are gay or bi. Always has been, I don't see why it would change in recent years. im only 24 and have seen so many gay things go on between "straight" guys. I could suck a thousand dicks and still not be as gay as the average man. I know I will be flamed on here by certain gays and fraus, but fuck it...butt fuck it:).

#buttfuckit

new hashtag people, lets make it happen!

Yes, let's all join the fool who is R163!

WHEN DO THE TEARS STOP??!?!?!

Most Men avoid association with anything that undermines their masculinity or manliness. Manliness is the biggest privilege in this world, and anything that threatens it is avoided and stigmatized. Gay identity is perceived as the biggest threat to manliness. Therefore, most men steadfastly avoid being associated with it,

If P, then Q.

No one cares anymore if someone is gay; very few people are still in the closet. I came out my sophomore year of high school (1999) and that is normal now. Coming out isn't even a big deal anymore. People just shrug, admit they already knew, and you move on.

Unless you were born 50 years ago it's hard to even understand why people were in the closet. There's no stigma to being gay nowadays and that's a damn good thing. Sometimes my generation (and younger) take all the hard work others have done for granted, but the work has indeed been done and now we are free to be out and live normal lives.

r168 = living in fantasyland

R168, tell that to the guys who got gaybashed in Philly

I was in the closet for years because I saw no beneficial reason for coming out. That was twenty years ago and I still don't really have much respect for the 'lifestyle'.

Although I know many kind and loving guys who I admire, an alarmingly large number are superficial, self-centered, under achieving and too much caught up in 'the drama'.

By the way, I was forced out of the closet when a former 'friend' became jealous of my new relationship with a wonderful man.

'DRAMA!!!'

Our gorgeous king, Felipe VI,is an obvious and well-known homosexual(among Spanish insiders) yet in the closet.

The gaybashing in Philly was an unfortunate, but thankfully isolated incident.

It's not like we're living in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. People are open and accepting in America, especially here in New York.

Never once have I or one of my friends experienced discrimination or negativity about being gay. If anything it's just the opposite- being gay is an advantage. Being open is more likely to make you part of the elite rather than a pariah. That's just a plain and simple fact.

And who wants to be part of "the elite", exactly?

It's so true! Even in ultra-liberal NYC I know sooo many men in the closet!!!!! It does become obvious after a while when they're over 30, no wife/girlfriend, kids, always hanging around other men, etc. Yet they still won't come out and put on this macho act that they're straight!

[quote]Never once have I or one of my friends experienced discrimination or negativity about being gay.

That you know of. But when decisions are made about promotions, about bonuses, etc. you can't be sure. Depending on how much you make, it's a risk to consider. Frankly, I'd choose money every time. I am not closeted in the cliche sense, but fully admit it's practical for me to be selective. Sorry, but the gay community is unlikely to take care of me in retirement. They don't want much to do with me now and I'm forty and in good shape.

R173

Take it then you are part of the *usual face* of the gay community here in NYC; white, middle to above class and from liberal/Democratic background or perhaps moderately conservative. Otherwise you would realize that was a foolish statement to make.

Also live in NYC and can tell you past and present there is discrimination against gays. It may not always be open and or blatant, but never the less it has and continues to happen.

Speak with some of the African-American, Latino-Hispanic, members of other minorities here and they will have a few things to tell you. No small number will say being an out gay male just hands someone yet another club to beat them upside the head with. Talk to some of the white gays pushing their way into once traditionally minority areas such as Harlem, Bedford-Stuyvesant, or Bushwick and yet again you'll hear a different story.

This whole conversation is silly. Being gay is about who one chooses to love and or have relations with; that can be a small to large part of one's life. Am sorry if it bothers some of you but there are gay men who have done the sums and decided any potential loss of status, income, and family isn't worth "coming out".

Another thing;

Until the gay *community* such as it is, deals with issues in its own backyard such as all manner and sorts of discrimination then as the saying goes; Cada macaco no seu galho.

YOU are the gay community IDUnno. Those issues exist because YOU are a fucking bigot.

You don't even know who I am so stuff your "bigot" nonsense.

More bi's are closeted than gays

A buddy of mine is moving in with his girlfriend.

He's not talking a lot about it around me because he knows I had (have?) a crush on him.

Of course, another reason is it's going to be his third long term relationship and the other two failed and he just can't admit to himself that he likes guys.

That's my movie ending, which won't happen, sadly.

Right back at you IDunno. You don't know a fucking thing about "the community." You're just a lying troll.

Just ignore the idunno poster on the beta site. Don't argue with trolls, just ignore them. Click ignore, gone forever.

Pay no attention to these losers, IDunno. You are the Earth Mother and they are all FLOPS!

I think that is a silly question with an evident answer.

It is because of social/cultural stigmatization of homosexuality, generally promoted by religion.

Most of the world still lives under patriarchal premises. Patriarchy is guilty of stigmatizing homosexuality and religion is guilty of promoting the stigmatization of homosexuality.

Im stil in the closet, cause I tripped and fell over my 1948 Hoover upright vac,and i cant get up, (help) and my life alert button is on my nightstand (next to my teeth) life is cruel

Because the world strongly disapproves of homosexuality, especially male homosexuality. Easy answer

r176 is the closest to reality.

They never tire of folding and putting away their laundry?

It's not my place to tolerate or not tolerate closet cases. If it's not my life, it's not my business. There are bigger things to get excited about.

Not really true R191. It is self-loathing to think that one's sexuality is not important. It is self-defeating to think that whether or not gay people are "out" as an effect on how all of us are treated.

"Never once have I or one of my friends experienced discrimination or negativity about being gay. If anything it's just the opposite- being gay is an advantage. Being open is more likely to make you part of the elite rather than a pariah. That's just a plain and simple fact."

What a patently ridiculous and false statement. Seriously. You're either lying or live in a very small world.

Let's be a little more honest with our question and concern, shall we? Why are most ATTRACTIVE gay men still in the closet?

99 out of every 100 gay guys are just sexually attracted to other guys. They want nothing to do with the priss act. It's repulsive and they don't want to be associated with it. But as we all know, that's been the media's agenda for the last 2 decades.

While my best friends know I'm gay, I'm not really out at work or involved in gay causes.

I suppose I've justified it by coming to believe that there's no such thing as "the gay community." I can't relate to most gay men I meet and as a matter of fact, I don't have a single gay friend.

It's not the life I want, trust me. I'm probably subconsciously still ashamed of being gay even though I officially accepted my sexuality more than 10 years ago (I'm now 34).

My ex-boyfriend, the love of my life so far, came to doubt I was even gay because I couldn't bring myself to initiate any kind of intimacy with him. He thought I identified as gay because I hate my mother (which I do have issues with my mother), but I'm genuinely drawn to men more than women. Another friend accused me of being homophobic...and that prompted me to at least try to be more "gay." I watched the entire run of "Looking" and now I'm watching "The Normal Heart." I'm also considering volunteering with HRC or another gay organization...

r37"There are many wives who are realistic about their husband's affairs, as long as they're kept quiet ie on a business trip."

how is this still acceptable in 2015?

r74"I want to maintain a certain level of masculinity, so no, I won't come out of the closet."

r198, you need to see r195.

Some homosexual men seem to live in a bubble and don't realise that there are still lots of families that strongly oppose homosexuality willing to disown and expulse their children for it. Do you remember that kid whose family went very aggressive against his kid who told them he was homosexual? Remember how they mistreated him in the name of the Lord? He got the whole thing on video. People who boast about their godly love for Jesus but they don't hesitate to mistreat their own homosexual children.

Parental love in not always unconditional.

There are still some employers who will find any possible way to fire an employee they find out to be homosexual.

There are still "friends" who usually speak against and make offensive jokes about homosexuality and they are willing to ostracise the gay one if they find out.

R200, you speak out of your hat

R201 Yeah, right...

It is not true that all those thing still happen today...

It is true R202.

If it weren't those legislators in Indiana wouldn't have so keen on their new law.

blow hards

Missy is behind all of it somehow.

Probably because of laws,like the ridiculous one just passed in Indiana, If they weren't such cowards, there would be strength in numbers. Bi's need to come out also !!

That's like asking why is Hillary fat.

R207, your idol Chris Christie is the fat one

why are most heteros so stupid?

Is the closet filled with mink and ermine coats? Sometimes the closet is filled with comfee coats.

I'm closeted bi and so is one of my good friends. We're both 28. We have amazing sex together but I can't really imagine anyone we know accepting us in a relationship. So not much can really come out of it. My job is pretty gay friendly and my boss is gay, but his work is like the opposite.

R211, what do you do for work?

#212 university public relations in Chicago

I don't care - hope they stay there! Sure makes my job a hell of a lot easier.

Because most gays are ashamed

probably of SHAME

Fuck you in the ass, OP!

We know you'd like it, too!

I don't understand what you are talking about

If every gay and lesbian star was outed in Hollywood, it'd put Hollywood out of biz and Hollywood execs know that. It's pure greed. Wish the Sony hacks revealed who was gay!

I do not associate with closely cases. In the past, they've brought nothing but toxic drama to my life. If you're closeted, even just a little, I respectfully disappear from your life.

r220, many OUT gays are also like that

Why does it seem that most 'out and proud' homosexuals are on drugs?

More heteros should be in the closest - have the decency to have some shame

Not from my experience R221. The out gay men are easier to be around, there at ease with themselves, they're not homophobic...just a better class.

The out gay men I know...

I doubt that most gay men in the United States are in the closet and so what if they are? Tolerance works both ways.

Surveys show they are closeted R226.

And your daddy is one of them.

Because it's nice and warm in here. Are you closet-phobic?

It's hot outside, why would you need to hide in a stuffy warm closet. ?

The heat outside can never warm your cold soul so why waste your time with pointless activities?

r230 nails it

Because they love pussy too much.

After so much recent misery on the Hershey Highway, we are now contemplating a conversia to Lesbianism - as millions of sisters have been doing since the beginning of time!

'

It's a question of being happy inside or being happy outside, private/public, and also whether you can/want to sustain a long-term relationship. There's a whole bunch of factors that come into play when choosing to be in or out of the closet. And it's usually not entirely clear-cut, many people are out to some circles and not to others. Few people are out to EVERYONE, unless they're known to everyone like Ellen DeGeneres. Unless you come up with "hi, I'm gay" to every single person you meet, chances are you are "in the closet" to every single new acquaintance until proven otherwise.

That's not true at all, R235. Are you telling me that you can walk down 9th Ave and not realize how many of the guys on the sidewalk in the restaurants are gay?

All of my friends are completely out to everyone and I don't even know anyone who is partially closeted.

I actually think it would be harder to live in Hell's Kitchen and be closeted than completely out. It's 2015 and gays in the US are out.

Not everyone lives in the US. Not everyone lives in NYC. I was talking about the world at large. There are gay people in South America, in Europe South North East and West, in Asia... There might even be gay people in Africa, when they don't get killed. I was talking about all of those different people. Not the small crowd that lives or struts down 9th Ave.

First of all stop calling them gay.

Most men who have sex with men worldwide are not gay, do not identify as gay and many want nothing to do with that label.

Q: why don't you make it your mission in life to eXpose them all ?

I remain in the closet because I CHOOSE to. It's MY CHOICE, not YOURS.

Does being 'gender queer' as opposed to 'gay' have to do with being closeted? I don't understand what that means.

Many Republicans are mores so than Democrats and GOP Politicians!

r240, being a serial killer is a choice, too

r240 is right

So sad!! If more were out, we would be taken seriously and defy stereotypes . BUT the femme lesbians and the masculine gay guys refuse

...because it's none of our business.

Because most gender non-conforming gay/bisexual people don't even see themselves as "gay."

I meant gender comforming, people who are undetectable, umc lockable, who don't have any observable stereotypical gay traits.

Unclockable

The main reason: insitutionalized homophobia which can negatively affect people in amy ways: being ostracised, bullying, physical aggression, losing your job, etc.

One other reason is many will refrain from "coming out of the closet" for fear of being associated with the flamboyant kaind of gay man whos is perceived as being ridiculing all gay men.

r250, ditto for feminine lesbians :(

Men don't want to be associated with anything associated with unmanliness

R252, It's way worse for men to be stereotypical

There are reasons to remain closeted. In some areas of the U.S--and the world--openly being gay could get you killed, or at the very least, gay bashed.

I grew up in western rural Ohio--Bible totin', gun lovin' bigots and racists. If I would have come out in my teens, there is a very good chance I could have been harmed and possibly the old " Oh, he just done run off to the big city. Nope, haven't heard from him..." which is code talk for "We tortured and killed him for being a fucking homo then buried what was left of him in a cornfield". And yes---it happens and no one does shit about it.

I got my ass out of there as soon as I could and haven't looked back. And I feel for anyone who has to remain closeted.

However---like some of you have said---ANY politician, celebrity, etc---who tries to harm us or deny us our rights while secretly cruising for cock at airports or truck stops DESERVE to be outed!

Closet cases want their cake and eat it too

Because they love pussy. They only come out as 'Gay' when they're bored pussy(usually after 40-50 years eat pussy).

Some questions about what OP's "out" is.

Don't you think it's pretty obvious? FLAMES!

Because Being called "gay" is still one of the worst insults in our society. It is viewed as undermining one's manhood or womanhood, especially manhood

I believe some men have been threatened with death by their beards if they ever come out.

That's right, being associated with unmanliness is very prevalent as a reason not to come out of the closet.

Also, I believe it's the radical image of gays in the media. Gay pride parades are a disgrace

"Gay pride parades are a disgrace"

Please, that's like attacking straights based on Mardi Gras parades. Parades aren't "radical" except to Republicans

r252 and r260 are correct. Many men (especially "alpha males" who work in very macho professions) do not want to see themselves as being unmanly. It's why 99% of gay athletes are in the closet.

A bit off topic: I was waiting for my subway to arrive in NYC yesterday and it was during rush hour in the evening so the platform was crowded. There were 2 good looking, late-teen boys standing next to each other near me complaining about the heat and just being teenagers, swiping each other jokingly and just being young. Next thing I know they casually lean into each other and start making out. Like tongue and all, arms wrapped around each other on the F platform and stopping every so often to whisper stuff to each other. Just Exactly like I have often seen straight teenage couples do while waiting for the subway around the city in the summer. It was SO BOLD but also the most natural thing in the world. They were beyond out. Like they transcended the notion of being out.

Because gays are despised?

I can't imagine the majority of gay people are closeted these days, but it's a great troll post. I started coming out to family members in 1976, that's 39 years ago folks, and did so unconditionally to everyone including work and business associates by 1980. Coming out dramatically improved my mental health and love life, but it did become a career impediment. Would you choose being a healthy and authentic person, or something less important in the grand scheme of things: money? Most people simply don't face that kind of choice in 2015.

I don't think most are. But I think that many men ages say 35 to 60 are because they came of age at a time when Gay=AIDS=Death and if you were masculine enough to pass, then why risk it? Things are very different for younger gays but I remember people who were not otherwise prejudiced not drinking from glasses that had touched gay lips because they were afraid of catching AIDS

R263, that is HOT. But were they obviously gay from the get-go? Or were they masculine (and closeted to you) up until the tongue stuff started?

r267, I bet u anything u could see their flames from space

Do this: try and picture OP .. speaking, gesturing, moving about, laughing, interacting, etc., etc., and you'll understand why he has no earthly idea why everyone is not out.

r269, so come out to defy the stereotypes! Most gay men are masculine. Be a MAN and come out

I like how some people forget about those that live in those flyover states, in small towns where everything is not as "progressive" or "liberal" as NY. Not everyone has the luxury of the big cities where you can be yourself and no one bats an eye. Even if it is 2015. We've still got a long way to go.

I have a closet case cousin who married another closet case and they have one child. Very conservative, country club types, but after dating a hot guy and getting invited to a party at their house, I realized they are probably swingers and closeted to most family, but not each other.

They are both big drinkers/partiers and I wondered if that was part of the "I only did that while I was drunk" act.

They don't care for my current bf, so I'm out of the loop. I'd love to out them at Christmas, but my 50 year-old gay uncle will, for the 20th straight yea, and my family will blame his words on alcohol.

Out them all

Great story at R263.

Most guys that stay closeted in 2015. Why? Only closeted guy I know is because of issues with his religion. Lots of admitted self-loathing, emotional stuff. He's 24, a virgin, and won't touch a man. It's sad because he's a good-looking guy. It still happens today.

Most closeted gays are afraid of being ostracized in society or by friends/family. The way I see it if you come out as gay and your "friends" all of a sudden don't want to be friends anymore, they were NEVER your friends to begin with. Family has issues with you being gay and want to disown you for it, they NEVER really loved you as much as they claimed.

It's as simple as that. Find new actual friends and make them your family, true family doesn't abandon their own just because of sexuality.

If you live in areas dangerous to out gay people, I recommend staying closeted until you find yourself in a safer and more tolerant environment.

I came out to a friend at work today and he told me he was gay too!!

[quote]It's sad because he's a good-looking guy. It still happens today.

His closeted state may be sad for a number of reasons, but the fact that he's a good looking guy isn't one of them, you shallow fucking tool.

It's bad for business.

Not if you're a hair dresser or interior decororator or similar, but otherwise.

Only the pretty ones matter r278 obvi

None of your fucking business. Let them live their lives their way.

Why is this silly thread still alive- most gays are not in the closet- so close the door on this stupid question.

I feel sorry for them but I feel more sorry for their wives. I feel really sorry for their wives.

If they all came out, then they would be accepted because it would be so normal...everyone could accept them.

Yes, everyone is so accepting and it's so easy for everyone. That's why we have so many out professional athletes, and a-list actors. C'mon people, let's be real. Maybe most aren't in the closet, but many are.

They are hiding from Caitlyn Jenner, OP.

Sorry, cunts, in Iran you could be executed. In the US there is NO reason why you shouldn't be out, except for being a dumb cunt.

r287, is one of those myopic, controlling, delusional people that think that everyone has to be like and think like them. They get upset that other people have different values, interests, considerations, and relationships than they do. Notice they use the "c-word" a lot which reflects their vicious, bitter, lack of respect for others.

R288 = SJW libtard cunt.

[quote]Why is this silly thread still alive- most gays are not in the closet- so close the door on this stupid question.

Uh, I don't know about that. I think it's probably about half are out and half are not (or only out to a few people). I know plenty of people who are still in the closet (and these are guys in their 20's/early 30's who come from a more accepting generation). Why they're in the closet, I don't know.

gay men and women who look and act straight tend to be in closet. they can't relate to the flamers or butches

Because there's a blatant double standard:

Gay men fetishize men who also sleep with/are attracted to women. Straight women are repulsed by men who also sleep with/are attracted to other men.

I refuse to use the word lesbian cuz it has so many negative connotations . I prefer same sex attracted

Are you actually a guy pretending to be a woman, R293? Just wondering...be honest.

Uh no r293. why would u think that?

OP, to answer the question, read the attached DL thread.

You have to be in the most insular, tiny-world, big Northeast city gay ghetto not to realize that most bisexual and gay men are closeted. For starters, almost all bisexual men are closeted. Among gay men, huge numbers remain closeted. Polls show that only about 2 to 4 percent of men acknowledge they are gay or bisexual, yet about 10 percent or more acknowledge same-sex attractions or activity. It is clear that a huge percentage of same-sex oriented men identify as straight, or definitely non-gay. The fact that there are currently no openly gay playing professional football, hockey, basketball, or baseball players tells you that the closet is very vast, especially among masculine and mainstream gay/bi dudes.

"That's why we have so many out professional athletes, and a-list actors."

There are no gay professional athletes. They are all straight like me!

Out sissies comprise less than 1% of all sissies worldwide.

Ironically more and more gays are back in closet

[quote]gay men and women who look and act straight tend to be in closet. they can't relate to the flamers or butches

Yep.

[quote]Ironically more and more gays are back in closet

It's strange, isn't it?

Come out for Xmas

Don't forget all those men who aren't gay, but just happen to like having sex with other men. Lord, almighty!

Be what you feel.

R304 -- are you being sarcastic?

There's a guy I (barely) know who I know for a fact has a girlfriend, yet my gaydar always went off with him. So I wasn't exactly surprised when one day he asked me if I wanted to "meet up" with him (even though I barely know him). I declined because I don't mess with closet cases.

There's a lot more gays in the closet than people realize.

Any number under 40 - regardless of 'persuasia' - who is the least bit attractive will eventually be captured by a stinkfish.

Every Haitian male immigrant I've ever met talks like Tinkerbelle on helium and floats along in life, flirting with anything male, but they all have a wife and 8 rugrats at home. I just don't get it.

The answer to your questia, 309, is right there in 308!

Gays should be forced

[quote] R304: Don't forget all those men who aren't gay, but just happen to like having sex with other men.

[quote] R305: are you being sarcastic?

I'm not sure that "sarcastic" is the right word. It is just that I've learned that some men cannot face their homosexual tendencies and will swear that they are not gay, but that they just have sex with other men. Remember in Brokeback Mountain when the two male leads at one point declare that they are not fags? I don't subscribe to the idea of it, but it is out there.

The T will take over gays unless we come out. I am all for outing, especially celebrities and media people.

Why such intolerance for closeted lifestyles?

Are most men gay or bisexual?