Okay, We Need to Talk About Kevin

Born that way. He is a twisted fucker.

I'm not sure I got it in the end.

So far seems to be a little fucker. I've heard that kids who can't be toilet trained early can be possible sociopaths. Anyone?

The mother narrates the story. She is presenting the whole thing from her point of view. But even in her own narrative, it's clear that she was at best ambivalent about becoming a mother. She's detached from her child from infancy and has no idea how to connect with him or comfort him.

She resents the child for her loss of freedom and her exile from the city to the suburbs. Her guilt about her detachment and resentment lead her to through the motions of being a dutiful mother to Kevin. But even the infant Kevin is sharp enough to sense that she's faking it, and that she actually has overwhelming negative feelings toward him. You can hear it in her voice and see it in her body language.

The kid was unwanted and resented by the woman who was supposed to love him unconditionally. It warped him, and he would do anything to pay her back and make her suffer.

Are we talking about Kevin or our own Brandon?

I like what R4 wrote, but I also think that Kevin was showing sociopathic behavior from when he was a small kid, or at the very least, he was extremely manipulative and lacking any sense of guilt or remorse.

It's been a while since I saw the film, but doesn't Kevin hurt his little sister?

I think the film is an example of a great novel to film adaptation.

Lynne Ramsay is one of the few visual directors working today. I can't believe she has such a hard time getting her films funded.

[quote]Lynne Ramsay is one of the few visual directors working today. I can't believe she has such a hard time getting her films funded.

Talented or not, and I agree she is, she seems to be unwilling to compromise or sell out. Admirable qualities, but they resign her to getting independent financing where she can.

I agree, R7. For some reason I thought that it is easier to get film financing in the UK, with the UK Film Council and other similar sources.

Andrea Arnold is making her first US financed film. We'll see how that goes.

A child has TWO parents. Why in 2014 is the mother still considered the sole influence on a child and solely to blame for its behaviour?

What the book highlighted is the paramount need for authentic thought, soul-searching and consideration by everyone involved in producing a child. Social engineering and pressure are NOT sufficient reasons to enter into the business of children.

[quote]A child has TWO parents. Why in 2014 is the mother still considered the sole influence on a child and solely to blame for its behaviour?

The movie was from 2011.

Whether it's 2011 or 2014, it makes little difference... it's the same time in our society we're talking about.

I liked this. Cute movie.

The thing I didn't get about it was why were neighbours giving the mother such a hard time? It's not as if she didn't lose anyone as well.

R13 I also found that a bit strange. *Spoiler Alert* He killed her husband and daughter as well as those other kids. I wouldn't expect the community to be so hostile to someone in that situation.

Kevin was clearly born a sociopath. She didn't help by being detached but I didn't see any scenes where she was abusing him as an infant or child. So, to me, the blame lies more with him that her poor parenting skills. If that's all it takes to produce a sociopath and murderer, there would be millions of children like Kevin running around killing people.

The story did make me think a little bit about the JonBenet Ramsey story. Is Burke a Kevin?

r13 - I guess because they felt she raised a monster.

r4 - No, she doesn't bond with him, but she did bond with her daughter, so it's not that she completely resents motherhood. And Kevin kills his father who treated him lovingly. So I don't believe it's meant to be completely a matter of nurture that he ended up a sociopath; and how many children of mildly uninvested women end up spree killers? Sure she contributed to his development, but there's nothing she did that would lead to sociopathy if he didn't have an inherent tendency to it.

[quote]She didn't help by being detached but I didn't see any scenes where she was abusing him as an infant or child.

R14 she broke his arm when he deliberately soiled his diaper again after she'd just changed him. She grabbed him and threw him across the room. He was around six at the time.

Tilda is excellent in this.

I love how if OP isn't told what to think he can't engage with the film on its own terms. Poor thing.

R16, oops, forgot about that. The way it was portrayed in the movie, it was like he was doing it just to spite her. But then the movie is told from her perspective, so...

I still think he was a born sociopath. She managed to bond with the daughter so she wasn't totally disconnected from being a mother.

If only I could walk into a room and catch Ezra Miller masturbating!

[quote]And Kevin kills his father who treated him lovingly.

Read Shriver's book, haven't seen the film. In the book, Kevin's father doesn't treat him lovingly, so much as panders to his son's manipulative personality. Kevin thought his father a complete pussy, killed him out of loathing and contempt.

R21 that's how it is in the film, too.

She should've secretly taped or recorded some of their mother/son exchanges to show the father what a psycho he was behind his back. Well, that's what I would do if my partner didn't believe me.

Is this the one where the kid goes on a school shooting at the end with a bow and arrow

yes R24, do keep up.

I was just trying to spoil the ending for the OP who decides to ask questions on a forum instead of watching the movie

The book is interesting because the author understands that psychopathy (the modern term for 'sociopathy' which is not used any more by clinical researchers or in diagnostics) develops due to multiple factors, none of which in itself might result in a psychopathic personality, but combined, they do. The factors are biological, neurocognitive and environmental.

What 'Kevin' does is illustrate show how this fictional child is both biologically predisposed to psychopathic behaviors and it shows how his development is negatively affected by exposure to hostility and violence from the mother.

If empathy is not received by the primary caregiver , a child will have no template for empathy unless it has an empathic other person to learn empathy from - psychopaths have very little of no empathic connection with other people. In 'Kevin' the low-empathy, hostile mother and the son are trapped together at home alone during his infancy, from what I recall.

r27 - Interesting. I haven't read the book. So his father isn't enough of an empathetic other person? And does the mother show empathy with her daughter in the book, or is that not mentioned?

R28, it's about 6 years since I read the book and I haven't seen the film, so my recall of the father and the relationship with the daughter is not good - but I believe the father is largely absence at work during Kevin's infancy in the book, as is the norm when a kid is mainly cared for by a mother.

My recollection is that, in the book, the daughter seems to appeal to the mother mainly as she makes few demands on the mother and is easy to control.

To think that Tilda wasn't even nominated that year while Rooney Mara and Michelle Williams were. Oh, and there was that Thatcher inspired Grand Guignol performance as well...

FYI, R30, Williams (MY WEEK WITH MARILYN) won the most critics awards that year, followed by Swinton (WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT KEVIN). Streep (THE IRON LADY)got a few, and Davis (THE HELP) only won those NAACP/black critics awards. Close (ALBERT KNOBBS) and Mara (THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO) didn't win a single one. Elizabeth Olsen (MARTHA MARCY MAY MARLENE) also won her share of critics awards, but she also missed out on Oscar.

Frankly the pairing of Tilda and John C. Reilly seemed very odd. I also waver between thinking she's really ugly to lovely.

Is this another Aaron Rodgers thread?

She left him Home Alone. That would make any kid go nuts with abandonment issues.

[quote]To think that Tilda wasn't even nominated that year while Rooney Mara and Michelle Williams were.

Such an injustice. Tilda and Ezra were fantastic in this movie.

[quote]Oh, and there was that Thatcher inspired Grand Guignol performance as well...

LOL, I'm stealing this.

Tilda was amazing in the film. She practically played two characters; the successful woman from before the killings, and the woman who is shunned by her environment. And she transitions seamlessly from one to another.

Kevin was seemingly normal but after his mother left him Home Alone, you can see how psycho Kevin went on those burglars.

I think he was born fairly bad but the icy upbringing by his mother made him worse the one thing I found unrealistic was the extreme reactions from the townspeople .and that scene with the Co worker was way way over the top

Though it's important to remember that Eva is not a reliable narrator

I fucking love R34 and R37.

The reaction by the townspeople bothered me as well but I heard from someone who read the book that the Swinton’s character pays for his defense in court and that’s why the townspeople all hate her. There are allusions to it in the movie like when she’s walking down the court steps with the press but I think the rest was cut for time.

Thank you 41, that helps explain a little bit. I thought the scene with the male Co worker at the party was extremely unrealistic . There had been nothing in the movie up to that point that would hint he would go off on her like that . Was that explained at all in the book?

Not that I know of 42... but I didn’t ask because I actually found that believable. Some people turn into real assholes and try to inflict pain when they’re rejected.

I really should actually read the book myself, I loved the movie.