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Camille Paglia: Young women today do not understand the fragility of civilization and the constant nearness of savage nature

She is so fierce. The world's craziest lesbian weighs in on campus rape.

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by Anonymousreply 196February 13, 2020 3:00 AM

The disappearance of University of Virginia sophomore Hannah Graham two weeks ago is the latest in a long series of girls-gone-missing cases that often end tragically. A 32-year-old, 270-pound former football player who fled to Texas has been returned to Virginia and charged with “abduction with intent to defile.” At this date, Hannah’s fate and whereabouts remain unknown.

Wildly overblown claims about an epidemic of sexual assaults on American campuses are obscuring the true danger to young women, too often distracted by cellphones or iPods in public places: the ancient sex crime of abduction and murder. Despite hysterical propaganda about our “rape culture,” the majority of campus incidents being carelessly described as sexual assault are not felonious rape (involving force or drugs) but oafish hookup melodramas, arising from mixed signals and imprudence on both sides.

Colleges should stick to academics and stop their infantilizing supervision of students’ dating lives, an authoritarian intrusion that borders on violation of civil liberties. Real crimes should be reported to the police, not to haphazard and ill-trained campus grievance committees.

Too many young middleclass women, raised far from the urban streets, seem to expect adult life to be an extension of their comfortable, overprotected homes. But the world remains a wilderness. The price of women’s modern freedoms is personal responsibility for vigilance and self-defense.

Current educational codes, tracking liberal-Left, are perpetuating illusions about sex and gender. The basic Leftist premise, descending from Marxism, is that all problems in human life stem from an unjust society and that corrections and fine-tunings of that social mechanism will eventually bring utopia. Progressives have unquestioned faith in the perfectibility of mankind.

The horrors and atrocities of history have been edited out of primary and secondary education except where they can be blamed on racism, sexism, and imperialism — toxins embedded in oppressive outside structures that must be smashed and remade. But the real problem resides in human nature, which religion as well as great art sees as eternally torn by a war between the forces of darkness and light.

Liberalism lacks a profound sense of evil — but so does conservatism these days, when evil is facilely projected onto a foreign host of rising political forces united only in their rejection of Western values. Nothing is more simplistic than the now rote use by politicians and pundits of the cartoonish label “bad guys” for jihadists, as if American foreign policy is a slapdash script for a cowboy movie.

The gender ideology dominating academe denies that sex differences are rooted in biology and sees them instead as malleable fictions that can be revised at will. The assumption is that complaints and protests, enforced by sympathetic campus bureaucrats and government regulators, can and will fundamentally alter all men.

But extreme sex crimes like rape-murder emanate from a primitive level that even practical psychology no longer has a language for. Psychopathology, as in Richard von Krafft-Ebing’s grisly Psychopathia Sexualis (1886), was a central field in early psychoanalysis. But today’s therapy has morphed into happy talk, attitude adjustments, and pharmaceutical shortcuts.

There is a ritualistic symbolism at work in sex crime that most women do not grasp and therefore cannot arm themselves against. It is well-established that the visual faculties play a bigger role in male sexuality, which accounts for the greater male interest in pornography. The sexual stalker, who is often an alienated loser consumed with his own failures, is motivated by an atavistic hunting reflex. He is called a predator precisely because he turns his victims into prey.

Sex crime springs from fantasy, hallucination, delusion, and obsession. A random young woman becomes the scapegoat for a regressive rage against female sexual power: “You made me do this.” Academic clichés about the “commodification” of women under capitalism make little sense here: It is women’s superior biological status as magical life-creator that is profaned and annihilated by the barbarism of sex crime.

Misled by the naive optimism and “You go, girl!” boosterism of their upbringing, young women do not see the animal eyes glowing at them in the dark. They assume that bared flesh and sexy clothes are just a fashion statement containing no messages that might be misread and twisted by a psychotic. They do not understand the fragility of civilization and the constant nearness of savage nature.

by Anonymousreply 1September 30, 2014 1:04 AM

This is the same woman who sided with the pedophile priests and said she was sick of them being locked up. She's an idiot. She is also a NAMBLA supporter.

by Anonymousreply 2September 30, 2014 1:10 AM

Sounds like the same old tired windbag Paglia to me. Even she can't remember the last time she was actually relevant.

by Anonymousreply 3September 30, 2014 1:10 AM

Crazy, but right, crazy, but right. Unpleasant.

by Anonymousreply 4September 30, 2014 1:11 AM

So that right-wing old crone is still alive and nattering on.

Her vocabulary and frame of reference are so 1980s.

by Anonymousreply 5September 30, 2014 1:11 AM

She's not right. No child is brought up in a Marxist liberal cocoon where she believers capitalism is responsible for all violence in the world. What a ridiculous straw labia. Camille Paglia is paid to betray us. That is her market. In her own way, she's as big a bitch as Phyllis Schlafly. And an even bigger liar.

by Anonymousreply 6September 30, 2014 1:13 AM

Madonna is the ultimate feminist. I love you, NAMBLA!

by Anonymousreply 7September 30, 2014 1:13 AM

ALL HETERO SEX IS RAPE!!!

by Anonymousreply 8September 30, 2014 1:15 AM

There is a new theory raised in every third sentence. Some of her ideas are provocative, but she does nothing at all to develop them.

I missed the her usual references to Elizabeth Taylor and Raquel Welch. And (of course) Madonna.

by Anonymousreply 9September 30, 2014 1:19 AM

R9, apparently, she now thinks Rihanna is the paragon of sexual status. She considers her exploration of sex amazing compared to Katy Perry and Gaga. Maybe she is Chris Brown?

by Anonymousreply 10September 30, 2014 1:22 AM

What no Miley Cyrus?

That achey breakys my heart.

by Anonymousreply 11September 30, 2014 1:26 AM

She's right. Especially about this:

[quote] Despite hysterical propaganda about our “rape culture,” the majority of campus incidents being carelessly described as sexual assault are not felonious rape (involving force or drugs) but oafish hookup melodramas, arising from mixed signals and imprudence on both sides.

by Anonymousreply 12September 30, 2014 1:32 AM

Oh, I see. To Camille, it's not "RAPE rape", it's just "Oops rape"!

What a blithering cunt.

Why in 2014 do we still give a fuck what Paglia says?

Oh, it's Time Magazine!

That explains it!

by Anonymousreply 13September 30, 2014 1:32 AM

Not all "sexual assault" is "felonious rape."

That's just another variant of blame the victim.

by Anonymousreply 14September 30, 2014 1:35 AM

r13 Time was last relevant about the last time Paglia was.

by Anonymousreply 15September 30, 2014 1:35 AM

[quote]Despite hysterical propaganda about our “rape culture,” the majority of campus incidents being carelessly described as sexual assault are not felonious rape (involving force or drugs) but oafish hookup melodramas, arising from mixed signals and imprudence on both sides.

Except when they aren't. And then they're vicious, violent criminal acts.

by Anonymousreply 16September 30, 2014 1:37 AM

she is awful

by Anonymousreply 17September 30, 2014 2:00 AM

[bold]I'm just going to leave this here...[/bold]

[quote]...both Todd and Sarah Palin, whom most people in the U.S. and abroad had never even heard of until six weeks ago, have emerged as powerful new symbols of a revived contemporary feminism. That the macho Todd, with his champion athleticism and working-class cred, can so amiably cradle babies and care for children is a huge step forward in American sexual symbolism.

.....

[quote]The mountain of rubbish poured out about Palin over the past month would rival Everest. What a disgrace for our jabbering army of liberal journalists and commentators, too many of whom behaved like snippy jackasses. The bourgeois conventionalism and rank snobbery of these alleged humanitarians stank up the place. As for Palin’s brutally edited interviews with Charlie Gibson and that viper, Katie Couric, don’t we all know that the best bits ended up on the cutting-room floor? Something has gone seriously wrong with Democratic ideology, which seems to have become a candied set of holier-than-thou bromides attached like tutti-frutti to a quivering green Jell-O mold of adolescent sentimentality.

[quote]And where is all that lurid sexual fantasy coming from? When I watch Sarah Palin, I don’t think sex — I think Amazon warrior! I admire her competitive spirit and her exuberant vitality, which borders on the supernormal. The question that keeps popping up for me is whether Palin, who was born in Idaho, could possibly be part Native American (as we know her husband is), which sometimes seems suggested by her strong facial contours. I have felt that same extraordinary energy and hyper-alertness billowing out from other women with Native American ancestry — including two overpowering celebrity icons with whom I have worked.

[quote]One of the most idiotic allegations batting around out there among urban media insiders is that Palin is “dumb.” Are they kidding? What level of stupidity is now par for the course in those musty circles? (The value of Ivy League degrees, like sub-prime mortgages, has certainly been plummeting. As a Yale Ph.D., I have a perfect right to my scorn.) People who can’t see how smart Palin is are trapped in their own narrow parochialism — the tedious, hackneyed forms of their upper-middle-class syntax and vocabulary.

[quote]As someone whose first seven years were spent among Italian-American immigrants (I never met an elderly person who spoke English until we moved from Endicott to rural Oxford, New York, when I was in first grade), I am very used to understanding meaning through what might seem to others to be outlandish or fractured variations on standard English. Furthermore, I have spent virtually my entire teaching career (nearly four decades) in arts colleges, where the expressiveness of highly talented students in dance, music and the visual arts takes a hundred different forms. Finally, as a lover of poetry (my last book was about that), I savor every kind of experimentation with standard English — beginning with Shakespeare, who was the greatest improviser of them all at a time when there were no grammar rules.

[quote]Many others listening to Sarah Palin at her debate went into conniptions about what they assailed as her incoherence or incompetence. But I was never in doubt about what she intended at any given moment. On the contrary, I was admiring not only her always shapely and syncopated syllables but the innate structures of her discourse — which did seem to fly by in fragments at times but are plainly ready to be

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by Anonymousreply 18September 30, 2014 4:04 AM

Young women today don't understand much.

by Anonymousreply 19September 30, 2014 4:13 AM

But they do understand more than Camille Paglia does.

by Anonymousreply 20September 30, 2014 4:14 AM

My nephew's hamster understands more than Camille Paglia does.

by Anonymousreply 21September 30, 2014 4:36 AM

She will take a lot of heat for its expository, but let's be honest, "oafish hookup melodrama" is an incredibly apt description of what's going on in colleges.

by Anonymousreply 22September 30, 2014 4:42 AM

Yes, oafish hookup melodrama goes on quite a lot at colleges these days (and in the old days too). Rape is something completely different. Equating the two is moronic and distasteful to sensible, intelligent people.

by Anonymousreply 23September 30, 2014 4:48 AM

My god , I always hated Paglia , but I had no idea she actually venerated Sarah Palin.

Thanks, R18, that is really a very informative link as to how sick she really is.

by Anonymousreply 24September 30, 2014 5:16 AM

I don't understand young women. It's dangerous out there. I would carry a sidearm, mace and a scary knife and never leave the house at night with out a hefty man.

by Anonymousreply 25September 30, 2014 6:49 AM

She is mentally ill as r18 so capably illustrates.

by Anonymousreply 26September 30, 2014 6:51 AM

She seems to think that the problem is women who fail to defend themselves, not men who attack women or authorities who fail to protect people from assault.

Only the smallest, least useful minds concentrate on blaming the victim.

by Anonymousreply 27September 30, 2014 7:12 AM

Goddamn I really fucking hate Italians.

by Anonymousreply 28September 30, 2014 7:46 AM

Hey Camille, here's what your beloved Madonna thinks of black people:

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by Anonymousreply 29September 30, 2014 7:47 AM

Even homophobes don't like your kind, Camille:

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by Anonymousreply 30September 30, 2014 8:05 AM

[quote]let's be honest, "oafish hookup melodrama" is an incredibly apt description of what's going on in colleges

Same as it ever was, my friend. Hookup melodrama has been going on at universities for the better part of a century.

Sure, there are some young women and feminists who truly say, "I shouldn't have to protect myself; therefore, I won't, and it's sexist to expect me to." And that's a problem because, as much as they're right that rape is the fault of the rapist and no one else, you still have to protect yourself from fucking EVERYTHING in society. From robbery, carjacking, drunk drivers, unmedicated mentally ill people, scam artists, and more. Rapists are on that list, too, and all the talk about what's fair and what isn't won't help if you're in a situation where some mace or a working knowledge of self defense could have helped you.

But Paglia goes one further and says the whole problem is women, not rapists, and that's just stupid.

by Anonymousreply 31September 30, 2014 8:31 AM

How can a lesbian hate liberal women so much?

by Anonymousreply 32September 30, 2014 8:37 AM

She uses waaay too many five-dollar words.

If she can't convince you with her ideas, she'll dazzle and overwhelm you with her excessively verbose and overblown diction until you'll agree to anything just to get her to STFU!

by Anonymousreply 33September 30, 2014 9:16 AM

[quote]other women with Native American ancestry — including two overpowering celebrity icons with whom I have worked.

Who are the two squaws she's talking about?

by Anonymousreply 34September 30, 2014 9:18 AM

[quote]Sex crime springs from fantasy, hallucination, delusion, and obsession. A random young woman becomes the scapegoat for a regressive rage against female sexual power: “You made me do this.” Academic clichés about the “commodification” of women under capitalism make little sense here: It is women’s superior biological status as magical life-creator that is profaned and annihilated by the barbarism of sex crime.

Paglia's nuts, but I agree with this TBH. Explains why serial killers are almost always men.

by Anonymousreply 35September 30, 2014 9:28 AM

Her argument boils down to: rape is the fault of women and liberals.

by Anonymousreply 36September 30, 2014 12:11 PM

[36] is right, everything is the fault of men. Specifically, white men.

by Anonymousreply 37September 30, 2014 12:52 PM

Sarah Palin's bizarre word salad actually does remind Paglia of her own. It's just the same silly themes and fractured thoughts processed into sentences when possible and spewed out. No wonder Paglia likes her, she validates all of the nonsense she herself manufactures.

I can't imagine who finds her interesting or relevant!

by Anonymousreply 38September 30, 2014 12:52 PM

r36, so rape IS the fault of women, you think?

(skin color was not mentioned by anyone but you.)

by Anonymousreply 39September 30, 2014 12:58 PM

'Colleges should stick to academics and stop their infantilizing supervision of students’ dating lives'

-they can't Camille, students and their parents are highly litigious.

'the true danger to young women, too often distracted by cellphones or iPods in public places (is)the ancient sex crime of abduction and murder'

-no, it isn't. Abduction and murder are rare.

'majority of campus incidents being carelessly described as sexual assault are not felonious rape (involving force or drugs) but oafish hookup melodramas'

-the majority of Camille Paglia's work, carelessly described as academic, is not serious scholarship but half-baked garbage built around a single tired theme (nature v. civilisation)

'It is well-established that the visual faculties play a bigger role in male sexuality, which accounts for the greater male interest in pornography.'

-Porn is made for men, Camille, and it should not surprise you that most women don't get turned on by double anal, facials, being slapped around, in the 'ritualistic' manner beloved of your imagined sexual predator.

'The sexual stalker, who is often an alienated loser'

-They don't all look like monsters from central casting, Camille. See: Ted Bundy.

'They assume that bared flesh and sexy clothes are just a fashion statement containing no messages that might be misread and twisted by a psychotic.'

-most sexual offenders aren't 'psychotic'. The vast majority are in control of themselves and know they are committing an offence, including the psychopathic abductor / murderer.

by Anonymousreply 40September 30, 2014 1:04 PM

indeed, thank you r40.

by Anonymousreply 41September 30, 2014 1:12 PM

While I like an academic who bucks the establishment and challenges liberal orthodoxy, Paglia seems to do so just to garner attention. Does she actually believe this shit? Maybe it is time for her to sit down and have a serious listening session with someone who was raped and see if she can stick to her talking points. Thanks for the breakdown, R40.

And thanks to R18 for the Salon piece on Palin. What the fuck? Does being a lesbian excuse her from making preposterous sexist statements like calling Katie Couric a viper? And does anything Palin has done live suggest that trick editing was necessary to make her look like an idiot?

by Anonymousreply 42September 30, 2014 1:25 PM

Yes. I think this recent TIME column is plain old click-bait.

by Anonymousreply 43September 30, 2014 1:50 PM

I'm glad Camille Paglia lived long enough to watch herself become irrelevant.

by Anonymousreply 44September 30, 2014 1:51 PM

Also...to quote the late great Molly Ivins: "Christ, somebody get this woman a Valium!"

by Anonymousreply 45September 30, 2014 2:32 PM

is she still bitter and single?

by Anonymousreply 46September 30, 2014 5:32 PM

The only difference between Paglia and a nasty, petty, ignorant, Tea Party female is the flow of verbiage.

The hateful feelings are the same, they're just tricked out in articulate, academic language.

by Anonymousreply 47September 30, 2014 5:39 PM

I think dismissing campus rape as all melodrama is terribly wrong, but she has a point somewhere in there. Trying to deny that the straight man has a predatory drive that will take advantage of any opportunity to fuck (some men more than others) IS PC bullshit. It's not blaming the victim, it's reality.

by Anonymousreply 48September 30, 2014 5:39 PM

[quote]The horrors and atrocities of history have been edited out of primary and secondary education except where they can be blamed on racism, sexism, and imperialism — toxins embedded in oppressive outside structures that must be smashed and remade. But the real problem resides in human nature, which religion as well as great art sees as eternally torn by a war between the forces of darkness and light.

She's absolutely right.

by Anonymousreply 49September 30, 2014 5:58 PM

She must have had a momentary, highly imaginative crush on Palin before she knew too much about her.

But she's right about rape (and violence) being a reality no matter how liberal our society or institutions become.

by Anonymousreply 50September 30, 2014 6:08 PM

Have YOU ever raped someone, r50?

If not, then your argument is weak.

by Anonymousreply 51September 30, 2014 6:10 PM

R49,It's just the same old culture wars shit that was popular with conservatives a quarter of a century ago.

Paglia is eternally stuck in 1990.

by Anonymousreply 52September 30, 2014 6:11 PM

She's right about the human nature stuff, and I also agree with her about campus rape. Also, re: campus rape, it seems like many instances of rape are when both participants are drunk or otherwise mentally compromised. Unless someone deliberately drugs another person to have sex with them, I don't see how you can call it rape.

by Anonymousreply 53September 30, 2014 6:12 PM

[quote]Trying to deny that the straight man has a predatory drive that will take advantage of any opportunity to fuck (some men more than others) IS PC bullshit. It's not blaming the victim, it's reality.

Look, if men can invent antibiotics and walk on the moon and work out pi to over 12 trillion digits, they can stop themselves from taking advantage of women who can't consent.

I can't believe the same people who say "fatties don't even TRY to control themselves" give straight men a pass on rape and sexual assault.

by Anonymousreply 54September 30, 2014 6:23 PM

[quote]Does she actually believe this shit? Maybe it is time for her to sit down and have a serious listening session with someone who was raped and see if she can stick to her talking points.

She's been talking out of her ass about women since her first major interview in Spin. She claimed that working class straight women like being abused because it makes the sex so hot, as if this college professor's daughter knows anything about prole life.

She's also talked of being enraged by dates who failed to give up the pussy. She complained of being involuntarily celibate for years, which must be why her stuff often reads like those MRA incel blogs. Her obsession with knocking the easy target of middle class white girls (when she's never been anything else) seems to stem partly from sexual resentment. She also lives in a fantasy land where there's some WASP hegemony holding her back, although she went to Yale.

[quote]It's just the same old culture wars shit that was popular with conservatives a quarter of a century ago. Paglia is eternally stuck in 1990.

Exactly, She's been doing the same contrarian act since then. I watched a video of her and Sandra Bernhard buttering each other up a couple of years ago and it was like watching their old appearances on Letterman and Tom Snyder. As predictable as a Kiss concert.

Paglia likes to be patted on the head by conservative men like Limbaugh, and movement conservatives like to have their reactionary bullshit validated by outsiders. It's a marriage made in hell.

If she were starting out now she'd probably be one of those misogynist trans men like Dean Spade or Chaz Bono.

by Anonymousreply 55September 30, 2014 6:43 PM

urf.

by Anonymousreply 56September 30, 2014 6:45 PM

[quote]is she still bitter and single?

She was stalking some het Brazilian singer for a few years, but I have no idea if this is still going on.

by Anonymousreply 57September 30, 2014 6:46 PM

R57, that Brazilian singer is married to a woman.

by Anonymousreply 58September 30, 2014 6:49 PM

It's not giving straight men a pass, R54. There is a difference between violent rape or date rape where the woman is drugged and rape in which both parties are drunk with their judgment compromised. If a woman leaves the door open for a man to have the opportunity to fuck her, he will take advantage of it. No amount of education is going to change this.

by Anonymousreply 59September 30, 2014 6:50 PM

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

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by Anonymousreply 60September 30, 2014 6:51 PM

Self-control.

Men ARE capable of it.

by Anonymousreply 61September 30, 2014 6:52 PM

[quote]'I don't get along with lesbians at all. They don't like me, and I don't like them'

She doesn't get along with ANYONE.

My college thesis advisor went to graduate school at Yale with Paglia, and she told me everyone who would attack other people in class, even though they all thought she wasn't the brightest orange in the crate.

by Anonymousreply 62September 30, 2014 6:56 PM

wait what?

SHE would attack everyone in class?

not surprising if so.

by Anonymousreply 63September 30, 2014 7:08 PM

I admire Paglia for her scholarship in art, poetry and literature. But when she takes on current events, she huffs too hard on her own fumes.

by Anonymousreply 64September 30, 2014 7:11 PM

Short version:

MEN ARE SAVAGES!!!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 65September 30, 2014 7:11 PM

The problem with a lot of the anti-rape feminist talk I hear is that many of them seem to think that men won't rape if only we'd "teach them not to," which has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Do people really believe that men don't know rape is wrong?? Unless they're mentally ill, they know damn well that taking advantage of a woman is wrong. They do it because the opportunity is there and they DON'T CARE whether the person they're raping doesn't want it or not. They're only thinking about themselves. To some extent, this attitude can be moralized out of the majority of men (hell, people in general) but we're never going to reach a point where there's NO rape and NO violence. Even with sufficient moral teaching, there will still be crime and because of that, people will still need to protect themselves and be cautious. It seems like feminists see all common sense about self-protection as "victim-blaming," which is idiotic.

by Anonymousreply 66September 30, 2014 7:13 PM

[quote]I think dismissing campus rape as all melodrama is terribly wrong, but she has a point somewhere in there. Trying to deny that the straight man has a predatory drive that will take advantage of any opportunity to fuck (some men more than others) IS PC bullshit. It's not blaming the victim, it's reality.

No it's blaming the victim and not reality. If it were reality, there would be a lot more raping and assaulting going on. Reality is that most men do in fact control themselves. I also don't see why you excluded gay men from the cave. Are we somehow less prone to lose our shit and rape and assault given an "opportunity?"

Plus, this is the argument used by people who force women into Burkas "for their own good," since hairy violent men can't be expected to remain sane at the sight of a shapely ankle.

There different kinds of rapist, and not all sexual assault is rape. Paglia reduces the conversation down to something she can sneer at while still sounding moderately sane. But if you break down her ideas, you end up with the same old tired misogyny she's been shilling forever, only it's just not shocking coming from a lesbian anymore.

by Anonymousreply 67September 30, 2014 7:15 PM

yes it was

by Anonymousreply 68October 1, 2014 12:20 PM

I had no idea what a right-wing moron she'd become.

by Anonymousreply 69October 1, 2014 12:25 PM

[quote] Do people really believe that men don't know rape is wrong?? Unless they're mentally ill, they know damn well that taking advantage of a woman is wrong. They do it because the opportunity is there and they DON'T CARE whether the person they're raping doesn't want it or not. They're only thinking about themselves.

You have a point, but you're thinking of rape as the scary date rape drugs/attack in an alley/forcing them into a room and holding them down types. The latest wave in the rape epidemic is also focused on issues of consent and consent where alcohol is involved. It's more subtle. I read somewhere that more men will admit to rape if it's not labelled as rape.

by Anonymousreply 70October 1, 2014 12:38 PM

She always was R69. She had that upstate chip on her shoulder attitude about the big city her whole career.

by Anonymousreply 71October 1, 2014 4:31 PM

I love Camille. Somebody's got to cut through the crap. Most college kids are fucking coddled idiots. Arming women with nothing but politically correct platitudes is not doing them any favors. Nothing is hornier than a male of traditional college age, and they're not always thinking rationally; throw alcohol or drugs into the mix, and you've got problems, college woman! (By the way, I don't mean to insult men here; the biological imperative does seem to overpower all others, especially in youth.)

by Anonymousreply 72October 1, 2014 4:48 PM

Paglia's a professional contrarian, but she does have a way of cutting through liberal pieties.

She recently had some eminently sensible things to say about transgenderism.

[quote]Transgenderism has taken off like a freight train and has become nearly impossible to discuss with the analytic neutrality that honest and ethical scholarship requires…

[quote] I am concerned about the current climate, inflamed by half-baked post-modernist gender theory, which convinces young people who may have other unresolved personal or family issues that sex-reassignment surgery is a golden road to happiness and true identity.

by Anonymousreply 73October 1, 2014 5:18 PM

[quote] If she were starting out now she'd probably be one of those misogynist trans men

If she were starting out now she’d be a power dyke in real estate or on wall street rolling in fancy cars, money, and women. A sex change isn’t required for women to live the American dream anymore. It’s been that way for over 20 years. I’m sorry neither you nor CP got the message, but most women have.

by Anonymousreply 74October 1, 2014 5:57 PM

R74, she actually admitted in an interview that one of the reasons the trans movement troubles her is that she feels she could've easily gotten caught up in it had it been 'in the air' when she was young.

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by Anonymousreply 75October 1, 2014 6:10 PM

she's messed up

by Anonymousreply 76October 1, 2014 6:11 PM

[quote] Transgenderism has taken off like a freight train and has become nearly impossible to discuss with the analytic neutrality that honest and ethical scholarship requires…

Oh, shut up you dyke. This is you and your kind’s fault. I tried to hold back the floodgates to the Lavender Menace; I knew it was a slippery slope. I’d seen what that kind of thing led to during my time of excellence at Smith. But, what did I get for it? Shunned. Excommunicated. By the movement I created, you upstart Paglia. I delight in your demise, however and [italic]whatever[/italic] gets it done.

by Anonymousreply 77October 1, 2014 6:16 PM

She eats her own poop.

by Anonymousreply 78October 1, 2014 6:29 PM

The elite wish to demonize the biological so men and women will hate each other to Facillatate their 500 million earth population goal....so far women seem to be well on their way to despising men, men seem to be lagging as they are the true simpleton sentimentalists

by Anonymousreply 79October 1, 2014 6:38 PM

[quote] she could've easily gotten caught up in it

This explains everything! If she’s this easily led, she is precisely the young woman that she’s writing about in her article. Naive, gullible, and willing to do anything for attention. No wonder she’s so hysterical about this issue. It cuts to close to home. She’s like the Iyanla of college sex.

by Anonymousreply 80October 1, 2014 6:39 PM

I like Camille.

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by Anonymousreply 81October 1, 2014 6:39 PM

R77 = trans, trying desperately to pretend there is some kind of equivalence between being a proud gay and mutilating one's body to fit societal gender roles.

by Anonymousreply 82October 1, 2014 6:41 PM

Camille discussing soaps circa 1994. Her favorite show was Y&R and she makes some very perceptive comments about the now dying genre:

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by Anonymousreply 83October 1, 2014 6:41 PM

R70, I get your point but I'm very wary of calling drunken sex 'rape'. Unless a man deliberately drugs a woman to have sex with her, he shouldn't be charged with rape, period. In most cases, BOTH participants are drunk. Frat parties are full of people drinking, playing drinking games, and then hooking up in the rooms upstairs. If a drunk person can't consent, then who is raping whom in those situations?

Again, if a woman is drugged/roofied, etc. then there's no doubt that that's rape. But I think all this talk of "subtle" rape when alcohol is "involved" (especially between both participants) is completely irresponsible.

by Anonymousreply 84October 1, 2014 6:45 PM

Leave my girl alone, y’all.

by Anonymousreply 85October 1, 2014 6:59 PM

R82,

You proud dykess feministess warrioress. (Or, perhaps you are dumb bleach blonde gay bimbo.) Either way, I bet you don’t even fucking know who Betty Friedan is, do you? Look her up before you open your dainty little tea spout, because you clearly have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

by Anonymousreply 86October 1, 2014 7:08 PM

R82,

You proud dykess feministess warrioress. (Or, perhaps you are dumb bleach blonde gay bimbo.) Either way, I bet you don’t even fucking know who Betty Friedan is, do you? Look her up before you open your dainty little tea spout, because you clearly have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

by Anonymousreply 87October 1, 2014 7:10 PM

Well, that was embarrassing, but I wasn't sure my phone posted and I wanted you to get the message good: learn your his/ and herstory, squirt!

by Anonymousreply 88October 1, 2014 7:14 PM

[quote] she actually admitted in an interview that one of the reasons the trans movement troubles her is that she feels she could've easily gotten caught up in it had it been 'in the air' when she was young.

Great. I guess they’ll be a video of her fingering some strange woman posted on DL when she finally decides to “embrace life as a man” at the feverish age of 89.

by Anonymousreply 89October 1, 2014 7:17 PM

I agree that rape victims should always go to the cops. Regardless if it happened on campus. Do colleges investigate and prosecute murderers?

However, I disagree that men are animals who can't control themselves in the presence of sexily dress co-ed (per her last paragraph in r1).

The rest of her article is the usual CP BS. Someone posted that she is paid to betray feminists. I agree.

She probably was hawt for one and got rejected, so now she's bitter and hateful.

by Anonymousreply 90October 1, 2014 8:28 PM

Cops aren't always the most sympathetic. But, for the shitload of dough these girls are plopping down to go these schools, they should be able to trust college security to handle these matters and collaborate with police. Campus security is being paid for in part on their dime.

Campus security is also the first line of defense at college. If there's a rapist (or, burglar) on the loose, they are in the best position to deal with it not cops whose station might be miles and miles away.

In addition, just like cheating and other disciplinary actions, rapists should be held accountable by the school they attend and expelled- which is another reason why girls need to go to campus security to report it.

by Anonymousreply 91October 1, 2014 8:52 PM

Yeah, plump, pampered little frat boys are wild men on the edge of "fragile" civilization. What an idiot.

by Anonymousreply 92October 1, 2014 11:16 PM

The amazing thing about all of this is that the professional contrarian is still going strong like an outlier Energizer Bunny. Se is the lesbian Ann Coulter: controversy trumps content every time.

by Anonymousreply 93October 1, 2014 11:23 PM

She gets far too much attention. She's a terrible bore.

by Anonymousreply 94October 1, 2014 11:47 PM

No it's not r14.

It speaks directly to how women (& men, too) can prevent it.

I think people need to be honest about how & why it occurs before they can eradicate it.

by Anonymousreply 95October 2, 2014 12:04 AM

Cute, r95.

Women have been told that rape is something they have the power to prevent: if they're careful, if they dress modestly, if they don't stay out late, if they walk in groups, if they avoid sketchy areas.

Yet, this doesn't seem to have much to done much to decrease rape. Even women who do all the above still get raped. Why might that be? Was something perhaps overlooked? Don't strain your wee delicate brain too hard while you try to form a thought.

Oh, let's just be honest. You don't care about what happens to muffs anyway. Except, the one in your car...

by Anonymousreply 96October 2, 2014 12:56 AM

r96 it's common sense not to drink to the point of stupor for any number of reasons, rape included. It's also common sense to be aware of your surroundings, particularly in central urban areas like bar districts.

Women who insist on doing whatever the fuck they want because they've been indoctrinated by SJWs on tumblr and uni campuses are doing themselves a disservice.

The millenials in particular refuse to accept or deal with this reality because they weren't raised for it. They can't buy their way out, run to mommy and/or daddy or pawn it off on somebody else to deal with, as many millenials do in other areas like jobs and education.

Paglia's point is spot on.

I'm not saying that rapes will immediately stop if all women take these precautions, but it's simple logic that many will be prevented. It doesn't mean those who don't deserve it, or that men should not be held to account regardless.

Oh, and if I was a true misogynist, as you imply, I wouldn't give a fuck at all; I'd just gleefully watch them suffer.

by Anonymousreply 97October 2, 2014 1:08 AM

R96, because not one of those precautions addresses the most frequent perpetrator, someone she knows.

But we had a random campus rapist, who attacked at night, when I was in university. He never went after women in groups. That's just common sense.

by Anonymousreply 98October 2, 2014 1:09 AM

Short version:

MEN ARE SAVAGES!!!!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 99October 2, 2014 1:17 AM

R96: NOTHING will prevent rape. It will always exist as long as men and women live together just like murder, theft, etc.

Feminists seem to forget that a lot of rapes occur because the opportunity is there for there to do it. Do you think that college aged guys don't know it's wrong to rape girls? Do you think grown men don't know it's wrong to molest children? They know damn well that it's wrong but they do it anyway because they think they can get away with it (i.e the girl seems vulnerable, etc).

Tell me this: how exactly do plan on shifting blame to men other than incarcerating them when they're caught? In my opinion, the biggest change that can be made with how we deal with sexual assault is to stop thinking that athletes should be able to get away with their shitty behavior on campus. Colleges should do more to investigate rape cases instead of brushing them under the rug. Similarly, guys who rape should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law regardless of how the girl was dressed or her state of mind. Beyond that, what are you going to do? Hold anti-rape workshops for men? It's a damn crime that's just as much a violation of personal space and safety as violence and murder. Should we try to prevent murder by shaming murderers?

by Anonymousreply 100October 2, 2014 1:20 AM

[quote] [R96] it's common sense not to drink to the point of stupor for any number of reasons, rape included. It's also common sense to be aware of your surroundings, particularly in central urban areas like bar districts.

What the fuck did I say? Let’s go back and read it again:

[quote] Yet, this doesn't seem to have much to done much to decrease rape. Even women who do all the above still get raped. Why might that be? Was something perhaps overlooked?

How is the above hard to understand? Please, tell me and I'll go through it again.

[quote] The millenials in particular refuse to accept or deal with this reality because they weren't raised for it. They can't buy their way out, run to mommy and/or daddy or pawn it off on somebody else to deal with, as many millenials do in other areas like jobs and education.

So, all millennials are middle class? Upper class? Princesses? I mean, where do you even get that from? MTV? VH1? E!? Put down the clicker and get out more.

[quote] Paglia's point is spot on.

Honey, you’ve proven you don’t have the reading comprehension to qualify that.

[quote] I'm not saying that rapes will immediately stop if all women take these precautions, but it's simple logic that many will be prevented. It doesn't mean those who don't deserve it, or that men should not be held to account regardless.

Women do all the things you say. They get tired of having to shoulder the burden of rape. No other crime is like this.

[quote] "My benz got stolen." "Well, why did you buy such a nice car? Why did you leave it unattended?"

If a cop said that to you, you’d sue the shit out of him, his department, his precinct, and demand some of his pension, too.

Oh, no. Sorry, not you. You're level-headed. You're so not a millennial. You’d just giggle and say, yeah. Next time I’ll be more careful.

by Anonymousreply 101October 2, 2014 2:52 AM

R98, but on “Murder She Wrote” all the rapists are random men waiting in bushes to trap unsuspecting naive sluts. That’s wrong? TV isn't real life?

by Anonymousreply 102October 2, 2014 2:55 AM

[quote] Women do all the things you say. They get tired of having to shoulder the burden of rape. No other crime is like this.

That's a toughie. What's the solution? One would think education.

by Anonymousreply 103October 2, 2014 2:59 AM

[quote] Tell me this: how exactly do plan on shifting blame to men other than incarcerating them when they're caught? In my opinion, the biggest change that can be made with how we deal with sexual assault is to stop thinking that athletes should be able to get away with their shitty behavior on campus. Colleges should do more to investigate rape cases instead of brushing them under the rug. Similarly, guys who rape should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law regardless of how the girl was dressed or her state of mind.

That’s it. That’s all the fuck they have to do. Hold rapists accountable for their crimes each and every time. Don’t make it look easy to get away with. Don't encourage victims and witnesses to be silent. Women don’t even get that now. Neither do men.

[quote] Beyond that, what are you going to do? Hold anti-rape workshops for men? It's a damn crime that's just as much a violation of personal space and safety as violence and murder. Should we try to prevent murder by shaming murderers?

What do you think a felony is?

by Anonymousreply 104October 2, 2014 3:08 AM

I wanted to make my last post clearer for those of us who might not know what I was referring to:

[quote] Should we try to prevent murder by shaming murderers?

What do you think a felony is?

And, while I’m at it:

[quote] Hold anti-rape workshops for men?

Women are made to believe that the question of rape for them is when, not if, since childhood. If boys were made to believe that just like with murder, the punishment for rape would sure and severe, that would be a very good start.

by Anonymousreply 105October 2, 2014 3:24 AM

[quote]Yeah, plump, pampered little frat boys are wild men on the edge of "fragile" civilization.

"plump"???

The ultimate Datalounge insult! They're not just pampered rapists... they're FAT!!!

by Anonymousreply 106October 2, 2014 3:27 AM

Camille Paglia is a whore.

by Anonymousreply 107October 2, 2014 3:39 AM

no just a bore

by Anonymousreply 108October 2, 2014 10:39 AM

OK -- yet again, why do you gay boys give a fuck?? This topic has nothing whatsoever to do with you. Another example of gay men imagining themselves experts on something that only involves women (and STRAIGHT men). Why do all men think they know everything about everything?? No wonder I'm a lesbian.

Now, boys, go back to your porn and your gentlemen presenting their holes, and leave the ladies alone.

by Anonymousreply 109October 2, 2014 11:16 AM

r109, I am a lesbian too, and I give a fuck because I can't stand her.

by Anonymousreply 110October 2, 2014 1:14 PM

More paglia bashing please.

by Anonymousreply 111October 2, 2014 5:01 PM

The link below will take you to the greatest Paglia takedown ever written. It's from 1991 and is by the brilliant and hilarious Molly Ivins, who is sorely missed.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 112October 2, 2014 5:25 PM

[quote]OK -- yet again, why do you gay boys give a fuck?? This topic has nothing whatsoever to do with you. Another example of gay men imagining themselves experts on something that only involves women (and STRAIGHT men). Why do all men think they know everything about everything?? No wonder I'm a lesbian.

You're a lesbian because no man will have you.

by Anonymousreply 113October 2, 2014 5:35 PM

THANK YOU r112!!!!

by Anonymousreply 114October 2, 2014 5:47 PM

Yeah, thanks R112. That Molly Ivins piece was perfect.

And it demonstrates that broken record Paglia is still recycling her one or two idiotic idees fixes decades later.

by Anonymousreply 115October 2, 2014 5:59 PM

"Colleges should stick to academics and stop their infantilizing supervision of students’ dating lives, an authoritarian intrusion that borders on violation of civil liberties. Real crimes should be reported to the police, not to haphazard and ill-trained campus grievance committees."

I agree with this completely.

by Anonymousreply 116October 2, 2014 6:05 PM

In what way does Paglia think colleges are supervising students' dating lives? Outside of ultra-religious schools with various rules, colleges are not doing that.

Investigating a reported sexual assault is not an "authoritarian intrusion."

by Anonymousreply 117October 2, 2014 6:24 PM

It's amazing TIME Magazine keeps on losing the youth market when they have relevant hipsters like Camille Paglia writing their op-eds!

by Anonymousreply 118October 2, 2014 6:38 PM

R117, investigating crime should be the job of the police, period.

by Anonymousreply 119October 2, 2014 7:23 PM

r109 Because we have friends and Moms and sisters, and because Paglia is the cuntiest cunt who ever cunted.

by Anonymousreply 120October 2, 2014 7:33 PM

R119, Under Title IX and the Clery act, all colleges and universities receiving federal funds are required to report and investigate alleged sexual misconduct including discrimination, harassment, assault, etc.

by Anonymousreply 121October 2, 2014 7:55 PM

R121, I know. I don't think the correct people are investigating and punishing crimes on campus.

by Anonymousreply 122October 2, 2014 7:59 PM

Camille is absolutely correct. College boys are as capable as any other men of brutish behavior. College girls who who insist on behaving like drunken frat brothers and then mix with college boys put themselves in jeopardy of getting raped.

by Anonymousreply 123October 3, 2014 12:27 AM

Those sluts deserve what they get.

by Anonymousreply 124October 3, 2014 12:51 AM

[quote]College girls who who insist on behaving like drunken frat brothers and then mix with college boys put themselves in jeopardy of getting raped.

Shut the fuck up, R123, you boorish specimen of zombie life.

Old ladies sitting in their living rooms or walking home from the grocery store get raped. What did they do to put themselves in jeopardy?

You're a fool. And you hate women who, with any luck, hate you right back.

by Anonymousreply 125October 3, 2014 1:15 AM

Impolitic, by Molly Ivins

I Am the Cosmos

Austin, Texas — “So write about Camille Paglia,” suggested the editor. Like any normal person, I replied, “And who the hell might she be?”

Big cheese in New York intellectual circles. The latest rage. Hot stuff. Controversial.

But I’m not good on New York intellectual controversies, I explained. Could never bring myself to give a rat’s ass about Jerzy Kosinski. Never read Andy Warhol’s diaries. Can never remember the name of the editor of this New Whatsit, the neo-con critical rag. I’m a no-hoper on this stuff, practically a professional provincial.

Read Paglia, says he, you’ll have an opinion. So I did; and I do.

Christ! Get this woman a Valium!

Hand her a gin. Try meditation. Camille, honey, calm down!

The noise is about her oeuvre, as we always say in Lubbock: Sexual Personae: Art and Decadence from Nefertiti to Emily Dickinson. In very brief, for those of you who have been playing hooky from the New York Review of Books, Ms. Paglia’s contention is that “the history of western civilization has been a constant struggle between … two impulses, an unending tennis match between cold, Apollonian categorization and Dionysian lust and chaos.” Jeez, me too. I always thought the world was divided into only two kinds of people — those who think the world is divided into only two kinds of people, and those who don’t.

You think perhaps this is a cheap shot, that I have searched her work and caught Ms. Paglia in a rare moment of sweeping generalization, easy to make fun of? Au contraire, as we always say in Amarillo; the sweeping generalization is her signature. In fact, her work consists of damn little else. She is the queen of the categorical statement.

Never one to dodge a simple dichotomy when she can set one up, Ms. Paglia holds that the entire error of western civilization stems from denying that nature is a kind of nasty, funky, violent, wet dream, and that Judeo-Christianity has been one long effort to ignore this. She pegs poor old Rousseau, that fathead, as the initiator of the silly notion that nature is benign and glorious and that only civilization corrupts.

Right away, I got a problem. Happens I have spent a lot of my life in the wilderness, and also a lot of my life in bars. When I want sex and violence, I go to a Texas honky-tonk. When I want peace and quiet, I head for the woods. Just as a minor historical correction to Ms. Paglia, Rousseau did not invent the concept of benign Nature. Among the first writers to hold that nature was a more salubrious environment from man than the corruptions of civilization were the Roman Stoics — rather a clear-eyed lot, I always thought.

Now why, you naturally ask, would anyone care about whether a reviewer has ever done any serious camping? Ah, but you do not yet know the Camille Paglia school of I-am-the-cosmos argument. Ms. Paglia believes that all her personal experiences are Seminal. Indeed, Definitive. She credits a large part of her supposed wisdom to having been born post-World War II and thus having been raised on television. Damn me, so was I.

In addition to the intrinsic cultural superiority Ms. Paglia attributes to herself from having grown up watching television (“It’s Howdy-Doody Time” obviously made us all smarter), she also considers her own taste in music to be of enormous significance. “From the moment the feminist movement was born, it descended into dogma,” she told an interviewer for New York magazine. “They stifled any kind of debate, any kind of dissent. Okay, it’s Yale, it’s New Haven in ’69, I am a rock fanatic, okay …. So I was talking about taste to these female rock musicians, and I said the Rolling Stones were the greatest rock band, and that just set them off. They said, `The Rolling Stones are sexist, and it’s bad music because it’s sexist.’ I said: `Wait a minute. You can’t make a judgements about art on the basis of whether it fits into some dogma.’ And now they’re yelling, screaming, saying that nothing that demeans women can be art.

(continued)

by Anonymousreply 126October 3, 2014 1:18 AM

“You see, right from the start it was impossible for me to be taken into the feminist movement, okay? The only art they will permit is art that gives a positive image of women. I said, `That’s like the Soviet Union; that is the demagogic, propagandistic view of art.’ ”

Well, by George, as a First Amendment absolutist, you’ll find me willing to spring to the defense of Camille Paglia’s right to be a feminist Rolling Stones fan any hour, day or night. Come to think of it, who the hell was the Stalin who wouldn’t let her do that? I went back and researched the ’69 politburo, and all I could find was Betty Friedan, Bella Abzug, and Gloria Steinem, none of whom ever seems to have come out against rock music.

I have myself quite cheerfully been both a country-music fan and a feminist for years — if Camille Paglia is the cosmos, so am I. When some fellow feminist doesn’t like my music (How could you not like “You are just another sticky wheel on the grocery cart of life”?), I have always felt free to say, in my politically correct feminist fashion, “Fuck off.”

In a conversation printed in Harper’s magazine, Paglia held forth on on of her favorite themes — Madonna, the pop singer: “The latest atavistic discoverer of the pagan heart of Catholicism is Madonna. This is what she’s up to. She doesn’t completely understand it herself. When she goes on Nightline and makes speeches about celebrating the body, as if she’s some sort of Woodstock hippie, she’s way off. She needs me to tell her.” I doubt that.

Bram Dijkstra, author of a much-praised book, Idols of Perversity, which is a sort of mirror image of Sexual Personae, said that Paglia “literally drags the whole nineteenth-century ideological structure back into the late-eighteenth century, really completely unchanged. What’s so amazing is that she takes all that nineteenth-century stuff, Darwinism and social Darwinism, and she re-asserts it and reaffirms it in this incredibly dualistic fashion. In any situation, she establishes the lowest common denominator of a point. She says, `This is the feminist point of view,’ and overturns it by standing it on its head. She doesn’t go outside what she critiques; she simply puts out the opposite of it.”

“For example,” Dijkstra continues, “she claims, `Feminism blames rape on pornography,’ which is truly the reductio ad absurdum of the feminist point of view. Of course, there are very many feminist points of view, but then she blows away this extremely simplified opposite, and we are supposed to consider this erudition. She writes aphorisms and then throws them out, one after the other, so rapid-fire the reader is exhausted.”

Tracing Paglia’s intellectual ancestry is a telling exercise; she’s the lineal descendant of Ayn Rand, who in turn was a student of William Graham Sumner, one of the early American sociologists and an enormously successful popularzier of social Darwinism. Sumner was in turn a disciple of Herbert Spencer, that splendid nineteenth-century kook. Because Paglia reasserts ideas so ingrained in our thinking, she has become popular by reaffirming common prejudices.

Paglia’s obsession with de Sade is beyond my competence, although the glorification of sadomasochism can easily be read as a rationalization of bondage into imagined power, a characteristic process of masochistic transfer. Dijkstra suggests that the Sadean notion of the executioner’s assistant is critical to her thinking, though one wonders if there is not also some identification with de Sade the Catholic aristocrat.

Paglia’s view of sex — that it is irrational, violent, immoral, and wounding — is so glum that one hesitates to suggest that it might be instead, well, a lot of fun, and maybe even affectionate and loving.

Far less forgivable is Paglia’s consistent confusion of feminism with yuppies. What does she think she’s doing? Paglia holds feminists responsible for the bizarre blight created by John T. Molloy, author of Dress for Success, which caused a blessedly brief crop of young women, all apparently aspiring to be executive vice-presidents, to appear in the corporate halls wearing those awful sand-colored baggy suits with little floppy bow ties around their necks.

Why Paglia lays the blame for this at the feet of feminism is beyond me. Whatever our other aims may have been, no one in the feminist movement ever thought you are what you wear. The only coherent fashion statement I can recall from the entire movement was the suggestion that Mrs. Cleaver, Beaver’s mom, would on the whole have been a happier woman had she not persisted in vacuuming while wearing high heels. This, I still believe.

In an even more hilarious leap, Paglia contends that feminism is responsible for the aerobics craze and concern over thin thighs. Speaking as a beer-drinking feminist whose idea of watching her diet is to choose either the baked potato with sour cream or with butter, but not with both, I find this loony beyond all hope — and I am the cosmos, too.

What we have here, fellow citizens, is a crassly egocentric, raving twit. The Norman Podhoretz of our gender. That this woman is actually taken seriously as a thinker in New York intellectual circles is a clear sign of decadence, decay, and hopeless pinheadedness. Has no one in the nation’s intellectual capital the background and ability to see through a web of categorical assertions? One fashionable line of response to Paglia is to claim that even though she may be fundamentally off-base, she has “flashes of brilliance.” If so, I missed them in her oceans of swill.

One of her latest efforts at playing enfant terrible in intellectual circles was a peppy essay for Newsday, claiming that either there is no such thing as date rape or, if there is, it’s women’s fault because we dress so provocatively. Thanks, Camille, I’ve got some Texas fraternity boys I want you to meet.

There is one area in which I think Paglia and I would agree that politically correct feminism has produced a noticeable inequity. Nowadays, when a woman behaves in a hysterical and disagreeable fashion, we say, “Poor dear, it’s probably PMS.” Whereas, if a man behaves in a hysterical and disagreeable fashion, we say, “What an asshole.” Let me leap to correct this unfairness by saying of Paglia: Sheesh, what an asshole.

********************

by Anonymousreply 127October 3, 2014 1:18 AM

Paglia is certainly dated, but after reading that I wouldn't say that the down-home, "I ain't one of those sophisticated city folks" shtick has aged well either.

It's Garrison Keillor with a different accent.

by Anonymousreply 128October 3, 2014 1:26 AM

True. Look at how inept that woman who ran the Secret Service was.

by Anonymousreply 129October 3, 2014 1:30 AM

That column is from 20 years ago. Molly is gone, may she rest in peace.

Paglia is currently shilling the same snake oil, so I fail to see how that critique is applicable.

by Anonymousreply 130October 3, 2014 1:31 AM

[quote]True. Look at how inept that woman who ran the Secret Service was.

Obama chose on identity, not on skill.

That's all he knows and, I guess it worked out well for him, if not for us.

Luckily, the off-duty SS agent was there doing the job.

Maybe that person should be the next chief.

by Anonymousreply 131October 3, 2014 1:39 AM

Exactly true r125

But young women who attend frat parties have a whole lot more potential rape situations to consider.

by Anonymousreply 132October 3, 2014 1:44 AM

People who leave the house have a whole lot more potential rape situations to consider than people who don't, therefore - Camille and Camillettes - people who leave the house must shoulder a lot more of the responsibility for being raped. Duh.

Why don't y'all just head over to your local college and start passing out burqas while you give everyone lectures on demon rum and co-ed fraternization?

by Anonymousreply 133October 3, 2014 2:22 AM

You've lost me R133

Rape is a reality.

It happens

You will never stop it from happening.

How about treating the victims.

by Anonymousreply 134October 3, 2014 2:47 AM

Actually R134, you've lost me.

I have no idea what your post means or in what way it is supposed to have anything to do with mine.

Best of luck to you, dear.

by Anonymousreply 135October 3, 2014 3:09 AM

Molly Ivins missed the true evil Bush represented, but remember, she was living in Texas, and she did pretty well, considering that.

by Anonymousreply 136October 3, 2014 4:22 AM

miss her to this day

by Anonymousreply 137October 3, 2014 10:34 AM

r126 and r127=

pretentiously pretentious versus pretentiously unpretentious. No way to sugarcoat how unsavory they both are.

by Anonymousreply 138October 4, 2014 3:29 AM

If don't want the contents (sexism, misogyny, gender discrimination, objectification, juvenilization), stop buying the (social)package.

by Anonymousreply 139October 4, 2014 3:42 AM

?

by Anonymousreply 140October 4, 2014 5:32 PM

No one asks to be raped just like no one asks to be robbed. No one deserves to be raped just like no one deserves to be robbed.

But to extend an earlier metaphor up-thread.... If you drive to the most crime-ridden ghetto in the city and drunkenly leave your Mercedes on the street with the keys in the ignition and the engine running and it gets stolen, is it really fair to claim there's a culture of robbery in the US and you're the victim?

by Anonymousreply 141October 4, 2014 5:45 PM

Fairness doesn't matter R141 women are irrational emotional beings they need the whole world to make them feel safe and cuddly, the sheer demented ness of this wish will never sink in to women, their white knights, and legions of pandering politicians

by Anonymousreply 142October 5, 2014 6:37 AM

[quote] But to extend an earlier metaphor up-thread....

[quote] most crime-ridden ghetto

Clearly racist what you're saying, but these women are at college where most of the men are upstanding and [italic]white[/italic].

[quote]drunkenly leave your Mercedes on the street

Many of the women who are assaulted are not Mercedes. Looks and weight have nothing to do with rape.

[quote] is it really fair to claim there's a culture of robbery in the US and you're the victim?

Yes, it is fair. The "culture of rape" is that you even make this analogy. That you assume that most women who get raped left "keys in the ignition and the engine running". This is what allows men to rape and get away with it. A robber usually isn't so lucky. Because, the rapist knows that it will be his victim on trial and not him.

by Anonymousreply 143October 5, 2014 6:59 AM

We get it r142.

You wish you could have a life as easy as women do. You wish you could sit home all day and eat bon-bons and watch KUWTK while your husband slaves away in the office.

by Anonymousreply 144October 5, 2014 7:00 AM

More R111 and R112, please.

by Anonymousreply 145October 5, 2014 7:06 AM

and more of r143 while we're at it.

please.

by Anonymousreply 146October 5, 2014 1:29 PM

b

by Anonymousreply 147October 5, 2014 4:24 PM

[quote]No one asks to be raped just like no one asks to be robbed. No one deserves to be raped just like no one deserves to be robbed. r141

No one asks to be raped...

[quote]But to extend an earlier metaphor up-thread.... If you drive to the most crime-ridden ghetto in the city and drunkenly leave your Mercedes on the street with the keys in the ignition and the engine running and it gets stolen, is it really fair to claim there's a culture of robbery in the US and you're the victim? r141

...except women asking to be raped.

by Anonymousreply 148October 5, 2014 4:28 PM

OMG, r148.

REALLY??!

by Anonymousreply 149October 5, 2014 4:38 PM

[quote] women are irrational emotional beings they need the whole world to make them feel safe and cuddly, the sheer demented ness of this wish will never sink in to women, their white knights, and legions of pandering politicians.

Males are violent predatory beings that need the whole world of children and women available to satisfy their fantasies of a right to orgasm, fueled by definitions of masculine freedom as a sexual impulse reserved for the penis only, endless anonymous sex as the highest societal goal, and the production of semen (not babies but semen) as stuff from the angels, to be worshiped as proof of an evolved superiority.

by Anonymousreply 150October 5, 2014 5:01 PM

R150 sounds unhinged, this is a gay site Frau get a clue stupid

by Anonymousreply 151October 5, 2014 6:16 PM

R150's cunt lips need to pulled over her head so she doesn't drown in the rain.

by Anonymousreply 152October 5, 2014 6:23 PM

it's a parody post you fucking hysterical squealing freak.

the 'author' should give you a clue.

by Anonymousreply 153October 5, 2014 7:45 PM

r151 and r152 are too stupid to be believed.

Wow.

by Anonymousreply 154October 5, 2014 8:30 PM

Love, love, love her.

by Anonymousreply 155October 5, 2014 8:32 PM

r143,

"Ghetto" is a word meaning "impoverished and crowded urban neighborhood" that's over 400 years old, predating the creation of most American cities and indeed the arrival of most black and white peoples in America. It's used uncontroversially in many contexts. (And never mind that there are Russian ghettos and Irish ghettos etc).

But if your delicate sensibilities (snicker) are truly offended by the word, substitute the word "neighborhood" there. The example still holds. You're obviously just concentrating on irrelevancies to avoid facing the point.

[quote]That you assume that most women who get raped

Where did I say anything about MOST women? My point is about personal responsibility in some cases. The example clearly shows that there are instances where one's own actions and decisions play a role in a crime. Having your car taken at gun point is different than, say, drunkenly leaving it in a dangerous neighborhood with the engine running. For a society to pretend that the exact same crime has been committed in both instances is insanity.

And infantilizing women by saying they are NEVER responsible for the situations they are in, that they are delicate creatures who must be protected at every turn, that the entire culture is pathological, is not feminist btw.

by Anonymousreply 156October 6, 2014 1:41 PM

no

by Anonymousreply 157October 6, 2014 1:52 PM

yes

by Anonymousreply 158October 6, 2014 2:09 PM

R156 women never believe they are at fault for anything

Women rely on intuition and emotion when making decisions; men, more on rationality and thought. It is obvious that the rational approach is better: therefore, feminism, by wishing to place women in positions of authority, has caused the emotionalisation of our society—so that politics tends to be dominated by sentimental appeals to feelings rather than logical appeals to factual arguments. This is a Bad Thing. We can only become a rational society again by putting men back in charge.

by Anonymousreply 159October 6, 2014 4:27 PM

...when a man decides to rape a woman, is that based on rational thought, r159?

by Anonymousreply 160October 6, 2014 4:30 PM

When women lie about being raped R160 is that based on emotion

by Anonymousreply 161October 6, 2014 4:33 PM

[R159] Hi Camille! Glad you could join the discussion and provide your well-researched views on life.

by Anonymousreply 162October 6, 2014 4:40 PM

r161 is a hateful human being.

by Anonymousreply 163October 6, 2014 7:11 PM

[quote]women never believe they are at fault for anything

That statement is so simplistic, it's downright childish.

Bottom line: rape is only rational to other rapists.

There was a study a while back that if a guy knew he could totally get away with rape, then he is more likely than not to rape.

So look at the crimes of opportunity. I guess college men are like pick pockets always on the make. If you don't protect yourself from them, it's your fault your pocket got picked. Because that's what pick pocketers do. They pick pockets. It can't be stopped. You have to accept that they exist, and are everywhere and can pick your pocket at anytime.

Everybody knows that straight guys get women drunk on purpose to loosen their inhibitions....which really means to weaken women so they can have their way with them. That's why frat parties are known for keggers, body shots, full liquor bars, vats of alcoholic punch, etc.

And now they're known for roofies.

So I guess women are going to have to design an antidote to roofies and swallow that prior to going to a party. And if she doesn't do that, then it's her fault she got 'roofed because nobody could possibly expect a college man to not skip her a roofie.

by Anonymousreply 164October 6, 2014 7:47 PM

R164 is full of hate

by Anonymousreply 165October 6, 2014 7:53 PM

[quote]Everybody knows that straight guys get women drunk on purpose to loosen their inhibitions....which really means to weaken women so they can have their way with them. That's why frat parties are known for keggers, body shots, full liquor bars, vats of alcoholic punch, etc.

What the fuck? Are you serious, R164? Women CHOOSE to drink at parties. It's their choice. They're not being force-fed alcohol. If they make the choice to drink and that "loosens their inhibitions," that's their problem. I agree that a man is a rapist if he deliberately ROOFIES a girl but men do not "get women drunk." By doing what? Offering them alcohol that they willingly take?

This is the kind of infantilism that makes feminism seem like a huge joke.

by Anonymousreply 166October 6, 2014 7:58 PM

Your childish conclusions are boring, r165. You are wrong about rape, and have no credibility.

by Anonymousreply 167October 6, 2014 7:58 PM

R166, are you denying that straight guys intentionally get women drunk so they can more easily have sex with them?

Is your resolution then for women to stop drinking alcohol at parties?

And maybe they should wear burkas, too?

So the way to stop pick pocketing is to sew your pockets shut. Should we sew vaginas shut, too? Is that the ONLY way to stop rape?

by Anonymousreply 168October 6, 2014 8:13 PM

R168, I'm not denying that that happens. What I'm saying is that you can't prosecute someone for offering another person a drink, REGARDLESS of their intent. How exactly could you prove in a court of law that a man offered a woman alcohol just to rape her? Especially if he has been drinking too! If a man buys a woman a drink (not roofied) and she accepts it, is he now a rapist for "intentionally getting her drunk"? Should frats force people to bring their own drinks to remove the suspicion that they're only offering alcohol to loosen people up?

Also, you still haven't acknowledged that in a lot of these situations, EVERYONE is drinking, men and women included. It's not like the men are standing around stone cold sober while they ply unsuspecting women with alcohol. They're drunk as hell too. Again, for the 23409th time, if two drunk people "decide" to have sex, then who is raping whom? Who is the rapist in that situation?

by Anonymousreply 169October 6, 2014 8:31 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 170October 6, 2014 8:33 PM

Also, R168, rape is never going to go away--just like crime is never going to go away. I agree that the rape should be more thoroughly investigated and the penalties should be more severe but if you're waiting for the day when the world is rape-free, you (and your great great great great great grandchildren) are going to be waiting a looonng time--that is, FOREVER.

All crime is a fact of life. That includes pickpocketing, murder, robbery, assault--you name it. We can and should do our best to reduce it as much as possible but it will still occur. Doesn't mean the world is going to hell.

by Anonymousreply 171October 6, 2014 8:35 PM

R168 is unhinged and should seek help.

She is most likely a fugly girl a hundred lbs overweight who doesn't get much attention in the real world so has to go shreeeeeeeeeek on a gay topic board

She really is sad and pathetic and should stay off the Internet

by Anonymousreply 172October 6, 2014 8:38 PM

Camille Paglia makes money by putting down women. She endorses Republicans, too. She knows where the money is. The press acts like this is "controversial" but it is the same old right wing shit.

by Anonymousreply 173October 6, 2014 8:38 PM

And one last thing, R168, to answer your question: "Is your resolution then for women to stop drinking alcohol at parties?"

YES. The only difference is that I would not single out women. I would say that if anyone--male or female--does not want to run the risk of agreeing to have sex with someone under "loosened inhibitions," then they shouldn't loosen their inhibitions in the first place. That's the risk of removing inhibitions--you might make a choice that you otherwise wouldn't make. And to top it off, you don't even have a guarantee that the person you're having sex with is an asshole rapist monster. It could just be another drunk idiot whose inhibitions are ALSO loose. And in that situation (which is probably more common than Sober Man and Drunk Woman), there's no one to blame. A woman can't say she was raped by a person in the exact same mental situation as her.

by Anonymousreply 174October 6, 2014 8:39 PM

Is Lena Dunham at R168 and more datalounge's fat Frau troll!!!

by Anonymousreply 175October 6, 2014 8:45 PM

[quote]There was a study a while back that if a guy knew he could totally get away with rape, then he is more likely than not to rape.

In other words: all men everywhere are guilty of the crime of rape even before they actually have committed the crime! That's what I kept telling everyone!!!

You don't need to back this up with any statistics or a link to an actual study. We will just take your word for this as fact!

by Anonymousreply 176October 6, 2014 8:54 PM

R176, that is why rape is tolerated in this society. R171 shares a defeatist attitude....it's impossible to imagine a world without rape, so why bother?

If men cared, then rape would not be a pervasive problem. But look how many men here on DL are defensive and angry upon learning what actual victims of rape think about it. One would think that the angry men here are the actual victims. Why else would you all be so enraged? Or dare I say....hysterical?

Is your rage because of fear of being raped? Is it frustration because rape kits do not get processed but ignored? Are you mad because you have to pay for said ignored rape kits? Are you enraged because even concicted rapists don't get much jail time?

Why are you more pissed off and hurt by rape than the actual people who get raped! And why do you hate the female point of view about rape?

I don't know why. But I do know that it proves that you have no intention of changing the status quo. Unless it's to encourage women to wear burkas and not drink at parties.

by Anonymousreply 177October 6, 2014 9:41 PM

I have a million dollar idea that I'm willing to give away for free:

An anti-rape device that women can install in their vaginas like a tampon. If a penis goes in without her removal of it, then it literally rips off a penis.

That will do a serious dent in the number of rapes that occur. Does she have one, or doesn't she? Is it worth risking your dick?

We can have them installed in our grandmas to keep them safe in nursing homes. As well as in mentally impaired girls and women that are all housed and exploited.

Women can advertise that they are protected by this anti-rape device....bumper sticker on cars. You know, like those NRA stickers.

by Anonymousreply 178October 6, 2014 9:46 PM

R178 fat ugly women seem to have these already, I mean that is why straight men are avoiding them and the fatties have to seek attention by lying about rape

by Anonymousreply 179October 6, 2014 10:16 PM

R177, I can't tell if you're a complete dunce or are deliberately ignoring responses on this thread (I'm leaning towards the former) but we're almost 180 responses into this thread and you still haven't responded to any of the counter arguments you've received on this thread. You accuse the men here of not listening when plenty of people (myself included) have asked you to explain scenarios in which the question of rape is complicated and you've just flat out ignored it.

[quote]Why are you more pissed off and hurt by rape than the actual people who get raped! And why do you hate the female point of view about rape?

Have you even read the responses here? The whole point of this discussion is that "rape" clearly means different things to different people! You obviously think any drunk girl who has sex with someone is raped regardless of the circumstances. And here you are caterwauling because people disagree with that--people for whom, again, you STILL haven't provided counterarguments (i.e. what happens if both people are drunk, etc.)

And I don't know why you're calling people here hysterical when literally everything you've typed has failed to logically address any of the points presented here. You keep mentioning rape victims and what they think about it, yet you're completely ignoring that the word "RAPE" is what's being argued here. You're already jumping to the conclusion that certain women are raped when it has been made clear 234098 times that drunk sex may not actually be rape. Why don't you actually contribute to that discussion instead of lambasting all men here as rape apologists?

by Anonymousreply 180October 6, 2014 10:24 PM

And before anyone jumps down my throat, I realize that my response in R180 repeated certain words too often. I was too busy shaking my damn head to read my post before saving it.

by Anonymousreply 181October 6, 2014 10:26 PM

R180 to our deranged ugly Fat Frau friend, rape is about female power...ie whenever a female wishes to utter the word rape the entire court system and men in blue shall kneel in fealty and her royal bidding and take her word as gospel regardless of if she is lying or fabricating

....because in women's minds women never lie...

when in point of fact all women do is lie...

this is the power women wield in society today and they are not about to give it up in the name of male justice or truth or anything

Women would rather destroy the entire planet than give away a drop of priveledge regardless of how unjust her position

by Anonymousreply 182October 6, 2014 10:35 PM

I know you were trying to piss her off, but all you do is reinforce the stereotype of the lowly, sniveling fag. Utterly embarrassing.

by Anonymousreply 183October 6, 2014 10:58 PM

The man who is living to ejaculate, he's in a predator mode.

by Anonymousreply 184October 6, 2014 11:03 PM

At least, I didn't marry one, r183.

by Anonymousreply 185October 6, 2014 11:06 PM

[quote]when in point of fact all women do is lie...

Oh good lord. Are you posting from jail?

"All women do is lie." Whatever, rape enabler.

by Anonymousreply 186October 6, 2014 11:13 PM

WHOAH r182!

You are unhinged.

by Anonymousreply 187October 6, 2014 11:13 PM

l

by Anonymousreply 188October 7, 2014 10:27 AM

I don't understand either why drunkeness compromises a woman's meaningful consent but not a drunken man's culpability.

by Anonymousreply 189October 7, 2014 12:53 PM

It doesn't.

by Anonymousreply 190October 7, 2014 5:51 PM

Wow R186 you are an unhinged, hateful person

Get a clue

by Anonymousreply 191October 8, 2014 8:37 PM

Also your post in this thread at r152.

Nice try, OP railing against pink ribbons. But you are a creep.

by Anonymousreply 192October 22, 2014 11:14 AM

[quote]Gay guy here, and gay men really do have different experiences with regrettable hook-ups. We get drunk, hook up with a guy, then the next morning realize he's a troll and we never should have hooked up with him and it's like "Oh shit, that was a mistake. Oh, well. That's life." Then we go to brunch and laugh about it with our friends. And that's it. No shame or guilt or feeling violated, etc. It's just another part of living life as an adult.

That's great, but we're talking about rape here. Unless your point was to insinuate that all these rape allegations are just regrettable hookups. In which case, you can fuck off, because you're completely wrong about that. The fact is false rape claims make up a tiny minority of rape cases. A big reason rape isn't taken seriously is because of people like you who try to dismiss the reality of rape. Plenty of guys will do anything for sex and they are not above slipping something in a woman's drink or forcing themselves on her to get it. Let's discuss that, instead of trying to derail the subject by trying to put culpability on women where it doesn't belong.

by Anonymousreply 193October 22, 2014 12:00 PM

r

by Anonymousreply 194October 22, 2014 4:42 PM

Camille Paglia is such an ass. She can't even adequately describe and defend common sense precautions.

Instead of nattering on about animal eyes and savage nature and sexy clothes, how about this, when pointing out how to take precautions for one's safety?

You must take responsibility for looking at the traffic light. You must take responsibility for noticing the number of cars around you, their speed, their method of driving. You don't get behind the wheel of a car or try to cross a highway when you're shitfaced drunk. It's irresponsible. You are robbing yourself of common sense, of your sense of direction, of your ability to rely on your physical reflexes and your psychological and emotional decision making rationales.

This poor choice of behavior shouldn't just be applied to crossing highways or driving cars. It should be applied everywhere. Don't get shitfaced alone in your own apartment. You can fall and break your neck, or decide it's time to end your life right this second by jumping out the window. Don't get shitfaced drunk in bars, either, or at parties. There are lots of dangers out there and one of them happens to be men who are violent. Murder, rape, suicide, accidental falls, accidental drowning, car accidents.... all kinds of bad things happen when you lose control of yourself and your surroundings. So don't do it. Casual hookups can be life threatening, just like casual street crossings can be, when you're blown out of your mind. So hey -- stop drinking yourself into a stupor. This goes for males, too. Your life is a whole lot safer when you are in control of your wits. There's a thin line between "victim blaming" and Darwin Award presentations.

by Anonymousreply 195October 22, 2014 5:19 PM

Bump.

by Anonymousreply 196February 13, 2020 3:00 AM
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