Whoopi versus Geraldine Page in 1985 for Best Actress

THE COLOR PURPLE was nominated for 11 Academy Awards and lost every single one. Of course there were cries of racism. Nevermind that upon the film's release, certain members of the African American community denounced its "racist depiction of black men since BIRTH OF A NATION." There was no bitch-slapping though. I think all the leading actresses nominated that year -- Bancroft, Goldberg, Lange, and Streep were thrilled that Geraldine Page finally won.

R1, they were just butthurt that a black woman (Alice Walker) told the truth about how badly black men have treated (and continue to treat) black women.

Color Purple also failed to be nominated for Best Director, and there was a lot of angst over Spielberg's omission as well. Then there was that loon Margaret Avery and that ad she placed in Variety. Didn't work for her, but did for Melissa Leo a few years back.

And, yes, Whoppi was robbed by an awful, hammy performance from Page but, like Paul Newman a year later, she won for a bad film and performance to make up for the good ones she lost for.

Whoopi won the best actress golden globe so she did have some momentum. I remember Roger Ebert picked Whoopi to win and Meryl won a few of the critics awards. But Geraldine was long overdue to finally take the Oscar home. Always felt Whoopis Oscar for Ghost was a makeup award for not winning for Purple. She was funny in Ghost but brilliant in Purple.

What R4 said.

If Whoopi had won for Color Puple who do you think would have won in 1990 Supporting Actress?

I think I'd have voted for Bening.

Roger Ebert wrote in his original review that Whoopi Goldberg's performance was one of the greatest film debuts in the history of the cinema -- and I agree with him. The film remains watchable to this day due to Whoopi's performance (Oprah and Margaret Avery were also brilliant).

Pauline Kael panned the movie and thought Spielberg was completely out of his element with the material. She felt he treated the character Celie like she was E.T.'s long lost sister.

There are those who think Pauline Kael should have shut up long before she died.

Lupita was brilliant in The Color Purple.

Spielby was out of his element. How does he do the film and sanitize the most brutal parts of the novel? Anything for the heartstrings...and the box office.

Most Oscar watchers had picked Page as the clear favorite that year--she had been nominated many times before, and was an accomplished stage actress, and was considered overdue for a win.

The Color Purple was Whoopi's first big film and though she had been well known before in NY for her one-woman Broadway show, she was not yet well known elsewhere by the general public. She got rave reviews for her performance in The Color Purple, but the film wasn't popular with critics--they thought it was too gentle, and that Spielberg was too awed by the source material (which is probably true).

In retrospect, Whoopi's performance was better (Trip to Bountiful is one of Page's worst performances--she's twinkly and phony). But I am not at all surprised Page won.

Interesting footnote Bancroft is nominated for a role Page originated on stage.

As in many other cases, the question asked and answered here is not really the meaningful one. Page was, well, not good. Her “overdue” status was based on the fact that over the years she managed to accumulate many nominations in years which didn't feature strong showings for actresses (1962 best actress lineup, with Bancroft, Davis, Hepburn and Remick, being the exception) and still couldn't win. But this time she faced three former winners, two very recent ones who were seen as too novice for a second win (Lange) never mind a third (Streep) and a veteran whose nomination for a borderline supporting turn (Bancroft) was negligible. Goldberg was fresh and likable but she was in a film which was divisive at best (actually, it was a rather dreadful one, but that’s me) so she was not going to be embraced by controversy-dodging Academy, hence the Page victory.

But the real issue is not who the winner was but who were those who were not even nominated. One can come up with at least five other, non nominated, performances far more deserving of a win, let alone a nomination, than both Page and Goldberg. Cher for Mask, Mia Farrow for The Purple Rose of Cairo, Miranda Richardson for Dance with a Stranger, Kathleen Turner or Prizi’s Honor, Streep for Plenty or critics’ darling Norma Aleandro for The Official Story. Lange and Streep, IMHO, were the only valid nominees that year, Streep probably the most “objectively” deserving of the win, but I’d go with Cher beautiful turn in Mask.

[quote]As in many other cases, the question asked and answered here is not really the meaningful one.

Well smell you bitch!!!

[quote]If Whoopi had won for Color Puple who do you think would have won in 1990 Supporting Actress?

Lorraine Bracco should have won for supporting actress in 1990. She was remarkable in The Goodfellas and was robbed.

Great post r13. You should be a movie historian.

r13 went to another browser and posted as r16.

Thanks, R16. I wish I were, but, Life's a bitch.

Aren't you sweet, R17. You see right through me - where have you been all my life?

Geraldine Page was fantastic in The Trip to Bountiful and fully deserved that Oscar!!!

Geraldine was fabulous in Bountiful, I agree, r20.

NO ONE remembers Geraldine Page in "The Trip To Bountiful". It is a forgotten movie. The same can not be said of "The Color Purple". Page clearly won for lifetime achievement. I told Whoopi to her face that she was robbed and she shook her head and said no "Geraldine was amazing".

The same for Alan Arkin in "Little Miss Sunshine" over Eddie Murphy in "Dreamgirls", he sang, he was funny and heartbreaking and Alda did absolutely nothing to remember, just racked up previous nominations.

The Color Purple reads like black lesbian separatist propaganda. The movie is no better.

I absolutely loved Geraldine Page in A Trip to Bountiful. In fact I enjoyed all the performances in the movie and thought John Heard and Carlin Glynn should has received supporting nods, too.

"The Color Purple reads like black lesbian separatist propaganda. The movie is no better."

Bullshit. In fact, the criticism among black lesbian separatist-sympathetic people was that it was too heteronormative. Celie ends up back with Albert, for fuck's sake, in the book!

I remember that Oscar race vividly, and there was no question that Geraldine Page was going to win that year. A great actress with many nominations behind her and much respect, it was certainly a career-achievement Oscar.

The biggest controversy in that category was that Cher was overlooked for "Mask." That's when she wore that insanely fabulous Mackie dress and said she didn't get the handbook for how serious actresses should dress.

Whoopi Goldberg was very much on the rise, but Spielberg's omission in the director category showed there was a strong contingent that was underwhelmed by "The Color Purple". Oprah or Margaret Avery likely would have won Supporting Actress but probably canceled each other out. Each was wonderful.

My guess is the runner-up that year was, well, Streep. Her film was the big winner of the night, and she was wonderful in it. Had she not won two Oscars within the same decade she was nominated for "Africa", she might have very well taken this one major moment of glory for Page.

What a great year that was for actresses.

The flak that Alice Walker got for writing the book. letting a white man direct the movie, was the basis for her essay "The Same River Twice: Honoring the Difficult." Anyone who likes the movie, should read it.

You're stupid, R23. No, really, you are.

If anything, Steven watered down a lot of the earthier elements from the novel when he made it into a film - especially the lesbianism. And he totally took out Nettie's letters that hinted at a need for Pan-Africanism and the worldwide role of Europeans and White Americans in perpetuating racism against blacks. Steven took a book for black women and turned it into a movie for white fraus. I think Pauline Kael may have been right about her assessment of his work in this film. And I like Steven.

Geraldine Page should never have been given the movie of Sweet Bird of Youth. No Screen Goddess she. It should have gone to Vivien.

Anne Bancroft's reaction to F Murray Abraham's announcement of the win is priceless.

[quote]Page was, well, not good.

R13, Are you saying Page wasn't good in BOUNTIFUL, or she wasn't good in general? Page, along with Julie Harris and Kim Stanley were like the Holy Trinity of Actresses during the Actors Studio heyday -- much beloved and much respected by the acting community, so many of her peers were rooting for her to win and really felt that she was overdue.

R29, yeah, but Page originated the role on Broadway (along with Newman, Rip Torn, and Madeleine Sherwood) and nabbed a Tony nomination, so I guess the producers thought if it worked on stage, it'll work on film.

I love you, r9.

Cher deserved an Oscar nomination for Mask. As did Eric Stoltz. Others snubbed for Best Actress that year included Kathleen Turner for Prizzi's honor, Glenda Jackson for Turtle Diary, Norma Alejandro for the Official story.

Bancroft should have been nominated the year prior for Garbo Talks. The monologue she gives in the hospital is a tour de force. And Streep for Out of Africa is one of her most overrated performances (if not the most overrated). Africa is an overblown bore.

Did Anne Bancroft piss off a lot of people? She had a strange career, not as big as one might have expected.

Geraldine Page might have been magical on stage but on screen she was a giant hambone.

[quote]Geraldine Page might have been magical on stage but on screen she was a giant hambone.

Frankly, that approach only really worked in her Disney films.

Page was lucky that Paul Newman was a movie star. She would have been like Jessica Tandy with Streetcar if that hadn't have been the case.

[quote]Was their bitch slapping?

I'm sorry, OP. Was whose bitch slapping?

Page also benefited from Her screener being one of the last to be sent out.

R31, I was referring to her over indulging turn in The Trip To Bountiful, but you know what, she was not really a great film actress over all too. She’s never seemed to be truly comfortable in front of a camera. Too self consciously actorly. She’s the kind of performer I can, while watching her on screen and feeling she’s pushing too hard, see why she could be good on stage. (Ian McKellen is another one I feel the same about). And as other have mentioned, cruel and unjust as it may be, she was just too dowdy, too matronly to be really effective as a movie star. Life's a bitch.

[quote] too dowdy, too matronly to be really effective as a movie star

I'd agree but, well: M...

R41 pot calling the kettle black, much?

As for actresses that year who deserved a nomination: Gena Rowlands for Love Streams.

She was great as a madam in the pilot to Loving opposite Lloyd Bridges and Bryan Crantson.

[quote]Then there was that loon Margaret Avery and that ad she placed in Variety. Didn't work for her, but did for Melissa Leo a few years back.

First of all, Leo was the undeniable frontrunner after winning Critics Choice, Golden Globe, and SAG in quick succession. She was such a force to be reckoned with that the BAFTAs failed to nominate her (but did nominate her co-star Amy Adams), just so that Helena Bonham Carter would have an easy win for THE KING'S SPEECH, which she did.

I think Leo's frontrunner status went to her head. After winning SAG (the last of the American preliminaries), there was a whole month until the Oscars, and in those four weeks was when Leo made her social faux pas. First, she started to complain that she wasn't getting asked to be on magazine covers but co-star Adams was. In retaliation, she did her own "for your consideration" glam shots, which turned off a lot of people, even those within the industry. In fact, her prospects didn't look too good and Entertainment Weekly even changed their prediciton to Hailee Steinfeld in their last Oscar issue the week of the ceremony.

She shold've kept a low profile until Oscar night. She was the clear frontrunner, way ahead of everyone else. She didn't need to campaign or have anything to prove. But she let it go to her head and tried to make waves. Such a shame because she had acted so cordial and gracious in her speeches all awards season, and people treated her like a great actress who never got her due. Then in February during the four-week lull until Oscar night, she shit away all that goodwill.

But getting back to the matter at hand, Avery's situation was nothing like Leo's. Avery immediately sent out that "Are you there God? It's me, Margaret" letter on THE DAY OF THE NOMINATIONS ANNOUNCEMENT!!! Furthermore, she was never the frontrunner. Meg Tilly won the Golden Globe.

Anjelica Huston was the front runner for best supporting actress. She won all of the critics awards and was Hollywood royalty. Plus she was superb.

SHE'S A VULGARIAN!

Of course there wasn't anything like that, OP. Geraldine Page had been nominated for best actress seven times and for supporting once and had never won. She was in fact the most nominated woman to have never won an oscar and it was completely expected that she would win. If she had no won she would have been 8/0 a record now but not then matched by Peter O'Toole. At 7/0 she and Richard Burton were the most nominated actors who had never won.

This was Whoopi's first movie role.

You do the math.

Melissa Leo studied at The Geraldine Page School of Acting & Pork Store.

Celie does not end up back with Albert in the book. He apologizes and asks her but she says no. They remain friends.

My favorite performance that year was by that Argentine chick in The Official Story. Very subtle and memorable performance.

I only recently watched The Trip to Bountiful and I was surprised how bad it was. It's not just because of Geraldine Page's theatrical performance, but the whole movie looks like a cheap straight-to-TV filmed stage play.

This was a banner year for women in film.

First of all, you had Norma Aleandro giving one of the greatest movie performances of all time in The Official Story (and winning the NY Film Critics Prize). In the many debates about the stupidest non-nomination at the Academy, Aleandro's actor's actor performance in this great movie should be at the top of anyone's list (she would be nominated the following year in a supporting role for Gaby as a consolation prize).

Then you had Cher who proved to the world what she could do with the right material in Mask. You had Kathleen Turner giving a sublimely witty performance in Prizzi's Honor; Turner who at this time personified movie star gorgeous and that a sex symbol could be a smart comedienne. You had Vanessa Redgrave's fearless performance in Wetherby (National Society of Film Critics award, with second and third prize going to Lange and Aleandro). You had a lovely star-in-the-making performance by Kelly McGillis in Witness. Fonda and Bancroft doing strong if predictable work in Agnes of God. And Glenn Close steely, classy and memorable in Jagged Edge. Glenda Jackson opposite Ben Kingsley in Turtle Diary.

And then there was Mia Farrow's extremely moving work in Purple Rose of Cairo (the pinnacle of her legendary collaboration with Woody Allen, one of cinema's greatest director/actor pairings now of course tarnished by personal crisis and scandal).

And they weren't even nominated.

^correction: with one exception, Bancroft was nominated for Agnes of God.

and I had forgotten Rowlands in Love Streams. Thank you r43. What a year for women! In any other year, any one of them might have been a frontrunner.

R48. Not so good at math yourself. Page was nominated for Supporting Actress four times (Hondo, Big Boy Now, Pete 'n' Tillie, Pope of Greenwich Village) and Best Actress three times (Summer and Smoke, Sweet Bird, Interiors) before Bountiful.

true, I made a big mistake; I cop to it

But seriously, because what we know of Whoopi now, aren't you glad that Page beat her, whether she deserved it or not.

She eventually won anyway r57, so I don't see what difference it would make.

Page was magnificent.

this thread is 6 years old

Don't bite.

I saw Page in "Trip To Bountiful." She definitely deserved to win. Her performance was so much better than Whoopi Goldberg's.

And Pauline Kael was right. Spielberg WAS completely out of his element with the material. I mean God, he used slapstick in this movie! And portrayed lesbian love by tinkling wind chimes. He also softened the incident where Sofia hits the mayor. In the novel she gets into a knock down drag out fight with several policeman. In the movie she simply screams helplessly "leave me alone! Leave me alone!" before one whack knocks her out cold. No wonder the damn thing didn't win any Oscars. It didn't deserve any.

Thanks to Spielberg, Whoopi turned in a pretty good performance in Purple?

But she has sucked in every movie she made afterward, including Ghost. She's no actress and her shit-canned movie career has proved it.

Geraldine Page on the other hand remains as one of the greatest American actresses of all time.

Yes, in practically every movie she's ever made Whoopi Goldberg has always played Whoopi Goldberg.

I am happy Geraldine Page won an Oscar, and as it turned out, this was the last chance the Academy had to recognize her before her untimely death the following year. Strangely, for an actress most associated with the theater, the Tony was the one major award that always eluded her, despite many nominations.

She and fellow nominee Anne Bancroft were marvelous actresses, highly respected during their lives, but unfortunately seldom discussed today. Both were selective with their roles, and in some cases this led to missing out on major opportunities (Page turned down the chance to originate Martha on Broadway in ‘Virginia Woolf,’; Bancroft passed on ‘Funny Girl;’ they both declined to play Nurse Ratched in ‘Cuckoo’s Nest’). One more iconic role for both of them and they would be better remembered as the brilliant performers they were.

I always wonder why Alfre Woodard didn't get the lead in The Color Purple.

Oprah told the story of how she called the casting director to ask if she had got the part of Sophia. He was in the audience so this was sweet revenge for Oprah. She said you told me 'we call you, you don't call us. I was just auditioning a real actress Alfre Woodard." He admitted he said that to Oprah. (he had begged to be attend the reunion show she did.)

Alfre couldn't have been up for Sophia. She was too then. Maybe Shug? I think she'd have been better than either Whoopi or Margaret Avery no matter in either role.

TCP always seemed too Disney to me (some called it "Colored People"). Spielberg had no business directing it.

Page was spot-on in her role.

I agree with those that thought Spielberg was out of his element. But there were very few black directors at the time with the prestige, and I don't think there were any black female directors.

I've been posting this idea for awhile. I think Oprah's production company should remake The Color Purple as a tv miniseries. Maybe for HBO or Netflix, or even Oprah's own network. They can expand it, include a lot of material from the book that wasn't in the movie, and they no longer need to soften aspects of the story that Spielberg thought necessary. Oprah could get Ava DuVarny to direct, or maybe Regina King. Like with Whoopi, cast an unknown to play Celie.

I bet Spielberg would even bless the project.

If done right, it would be huge!

[quote] Alfre couldn't have been up for Sophia. She was too then. Maybe Shug? I think she'd have been better than either Whoopi or Margaret Avery no matter in either role.

Tina Turner famously turned down the part for Shug Avery. Quincy Jones said in his memoirs that she said to him, "It took me twenty years to get out of that black shit and I ain't going back." You can't help but to think how phenomenal she would've been in that role.

Chaka Khan and Patti LaBelle said they were offered the role of Shug but turned it down.

If it were today, you'd see Shug offered to Laverne Cox.

^^(forgot to add) which I think would be awful!

I don't think Patti LaBelle turned it down. I think she wanted it but had little acting experience so they passed on her.

Sort of odd that they hired Margaret Avery who needed to be dubbed. Countless Broadway actresses could have played and sang the role.

[quote] I don't think Patti LaBelle turned it down. I think she wanted it but had little acting experience so they passed on her.

She did do Your Arms Too Short To Box With God in the Broadway in 1982. She also played a Shug Avery-like character in Solider Story. I think she would've been great in the role, but honestly, Patti had zero sex appeal back then. The role of Shug needed someone as sexy as Billie Holiday or Josephine Baker but with the vocal ferocity of a Bessie Smith or Dinah Washington.

That's why Tina Turner would've been perfect for that role. But I understand that she felt it was too close to home for her to play Shug.

*She did do "Your Arms Are Too Short To Box With God" in the Broadway revival in 1982

Did she have lines in A Soldier's Story? I remember her having a big musical number but don't really remember any acting.

I can remember Oprah was on some morning show live while they were reading the nominations. They were filming her reaction. She said later on that when the first name read was Margaret Avery her heart sank and she was like it's not going to happen and I agreed to let them film me not be nominated. She jumped up and down like crazy when she was nominated.

Geraldine Page's performance in The Trip to Bountiful is my favourite screen performance of all time. After seeing it for the first time, I couldn't leave my theatre seat for 15 minutes, I was crying so hard. She was genius.

[quote] Did she have lines in A Soldier's Story? I remember her having a big musical number but don't really remember any acting.

She had a one-liner after her second musical number, but that was it, I think.

and yet she still campaigned for an Oscar nom r77!

I loved Page but Cicely Tyson totally made the role her own.

Oh, I didn't know that, R78. That's pretty silly of her when she mostly sung in the film.

But I have to remember that Aretha expected to be nominated for The Blues Brothers for performing one of her signature songs in the film! Lol. Probably one of the best scenes in the film, for sure, but certainly not Oscar-worthy.

I wonder if Diana Ross was ever offered Shug? She could have used a film comeback in the 80s.

If Beatrice Straight could win for Network, Aretha could have been nominated for Blues Brothers.

I was offered "The Trip To Bountiful" but Gary turned it down. Instead signing me for the pilot "Lucy's Back!" about a young couple (Lauren Tewes and Jeff Conaway) haunted by the previous resident of their new house. It didn't sell, and then I died.

but r82 Beatrice Strait goes through a whole range of emotions in those five minutes

Aretha just sang a song in a bloated car chase comedy (no Oscars for that kind of movie no matter how good you are.)

Aretha's performance was considered the highlight of a lousy film and her line readings are pretty great as well. Pauline Kael said that she gave the best supporting performance that year and it also revealed an inherent problem. After Aretha does the number, the audience just knows that Jake and Elwood are going to take Aretha for their all star band. When they take her husband and leave her behind, it's clear the filmmakers don't know what they're doing.,

Oh and R84, it's Beatrice Straight, not Strait. So much for that Oscar.

That was one of my favorite Pauline Kael reviews. She disliked the film, but she made a point to write about what made Aretha Franklin so special as an artist.

Aretha Franklin's performance was memorable and she even mentioned her disappointment over not being nominated for an Oscar in her awful autobiography, "From these Roots".

Based on what she wrote I got the impression that she was just extremely jealous of singer-turned-actresses, Diana Ross and Barbra Streisand, who had scored an Oscar nomination and an Oscar won respectively for their splashy debut roles.

IIRC she attributed their success to Diane being a hard worker and Streisand having good management. I think she always resented them, especially Babs, for having tasted movie stardom.