Rossapalooza: What Did You Think of Diana Ross's RCA Period?

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I'm one of the few that thought Diana's RCA years were her best years. She really experimented with all sorts of different types of music during those years: rock (Mirror Mirror), heavy metal (Fool For Your Love), synth-pop (Pieces of Ice), R&B (Muscles), pop-rock (Swept Away), and jazz (More and More).

I think three things stopped her from being successful as she should have been during that period. 1) People seemed to want her to stick with the "Motown Sound" for the rest of her life and didn't like her trying new stuff, 2) The 80's was the MTV decade where dancing and image were important, and her videos and dancing were awful (except for Swept Away & Eaten Alive) and 3) She had gotten old and new younger artists were taking over.

she also suffered the double whammy of the publication of "Call Her Miss Ross" and "Dreamgirl:My Life as a Supreme" plus the Broadways success of "Dreamgirls". Add to that the horror of "the Wiz" and "Mahogany" and you have career implosion.

And shall we not forget the launch of the Mary Wilson Pity Party?

Heavy flow for a few days. Thank god for Maxi pads.

"And shall we not forget the launch of the Mary Wilson Pity Party?"

Mary used to be my favorite Supreme. Can't stand her now. She has made the victim thing her life's work. She sabotages and then whines when she gets slapped down. When Diana left the Supremes, Mary was not the lead singer with multiple personnel changes. Her talents are limited and she augments them by kept the pity party going. It's so sad and a terrible way to be remembered.

There's a lot of Ross activity on here lately. I 'liked' most of the RCA stuff. Why Do Fools... Is a solid effort, but after that not so much. I hated the Eaten Alive album. I know I'm either alone or in a small minority here, but I loved 1987's Dirty Looks album.

Dirty Looks & Why Do Fools are my favorite Albums. Swept Away was a good album too, but 'Silk Electric' and 'Ross' were just boring. I liked the single 'Lets Go up' a lot, but I don't think it did real well. Pieces of Ice...?!? What was that about?

That's the thing with her albums...even in the 70s...they were often inconsistent.

I'm seeing her show next month. Does she still perform any of the RCA material? Mirror Mirror?

One of the greatest album covers ever

Chain Reaction is one of the most fabulous dance songs ever and should have gotten more airplay at the time. It was even the theme song for NYC Gay Pride Day at the time.

[R6] Better question: will she perform any of the dreck from her return to Motown period? "Working Overtime", "Force Behind the Power", "Take Me Higher"?

She will do "I Will Survive", "When You Tell Me That You Love Me" and "We're Always Saying Goodbye".

LOVED "Mirror, Mirror" I also liked "Take The Bitter With The Sweet"

I AGREE, R7! I remember that cover, and when I first saw it. In having not seen it in many years, when I clicked on your link, it gave me the same feelings that I had when I saw it for the first time!

Diana Ross had a very small talent but she made it go a long way for seventeen years. But by the time of "The Wiz," she was over. There's only so much you could get out of her. She wasn't Tina Turner.

OMG! this video has shaken up every gay cell in my body!!!

I think this is from the early 90s. It's one of my favorite Ross songs: If We Hold On

I remember reading once how Patti LaBaelle stated she would kill to have the catalogue that Miss Ross has.It is so deep.

Saw Ross two years ago in concert. She sounded great, and the venue was packed. One diva who knows how to get her fans respect by acting down to earth and gracious. I pre-ordered all the upcoming re-releases. I want all those damn remixes on cd.

I think during this period she had to concentrate on her legacy, so to speak. The movies weren't working, (although every time they play "Mahogany" at a bar I go to, the crowd is like in a trance), the hits were sporadic, and she was getting old.

She seemed to had made herself to be perceived as royalty. The ball gowns, the rather snobbish (for lack of a better word) concerts i.e. "The Three Tenors"; "Symphonica in Rosso" etc, and I think this is what carries her mysticism even today.

[quote]and the venue was packed.

You mean the casino was packed.

[quote]Saw Ross two years ago in concert. She sounded great, and the venue was packed. One diva who knows how to get her fans respect by acting down to earth and gracious.

"Down to earth" is the last thing I'd say to describe Diana Ross.

I saw her 4 years ago at some little theater, and she was VERY boring in concert. All she did was walk back and forth across the stage. She can't dance worth shit like Tina Turner and didn't have Tina's energy (even though Tina is 5 years older).

Also, she only performed two songs from her entire RCA career - Why Do Fools... and Mirror, Mirror. Not even Muscles (a top 10 hit) or Swept Away (a top 20 hit).

Very disappointing concert.

Loved Swept Away, Muscles, Eaten Alive and Chain Reaction. That period was a hell of a third (maybe fourth) wind for her.

Which one of today's girls will reach this level?

She's one of the few true American divas left, so show some respect, bitches

That's right, R22!!!

I present...

Miss Diana Ross...

R8 - I confess I loved Pieces of Ice when it came out, and as I'm listening to it now, I still love it!

The imagery in the lyrics is a bit silly, but the production and insistent synths create an atmosphere of frozen-out alienation and urgency that I can't resist. The guitar work is faintly reminiscent of Steely Dan!

I am not a big fan of the Ross LP, but I do think the album cover is one of her best.

[quote]I confess I loved Pieces of Ice when it came out, and as I'm listening to it now, I still love it!

Thank you! I think Pieces of Ice is a great song too and had the synth-pop sound that was popular in 1983. It's a great nighttime song, especially in the summer. Who cares if the lyrics don't make sense? Hell, the majority of the shit on the radio now has lyrics that make no sense.

I agree that the "Ross" LP was rather boring, but I did also like "Up Front" and "Love Will Make It Right".

R23, that is FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC!

You`re Tunisia!

R27 And you're the zebra lightning!

I rather like her and she still has it at 70.

"The guitar work is faintly reminiscent of Steely Dan!"

It was produced by Steely Dan producer, Gary Katz...

[quote] You mean the casino was packed.

No, dear. Miss Ross sold out the Hollywood Bowl in 2013. She is still a STAR.

[quote] But by the time of "The Wiz," she was over.

She had her biggest album AFTER the Wiz.

Why did Chain Reaction bomb? It was a No. 1 in the UK. Were the lyrics considered too "blue" for US radio?

"I'm Still Waiting" , "If We Hold On",and "Doobie Doob DO" all did nothing in the US. Radio just turned on her and didn't play her records.

"Chain Reaction" was just an OK song. There was no audience for it in the U.S. In the UK music nostaglia is a big thing, not so much here.

I do think US radio is more ageist that UK radio. Ross's chart career lasted much longer in the UK. Blondie got a number 1 in the UK with Maria but went to 82 in the US.

Islands in the stream was written for her. Barry and his brothers were to produce an entire LP for her, but there were problems....Barry doesn't speak of it.

Was "Baby It's Me" an RCA record.

I thought it was one of her strongest CDs.

Chain Reaction has a fun vibe, but it spoiled by the Bee Gee's garbage lyrics.

Ross always song-stalked Streisand (even doing a whole Funny Girl LP).

So when Streisand had a huge hit with Guilty, Ross wanted the same thing and called the Bee Gees.

Unfortunately, they gave her all the same shitty, rhymes-just-for-the-hell-of-it nonsense lyrics, but few of the melodies.

@R37, they did produce an album for her . Eaten Alive was produced by Barry Gibb.

She was offered It's Raining Men (as was Donna Summer). She should have taken it.

Baby It's Me is a Motown record. I think it came just before The Boss LP.

I'm never happy during ANY woman's period.

Love "Pieces of Ice" which didn't break the top 40--although Casey Kasem mistakenly played it during the countdown and then apologized the week after that it was a mistake by BillBoard.

Although Ross had some great songs during the latter years, all her classics are Motown.

What went wrong with the "Sweyt Away" album? Hall and Oates were producing hit after hit for trhemselves but gave D. Ross nothing.

"Eaten Alive" by Miss Jackson is pretty awful too.

[R41] Legend has it that the almost reconstituted Supremes of 1983-84 were offered "It's Raining Men'" along with "This Girl's Back in Town", both by Paul Jabarra. Did;t happen. Very nice demos by Leta Galaway, though.

Miss Ross is very lucky nobody speaks the truth, which is: For all the crappy records, and almost (but non) hit records she managed to eke out as a solo artist, she would CERTAINLY have been far better off staying WITH The Supremes until the mid 70s or beyond, and just have taken 5 months off to do the "Lady Sings the Blues" film. The Supremes were a popular group even without her. Seems a shame, and in retrospect a shitty career move for her to have left after all.

Just sayin'.

Based on this list (I've seen it a few times, assume it's accurate) Diana Ross did ok with record sales.

R[48] I bet that list includes the sales of Supremes' records.

I just looked at those new expended upcoming releases of Ross's albums, thought about buying them. I then realized that it would be over $100.00 for all of them and asked myself when was the last time i even thought of playing those albums?

I feel the same way with all of those Supremes reissues. They would have to add something really compelling for me to buy the same tracks again.

[quote] she would CERTAINLY have been far better off staying WITH The Supremes until the mid 70s or beyond,...Seems a shame, and in retrospect a shitty career move for her to have left after all.

You're kidding, right???

[R47} Diana Ross & the Supremes were a rapidly sinking ship that had been drowning since the departure of Florence Ballard. Times were changing, music was changing. The glossy drag queenish group was passe.

Both they and Ross needed to get away from each other and try to reboot. It was the best thing for them.

Ross struggled to find a solo sound. Motown did not know what to do with her until Ashford and Simpson took a chance on "Ain't No Mountain High Enough".

Ironically, I don; think that there were any new songs written for that album, just a new aproach.

Leaving the Supremes was the best thing Ross ever did.

Her 80s stuff was SHITEOUS.

So out of her post Supremes material, what is her best vocal performance? Some of her recordings are not aging well.

She sounds gorgeous on "Missing You". Her performance on "Love Hangover" and "The Boss" are pretty stellar.

I like "I Thought It Took A Little Time". It's a forgotten classic.

My favorite.

[r57] Nice performance except for the nauseating male fan fawning and singing. Yech.

At Motown she experimented with Country songs but at RCA none of her recordings were in that direction. She experimented with far more many styles at RCA than Motown.

I think that people forget that Whitney Houston's big break came when she borrowed Michael Masser from Diana Ross and never gave him back. Clive Davis was a sharp cookie, molding young Whitney after Diana.

You're right R59. Also, don't forget the "power" that Ross holds. I remember Whitney doing an interview and she was asked something about Diana Ross. Well, she said that Ross was not an idol of hers ...and that's understandable given her mom Cissy, Auntie Dionne, and godmother Aretha. Well... that answer certainly changed over the years because in subsequent interviews she mentioned her admiration of Diana Ross, and even had a tribute to Ross set in her concert performances.

Michael Masser's songs for Whitney all became instant classics: "All at Once", "Saving All My Love for You", "Greatest Love of All", "Didn't We Almost Have it All".

Aretha stated that she envied the material given Ross and recorded "It's My turn".

Patti LaBalle stated in an interview that she would kill to have as deep a catalogue as Diana Ross.

Without Diana Ross and "touch Me in the Morning" there might not have been a Michael Masser, songwriter.

[quote]Her 80s stuff was SHITEOUS.

But, she has a WHOLE lot that she can pull from it. Again, I'll admit that I'm a fan, but I can look at Ross's career objectively. She has a career that very few can claim. I'm not a Madonna fan, (I like many of her songs), but I have to giver her proper respect to the achievements that she has made, and the longevity of her career.

Look... Ross has yet to subject herself to making infomercials like Cher.

Ross, has yet to keep herself relevant by doing fake farewell tours a la Cher, Barbra Streisand, Gladys Knight (They should all be sued for false advertising)

Ross, has not been forced into doing reality TV shows in order to keep her name/face in the public eye a la Gladys Knight, Patti LaBelle etc.

Ross, is not just a star, but a superstar who is known worldwide.

Let's get a sense of some booking fees:

Dionne Warwick Minimum Fee - U.S. Dates $30,000-$75,000 Minimum Fee - Intl. Dates $75,000-$150,000

Patti Labelle Minimum Fee - U.S. Dates $75,000-$150,000 Minimum Fee - Intl. Dates $150,000-$500,000 (she actually has intl fees?)

Gladys Knight Minimum Fee - U.S. Dates $75,000-$150,000 Minimum Fee - Intl. Dates $150,000-$500,000

Aretha Franklin Minimum Fee - U.S. Dates $150,000-$500,000 Minimum Fee - Intl. Dates $500,000-$1,000,000

Diana Ross Minimum Fee - U.S. Dates $150,000-$500,000 Minimum Fee - Intl. Dates $500,000-$1,000,000

Ross can still pull 'em in, and she's getting paid!

OH! Mary Wilson: Minimum Fee - U.S. Dates $7,500-$30,000 Minimum Fee - Intl. Dates $30,000-$75,000

[R62] This probably means that you can hire any of the other Former Supremes for meals and tips at a bowling alley.

I wouldn't trust your sources. Dionne Warwick had a much bigger career than Patti LaBelle. Patti LaBelle has a loyal but never mainstream fanbase. Even with her vocal decline, Warwick would command more money than LaBelle. The Bacharach songbook and nostalgia is probably the main reason. Patti can't compete with that.

That's why Diana can still reel 'em in - the list of hits puts her in a special category.

@R64, Dionne, (bless her heart), has been reduced to being the opening act for other entertainers. Her style, and music, just has a different audience which are pretty much dying out. Frankly, I'm surprised that LaBelle's is so high! Her audience is primarily the gays, and Black folk. Shocking that she has international rates. Who really knows her outside of the USA?

What would sustain a Patti LaBelle show for one hour? Her catalogue is very thin and she can't draw "Somehwhere Over the Rainbow" out for tenty minutes.

"Lady Marmalade"

"On My Own"

"New Attitude"

""Stir it Up"

"Rainbow"

What else?

@R64; It's rather sad that a performer of Dionne's caliber can't command more money. Click the link, and scroll down, and you'll see her in that price point range.

Also, I'm surprised Patti LaBelle can get that much money (good for her though), because as R66 pointed out, her catalogue is very thin.

[R67] There are a lot of anomalies on that list. People pay to see Taylor Hicks? Some of the other names i did not even recognize.

I think R62 may be confusing asking price with actualy price.

Besides, when the fuck did anyone last hear of a "Diana Ross concert"?

Bitch lost her voice years ago. I remember seeing her on a Divas Live special well over a decade ago and I was embarrassed for her.

She's on tour now.

[quote]Besides, when the fuck did anyone last hear of a "Diana Ross concert"?

Honey, please...

[quote]I remember seeing her on a Divas Live special well over a decade ago and I was embarrassed for her.

Highest rated Diva show in MTV history.

Click the link to read, and then weep;

Just when you thought the bosses at the Glastonbury Festival had outdone themselves by managing to bag Dolly Parton for this year’s festival, it’s emerged that they’re in talks to get another diva on board for 2015, in the form of Diana Ross....

I just checked for San Jose, Row A is available for $151.85 each.

Who would pay that to see a has-been like Diana Ross?

Some recent reviews:

Review: Diana Ross at the Chicago Theatre April 30, 2014--There were all the costume changes you would expect, nearly, if not all, the hits you could want, some fine singing and a terrific band in Diana Ross' concert at the Chicago Theatre Tuesday, the first show of a two-night stand. What ultimately was most noteworthy, though, was the celebratory, communal spirit of the evening...The audience she drew was the most powerful statement of all, as the show brought together gay and straight, black and white, old and, well, middle aged. It was a reminder that music at times can break down boundaries between people, but begged the question of which acts can achieve similarly widespread appeal in today's fragmented music marketplace.

Concert Review: Diana Ross shows A.C. she still has star power--The voice. The “diva-tude.” That over-the-top puff of hair. With Diana Ross, what you see is what you get. On Friday night, what the fans got was a flawless performance from a diva who could teach some other artists how it’s really done.

Diana Ross Served Extravagant Costume and Perfect Voice at the Mann Center Last Night BY R. ERIC THOMAS | JUNE 26, 2014 AT 11:14 AM--Is there a more exhilarating sound to a concert-goer’s ears than Diana Ross wailing the opening notes to her signature hit “I’m Coming Out” from somewhere far off-stage? The 1980 hit and unofficial gay anthem has been a staple at Ross’s concerts since its debut, most frequently serving as her opener as she races through the audience, futzing with her always-gargantuan wrap, and singing. It’s a gambit that perfectly encapsulates the legendary performer’s appeal—it is both extravagant and intimate, the gesture of a true diva who still wants to be close to her fans...And she’s still got it! The 70-year-old’s voice was as clear and pure as on her recordings, even though she had to battle a muffled sound system at The Mann. In just over an hour, she powered through 20 of her greatest hits and five extravagant costumes without appearing to break a sweat.

That old broad still has it!

[quote]Perfect Voice

In other words, she is lip-syncing.

That's cheap, R73! look at what others are willing to pay.

R73 That's what I'd like to know.

I was stupid enough to pay $100 to see her back in 2010 because I'd never seen her before, and the show was a total snoozefest. All she did was walk back and forth across the stage and she didn't sing much upbeat stuff; way too many sappy ballads.

She's got nothing on Tina Turner who I saw the year before that and REALLY knew how to put on an energetic show.

The few times I have heard ger sing "You Keep Me Hangin On" recently she has taken liberties with the melody as though she is bored singing the song. it sounds awful.

That's "heard her sing" not "heard ger sing". Don't know who "ger his" but suspect he is a gremlin that comes out when folks don't where their glasses.

That list is a joke. Ross never performs for less than $250K a night.....her minimum has been the same since the 80s. Usually, she gets $500-750k a night. She's worth over $100 million and could retire tomorrow if she wanted to. She doesn't need to keep touring to pay the bills.

And Mary is lucky to get $5,000 per gig. Very rarely does she make more than $20k a week and that's if she has a good booking on a cruise line. Not a bad living and Mary isn't broke, but still.

[R79] don't "wear" their glasses. Pot meet kettle.

In concert does Ms. Ross perform any of these RCA tunes other than "Why Do Fools Fall in Love", "Mirror, Mirror" and "chain Reaction"?

Does she still sings "Muscles", "Swept Away", "Let's Go Up" or any of the others?

I've only heard "Why Do Fools Fall In Love". Haven't heard any of the others.

Her not-quite-a-frog-face-in-a-bad-wig period?

Her done-with-the-brothers-and-looking-for-a-blonde-with-an-accent-and-bucks period?

Her okay-Michael-I'll-have-my-girl-show-you-makeup-tips-if-you-write-me-a-few period?

Loved it. Such a talent. And only in her mid-40s at the time. Thirty years ago.

Expecially loved "Missing You." People think it was about Marvin. I know it was about her career.

I'll always love Diane. Because she never worked with me. Oh, there was my triumph at the AMA when she had to eat dirt with me singing at the climax. But that wasn't work, baby. That was sweet pleasure. And her asking, "Is Madonna here? You wanna come up and sing?" made me glad I had my Double Depends on. I already had super glued that bitch's ass to the seat.

Yes, baby. A triumph for me. Even if I had coke-eye on the left side. And except how dear Diane was pinching my back so hard while I was singing that I ended up with a hematoma. You can see my good eye tear up as she does it.

Worth it.

Dionne honey, how much did the sale of that fur get you to help you cover your IRS bill?

I don't remember that AMA performance. I asked Marilyn McCoo and she doesn't remember it either. Why weren't we invited onstage to sing the grand finale with the other stars?

Post-show gum-scraper cleaning girls were not considered stars in such a venue, Freda, dear, even if you called it a gig.

Plus by that time in the 1980s if anyone said "Freda" it was followed by "Slaves," not "Payne," baby. You know that. You're just so old you forgot. That's okay. If no one remembers you, why should you remember them?

And, Diane at R85, do NOT think that I do not have my suspicions about Arne falling off that mountain a decade ago in South Africa. How much insurance did you keep on your ex, baby? The weave cleaning must be getting expensive. Some people do take them out, but I suppose it offers you a cheap facelift, too. All the tugging up. Have people asked if those two new beauty marks on your cheeks are actually your nipples? Hm?

I do not do fur now, anyways. 'Cept what I can grab on my man's back to keep him from bouncing off. Do you have any men left in your life, Diane, who aren't paid to work on that hammer toe of yours?

It is always amusing that some posters assume that these smart literate women speak as though they are extras from a 70's blaxploitation movie or contestants on "RuPaul's Drag Race". Not even close.

Yes, R88. It is offensive, isn't it?

And this smart literate (sic) woman would appreciate your placing your little full stop within your quotation mark, as we do here in the USA. Because if you are British or Canadian and therefore are in the habit of adopting their punctuation usage, you really need to keep your mouth shut about how American divas talk, according to you.

Thank you, baby. Now fuck off.

[R89] More sounds coming from the dumpster behind Popeye's.

And yet you're still illiterate, baby. Go back to school. I'm done educating your useless ass.

Well, I'm sure there's someone who could find a use for it. Easy to find, anyway.

And you know all about Popeye's, I see. To me he's just a may-un.

You cunt.

Oh, Lordy. I didn't realize this was your gig and you are the Hall Monitor of the thing. Ex-cuse me. I certainly never meant to trip by a nuthouse here, with a crazy lady sneering through the windows.

All that yellow! The threads pissy with your commentary.

Back to La Jolla.

R66, Patti had many R&B hits including "If Only You Knew," "Love, Need and Want You," "Somebody Loves You Baby,""If You Asked Me To" (later covered by Celine Dion), .etc. So she has the material to stretch out a concert considering that those songs are well known to R&B/Soul listeners.

Ross has really had many wonderful performances.

What the fuck are you talking about R44? You clearly pulled tbat post right out of your ass. "Pieces Of Ice" went to #31 on Billboard Hot 100.

Miss Warwick, you go on ahead and snatch Diane's weave right off her head.

We need to apologize to the possums who died to make it.

Saw her in Vegas Friday night. Great show...only song from the RCA years was "Fools."

I'm one of the few people that loved her RCA years and couldn't care less about her cheesy Motown shit.

She doesn't look as fat as she has been looking on stage from this recent photo.

Did you know there is a "Diana Ross Playground" in Central Park?

That is an attractive family in R99

[quote]And this smart literate (sic) woman would appreciate your placing your little full stop within your quotation mark

Full stop? If you're going to impersonate an American, at least get the obvious details right.

That tall guy at r99 is not her toy boy, is he?

R101 Are you kidding? That family is NOT attractive at all. They all have bug eyes.

Ashley and Evan and the other son were at the show in Vegas Friday night.

One more week until the whole RCA Ross catalogue is released.

Only a true diva gets away with this...

Diva Diana Ross snatches fan's phone during performance

Wonder what the Las Vegas gig will be like?

I wondered why in 1984 she chose to sing a new song that still used the word 'gay' in the happy, carefree sense. By that point gay had already clearly established itself as meaning homosexual.

Actually, I think she had a not too bad time considering her age.