How will Madonna be remembered?

As the bitch who stole the movie of [italic]Evita[/italic] from me!

For her weird accent in SWEPT AWAY

And someone who suffered terribly from the heat.

Just give me a FFFFFFFFFAN!

She's a product of her time ONLY. She will be forgotten in the future.

and I love her.

She won't be. She's already fading out. She is not particularly talented and there is nothing especially distinctive about her body of work so there is no reason why it will be remembered. She's an aging celebrity now, no longer a superstar. Once she is no longer around to remind people she's still alive, they won't.

Oh, how I LONG for the day when someone asks, "Who's Madonna?"

As someone who would not act her age or species.

The wretch, concentred all in self,

Living, shall forfeit fair renown,

And, doubly dying, shall go down

To the vile dust from whence she sprung,

Unwept, unhonored, and unsung.

She set women back 10 years.

As the mother of Jesus, you heathen.

"As the mother of Jesus, you heathen"

She only dated the hell out of him.

At one time I thought Madonna would go on to be sort of a consistently revered icon. Sure, people would dismiss or criticize any number of portions of her career - some people would say she couldn't act, some would dismiss her pop music and actual musical abilities, etc.

But, I thought, people would still recognize how HUGE she was in her day, the buzz she at one time generated, the fashion and pop culture trends she helped instigate.

But, I'm not getting that. Or, maybe I'm just missing it. She hasn't really morphed into beloved elder statesman.

Maybe it's our 24/7 social media, internet society and there's so much to distract people from focusing on someone like Madonna - has she been forgotten to a large extent?

Maybe it's that she takes herself so fucking seriously and really isn't a loveable older star. God, that would go a long way, if she could just laugh at herself and realize she's way past her prime.

she will be remembered as an overhyped, talentless cold hearted bitch, with an auto tuned voice and cannot act, who screwed her way to the top. She stole from other peoples' acts (Bette Midler) and songs (claiming to be a songwriter)) and then had the balls to complain about Lady Gaga. Ask her homeless brother. She is so over.

She'll be cited in graduate dissertations, whereas Shelley Fabares probably won't.

That's it.

She'll be remembered as Mae West Jr.

R8,

I loved Groundhog Day, too!

It's a sad statement on the world if she isn't remembered. And not just for her music. A true icon.

I want to think she will have her spot as a Marilyn/James Dean/Brando kind of pop star, used in commercials and the like for decades to come. At least in regards to being the biggest star of the 80s and 90s.

Only she, Cher and Streisand have any hope of eternal fame, I guess. Who else?

R17 Lea Michele

Probably as an inexpensive Halloween costume.

Kinda love you r19.

A sweet, lovely Catholic girl.

I think the world will recall the woman who sold more music than any other woman in the entire planet called Earth.

Yes. I think she'll be remembered and revered.

I think it'll actually be for her yet to happen, late career, sex change.

R23 you may be right

Since she's not an actual musician and she can't sing, she'll be known more for her silly controversies which surrounded each of her albums and the subsequent hype.

A real musician doesn't need artifice to be more important than the actual music. That's why she is now grasping to remain famous, her music cannot hold up on it's own. I was never a fan.

I enjoyed most of the other pop and rock music of that era, Madonna, she left me cold. I was never into the hard sell and hype when it came to enjoying music, she was nothing but way too much hype. She's also humorless and stupid. Some bands didn't need excellent singers, the B-52s for example, but they were original, clever and fun.

Basically, everything about Madonna is off putting.

R25, Australian cultural critic Clive James once said of Madonna:

'She sang better than she danced and she danced better than she looked and she looked better than she could act - and she could only just sing.'

R26, sounds as if he were describing Judy or Liza.

See how absurd his comment was now?

She'll be remembered as a pop culture figure "the material girl," not really for her music.

She won't be remembered. I'm a child of the 90s and will readily admit that she helped define the 80s and 90s. But now I barely remember why she's even famous.

I suspect the music from her first ten years will be remembered. Holiday, Borderline, Like A Prayer, Cherish, Papa Don't Preach, Open Your Heart, Live to Tell, and Take A Bow still get a lot of play on nostalgia radio. She will be remembered, but many won't know exactly why.

She'll be remembered because there really isn't anyone else to be remembered. Go hum me a few bars of a Mariah, Avril or Sade hit song for me.

[quote]Probably as an inexpensive Halloween costume.

Sold with one of those tiny desk fans.

Who?

Never been a big fan nor a big hater but I'm surprised that so few have talked about songs that will "live on." With all the songs she's produced, nothing or very little? Really.

Holiday has been playing in heavy rotation for over 30 years now.

R34, ignore them. They've been holding their collective breaths for the past 8 years waiting for Janet's next CD to drop. It makes them a little light-headed.

Lets face it: except for her hardcore fans, most people only remember or think about the music from the first ten years of her career.

R37, you should capitalize the first word used after a colon.

I hate her. But she was the second biggest pop star of the late 20th century behind Michael Jackson, in a category with Elvis and the Beatles. When she goes, it will be about her pioneering of the fame era.

Hopefully, she'll pull out of this ridiculous parody phase she's been descending into for about 20 years.

A pop singer who can't sing who somehow made it big by propagating sideshow controversies to sell her very mediocre music.

She'll be remembered for having a sizzling hot start to her career. She ran a tight ship, made music that was instant cash, and she projected an image designed to shock and attract us.

[quote]Lets face it: except for her hardcore fans, most people only remember or think about the music from the first ten years of her career.

But, wouldn't this be true of any number of musical acts, revered or not. There's always the earlier stuff (for some just the first 5 years)that casual fans, the general public are familiar with. The period when the artist is at their peak popularity and when their songs/albums are hits.

Only the hardcore fans are familiar with the stuff that comes after. That's pretty universal.

Nobody gave a damn about Michael Jackson before he dies,he was just a sick pedophile until 2009.After he died,man became a God.Same thing will happen with Madonna.When Janet die,datalounge will be the only place where people still remember her.Unfortunately,she never have any impact in music industry.

Madonna will be remembered as a Pop icon of the 80's and 90's. That's it. Once she croaks, all the old queens who grew up with her music will go into a state of mourning.

She's too mediocre for icon status.

Musically only 'Vogue' stands the test of time, but what a fabulous fucking tune!

I totally agree with R17 and R21.

I too was gonna make the MJ comparison. By June 2009, MJ had become a joke and a pedo in many people's eyes. He hadn't been relevant in music since the early 90s. He was mostly in the news for his bizarre lifestyle and excessive spending, not to mention the molestation accusations and trials. Then he died and suddenly he was huge again, his albums and singles topping the charts within weeks.

A similar thing happened to Elvis. By the mid-70s he had been a washout, his heyday long behind him. When he died, People magazine didn't even put him on the cover. But shortly after death, his legend grew. Granted, he had already been iconic for his contributions to music in the 1950s, but at the time of his death only nostalgic, middleagers were his fanbase.

I think the same thing will happen with Madonna. Sure, she's become a parody of herself, but she still fills up stadiums and has best-selling tours -- something neither MJ nor Elvis were able to do at the end of their lives. Though she's a passable singer, she did have star quality, and in the '80s was the Yin to Michal's Yang. Though MJ was bigger, both were worldwide superstars and seen as the King and Queen of Pop. No one else came close.

So when Madonna dies, I predict she till will be to near-goddess status. It wasn't like she was a one-hit wonder or had a couple hits. She was huge, and it's a testament to her popularity that she's still able to sell out tours.

As a big fat stupid talentless whore who was a lousy lay.

The whole dying argument really hinges on when she dies. The examples of MJ and Elvis both died relatively young(ish) and suddenly. The shock of a death can really cement someone's posthumous stardom.

So, if Madonna gets hit by a bus tomorrow, the same thing would probably happen to her. If she dies of cancer when she's in her 90's, it's probably not going to make a difference.

Who?

Most young-uns today (under 25) don't really care about the past - just the now.

Madonna 1.0 (up until Ray of Light) was a viable pop star, her straying into acting was tolerated even when awful.

Madonna 2.0 (the over 40 years) have been ridiculous. She must accept she is no longer relevant. Stop the striving (esp on Social Media) - it's beginning to morph into desperation.

major pop stars should always fade out before the big decline - otherwise they become a joke.

I'm looking at you Mariah ..

R50, do you exclude or include Ray of Light from the viable Madge years?

Because I think it was some of her best work.

I agree.

She is so fucking irrelevant now it is a joke. I mean top earning celeb last year. Sell-out, record breaking concerts???

So irrelevant.

[quote]I think the world will recall the woman who sold more music than any other woman in the entire planet called Earth

When I see a post about any performer making millions on their music or movies as the reason why they are so great, a David Bowie quote comes to mind. I'll have to paraphrase because I don't remember the exact quote, "The public buying a lot of your records is never a barometer that your music is good or that you possess great talent."

That quote always stuck in my mind. Face it, most of the general public have very pedestrian tastes in music, films and books, that explains how someone with so little talent, as Madonna, got to become so famous. People are like sheep.

Lots of people also seem to enjoy a good stage show, the MTV era heralded in that 'style over substance' was important to pop music. Before MTV, most people were simply interested in the music, which stood on it's own. When I was a kid, my parents put LPs records on, there were no visuals. You had only the music to enjoy.

Of course, every era had pop idols with an image, from Sinatra to Little Richard to Elvis to The Beatles and beyond, but their music was always more important than their images.

R50 here - included: Ray of Light IMHO was the last good work from her.

She'll be remembered as a true global pop superstar, which she was.

It's kind of embarrassing to see her these days... aging sucks regardless, but some stars do it more gracefully than others. But in Madonna's peak years as a pop star, she really was phenomenally good at leveraging what limited talents she had. She knew how to vamp just perfectly in her early MTV clips, squeezing extra emotion or sass out of a song. And she put on amazing shows in those days; even if her voice was half-shot which it often was, you still got an all-out blast of live stage entertainment.

I also think part of her stardom was that, in the early years (1984-1989), she came across as accessible to her female fans in the sense of mimicry. I mean, it was damn near impossible to sing along with a Whitney song, note for note. But it was absolutely no sweat to sing along with Madonna, and millions of girls did, and half of 'em sang no worse than she did!

Here is a tribute to Madonna from a couple of french kids.

The witch that came (the withered hag)

To wash the steps with pail and rag

Was once the beauty Abishag,

The picture pride of Hollywood.

Too many fall from great and good

For you to doubt the likelihood.

Come on, guys, she's cute with her kids and she isn't in our face all the time. I think she's handling herself well under the circumstances. Just needs one more kick ass "album" to make the haters shut up.

She was relentless in her pursuit of innovative, artistic, cutting edge producers. That's the only reason her music was successful.

Her deliberately chosen men, with the one goal of benefiting her career and personal status (Sean, Guy).

Amongst the people she stole from, her stealing Alison Goldfrapp's look/style for her own was the most blatant example of her thievery. (A top hat adorned with an ostrich feather; a cane; velvet jacket; leotard, etc., etc.)

Check it out.

I agree with R45. She has a whole 1 or 2 songs that have stood the test of time. In a few years she'll be as relevant as Marie Osmond ad Anne Murray.

R12 and R13 are 100% spot-on.

As someone who remembers every moment of her rise (I am 49) - I am astonished her once legendary stardom is now almost-forgotten.

The crappy plastic surgery and the endless boytoy parade have marginalized her and have made her look foolish, at best.

Meanwhile Cyndi Lauper, who she once eclipsed, has a big hit on Broadway which will kept her name circulating creatively for a new generation.

I think the realization that her once seemingly unbeatable confidence was concealing deep personal neurosis, coupled with the abandonment of her sly, upstart humor for strained control freakery led to her decline.

Also, many of her appearances and performances in YouTube retrospection appear crude and gross, harbingers for the soulless and degraded Interscope whores we are faced with today. These skanks are Madonna's "daughters", and it is not pretty.

[quote]As someone who remembers every moment of her rise (I am 49) - I am astonished her once legendary stardom is now almost-forgotten.

Like Diana Ross, she let her ego and cunty attitude ruin her career. You may get away with that shit in your 20's and 30's, but that shit isn't cute when you're old.

Plus Cyndi Lauper is only an Oscar away from EGOT- ing.

I'm a fourth of the way to an EGOT, bitches.

Cyndi Lauper has far more talent than Madonna ever did. Unfortunately Cyndi wasn't a complete narcissist so Madonna stole her crown as the Queen of 80's Pop. Madonna stole A LOT from Cyndi when she hit the scene.

a big diseased vagina

That whole "English Rose" trip did her in.

Yes R68, that whole faux-English period was ridiculous. And now she speaks with that awful accent.

50 years from now, someone will decide to restore and recut the "Evita" film. It will be a huge hit and she'll be known as that actress who played Evita in the movie.

"I think the world will recall the woman who sold more music than any other woman in the entire planet called Earth"

And right there is reason #1 for her irrelevance now and forever. The only thing anybody under 30 gives a shit about in regard to sales is video games and iphones. The fact that she sold so much "physical product" is now an amusing quaint fact, along the lines of "Alexander's Ragtime Band SOLD MORE SHEET MUSIC THAN ANY OTHER SONG IN 1913!!!"

Her bubblegum electro dance-pop sounds so horribly dated. She does not have a legacy of unarguably great music to afford her the status of a significant musical artist. She was an 80s and 90s pop / celebrity icon, that's all.

She is also very, very unlikeable and presumably narcissistically personality disordered. Elvis or Jackson were no picnic either for those who knew them, but they were really loved as people by their fans. Madonna is so cold and flinty, it's hard to believe her fans feel any affection for her as a woman.

Also, Elvis and Jackson both died before old age so that probably saved us from years of increasing grotesque-ry. With Madonna, we are probably set for another 25 years of her acting out age-inappropriately and by the time she dies she will have been boring and embarrassing people for 40 years.

Yeah but the under 30 crowd still knows who she is. I bet fifteen minutes don't go by without an old Madonna song playing somewhere on some radio station, in a store, etc.

I predict she will be immortalized like the Mae West of her time. Perhaps not accurately (the old 80s version with crucifixes, no doubt) but still immortalized.

And, in a true "Mary!" moment, she will always have a place in my heart for creating two songs that got me through two horrible breakups many years apart ("Live to Tell" and "Frozen").

[quote]I bet fifteen minutes don't go by without an old Madonna song playing somewhere on some radio station, in a store, etc.

Unless the d.j. announces her name, how is anyone to know it's her song that's playing?

[quote]I bet fifteen minutes don't go by without an old Madonna song playing somewhere on some radio station, in a store, etc.

I haven't heard one of her songs (old or new) in a store in years, let alone on radio stations. Even on those radio stations dedicated to 70's, 80's, and 90's music that they play in waiting rooms I never hear her songs.

Those cones!

As a performer who made a song called "Four Minutes" that actually went to 4:04. Slipshod.

It might be all bad stuff but she gets a lot of action on Datalounge.

[quote]I'm a fourth of the way to an EGOT, bitches.

Big deal. So am I.

[quote]Cyndi Lauper has far more talent than Madonna ever did. Unfortunately Cyndi wasn't a complete narcissist so Madonna stole her crown as the Queen of 80's Pop. Madonna stole A LOT from Cyndi when she hit the scene.

Cyndi was more talented vocally, but was too eccentric to last as an A-list pop star. Madonna didn't "steal" any stardom from her. Cyndi didn't really work the music-video medium as well as Madonna and others did. By the time Cyndi's second record came out in the fall of '86, it wasn't just Madonna, but also Whitney Houston and Tina Turner and Janet Jackson who were the big female pop stars of the time. Whitney and Janet in particular were the ones on the rise.

And Cyndi didn't have hits anymore. Her material just wasn't good enough. Say what you will about Madonna but she's always had catchy songs.

[quote]Say what you will about Madonna but she's always had catchy songs.

She hasn't had a "catchy" song since the 90's. Her music for the last 15 years is cold, emotionless, generic electronic shit.

Umm, by her coffee table book?

R82, just because you can't enjoy electronic music doesn't mean others can't. She's had catchy songs all the time. Confessions on a Dance Floor was possibly her best album. Girl Gone Wild was one of my favorite songs in 2012, and I'm not even really a Madonna fan. I just like some of her songs.

Probably by various newer celebs famous for leaked analingus porn videos doing Sinatra and Nat Cole-style "duets" (overdubs over old recordings) of execrable remixes of M's past hits.

Agree with R12. Her inability to laugh at herself, desperately seeking over-exposure with boring Truth or Dare doco and "shocking" Sex book, soulless acting in Ritchie stinker, Swept Away, and laughingly becoming faux-British and faux-Jewish overnight. She's had every opportunity to address her sad, arrested development but seems forever stuck at age 14. Fully expect stingy, material girl to keep raking in the $$$ touring until wheeled onstage amidst blinding pyrotechnics, per R23, as Man-donna.

1. as someone who has a homeless brother

for someone who is so wealthy she can financially support him

2. adopting token black "orphans"

being super hairy that hairy crotch made my eyeballs burn

3. As a sad old whore.

4. Someone who had to pay people to hang around her because she was such a miserable, mean cunt.

"Someone who had to pay people to hang around her because she was such a miserable, mean cunt."

Now you're describing half of Hollywood, with their assistants.

Some people diss MDNA CD, but I listen to it all the time. It is much, much better than it is given credit for.

Even the bitchiest divas balance the bitter and the sweet. Madge has such a flinty image it overwhelms everything else. Remembered but not beloved.

Cher is a classic illustration of how an aging pop icon can stay beloved if she retains a sense of humor and genuine gratitude for her fans about the whole thing.

Madonna is like the anti-Cher in those respects.

She didn't achieve what she really wanted, which was to be a big movie star.

[quote]Cher is a classic illustration of how an aging pop icon can stay beloved if she retains a sense of humor and genuine gratitude for her fans about the whole thing

You're right. Vadge takes herself so seriously and can't even laugh at herself like other celebs.

[quote]She didn't achieve what she really wanted, which was to be a big movie star.

That's one more Cher has over her - an Oscar and several hit movies.

Friend of mine just saw Cher and Cyndi in concert. Cyndi opened for Cher and apparently they have been friends for many years. He said both were great in concert.

Cyndi may not have had the "catchy" tunes Madge has had but her career has never stopped. Cyndi even has an Emmy. So while Madge may have been more visible Cyndi has continued to mine her talent in any way she can.

It ain't over yet. Write her off as a potential movie star and then watch the comeback. She was already far better in "Dangerous Game" than folks admit.

Ditto, MDNA hardly a bust of a CD.

Odd thing is Lauper has as much of a bitch reputation as Madonna -- once told Spielberg he wasn't very creative, fights with everyone, etc. I love her but things like "Celebrity Apprentice" don't help her.

Finally, Madonna should and hopefully WILL be remembered as a gay icon who was one of the first on the scene fighting AIDS. Danceathons, paying for her friend's health care, PSAs, all of it. While Lauper is good now, back then she was frollicking with the WWE or whatever while Madonna showed up.

Yeah, R96, I've always thought Cyndi's great, although I never really understood her WWF stuff. I remember how disappointed I was in her third album A Night to Remember. After that I didn't even bother to buy anything from her anymore.

Cyndi also has another thing Vadge has never had - a true love relationship that's actually lasted. Cyndi's been married for 23 years and counting.

Vadge goes through men like toilet paper.

Unfortunately the media will canonize her "work" and falsely claim that everything in pop came from her. Was she a big deal? yes. Was she quite popular? yes. That's where the praise should end though.

She's an untalented, unoriginal, thieving, culture appropriating gimmick queen who used attention whoring to sell her music. She only ever had songs about controversial topics because it would create a buzz.

vomit, R99, you're projecting. They could be in separate apartments for all we know. And I detest that dated 50s notion that all her accomplishments pale because she didn't have a long (miserable) relationship.

Go back in the kitchen and put on your apron, frau.

R101 Honey, I'm stating FACTS. It's your precious Vadge that posts that sappy-ass desperate hashtag "livingforlove" over and over and OVER again on Instagram. Poor thing is desperate.

Having witnessed both the careers of Cyndi Lauper and Madonna, I cannot believe I them being mentioned in the same sentence.

Cyndi Lauper was an absolute blip in musical history.

Did Cindy get her Emmy from World Wrestling Federation work?

A pushy, loud, hairy little broad from Detroit with thunder thighs and massive cankles who bulldozed her way into the public eye through raw ambition untempered by talent.

Without an original thought in her head or a single shred of music or dance ability, she stole whatever she had to steal, slept with the necessary stepping stones, and ended up a rich old freak just like Paul Theroux's repulsive contessa in "The Stranger at the Palazzo d'Oro."

She will be remembered as someone who would do anything to get attention, who by sheer drive and force of will made herself into a star and sex symbol without having any great talent or looks. She will also be remembered as a sad character, a woman who could not accept the fact that she's no longer young, a woman in her fifties (and no doubt beyond) who allows herself to be photographed with her tits and ass hanging out. She will also be remembered as a chicken hawk who always has a decades younger young dipshit as her "boytoy."

She will be remembered as simply unequalled by any female entertainer in the history of the world.

She has the album and CD sales, the gloss, gold and glitter to prove it.

Her career has been, and still is, a remarkable arc of extraordinary wavelength and soaring amplitude beneath which her lesser competitors' careers sputtered into ignominy like wet firecrackers.

She showed to the world, over a career longer than most of the lives of those posting here, quite simply how it is done.

She'll be remembered as a triple threat: Couldn't sing, couldn't act, and couldn't dance.

It's wearying to read old worn-out borscht belt lines like R108. R108, please develop some talent for the written comedic word.

Seriously, R107? Because she doesn't even make the top 100 greatest vocalists of all time list, according to Rolling Stone.

Vadge stans are hilariously delusional about their idol's talent, beauty and place in history.

Liz Rosenberg chiming in at R107.

r110, no one claims she is Maria Callas. R11, where is the delusion in stating that Madonna has had over a 30 year career and has sold more music than any other female artist in the world.

Perhaps your hate of Madonna has made you delusional, Jabba.

Cyndi won her Emmy for guest appearance on the comedy show Mad About You. She had a recurring part on it for a season or so.

r98 I liked some of the songs on Night To Remember. The song Drove All Night was recorded by Celine and was a moderate hit for her. There were some really silly songs on it but I loved

Drove All Night

Heading West

Unconditional Love

Don't Want To Be Your Friend

I also like the album Hat Full Of Stars. Not any huge hit quality songs but the album is nice to put on and listen to. I love the song Just Like Christmas With You. That was the last album by her I bought though. Always loved her. Still do but I got pulled into Hip Hop and wasn't checking for artists like her anymore.

R112, L. R. the poet?? I don't get it.

Seriously, some of you are trying too damn hard to deny the obvious: she was and is one of the greatest stars who ever lived.

I also hope she will indeed be remembered as the hairy thunder thighed untalented nothing from Detroit -- who would not be denied until she ruled the world., The ultimate American dream. Like Cher, who also isn't necessarily the best at all these things but never gave up. no matter the odds, no matter how many times she was on the "Out" list.

There are far FAR worse role models for girls out there, certainly in terms of business.

"She will be remembered as simply unequalled by any female entertainer in the history of the world.'

Either you're trolling or a retard. Because that statement could only be made by a troll or a retard.

[quote]Madonna has had over a 30 year career and has sold more music than any other female artist in the world.

You seem to forget that records are broken all the time. Diana Ross once held this record too. Rihanna, Katy Perry, and Beyoncé will break Vadge's record within the next few years at the rate they're going.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

Hasn't she been around for 50 years already? Or does it just feel like it?

She will be remembered as a creative entertainment who had her finger on the pulse of American pop for decades. She evolved not only to follow trends but to create them. She is a marketing genius and has successfully generated interest in her product by being provocative. Most importantly, she will be remembered as an independent spirit who controlled her own destiny. She has always been in charge. Ask anyone who has ever worked with her. There is no Svengali behind her.

R118, that is unlikely since the previous model for musical success has been irretrievably broken with the advent of download-for-free music.

It certainly is a game changer. No longer can we calculate the popularity of an artist based on CD "sales".

Perhaps, may I suggest, a very real and calculable alternative to the measure of the success and popularity of any currently performing artist: The $$$ success of their tours. Hard core cash pulled out of the wallets of those who examine from a wide field of performing artists and choose who they wish to see perform.

And that award would go to....OMG! My bad! That award would ALSO go to Madonna!

as Susan

as the person who changed the game her own way, her songs, papa don't preach, rain(with it's beautifully dark video), ray of light holiday, material girl, vogue, etc have made her an icon.

And also what is remarkable about Madonna, which has been stated elsewhere before, is that in her 30+ years of career you never saw her falling down shitfaced drunk. Never became alcoholic or took drugs. Never attempted suicide or checked into rehab.

Call her vampy, provocative, whatever---she certainly has control over her life. And she's given birth to two beautiful and talented kids and adopted two others.

Granted, she has few good films to her credit---is that a crime?

And she is still producing music. MDNA was a lot better than people said it was. Madonna hasn't even BEGUN to do those "Oldies But Goodies" tours and she's got a catalogue matched only by Streisand.

Madonna will be around for a good long time whether you wish for this to happen or not. I, for one, and looking forward to it.

Who?

One word:VOGUE

Uh, R107/R113, have you been paying attention? Like R118 says, it's not how many records you break that determine how you'll be remembered (e.g. Michael Jackson). Madge needs to pull her head out of her ass, stop posting selfies on IG and use her social media clout to call attention to charitable endeavors. That's the legacy to which she still has a chance of elevating herself. We don't need another narcissistic attention-whore who's afraid of aging; we need people who can help focus attention on solving world problems.

I have to imagine that there are some super messed up people who post here - the kind who talk to their cats and say things like "Time to give Madonna the what for....AGAIN!" and really do think that if they post enough times they will turn the tide against her being famous, or liked. It's pathetic, and weird, and very sad.

R127 suggests that Madonna "broadcast" her charitable givings like a whore. Madonna has done a lot of work for others without having to broadcast it 24/7 to the world on CNN: Schools in Africa, her twice adoption of children who otherwise were certainly doomed to an early death, assuming the financial responsibilities of many of her staff who landed in hospital with AIDS or cancer.

She doesn't "broadcast" her goodworks and God knows she does them even if you do not.

As a gutsy, self-mobilizing, dynamo, ambitious business woman and major cultural influence who shouldn't really be taken very seriously and had a few catchy songs.

I fucking love Internet nobodies telling Madonna what to do. She's done more with her life, whether you like her or not, than you EVER will. She's made more money, seen more things, met more people, done more work. Yes, we allllllll know that her last four albums have been desperate messes. So? Even that dreck was more than you'll ever do with your life, babe.

So continue with the "this is what Madonna should do!" while she continues to live her life doing quite literally anything and anyone she wants.

Neither do we need rabid, fascistic fans bullying other posters and telling them what they can and can't say about Madonna.

A League of their Own

So much has been said here about Madonna, pro and con.

Her MDNA CD was far, far better than the hate given it here on DataLounge or elsewhere. Granted, the first two cuts from MDNA, "Give Me All Your Luvin'" and "Girls Gone Wild" were blatant attempts for radio play, much of the rest of the CD soared far above these two cuts.

We've seen Madonna include thoughtful, almost sorrowful, cuts on many of her albums as a terminus. Ray of Light comes to mind with its suicide poem "Swim (to the ocean's floor)" or the hauntingly surreal running through life in slow motion of "Mer".

Here is one similar cut from her often maligned, MDNA CD, "Falling Free". If you haven't heard anything from MDNA, listen to the bell-tones of autotune-LESS beautiful voice of Madonna.

As a punching bag for gay men of a certain age.

R132 - your use of bullying makes you sound like a weeping vagina. Grow up.

Get it through your head - nobody fucking cares whether you do or do not like her. The point is that it won't change anything about her life and the way she lives it. By all means, let's have a long talk about Madonna - there's a lot of shit to dig in - but all of this "she's old and should die and her vagina is gross and all of her music is stolen" is like being trapped in Claire's at the mall.

Note to sad Vadge fans spending all their energy defending her: She doesn't give a flying fuck about you and treats her fans like shit. She rarely even gives autographs, let alone take pictures or speak to her fans like other celebs do. She also cusses her fans out whenever she wants to take her anger out on them.

What will she be remembered for? For being a complete cunt.

And I'll remember the love that you gave me Now that I'm standing on my own I'll remember the way that you changed me I'll remember

Inside I was a child That could not mend a broken wing Outside I looked for a way To teach my heart to sing

I learned to let go of the illusion that we can possess I learned to let go, I travel in stillness And I'll remember happiness I'll remember [I'll remember] Mmmmm... [I'll remember] Mmmmm...

[I'll remember]

No I've never been afraid to cry Now I finally have a reason why I'll remember [I'll remember]

"She barely gives autographs."

That right there is why I find these threads so boring. Because this is what you're judging her on, when I doubt YOU ever tried to get one, that she denied you one, or that you even fucking wanted one: you just read it somewhere and decided that you'd form an entire opinion based on the most useless pile of words ever strung together.

The woman made a school and put exactly as much authenticity and care into it as St. Angie of Malibu and Her Majesty of Chicago (meaning that every one of those schools was a joke), but the other two bitches get knighted and Madonna gets called names. That's what bugs me - not the authentic hate about real things that have actually happened, but your personal grudge against what must be the easiest and tired of punching bags. Sometimes literally.

The only cunt at this table is R139.

Why don't you try to join the serious discourse presented here.

R139 You find it boring, yet you keep replying OVER AND OVER AND OVER again?

I'm not a fan but I'd like her more if I saw a vid of her refusing an autograph. Just fake her signature, loons.

the fued with (albeit one sided) is all she has left to spin.

I'm not saying this is the vile, hoodrat, Jabba at all. No I am not saying that at all.

Sound like Liz at R143 has fallen off the wagon again!

R141 - I've made like, what - three replies? That's hardly OVER AND OVER AND OVER. You bitches are just unhinged about every little thing, aren't you?

R136/R141, you don't like "bullying" -- how 'bout "sadistic hate spew?" Better? Less vaginal? We're speculating about how Madonna will be remembered, not on whether Madonna cares what we think or will do what we say. The current trajectory appears to be shower door licking and crotch shots, because that's where she shows up most prominently on social media. And promoting one's chosen charity is not the same as promoting one's own philanthropy.

R147, Too many words.

R148, lol

"Sadistic hate spew."

Holy shit - it's been said way too often, but never more appropriately, I think:

MARY!!!!

[quote] MARY!!!!

And R136/R150 thinks I need to grow up?

I love R132.

"Odd thing is Lauper has as much of a bitch reputation as Madonna"

True, but I have heard Cyndi Lauper allude to how difficult she is, when describing her home life and her time preparing Kinky Boots.

Cyndi Lauper's NY fans, especially, LOVE her. She has a VERY passionate fanbase, to this day.

Cyndi Lauper is 63 years old. He fan base must be in wheel chairs bgy now, R153.

63 fucking years old. Social Security old. Who is she competing against now?--Eartha Kitt?

R154 Eartha Kitt is dead and I'm not.

She is an icon. No need to be the best anything when you are iconic.

R155, I got news for you: Eartha Kitt would STILL win the contest.

Cyndi also has a Tony award.

One Emmy.

One Tony.

Two Grammys.

All she needs is Oscar to be on the short list of EGOT people.

And Madonna will be known as the most famous whore to have a recording career.

R158, just proved that statues are meaningless.

R159 I wouldn't argue your statement as I had the good luck to see Eartha Kitt perform. She made me FEEL the songs. What a voice! I like Cyndi Lauper but never saw her perform. They are two different singers. John Lennon thought the world of Eartha Kitt as well.

sorry for the typo but my response should have been directed to R157

I'm surprised famewhore Vadge hasn't done that stupid ice water bucket challenge since she loves to play on Instagram all day for attention.

I guess she didn't want to get her fried bleached hair wet since it must be a matted mess after soaking it with water.

Unhappy Troll alert @R162.

Sad Vadge stan alert @R163

Jesus R164, can't you come up with anything original and funny? Just go to bed.

I'll bet if that tired old wetback @R159 had won a People's Choice award, she'd be working right now.

[quote] she's got a catalogue matched only by Streisand.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

What is so funny R167? Madonna has had 3X the number of top 10 hits as Streisand.

well, Streisand is a true legend, though. More accolades than is possible. I mean, in 70s, nevermind her recording career, she was offered every single major studio film lead because she was top ten box office: Cabaret, They Shoot Horses, Julia, Coming Home, Klute -- etc, etc, cet. She came out of time when the most ethnic looking leading lady was Audrey Hepburn. Now that's legend.

Some of you are nuts. Madonna is not that talented, no, most pop stars aren't, but she will go down in history because of her enormous catalog alone.

In Chicago there is gay bar that has a Madonnarama night once a month, or used to if it doesn't anymore, where it plays nothing but Madonna music the whole night and doesn't have to repeat anything.

Yes, she looks old and desperate now, but her music career didn't really start to decline until 2008 or 2009.

Even if you give the credit for 4 minutes to Justin Timberlake and Timbaland, Give It 2 Me, Miles Away, and Celebration were all pretty big hits on the dance charts at least.

Even MDNA (2012) debuted at number 1 and gave her a top 10 hit.

Nobody gives a shit about the Dance Chart aka the easiest chart to get on.

Gee, R171, I'd abandon my next baby to get back on the dance charts.

I can't imagine anyone ever giving a shit about Madonna.

I definitely give madge cudos for accomplishing a lot in the music industry. But when she started to attack Gaga -- the veneer cracked -- she jumped the shark. Not because I felt I had to choose between one or the other, it was because, to me, she seemed to have lost confidence in herself.

On the other had, I once read that in the entertainment industry, a lot of the females stars work on a forumula such (your physical reality x how the public will accept you) it changes. For example, you can look at someone like Joan Crawford: from glamour girl to bitch goddess to gargoyle. She may have decided to go out camp. Anywaze, I just feel it never had to be this bad or this desperate.

Her next concert will not sell out like before because basically she kept people waiting for 3 hours around the world.

The only issue is how she is going to be publicly remembered - by the media. What sorts of articles, retrospectives, etc. are we going to see?

Private opinions are going to vary immensely and there will be DL-type threads debating the merits of Madonna at the time of her death. If someone for some reason were not familiar with Michael Jackson and asked me, "How has Michael Jackson been remembered?", I'd answer based on the substantive material I've seen in the media, not based on comments on anonymous message board, even though those comments might matter to me and even though I might agree with them. If answer to the the question of "how is she going to be remembered" is based on private opinions, then there's no answer. As stated, opinions vary immensely and there will be no answer.

I would have to think that, love her or hate her, she will be remembered as, obviously, a HUGE pop star who ushered in the video age. Beyond that, there will be talk about her challenging societal boundaries with her sex stuff and how she got a lot of people upset. I know, I know it seems ridiculous now, but these articles will ostensibly be looking back and placing her in context of the times when she was a big star, as they should.

In terms of acting, I think she will remembered in multiple ways. First, I'm sure it will be acknowledged that she wasn't the greatest actress though she did okay in a few roles. Second, I think when writers are taking a broad view of her career, I think they'll view her acting part of her ambitious nature, and desire to challenge herself.

I think she'll be remembered as a pretty smart business woman, who was again very ambitious.

I think anyone writing really in depth about her career will acknowledge that she co-opted a lot of musical, dance, fashion stuff, but that can be seen as a negative AND as a positive.

As someone else upthread stated, there is a risk that writers will give her credit for starting or innovating more than she did. But, that often happens with huge stars.

Many articles will probably stop at that point, while others may delve into the later years and talk about her post-prime years.

I never thought about it, but it really might matter when she dies. If she dies when she's, say, 62, then there will be people around who lived and breathed Madonna who can summarize her career. If she dies when she's 92, there will inevitably be someone who knows something about her, and there will obviously be writers who can do the research, but I wonder if something will be lost if they're so far removed from having actually experienced her themselves.

[quote] But when she started to attack Gaga -- the veneer cracked -- she jumped the shark. Not because I felt I had to choose between one or the other, it was because, to me, she seemed to have lost confidence in herself.

Madonna has always been one for a bitchy soundbite - e.g. re Janet Jackson or Mariah Carey.

A post like R176 is well worth the $18 for DL. Such posts are rare nowadays, but every so often someone hits it out of the ballpark. Kudos to you, talented R176

[quote]Madonna has always been one for a bitchy soundbite - e.g. re Janet Jackson or Mariah Carey.

She's always been threatened by other women, especially ones from her generation.

Now she can't suck up enough to the current "it" girls in pop because she's a has-been and desperate to look cool by hanging onto them.

In the future, I predict that anytime the words "beef" and "curtains" are used in any sentence, the image brought to mind will be of Madonna bent over and looking at her naked crotch with a look on her face like she's smelled a decomposing corpse.

So sayeth I on this day, twenty hundred and fourteen!

R178, what are these "current IT girls" you refer"? Why would Madonna--with her 30 year career of hits--think she needs to compete against this year's fizzling firecrackers. Minoj? Brit? The twerking girl?

As the cuntiest cunt who ever cunted, of course.

R180== learned a new word this week to bring to 2nd grade.

As Pandora with that busy box she just couldn't keep sealed.

Poor R182, fumbling for a joke. Go to bed.

Madonna will be remembered as the Queen of the music video. Most of them still hold up, and she was able to combine her talents in a way that were greater than the sum of their parts.

Desperately Seeking Susan is a time capsule for Madonna 1.0. If you want to explain her early mass appeal, that's the best record of her look and speaking voice.

I remember a TV interview where she said, "When I'm dead, they'll kiss my ass."

She'll be remembered like this:

Jesus, R185, thanks for letting me lose 5 minutes of my life. That thing wasn't even funny let alone clever. What a waste.

[quote]I remember a TV interview where she said, "When I'm dead, they'll kiss my ass."

Talk about deluded. With the exception of a few pathetic fans, nobody will even give a fuck, let alone kiss her ass.

Giant slayer

R187, maybe you should've stopped watching it after 5 seconds like I did.

OK, I have an honest question (as a middle-aged, straight guy who loves DL): Why have so many of you turned on Madonna with such vehemence? (I'm asking this as someone who finds her personally annoying)

R191 probably because of the same reason you find her "annoying". She IS annoying. She refuses to grow up, she is the ultimate narcissist and her recent (i.e. the last 15 yrs) music is crap. She had a good run, we loved her wackiness back then but now she is just fucking ANNOYING.

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

"reductive"

OMG, R193!

You mean to tell me that girl used the word "heart" in a song she wrote and Madonna then used that same word in a different song.

SCANDALOUS!!!

How dare Madonna not know that word can never be used again!

She's such a fucking rip-off artist!

PS... I also love how she is stealing Chrissy Hynde's look...eventhough that picture of Madonna was taken before the picture of Hynde.

This is what she needs to do to salvage some dignity and likeability:

Radically upgrade appearance. First, remove all Adidas, leather driving gloves, grillz, sneakers, puffa jackets and garish 'street wear' items from wardrobe. Start dressing in classic, beautiful clothes suitable for a wealthy, stylish, mother of four heading for 60. Stop trying to compete with your teenage daughter. Cut your hair by three inches. Ditch the cheap platinum blonde for warmer, darker tones. Warm up your makeup. The chalk-white face and scarlet lips looks creepy at your age.

Announce once last goodbye tour, medium sized venues, with all hits reworked as acoustic, jazz, flamenco etc. No electronic pop numbers, no showgirl fishnet and bondage costumes.

Ditch the perfume and skincare lines. Establish a foundation and a gallery for emerging artists in NYC. Build on your charitable work in Detroit. Give the University of Michigan millions for state of the art performing arts facilities. Establish bursaries for under-privileged talented kids.

Stop paying 20 year olds to be your walker / sex partner.

Shut your Instagram account and stay off the internet unless it's to promote your foundations / gallery.

Never show the public your ass / crotch / tits again.

Crack jokes at your own expense in interviews.

R196, you must lead a pathetically lonely life to have spent so much of it writing that dreck.

Dreck which you made time to read, and felt moved to respond to, R197. Let's be friends!

She needs to get her Katharine Hepburn game on already

R196 I agree with most of what you said except about her "farewell tour". She should do a best hits tour, call it farewell/farewell-for-now/whatever... Cher has been doing it for years now. She would sell out LARGE stadiums if she said it was her LAST tour with all her big hits.

[quote]She needs to get her Katharine Hepburn game on already

I don't get it, what do you mean r199?

The people saying she will be forgotten sound as silly and delusional as the ones touting her as this era's DaVinci.

She was a media sensation, the ultimate triumph of style over substance that defined culture in the 80s and foreve after.

She didn't accomplish great things, but she represents a turning point in our popular culture where marketability and salesmanship trumped art and talent, once and for all.

Yes, that's mostly a bad thing. But she only represents the most sophisticated example of that trend circa 1982. Her influence was that she provided a template for every female pop star since.

She will be talked about 100 years from now, but not as a great artist nor as a great innovator. She represents an era and the far-reaching trends it spawned. She is an icon for those reasons alone, like it or not.

I'll Remember.

Once again don't be absurd r202.

[quote] Establish a foundation and a gallery for emerging artists in NYC. Build on your charitable work in Detroit. Give the University of Michigan millions for state of the art performing arts facilities. Establish bursaries for under-privileged talented kids.

Good suggestions for Madge, R196...

Why SHOULD she do ANY of this? Does Mick Jagger do these things?

Jagger is also philanthropically challenged, as far as anyone knows.

Jagger is notoriously stingy, but I think Madonna is just so removed from her emotions (if she ever had any) that no matter what she does, it always has to benefit her somehow. I really hope this isn't completely true but it sure seems like it is . . . she just seems like a real MEAN person! Like someone who would kick a homeless person.

Jagger is far meaner to people he actually KNOWS, but that's another thread...

Yes, I think Jagger is worse. I don't condone the "don't look at me" behaviour of celebrities like Madonna, but it's worse to treat intimates badly than it is to be dismissive with strangers who can bounce back from such behaviour easily.

Madonna ripping off Marilyn every step of the way:

Madonna to me represents not taking no for an answer and doing it anyway. As underdogs, how many times were you told no, no you cant, no you shouldn't and did it anyway...

She took what she had and through sheer will created herself into one of the most popular female entertainers of all time...

Her singles catalogue speaks for itself...

It was a fun ride that surprised practically everyone.

Put on "Into the Groove"......

R211, I think it's hilarious that this hairy-assed beast thinks she looks like, or could even barely resemble, Marilyn Monroe. The EGO of this bitch is just of such epic proportions that it's unfathomable; too much for normal brains to comprehend.

R211, thanks for sharing that link. In some of the photos Madonna looks like such a drag queen.

She will be remembered as an oddity, a personality that marshalled her personal style into a career. As Truman Capote is reputed to have said after attending Christine Jorgensen's nightclub act--"Next she'll be doin' freak shows!" And Tru knew a lot about freak shows.

Look, I COMPLETELY understand if people don't personally like Madonna.

But, seriously, you don't think she'll be remembered for the HUGE star she was in her heyday?

Even if she's not a cultural icon when she dies, you don't think the fact that she was once a huge cultural icon will be mentioned?

I don't like her anymore but she was a huge part of my youth, I bought every CD single and album and that SEX book. She was a horrible singer but then worked hard and became a decent singer, better than taylor swift at least lol.

She milked it to the max and seized every opportunity and broke some new grounds for the singers and performers that came after her.

She will be remembered, R216, if for nothing else than as a study in how someone like her could BECOME famous in the first place. It really says an awful lot about our culture so will therefore be relevant for a while anyway. It's a very negative legacy but in her eyes, a legacy nonetheless.

I completely agree with R212. People can say what they want about Madonna but the woman deserves props for basically being a complete NOBODY from Bay City, Michigan who became the biggest star in the world in the span of, what, 2-3 years? She moved to NYC in 1979 to become a dancer and then decided in 1980/1981 that she wanted to be a singer. Three years later, she was the biggest star in pop music. How many other major female popstars are THAT self-made? And that quickly?

Even though Madonna had a lot of help in her career, it was help that she sought out herself. When you look at other major popstars, you start to realize that they all came from families that were already famous (Janet) or were child stars whose parents groomed them for the spotlight (Britney, Christina, Beyonce, etc.). Even Gaga grew up playing music. The only other person that comes close to going from a real nobody to somebody is Lana Del Rey and she's A) nowhere near Madonna's level of fame and B) there are rumors that her father helped her career.

Hate her all you want, Madonna is one of a kind for the sheer willpower she employed to get to the top.

Madonna is probably the greatest musical star in History.

I will remember Madonna for not only her fat legs at LIVE AID, but even more for her nasty- assed attitude back stage. And her acne.

And, might I add, her disgusting veins in her hands and her pathetically grotesque, overly worked-out body.

Yes, she was an icon and I'll also give her that but she was the realist bitch to ever walk the earth.

[quote]Only she, Cher and Streisand have any hope of eternal fame, I guess. Who else?

I would think actual novelists and filmmakers have a better chance. They actually produce something instead of just standing around reflecting light. Of course, Cher and Streisand had good voices... [italic]once.[/italic] But popular music is inherently perishable and will be forgotten over time. How much do we remember the top popular singers of 100 years ago?

Hi, Sandra Bernhard/R221!

As Romeo Beckham-Ritchie's mother-in-law.

I'm with 218 -- and I think, it was possible because the entertainment media boomed larger starting in the 80s and gets bigger all the time.

Cher never had a good voice.

I doubt she will be remembered long term. After a couple of years, no one will care.

Tori Ames is the legend. We all KNOW that!

She will be remembered as someone with absolutely no talent but able to fool a lot of very gullible people with obvious hearing impairment.

She'll be remembered as single-handedly bring the term FOP back into parlance!

ga ga goo goo

Remembered as ambitious cunt who got the job done and well enough, for decades, became a billionaire, and went down fighting.

Yes some of her songs will last.

puttana dell'universo

[QUOTE]How will Madonna be remembered ?

An icon. Hard, cheap trash with a moderate talent who worked it well.

as THE QUEEN

As a miserable old bitch and huge slut.

No, R235, you will be remembered as "THE QUEEN." R236 and R233 got it right.

Total legend

Something to Remember

Like she has continued to be remembered all these last many years since she passed long ago -- whimsically and ironically. No??

As redundant.

Mother of Jesus.

As someone who attracted sick fucks like you who exhumed dead threads about her from 1554! Now GO AWAY.

Her music will live on but sadly, like Michael Jackson, George Michael and Prince she will probably be remembered more for her later life misguided "choices". In her case the surgeries, social media desperation, tone deaf messaging and contemporary irrelevance.

If it wasn't for Jellybean and Shep Pettibone, her music wouldn't be remembered today.

Queen of all things