Fathers who really hate their kids

Thanks for sharing.

That's a very telling story, OP. It's always amazing when a parent so clearly gets no joy from his kids.

The dislike, however, can take many forms. My father had five sons, all of whom he ignored till they were in their twenties, when he started picking fights with us. Fights over nothing, but he was determined to create a battle of wills and win it. It's a form of hatred, I suppose, though he never would have thought of it that way. Probably he was simply threatened by the fact that we were young and having a good time, and he certainly wasn't.

In the end, my two older brothers threw him and my evil bitch of a mother out of their lives before they were twenty. I followed suit somewhat later. And when he died I didn't feel a thing.

There are a lot of mothers and fathers out there like this. Most are just assholes. Finding one who understands the kindness and patience that's involved is so rare. It's as rare as finding a decent, trustworthy person.

I'm hoping "attachment" and gentle or positive parenting will change things

This guy sounds like someone who got married and had kids, but never really wanted to do either. Now he's permanently pissed that he has what he considers "shackles" on his personal freedom.

He's like the sort of man who acquires a wife and kids as part of his personal accessorizing (perhaps it looks good for his career trajectory), but has absolutely no interest in being a husband or father.

Hopefully the mother has some parenting skills, but she clearly doesn't want to challenge her husband.

Lots of men don't want to be fathers. It's just something that's thrown on them or they give into.

Social engineering demands children. What social engineering doesn't demand is the frank question should I be getting into the kid biz? Honest self-analysis would save so children the horrors of being an abuse/neglect survivor.

An Especially Sad Tale!

If his son is 9 and he is in his twenties then he has his kids very very young and probably didn't want them to begin with ... no excuse for treating them like crap but that's most likely it. I expect he'll be leaving soon. Best y the way if I were hit his daughter I'd give you a big hug that response was spot on.

Lots of women manipulate the wrong men into having children, they pick hot alphas instead of stable betas..oh well women are stupid

Good for you for what you said. You didn't enable a thing.

The posters here are accurate. Selfish devils.

What an asshole. The poor kids will be scarred for life. :(

Some people should never have children and since his wife doesn't defend the kids he is probably not treating her any better.

Nice burn from the OP though.

My neighbor is just like OP's guy. And guess what my neighbor does for a living?

He's a pediatrician!

R9 Yeah, because it can't possible have been the man having made the mistake of fucking without contraception or wanting a trophy wife and family and then realising he can't deal with it... The stupid person here is obviously the man. He is unhappy and he destroys innocent kids along the way. Well done.

Narcissistic personality disorder. Poor kids.

I love how R9 immediately blames women for fathers not loving their kids. Only on Datalounge, folks!

Frau thread

Since you burned him in front of his family, I imagine he's been specially charming fun thereafter.

Still, at least he doesn't lie with the man, and has gone forth and multiplied. That's the main thing. Four miserable people, unlucky kids, but duty fulfilled. Eye-roll.

I hope the kids have the spark to be planning their exits as I type. Doubtless it'll be a race to try and pre-empt his inevitable 'on your way' speech. If he hangs around.

What an Engaging, Sensitive Topic, OP!

r9 is just bitter. Ignore him.

I hope those kids are fiery and confident and aren't bothered by him.

You see it all the time. Even Raymond in "Everybody Loves Raymond" admitted that he found it boring to be around his kids.

[quote]he found it boring to be around his kids.

Well of course. Why else do you think we invented Boarding Schools?

This father sounds like an abusive prick. No excuses for that. However, it is true that many men just do not know what they are getting in to when they decide to fuck a woman without condoms / have kids.

Narcissist straight guys just completely freak out when their wife transfers most of her attention to raising the baby. And even non-disordered guys are usually shell-shocked by the impact of kids. If they can't handle it, it's best they just leave. But many don't because then they're labelled a dead beat, or they lose their house and have to live in a small apartment.

Sound like thangs ain't right in the BEEEDDrooms!

[quote]Narcissist straight guys just completely freak out when their wife transfers most of her attention to raising the baby. And even non-disordered guys are usually shell-shocked by the impact of kids. If they can't handle it, it's best they just leave.

And if a woman is married to this "narcissist straight guy," just who the fuck else is GOING to be "raising the baby," if not she? The narcissist? The grandparents? The government? Your Father Who art in Heaven?

And you don't think women are ever "shell-shocked by the impact of kids?" And if she "can't handle it," is it best for her to "just leave," as well?

Were you raised by wolves, R23? Did you think this through even a little bit?

Someone should probably tell R21 that "Everybody Loves Raymond" was a sitcom with actors and a writing staff and not a documentary.

What OP describes is psychological abuse, not jokes played for laughs in front of a studio audience.

Gays are so vilified by straights in all these family matters, but...

You can't blame abortion on gay people! All that monstrousness is totally a STRAIGHT thing! Not that I care one way or the other.

Straight people are brainlessly programmed to bear children whether they want them or not. Gay people have to go through hell and back to have a family, often adopting "throwaway" children straight people can't be bothered with.

Seems to me there's a lot to be learned from gay people about families.

R19 is our resident Frau concern troll ignore her

And it seems to me R27 you don't know very much about reproduction. It isn't nearly as easy for the majority of straight people as you seem to think.

R29, what are you talking about? Infertility is not THAT widespread. Given how the human population has exploded in the last 50 years, it's pretty obvious that reproduction is pretty damn easy in general.

my spouse and I went through hell and high water to adopt his drug addicted niece's baby girl. His niece subsequently died from an overdose. It took months to do make this adoption a done deal, along with a lot of legal expenses. Alexandra, who is now 7, brings us tons of joy, love and laughter. I will NEVER understand why there are dickheads who treat their children so abusively, whether it's physical, mental or verbal. You have to REALLY want a child, as much as we did, to appreciate it.

The weird part is he did that in public. It's bad enough in private.

R31, I believe I know your spouse, who is one of my lifelong friends. Does his middle name start with J?

You know I actually thought it would take a couple of pages before it got into a women-are-terrible-and-everything-is-their-fault but R9 went above and beyond.

The opposite of love is indifference, not hate.

My father wanted me to be a boy and was pissed at me for not being one. He basically never spoke to me. My mother worked at night, and he never helped me with homework or anything. Just parked his ass in front of the tv set.

I became an avid reader because of it. Didn't help me professionally, since my parents refused to give me money for college. Took me 20 years to get my degrees while working full time and watched much younger people get promoted while I went nowhere. It was kind of a waste getting my degrees. I was already well-read, but I thought it would help professionally. Didn't.

My father didn't have much to say anyway, so I didn't really miss much. But I was pissed that my parents felt that I had no right to go to college since they didn't go to college. They had the money but wouldn't spend it on me. Why should I be spoiled? I wasn't anything special.

my spouse's middle name is William, so he's not your friend.

R30, I wasn't specifically referring to infertility. Perfectly fertile people can try for pregnancy for long periods of time without hitting the mark for various reasons I won't bore you with. On top of that most pregnancies (around 70% according to my gyne/obstetrics textbook) result in spontaneous abortions, better known as miscarriages. Furthermore, fertility is not a black and white phenomenon. It would be more appropriate to view fertility on a scale.

The couples that conceive and make it through a successful pregnancy effortlessly are not the majority. And the reason why population has exploded so rapidly is not because human reproduction is so easy but instead do to modern technical advances. It's one of the reasons why the global human population grew slowly until the advent of the agricultural and industrial revolutions.

My father was like this. In the entire time I was growing up we spent 2 afternoons together doing something. The rest of the time it was as if I didn't exist.

All he was to me was a sperm donor. He wasn't a father.

It's more common than you think.

How weird, it's just that all the details were identical, including the drug-addicted niece, the adoption of the great-niece, the custody process and court, the age of the great-niece, the great-niece's name (almost identical to my friend's great-niece's name). Well, regardless, good luck and I am sure you are great parents. Statistically, adoptive parents are the best; it must be because they really want children (unlike the OP's acquaintance).

These are the type of father's who leave their kids in a car to roast to death.

You have to show that you aren't in any financial troubles, that you have a good job, don't have a criminal history, and can provide a good home before the ASPCA will allow you to adopt a cat or dog.

Yet any damned fool can have a kid.

Lot of women shouldn't be mothers, even MORE men shouldn't be fathers.

Abort, abort, as Patsy would say.

Snip 'em; treat 'em like dogs.

R43, I wonder why you say more men shouldn't be parents in comparison to women especially when women are far more likely to commit child abuse.

"Approximately 40 percent of child victims were maltreated by their mothers acting alone; another 18.3 percent were maltreated by their fathers acting alone; 17.3 percent were abused by both parents (USDHHS, 2007)."

Why couldn't the baby jeebus just make breeders eat their young?

I agree that this is a man who never should've had kids, but I will give him credit for showing his true feelings. At my work, I have to hear this dumb stupid frau talk glowingly about her kids HALF the day as if she's the only person in the world to have ever had kids and as if it's the best thing in the world. It's so fucking phony and annoying - nobody wants to hear that shit all damn day.

Sorry 13 and 15 but 9 is right and the mothers are the worst. You think they love you more than your nasty idiot father but boy are you ever wrong. They are the real back stabbers.

The mothers are the enablers. They see the fathers act like total shits to the children and do nothing.

Why? Because they like the companionship, the perks of being a married couple and they like the lifestyles they are living.

They oh so lovingly give birth to you but no way in hell are they going to give up the sex or the homes they've so wanted since they were little girls.

"You are my child I love you with all the love a mother can give. You are the most important thing in the world to me. But you can rot in the heart of hell if it means me having to give up your father fucking my brains out and giving up my comfortable home.

In other words you are trapped with his taking a putrid dump on you whenever he feels like it and you don't have a prayer. But just remember I love you so very much no matter what."

Mothers make Hitler look like a sensitive Steve.

Wow, so this is what passes for bad parenting these days? My dad talked to me like that ALL the time. I learned to stay out of his way. Verbal abuse was the least of my worries.

You know the most annoying thing about fathers like the OP's aquaintance? They'll treat their first, unwanted group of kids like dirt, but after the divorce he's likely to marry again, and have a clutch of kids he wants. And then, his elder kids will get to see their half-siblings get all the kindness, thoughtfulness, and paternal pride they have hungered for their entire lives.

If I ever want to make a million bucks by shady means, I'll start a self-help movement for Children of First Marriages.

PS: I can see why R48's momma didn't like him.

Agree, r48. I was one of seven children, and our dad was really harsh to us all the time, in front of people and in private. He also wasn't averse to cracking us across the face if we said or did something he didn't like, or giving us an old-fashioned ass-whupping with his belt for very little reason.

There was no affection or playfulness in him. Maybe he thought all that verbal abuse and physical correction would improve our characters. He was really cruel to our mother, too, so she wasn't an enabler as much as another hostage. She was very gentle and submissive by nature and by upbringing, and they were Catholic--married for life. So there was no way out for any of us except to grow into teenagers and get the hell out of there.

50 I don't want to be incredibly rude. But 7 children?

So I will go ahead and be incredibly rude. Your loving submissive catholic mother was getting her brains fucked out.

And while her husband was behaving like a crazed gorilla she was saying her rosaries and fingering her scapulars.

Fucking sickos. Don't let them fool you. They are so slick.

Apologies to R48, I was speaking of R47.

[quote]"Approximately 40 percent of child victims were maltreated by their mothers acting alone; another 18.3 percent were maltreated by their fathers acting alone; 17.3 percent were abused by both parents (USDHHS, 2007)."

I could be wrong, but I'd bet a lot of the 40% who were abused by mothers acting alone weren't abused by their fathers because their fathers just weren't in their lives at all.

r51, my mother had seven children in 10 years, plus several miscarriages, before she had enough and moved to the couch. After #7 was brought home from the hospital, she never moved back into the marital bedroom. She never discussed why she was sleeping on the couch, but it was clear that she was relieved to be excused from sharing a bed with my father.

Catholics didn't use birth control back then as far as I could see in our parish. Families of 10-12 children were not that unusual. Women were basically household slaves.

R30 About 20% of the straight population is sterile (as in one part of a straight couple), you dumbass. And quite a few who are not still have to wait sometimes months for her to become pregant. And then there can still be a miscarriage. There are two women in my family alone who had several miscarriages. It's extremely traumatic but luckily they were able to have healthy children afterward.

I know I made it look easy, but parenting can actually sometimes be difficult.

R44 Well, no shit Sherlock. You mean that women, who in 99% of cases or more are the ones raising the children, are the ones maltreating them twice as often as the fathers? Considering that most fathers have not much time to even maltreat their kids the percentage of 18% is shocking.

R46 is desperately jealous of the woman and bitter her can't have children.

R47 had an abusive father, blamed his mother and is probably close to turning into a serial killer.

R47 is only a bad wig away from being Norman Bates.

Sigh. r4 says it best. Sometimes men just acquire a wife and kids as necessary accessory pieces because they need to look good for a career.

I suspect that such was the case with my career military father. He ignored us, and let it be known that he really didn't want us. I really believe that he hated us and the burden we were to him. He was busy getting it on with other military men but must have needed us for appearances sake to look good to superiors and for advancements.

r61 here again. And I won't even get into the physical and psychological abuse...

r61 did your mother know your father was gay? Did they eventually get a divorce?

Like the above stated, if he's in his late twenties, he knocked her up when he was 19. They were fine for a couple of years and had another to make the family complete.

2 kids is FAR different than one child. The stresses start to add up and then he's looking 30 in the face and realizes his youth is fading and he didn't get a chance to act out/fuck around/whatever.

They will be divorced within 5 years - or he'll be fucking around a lot. She'll be in a sad state as she probably never had a chance to develop a career. The kids will act out as teenagers and one of them will become pregnant early as well.

99% R57? Really? 99% or more of women in relationships are the only ones raising the children, is that what your saying? I'm sure I don't need to say it but you sound like an idiot.

Sure if the family is traditional and the mother is a homemaker and the father is the provider, she's going to have more responsibilities with child care, that's a given. But how does that fact invalidate what the meaning of my post? I was just pointing out that demonizing a potential father based on the fact he's male about child abuse in comparison to a potential mother is not accurate.

What the fuck is you problem R57?

R47 you get it, sadly most cannot comprehend how evil and cunning women have become...we live in a Frau dominated media culture and straight men are unable to see their women for the horror show they are until it's too late

Actually a lot of child abuse comes not from the father (who is long gone) but from the mother's boyfriend. Often the women are complicit in it.

Heterosexuals have no business raising children.

This is 47 and all I can say is 59 and 60 are very young.

And by the way some of the most harrowing victims I have seen of these enabling mothers are the daughters.

Absolutely heartbreaking the way they are emotionally destroyed.

The fathers are clearly insane. But the mothers are purely calculating.

[R46] is desperately jealous of the woman and bitter her can't have children.

Oh, dear!

So, r66, Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes and 99% of the homophobic, misyogynistic talking heads they have unleashed on the world, plus all the homophobic, misyogynistic politicians who do their evil bidding, are fraus or dominated by fraus?

I work with a lot of highly educated "non-fraus" and most of them say that they didn't really want kids, but their husbands were desperate for them. Some of them regret having their children.

I have also seen it with straight male friends. All of them want offspring really badly. I think they don't realise what hard work it is, especially for the woman. I think they see the kids as some kind of trophy to their masculinity.

My parents were married 8 years before they had me. My father did not want children, my mother did, so she "tricked him" and got pregnant. He always bought condoms by the gross, so obviously he never trusted her to take care of the birth control after that. He was horrible to me. Despite the fact that he had significantly higher income than any of our family and friends, we lived far worse... we lived in a back alley in a converted garage with 2 tiny bedrooms up under the eaves. Which he rented for $50 a month. My mother dressed me from Salvation Army as he complained about every expense I caused him. He made me wear shoes for 18 months straight and I waddled the half mile to school when I walked as they would not bend my feet because the shoes were so tight. When I finally got a new pair I was up a size and half. My mother simply dismissed any of my complaints telling me I was imagining things. It was absolutely insane. The teachers actually took up a collection for me when I was in high school and wanted me to take it so I could do some of the activities the other kids did... I refused as I was so humiliated. Everyone tried to help me but I was so ashamed of how I was treated, I hated it when they did. Now I wish I had taken some of the help... they may have helped get me out of there. But I had to pretend to myself that people didn't notice in order to face the world. To give you an idea, my parents spent major amounts of money on jewelry for my mother, big important pieces costing tens of thousands. My father's gold coin collections, etc. Hundreds of thousands in the bank, but my father would still write down every time he spent $9 to take me to the doctor and complain about if for years after. He refused to pay for numbing so I had all procedures without. He said if he had to pay his money on me he wanted me to feel it. I am taking care of him now as he is elderly, and cousins tell me I am far too kind given how they saw me treated. I try to treat him the way I WISH he had treated me, but I remember I would pray every night not to wake up in the morning....that is not normal for a 10 year old..... it is hard to believe how miserable I was..... I blame my mother more than him NOW that I understand. He knew he didn't want kids, my mother just did what she wanted anyway but did not take responsibility to make my life bearable. But she got her diamonds, rubies and emeralds.

R73 I'm sorry for your childhood but your father had other options than miserable abusive asshole. He did those things and no one put a gun to his head to force him. If he really didn't want children why didn't he get a vasectomy? Condoms break, no birth control method is 100%.

Maybe he's just a vicious cunt?

My father was like this with us. He was jealous whenever mother doted on us.

R73: This may sound terrible, but I feel badly for you and I think your father doesn't deserve your care and you should abandon him straight away. It's Christian of you, but doesn't it in effect reward him for mistreating you?

R27 Not that hard for gay women to get pregnant, dear.

R73, sorry for your upbringing. Both your parents are to blame.

If your father was always such a prick, expect to be left out of the will. If that is the case, contest it.

Coincidentally, that bad neighbor thread reminded me of my own really awful neighbor. Late-20s dudebro type, already married with four little girls who he'd let play out in the street while he and his beer gut chugged warm Coors out of the can. He'd start rumors about neighbors and was just a pain in the ass.

He moved away five years ago and in that time has gotten a PhD in kinesiology and has all sorts of papers online about how "God needs to be involved in public education" because "obesity is a sin against God." Says the guy with the beer gut.

Anyway, I also saw his personal blog at school, a log of all the activities he did, and NO mention of the kids or wife, except one little mention that one of his daughters was "a little jerk" about something.

That man hates his kids. Since he's psycho-Catholic, though, I'm sure he has even MORE than the four I last knew about.

"Late-20s dudebro type, already married with four little girls "

Late 20s with four children is insane. Are his parents rich? Not that it matters. Still insane.

[quote]The wife said nothing, and when he turns back to me to continue his story about his baseball game, I said, "Can you sign this today? Can you put your signature here so I can leave and finish my work? Is that possible?"

And then you pulled out your 10-inch dick and he fell to his knees to suck it before you fucked his brains out, right there in front of his wife and kids.

Then you looked in the mirror and you were 24 again.

R73: If your mom had really gotten pregnant to spite your dad, he would have been JUST as mad at her as he was at you. He wouldn't have kept giving her jewels if she'd disobeyed him like that.

Not that she's not somewhat to blame but I don't think ALL the blame is hers. Your father wasn't forced into acting like that.

And stop taking care of him. I took care of my abusive mother when she was terminal and I regret it. I don't care how bad a person that makes me, I fully and completely regret it. Get him to some nursing home -- he's got the money for it -- and move on.

R79 → Psycho stalker

Yeah, I just can't get enough of dudebros with beer guts who knock up their stupid wives repeatedly. You got me, R83.

R49, that sounds like the Bing Crosby family. Was a shit to the first set of kids and doted on the second set.

[quote] he turns around and says, "Would you shut up when I'm talking? Can you shut up for like, five minutes? Is that possible for you to do?"

I may know this guy if he lives in Atlanta. I know a guy that has said the same exact thing, word for word to his kids

And men may be cruel inhumane assholes, but why do these stupid women keep having more kids with a man like this? Even if they have to stay with someone because of finances, there is no excuse to have more children. If you have one child, you have a chance to get away eventually. If you have a bunch of them, you are stuck

R79 R84 He was your neighbor 5 years ago, yet you've followed his career, education, his "personal blog at school", you're up-to-date with him?

Stalkerella. Own it.

[quote] Actually a lot of child abuse comes not from the father (who is long gone) but from the mother's boyfriend. Often the women are complicit in it

That's definitely true.

Kids are very vulnerable to abuse by their mom's boyfriend or step-father. Child abusers often target divorced single moms to get access to kids they can abuse.

R87, as I already said, I looked him up a couple days ago because the bad neighbor thread reminded me of the guy. Everything I mentioned was on one webpage, his personal school blog.

I'm sure you think using Google or the search function on Facebook or going to LinkedIn is total stalking... oh, no, wait, you don't think that at all, you're just a bored twat who was home on a Friday night with nothing better to do. Own it.

"And men may be cruel inhumane assholes, but..."

And then you still blame the woman.

OTOH, there's a thread here called something like "Why do men lie?" that discusses how gay men lie and are cruel to each other.

So -- why, when dealing with (the many) asshole men out there, is the woman to blame, but when you boys have to deal with the asshole men, you're the victim?

Your double standard is rearing its ugly head again.

I agree with whoever said straight people should not have kids.

Ignore r66 and their ilk. They are delusional enough to think that women are evil and men are their hostages. Straight men can stand up to women just fine. After all, they made your lives hell in middle school. I think they are well trained in being meaner and nastier than everyone else.

Hey lez we are blaming both the men and the women. Don't you get it? The But comes from the women playing the victim card. They are both 4 star shits. Stop putting your own personal agenda into everything you read. In other words the women are as big a monster as the men. They are just a bit more crafty at hiding it. So I give them credit for that. But you still have to be aware of it. In no way are they saints. That is completely delusional. Women can go to church every Sunday and pray all the way to hell and back. It makes them no less evil than the men who give quite the performace while destroying the children.

And I do not think all men and women are like this. Just abusive couples where everyone puts the blame at the feet of the husband.

I wasn't close with my dad growing up, although in his defense (1) he worked two jobs, and (2) his own dad died when he was a kid, so he had no role model as a father. He wasn't abusive, but stern and only occasionally accessible. I never felt unwanted, but I always wished for a closer relationship.

I do agree that some parents have children because it's what they're supposed to do. Like the father who spends all of his time hanging with his buddies and lets his wife and kids vacation without him. Or the woman who doesn't work, but hired a nanny anyway, because she's too busy with her social schedule to care for her kids. Or the couple that goes away for the weekend leaving their kids (early teens) alone for the weekend.

One of the most attractive traits in a partner is someone who loves unconditionally and puts their children's needs in front of their own. And no, this doesn't mean giving the kids everything they ask for.

I've long posted about my crush on Hot Dad at the gym, and as I've gotten to know him over the last couple of years, I find him more attractive based on the way he treats his kids. They come first, before anything else. It's cool to see as they get older (his son is 20, his daughter 18) that the kids still have a close relationship with their parents. The whole family actually enjoys spending time together.

And girls get the spit up the ass just like the boys. Abuse of children by the parents does not discriminate based on gender. Only possibly based on favored children.

My sister has a theory that people are good to the kids when they really loved the kids' other parent; bad when they hate the other parent.

Our mom had three daughters by three men. One man was the favorite, who later dumped her. That daughter could do no wrong.

She left another husband when the baby was three months old. We don't know the details, but he was a very serious drunk and probably either beat her, or cheated on her or both. She dumped that daughter with the grandparents. She only retrieved her when she remarried, and her new husband kept asking why she didn't pick up her oldest from Grandma, since he was ready and willing to provide for her. She did, and then her new husband molested the child. She never knew.

She always had a horrible relationship with that daughter, even when she lived with Grandma. The daughter hated her mother, and the mother didn't care much for her either.

My parents had me to save a failing marriage. It didn't work. They had incredible animosity towards each other. Neither one of them had much use for me after the divorce. I had outlived my purpose in their eyes. I was 9.

The only one putting their own personal agenda is you, r94. She was simply calling out the hypocrisy of the posters here. Believe it or not, women are often the victims of these abusers as much as the children.

That is right pull out the woman is often the abused card. Whatever works for you. Most women are saints. Fortunately you have no idea how full of shit you both are.

And women who have been abused by their fathers will also hold their mothers responsible for being complicit.

But lie to yourself if it makes you feel better.

r100, you have spewed a lot of garbage, but yet no actual facts. There is nothing to back up anything you're saying.

After a childhood of grinding poverty (oldest boy of 8 kids) my father thought he was going to be a swinging playboy. Alas, he ended-up fat, with a naggy wife and 3 kids whose names names he could never remember.

We were just moneypits.

A recent article said couples are happiest when their kids leave home. Some were sorry they even had children.

"This Be The Verse"

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.

They may not mean to, but they do.

They fill you with the faults they had,

And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn

By fools in old-style hats and coats,

Who half the time were soppy-stern

And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.

It deepens like a coastal shelf.

Get out as early as you can,

And don't have any kids yourself.

Was he a professional baseball player, OP?

I agree with R8, and he might be showing his anger over having kids early. And also, his father was probably a jerk as well.

When I've been in that situation, I try to show simultaneous positive interest in the child and disinterest in the jerk until I can leave his presence. And I make it clear when he's not around his kids to leave as quickly as possible.

It's really sad, and I feel for the kids. Hopefully, they have kind people in their lives.

I love Philip Larkin.

Women are in complete control of the children they have and the men they manipulate to be fathers. Of course women are cunning and play the victim card well and often

Whether this specific story is an EST or not, it is true enough for many families.

The father is immature and self-involved. Being so incredibly dismissive, the children will grow up with zero self-esteem.

Also, if the mother is weak, the children will grow up to resent her if she does not defend them or stand up to their father.

My father was a bit like that. I didn't kill him, but I left when I was 18 and now he is old.

When you can't fight, run.

"My sister has a theory that people are good to the kids when they really loved the kids' other parent; bad when they hate the other parent."

Not true in many cases. My own parents do love each other (in a narcissist/enabler sort of way), and were abusive or indifferent to the kids. And I know other people who've gone through nasty divorces, hate the ex, and smother the kids as they give up on romantic love.

And there are even sane people who are good, sane, and kind with the kids, even if they don't think much of the ex. Not as many as there should be, of course.

My dad hated and blamed me, and I have no idea why.

Is it a form of self-hatred? Some fathers only like to see mirror images of themselves. Discovering a new presence in the house isn't likely something they expected or wanted.

[quote]Women are in complete control of the children they have and the men they manipulate to be fathers. Of course women are cunning and play the victim card well and often

Freaks who think shit like this are even more misandrist than they are misogynist, if they truly believe men are that weak, stupid, and easily manipulated.

R113 you sound childish and ignorant

Just heard a guy on my walk this morning yelling at what I thought was a child (maybe his wife?) about bringing something in and putting it on the Goddamn counter like I told you. Cringe worthy it was.

Most of these "special snowflakes" get that way because of their mothers.

In my dad, fathers cuffed their brats and gave them the belt, if they spoke before being spoke to.

It kept them from becoming homosexuals.

Homosexuality is caused by domineering mothers and weak fathers. That or being molested as a child.

[quote][R113] you sound childish and ignorant

Sure, r113; it's terribly childish and ignorant to recognize that you can't have much respect for men if you believe most are incapable of running their own lives and instead constantly allow women to push and manipulate them into doing things they don't want to do.

That is, "sure, r114 ..."

R116 what vintage health manual did you read that shit from? My partner had very loving parents and his father was his best buddy growing up and he's a homosexual.

You are quite correct, R113, but you don't seem to realize how dim-witted our misogynist trolls are. They don't realize how badly their attitudes reflect on straight men, and they also firmly believe that all women are the same. In his tiny mind, if one woman is manipulative and evil, ALL women are manipulative and evil!

Personally, I suspect he'd give anything to be a woman. He'd show those bitches how it ought to be done!

My best friend loves his children ... but he doesn't like them

He tries to be a good father. He is the first parent to volunteer for school field trips. He attends every Little League game and piano recital. He will give up a vacation day to stay home with a sick kid.

However, he is miserable at the piano recital or Little League game; he cannot wait to leave. He hated reading bedtime stories. He dreads teaching his children how to drive.

He said that he thought fatherhood would come easily to him, but it didn't. He cannot wait for his children to leave for college and/or the house.

Don't get me wrong. His kids are well-fed, clothed and well cared for. Their college funds are maxed out But given his way, my friend probably wouldn't want to spend any more time around his children than necessary.

Does he feel impatient, R121? What is it? I feel like parents don't have sufficient time to rest or be alone. I guess extended family helped in the past (and were probably molesting them, lol). It seems alien to me to blame a child or make them feel like shit just for existing.

R65 Yes, 99%. Or are you suggesting there is a much bigger percentage of stay-at-home dads than 1%? And it does fuck up your theory because if the dad is not much present in the children's lifes anyway he can hardly be the one to neglect them for example. The fact is that most fathers hardly see their kids during the week, maybe on Sundays at best and that still 17% are acting alone maltreating their kids in that few hours a week is shocking.

R107 Manipulate into having children? Man, you are have lost touch with reality if you ever had it. It is often the men who want to have children desperately. And then are overwhelmed by even the little time they have to spend with them and the responsibility because they have low stress-tolerance. Must be some kind of primal drive to produce offsping and spread their genes.

[quote] I guess extended family helped in the past (and were probably molesting them, lol)

R122, That's not funny, it's terrible. But it cracked me up

Asking your kid to be quiet is one thing. Telling his daughter to shut up in front of other people is another. This guy is mean.

A friend of mine was nitpicking, critical and unaffectionate to his kids when they were growing up. He is very shocked and hurt that now they are older they have drifted away and want very little to do with him (although he knows perfectly well why). I tried to ask him to be kinder to the children back when they were little and he told me to mind my own business. The memory eats at him today.

Lately he is talking about divorcing his wife so he can have another kid or set of kids and take another chance at fatherhood. The damage is done -- leave it alone.

"I tried to ask him to be kinder to the children back when they were little and he told me to mind my own business. The memory eats at him today."

Betcha he doesn't remember your saying that nor does he feel that he is to blame for the way the kids are distant from him now. They have a problem. My father's mother had 2 sons. Toward the end of her life she used to say (in terms of being taken care of) "I wish I had had daughters." She never understood that the fact that they didn't want anything to do with her had nothing to do with the fact that they were sons not daughters.

[quote] And girls get the spit up the ass just like the boys. Abuse of children by the parents does not discriminate based on gender. Only possibly based on favored children

We had a thread here a couple years ago about families with a favored child and abused children. That must be a really fucked up situation to have a sibling treated like gold while the other child/children are abused or mistreated

You ain't kidding.

"I tried to ask him to be kinder to the children back when they were little and he told me to mind my own business. The memory eats at him today."

"Betcha he doesn't remember your saying that nor does he feel that he is to blame for the way the kids are distant from him now."

He does remember it (we had versions of this conversation several times over the years) and has referred to it in a half-sorrowful half-resentful way. He dimly knows that he bears some blame for the childrens' distance and goes back and forth between remorse and making bitter, snarky cracks about them the same way he did when they lived in the house.

The children were always quiet, stoic, and wary in his presence. They got out very young. They are out on their own, far away, without money or connections. He worries about them now too.

Being mean to your children can come back to you in a way that will make you very unhappy.

"That must be a really fucked up situation to have a sibling treated like gold while the other child/children are abused or mistreated."

Welcome to MY life. And my sister's.

My dad is a total asshat. He dotes on my little brother until it's ridiculous. Buys him houses, cars, funnels him cash whenever he needs it. Even keeps my little brother out of jail. My brother actually lost the family business because of dad's inability to realize my brother was not competent enough to handle things and also had a meth problem.

My dad is worth a couple of million, and little bro gets it all. Why? According to mom, when brother was born dad said "This one is mine." End of story.

Dad used to beat me senseless, drag me around the house by my hair beating me in the face, and the psychological damage has been great. As a kid, I had nightmares where he was a vampire who raped and killed women. It was a recurring dream.

I always wanted a closer relationship with him, but he wouldn't have any of it.

Today, he uses the temptation of money to try and manipulate me and sis into doing what he wants, but after she and I verified that we're outta the will? Fuck him. He doesn't know we know, of course...

R126, does your friend actually enjoy the company of his grown kids, does he claim to love them now? Or does he just think they should go through the motions of family life?

Daddy loved me.

Lately, these types are killing the children and wife, then taking off to live as fugitives. Too bad there isn't an app (yet) that would allow us to find and delete them before any of that happens.

I watch "Nature" and the other animal documentaries on PBS. Lots of animals, whether in the wild, agrarian, or domesticated reject, kill or chase off their offspring.

Our hubristic belief is that we, as humans, somehow are "better" than our fellow animals; nonsense that easily is debunked merely by reading this thread.

Existence is a huge,cosmic,absurd joke.

If you feel I have been spewing a lot of garbage, if you feel that mothers in long term abusive relationships are not getting something out of it like a certain lifestyle or money, if you feel they don't often claim martyr status, if you feel that mothers who cloak themselves in religious piety when their husbands abuse them and their children are saints, if you feel that mothers never lie and are never manipulative when they tell their children they love them, if you feel that children don't blame both parents when one is abusive over a period of time, if you need academic and scholarly studies to detail all this for you then you are very lucky.

You have no idea.

[quote] Asking your kid to be quiet is one thing. Telling his daughter to shut up in front of other people is another. This guy is mean

If he or any parent treats their child like that in public, can you imagine how they treat them at home? My brother used to play little league baseball when he was a kid and some of the fathers treated their kids like garbage. Everyone always felt so bad for the kids when the dads would yell and humiliate them in public. No one would say anything and everyone looked down at the ground. It was as if we were all in shock or numb from what we just experienced. Just thinking about it now (30 yrs later) makes me feel like I just witnessed it

Children are a man's treasure, to be cherished and loved.

R50 I think you may be my brother.

A lot of this is caused by a parental expectation that their children will be smaller versions of their adult selves. That no child has more than half your genes, and you don't get to pick which ones, doesn't seem to occur to them.

Furthermore ALL kids are undeveloped compared to adults. Even John Stuart Mill and Mozart were bratty.

Nobody's denying that the relationships you keep posting about exist, R134, we are just aware that there are other kinds of sick relationships in the world, and that not all women behave that way. That's why everyone is piling on you, BTW, your insistence that all women are the same. Believing that makes you an idiot.

And is the Datalounge broken? All I'm seeing are the threads on my threadwatcher.

Some mothers hate their sons, ya know.

I do not condone bad parenting and shitty fathers. But small children are EXHAUSTING to be around: selfish, loud, needy little vacuums.

I'm so glad I never had kids, and never will. I cannot imagine coming home to that at the end of a busy day.

More people should choose NOT to parent.

I don't know if you are responding to me when you mentioned 134. I am 136 with all the posts. I have never tried to paint all women with one brush.

I am talking about abusive long term relationships when all responsibility is heaped on one parent often the nightmare from hell fathers.

My own very catholic grandmother, who god knows how raised 5 daughters during the depression and WW2 in a narrow railroad flat who according to my mother in the only instance when she remembers my grandfather striking her mother, rounded on him in such a way that you would have thought all the thunder in heaven had struck him.

He never did it again.

126 here.

The children have moved to other states, one across the country and one over 400 miles away, and rarely call or email. They did not answer his Facebook friend requests. They have not returned for a holiday in over a year and a half (the girl came for Christmas alone, was quiet at family gatherings, and left the next day).

My friend knows very little about their employment, living situation or relationships. And I think it makes him very sad, angry, and even a little afraid.

Please put the letter r before your post number for ease of reference.

R148 = nasty

Wow,reading these posts is like reading my own childhood stories. My father was an ex marine,very good looking,6'2 all American beefcake,and a raging narcissist. he only married my mother because she got pregnant with my older brother (they still did that in the 50s) and there were THREE other women pregnant at the same time ! Mom,being beautiful,beat out the other bitches and lordy mae,did she have PLENTY of time to regret it. He resnted having to marry her,he resented having to support her,and when she got pregnant with me 3 months after my brother,he resented me before I was even born. And it showed immediately. He never was loving or kind to me,yet my older brother ( jock,typical redneck) was treated like a God. Id wear $5 tennis shoes from the discount store while my older brother had the latest shoes (for his "sports") all the extra money went to my brothers activities while my granny had to pay for my boy scouts ($5 a month). I was very bookish and when I was around 9,my father FOBADE any books in the house as he felt I spent too much time reading and not being a "real" boy. he was alcoholic,abusive and beat me and my mother,but never touched my older brother (or younger one who came along when I was 10 ).And when my youngest brother came I literally ceased to exist to my father. he barely spoke to me except to belittle me for whatever. My mother was terrified of him,but catholic and very old school so she never interceded.My life was pure hell,till I hit around 13 and started rebelling and doing exactly what I wanted,including fighting back when he hit me or my mom. Long story short,I hated him and he hated me,but the last few years of his life we had an armed truce because of my mother. When he died,no one was more surprised than I (and my family) that he left me $300,000 ! My dad always made killer money (engineer) but we had the worst house,wore the cheapest clothes and lived like we were paupers. I remember getting cast off furniture from relatives and being so ashamed,meanwhile dad is spending money on HIS hobbies like it was water. Mom buying us clothes out of goodwill,as he flies home from hong Kong with a dozen silk shirts tailored for him. When he died,we were astonished on how much money he left mother,who immediately went on a spending spree of gigantic proportions ! He doted on my 2 brothers,and out of all my complaints,as a child that hurt mew the worst. I grew up feeling no self esteem. Im glad he left memoney,Im glad he was nicer towards the end of his life,but Im not sorry hes gone.

You earned it, R151.

"I just wanted to make a clean go of things. I figured the best way to start over was to wipe out the past. Is that so wrong ?"

Women are childish and immature solely to be able to relate to and raise young children, in the modern age women have abandoned their role in favor of materialism and now men are blamed for women's selfishness

[quote]all the extra money went to my brothers activities while my granny had to pay for my boy scouts ($5 a month).

I was thrown out of the Boy Scouts. I was doing really great until I go up to the level of 'Webelo'. I got confused; went down from there ......

R154 obviously did not read any of the many stories of MEN treating children badly.

r151, r61 here. You could be describing my father, except for the inheritance part. Perhaps this is more common than we think?

I think our fathers were the last remnants of a different world R61/R157. A world where the man was king and his word was law.My dads father (who died when I was very young) was allegedly a bastard of the highest caliber. Id like to think my father left me money as an "Im sorry" but I later found out it was because he had done his will in the 70s and never changed it. I remember as a little one watching him and YEARNING with all my heart for him to love me the way he loved my brother ,then later loved my younger brother.My granny one time told me that the family always knew I was gay,even as a toddler,so I think his hatred was because of that. Yet while he doted on my brothers,they didn't really live better than me because of it. We still lived in the same shitty house,still ate the same shitty food,wore the same shitty clothes etc. I think at the root of it all my father just didn't want to be married period.

R154 is obviously mentally ill, assuming he's not just trolling for trolling's sake. That kind of fuckwittery is just too retarded to be funny as a decent attempt at trolling.

[quote] Women are childish and immature solely to be able to relate to and raise young children, in the modern age women have abandoned their role in favor of materialism and now men are blamed for women's selfishness

No. In the modern age men aren't able to provide for their families. And their wives have to work because these men simply can't support the families they've created. And that is a separate issue. We are talking about men that hate their kids

R151: That might have been an interesting story, but no one will read it because of the way you formatted it.

Learn punctuation and spelling. Learn spacing. Learn paragraphing and leave spaces between paragraphs.

Look at how the rest of us on DL type long posts.

R161 = Church Lady

So I'll never be Hemmingway ,R161 ? I'll live,and Im guessing you will too !

Lots of man hating going on here...R159 sounds like a bitter lesbian, grow up sweetie

Still not convinced by R154's baseless and ill-articulated theory (women are immature, selfish, and materialistic and that men get blamed for their shortcomings...or something like that).

Neither a lesbian, a man-hater nor female R154 / R164. Just a growing dislike of you, your idiocy, your hatred of anything sane, your vacuous whining and your obvious mommy issues. I don't expect you're capable of growing up at this late stage of your lif.

You've demonstrated your fuckwitted idiocy all over again - someone calls you out on your stupidity so you instantly shriek "lesbian!!!", thus proving the point.

Take your retarded shrieking and shove it as far as it will go up your rancid smelly anal fissures, OK sweetie?

R166 darling you are Insane lol, you must be a typical fugly frau who can't get a man....snuggle up with your cats, a long nap is what you need sweetie m'kay

Very sad stories on this thread. I liked my father at times and appreciated his intelligence, but never really trusted him. My best to all of you who had a father who mistreated or ignored you.

Yet, the Repugs and their ilk, along with those conservative a-holes across the globe, would rather let children have a father like that than allow gay men to have children.

I have never understood how Vincente Minnelli could have left his daughter with an unfit mother such as Judy Garland. He really must of hated Liza.

Ditto Sid Luft with his two children with Garland.

Minnelli could have afforded boarding school for Liza and Luft probably could have too for Joey and Lorna

Yes, Judy loved her children and they loved her. But the sad reality is that love isn't alway enough. Someone should have stepped in and put the children's needs first

167 - You got owned big time, not to mention your 'comeback' was weak, predictable and boring. Deal with it.

R170, if either of Judy's babaydaddies had tried to take the kids away from her, it would have been a massively publicized court case and dirty laundry made public, or paying Judy off to avoid a massively publicized court case. And I don't know about Luft, but if Minelli had gone to court and accused Judy of being an addict, she could have responded by calling him gay. If the judge believed her, she would have won custody, and if the public believed her, Minelli's career would have been over.

She did come to a point where she would have give up majority custody for (drug) money, and IMHO it's a pity that neither ex-husband ponied up for the sake of his child/ren.

R171 is our unhinged Frau troll....get on your meds sweetie lol

173 is definitely 167. Both predictable.

Hey, why don't you try 'You're just a troll living in your Mom's basement' or something equally original?

Ha ha ha ha proper little tit him, got owned by one poster, owned again by another.

Fat twat at r174, please put the letter r before the number of the post you are referencing.

r175 Sorry, my fingers are fat - it is extremely difficult to just press one button at a time.

OP your description of your not-friend and his abysmal parenting sound just like my father who is an asshole of high degree.

I was just like that little girl in your post, just wanting love & affirmation and getting the cold shoulder from Dearest Daddy or looked at like shit on his shoe. I adored him as a kid but by 12 or 13 years old had learned he was an emotional cripple and an empty person only filled with venom. He’s still like that now. He can pretend to be a charming, considerate guy in front of others but then you get him alone and he’s a mess of violent moods and nasty attitude. I can’t stand him and I believe the feeling is mutual, but we grit our teeth for my Mom.

I sometimes wish desperately that he had walked out and divorced my mother back when I was younger; perhaps that way I’d have had enjoyable highschool years in an upbeat household, where I was comfortable to sleep with both eyes open at night, or to bring friends over to stay and such. I made the mistake of moving back home after college to recover from depression and I regret that decision too, as he’s gotten worse with age.

I would love nothing more than to cut him out for good, or to have him drop dead in the next couple years of something instantaneous & painless (I could really use his money rn, but I don’t want to nurse him and as he’s only just 60 he won’t be allowed to just die). Alas, as it is I don’t have enough money to move far enough away from my parents’ town on a permanent basis, and my mother won’t divorce the bastard.

The one good thing about this whole experience is that I grew up as a young bisexual woman understanding how awful almost all straight men are, and that I should avoid them no matter what if I want to keep my freedom, sanity, happiness, self-worth etc. I have never wasted my time on a man yet, so thanks Daddy!

My dickhead brother treats his middle daughter how OP describes.

She once tried to get into his good graces by showing him an interesting leaf she found and presented it to him in the kitchen. He grunted and tossed it into the sink.

It broke my heart.

Maybe they are horrible, awful, children that no father could possibly ever love.

I hope and I’m sure you’re her attentive Uncle, R177. That alone can heal damage.

[quote]Fathers who really hate their kids

AKA, fathers.

R180 knows the score.

Most fathers are reluctant. They have a biological urge but that’s all it is. Nurture is an alien concept to the majority of them.