It's tragic that "Designing Women" is all but forgotten...

It's simply because Betty White is still on the radar with Hot in Cleveland. The cast of DW has sort of "disappeared." And Dixie Carter is gone. I much preferred DW, personally, too.

"It's a Christmas tree skirt, Bernice. You don't wear it."

"Oh good. I like to never got this thing on."

Oh please, DW was a rip of GG. We all know it.

[quote]...while the much inferior "Golden Girls" is still wildly popular.

WEBMASTER! PLEASE!

[quote]The cast of DW has sort of "disappeared."

And the cast of GG didn't?

All four actresses had MAJOR stage experience and it showed on-screen.

That is where Designing Women was weak, the lack of stage experience those four ladies possessed in comparison to Golden Girls and their stage techniques.

You just can't compare.

R5 you are right, you can't compare. DW was better in every way.

I can never forgive the Bloodworth-Thomason cabal for their Mary Jo Tit Monster episode. So demeaning to women.

Jesus in filthy knickers, I was watching Designing Women on TVGN just the other day and what a misandrist bag of shit it was. And I'm a woman! Nothing but a bunch of old crumbly hens screeching about how they hate men. No thanks, at least The GG were only bitchy about each other but would still go out and get laid once in awhile. Other than Suzanne, the other women needed a good old fashioned dicking to shut them the hell up.

OMG [R1] - I love you - you pick the most obscure, yet balls out funniest line to perfectly sum up that series. And second only to the most moving episode of when Suzanne goes to her class reunion. Hysterically funny, and so moving all in 22 minutes. If Delta Burke does nothing else in her career, that episode should be shown in acting classes to show what range really is for an actor.

I did a search and this thread has already been discussed. Though a lot of shade was thrown at Golden Girls, the other thread showed some love for Designing Women. The problem discussed was the cast change and the writing on Designing Women caused major shakeups that in Syndication would cause the show to look unhinged and unrecognizable, so its the producers fault. They screwed up their show and their legacy!!!! Golden Girls will be around 50 years from now and still be indulged. Its just that good!

This will not end well...

I still love Designing Women.

The tale about the night the lights went out in Georgia was one of the best moments ever in the history of sitcoms.

I love Designing Women also. Might not beat Golden Girls, but it was still watchable.

Alice Ghostly was hilarious.

I even liked the Allison Sugarbaker season. Totally underrated, and Julia Duffy was totally scapegoated. Her career never recovered.

If they can put a man on the moon, we can put one on you. I say we can do it!!!

Not sure what really happened that season on DW, but Julia Duffy got along fine with the cast of "Newhart" and vice versa.

Delta's speech at her high school reunion can make me cry, even today. The most touching, perhaps, moment of the series other than Mary Jo's speech about her "sweet funny friend who is dying" (Tony Goldwyn) of AIDS and they have to plan his funeral. ("Killing All the Right People.")

Suzanne's speech is just heart melting. "When I look around this room tonight, I don't see receding hairlines and the beginnings of pot-bellies and crow's feet... I just see all the beautiful faces of old girlfriends and sweet young boys who used to stand on my front porch and try to kiss me goodnight." Pass the kleenex.

Some white girl.

If only the execrable final season with Judith Ivey had never happened. Alice Ghostley got some great material, but everything else was just awful.

GG couldn't touch DW when it came to those very real, poignant and touching moments.

[quote]GG couldn't touch DW when it came to those very real, poignant and touching moments.

"Not Another Monday"?

Thanks, OP. Of course Designing Women is better. The original four: Dixie Carter, Delta Burke, Annie Potts and Jean Smart were outstanding. And the writing was far superior on Designing Women. The show was hilarious and endures far more indelibly, at least in my mind, than the Golden Girls ever will.

GG did have some depth the first season and some nice poignant moments, but by the second season it degenerated into a landscape of thin plots full of cheap insults and one-liners.

DW was so great those first few seasons when Delta and Jean Smart were still there.

"Mary Jo, you're never gonna trap a man carting around a 20 pound bag of dog food and a big box of Kotex!"

I love you, OP!

DW was always my favorite, but I'll say this:

DW had four great years and then started to plummet in quality really fast (though some of the later episodes were still funny). The series creator wrote almost all of the first three years, and it shows in the quality.

GG didn't reach the heights for me that DW did, but it was also relatively consistently enjoyable, and that was probably what makes it so well remembered.

Also, if you were a kid at home with the babysitter in the 80s on a Saturday, you probably watched it. Whereas not a lot of kids were watching DW at 9:30 on a Monday.

Florida isn't really the South, R27. And Rose, Dorothy and Sophia weren't Southern.

HEY SUZANNE, HOWS THAT DIET CUMMING ALONG? STILL EATING THEM CAKES AND PIES?

If that's not Suzanne Sugarbaker, I'll eat my desk!!

Because, Mary Jo, I love knowledge. As a matter of fact, I yearn for it

I'll admit that DW does have a slightly more dated look than GG, in terms of hair and clothes, but it's a very intelligent show, transcending sitcom many times, and much better written than GG. I know, I know...MARY!

I think Susan Harris was very much involved in GG its first season, and it does show. The show is less "jokey" and the characters and their relationships seem much more real compared to subsequent seasons. In those later seasons, it's never a surprise to see Harris as writer or co-EP (which probably means she tweaked a weak script) in the better episodes.

Tragic!!

[quote] I just see all the beautiful faces of old girlfriends and sweet young boys who used to stand on my front porch and try to kiss me goodnight.

How conceited. She claims both boys and girls were all lined up on her front porch looking for a kiss?

Designing Women was not funny. At all.

[quote] I'll admit that DW does have a slightly more dated look than GG

Uh, what? GG is far more dated. That hideous couch, the ladies' wardrobe...ugh. DW has some dated areas but looks much nicer.

[quote] Designing Women was not funny. At all.

Sorry about the stick stuck in your ass.

The cast of Designing Women disappeared?

Jean Smart is a prolific television actress. She has done Frasier, 24 and Samantha Who? to name a few, taking home three Emmys in the process.

Annie Potts also works regularly in television, last seen in the underrated GCB.

Delta has been low profile in recent years, but she also got regular work up until the mid 2000's.

Dixie had a comeback of sorts before her death with a role on Desperate Housewives.

As someone who was only in elementary school when these show were on, as a kid these shows were "old lady" shows to me. As an adult, when I've come across reruns of these shows, and when I've tried to watch them, guess what? They're STILL seem like old lady shows. I also don't understand why shows focused around women appeal to gay men.

I guess you have to be of a certain age...

I will say one thing - GG looks FAR more dated than DW does.

It's really not "all but forgotten".

[quote]Dixie had a comeback of sorts before her death with a role on Desperate Housewives.

She also starred on her own show "Family Law" for 3 seasons.

"I was watching Designing Women on TVGN just the other day and what a misandrist bag of shit it was. And I'm a woman! Nothing but a bunch of old crumbly hens screeching about how they hate men."

Please, you're not a woman, the only people bitching about the non-existant problem of misandry are the men's rights activist trolls. Go back to your Rush Limbaugh fan club, m'kay.

I still have a massive crush on Dash Goff.

"No thanks, at least The GG were only bitchy about each other but would still go out and get laid once in awhile. Other than Suzanne, the other women needed a good old fashioned dicking to shut them the hell up."

ROFLMAO. Only dumb straight guys think like this. "All of a woman's problems can be cured by sex with me!"

I watched DW from season 1, episode 1. Have always loved it.

One thing that was so impressive (at least looking back) is how defined everything was in the show, even early on. Sometimes a show takes a season or two to gel, but Julia's "Night the lights went out in Georgia" speech was the second episode. THE SECOND EPISODE.

I still remember watching that at my best friend's house. His mom was recording the whole night, too, but when we saw that speech, we just looked at each other, in shock.

We leapt to our feet for sixteen and one-half minutes of uninterrupted thunderous ovation, as flames illuminated our tear-stained faces.

(And side note: we both came out to each other as gay. HUGE surprise.)

I get that some people hated Julia's rants, but I loved them. I loved the chemistry. Though the men vs women episode was a little much.

R48 that's "Dash Goff, The Writer."

Delta did too, apparently. LOL

"I don't know Bernice. It's square fish."

"Excuse me!"

Suzanne Sugarbaker, one of the all-time television greats.

DW had characters. GG had caricatures.

The voices on DW were so annoying. Southern people are supposed to have soft, melodious voices, but the women on DW all sounded like honking gulls being stuck with pins.

While my jock brothers watched Monday Evening Football with our dad, I watched the Kate & Allie, Newhart, Designing Women, and Cagney & Lacey with my mom. Yep, my dad was probably just so proud of his sissy son.

You'vd got that backwards, R54.

And DW was one of the biggest showcases for bad acting in the history of television.

Who acted bad on DW?

Dixie bled all over those speeches. There's one she gives in an episode where she's running for some office. It's one of the most powerful, passionate monologues ever given on television. Julia Sugarbaker was the perfect example of a liberal trying to make sense of a Reagan-Bush era society.

It deserves a pass simply for being one of the first shows to talk about AIDS.

"In those later seasons, it's never a surprise to see Harris as writer or co-EP (which probably means she tweaked a weak script) in the better episodes."

I don't know anything about how the co-executive producer credit corresponds to tweaking. But after Season 1, didn't Harris only write four episodes, and three of them are among the worst in the series (the Rita Moreno Empty Nest pilot, and the two-parter about Dorothy's chronic fatigue syndrome)? The other one is Blanche going through menopause, which is fine but not great.

Her Season 1 scripts aren't my favorite of that season, either. This might sound like heresy, but I think the show was actually better off that she pulled away from it - it hit better heights without her.

Both DW and GG were awful shows. You gays should have been reading instead of watching so much television.

r61 is either Helen Van Patterson-Patton or Barbara Thorndyke.

i found most episodes as too preachy and others have "a very special episode" vibes to it.

GG was and always gonna be more fun to watch.

They're both great shows. I've been re-watching Designing Women recently and really enjoying it. I don't think it's quite as funny as Golden Girls, but it's made me laugh many times, especially thanks to Delta Burke who seemed to get better and better with each passing season. I'm on season 5 now and she's on fire.

I love Julia's fire and brimstone speeches. Dixie Carter could really deliver a monologue.

Delta/Suzanne Sugarbaker and her pig, Noelle.

Suzanne and Anthony having to spend the night together in the motel freezing--and she shot him.

Suzanne refusing to give up her Maude Frizon designer shoes to the bowling alley attendant so that she would wear the rented, "clown" bowling shoes that had the sweat of 60,000 poor people--is CLASSIC.

Love, love, love Designing Women. I enjoyed it tons more than GG, which was a good show but nowhere near DW.

Happy anniversary, Lois and Shimmy.

Black Man Black Man, where have you gone too?

DW was more topical, and thus in more danger of being dated as the years pass.

Murphy Brown was very topical and for young people to see it now, they won't get it. But for those of us who lived through those days, it's fun to watch her bash the crooks who were in political office and hear her refer to the TV news stars of that era.

"This wig makes me look like Jane Wyman."

The OP is obviously a troll who deserves to have his gay card revoked. Any gay man worth his weight in cheesecake knows that The Golden Girls is the far superior, funnier, more iconic show. And it's not just because TGG is a multiple Emmy-winning, oft-quoted show. DW couldn't touch the chemistry from TGG. TGG even came first, and I'd venture to say that DW was a bit of a rip off.

Calm down, Miss R76! "Far superior" - have you seen the later years of GG?

Both shows are wonderful but to say "far superior" means you should have your gay card revoked.

R61, "you gays," really?

Take your homophobic ass out of here, you useless piece of fuck. Sorry you're bitter because your momma was a diseased ho.

I've seen every episode of TGG, R77, and some of the funniest episodes are in the last season.

[quote]have you seen the later years of GG?

The later years of Designing Women were even worse. I mean, the last season was so embarrassingly awful that I felt bad for Annie Potts (who got stuck with plotlines such as seeing the face of Elvis on her shovel). They did give Bernice some funny lines, but everyone and everything else was so unfunny. I guess at that point Linda was busy with her other sitcoms and celebrating with the Clintons and left all the DW work to hacks.

[quote]BJ Poteet was a great character

They made her the reasonable one and turned Julia into a cartoon character that season. I wonder why they didn't bring Jackee back (to replace Duffy)? They set it up perfectly as the end of season 6, and then went with Judith Ivey.

I think the whole premise of DD was to see if Delta Burke was fat or skinny.

DD?

Delta gained pretty steadily on DW.

"and some of the funniest episodes are in the last season."

I'm a huge fan of the show, but the last season and a half of GG's does not hold up well at all. The show becomes too mean spirited and the characters one dimensional. I think there's about four or five episodes that I like the last year.

And the finale is terrible.

"they wanted to give Dorothy a Cinderella-like ending."

Cinderella didn't wear a dress lined with toilet paper rolls. The whole finale felt rushed and uninspired. They should have introduced her suitor earlier in the season. Of course, it didn't help that Bea and Leslie had no chemistry.

I like the earlier seasons because the characters had some heart in between their putdowns. Dorothy pretending to slit Sophia's throat and Sophia pretending she was Rose's husband as a joke just felt like the writers were scraping the bottom. The show jumped the shark with the Miles FBI storyline and never recovered.

I too found DESIGNING WOMEN too preachy. They did a lot of topical and political shows, which I found didactic to the extreme. I also think the delivery fell flat. Oftentimes they gave them too wordy dialog which the women tended to struggle through.

Whoever mentioned the annoying accents is totally right. I tried watching DW two years ago when the episodes were on YouTube and I had to stop partly because their voices/accents were so annoying -- what a bunch of screaming harpies! But I also didn't find it funny. Maybe Suzanne was funny, but the rest were blah. I also couldn't stand Anthony and his annoying impersonations.

The worst episode, for me, was when Charlene's military husband went overseas or something and she had a dream that she was back in the WWII and was awaiting the return of her GI lover. Talk about preachy and cheesily patriotic! I cringed at Mary Jo's line about "This is America and in America you can be anything!" I love my country, too, but that's just blind patriotism.

[quote]The show jumped the shark with the Miles FBI storyline and never recovered.

It was the witness protection program.

Delta Burke was wonderful on DW. She had such range - slapstick, melancholy, serious social commentary ... she did it all so convincingly. I also appreciate how she turned the tables on mainstream media over how weight/mental health issues were being portrayed.

I recently saw a clip from "The View" when Delta was a guest. One of the Youtube comments noted how all of the women were slouching and talking over each other, but that Delta had perfect posture and enunciation. She had an almost regal bearing about her - especially when compared to the likes Rosie, Babwa, Sherri, etc.

[quote]Talk about preachy and cheesily patriotic! I cringed at Mary Jo's line about "This is America and in America you can be anything!" I love my country, too, but that's just blind patriotism.

By the end of the episode, Charlene had learned that the reality of sending a husband off to war was much more devastating than the romanticized Hollywood version. The entire dream sequence was a parody of the blind patriotism both you and the episode disdain.

{quote] Any gay man worth his weight in cheesecake knows that The Golden Girls is the far superior, funnier, more iconic show.

Christ, Mary, people have different tastes.

Get over it.

[quote] Of course, it didn't help that Bea and Leslie had no chemistry.

Leslie was jealous that Bea's cock was bigger.

I prefer DW but I'll agree that it was often preachy and died a slow, painful death over those last 2 seasons. I know the Julia Duffy season has its defenders but I found that year too mean-spirited. I assume there was so much behind-the-scenes bitterness over Delta Burke leaving that the anger just came through on-screen. In the Judith Ivey season, the characters felt more like they had in the past but the audience had given up by then.

One thing I noticed about Suzanne was that she was originally conceived to be this sexpot who lied about her age (a la Blanche Devereaux), but as soon as she got fat she suddenly became frigid and seemed to hate sex. I thought that was such an odd about-face. Rue McClanahan also started her series very svelte and her weight fluctuated throughout the series, but she still maintained her man-hungry persona.

It's true. I sucked cock in every single season.

Scroll to 23:15 to experience WHY DW,to me, is far more amusing and memorable.

As a kid I always sensed DW had a much more palpable "gay" undercurrent.

oops...scroll to 8:51 I meant to say.

Blah! DW and GG are both overrated.

Who cares about either? They were both cheesy bossy sassy women shows that men stayed away rom watching like vampires from garlic. Not exactly dude or youth tv.

I think DW was a better written and acted show, (the original cast anyway) but unfortunately like Murphy Brown much of that humor was based on the politics of the day and as wonderful as it was then those kinds of shows do become dated. As someone pointed out, most young people would have no idea what they were talking about. Actually they should but face it, most of today's young people don't even care about politics that are happening right now.

There were just a few DW episodes I would have no desire to see again as I thought they stunk the first time...the one when Charlene gives birth, the one where some hillbillies dance with the women, keeping them captive or some shit that I really can't remember. Other than those couple I don't remember any really bad episodes where as GG has many that are too silly to watch again.

[quote]those kinds of shows do become dated.

It's the same with Broadway musicals. That's why shows like "The Sound of Music," "South Pacific," and "Chicago" haven't been seen in decades. All dated. Young people don't know about WWII and gangsters.

I can't remember the exact exchange but I loved Suzanne going on and on about Miss Valdosta Feed and Grain.

I forgot to mention that I hated the season of the GG where Dorothy got back together with Stan. That entire plot line made no sense and was so out of character for Dorothy.

And you have to hand it to Dixie Carter, in real life she was a hard core republican, playing such a liberal.

Every time I watch those DW episodes I'm reminded how much I HATED Anthony most of the time.

We hope you're kidding, R106

Oh, and Filthy Rich was a hoot, ahead of its time, and not the agenda show DW was. (It also let Ms. Dixie do some memorable rants.)

I did love DW, agendas and all.

R111. Ann Wedgeworth of "Filthy Rich" was a friggin hoot. Linda Bloodworth Thomason wrote that show too.

Delta Burke and Dixie Carter were also "Filthy Rich" cast members. "Designing Women" came a few years later.

"Filthy Rich" video:

"I forgot to mention that I hated the season of the GG where Dorothy got back together with Stan. That entire plot line made no sense and was so out of character for Dorothy."

I don't agree that it was out of character. The extreme swings of her ambivalent relationship with Stan had been present all the way back to the Season 1 episode when they slept together. It was pretty consistently portrayed through the series run that, co-existing with the anger and exasperation and bitterness she clearly felt (and often expressed) towards Stan, there were also definitely feelings of love and tenderness and bondedness that she still had with him, and that would ebb and flow at various points.

Bea Arthur's deadpan sarcasm and death glares alone make GG the superior show. Add to it the many, many quotable lines and memorable scenes from GG (condoms Rose!, that's what the crow said, Sophia's sharp tongue, Blanche's slut stories, St. Olaf, etc.), and it's easy to see how GG is the more revered show.

Remember the episode where Kim Zimmer guest starred as Charlene's battered cousin Belva? This is after she left GL. Linda Bloodworth Thompson was a huge GL fan, and especially of Kim and her portrayal of Reva, and wrote the character especially for her.

[quote] Not exactly dude or youth tv.

Uh, which no one here would give three fucks about.

{quote] Remember the episode where Kim Zimmer guest starred as Charlene's battered cousin Belva?

It was Mavis that Kim played. And yes, I remember it!

Geez, I thought it was Belva. I definitely remember a Belva character on a VSE. That ring a bell for any fans?

Belva McPherson, a rich, snobby acquaintance of Mary Jo. Played by Ann Dusenberry.

Everyone on this thread needs to spend more time reading and less time dissecting dreck.

Thank you, r118.

I remember reading at the time that LBT wanted Kim Zimmer to be the wife of Burt Reynolds on Evening Shade, but CBS nixed that and wanted a name..Marilu Henner, who was terrible on the show and didn't seem the least bit southern.

That would explain why Kim left GL, R121. She probably thought she was getting her own show. Shame CBS put the kibosh on it.

DW was watchable for exactly one season. After that, it became a countdown to one of Julia's tiresome rants. And by the time the show ended, it was totally wretched.

{quote] GG was watchable for exactly one season. After that, it became a countdown to one of Sophia's smart ass remarks. And by the time the show ended, it was totally wretched.

Fixed that for you, R123.

"Thank you, Ray Don....." The ultimate putdown diatribe.

[italic]The Golden Girls[/italic] was more transcendent because it drew in people who normally wouldn't be interested in senior women. I'm not referring to gay men. The topical humor in sitcoms of the 1970s pretty much died out with that decade; but [italic]The Golden Girls[/italic] was socially groundbreaking. It was captaivating. Nothing of this kind had been done before on American television.

The Miami, Florida women lived together out of economic necessity. The situations, particularly with their backgrounds (like with their adult children), helped make it intriguing. The difference in whether they originated - Sophia from Italy; Dorothy from New York; Rose from Minnesota; and, the only southerner, Blanche from neighboring Georgia - opened up these Golden Girls with golden comparisons and common bonds. That three of them - Rose, Blanche, and Sophia - were widows. That one of them - Dorothy - suffered through divorce which has felt, for many, even worse than death.

[italic]Golden Girls[/italic] had cross appeal. Children were intrigued to find how lively the over-60 women were. That their lives didn't revolve around family visits. Adults, from their 20s to 50s and (apparently) still a part of the active workforce, had their perceptions of old people changed for the better. Their eyes became opened.

[italic]Designing Women[/italic] stood on its own for having all four of its principal originals - which included Annie Potts's Mary Jo Shively and Jean Smart's Charlene Frazier - hail from the south. The series covered politics mixed in with social issues. One example that stood out was that it seemed that Dixie Carter's Julia Sugarbaker foresaw Bill Clinton's rise in American politics. With the series having aired from 1986 to 1993, it was very timely. This was around the time of the Clarence Thomas-vs.-Anita Hill hearings. In addition, the series' best episode, "They Shoot Fat Women, Don't They," covered the unrealistic expectations placed on beauty, what beauty is, and what time does to and/or for people. This was the eppy that garnered Delta Burke's Suzanne Sugarbaker the first of her two Emmy nominations for best actress. The beauty of that episode was not only with Suzanne achieving peace with herself; it was the sisterly help she received from Julia, who told Suzanne to put into perspective where other people are truly coming from: that people put on appearances for appearances' sake. That they are not truly happy people because they can't be; they fear actually looking at themselves for who they are. Another example was "Killing All the Right People," which brought to light AIDS and how people react.

Both series are gems. I think [italic]The Golden Girls[/italic] stands out over [italic]Desiging Women[/italic] in the minds of more people just because of the timeline. That it premiered one year earlier than [italic]Designing Women[/italic]. With [italic]Designing Women[/italic] the common link to [italic]The Golden Girls[/italic] was the sophisticated adult humor. That the topics were timely. That both had social appeal.

DW was a rip off of TGG. It was TGG in Georgia. TGG was a runaway hit, and it remains a pop culture staple. Many shows featuring female leads have been compared to it (227 were the black GG, Hot In Cleveland is the new GG, etc.). It won Emmys and Golden Globes. All four leads were named Disney Legends. The Queen of England loved it, there were several spinoffs, and there are various foreign versions. Whenever you turn on your TV, TGG is likely to be on. TGG is the clear winner.

[quote]Designing Women stood on its own for having all four of its principal originals - which included Annie Potts's Mary Jo Shively and Jean Smart's Charlene Frazier - hail from the south.

Charlene was from Poplar Bluff, MO. While it's close to the Arkansas border, it's not usually considered "the South."

TGG makes me hurl.

TGG is for stupid, simple people who laugh at vaudeville jokes that have been tired since the Year One.

DW was more sophisticated and complex, so of course dumb, unsophisticated people would not care for it very much.

I agree OP, all GG had on it was consistency. It was consistently slightly above average. An accomplishment of a sort, but DW's best episodes were far better imo. I collect entire series by downloading all the episodes, and keep them stored to replay whenever I want. I never keep every episode, I go through and delete the ones I don't like. I have about 50 DW episodes I enjoy watching at least once a year. Delta Burke, Annie Potts, Dixie Carter and Alice Ghostley were all exceptional comedic actresses.

R129 is pissy because his favorite is a forgotten relic and was always in TGGs shadow.

R131 is pissy because he has the same hideous couch that TGG had in its living room, and because his tired, fifth level Blanche Devereaux imitation never has and never will pick up the young jocks at the bar.

Designing Women wins. No contest.

GG was good. Designing Women was great.

Designing Women for me! (until Delta & Jean left.)

CHARLENE: "Julia! I can't imagine you at a keg party! I mean . . . y'know, you have so much class." t JULIA: "That's just the point, Charlene. If you have class, you have it. It doesn't matter where you are or who you're with . . . and I have to go now because Craig is getting ready to drink out of the funnel."

Oh I hate it when you tell me to sit down. Tell me standing up! WHAT? What? Monette is a man?

I never watched the GG.

The minute DW had "Killing All the Right People" I was a fan. One of the first mainstream television shows dealing with AIDS.

"IF God was handed our sexually transmitted diseases as punishment, WE WOULD ALL BE down at the free clinic!"

R137, that wasn't the quote. Julia directed it at the homophobic woman slandering their dying friend. She used the word [italic]you[/italic].

And it was the way she said it.

YOU would be at the free clinic ALL the time!

Julia read bitches for FILTH. I personally aspire to be Julia Sugarbaker in my interactions. When I write a mean letter to the gas company for fucking up our bill, I have Julia's voice in my head.

When I argue with people in person, I always remember to use their name as much as I can. Julia always did that.

"And clearly, Mr. So-and-so, you do not have a firm grasp on the situation...."

What a glorious BIATCH!

DW's Anthony was like someone out of Amos 'n Andy, about fifty years behind the times in race relations. IT WAS EMBARRASSING.

We get it, R133/R134. And guess what? You're still wrong.

DW women never did any work. For that alone it was a bad show.

Sorry, but Linda Bloodsworth-Thomason's DW had nothing on Susan Harris's TGG. It came a year later, and was never as funny or groundbreaking. Another poster mentioned TGG's award wins and impact on pop culture, and when I did a little investigating I found that TGG's pop culture influence is, indeed, indelible. Never knew that the Queen was a fan or that there were foreign versions of the show.

I remember when Bea, Betty and Rue did that "Clueless" skit at the beginning of one of the MTV Movie Awards shows one year.

GG also kept the same cast throughout its entire seven-year run, which is another plus.

Some memorable GG quotes:

Rose: You know what I think? Blanche: No, do you? • Sophia: When I turn my hearing-aid up to ten, I can hear a canary break wind in Lauderdale! • Dorothy: You'll have to excuse my mother; she suffered a slight stroke a few years ago, which rendered her totally annoying. • Sophia: Rose, I need some advice too. Rose: You need advice from ME? Sophia: Yeah, frightening, isn't it. • Blanche: I never had to pay a penny in backtaxes. I have a way with auditors. The last time I was audited I even got money back from the government. Sophia: Blanche, it's not a refund when the auditor leaves two twenties on your nightstand. • Rose [about Miles]: He makes me feel foolish. I don't even feel comfortable telling him St. Olaf stories. Dorothy: I want to know exactly what he said to make you feel that way. • Sophia [Rose fixed a dinner]: Cabbage she serves me, in ten minutes I could be sky writing! • Blanche: Dorothy, when I'm feeling low self-esteem, I do a little exercise. I say my name and then three positive things about myself. I'm Blanche Devereaux. I'm beautiful, men find me desirable, and people want to be my friend. Dorothy, now you try it. Dorothy: Ah, I don't want to. Blanche: Come on. Please. Dorothy: Okay. I'm Dorothy Zbornak, I'm beautiful, men find me desirable and people want to be my friend. Blanche: Oh no, I think I confused you there. I meant three things that apply to you. Like, I'm Dorothy Zbornak, I'm a good speller, and uh... I'm very prompt, and umm... Well, there's no law that says there have to be three good things. Dorothy: Um... I just thought of a third one: she can break a friend's neck like a twig. • Rose: Dorothy, you're the smart one, and Blanche, you're the sexy one, and Sophia, you're the old one, and I'm the nice one. Everybody always likes me. Sophia: The old one isn't so crazy about you. • [Rose enters the kitchen and tells about the date she had with Ernie, who was, until the night with Rose, impotent] Blanche: With Ernie? With Ernie?! Rose, I'm so happy for you! Dorothy: Blanche, calm down! It was a roll in the hay, not a walk on the moon! • Sophia: There's just something I don't like about him. I can't put my finger on it, but if I did, I'd have to wash it. • [Dorothy and Sophia come home after Sophia's best friend's funeral] Sophia: Well, I guess Phyllis Glutman will be my new best friend. Dorothy: I thought you hated Phyllis Glutman. Sophia: I do, but at the rate my friends are going, I won't have to spend too much time with her. • [Dorothy and Rose are apologizing to Blanche after a fight] Rose: Blanche, you should make us eat dirt, make us grovel, give us the silent treatment... Dorothy: Rose, if you give us the silent treatment, I will eat dirt. • Sophia: Dorothy, why don't we bond? Dorothy: We're from before bonding and quality time. • Blanche: Is it okay to sleep with a man on the first date? Sophia: It's a sin. I don't care what anyone says, it's a sin. But I'd go back to eating fish on Fridays if his holiness gave that one the green light. • Dorothy: You know what's young to me now? Forty. Suddenly forty is young. Blanche: Oooh... Aren't you sweet. • Rose [enters from the kitchen with a pan in her hands]: Do you want to see my vanskap kaka? Sophia: As long as I don't have to show you mine. • Blanche: Mel makes me feel young and beautiful and special. When we're together we laugh a lot. Sophia: Why wouldn't you, you're both naked. • Rose [about a colleague at work]: I know if he got to know me he'd like me. Sophia: Why, I got to know you and I don't like you. Rose: You just say that. Sophia: Repeatedly. • Dorothy: You know what your trouble is? Blanche: Of course not. • Sophia: When I feel bad, I have to take my mind off it. There's only one thing that does that to me. Dorothy: Cooking a big meal... Sophia: No, making love in a closet. • Rose: Tell me, is it possible to love two men at the same time? Blanche: Set the scene, have we been drinking? • Buzz: Rosie, I never should have left you forty years ago. I can still see you standing on the platform as the train started to roll by. Remember, Rose? You were walking alongside, tears rolling down your cheeks. When the train picked up a little speed, you started to run. Suddenly you were out of sight. It was very painful for me. Rose: For me too. I ran face first into the crossing-signal. • Rose [on St. Olaf]: Ned was sort of the town idiot. Sophia: When, on your days off? • Blanche: My sister has turned into a deceitful old woman whose only pleasure is in hurting people. — No offence, Sophia. • Rose: Dorothy, a man called for you while you were out. Sophia: Finally. Now we can break out that bottle of champagne we've been saving. Dorothy: Ma-a... Sophia: Come on, Dorothy, we might not get another chance. Dorothy: Oh sure we will. We can just serve it at... the wake. • Blanche: Oh Dorothy, I just talked to somebody back home, and they are doing the most horrible thing! They are tearing down the most important building in Blanche Devereaux's family history. Dorothy: Oh my God, they're tearing down Mattress World. Blanche: Even worse than that. They are tearing down the place where I spent my happiest moments as a child. Dorothy: Oh I'm sorry, Blanche. They're tearing down Boys Town. • Rose [entering cheerfully]: Sooo, who's the luckiest girl in the history of the world! Sophia: Well, it wasn't your mother. • Dorothy: Oh come on, Ma, that's superstitious nonsense. You know, step on a crack, break your mother's back, it doesn't work. — I know. • Sophia: Blanche, a terrible thing has happened to you. But when life does something like this, there are a couple of things you got to remember. You got your health, right? Blanche: Yeah. Sophia: You can still walk, can't you? Blanche: That's true. Sophia: Great, go get me a glass of water. • Blanche [to her daughter Janet, who doubts God's existence]: Oh honey, of course He exists. Just look at the beautiful sky, the majestic trees. God created man, and gave him a heart, and a mind, and thighs that could crack walnuts. • Rose: My cousin Ingmar was different. He used to do bird imitations. Blanche: What's wrong with that? Rose: Well, let's just say, you didn't want to park your car under their oak tree. • Blanche: I don't really mind Clayton being homosexual, I just don't like him dating men. Dorothy: You really haven't grasped the concept of this gay thing yet, have you? Blanche: There must be homosexuals who date women. Sophia: Yeah, they're called lesbians. • Dorothy: Why can't you sleep on the couch and give Clayton and Doug your room? Blanche: Are you crazy, what will the neighbours think if they see two men in my bedroom? Sophia: They'll think it's Tuesday. • Blanche [to Rose]: What? Are you out of what is left of your mind?! • [Sophia and Dorothy come through the front door] Rose: Why are you both wearing black? Did you just get back from a funeral? Dorothy: No Rose, we were singing back-up for Johnny Cash. • [The Girls got stuck with the neighbour's baby] Blanche: Now, only women in there twenties and thirties have babies, whatever is a woman in her forties to do? Dorothy: I don't know, why don't we find one and ask? • Dorothy: Rose honey, I think you're putting the cart before the horse. Rose: And that's bad? • Blanche: I tried giving up sex. Dorothy: I guess you fell off the wagon. Sophia: And on to a naval base! • [Dorothy and Blanche are mistakenly labeled as lesbian lovers on a talk show] Sophia: What kind of pain and embarrassment has this lifestyle caused your mother? Dorothy: I really don't know, but I'll ask her tomorrow when I visit her at... The Home. Sophia: No more questions. • [Dorothy just left the house for a vacation, leaving her mother to Blanche's care] Sophia: Fasten your seatbelt, slutpuppy, this ain't gonna be no cakewalk! • [Stan thinks his brother Ted is after Dorothy] Stan: Don't you see? The last time Ted went to Acapulco he got married! Dorothy: So? The last time I went to Coney Island I got pregnant. What's your point? • Rose: Cooking, Dorothy? Dorothy: No, Rose, I'm developing pictures for the Magellan Space Program. • Dorothy: You know, sometimes I can't believe my ears. Sophia: I know. I should've taped them back when you were seven. • Dorothy: Come on, Ma, let's go out on the lanai. Sophia: No, I think I'll just stay here. Dorothy: Shady Pines, Ma. Sophia: You're bluffing. Dorothy: The west wing. Sophia: I'm right behind you, pussycat! • Dorothy [to Rose]: And what did you win this time? A vasectomy? • Sophia: Jealousy is a very ugly thing, Dorothy! – And so are you, in anything backless. • Dorothy: You'll have to excuse my mother, she survived a slight stroke, which left her, if I can be frank, a complete burden. • Stan's mother: If I had to thank her, I'd choke on the words. Dorothy: Please risk it. • Dorothy: Take if from the top, Rose. Rose: That sounds so professional! Dorothy: Okay, Rose, tickle the ivories. Rose: Goochie goochie goo! Dorothy: Rose, play or die! • Blanche: You are nothing but a lowdown carpetbagging scallywag! And as God is my witness, I will never shampoo your hair again! • Blanche: Why, Rose, that's the law of the jungle! Sophia: Thank you, Sheena, queen of the slut people. • Dorothy: Ma, I have a feeling you're lying. Rose: Dorothy, be positive! Dorothy: Okay, I'm positive you're lying!

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

[quote]Rose: My cousin Ingmar was different. He used to do bird imitations. Blanche: What's wrong with that? Rose: Well, let's just say, you didn't want to park your car under their oak tree.

The others were mostly funny but this one is falling-down funny.

This thread has inspired me to watch YouTube episodes of Designing Women. I could never sit here and watch GG this way, which was a tired succession of half-hearted, one-liners. DW is a hoot. Love it.

[quote] GG was really "of the moment" and hasn't aged well.

Fixed that for you.

The important thing to remember is that a person can only enjoy one sitcom during their lifetime. All the other sitcoms past and future should be treated as threats to your program's very existence.

This is a familiar concept for college literature majors, who are asked to choose their single favorite work by Shakespeare and then spend the rest of their scholastic careers pointing out the reasons why each of his other writings "fucking SUUUUUUCKS!" This tried and true form of critical analysis works just as well for pop culture, as evidenced in this thread (and countless others devoted to pop singers).

I hope some of our more advanced posters can follow the process to its logical conclusion by identifying the one cast member of their preferred show who was solely responsible for its greatness, then specifying why all the other actors were talentless hacks who got on your fucking nerves.

[quote]This thread has inspired me to watch YouTube episodes of Designing Women. I could never sit here and watch GG this way, which was a tired succession of half-hearted, one-liners. DW is a hoot. Love it.

DW was a bore. I don't think I've even watched three full episodes of it. That they couldn't even keep the same cast throughout the series run adds to its inferiority. They tried to duplicate the chemistry of GG with Bloodworth-Thomason's copycat show, but it never worked, hence the reason DW isn't the pop culture stalwart that the superior GG is.

I disagree, but then again, I have always endeavored to disagree with nonsense and drivel.

And let me tell you another thing, Miss R153. You and your silly little senior citizen show can all climb onto a carnival bus and ride to the deepest pit of hell.

Because that, Miss R153, is where The Golden Girls will be playing on a loop, all day, every day.

Whereas the Sugarbakers of Atlanta will always triumph. Good taste, class and humor will always trump frivolity and fuckery. Now take that back to St. Olaf and stuff it, Rose!

[quote]And let me tell you another thing, Miss [[R153]]. You and your silly little senior citizen show can all climb onto a carnival bus and ride to the deepest pit of hell.

Paaahahahahahahahaa!!!!

You're entire post was hilarious, but that part was [italic]really[/italic] funny.

[quote]where The Golden Girls will be playing on a loop, all day, every day.

It's already playing here on Earth just about all day, everyday, so there's that. Classic, iconic shows tend to be rerun that way. Where's "Designing Women" being re-run when its three or four fans want to tune in...?

*Crickets*

[quote] You would see the biggest gift would be from me

Oh great, she's clogged up the toilet again.

That Sophia......

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

154 best read in Julia's voice LOL

[quote]DW was just too topical to transfer to later generations, the same as Murphy Brown.

Why does anyone care about that? Do you think we should water down comedy for future generations? Anyone who lived in the era of DW and Murphy Brown can still enjoy the heck out of watching it again. I don't give a damn if some teenager doesn't get it. They've got their own junk to watch.

Am I the only one who thought Allison was a mean spirited hoot? She was a great mean girl.

R154 was there the night the lights went out in Georgia.

Why yes, R161. Yes I was.

I don't think any real southerners like DW. I just think it's a Yankee white trash idea of southerners.

We all agree DW didn't age as well as GG; but I simply don't think it was funny, even for it's time. It wasn't more sophisticated, it simply purported to be.

"Everywhere I go, anytime of the day or night, I see all these women--whippin' themselves out and actin' like public fillin' stations. I mean, they act like just 'cause there's a baby attached it's not a breast anymore. Could you see me unleashin' one of these outdoors? All hell would break loose!"

[quote]"Everywhere I go, anytime of the day or night, I see all these women--whippin' themselves out and actin' like public fillin' stations. I mean, they act like just 'cause there's a baby attached it's not a breast anymore. Could you see me unleashin' one of these outdoors? All hell would break loose!"

Yes, that's classic DW "humor".

But, is it actually funny?

Or merely purporting to be "outrageous" as the laugh track drowns out everything else?

DW seemed to think itself so smart, when it was really anything but.

R165, that's one of my complaints about DW. The dialog and diatribes are so longwinded that it hurts the delivery and thus the humor.

GOLDEN GIRLS is to Marilyn Monroe what DESIGNING WOMEN is to Jayne Mansfield. Like Marilyn, GG has become a pop cultural icon and popular with people of all ages and sexes, and there are magnets, T-shirts, even LEGO games. On the other hand, DW is seen as a poor man's GG and doesn't and never had the impact that GG did. Like Mansfield, DW is mainly remembered by a few die-hard fans.

GOLDEN GIRLS Lego set!

Jayne Mansfield gave us the lesbiconic Mariska. The only thing GG ever gave us was Empty Nest. Yes, I'm mixing the metaphor, but I don't care anymore. It had to be said.

On a side note, I recently enrolled in a couple community college courses (I'm 34) and on the first day of speech class the teacher had us go around the room and introduce ourselves, our favorite movies, shows, etc. This young gay man said his favorite show was GOLDEN GIRLS. He's 18/19 and just graduated high school last year and he adores GOLDEN GIRLS. (I wanted to ask him what he thought about DESIGNING WOMEN -- if he's even heard of it.)

[quote][R165], that's one of my complaints about DW. The dialog and diatribes are so longwinded that it hurts the delivery and thus the humor.

I have that exact same problem.

GG had snappy one-liners, DW had two minute long monologues.

All the women would wonder why Charlene had said some long, inane story about Ann Blyth or whatever.

I wondered too. It wasn't funny.

R172, at least when Rose told her equally long, inane St. Olaf stories, they were peppered with disgusted looks and hilarious comments/protests from the other women. On DW they just let Charlene talk uninterrupted.

r172, you hit on the very reason why DW was the thinking person's sitcom. Not all of us like our jokes force-fed.

That makes sense. Golden Girls for children with ADD. Designing Women for more thoughtful adults.

I stopped watching DW when I found out Dixie Carter is a filthy Republican.

WAS a filthy Republican.

[quote][R172], at least when Rose told her equally long, inane St. Olaf stories, they were peppered with disgusted looks and hilarious comments/protests from the other women. On DW they just let Charlene talk uninterrupted.

Not quite my point. Rose's St. Olaf stories eventually arrived at a joke. Charlene's didn't - they just rambled on.

[quote][R172], you hit on the very reason why DW was the thinking person's sitcom. Not all of us like our jokes force-fed.

But, it wasn't.

The humor wasn't sophisticated on either show, but at least it was funny on GG.

If you think DW was "thinking person's" comedy, you should broaden your horizons.

It must be noted - and I'm surprised it yet hasn't - that Linda Thomas wrote all the episodes of DW for the first couple of seasons.

Very unusual.

GG followed industry conventions and had countless writers.

Suzanne: Well, I think we should just round them all up!

Mary-Jo: Suzannne, I cannot believe you just said that!

Charlene: Oh, no, Mary-Jawww - she's right. I heard Tammy-Faye Baker when she was on TV, right before I wanted to watch my show, you that game show, you know the one with the big wheel, with that host, and I thought to myself, what is that all about... (rambles on incessantly)...

Julia: Charlaynnne. What. Was. The. Point. Of. All. That! Why. Not. Enlighten. Your. Mind. By. Voting. For. Bill. Clinton!

[quote]Some episodes of DW had a very sex-negative streak. I hated Julia when she argued for censorship of pornography, arguing that free speech only applies to political speech. But vandalizing a newsstand that sells porn magazines is? No wonder Sugarbaker & Associates had financial problems. Even Suzanne came off looking smarter in that episode when she said to the woman who published the BDSM mag, who donated profits to NOW, "You can't call yourself a feminist and show women doing these awful things."

DW was actually as very conservative show. It only thought it was liberal.

Were we supposed to like Julia?

I found her uppity, obnoxious and overpowering.

R182, that was perfect! LOL! I think you captured their exchanges perfectly. Yep, that's DW in a nutshell.

I'm as liberal as they come and preferred DW to GG during their original runs, but DW was too shrill and preachy in its message. The whole show comes off as dated and hamfisted today. GG holds up a million times better.

GG was mostly horrific its last two seasons, and even its best episodes those seasons are worse than a bad DW episode.

Talk about splitting hairs, R128. Poplar Bluff is part of boot heel Missouri and about as "southern" as it gets - just like much of the rest of southern Missouri.

One of my favorites, which had Julia being really extreme (for her) was where she was a juror. Charlene somehow tells the judge something that gets Julia and the others sequestered.

Julia reads Charlene the riot act on the phone. I love Suzanne's response.

CHARLENE: She said she was going to hunt me down like a dog and hire blood hounds to rip my clothes off! Now, I thought the judge was just going to give her a warning. I didn't know she was going to be shut up in a motel room. Now, Suzanne, you know Julia. I mean, when this is all over she'll realize I had to do it and forgive me, don't you think?

SUZANNE: I think you and your baby should get some black wigs on and get the hell out of town!

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

[quote]GG was mostly horrific its last two seasons, and even its best episodes those seasons are worse than a bad DW episode.

You must be crazy. "The Case of the Libertine Bell", "Goodbye Mr. Gordon" and "A Midwinter Night's Dream" from season 7 of GG are some of the funniest episodes of the series, and 100 x funnier than anything from DW.

The Baby Jesus loved Designing Women.

She was not impressed with The Golden Girls.

[quote]The Baby Jesus loved Designing Women.

She smote Designing Women.

Golden Palace was a steaming pile of shit doused with blood-speckled urine and glazed with syphillitic cum.

R196, so, you liked it???

Both spinoffs were pretty bad.

And it still amazes me that Linda Bloodworth Thomason and Delta Burke worked together again.

I think Woman of the House is underrated. Golden Palace reeked of desperation. I rather suck off a cactus as a I sit on a porcupine than watch even a second of GP.

Stop being mean to me!!!

The Golden Palace is essentially the eighth season of the The Golden Girls except it takes place in a hotel. Betty has even said as much.

And lest we forget the Debbie Reynolds two parter, which was a test run for a Bea-less Golden Girls (she hadn't committed to the last year at that point)?

Heh I forgot "The Golden Palace" was on CBS Fridays, as was the final season of Designing Women, and CBS cancelled them both from that slot.

I hated that smug shriek-fest.

R203 = Marjorie Leigh Winick.

"And lest we forget the Debbie Reynolds two parter, which was a test run for a Bea-less Golden Girls (she hadn't committed to the last year at that point)?"

Do you have a source for this episode being a test run, or are you just inferring this from your own intuition? It seems to me that Debbie's character was too similar to Blanche to have been at all representative of a type character they would add to the show as a new regular; that, combined with the fact that Bea was onscreen for almost all of Debbie's screen time, seems to me like it would have little value as a test run for a future Bea-less GG.

I agree with r205. They needed a more normal character type, like Dorothy, and Deb wouldn't have cut it. Besides, Bea was locked into her contract thru the seventh season, so there was no maybe about her returning for the seventh.

TV Guide recently released their list of the 60 best shows of all time. GOLDEN GIRLS was at #54, but DESIGNING WOMEN was nowhere to be found.

I mentioned that I tried watching DESIGNING WOMEN off and on when it was on Lifetime about a decade ago. It immediately followed GOLDEN GIRLS' hour, so I sometimes stuck around to watch DW, but I didn't find it funny and couldn't get into it. I gave up after like 5 episodes.

Anyway, over the weekend someone posted a YouTube link to a channel that had all the DW episodes so I decided to try again. I chose "Nashville Bound" where Charlene believes some guy is some big shot record producer and that he'll launch her singing career. The episode also features her entire family visiting en masse.

My problem with DW is that it's so schmaltzy and this episode was dripping of it. There was a scene where the other women are trying to warn her about this so-called producer, but Charlene begins to tell a story about why being a success in music is important to her. Basically, she was so poor that her family couldn't afford shoes and how her dad was humiliated at the bank when he tried to get a loan but was turned down because he had no decent collateral. So young Charlene decided right then and there to be extraordinary in life (basically, rich and famous) and make her father proud. My God, what sentimental BS! It didn't help that the sappy music played as she was telling it.

And then when Jean Smart finally gets to sing at the end, she chooses a mawkish song: "I can fly to Paris / It's at my beck and call / Why do I go through life with nothing at all / But when I dream I dream of you / Maybe someday it will come true." Meanwhile, her 50 family members and the other designing women look at her adoringly.

I usually hate people who resort to this but I. Can't. Even. Saying DW is better is such a ridiculous assertion it's not even worse trying to justify. It would be like saying Mrs. Doubtfire is a better cross dressing movie then Tootsie.

I mean, just taking into account the talent of the GG cast alone, how can you even compare the two? Some hit shows are not remembered well for a reason.

Anyone who thinks DW is the better show should watch "Nashville Bound" on YouTube.

Not only is it pure syrup, (which is actually better than those "lecture episodes"), it's very poorly written.

It clunks along, missing story marks, filled with plotholes.

It also rewrites Charlene who originally supposed to be smart and strong when the show began, and didn't have fifty siblings.

[quote]I hated that smug shriek-fest.

So did I. That's what it was.

[quote]Marjorie Leigh Winick.

I don't know who that is. When we post "Freida Claxton" or "Barbara Thorndyke" you know who it is. That doesn't work.

You GG loving bitches are so serious about this.

I've had fun poking the hot air in all of you for pages now, but you are as serious as a cancer diagnosis. And not nearly as funny.

I much prefer to spend my extremely precious and valuable time with those sophisticated ladies in Atlanta than those crude buffoons in Miami. Designing Woman is to The Golden Girls as Malamoud is to Steele. That's a metaphor, dear.

R19, I'm exhausted and on my way to work. I read "Cindy Birdsong", remembered that ep and started guffawing. Haven't seen it in 15 years, but it's still one of the funniest TV shows I've ever seen. Thank you so much!

Consuela Consuela, Banana-fana-fo-fala, mi-my-mo-mela, Con-sue-el-la!

R214, topical and political humor only works if it's un-PC, but DW took itself too seriously for that. It tries to be too politically correct for its own good. GG wasn't afraid to go there, and that's why it succeeds.

I meant to add that just because a show does political, PC humor does not make it "sophisticated."

Designing Women also has to compete in people's memories with the smash movie from the 50s, Designing Woman, with DL faves Betty Perske and Dolores Gray.

GG was basically slapstick and tired vaudeville routines and jokes. There was absolutely no depth, and the four of them looked beyond bored by the 4th season. In contrast, there was depth to DW, and the actresses always gave it their all. Theres's really no comparison.

GG is the better show, though I never watched it until my lover was sick, and in reruns, nightly at 11:00. More often than not we laughed, and when not we still laughed at the contrived situations and colours. He needed drugs.

DW had some great Suzanne moments, but she was so anachronistic for a young woman. Julia's rants were good theatre and I don't care what y'all say, Dixie Carter was sexy as fuck.

It was a test run for "The View": 4 overmade-up harpies sitting around bitching. With Mario Cantone as Anthony.

[quote] In contrast, there was depth to DW, and the actresses always gave it their all. Theres's really no comparison.

We'll never convince the tackpots that DW was better, hun. It's like trying to talk someone out of their double wide.

Yes, such amazing depth to Alice Ghostly singing "black man! black man!"

"GG was basically slapstick and tired vaudeville routines and jokes."

What? I would say there was hardly ever any slapstick at all on "The Golden Girls".

I can think of rare isolated moments that might qualify for the term, like the one when Patrick Vaughn the celebrity actor is secretly dating all three of them and drops whichever girl is in his arms when another one comes in. But I think that was a very unusual, once-in-a-blue moon scene.

Are there lots of other episodes with slapstick that I'm forgetting?

Three's Company was slapstick. GG was not. That's just a feeble, baseless lie made up by the previous poster out of envy.

[quote]Theres's really no comparison.

Right. The Golden Girls is ten times better than Designing Hags.

I think we've made R213 mad. LOL.

Designing Women rules.

It rules the bargain basement $0.99 bin.

At least the DW social commentary episodes were well-written and not absolutely implausible and inane. By contrast, I offer you three words: ROSE'S PILL ADDICTION. Gavel down!

[quote] It rules the bargain basement $0.99 bin.

We know GG's wardrobe department got all their rags from there.

Yes, all of those classic DW social commentary episodes that had all the subtlety of a charging rhino.

At least the DW were actually shown working. How many time were the GG seen at thir jobs? Oh yes, they showed Rose at that stupid TV news job, but the less said about that the better. Remember when Rose lost her job at the help center (which she magically got back the next episode), and Dorothy punched up her resume? Whenever I hear "Now this is the resume of a hospital administrator" I totally cringe. Like Rose was actually qualified to run a hospital. Stupidest show ever.

[quote] Remember when Rose lost her job at the help center

That's "help cent-ah!"

Not showing he girls' places of employment is a lame excuse to day GG is not the better show, and it's also false because we saw Blanche, Rose AND Dorothy at work throughout the series, particularly Dorothy. And it wasn't a Help Center that employed Rose, it was a grief counseling center. Get it right, toots.

DW wasn't a sitcom, it was a lecture.

[quote]At least the DW were actually shown working. How many time were the GG seen at thir jobs? Oh yes, they showed Rose at that stupid TV news job, but the less said about that the better. Remember when Rose lost her job at the help center (which she magically got back the next episode), and Dorothy punched up her resume? Whenever I hear "Now this is the resume of a hospital administrator" I totally cringe. Like Rose was actually qualified to run a hospital. Stupidest show ever.

You missed the best part - Dorothy updated Rose's resume by pencil! Or maybe it was a pen. But still!

Doesn't matter, though, I still love my GG.

"You missed the best part - Dorothy updated Rose's resume by pencil! Or maybe it was a pen. But still!"

Plus the assumption that people hiring a hospital administrator wouldn't be checking into the candidate's employment history. I know this was a pre-Google age, but they did have telephones in 1985!

Did they ever show Blanche at the museum accept for the time that she got Dorothy a job there?

The murder mystery episode was related to Blanche's job.

And Blanche getting laid, but that was pretty much every week.

Don't forget about me. I worked at the museum too. Remember when that slut tried to fix me up with her queer brother? I knew the score the second he shook my hand. Weak pansy grip.

Lois, I notice you conveniently omitted the fact that your dykey haircut gave you away as a lesbian the minute I laid eyes on you!

Wasn't Julia and Suzanne's gay brother also named Clayton?

[quote]Wasn't Julia and Suzanne's gay brother also named Clayton?

More proof that DW was nothing more than an inferior copycat of GG.

The thing about DW is, sometimes you wondered why they put some random thing. Like when Suzanne thought Consuela put a curse on her and she thought she was gonna die at midnight, they all had a slumber party over at Mary Jo's house. In the middle of it, Mary Jo's 5-year-old son comes down in an alligator costume. May Jo scolds him to go back to bed and he returns upstairs without saying a word. Meanwhile the audience laughs -- or was it a laughtrack? Either way, it was pointless and I don't see what was so funny about it.

It was Lois Lamont? I always thought it was Loyce Lamont.

I worked at an art gallery, for godsakes!

Only 8 hours a week, though, R255.

I came from old plantation money, R256.

Oh please, Blanche. You were a Baptist. You were trash.

Why didn't Julia Sugarbaker use her husband's surname? It was not common in that era for women to keep their maiden names. Was it because of the business? Did the business exist before she was married?

I would think with a big "Freeper" as one of its stars, DW should be DL anathema. Isn't that how it works around here?

Actually two...I'm sure Delta Burke is a "Rethug" (using DL speak here)... Her husband is.

GG stars were/are all stalwart Dems...so of course their show is better...RIGHT??

[/italic] I [italic] like [/italic] both GG and DW and enjoy watching reruns of both sitcoms.

[/italic] Damn! [/italic] What [/italic] does it take to end the damn italics? [/italic]

r260, I used to get so annoyed when the writers had characters address her as Mrs. Sugarbaker. Sorry, Mrs. Sugarbaker was Julia and Suzanne's mother. Julia was Ms. Sugarbaker or Mrs. McElroy.

I don't think one must like one or the other, but aside from the basic premise DW copied from GG, they're not very similar.

GG was sharply written comedy in it's purest form, it did sarcasm, surrealism and roast-style one liners.

DW was supposedly-outrageous, pseudo-intellectual political humor that was more interested in making a statement than being funny.

Some people seem to think comedy is a lesser form, when in fact it's a more difficult one. Name-dropping political figures alone isn't necessarily funny or smart.

Well, it sounds like you did pick a side after all, r271.

Also, people here talk about the last season of GG sucking....personally, it's one of my favorites - some of my absolute favorite episodes (Libertine Bell, The Monkey Show, the one with Edie McClurg, the one with the fake Beatle, Goodbye Mr Gordon), are in that season. Hell, it may it even be my favorite season.

I thought it was the perfect shot in the arm that new writers came in season 6 (which I also like a lot) and 7. There were no dramatic plot changes of course but that slight but noticeable shift in tone was ahead of its time in a way, and set the tone for 90s sitcoms that were to follow (especially Will & Grace). If any seasons were at all stale, it was the middle ones, but even those had plenty of episodes and moments that were gems.

Wasn't Designing Women just a bunch of GIANT hair-dos sitting around a fancy living room and dishing each other? (yawn)

So I've been watching some more of DESIGNING WOMEN on YouTube that someone posted a link to. I still don't find it very funny except for Delta and sometimes Dixie although her diatribes can be a bit longwinded.

As a native Spanish speaker, it irks me that English-speaking shows have Hispanic characters named Consuela with an A. (The Mexican maid in FAMILY GUY is also named Consuela). The name is Consuelo. I think the O throws people off because it sounds masculine, but "consuelo" in Spanish means "consolation" or "solace." It's a reference to the Virgin Mary -- Nuestra Señora del Consuelo, or Our Lady of Consolation -- but it's shortened to just Consuelo. Just like the name Soledad, as in Soledad O'Brien, is short for Nuestra Señora de la Soledad ("Our Lady of Solitude).

[quote]It was not common in that era for women to keep their maiden names.

What? It was set in the 80s, not the 50s. It was not at all unusual for a business woman (and feminist) to keep her maiden name for professional purposes. Hillary Rodham was doing it in the late 70s as FL of Arkansas.

Designing Women drinking game:

One sot every time someone says: "I can not believe you just said that!"

They say it to telegraph to the audience how progressive and daring they are.

That was basically a Charlene line; I wouldn't swear no one else ever said it, but it was a Charlene 'naivete' thing.

Designing Women drinking game part 2:

One shot every time someone enters and says "Sorry I'm late." Happens pretty much every episode, usually said by Mary Jo. Very lazy writing crutch I noticed watching the reruns.

I like DW, but hated Charlene's crybaby whininess. Jean Smart didn't ruin DW, but I thought she was far more annoying than funny.

Julia and Mary-Jo said "I can't believe..." too. Usually when Suzanne or Charlene said something ignorant.

Both series were good and both series had some good episodes and some mediocre episodes. The veteran actresses factor gave GG a slight edge, but the continual relying on insults humor was annoying. Also a lot of it just was not funny. Example: "It's a station wagon full of nuns." Why is that funny? And, "I'm just another middle aged guy in a Toyota." That's funny? Is it a put down to Toyotas or middle aged men? DW sometimes was preachy, yes, but the writing was usually better and the characters seemed more real. Some episodes were absolutely hilarious--remember when Charlene sold the June door to door cosmetics? When they all went on the "wilderness adventure?" Delta Burke proved her amazing acting talents over and over-remember when she wanted to adopt the little girl? Yes, sometimes certain things were repeated--like Mary Jo's "sorry I'm late" or Charlene's "you won't believe what happened" etc. but these also can be seen as literary devices to sketch out the character--another one is when Charlene takes off her earring to answer the phone. I didn't like Allison much but I did like Judith Ivey as B.J. Poteet. And you also must realize that any TV series is going to have topical or timely humor that might not immediately make sense to the next generation.

So enjoy both shows--I did--but I don't really have an interest in watching GG anymore while I can still watch DW occasioanlly.

[quote]Some episodes were absolutely hilarious--remember when Charlene sold the June door to door cosmetics?

[quote]Delta Burke proved her amazing acting talents over and over-remember when she wanted to adopt the little girl?

Those were terribly schmaltzy episodes. More often than not DW was too saccharine, it almost put me into a diabetic coma.

Excuse me! EXCUSE ME! I will have you know that the little Asian girl I wanted to adopt has had a great deal of success. She sure has! She's Assistant Manager at China 1 in Jonesboro, Georgia--right past the Big Chicken.

[quote]As a native Spanish speaker, it irks me that English-speaking shows have Hispanic characters named Consuela with an A. (The Mexican maid in FAMILY GUY is also named Consuela). The name is Consuelo. I think the O throws people off because it sounds masculine, but "consuelo" in Spanish means "consolation" or "solace." It's a reference to the Virgin Mary -- Nuestra Señora del Consuelo, or Our Lady of Consolation -- but it's shortened to just Consuelo. Just like the name Soledad, as in Soledad O'Brien, is short for Nuestra Señora de la Soledad ("Our Lady of Solitude).

Well, at least WE got it right!

I always loved that Suzanne added an extra syllable: Con-sa-WAY-la.

The Mama June Cosmetics one is hilarious and not saccharine. Get your episodes straight, girlfriend.

Loved whenever Bernice visited and when Jean Smart's real life hunk husband guest starred as Mary Jo's boyfriend. Patrick Warburton was also really hot then. Mary Jo got all the good ones! also Scott Bakula.

Based on this thread, I started watching Designing Women, and the OP is an idiot! I'm halfway through the second season and I want to punch these bitches into oblivion. Golden Girls is Shakespeare by comparison to this trite, melodramatic, condescending claptrap. It's forgotten for a reason.

Does anyone remember a specific DW episode where Suzanne utters the line, "I know what I did, I know what I've done, and now I deserve to die. How's my hair look"?

Some of the episodes of DW seemed half-written.

GG had a couple like that: 'Hey, Hey, Look Me Over', and 'Charlie's Best Friend'? I think.

'The Junies' was one of those clunky episodes. It reaches the conclusion and you think: Is that is? But, that plothole? Wait, it ended?

The one where Charlene wants to become a country singer is another. And, there's another one - I think the one with Leann Hunley - it ends with Julia just not calling her boyfriend.

At least Golden Girls didn't have any hillbilly accents. GROSS. I hated that Designing Women show. Ugh.

not so smuch

Designing whatnow?

DW could never have those moments of brilliance like Blanche's:

"Twice."

"But, I would've anyway."

Just endless overwrought monologues. Simple is always best.

There were two things I hated about Designing Women-at the beginning of each episode there would be a pointless cut to one of them when another one was speaking and then towards the end of each episode Julia would goof on an insufferably pompous diatribe.

My God. Did anyone except Linda Thomason like Julia's weekly lecture? There were excruciating. Were we supposed to admire that smug shrew?

LOL, R296. Exactly. I think we were supposed to admire Julia for those and actually cheer her on but I ended up always wanting to put her through a wall.

Julia was so annoying when she wanted to shut down pornography in her area because she said it wasn't Free Speech but commerce and therefore didn't deserve to be protected under the First Amendment like neo-Nazis and the KKK because they're at least "speaking their mind."

Furthermore, she tells the editor-in-chief of the magazine shame on her for calling herself a feminist and for "demeaning and hurting women everywhere."

The episode ends with Julia threatening the woman that someday she will zone her out of the city, county, state, and finally country. The audience cheers like crazy 'cause it's supposed to be a female empowerment diatribe, but Julia comes off like a sanctimonious, self-righteous, intolerant bitch.

Suzanne also had a holier-than-thou moment in the episode where all four and their respective boyfriends and children went to that beach resort and they hire a very nice, beautiful, educated Danish au pair for the children. The men go gaga over her and the four women end up resenting her. Mind you, she never crosses a line with the men. If anything, the women should be mad at the men for ogling her, but instead they take it out on the poor au pair.

The episode ends with Suzanne admonishing the au pair for having "a big smile, a big heart, and a big chest." Suzanne tells her to "take your big knockers and hit the road!" Then she lifts up a glass and says, "Well, girls, happy vacation!" *uproarious applause from audience*

The episode left a bad taste in my mouth. I felt so bad for the au pair. She never did anything wrong. It would be one thing to criticize her about her work ethic, which would be a reasonable excuse to fire her, but the au pair was great at her job. The only "bad" thing about her was that she was tall, beautiful, in shape, blonde, and had big boobs.

How can a show hail itself as a paragon of women and yet demonize women like the magazine editor and the au pair, who both didn't do anything illegal or defamatory or immoral? Just because one published a porn magazine and the other was fit and beautiful?

DW was the ultimate frau show.

DW lost me when Suzanne was taking care of Anthony, who was bedridden. Julia comes to visit and Anthony says "It's like that movie "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane. And I'm Jane." The crowd went wild for whatever reason.

Blanche was the invalid in BJ. So stupid.

Did the crowd go wild, R301, or did the laugh track?

302 posts?!

Sorry, I'm late!

That's alright, Mary Jawwwwww.

Even this old 1986 article calls DW a "Golden Girl knockoff."

Was DW ever actually funny? What do it's few fans consider to be the funniest episode?

There were a few funny episodes. I loved the one in season 5 [I think} where Julia threatened Charlene that she was going to kidnap her baby, 'cause she turned her in for committing a jury duty offense and she got stuck up in a hotel when she should have been having dinner with Jimmy and Rosalind Carter.

I did think it was, at times, a very puritanical show. The episode where Julia becomes an anti-porn crusader made me kinda hate the character. What a fuckin' prude.

Designing Women usually played it safe and suffered the consequences in that it's not as well remembered or regarded as The Golden Girls which was always a little bawdier.

R307,

She wasn't an anti-porn crusader.

Her beef was that the porn at the stand had women in chains like dogs, being beaten up, etc.

There's a difference between being again sex and being against degradation of women.

R308, she was against pornography in general. As she told the female editor of that magazine:

[quote]"Free speech will always be protected in this country, but pornography won't always be, Ms. Wilder. This country will let the Nazis speak and we will let the Ku Klux Klansmen speak, because as despicable as their statements are, they are speaking their mind. But when you publish your magazine, you're not speaking your mind. You'd shut that magazine down tomorrow if it weren't turning a profit. You know it and I know it, pornography is not free speech; it's commerce. Otherwise, you couldn't zone it out of certain nice areas of the city... Ms. Wilder, you bother me very much. I know I Can be sanctimonious and self-righteous, but nevertheless, I've just gotta say it: Shame on you for calling yourself a feminist! And shame on you for demeaning and hurting women everywhere all for a lousy nickel. I may not be able to stop you today, but someday we're gonna zone you right out of the city, and then we're gonna zone you right out of the county, and then we're gonna zone you right out of the country. And, in fact, Ms. Wilder, if I had my way, we might just zone you right off the globe!"

So Julia wanted to get rid of pornography in this country altogether.

Given the proliferation of porn on the Internet (something that didn't exist in the days of Designing Women), Julia's speech seems incredibly stupid and, obviously, utterly wrong. The Internet's popularity rose on the back of pornography, and much more violent and repugnant stuff than women in chains.

Right, but this is the pith of her argument--

[quote] Shame on you for calling yourself a feminist! And shame on you for demeaning and hurting women everywhere all for a lousy nickel.

Earlier in the episode when she first runs over the stand, she says--I forget the quote--but something like, "You couldn't show a black man in chains like that."

Since Julia the character was essentially a mouthpiece for LBT, I'm willing to bet it was more about women than specifically about porn.

Both shows had their good and bad points.

Wonderful actresses, all of them, but I love Suzanne Sugarbaker, truly one of TV's greatest characters and a forerunner of Will and Grace's Karen.

I think the writing and consistency was better in DW...also the sets. GG had the look of a cheap stage production...and some eps were surreal, not like actual life. But who could resist Bea Arthur, really one of the GREATS!

I wish we had some shows like this now instead of all of the Friends clones--Mixology yuk Friends with better lives yuk and a bore despite getting to see Vanderbeek mostly naked.

Both shows were good yet each had some duds--GG seemed to have more duds, to me, and some humor that really was corny or unfunny. Why do we have to have them compete against each other?

What about Joe's children by other women ? Tashawn, Jamal Realte, Tay Tay, Shabazz El Caniption, and Mad Dog 20/20 ?

Do they all have Grammy Awards as well ?

I disagree.

I prefer THE GOLDEN GIRLS.

DW was unberably condescending and sanctimoneous, something GG never was. And while the gays loved Blanche, there was little gay love for Suzanne when DW was on air. There's really no comparison. While GG was hardly Shakespeare, it had far more genuine laughs than any episode of DW. The only interesting thing to me about the latter show was watching Delta Burke morph into Divine; and Alice Ghostly, who seems to be in an entirely different show to the rest of the cast.

R309 really great material for a comedy, isn't it? It made One Day at a Time look subtle.

There's really no contest, and never has been.

I'll be out on the lanai.

am a suuutthhhen woman about the same age as Suzanne and i hated that show and the Thomassons.

It does not hold up at all in a vintage sense. It was mildly clever to a very specific time, but that time and sensibility are long gone. You don't hear folks raving about the genius of Murphy Brown either do ya? Same shit different dish. That end of the Bush/Quayle beginning of the Clinton era tme is not one of the best moments for the arts in general...well except for Nirvana.

R318 I actually don't think I watched any CBS shows growing up. Except for Dallas occasionally on Fri nights with my mom. But their 80s sitcoms more or less sucked.

Oh Kate and Allie, forgot about that (as most people today have). But pretty sure that's the only one.

[quote]There were a few funny episodes. I loved the one in season 5 [I think} where Julia threatened Charlene that she was going to kidnap her baby, 'cause she turned her in for committing a jury duty offense and she got stuck up in a hotel when she should have been having dinner with Jimmy and Rosalind Carter.

I hated that one. It was so contrived. Charlene MUST call and have Julia sequestered? Julia spend every second episode going on about her civic duty and then whined about having to do jury duty? If Julia was in a jury in any other episode and another juror wanted to just get it over with she'd demand they spend hours thinking about it.

Julia was such a sanctimonious, condescending bitch.

Were we supposed to agree with and admire her anti-porn crusade?

No one remembers my show but they know that awful copycat show. Yech, I hate that red headed bitch

I can not believe you just said that!

R320, I think so because there was a thunderous applause after Julia told off the editor of the BDSM magazine.

Joan, dear, YOURS was the copycat show. I LOVE LUCY begat I MARRIED JOAN. It premiered a year after I LOVE LUCY, but it only lasted 3 years.

R315, have you just completely lost your mind? All the gay men I knew adored Suzanne Sugarbaker! And Berniece was supposed to be on an entirely different planet than the rest of the girls of Sugarbaker House.

How many times do you laugh when watching GG?

How many times do you laugh when watching DW?

.

Girls, girls, this graph excluded Charlotte Rae and co.!

The only good thing I have to say about Designing Women: It was shot on film, whereas the Girls were shot on videotape.

I must admit though, I did like that episode where there's an explosion in a glitter factory.

ON AN EARLY SUMMER SUNDAY, AMID THE SWEET, SENSUAL magnolias of Oak Alley, a 1,300-acre plantation outside New Orleans, Delta Burke, late of the CBS sitcom Designing Women, donned a white antebellum lace gown for a joyous occasion. She and her husband of two years, Gerald McRaney, the star of another CBS sitcom, Major Dad, were renewing their wedding vows. But Dixie Carter, Burke's costar and matron of honor in the previous ceremony in Los Angeles, was not in attendance. Neither were any of the other principals connected with DW, including costars Annie Potts, Jean Smart and Meshach Taylor.

This week, on Monday, July 29, the DW cast and crew will reassemble in Hollywood to begin filming the show's sixth season—and to undertake no less than a redesign of the Atlanta interior-decor firm of Sugarbakers that provides its comic setting. Absent will be the tempestuous Burke, who played zany and zaftig Suzanne Sugarbaker; she was informed just eight days before her second wedding ceremony that Columbia Pictures Television was not renewing her $55,000-per-episode contract. Gone also (save for two new episodes) is Smart, who wants to perform in other projects and spend more time with her husband, actor Richard Gilliland, and baby Connor Douglas, 21 months. In Burke's and Smart's places will be newcomers Julia (Newhart) Duffy and Jan (Saturday Night Live) Hooks.

The recasting caps a year that had been the best and worst in DW's tenure. For 1990—91, the series garnered a highest-ever No. 9 Nielsen ranking (the program even made it to No. 1 in prime time the week of July 1-7). But it also reaped titillating headlines from a shattering backstage feud that centered on Burke and got uglier as it became more public. Burke herself emerged with a deal for a new, as-yet-unwritten sitcom at Universal Television, but also with a bruised image. It typifies the morale meltdown that Delta got the news of her DW departure not from a production-company representative but by overhearing a conversation on the set of a CBS TV movie she and McRaney were filming titled Love and Curses.

That may have burned her the most. Along with her talent, Delta, 34, carries into life a reputation for fiery southern passion that is as tangible as bayou moss. One friend calls her "a latter-day Scarlett O'Hara," a reference more to her spirited temperament than her refined manners. Her former publicist, Phil Paladino, says she's "a strong woman." But Jean Smart notes, "Delta was the baby, chronologically, and we treated her like a baby sister. She has such a childlike quality about her." Her problems, magnified or genuinely large, came to dominate the set. They included her celebrated battle of the bulge (the 5'5" actress once reportedly ballooned as high as 210 lbs.), which became a takeoff point for Burke's Emmy-nominated 1990 episode, "They Shoot Fat Women, Don't They?" In the end, many disgruntled colleagues, weary of what they saw as her mercurial nature and husband McRaney's off-the-set interference ("He's the force behind the mouth," says one), wished her good riddance. "We're tired of having her suck all the energy out of us," said one of the show's minor players (who, like many interviewed for the story, asked not to be identified). "We can't live like this anymore."

Strangely enough for a controversy so public, Burke's fate may have been sealed by a private poll. Though the actress had requested a release from her contract late in 1990, that request was widely considered a negotiating ploy. The series, many believed, was highly dependent on her popular character. But on March 28, at a spontaneous, informal meeting (Burke had already left the set after filming her segments), the DW cast and producers voted on whether she should return to the show. The verdict was no. On April 2, DW coexecutive producer Harry Thomason wrote a confidential letter to Gary Lieberthal, chairman of Columbia Pictures.

Photo of the cast of DW

At least DESIGNING WOMEN is still free on YouTube.

That's cause it's only worth siccing legal departments on YouTube over things that the rights-holders can actually make money from because people would actually be willing to pay to watch it - obviously "Designing Women" doesn't qualify!

Designing Women had to be the only TV show with an applause track, right?

DW was and always will be completely unfunny.

I miss my pig.

The 1988-1989 season of "DW" was the best. Very little schmaltz, some unbelievably funny ones (the girls go camping) and some black comedic ones that still resonate today (Julia continually flattening the porn newsstand)

don't understand the GG queens who hate DW.

you can't enjoy both on their merits?

I have to say DW was overall better written and had better character development. GG was funny but cartoonish; Ma was annoying and I got tired of man crazed Blanche and ditzy Rose. Good yes, but classic great? Don't think so.

Bea was clearly the star here; she was the only one I never got tired of. She and Betty had great TV star power that gave this show an edge.

The excellent actresses often made up for weak scripts.

DW had better, more consistent writing and a more believable premise. Anyone who has ever spent time in the South knows how eccentric people are there. And how realistic Suzanne is. I loved all of the DW characters, and I liked the liberal political slant and Anthony is a treasure.

So I don't think it's forgotten. Just in the minds of some unhappy queens who feel they must bitch about everything.

I wouldn't call it tragic. This show lacked the extremely clever writing that Golden Girls had. And Julia's feminist speeches each episode got tired. Plus the major cast changes the last two seasons, it majorly jumped the shark and many people tuned out, whereas I think a lot of people stayed with Golden Girls until the end.

GG extremely clever writing

Only sometimes, dearie

Very inconsistent and uneven and some REALLY lame episodes

Michael Jacksons jacket? Ma joins a convent? Guy hasn't left his apartment for 20 years? Stan and Dorothy slum landlords? The plane trip to somebodys funeral? Blanche wants to date the guy who now is fat? The girls babysit somebodys kid? HOW LONG DO YOU HAVE? Rose's father the priest?

For every Barbara the snotty writer, there are duds like the above.

Yes R341, Golden Girls had a few clunker episodes like the Michael Jackson jacket, Rose's holy father and some others. What show that ran for seven seasons wouldn't? But Ham Lushbow and Aunt Gretchen's funeral do not fall into that category. And the Emmy-winning Designing Women (for hairstyling) had more than their share of them.

There were few funny lines on DW. "His people fought long and hard for the ride to ride public transportation" was one of the few.