The Trouble with Angels and Where Angels Go Trouble Follows

STILL good movies, weirdly enough. There is something captivating about "The Trouble With Angels" that rises above its general cheesiness.

I've got the most scathingly brilliant idea!

Well, Roz IS buried under a crucifix, you know.

Take off her binder! Take off her binder!

I find the ending of The Trouble with Angels, where June Harding seems betrayed by Hayley Mills's decision, terribly affecting.

I have to admit I did tear up when Roz was comforting the old lady whose family didn't visit her for Xmas.

Roz doesn't get much love here at DL.

I know she was a hardcore Republican but how tall was she?

The Women was on the other night and she towers above the rest of the cast.

I wish TCM would air Mourning Becomes Electra. I have yet to see it.

I wonder how Joan Crawford would have been in the role of Reverend Mother...

The JuneHarding character in real life was an out lesbian and one of the first women to make it big in advertising/public relations. The book is good, fun and well-written. life with Mother Superior by Jane Trahey (the real June).

I read that book years and years ago. I should try to find it again, it was funnier than the movie.

[quote]I know she was a hardcore Republican but how tall was she?

She was an old time Republican. Quite different than the Holy Roller Tea Party Freedom hating Republicans of today.

R6, according to IMDb, Roz was 5'8", towering over Crawford, who was 5'3" and Shearer, at 5'1".

A devout Catholic, Roz was a regular parishioner at the Good Shepherd Church in Beverly Hills, along with Loretta Young, Jane Wyman, and many other affluent Catholics, prompting Roz to dub it "Our Lady of the Cadillacs."

GYPSY ROSE LEE played "Mrs Phipps," the dance & movement instructor!

Saw a movie with her as a young woman recently. Was suprised how pretty she was.

R3 my family and other relatives are buried at Holy Cross. When I visit their graves, I'll sometimes visit Roz and Sharon Tate's graves too.

What kind of person names their daughter Marvel Ann?

Stan Lee, R16

This is one of my favorite childhood movies. Hayley was awesome in it (didn't we just have a thread about her a few days ago) and I think this was also her last child-oriented movie.

And it's funny how misleading the DVD cover of the movie is - it looks like the nun on the right is holding a gun in her hands. I think that's a actually a rope to ring bells with.

It is really striking how much Ros looks and sounds like Crawford in the film.

Was she playing Mother Superior as Joan?

I know they were close so I doubt it was done out of malice.

LOVE both movies but am a little bugged that Marvel Anne is STILL in high school in the second film after spending 4 years in HS in the first movie.

The sequel is just incredibly bizarre.

Why did Lupino not return to direct?

Ro is playing the Head Nun like she was still on the Auntie Mame set, really.

The sequel was stupid. They had to create a new character for Roz to spar with in the sequel because Hayley Mills wasn't interested in reprising her role, so they came up with I guess what they thought was a brilliant idea: having the sexpot Playboy model Stella Stevens play a hip nun. Milton Berle, Arthur Godfrey, Robert Taylor and Van Johnson was brought in for added star power. And poor Marvel Ann is still at the school, despite having graduated in the original film. Despite trying very hard, the film doesn't really work and is vastly inferior to the original, as all sequels tend to be.

Always thought Roz mourning over the death of Sister Ligouri vibed a more intimate relationship.

r24 Nuns were always exhorted not to foster "special relationships." Difficult though it may have been.

Where Angels Go, Trouble Follows is like The Canterbury Tales in that we never see our sojourners arrive at their destination.

I love the first film because it starts out in one direction (funny, slapsticky) and changes gears halfway through to a more gentle tone (I love the scene where Roz talks about apprenticing for a famous designer in Paris - Chanel?)

The second film is a blast of grooviness. (And can we talk about the really really tall guy who keeps avoiding dancing with girls in the dance scene at the boys school? You know he ended up a total bottom boy in SF).

I always wonder how different the sequel would have been had Hayley come back and played the rebellious nun.

R23 We didn't see Marvel Ann graduate. She's not in the graduation scene. But Ronne Troup (Polly on My Three Sons) is.. came out of nowhere. Marvel Ann was either incredibly stupid or she was being held captive and doing the nun's laundry in the basement.

I thought Susan Saint James was gorgeous in the original and rocked that short hair.

I caught the last half of The Trouble With Angels last night. I was struck by the sight of all the legs going by as the band girls paraded around in showgirl outfits. You would never see legs like that now in a Hollywood movie unless it was on a "fat friend" character.

In real life the average weight of American young adults has never been fatter, but in the movies they have never been skinnier.

The dance scene at the Catholic Boys School is a riot! Psychadelic lighting while all the students are closed so tightly around each other and rubbing their genitals together. Frottage?

Did it feature the song stylings Of Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart?

Incredibly, the producer originally wanted Garbo in the Russell role. It boggles the mind.

R29 I always close my eyes during the scene with the girls in their band uniforms. All those close ups of pussy make me queafy. I mean queasy.

Interesting how Jim Hutton used an 'alias' in the credits. Was he embarrassed to be in the movie? I mean, it was no 'Where The Boys Are' but what movie can even come close to that.

[quote]I find the ending of The Trouble with Angels, where June Harding seems betrayed by Hayley Mills's decision, terribly affecting.

I saw this movie as a kid and found the ending very disturbing. Still do watching it today. It was like losing your best friend to a cult.

I thought it was weird that none of the girls' parents were at their graduation.

Wonderful movie and touching performances by Russell and Mills.

[quote]I thought it was weird that none of the girls' parents were at their graduation

Extras don't work for free, honey.

Change the characters to 2 guys and that movie was about me going to Catholic school in the 70s!! My best friend was gay and we got in trouble all the time with the Nuns and Brothers. He died of AIDs in 1990 , I was touched when some of the sisters came to his funeral

That's sad and touching, R37

No love for Stella Stevens as Sister George?

That would make a cool movie, R37.

Mr. Gottschalk, presumably Jewish, lends band uniforms to the girls at St. Francis. Roz: "I'm going to light a candle for you Mr. Gottschalk." Mr. G: "I don't know if it'll help, but on the other hand it can't hurt. Thank you." Roz: "Ah, your kindness will be rewarded, I know it will" Mr. G: "From your mouth to God's ear." [after the girls parade in skimpy new band uniforms lent by Mr. Gottschalk] Roz: "This is a Catholic school Mr. Gottschalk!" Mr. G: "Band uniforms are non-sectarian" Mr. G: "no candle reverend mother?" Roz: "Perhaps a small one Mr. Gottschalk" (not to be confused with Roz telling Mr. Goldstone to have an eggroll in Gypsy.)

Re the band uniforms, it was strange that Mother Superior did not specify in advance the type of uniform that she wished the girls to wear. Pretty unbelievable that the first time she gets a look at them is when the girls are heading to the competition in them.

Still, despite this and several other scenarios that don't make much sense, I adore this movie.

Here, R39!!! I have always loved Stella as the hip Sister. Loved how she stood up to that "dangerous" motorcycle gang! Surpassed only by her performance as Linda Rogo in THE POSEIDON ADVENTURE.

I know what you mean, R42, a lot of this movie makes no sense but it is endearing and easily re-watchable.

The band contest is one of the silliest subplots. If St. Francis and the New Trends school are the top contenders, who the heck is putting up a big pot of money to celebrate such crummy bands?

Gypsy Rose Lee is a treat in her brief appearance. Ida Lupino was underrated both as an actress and as a director. She was one of few women directing television and films in the '60s and she did a fine job with this one.

Rosalind Russell wrote that Hayley Mills took an instant dislike to her and treated her with disdain throughout the making of the movie. Russell had a bit of a reputation as a diva and a snob. Hayley's parents were also film actors. I wonder if they or any other adults had put Hayley on her guard about Russell going in.

As a child. I had seen "Where Angels Go, Trouble Follows" at my neighborhood cinema three times before entering junior high. I loved it, of course and had no idea it was a sequel to anything! I was SHOCKED to discover it was not a critical success, as aside from "The Ghost and Mr. Chicken", it was the funniest movie I'd ever seen!

I saw it many times too, R46. GAMC as well. I was dismayed at Susan St. James' hair. It looked like a boy and that was just not right! Loved her though. She was the reason I watched MACMILLAN & WIFE.

You almost have to see the sequel to appreciate how good the original movie is. Yet WAGTF is weirdly lovable in its own right.

I love the little mystery in the end credits of WAGTF where six or seven girls are listed as The Contest Winners, each representing a various state where part of the movie was filmed. They probably entered a contest in Tiger Beat or Sixteen magazine or some such. I wonder where each winner appears in the movie.

[quote]I read that book years and years ago. I should try to find it again, it was funnier than the movie.

I've tried several times to get a copy of the book. The cheapest I've found is a used copy on Amazon for 50 bucks. Some of the copies are 250.

here r48...there are one cent versions in hardcover or paperback.

I think you've got the wrong book for this thread, R49. Definitely.

oops! I thought I was in the Goodbar thread!!! Big difference!!

r51 The Lord DOES work in mysterious ways.

The original never fails to make me cry.

Turn purple!

Gosh, my Mom will be keenly interested that her old copy is now worth something R48!

The book is very funny and well written.

The Trouble with Angels came out at the pinnacle of American Catholicism's cultural confidence.

The Pope wasn't having any of that and began to systematically destroy it..

The original works because it shows a bratty, immature girl evolving into someone who can be affected by the sad plights of others...nuns raped in the war, kids with leprosy, old ladies in a nursing home....and even though I think her religious awakening part of it is the most unrealistic part of the film, it added dimension that was missing from the sequel. Also it had a lovely music score that perfectly complemented Mary's growth. The film could have been set in almost any decade, it was timeless. The sequel was just a shallow sitcom attempt to cash in on the generation gap in the 60s. It's still watchable as a cultural artifact, but it doesn't have any genuine kind of feeling about it.

Jane Trahey (

Jane Trahey was born Nov. 19, 1923, in Chicago. She graduated from Chicago's Mundelein College in 1943 and studied for two years at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. (In 1975, Ms. Trahey received an M.F.A. from Columbia University, New York.) Her first job was in the news morgue of the Chicago Tribune, followed by a position in the survey research department of the Chicago Daily News.

Ms. Trahey then moved to a receptionist job with Chicago department store Carson, Pirie, Scott & Co. and worked her way into her first advertising job as a copywriter for the retailer. Her work brought her to the attention of the upscale department store Neiman-Marcus, which in 1947 lured her to Dallas with a copywriting position.

While she originally planned to stay only two years in Texas, she instead remained with the retailer for almost nine years, eventually becoming advertising and sales director. During her years at Neiman-Marcus, Ms. Trahey won a reputation for innovative fashion copywriting, setting a standard for others to follow. She experimented with color in retail ads and also with scented inks.

In 1956, she moved to New York to open 425 Advertising Associates as the in-house agency for Julius Kayser Inc., a lingerie and hosiery marketer. In 1958, she opened her own agency, Jane Trahey Associates, specializing in fashion and cosmetics advertising. In 1962, the name of the agency changed to Trahey/Cadwell, reflecting the addition of partner Franchellie Cadwell, who died in May 2003.

That partnership lasted only until June 1964, when Ms. Cadwell and Ms. Trahey dissolved the business arrangement. Operating as Trahey Associates/Advertising and then in 1965 as Trahey Advertising, the agency's clients included Charles of the Ritz, Elizabeth Arden, Pauline Trigere, Rob Roy Shirts for Boys and the textile division of Union Carbide Corp. By 1966, the agency was billing about $2.5 million and had 18 employees.

In 1967, the name of the agency was changed again, this time to Trahey/Wolf Advertising, reflecting the addition of Art Director Henry Wolf as a partner; that arrangement lasted until 1972, when Mr. Wolf left and Ms. Trahey returned to doing business as Trahey Advertising. In 1976, Peter Rogers, an exec VP at the agency, became a partner, and the shop was renamed Trahey/Rogers Advertising. In 1978, Ms.Trahey herself left to become a consultant, selling the shop to Mr. Rogers.

Over the course of her advertising career, Ms. Trahey received more than 200 awards, including the American Advertising Federation's 1969 Advertising Woman of the Year honor. Her chief campaigns included those for Bill Blass, Calvin Klein, Elizabeth Arden and Olivetti typewriters. Among the well-remembered slogans she created were, "Foot-loose and Famolare!" for Famolare footwear and "It's not fake anything, it's real Dynel" for Union Carbide's synthetic hair.

Perhaps Ms. Trahey's best-known campaign was that for Blackglama mink, which she created with Mr. Rogers in 1968 for the Great Lakes Mink Association. The effort featured women so well known they did not need to be identified by name in the ads to be recognized. In each ad a single celebrity, wearing a mink coat and shot by top photographer Richard Avedon, was featured along with the line, "What becomes a legend most?" The celebrities, who received a mink coat and the portrait by Mr. Avedon as payment, included Lauren Bacall, Marlene Dietrich, Judy Garland, Rita Hayworth, Leontyne Price and Barbra Streisand.

Ms. Trahey also was active in the feminist movement, creating public-service advertising for the National Organization for Women Legal Defense & Education Fund, and serving as VP and a member of the board for that branch of the organization.

After leaving the agency, Ms. Trahey continued to work as a consultant while writing and lecturing. She died at her home in Kent, Conn., on April 22, 2000.

loved the original... had the biggest crush (and still do!) on hayley mills...

the sequel? not so much, for whatever reason i find it i don't know "crass, hard and pushy".. i enjoy the scenes of them traveling thru the various part of the country with the move music playing in the background the best....

getting back to the original. i always disliked the ending.. it's too sad! i mean poor rachel thought that her and mary would be best friends for life, living near each other, getting married, having their kids and so on. oh sure, mary clancy becoming a nun meant "just because i'm becoming a nun, doesn't mean i can't write to people!' but we all know that whole long distance friendships never last...

everytime i saw this scene in this movie it makes me sad as can be.. wondering whatever happened to rachel and her and sister mary's friendship? i wonder though how far away did rachel live from st.francisville? i mean would it be that far that she couldnt' visit sister mary frequently forever? do and can NUNS have best friends they hang with?..

personally i think the ending COULD HAVE BEEN JUST AS POWERFUL if both rachel and mary realize that they WILL miss mother superior and st.francisville and that realization as all 3 start to cry with each other! WHY COULDN'T THAT HAVE BEEN THE ENDING?! but no, they had to make it where mary develops a conscience and a soul in 4 years (even though she was still pulling pranks right up until the end almost) and make her do a 360 degree turn!..

[quote] oh sure, mary clancy becoming a nun meant "just because i'm becoming a nun, doesn't mean i can't write to people!' but we all know that whole long distance friendships never last...

But they did stay friends -- until the end.

"No love for Stella Stevens as Sister George?"

She's not getting any love from me. I didn't buy Stella Stevens as a nun for one solid minute, even a "hip" one. Stevens specialized in playing blonde bimbos and dimwits; I guess it was thought that casting her as a nun would be SO clever. But it didn't work, not at all.

It's a shame Hayley Mills wouldn't consider reprising her role for a sequel. But she and Rosalind Russell did not get along. According to Russell, little Hayley was quite full of her burgeoning sexuality and had no use for straight-laced people like Russell. So they clashed. It's a shame. I think a sequel to TTWA with those two would have been so great.

[quote]I always disliked the ending.. it's too sad! i mean poor rachel thought that her and mary would be best friends for life, living near each other, getting married, having their kids and so on. oh sure, mary clancy becoming a nun meant "just because i'm becoming a nun, doesn't mean i can't write to people!' but we all know that whole long distance friendships never last...

Agree, the ending was VERY depressing.

My Mother grew up attending Catholic school all the way to graduation. So as kids, she dragged us to all the wacky Nun movies that played Drive-Ins all over Long Island including a singing Debbie Reynolds on a Vespa.

r57 - loved your critiques, and I agree. TTWA was character-driven, WAGTF was plot-driven.

[quote]but we all know that whole long distance friendships never last...

We all know that teenage girls who choose to become nuns are lesbians.

[quote]and make her do a 360 degree turn!..

Putting her exactly in the same spot as before?

Camilla Sparv was the beautiful Sister Constance in Trouble With Angels who Hayley Mills described as a classic beauty. Wonder if she ever did Playboy? Never heard of her before or since.

In WAGTF, the only thing I really liked was the bubble gum title song that they play at the groovy dance with the boys from "The Boy's School." It had that cheesy Monkee's vibe to it. Love love love the dance moves and what everyone is wearing.

I like the sequel better, maybe because I saw it first. I was enchanted by it.

The song is catchy, the trip is fun, (and that bus on the tracks is still nail-bitingly tense) the subtext oozing out of the Van Johnson scenes... And Sister George standing up to the bikers: "I fear for my mortal life but not for my immortal soul."

And the ending is also sad in retrospect, knowing what happened to American nunnery after the skirts went up and the wimples got more revealing -- they fled in droves! A new wind was indeed blowing, and it emptied out the convents. But it was a treat to see both Roz and Stella were redheads!!

How can Mary Clancy and Marvel Ann be in school together but Marvel Ann shows up in the sequel, still in school?

I always thought that Marvel Ann was a sophomore/junior when we first meet her and Mary was a year or two ahead of her. Mary graduates and Marvel Ann had another year before graduation - hence her appearance in the sequel, still in school.

I do worry about these things, you know.

At the link is the groovy high school dance scene where the girls have, to the disgust of Reverend Mother, shortened their dresses. The girls dance pretty good (with the exception of that lump Marvel Ann); the guys are hopeless.

Susan St. James is rockin' that dress she's wearing...looks like a mini-caftan.

Camilla Sparv was in a great movie called "Dead Heat on a Merry-Go-Round" opposite James Coburn. It has a terrific surprise twist at the end.

[quote]In WAGTF, the only thing I really liked was the bubble gum title song that they play at the groovy dance with the boys from "The Boy's School." It had that cheesy Monkee's vibe to it. Love love love the dance moves and what everyone is wearing.

Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart were the singer/songwriters and they also wrote for the Monkees, including "The Monkees Theme Song" and "Last Train to Clarksville."

They are of course best known for their immortal tune "I'll Blow You a Kiss in the Wind" as sung by Cousin Serena on Bewitched.

re: The Youtube video of the groovy dance. I totally want the blue gingham pants that one of the boys in the band is wearing.

She didn't yield, r33. She chose.

Wow, glad I'm not the only one who loves this movie. I'm such a sucker for coming-of-age stories that take place at boarding schools.

I agree with original was far superior. Better writing, direction, story and acting.

The contrast between the two films is illustrated in the opening credits of each. In TTWA the non-nun adults are billed collectively as The Outsiders, which contributes to the cloistered feel of the film. In the sequel, the non-nun adults are billed as The In Group, a rather pathetic attempt to make a bunch of over-the-hill names like Van Johnson, Arthur Godfrey, and Milton Berle look groovy and with-it. Dismally, WAGTF was the final film of the once-great Robert Taylor.

Apparently in the book, the Sister George we see in the sequel is supposed to be Mary Clancy as a young and feisty nun, albeit one written before the hippie era we get in the movie. I never wanted to believe that, as Stella Stevens is so very different from Hayley Mills. Sister George is so annoying, protesting just for the sake of protesting. Her best scene is the one where the Rev. Mother Rosalind puts her in her place.

That's why she later became a streetwalker and then paid for it with her life. Even marrying a cop couldn't save her.

I loved this movie and I agree with R33, the ending was disturbing at first but in retrospect, it holds up. I've since re-watched it, as if through the eyes of a young initiate to a spiritual order.

From the beginning, you notice the little ways Hayley's character closely observes and tests the Reverend Mother to see if she's truly a person of faith and humanity. This is where Roz Russell's artistry comes through; she conveys a delicate balance between strictness and leniency, and succeeds in convincing us that she embodies her ideals.

My favorite scene is in the chapel after Sister Lugouri dies. Haley's character is hiding in the back of the chapel, watching, as the Reverend Mother weeps openly over the loss of her friend.

Rachel's along for the ride, but isn't a true seeker. She's not demanding answers to life's bigger questions.

I wonder if anyone else had this reaction to the film on later viewings.

Was this movie America's ripoff of the UK Saint Trinians?

Rosabelle: Boy, it's getting harder and harder to make dough around this place.

Mother Superior: [surprising Rosabelle] And it's going to get even harder. As of now, St. Francis-A-Go-Go is out of business.

I was Sister Ligouri's munch buddy.

[quote]Was this movie America's ripoff of the UK Saint Trinians?

Were those girls ever nice?

Post your favorite quotes from TTWA or WAGTF...

Reverend Mother to Sister Ligouri: Rachel has a home and parents who love her. She's a follower, not a leader. She can be guided. But, Mary... oh, Mary has a will of iron. To bend but not to break... to yield but not capitulate... to have pride but also humility. This has always been my struggle, Sister. Can I be less tolerant of Mary than the Church has been of me?

Sister George standing up to the bikers: "I fear for my mortal life but not for my immortal soul."

R78, I get all that, and the ending would have been great if Hayley's character was moved to turn her life around and become a better person, devoted to helping people, a teacher, or something like that. But to become a nun?! That is so drastic and such a shocking turn-about for her character.

Rachel: Couldn't we have uniforms, too, Reverend Mother?

Reverend Mother: Most certainly not. The band will perform in their gym suits.

Rachel: Our gym suits?

Reverend Mother: Yes.

Mary: But they're awful Reverend Mother. I mean it's not as if they were like Sacred Heart's, at Sacred Heart they wear short-shorts for gym.

Revered Mother: They're French.

And let's give credit to the director, Ida Lupino; actress turned director, long before Streisand.

r85, I think you missed the point that Mary Clancy is entering a teaching order. She will be devoting her life to educating young people just like all the other nuns in her order.

She might teach at St. Francis or a similar school, or she might go teach lepers in Africa like Sister Constance.

Did you miss the fact that every faculty member at St. Francis is a nun? Excepting Gypsy Rose Lee's cameo, of course. But she wasn't a regular faculty member, just a guest speaker paid for by the girls' parents to teach them graceful movement.

Love that thw rival school was New Trends where they taught the Silent Piano.

Yes, R87, Ida Lupino wsa a master. In TTWA, she brilliantly balances humor and absurdity with drama and reverence.

All those little scenes that added up to big themes, like Reverend Mother walking in the snow; Sister Constance on her way to a leper colony telling Mary to be happy; Mary gazing out the window, visibly transformed...

It just gets better on repeated viewings.

mary:"go walk in zee air, breeze zee fresh air, it's good for you, so we did!

reverend mother: obviously sister ursula's german accent amuses you..

mary: i didn't know she was german... reverend mother

reverend mother: then surely you didn't know that during the war she kept (i forget the number here folks) jewish children hidden in the bombed out basement of a building in munich and when she was found out she was imprisoned... she suffered untold indignities and she, she she...

mary: are we excused reverend mother?

reverend mother: yes..

rachel: what's the matter?

mary: i hate her!

rache: so what else is new?!

AND when they are exercising outside in the snow:

rachel: does this remind you of anything?

mary: napoleon's retreat from moscow!

when rachel and mary are being punished by dusting and cleaning up the basement...

rachel: i wonder if my parents know i'm being trained to be a janitor?

You'll need $10 for leotards!

No, r67, Sister Constance was a FLAWLESS beauty!

Excuse me while I have a word with Miss De Lys and Miss...Novak.

I've visited Roz's grave many times because my family and relatives are buried at Holy Cross. Sharon Tate's buried there too.

Me too R94 -- Holy Cross is filled with Hollywood Catholic Who's Who.

Roz had a big crucifix over her -- very easy to spot.

Shaoron Tate is an alcove with Charles Boyer and Zasu Pitts.

I found this adorable website with all kinds of TTWA trivia "Celebrating the 45th Anniversary of its theatrical release (1966 - 2011) and its filming in Ambler, PA."

[quote]Here is a link to actress June Harding's personal website and her very special pages for Angels fans! Her revealing "letters home" during the filming are a must-read!!

I guess die-hard fans of TTWA aren't the only ones who think it's a classic. It was recently screened at MoMA ("Lupino’s last theatrical directorial effort shows her ease and skill with comedy, melodrama, and pop culture") along with another Lupino film, "Never Fear (The Young Lovers)"...

[quote]A contract studio actress, Lupino’s interest in directing began while she was on suspension for turning down a role. Lupino and then-husband Collier Young formed an independent production company, The Filmakers, and went on to make several other socially aware films. Lupino is considered influential in the development of the American independent cinema movement.

Mary: "...but how could you give it up?"

Mother: "I found something better."

Reverend Mother: But in the future, please try to remember that St. Francis is not a training school for counter-spies. Er... how good are they?

Rache: They're just as rotten as we are!

Mr Petrie: "The finest educational minds in the country happen to be on our side."

Mother Superior: "God is on ours."

The actor who played Mr. Petrie was quite attractive.

[quote]The actor who played Mr. Petrie was quite attractive.

That was Jim Hutton, unbilled in this movie. He died young and was the father of Timothy Hutton.

"And poor Marvel Ann is still at the school, despite having graduated in the original film."

she a senyor this yeer, like mes

Spare a thought for me R92.

Great movie!

Hayley Mills has done countless speaking engagements about her career or in conjunction with the presentation of one of her movies, and what I've read is she didn't know until decades later what Roz Russell said about her in Russell's autobiography (Russell sort of ascribed what she claimed was Hayley's dislike to Hayley being overripe hormonally, and needing an outlet for sexual frustration). Mills responded with a bit of surprise but said that Russell was a great beauty and a great star and everybody treated her with respect even if they didn't get to know her.

Russell's autobiography was finished by her widower because she died before it was published, so I've always wondered if he goosed it with stuff like the comment about Hayley, in order to juice sales.

I saw TTWA when I was 9 years old and loved it. A few years ago I found out online that June Harding retired from acting and is an artist living in Maine. I wrote a letter and received a charming reply, thanking me for my interest (the "J" in June was drawn to resemble an angel!). I have the letter still.

Rosalind Russell's autobiography is full of exaggerations and outright lies. Some famous person (I forget who) when asked to provide a blurb for the back of the book's dust jacket, declined saying, "I refuse to endorse a work of fiction."

Russell claims in the bio that she and director Morton da Costa re-wrote portions of the script of Auntie Mame. Authors Lawrence and Lee vigorously deny this and apparently Russell was claiming it even while the show was running. Greer Garson joked with the writers that she wouldn't be quite so proprietary of the role as her predecessor had been.

When Russell was about to leave the Broadway company of Auntie Mame to make the film, someone, quite likely Roz herself, "leaked" to the NY papers that the show would have to close and never tour without its definitive star. Supposedly she made sure the playwrights were not hired to write the screenplay because they angered her by arguing to keep the play running without her.

[quote]Russell's autobiography was finished by her widower because she died before it was published, so I've always wondered if he goosed it with stuff like the comment about Hayley, in order to juice sales.

I once heard her husband referred to as "The Lizard of Roz."

excuse me R101, but Jim Hutton was billed in this movie.

Just watched "The Trouble With Angels" for like the hundredth time, and I still find it funny. Jim Hutton has a substantial role; I can't imagine why he isn't in the credits. I noticed that the DVD cover, advertising and the opening credits show a nun on a bicycle. There is no such scene in the movie, so this must have been a scene that was deleted late in the editing process.

Another

I really liked "The Trouble With Angels." Russell was perfect as Reverend Mother and Hayley Mills and June Harding were perfect as the girls. The ending was sad, but affecting; Rachel really has lost her best friend....to God. Although they pledge to write, it's obvious they're heading on completely different paths and likely will never see each other again. But it seems right. That Mary, with her iron will, would make such a life changing decision says something about her character. She knows who she is and what she wants. As Reverent Mother said, the decision "is not an easy one....but it is a joyful one."

I didn't like the sequel with Stella Stevens as the hip, 60s nun. I thought it was stunt casting; a blonde sexpot as a nun. Obviously she was only supposed to be a foil for Reverend Mother. The original movie was much better.

I never knew of Stella Stevens or her sexpot reputation; I'd only seen her in Where Angels Go and Poseiden Adventure and I thought she was perfectly believable in both roles.

Stella Stevens with a sexpot, alright. She did a nude spread for Playboy. She played Appassionata Von Climax in "L'il Abner." She was in the Elvis Presley movie "Girls!Girls!Girls!" She was Miss Purdy in "The Nutty Professor." She was definitely that type.

I saw this movie as a boy when it first came out. It was the first time I cried at the end of the movie.

It was so unexpected, heartbreaking and yet so right.

I wanted a male relationship like their female relationship. Complete soulmates who have to inevitably part when prep school was over.

No sex of course because I wasn't yet 10 and homosexuality didn't exist in the mid 60s in suburban NJ.

Still it would have been a passionate friendship and the memory would have been a bittersweet one for the rest of our lives.

THE TROUBLE WITH ANGELS is a delight, from the witty animated opening credits to the touching ending. Both Mills and Harding are excellent. I never fail to get choked up over the death of Sister Ligouri and the ending (I know, Mary!)

The sequel ... not so much!

I think one thing that hurts the sequel is removing most of the story from the convent. In TTWA, the whole setting along with a larger cast of nuns, works better in the convent setting. There's more interaction between the nuns and the students. The sequel tried to branch out by sending them out on the road and I don't think the concept worked as well.

The sequel repeats that scene of the bus over and over again

Which scene? They're on the bus for much of the movie

It's when they start their trip from one place to another. You see the lines on the road as the the bus enters the highway and that same instrumental clip of the theme music plays. It happens multiple times.

Rare, and thankfully unused Trouble With Angels theme music. This would have totally changed the mood of the movie.

You're right, R121, that music was saccharine and trite, and they were smart to replace it with the music that used instead.

The soundtrack of TTWA was never put on cd and a stereo version of the LP is rare and very expensive.

I have no idea why. I like the music but it's not A Summer Place.

It really is one of those charming movies that sneaks up on you and leaves you with a lump in throat. Brilliant performances, direction and musical score.

This is hilarious:. The Trouble With Angels recut as a horror movie - The Trouble With Demons

Christmas at St. Francis

I was impressed in the Christmas scene how a group of nuns were able to sound like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

How many NUN roles has Mary Wickes played? Just the two? (In four movies)

Marvel Ann = MOST DEFINITELY RETARDED

[quote]How many NUN roles has Mary Wickes played? Just the two? (In four movies)

She also played Nun Sister Paula Carter in an episode of "Here's Lucy" entitled "Lucy and Her All-Nun Band".

She is my favorite part of my Christmas Eve tradition of watching "White Christmas".

The soundtrack has been out for 2 years I think.

A teenage Susan St. James has a prominent role in the sequel, but watch out for DL fave Vicki Lawrence, too. She's just one of the girls on the bus, but she has at least one line.

I had no idea it was now out. I gave up checking on it.

While I've had the Trouble with Angels soundtrack for many years (first on an LP, now on CD), what I'd practically kill for is the unreleased soundtrack to the sequel, Where Angels Go, Trouble Follows. Boyce & Hart released a 45 in 1968 which was a variation of the song they sing in the dance sequence at the Boy's school, but it didn't even chart....and deservedly so-it really sucks. Lalo Schifrin composed the score but as it's admittedly as riveting as elevator music, he's hardly likely to embrace the idea of releasing it 48 years later.

You'd be surprised what movies get soundtrack releases, R134.

Why would you kill for it if it sucks so much and is as riveting as elevator music?

Are you a Lalo Schifrin completist?

I get that.

I'd kill for the soundtrack of The Glass Bottom Boat but I don't believe there ever was one.

Just the 45.

No, I'm not a Lalo Schifrin completist, r136, but I adore elevator music, which is why I love the score to WAGTF. Hell, I consider Pet Clark cutting edge so that gives you some idea of the sort of music I enjoy :)

^^^Oopsie...that should read Percy Faith

Ha!

I'm into Ray Conniff myself.

Not that I'd admit it to anyone.

Climb Every Mountain is great.

It has a doo wop swing to it.

I'm surprised male quartets have never used the arrangement.

Think Smoke Gets Your Eyes.

"How are the mumps, Marvel Anne?" "Drop dead!" "That's gratitude for you.."

So a previous poster kindly lets me know that TTWA soundtrack is available on cd when after many years of looking for it I gave up.

It is indeed available on Amazon from just one seller in the entire country for $72.90.

What the hell is it with this soundtrack?

Learn to use the Internet. $20

Ha!

Now I have to give up being pissed off that's it's not only not available on CD but it's not available at a reasonable price as well!

So how do these sellers get away with these outrageous prices?

I am always enchanted but the tightrope the brilliant Ida Lupino walks between comedy and drama with heart and a deep but sly affection. It truly is a deserved classic.

The scene in the old folks home always breaks my heart. Especially the short bit with Russell consoling the lady whose family didn't come to see her on Christmas.

TTWA is a true story. The author kept in touch with he Nun friend.

Madonna's song "Angel" hit #5 on Billboard's Top Pop Hits

R125 that was great. I laughed out loud at work and everyone is wondering what is wrong with me.

there were plays for a third film in the series--"Beneath the Trouble of the Ultra-Angels"--but for some reason, Roz Russell would not come to terms with the studio.

Miss Novak and Miss . . . de Lis

I read the funniest story that Ida Lupino was quite the drinker and by the afternoon, she was so shitfaced she could barely direct. Well, Roz Russell had enough and called the producer, William Frye, and said, "You've got to fire Ida. She's having these drinks." Well, Frye had a long talk with Lupino, and she stopped drinking at least during working hours.

Mary Wickes, who was unable to swim, was ordered to take swimming lessons at the YMCA by William Frye, the producer, for the pool scene with Mills and Harding. But for some reason, Wickes didn't take the lessons and wouldn't jump in the pool on the day of shooting. Ida Lupino, furious with Wickes, called Frye and he suggested they hire a stunt double to play Wickes from the back and have the double jump in the deep end of the pool.

Wickes is only seen in close-up at the shallow end of the pool and had to be escorted in and out the water by assistants. This incident caused the production several thousands of dollars and put them behind schedule.

Got a fire going, opening some wine, and sitting down for the annual holiday "Trouble With Angels" viewing. It's going to be scathingly brilliant!

The ending is still shocking but bittersweetly beautiful.

I've always loved this movie since I first saw it at age 9. Why the hell are the original book and the soundtrack so expensive?? In this digital age, why should that be?

I liked the first movie. The second, not do much.

R146. The author, Jane Trahey, was also a lesbian and a pioneer for women in advertising and PR.

I love The Trouble with Angels.

In This House of Brede is also good RE: convent life / coming of age (of sorts)

Jane Trahey gave us "Promise Him Anything" and the Blackglama series.

TROUBLE WITH ANGELS - yes!

WHERE ANGELS GO TROUBLE FOLLOWS - fuck, no. NO. Just no.

The sequel is...ok. It would've been a lot better with Hayley Mills back, but it's nice spending another 90 minutes with the Reverend Mother.

I saw them both at a double feature at Cinefamily about a month before it went under.

I did love the progressive reforms at the end of WAGTF with the sisters wearing new habits. I remember when this happened in my grade school. One of the nuns told us with the old habits she had to use Christmas cards to keep the head thing straight and on. She also said they were only allowed to drink sugar free soft drinks (Fresca) and there were seven nuns to a 'cell' (room). It was strange hearing all this from her. Oh, and we used to as a treat, watch the film of TTWA in our cafeteria once a year.

Have it on DVD and played it to 11 yo niece, and its something she and her pals love to watch. Watching Roz I'm struck how her eyes are so expressive, be they showing exasperation or tenderness.

"Band uniforms are non-sectarian."

r158 "In This House of Brede" is one of my favorites. I have the book on which the film is based, there's a lot more in it than made it onto the screen. The film is on YouTube, and I watch it occasionally. It's entertaining, and rather soothing in an odd sort of way. The author, Rumor Goden, is responsible for the book on which a DL fave film is based, "Black Narcissus."

RIP to an actress from one of my favorite movies.

No love for this movie?!

The real-life Rachel (Jane Trahey) was a lesbian and a pioneer as a woman in advertising and PR.

WAGTF has a groovey theme song.

I have both on DVD. Saint Francis forever!

They should've formed a girls softball team and made another sequel. I have the perfect title.

Harding was positively ancient (almost 30) playing a teen. The plot and the direction of the sequel are all wrong--the wrong notes all around. The original came at a time when prejudice toward Catholic people had ceased to be fashionable--the JFK presidency and the Second Vatican Council really changed things---you could make something that had humor as well as pathos, unlike those dreadful Crosby and Barry Fitzgerald as priest epics. OTOH, you could never make a Protestant film like this--Protestantism has no self-referential humor---it's all about saying something nasty about other Protestant denominations or about Catholics. Between that and the endless cycles of fundamentalism, it's easy to dismiss Protestantsim as irrelevant w/o getting misty about Catholicism.

Lupino directed a lot of episodic tv., everything from Twilight Zone to The Donna Reed Show (Reed was a proto-feminist, so this was no suprise). She and husband Howard Duff were notorious drunks, often nasty and violent with each other, although the marriage lasted a long time, before they divorced.

One of my favorite movies. I love the ending. Mary Clancy's spiritual growth is very moving, and the movie should be more revered for the beautifully designed character development alone. The sequel has its moments, but it's so shallow, and I hate it when the Sisters change their habits. The mystery of Catholicism, with its strangely clad nuns, beautiful liturgy and sense of mystery was destroyed in the sixties, and I resent having all of that beauty thrown out in favor of banners, bull dyke nuns wearing the business suits they purchased at JC Penney,kumbaya on the guitar, and pedophile priests.

I like the sequel better than the original.

I was amazed as a child to see Linda Rogo of The Poseidon Adventure play a nun in the sequel.

I love the ending, too, R173. Never fails to put a lump in my throat.

I’ve never seen it.

Do we know anything about the adult life of the real person Mary was based on? Did she remain a nun (we know Rachel became an ad/PR lesbian).

R178...

Who the hell was Mary Courtney (mentioned in the obit)

You don't see enough nuns nowadays. In the Airport movies there is always a nun onboard. i don't think I've ever been on a plane with a nun. (the are quite useful they help the doctors and sing to the sick during air disasters)

Nins weren't exactly omnipresent in the past. even after Vatican II, they mostly stayed in cloistered environments, taught, etc.

I first saw TTWA while visiting my sister in the convent in late 70s/early 80s. An appropriate setting, indeed, and still watch it whenever it is on. The building used for exterior shots, on Bethlehem Pike, in Ambler, PA, is now used by a children’s social services organization.

Groovy video of June from Fox:

The sequel features an interesting closing credit. Apparently half the girls who go on the road trip were played by contest winners in some teen magazine. One girl was chosen from each of the several states in which the "road picture" was filmed. These girls stayed in the background and had no speaking lines. As extras, their pay probably consisted only of being allowed to go along for the ride, appear in the film and receive a screen credit. A cheap way for the producers to fill up the school bus.

(Into her bullhorn, right in Roz's ear) One, two, buckle my shoe...Oh, sorry Reverand Mother.