Hello and thank you for being a DL contributor. We are changing the login scheme for contributors for simpler login and to better support using multiple devices. Please click here to update your account with a username and password.

Hello. Some features on this site require registration. Please click here to register for free.

Hello and thank you for registering. Please complete the process by verifying your email address. If you can't find the email you can resend it here.

Hello. Some features on this site require a subscription. Please click here to get full access and no ads for $1.99 or less per month.

Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis

It has been many years since she died, even more since she sat next to her husband as his head was shot off. I was born after that, and my parents always had mixed things to say about her. She "held the country together" but then she made the "bone headed move" [my Mom with a rosary] of marrying Onassis. Enough time has gone by. How does History remember her. How do the fine folks of Datalounge?

by Anonymousreply 458July 22, 2020 6:16 AM

he told her the right thing

by Anonymousreply 1November 19, 2013 3:21 AM

I'll never forget seeing her up close one day at Caroline's graduation from Harvard in 1980. She possessed a simply extraordinary charisma that was ethereal and undefinable. Crowds literally parted for her as she walked through Harvard Yard. I've never seen anything like it since. The next day I was standing on the library steps taking photographs of the ceremonies and I happened to turn around and John, Jr. and Jackie were standing right behind me smiling and laughing. She was dressed in a red and white polka dot skirt with a white jacket and sunglasses. Simply stunning. And I was so damn stunned I couldn't even take a picture. Damn!

by Anonymousreply 2November 19, 2013 3:34 AM

She's a cunt.

by Anonymousreply 3November 19, 2013 3:57 AM

She treated Aristotle Onassis like shit. Jackie was nothing but a gold-digger.

by Anonymousreply 4November 19, 2013 3:58 AM

"ZHAH-kleen" always ran the tap water in the bathroom when other people were in the house and she needed to take a shit. Me and Pat and Jean and Eunice used to have a good laugh about that!!

by Anonymousreply 5November 19, 2013 4:01 AM

She was obsessed with money and standing; that was it. She was an incredibly shallow woman.

by Anonymousreply 6November 19, 2013 4:03 AM

CBS Sunday Morning deboted their entire episode on Sunday to JFK. I was surprised to hear her voice when talking to LBJ. Did she talk like that or was that an act?

by Anonymousreply 7November 19, 2013 4:05 AM

She did talk like that r7. She hopelessly deboted to her husband!

by Anonymousreply 8November 19, 2013 4:09 AM

She had a great performance at the funeral, but when she was speaking with LBJ not that long after it was clear she had no desire to dwell on the past.

by Anonymousreply 9November 19, 2013 4:15 AM

She had a very full bush.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 10November 19, 2013 4:25 AM

My parents felt the Kennedys are a bunch of phony snobs who wouldn't let the "little people" within 50 years of themselves.

by Anonymousreply 11November 19, 2013 4:29 AM

She was nothing more than a glorified courtesan.

by Anonymousreply 12November 19, 2013 4:53 AM

She's no princess.

by Anonymousreply 13November 19, 2013 4:59 AM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 14November 19, 2013 5:05 AM

She did the best she could. She went after the money because she wanted to give her children a better future.

Her daughter is a bitch though, especially her husband.

by Anonymousreply 15November 19, 2013 5:07 AM

Christina Onassis hated Jackie so much that she gave her $26 million just to get rid of her.

by Anonymousreply 16November 19, 2013 5:09 AM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 17November 19, 2013 5:16 AM

She was a good mother, nothing else really matters.

by Anonymousreply 18November 19, 2013 5:58 AM

Ultimately, R18 is correct. Jackie Kennedy might've been a frivolous whore, but she was clearly a fantastic mother. Both of her children went to law school and did pretty well for themselves. They also weren't fucked up like most of their cousins (especially Bobby and Ethel's kids).

by Anonymousreply 19November 19, 2013 6:04 AM

R19. Ethel had 11 kids to keep track of. Jackie had two.

by Anonymousreply 20November 19, 2013 6:10 AM

Ethel was a shitty mother who shouldn't have knocked out more kids than she could handle. And quantity is no excuse when Rose Kennedy (a notorious bitch) managed to do a decent job raising 9 children (to include a President, Attorney General, Senator, and Marchioness!).

by Anonymousreply 21November 19, 2013 6:17 AM

R21. Well get a load of Rose. She raised a marchioness.

by Anonymousreply 22November 19, 2013 6:32 AM

R12 has the right word. The greatest in world history. There was nothing else besides getting .. stuff.

by Anonymousreply 23November 19, 2013 7:41 AM

She married Onassis after Bobby was killed because she was frightened and wanted to get her kids out of the US and under some solid protection. (I'm quite sure she didn't buy the "lone gunman" theory.)

Sure she would have married a multi-millionaire in any case, but that's the story on why it was Onassis and why then.

Also, nobody ever talks about this but she MUST have had post-traumatic stress disorder for years after. Having someone's brains blown into your lap in the middle of an ordinary afternoon would traumatise a seasoned marine, and she was already fragile from a late-stage miscarriage a month or two before.

by Anonymousreply 24November 19, 2013 8:06 AM

Yes, courtesan is the right word. She wasn't very bright but it didn't matter. She did what was expected of her.

She remarried six months after Bobby's assassination. He was killed in April, she was married in October. Onassis, one of the richest men in the world, offered her safety for herself and her children, along with a reason to leave the US. I can't fault her for any of that.

In the minds of most people, she is Jackie Kennedy, Jack's widow and an iconic figure. The Onassis marriage is ignored.

by Anonymousreply 25November 19, 2013 8:13 AM

r10 shows a typical Junior Leaguer physique of the era. She probably would wear as much bush these days, if any.

Jackie's dad used to work for Onassis during Prohibition, so she knew Onassis from childhood. Allegedly had an affair with him in her teens. Probably had Onassis in her sights since childhood. Took a while to bag him, though.

by Anonymousreply 26November 19, 2013 8:17 AM

She was an ordinary slut who just happened to have a good fashion sense.

by Anonymousreply 27November 19, 2013 8:23 AM

[quote]He was killed in April,

June

by Anonymousreply 28November 19, 2013 8:29 AM

[quote] She married Onassis after Bobby was killed because she was frightened and wanted to get her kids out of the US and under some solid protection. (I'm quite sure she didn't buy the "lone gunman" theory.)

The media has been saying this for decades, but her kids stayed in the U.S. Jackie moved to Greece, but her kids stayed in their private schools in America. And she barely moved to Greece. It was more like she took a lot of extended vacations outside of the U.S. She was in NYC most of her marriage to Onassis

by Anonymousreply 29November 19, 2013 9:53 AM

R7, I'm hopelessly deboted to YOU!

by Anonymousreply 30November 19, 2013 10:22 AM

My boyfriend's grandmother went to school with her for two years, I think. She said that Jackie was very quiet and kept to herself. They, the girls at school, couldn't figure out if she was snobby or intimidated by the other girls.

by Anonymousreply 31November 19, 2013 11:56 AM

I'm still dead bitches!

by Anonymousreply 32November 19, 2013 12:03 PM

[quote]I was surprised to hear her voice when talking to LBJ. Did she talk like that or was that an act?

She did talk like that,--it was a lifelong affectation. Norman Mailer said she sounded completely stoned during her famous televised White House tour, but she thought that's how alluring women were supposed to sound. It was part of her courtesan thing.

by Anonymousreply 33November 19, 2013 2:55 PM

[quote]What the fuck was an upper-class woman who was born in the 1920s supposed to do? Go to law school? Medical school? Start her own business?

Upper-class women born in the 20s and even before did all those things.

by Anonymousreply 34November 19, 2013 2:56 PM

I was living in West Germany when Onassis died. A couple of days after his death a German newspaper published a cartoon of a newspaper with the headline "Jackie O. to marry Brezhnev!"

by Anonymousreply 35November 19, 2013 3:06 PM

She wasn't a stupid woman. She could speak French and Spanish fluently, and she knew a good deal about art and literature. And she had enough smarts to get that plum job as the inquiring photographer girl for a major metropolitan newspaper out of college. If she stayed on that career track, I bet she could have done fairly decently in journalism.

Her trouble was that she was shallow. Whether she was raised to be that way or as naturally that way (or both), she just wasn't very interested in politics other than in the most superficial, personality-oriented way.

She was a great mother to Caroline, apparently. Not so much to John-John--he was raised to be as shallow as Jackie was, and though he did get his requisite degrees, he really didn't do all that much with his life (even though he lived well into his 30s) except get lots of pussy and kill his wife and sister-in-law and himself through his own arrogance and incompetence.

by Anonymousreply 36November 19, 2013 3:09 PM

[quote] Upper-class women born in the 20s and even before did all those things.

Sure, a very tiny percentage. It wasn't the norm and wasn't expected of women.

by Anonymousreply 37November 19, 2013 3:15 PM

An artful transvestite.

by Anonymousreply 38November 19, 2013 3:21 PM

She could have paid for more than just a shitty paint job.

by Anonymousreply 39November 19, 2013 3:24 PM

Jackie was a trophy, and she leveraged it for as much as she could. Good on her. Her post Onassis existence was full of cultural activities and fund raising. She saved Grand Central Station. I wish she were still around to face down plutocrats like Bloomberg who have fucked up the city. Rich folks with a sense of history and noblesse oblige helped make NYC great. She kept her children away from the rest of the Kennedy family for the most part, away from the drug use and dysfunction.

I worked around Caroline Kennedy for a while a few years ago - right after her Senatorial explorative went south, and found her to be quite nice, and very bright; I never once mentioned her family or made any reference that I even knew anything about her at all and that is her preferred mode of working with most people. It's a drag to be in a room where everyone thinks they know all about your mom, her affairs, your dad, his affairs, your brother's death, etc etc etc and that they can just start talking to you about the most private of things. I cut her a lot of slack.

by Anonymousreply 40November 19, 2013 3:24 PM

Aristotle Onassis was a piece of shit.

by Anonymousreply 41November 19, 2013 3:25 PM

I'm old. I liked her. I liked her then, and now that we've found out more about her, and I can reflect on it, I like her even more now. I can't even imagine what it must have been like for her at the age of 34, to be sitting next to your husband and have someone blow out his brains into your lap.

Looking at photos and clips from that Texas visit, it's pretty clear to me they seemed very happy, and enjoying themselves and enjoyed being together. She looked so happy to be with him, had no problem being the politician's wife, doing the meet & greets.

Not only did she restore the White House, she set things up so that it would never again fall into disrepair, and that it would become a cherished part of our lives.

We take a lot for granted today, that she initiated. Jacqueline Kennedy was responsible for the creation of the National Endowments for the Arts and Humanities, the Kennedy Center, and for putting the arts & American history & culture into the mainstream.

All First Ladies leave their mark, but very few have had the impact she's had. I don't judge her for her personal decisions. My thing is, "So what?" She raised two wonderful human beings, and I'm glad she didn't live to see her son die.

by Anonymousreply 42November 19, 2013 3:26 PM

She was hardly stupid person.

by Anonymousreply 43November 19, 2013 3:34 PM

Agree, R41, which is why Jackie spent most of her time in NYC, and those last years of his, whenever he wanted to visit her, she told him the apartment was undergoing renovations. He'd stay in a hotel, get pissed, then go back to France, or Greece, or London.

In her defense, once his son was killed, he went kind of crazy. Then his old friends, Greek retainers, and Christina started calling Jackie "the Black Widow," and referred to her as a witch who jinxed him.

They said she was bad luck, so WTF would she want to try to be around those people, and try to function in such an inhospitable atmosphere. She had her own kids to see about.

When they were first married, they were close and got along well. He was sympathetic and indulged her, and for her, being around him was therapeutic. This was right after Bobby was shot and she was very close to Bobby. Very close. I think no one was more relieved than Ethel, that Jackie married Onassis.

by Anonymousreply 44November 19, 2013 3:36 PM

Well, A. Onassis was the male equivalent of a gold digger; he married into the shipping business after various small rackets that he had going in South America. (At one point, he was rolling cigarettes.) Everywhere he went he was a vulgar, vile, chauvinistic SOB.

by Anonymousreply 45November 19, 2013 3:42 PM

I don't consider Jackie "gold digger." She was a product of a social milieu and a time where, while she was part of the upper class thru birth and upbringing. Both of her parents, each in their own way, consciously and unconsciously, impressed on her & her sister, how important financial stability was as the main goal of every woman. Get it the best way you can.

by Anonymousreply 46November 19, 2013 3:53 PM

It is sad that both Onassis and Jackie lost their only sons to plane crashes. I used to think there must be a jinx on people as rich as they were. So much death in old money families. If you look at the founders of old fortunes, you will see a lot of branches cut short from the family tree due to suicide. And many of those suicides happened in planes, either because of inept usage or a death wish. One of NYC's oldest monied families has lost a male heir of every generation going back to the 30s. There is one heir left to this great fortune. His occupation? Pilot.

by Anonymousreply 47November 19, 2013 4:06 PM

I don't think anyone would trade places with her in the back of the car in Dallas. Considering that trauma, she lived her life amazingly well.

by Anonymousreply 48November 19, 2013 4:10 PM

If I looked like John Jr. I would probably be shallow too. Seriously, I think he was one of the most beautiful men of the last 50 years.

Do you think Ari had a big dick or was a good fuck?

by Anonymousreply 49November 19, 2013 4:12 PM

I love her for her restoration efforts of Grand Central Station in NYC. I loved when she'd be spotted strolling around Central Park with her undivorced long-time Jewish boyfriend Maurice Templesman. And that she worked as an editor at Doubleday. I can only imagine what the meeting between her and Madonna was like when John was screwing her. I have a feeling she was probably one of the few people who could intimidate Madonna.

I read the book Jackie O! when I was about 10 years old, and even then I could tell she married Ari for money and to get her away from being Americas Grieving Widow.

by Anonymousreply 50November 19, 2013 4:13 PM

OT, but did you know Rose Kennedy was created a countess by The Pope? So not only did her daughter marry a marquess and become a marchioness, Rose became a countess (of The Vatican) in her own right. It was a legit title, bestowed by the absolute ruler of a sovereign country. I think she also had one of those regal looking sashes that titled women wear on dressy occasions.

by Anonymousreply 51November 19, 2013 4:34 PM

R47,

He's an heir to a fortune and he's a commercial pilot?

by Anonymousreply 52November 19, 2013 4:37 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 53November 19, 2013 4:51 PM

R52, I should have said "pre-occupation." And many wealthy types have an unnatural pre-occupation with flying. If you remember the movie Love Story, Ryan O'Neal's character was supposed to represent a member of the jinxed Baker family.

Quote: "[The late] Anthony Baker was a scion of a famous American New York banking family. He was a gentle man and wore his heritage with a modesty that used to be admired as a measure of class and aristocracy. His great-grandfather George F. Baker started First National City Bank in the last quarter of the 19th century, which over the years has morphed into what is known as Citigroup today. Great-grandfather Baker provided much of the initial funding for the Harvard Business School. The Baker Library at Dartmouth is named for him, as is Baker Field at Columbia University.

Tragedy has stalked the male line of the Baker family for decades. Anthony’s father, George F. Baker Jr., shot himself to death in 1977 at his 13,000-acre plantation in Florida. He was 62. Twenty-eight years before on the same property, Baker Jr.’s younger brother Grenville Kane Baker was killed by a bullet in the head, not self-inflicted. Three years ago, Anthony Baker’s older brother, George Baker III, also a very experienced pilot, was killed piloting his plane into the Nantucket airport on an especially bad night for navigation."

by Anonymousreply 54November 19, 2013 4:56 PM

R54,

Some wealthy people do, but that's not being jinxed. Flying small prop planes are dangerous for everyone who engages in that hobby--rich or middle class.

They're adults, they make high-risk choices. What can you do?

by Anonymousreply 55November 19, 2013 6:38 PM

**is dangerous

by Anonymousreply 56November 19, 2013 6:41 PM

Wait Madonna met Jackie?? Gay world collision!! Wonder what that was about?

by Anonymousreply 57November 19, 2013 8:17 PM

I once saw her when she was married to Onassis. She was standing outside the Lausanne Palace hotel (which Onassis owned). She had an enormous head and enormous feet. The thing that most shocked me was her hair wasn't black or dark brown, but henna red.

End of encounter.

by Anonymousreply 58November 19, 2013 8:23 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 59November 19, 2013 9:38 PM

#31 -- Your boyfriends grandmother probably knew my mother -- her roommate at Miss P's...

by Anonymousreply 60November 19, 2013 10:00 PM

hey r60, dish everything you know!

by Anonymousreply 61November 19, 2013 10:17 PM

I wonder how much all those fancy "energy" injections she and JFK used to get, contributed to her cancer? I knew she smoked, but I had no idea she was a heavy smoker. Damn.

by Anonymousreply 62November 19, 2013 10:37 PM

She exited this world on her terms.

She checked herself out of the hospital, went home, gathered her longtime companion and family around her and took a fatal dose of morphine.

No lingering illness and slow death for her.

When she decided it was over, she ended it.

by Anonymousreply 63November 19, 2013 10:56 PM

I don't get how she didn't lose her mind after seeing JFK getting shot like that. She kept going.

by Anonymousreply 64November 19, 2013 11:23 PM

She was a hoooooooor.

by Anonymousreply 65November 19, 2013 11:38 PM

63, are you saying she committed suicide or Assisted suicide? Because I got the impression that wasn't the case. As I understood it, she had the option of getting more cancer treatment, but she decided not to, and that was how she "ended it." She decided to enjoy what little time she had by spending it with her family and friends. I recall a photo of her out walking with Maurice just a couple days before she died.

by Anonymousreply 66November 19, 2013 11:43 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 67November 19, 2013 11:44 PM

[quote]I don't get how she didn't lose her mind after seeing JFK getting shot like that.

She kept hers, and a couple of pieces of his.

by Anonymousreply 68November 20, 2013 12:06 AM

[quote] I recall a photo of her out walking with Maurice just a couple days before she died.

Have you ever been with someone who dies from cancer?

They're not out walking a couple of days before.

Unless they're going to check out on their terms.

by Anonymousreply 69November 20, 2013 12:07 AM

So much talk about her feet - how large were they really? I know she did go shoe shopping with journalist Charlayne Hunter-Gault, because Gault knew the stores in NYC that had the sizes to fit their massive gunboats.

by Anonymousreply 70November 20, 2013 12:41 AM

[quote[Sure, a very tiny percentage. It wasn't the norm and wasn't expected of women.

The thing is, brave women who wanted to work did it (and it was more than just "a tiny percentage"). Jackie wrote in her Miss Porter's yearbook that her goal in life was not to become a housewife, and yet for a long time that's exactly what she did.

by Anonymousreply 71November 20, 2013 1:42 AM

Joan Bennett (Kennedy) & Jackie Auchincloss (Kennedy-Onassis) are the only ones in that entire family that I like. And the late John Jr. Everyone else is a scammer, woman-killer, woman-rapist, sociopathic, alcoholic POS. That includes the younger generation.

by Anonymousreply 72November 20, 2013 1:45 AM

[quote]Not only did she restore the White House, she set things up so that it would never again fall into disrepair...

Actually, The White House was completely gutted, and restored under Harry Truman from around 1948-1950. Jackie may have redecorated, but the place was practically brand new again by the time she moved in.

Avarice is such a grotesque quality.

by Anonymousreply 73November 20, 2013 3:02 AM

She had the filthiest mouth of any first lady by far.

by Anonymousreply 74November 20, 2013 3:07 AM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 75November 20, 2013 3:08 AM

What you say is true, R73, the infrastructure of the physical building was renovated. But they didn't do the historical restoration. To describe what Jackie did as redecorating demonstrates a lack of understanding of the task she undertook, and what she achieved. Harry Truman had nothing to do with the structural rehab. It happened while he was in office, but he didn't initiate it or supervise it. It was basically a construction project.

by Anonymousreply 76November 20, 2013 3:29 AM

It wasn't that the Trumans had horrible taste- it ws budgeting after the big rebuilding effort. Add to this the fact that the Trumans only moved back in not too long before his second term ended.

by Anonymousreply 77November 20, 2013 3:33 AM

R66, R69 Jackie was diagnosed with a highly malignant form of non-Hodgkins lymphoma. Initially, she responded to therapy and experienced a short remission but then relapsed with disease progression to her brain and liver. Suffice to say, her immune system was weakened due to the disease process and the treatment regimen of chemotherapy and radiation. In addition, that last week of her life, she was also diagnosed with acute pneumonia. Once informed nothing else could be done to treat the cancer, she refused any further treatment, including antibiotic therapy for the pneumonia, was discharged home from the short hospitalization and died a few days after lapsing into a coma. I was always under the impression the immediate cause of death was the untreated pneumonia. (I recall photos taken of Jackie toward the end of her life, strolling outside with Caroline, grandchildren and with Templesman. I doubt these photos were taken a couple of days before her death as she was very debilitated and bed-ridden toward the very end.)

by Anonymousreply 78November 20, 2013 6:08 AM

I did some research, and the last photos of her out were in April, with Maurice Templesman. She had on sunglasses, and a heavy coat and scarf that seemed to emphasize how frail she'd become.

On about April 14th, her health took a bad turn and she was hospitalized for bleeding ulcers caused by the chemo and radiation, etc. The cancer had spread to her brain, her liver, her lungs.

She was in and out of the hospital, when they discovered she had pneumonia, and her kidneys were failing, she said, enough. She wanted to go home. She died on May 19th about four months after being diagnosed with cancer. Or at least from the time we heard she had it.

There was no suicide. It makes sense that, at a certain point, there is nothing they can do but prolong the dying process. I've seen it in my own family. She refused treatment for the pneumonia, and wished only to be kept comfortable.

by Anonymousreply 79November 20, 2013 12:41 PM

r60 - tell Sue hello.

by Anonymousreply 80November 20, 2013 1:01 PM

When JFK was asked to describe her in one word, he said "fey." Brilliant choice.

by Anonymousreply 81November 20, 2013 1:03 PM

Sadly jackie cared more about saving Grand Central Station than the homeless people who lived in it.

by Anonymousreply 82November 20, 2013 2:13 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 83November 20, 2013 2:30 PM

[quote]Sadly jackie cared more about saving Grand Central Station than the homeless people who lived in it.

"Sadly"?

You mean "Fortunately."

by Anonymousreply 84November 20, 2013 2:40 PM

So much sadness and pain in her life and yet she just glowed. She let her light shine. I really admire her. More and more as time passes. When I think about how young she was riding in that open car in Dallas. And all the scenes of the two of them and how happy she looked with him.

by Anonymousreply 85November 20, 2013 11:58 PM

I would really love to meet the people who call her "shallow" and see what they've done with their lives. I doubt r36 and r6 speak fluent French or have an ounce of the knowledge of art, literature and history that Jackie had. If you want to talk about "shallow," just click on any Lady Gaga, Real Housewives or Anderson Cooper thread.

by Anonymousreply 86November 21, 2013 12:11 AM

R24: yeah, Jackie said she wanted to leave the country, but the fact is her kids were education in private schools in NYC and to Ivy League Universities. She never really left.

by Anonymousreply 87November 21, 2013 12:38 AM

[quote] It is sad that both Onassis and Jackie lost their only sons to plane crashes

Definitely. A lot of Kennedys have been in plane crashes. Of course there was JFK Jr was killed in a plane crash. Teddy survived a plane crash and his brother (Joseph Jr) and sister (Kathleen) were both killed in planes.

Four members of one family being in four separate plane crashes? If I were a Kennedy I wouldn't go anywhere near a plane

by Anonymousreply 88November 21, 2013 12:46 AM

It's common knowledge that Jackie asked for and received a morphine drip once she left the hospital and went home to 1040 Fifth Avenue to die.

Her invitation only wake was held in her living room, to avoid the possibility of photos being taken and released of her body.

by Anonymousreply 89November 21, 2013 12:51 AM

[quote] I would really love to meet the people who call her "shallow" and see what they've done with their lives. I doubt [R36] and [R6] speak fluent French

I'm not disagreeing with you, but that's some fabulously high standard to you?

by Anonymousreply 90November 21, 2013 12:51 AM

Between the crude hair dye that was used on Jackie as far back as the 1950's for her prematurely gray hair and the three pack a day smoking habit, is it any surprise that her cause of death was cancer at 64?

by Anonymousreply 91November 21, 2013 12:54 AM

The pink pillbox hat Jackie wore on November 22 the location of it unknown, though Jackie's personal assistant Gallagher don't remember her first name was handed it by Jackie. The woman refuses to talk about it. I would guess that it is in her (or now her family's) possession.

I would imagine they would just want to hold on to it opposed to selling it to make money - something they probably could not do due to, IMO, some sort of outrage by the public or a demand by Caroline to return it. Caroline would sick her high paid attorney's on them.

The hat should be with the suit in the national archives.

by Anonymousreply 92November 21, 2013 1:24 AM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 93November 21, 2013 1:27 AM

Actually, Jackie paid $250,000.00 for her 15th floor penthouse apartment at 1040 Fifth Avenue in 1964.

by Anonymousreply 94November 21, 2013 1:45 AM

I've been with 8 family members who died, including three with cancer, and once they went designated as being ino hospice care, it usually took about four or five days. During that time, a morphine drip was standard procedure to keep them comfortable and alleviate anxiety. The drip was monitored by a skilled nursing professional, and in no way was it designed or intended to speed their departure. I think the common term is "resting quietly."

by Anonymousreply 95November 21, 2013 2:26 AM

Morphine also depresses respiration so in that way it does accelerate death. I'm a great supporter of Hospice, but this is why some traditional doctors, especially in the South, are wary of Hospice care.

by Anonymousreply 96November 21, 2013 2:31 AM

John Jr. would have been at Arlington today standing w the Kennedy family.

Would have been touching to see President Kennedy's namesake there. Jack Schlossberg seems to be the only one in the direct line to step up to the plate. Caroline moved to Japan.

by Anonymousreply 97November 21, 2013 2:41 AM

Jean the only surviving sibling. and with Ethel as the last surviving spouse.

It's just Jean and Ethel now of that generation?

by Anonymousreply 98November 21, 2013 2:42 AM

Speaking French and Spanish, as Mrs. Kennedy did, is surely a talent but not always a sign of high intelligence. Tennis players Roger Federer and Novak Djokovic each speak six or seven languages.

by Anonymousreply 99November 21, 2013 2:46 AM

Jack Schlossberg is a total hottie, reminds me of JFK Jr.

by Anonymousreply 100November 21, 2013 2:49 AM

All that money and Caroline has that awful hawk face because of her nose. She looks like most of her aunts. On her father's side. Very unfortunate. She could've had her nose done. A few discreet botox injections wouldn't hurt. It's not like she's so animated in the first place.

I watched her read her public statement after presenting her credentials to the Emperor of Japan. She obviously hates public speaking and was very dismissive, very perfunctory. Over there they'll interpret it as reticence. I guess in Japan, reticence is a virtue.

by Anonymousreply 101November 21, 2013 3:06 AM

She is probably very shy and very affected by her father's death.

She is well aware of his impact and that she is the sole surviving member of her immediate family and probably feels she needs to do what she does. She hates the public speaking but forces herself

If John Jr was still alive, he would probably have taken on more public speaking role, but she has had to do it all now.

by Anonymousreply 102November 21, 2013 3:56 AM

Her first TV interview in the White House. Totally, completely charming - how could you not love this woman?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 103November 21, 2013 4:17 AM

In 50 years who will be remembered (like Jackie is) as a female icon? I can't think of anyone.

by Anonymousreply 104November 21, 2013 4:43 AM

I have often wondered how the family was able to have a wake over several days at her residence. This is a bit grim but aren't there laws dealing with embalming being required? She died on May 19 and the funeral mass did not take place until May 23, according to wiki. Perhaps her body was taken to Frank Campbell Funeral Home nearby for embalming and returned to the apartment through the building's garage entrance?

by Anonymousreply 105November 21, 2013 5:41 AM

How can R25 say that Jackie wasn't very bright when she invented the dish, Lobster Cardinale?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 106November 21, 2013 6:04 AM

Actually, r99, it does take some intelligence to be able to learn and maintain fluency in multiple languages.

by Anonymousreply 107November 21, 2013 6:47 PM

R107,

Some intelligence, but not unusual intelligence. Taxi drivers all over the world can do this.

by Anonymousreply 108November 21, 2013 6:51 PM

French-speaker here. Don't know about her knowledge of other languages, but neither she nor her sister could speak French beyond schoolgirl stuff... which reminds me of a story..

I once had a neighbor who was a physical therapist at the Hôpital Nestlé (as it then was) in Lausanne. As I was American and I guess he wanted to impress me, one day all excited he tells me that he is Lee Radziwill's physical therapist. She had been in Lausanne for an operation (an abortion I think) and had been prescribed physical therapy. This guy was the ultimate physical therapist (he ended up being hired as Mobutu's personal physical therapist and disappeared to the Congo). One day he tells me that Radziwill told him she wanted to fuck him. He said "elle m'a dit 'si je n'avais pas un rhume, je te baiserai".

I had to break it to him that American students learn that 'baiser' means to kiss (as a verb). It's 'embrasser' in French. 'Baiser' means to fuck. A cold was more likely to prevent her from kissing him than fucking him.

by Anonymousreply 109November 21, 2013 7:06 PM

I could never get past her creepy Stepford wife on valium voice. No idea why people are obsessed with her.

by Anonymousreply 110November 21, 2013 7:16 PM

Mrs O most definitely spoke fluent French as easily as she spoke English. I heard her do so many time with my Parisian boss who spoke so fast I hardly understood a word. She was as comfortable in French as English, easily.

She was quite smart, quite funny, very down to earth although clearly aloof- and nice. She paid her bills on time, she treated any person from my very fancy boss to clerks the same. The breathy voice disappeared one on one into a much more solid voice- that breathy thing was kind of formal speak, when I think she was on guard and perhaps a bit nervous.

Now her sister, another story. In the time I got to kow Mrs. O, the Princess was somewhat of a mess- mercurical, shakey, kind of abrupt and even disoriented- distracted is a better word. I did not know but suspected she was having prescription drug abuse (and maybe alcohol too) problems at the time.

by Anonymousreply 111November 21, 2013 7:19 PM

Okay, kids, here we go--

Jackie in French.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 112November 21, 2013 7:24 PM

And here in Spanish in my home town.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 113November 21, 2013 7:48 PM

Just that whole cast of characters from those families - Ethel and her out of control brood, Rose and Joseph, Ted and Joan, Lee, Big and Little Edie. Just so much going on.

by Anonymousreply 114November 21, 2013 7:50 PM

R105,

There are some things it's probably best not to wonder about.

by Anonymousreply 115November 21, 2013 7:55 PM

Actually, I've seen some videos of Caroline recently where she strongly resembles Jackie, particularly through the eyes. It must be a mannerism thing while in motion, because she always looked 100% Kennedy to me.

It surprised me.

by Anonymousreply 116November 21, 2013 7:57 PM

The eyes and the bridge of the nose during her confirmation hearing.

It must be the aging.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 117November 21, 2013 8:00 PM

Caroline seems to be a far less affected cunt than her mom ever was. She seems very down to earth. Her use of the word "like" could give a valley girl a run for her money!

by Anonymousreply 118November 21, 2013 8:15 PM

[quote]In 50 years who will be remembered (like Jackie is) as a female icon?

Women who actually did something productive with their lives who were not just useless clotheshorses, I would imagine. For example:

Sandra O'Connor

Hillary Clinton

Nancy Pelosi

Dianne Feinstein

Ruth Bader Ginsburg

Elana Kagan

Sonia Sotomayor

Madeline Albright

Elizabeth Warren

Angela Merkel

by Anonymousreply 119November 21, 2013 8:20 PM

For the record, Truman was a big history buff very interested in getting old furniture back to the White House. There was no money left so the filled the place with department store reproductions. Truman hated it. Mamie Eisenhower was given a couple of chairs or the diplomatic reception room, but she really didn't care that much about it. Jackie said Pat Nixon actually it more shit back in the White House than she did. Pat just didn't want the credit. She had too much to deal with married to Dick.....literally

by Anonymousreply 120November 21, 2013 9:12 PM

Each one of the women you list, r119, has plenty of people who don't her as doing anything all that significant.

by Anonymousreply 121November 21, 2013 9:20 PM

Not every woman is cut out to be Hillary Clinton.She made the choice that was right for her.

by Anonymousreply 122November 21, 2013 9:55 PM

If you listen to the 1964 Jackie audio tapes that Caroline released last year, the breathy voice comes and goes.

Same with Marilyn Monroe, whose similar breathy voice would come and go.

Reportedly, Jackie said to a friend after her fatal diagnosis, "Why did I spend all those years eating right and exercising if I was only going to live into my early sixties?".

by Anonymousreply 123November 21, 2013 10:05 PM

Exactly, r122! Oh, and I meant to put "see" after "don't" in my earlier post.

by Anonymousreply 124November 21, 2013 10:07 PM

R123. Bullshit. She was a chain smoker.

by Anonymousreply 125November 21, 2013 10:16 PM

I recall that quote, too, r125.

by Anonymousreply 126November 21, 2013 10:38 PM

Well then, R126 and R123, if she was shocked that eating well and exercising didn't undo the damage of a two-pack a day cigarette habit, then I suppose she really wasn't very bright. She died in the 1990s, not the 1950s; the dangers of smoking were very well known by that time.

by Anonymousreply 127November 21, 2013 10:47 PM

She had been smoking since the mid-40s. By the time the public was really told the truth about smoking, the damage had long been done. The tobacco companies were still advertising in the 60s that some cigs were healthy and/or more healthy than others.

I hate cigarettes and have never smoked one in my life, but I can understand why she would think that way.

by Anonymousreply 128November 21, 2013 10:54 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 129November 21, 2013 11:19 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 130November 21, 2013 11:21 PM

I don't know if this has been discussed in the previous comments, but I swear, Kate and Pippa Middleton remind me so much of Jackie and Lee it's almost eerie.

by Anonymousreply 131November 21, 2013 11:25 PM

Don't forget she also used a lot of jet black hair dye when such dyes were very carcinogenic.

"According to the 1994 March Medical Sciences Bulletin published by Pharmaceutical Information Associates, Ltd. "since certain chemicals in hair dyes are mutagenic in vitro and carcinogenic in experimental animals, the American Cancer Society decided to examine the incidence of cancer in women who dye their hair, using data from a large cohort study begun in 1982. Among 573,369 women monitored for more than 6 years, there were 9435 confirmed cancer deaths". "The study did find that women who used black hair dye for 20 years or more showed an increased risk of developing non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and multiple myeloma."

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 132November 21, 2013 11:25 PM

Congress banned television and radio ads on Jan. 2, 1971. Print media followed soon after.

If Mrs. Onassis did not know that smoking was bad for her, she was not paying attention. I do not know her medical history, but if she had stopped smoking 20 years before contacting cancer Mrs. Onassis might still be alive now.

by Anonymousreply 133November 21, 2013 11:28 PM

Yes, R129, and if she believed that smoking was healthy, then that is further proof of her stupidity. Many people of her generation were not fooled by advertisements promoting the health effects of smoking, including my own grandparents.

Jackie smoked to stay thin. She was vain and unconcerned about her health beyond "looking" good. I don't know why you queens insist on glamourizing her narcissism.

by Anonymousreply 134November 21, 2013 11:28 PM

And she died of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.

by Anonymousreply 135November 21, 2013 11:29 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 136November 21, 2013 11:30 PM

When JFK Jr announced her death it was worded in a way that meant, shades of Kevorkian.

by Anonymousreply 137November 21, 2013 11:34 PM

Whatever she was like as a person I think she'll most be remembered as phenomenon... a woman who captured public imagination without being a film star. Diana was in the same league. The fame transcended the person, whatever they were like. In fact whatever they were like matters less and less as the legends endure. So she's a figure of significance in the culture... more for what she says about people than anything to do with her.

by Anonymousreply 138November 21, 2013 11:35 PM

Smoking increases the risk for ALL cancers, R136. She smoked THREE PACKS a day. It's a fucking wonder she lived to be 64.

by Anonymousreply 139November 21, 2013 11:36 PM

r137, John said "She did it in her own way, and on her own terms, and we all feel lucky for that."

by Anonymousreply 140November 21, 2013 11:39 PM

Don't forget. She & JFK and some of their circle were "patients" of the Dr. Feelgood guy who gave they shots regularly. His own special formula of Vitamin B and other stuff. Jackie exercised and she called herself trying to "be healthy" but she was from a generation that really didn't "get it." Also, she was influenced by a lot of European customs and smoking was more popular and more accepted in Europe until very recently.

by Anonymousreply 141November 21, 2013 11:54 PM

Hey anti-smoking Nazis, start your own fucking thread if that's all you can talk about in this one.

She smoked. She died from a cancer unrelated to smoking. STFU and move on.

by Anonymousreply 142November 21, 2013 11:54 PM

R142 is feeling panicky about his pack-a-day habit.

It'll get you in the end, darling.

by Anonymousreply 143November 21, 2013 11:59 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 144November 22, 2013 12:31 AM

Well what's she supposed to do, go spin class?

She's eighty, she's smoked her way there, and I'm sure she just thinks 'fuck it.'

by Anonymousreply 145November 22, 2013 12:35 AM

As a gay man, I've never been a fan of the typical female icons that gay men (stereotypically) admire. I couldn't care less about Judy Garland or Barbra Streisand or Bette Midler (et al).

But, especially since she died, I've been fascinated by Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis. So much history and tragedy and drama for one person. And she was beautiful too...

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 146November 22, 2013 12:56 AM

She was beautifu.

by Anonymousreply 147November 22, 2013 1:01 AM

Size 11 shoe.

by Anonymousreply 148November 22, 2013 1:06 AM

You're still a queen, R146, even if you ride above the "stereotypes." So brave of you not to like Judy, Babs or Bette! You're the very first!

by Anonymousreply 149November 22, 2013 1:10 AM

[quote]Each one of the women you list, [R119], has plenty of people who don't her as doing anything all that significant.

You seem to have left a word or two out. That sentence does not make any sense.

by Anonymousreply 150November 22, 2013 1:12 AM

"Congress banned television and radio ads on Jan. 2, 1971. Print media followed soon after."

That's not true - cigarettes were still being advertised in magazines for decades after that. (Are magazine ads even banned now?)

(Obviously I'm well aware this question has no bearing on the fact that a smart person should have been aware at least as far back as the '60s that cigarettes were doing terrible things to their health.)

by Anonymousreply 151November 22, 2013 1:15 AM

"Jackie said Pat Nixon actually it more shit back in the White House than she did. Pat just didn't want the credit."

Citation needed! This really doesn't sound to me like something Jackie would say.

by Anonymousreply 152November 22, 2013 1:15 AM

Anyone who wouldn't see anyone on the list of women at r119 as not doing anything significant would be an idiot.

Those are important senators, secretaries of state, supreme court justices, and a prime minister. By the very nature of their job descriptions they did infinitely more than someone who did nothing her whole life but chain-smoke and power-shop.

by Anonymousreply 153November 22, 2013 1:17 AM

Did JFK really give her the clap or the syph more than once?

by Anonymousreply 154November 22, 2013 1:19 AM

One of my favorite photos of Jackie...

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 155November 22, 2013 1:25 AM

She was too good for the Kennedy family.

by Anonymousreply 156November 22, 2013 1:44 AM

r152 - I don't know if Jackie said it but the Nixon foundation blog says that. I don't doubt that it's true. Jackie set the wheels in motion by getting a curator, etc (see r112's link). Pat Nixon did extend and enhance what Jackie started. Not a Nixon fan (to say the least) but I'll give credit where it's due. It would be very much like Jackie to compliment Pat Nixon.

There's a difference between

[quote]important senators, secretaries of state, supreme court justices, and a prime minister.

and female icons. Those are all very accomplished women and you can add Eleanor Roosevelt, Barbara Jordan and any number of 20th century women to that list but none are really iconic, though Hillary may be on her way.

Personally, I am a huge Eleanor fan but most people roll their eyes when I start on about her (btw, I'm a guy).

Jackie was an icon. You may not like that she smoked or became famous by marrying an up-and-coming Senator and then a billionaire, but she truly had star quality or whatever you want to call it.

To this day, people who were adults at the time of JFK's assassination point to Jackie's composure in the aftermath (planning, funeral, interviews) as a very important part of "holding the country together". I'm quoting William Vanden Heuvel who just said this on Chris Hayes.

by Anonymousreply 157November 22, 2013 1:46 AM

I didn't realize that Jackie herself died so young. I remember seeing the pictures of her around the time she died thinking she was an elderly lady. For such a glamorous young woman, she aged very hard. Although, if anyone had survived a fraction of what she had to live through, I'm sure it would have prematurely aged them too. To lose your father and brother and mother all young in the most awful of ways -- I really feel for Caroline.

by Anonymousreply 158November 22, 2013 1:49 AM

Jackie smoked during her final pregnancy, which might explain why Patrick was born with deficient lungs and only lived a few days.

Given her three pack a day habit, Jackie's breath must have stunk 24 x 7, and she thoughtlessly smoked around her young children.

by Anonymousreply 159November 22, 2013 1:51 AM

A girl's gotta eat.

by Anonymousreply 160November 22, 2013 1:53 AM

As an aside, does anyone know if the White House tours are still suspended, especially with the Christmas season at hand?

by Anonymousreply 161November 22, 2013 1:55 AM

r159, Smoking was commonplace in 1950's and 1960's and women drank liquor while pregnant.

Doctors did not tell them not to keep living how they lived because they were pregnant.

How convenient to play Monday morning quarterback 50 years later.

by Anonymousreply 162November 22, 2013 1:59 AM

[quote]she thoughtlessly smoked around her young children

Bitch, please! Everybody smoked in the 60s. EVERYBODY. In restaurants, on planes, in elevators. Cigarette smoke was literally everywhere you went. No one gave it a second thought.

by Anonymousreply 163November 22, 2013 2:06 AM

My sister was born in 1950, I was born in 54 and my brother in 55. Doctors never told my mom to quit smoking. Smoking was touted as something relaxing.

Jackie planned the president's funeral and based it on Lincoln's funeral. She was a strong example and she helped America mourn in a dignified way.

People have criticized her voice and strange accent but back then our accents were very regional. Watching a great deal of television has homogenized American accents.

by Anonymousreply 164November 22, 2013 2:12 AM

[quote]People have criticized her voice and strange accent but back then our accents were very regional. Watching a great deal of television has homogenized American accents.

Good point. I grew up in southwestern CT and it sounded odd to me but so did Boston accents. NY accents did not because that where our TV came from (before cable).

by Anonymousreply 165November 22, 2013 2:17 AM

r164, that you for validation.

People who did not smoke even allowed smokers to smoke when they visited in those years and the house would smell bad for days after and it was just considered normal to have it be so.

No one ever sent someone outside to smoke.

Beyond bad form.

by Anonymousreply 166November 22, 2013 2:20 AM

Her half-sister, Janet Auchincloss Rutherfurd, died at age 39 of cancer.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 167November 22, 2013 2:26 AM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 168November 22, 2013 3:11 AM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 169November 22, 2013 3:17 AM

In the late 70s, I took an ashtray to class in college so I could smoke. So did about half of my classmates. And of course most of the profs. did as well.

by Anonymousreply 170November 22, 2013 3:20 AM

I was in college during the assassination, Yes Jackie held the country together during the first weeks, but so did Lyndon Johnson.

In retrospect, Kennedy should be honored for picking a VP who was ready to be president. I do not remember one person questioning LBJ's qualification to take over, no one.

by Anonymousreply 171November 22, 2013 3:25 AM

We also had various ash trays available.

Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis lead an fascinating life before, during and after the White House.

I also admired her as a mother. Looking at her children's relatives, her kids finished college, law school and did not embarrass their family or their father's memory.

This woman will always have a place in history.

by Anonymousreply 172November 22, 2013 3:26 AM

Well, Johnson could sure organize an air-tight assassination, R171!

by Anonymousreply 173November 22, 2013 3:28 AM

In all fairness to Jackie O, everybody smoked in front of their children back in the sixties. My earliest memories was of my father smoking in the lead-fueled cars back then. So not only did you inhale second-hand smoke, you also inhaled the foul odor coming from those pollution-belching land yachts.

by Anonymousreply 174November 22, 2013 3:28 AM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 175November 22, 2013 3:28 AM

So I don't get it. If everybody smoked and drank through pregnancies back then, how come we didn't end up with a generation of flipper babies?

by Anonymousreply 176November 22, 2013 3:31 AM

"In retrospect, Kennedy should be honored for picking a VP who was ready to be president. I do not remember one person questioning LBJ's qualification to take over, no one."

All the Kennedy Administration people questioned it! They all thought he would be terrible. Jackie even quoted JFK himself (I think in those tapes released a couple of years ago) as saying it would be a disaster if Johnson ever took over.

by Anonymousreply 177November 22, 2013 3:58 AM

Anyone know how many half sibblings Jackie had?

I think I read something about a brother was a rapist or something along those lines

by Anonymousreply 178November 22, 2013 4:06 AM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 179November 22, 2013 4:50 AM

MOST people did not smoke, even in the 50s and 60s.

by Anonymousreply 180November 22, 2013 5:16 AM

By the way, when you are writing 1960s or '60s, you DO NOT use an apostrophe.

1960s = correct

1960's = wrong

by Anonymousreply 181November 22, 2013 5:20 AM

Do you have the historical statistics, r180? I'd be interested to see those.

by Anonymousreply 182November 22, 2013 5:22 AM

Google it, R182.

by Anonymousreply 183November 22, 2013 5:26 AM

All I've heard about her dad is that he was a womanizer, always wanted to know more. What's the best book that has a more in-depth look at her parents? Thanks for suggestions.

by Anonymousreply 184November 22, 2013 5:39 AM

Even if most people didn't smoke, it wasn't even possible to be an anti-smoking nazi in the 50's and 60's. My church going, non-smoking parents had ashtrays in the living room, just expecting people would light up.

In regards to JBKO, I forgive a lot if your husband's brains are in your lap.

I love the fact that she and Joe Kennedy got along. She knew exactly what she was worth in that organization. Whether or not she was beautiful, compared to Ethel, she was gorgeous. (Joan was the only one to outshine her in that department.) And she was the First Lady and the others were not. Things would have been totally different if Joe had not had that stroke. I can see him working along with Jackie to preserve that legacy, making it up as they went along.

by Anonymousreply 185November 22, 2013 5:42 AM

In the new biography on Rose Kennedy, by Barbara Perry, Rose comes off as one shallow bitch.

Seemingly more interested in herself than others, her being proclaimed the mother of the century when she died in 1990 is laughable.

Rose's frequent trips to Paris and London to purchase clothes were legendary. In 1950, having been told her father had just days to live, she went to Paris anyway and never made an attempt to return home for his funeral.

When asked by Arthur Schlesinger in 1962 who in his life was most responsible for his being successful, JFK immediately responded, "Well, it certainly would not be my mother."

Still, Rose got along just fine with Jackie from the very beginning, admiring her style, manners and the fact that they both appreciated all things French.

by Anonymousreply 186November 22, 2013 10:54 AM

'Jackie even quoted JFK himself (I think in those tapes released a couple of years ago) as saying it would be a disaster if Johnson ever took over.'

Kennedy would not have won the 1960 election without LBJ on the ticket in Texas, a state Kennedy had to win and did win.

When I wrote that no one questioned Johnson's ability to take over, of course I realized that the Kennedys would have a different opinion.

by Anonymousreply 187November 22, 2013 11:26 AM

My mother smoked in the car, in front of us, she smoked all the time. But she said once that she could never smoke when she was pregnant because it made her sick. She didn't drink alcohol when pregnant, though. Not even wine. She said it was "not good for the baby." Back then nursing was considered low class, too. Nursing a baby was frowned on, and doing it in public was absolutely impossible. They felt it was the equivalent of pissing in public.

by Anonymousreply 188November 22, 2013 11:36 AM

I remember visiting people in the hospital, you were allowed to smoke in the halls and in the patient's rooms. Crazy.

by Anonymousreply 189November 22, 2013 11:47 AM

Jackie used to get injections from dr. Max feel good. JFK too. They were mainly amphetamines but we're later found to be carcinogenic. A lot of his former patients died.

by Anonymousreply 190November 22, 2013 12:15 PM

Jackie turned down many requests by the Johnson's to go to the White House. The Nixons invited her and the kids to come to preview the official portraits of her and Jack that were to be dedicated. She took them up on the offer and went in 1970. After, she made the comment regarding the large number of acquisitions that Pat Nixon acquired for the house.

by Anonymousreply 191November 22, 2013 12:16 PM

These self-righteous preachy anti-smoking trolls are so very very tiresome. Please take your lectures somewhere else and smoke it.

by Anonymousreply 192November 22, 2013 12:43 PM

History will show that Pat Nixon was one of the most underrated First Ladies in history.

by Anonymousreply 193November 22, 2013 1:43 PM

[quote]I read in several sources that Jackie smoked non-filter Pall Malls. That's pretty fucking hardcore.

I remember reading somewhere that she smoked Salems, but somebody upthread had a friend who saw her buy Marlboro Reds.

by Anonymousreply 194November 22, 2013 1:50 PM

I'm surprised that Jackie smoked for one primary reason. The bitch was so vain. And smoking prematurely ages facial skin.

I guess with all her facelifts, it didn't matter to her. (Without those facelifts, she probably would have looked like Eunice Shriver aka "Eunice Shrivel.")

by Anonymousreply 195November 22, 2013 2:33 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 196November 22, 2013 2:37 PM

R150, I already admitted to the mistake I made in my post at r124.

by Anonymousreply 197November 22, 2013 3:36 PM

Did Joan Kennedy ever get sober?

by Anonymousreply 198November 22, 2013 5:48 PM

This proves that Jackie was SMOKING hot!

by Anonymousreply 199November 22, 2013 7:00 PM

Madonna did NOT meet Jackie. John brought her home to meet her, but Jackie did not come out to meet her.

by Anonymousreply 200November 22, 2013 9:06 PM

r4 - the typical moral majority who sits behind the PTA table. Bore.

by Anonymousreply 201November 22, 2013 9:09 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 202November 22, 2013 9:09 PM

SOoooooo ... Eleanor Roosevelt was a lesbian?

by Anonymousreply 203November 22, 2013 9:10 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 204November 22, 2013 9:13 PM

r2 and r3 showcases the genius of datalounge! A beautifully eloquent and adoring description followed by a cutting and curt rubbishing of the subject matter. Absolutely BRILLIANT!

by Anonymousreply 205November 22, 2013 9:27 PM

"Joan Kennedy was found passed out drunk on a Boston street a few years ago."

Bitch, please. They found me passed out on the sidewalk, not on the street.

by Anonymousreply 206November 22, 2013 10:40 PM

"Who ever would have thought that raging alkie Joan, of all people, would be the one to outlive nearly everyone? It's down to her, Ethel and Jean Kennedy Smith now."

Though a latecomer, there's also Ted's widow, Vicki Kennedy.

by Anonymousreply 207November 22, 2013 10:42 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 208November 22, 2013 10:49 PM

I would have thought that's Jocelyn Wildenstein in profile if you hadn't identified her as Joan Kennedy.

by Anonymousreply 209November 22, 2013 10:50 PM

Vicki Kennedy is still in her 50s.

by Anonymousreply 210November 22, 2013 10:56 PM

R161: tours have been reinstated. I went on one a few weeks ago and recently received an invite to see the Christmas decorations (not going...).

by Anonymousreply 211November 23, 2013 3:20 AM

I think she always believed that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK and RFK, and that she and her children were safer in leaving the country and she married a powerful man like Onassis. She never said much about this publicly, but it started to come out more after her death.

by Anonymousreply 212November 23, 2013 4:37 AM

Jackie's children stayed in the U.S. when she married Onassis, R212.

by Anonymousreply 213November 23, 2013 4:41 AM

Joan Kennedy is the real Betty Draper. She was stunning to look at. Too bad she got involved with that scumbag alcoholic. He was her downfall.

by Anonymousreply 214November 23, 2013 4:59 AM

Yes, I'm sure he held her down and poured the alcohol down her throat r214.

by Anonymousreply 215November 23, 2013 5:07 AM

Jackie Kennedy once said, first you marry for love, the second for money and the third for companionship. Even though she didn't marry Tempelton she basically did all three.

by Anonymousreply 216November 23, 2013 5:23 AM

R179 Jackievwas close with her sister Janet. She used to personally take her for chemo. She wrote off her brother Jamie after he gave an interview and told everyone she was a chain smoker.

by Anonymousreply 217November 23, 2013 6:16 AM

Imagine what Jackie would have thought of half-brother Jamie if she had lived to see him be arrested on child porn charges.

by Anonymousreply 218November 23, 2013 6:39 AM

There may have been other reasons for writing him off. Reasons someone like Jackie would probably want to keep private.

by Anonymousreply 219November 23, 2013 6:42 AM

Ben Bradlee became dead to Jackie when he published his book on JFK in the 1970s.

She thought it was disrespectful to JFK's memory and was more about Ben than Jack.

On an island vacation with Sally Quinn after the book was published, Ben discovered that Jackie was in the next bungalow. On the few occasions when their paths would cross during the vacation, Jackie totally ignored him.

by Anonymousreply 220November 23, 2013 7:42 AM

I knew a waiter in the 70s who worked at the Terrace Restaurant in Provincetown, MA (just down the road from Hyanisport).

He said that old lady Rose Kennedy would show up with a half dozen of those Kennedy grandkids and they'd get their own special room for dining. He said Rose was an absolutely shitty tipper, and that is the God's truth he told me that strike me down dead right now can I get a Hallelujiah.

by Anonymousreply 221November 23, 2013 7:52 AM

Each September, the small variety store near the Kennedy compound in Hyannisport would send Rose a bill for everything the Kennedy grandchildren charged all summer.

She would refuse to pay until the bill was itemized, including each piece of penny candy her beloved grandchildren purchased.

by Anonymousreply 222November 23, 2013 8:13 AM

r26,interesting info.

Ever notice how John-John looks very Greek?

by Anonymousreply 223November 23, 2013 10:48 AM

Re: smoking cigarettes in the very early 1960s.

My mom was a smoker. Yet, she cut back/quit when pregnant on the advice of her doctor. She also forbade us to eat dessert, because of the dangers of too much sugar for children. So, in the early '60s that info on smoking was available, as well as the dangers of high-cholesterol and high-sugar diets. Many may have chosen to ridicule and ignore it, or it may not have been common knowledge, but the info was indeed out there.

We were not from money or great education, this info came from the family doctor. Mom also read up on this as best she could in magazines and books.

by Anonymousreply 224November 23, 2013 11:21 AM

Rose was a cheap piece of shit. Ol Teddy was a murderer himself. Too bad his sorry ass didn't drown in that car instead of poor, pregnant Mary Jo.

by Anonymousreply 225November 23, 2013 11:40 AM

R221: Provincetown is more than just down the road from Hyannisport - its at the end of the Cape and Hyannis somewhat near the beginning. Probably at least an hour drive.

by Anonymousreply 226November 23, 2013 11:42 AM

Seriously, do we have to constantly hear about this fucking lowlife family?

Rapists, killers, drunks, drug addicts...they are rivaled only be the equally vile Bush family.

Jackie was fucking ugly. Sorry, it is the truth. Why the hard-on for this scumbag family?

by Anonymousreply 227November 23, 2013 12:18 PM

Just wanted to add that Big & L'il Edie way outclassed Jackie.

by Anonymousreply 228November 23, 2013 12:20 PM

Mama Rose was such a devout Catholic that she shunned her daughter Kick (Kathleen) when Kick had the temerity to marry a non-catholic. She even refused to go to Kick's funeral and encouraged all of her kids to stay away.

The only one who went was Papa Joe. Kick showed her independence by getting engaged to another non-catholic married man after her husband was killed by a sniper just months after their marriage.

Saint Rose said that Kick's death was "God casting a finger."

by Anonymousreply 229November 23, 2013 12:24 PM

Rose was a completely crazy horror. She was a devout Catholic girl to begin with, but over time she retreated more and more into her religion, and everything was about religion to her. Everything.

Even as adults, she'd admonish the kids about the minutiae of the Catechism, and the sacraments. She was like a dried up old nun. Except in designer clothes. She was also very "rules" driven.

In that house, from the time they were little, everything was based on achievement. The kids had to do good in school, they weren't allowed to cry, or complain ever. They got no sympathy, or emotional support or understanding, no matter how dire their situation might be.

If her daughters dared confide that they were having marital problems her only response was to tell them divorce was a sin. Those were the rules. No empathy, no understanding, no solace.

She had blinders on for a lot of things. She was definitely into double standards, because she had a "boys will be boys" attitude towards Joe, Jack, Bobby and Teddy about their sexual adventures. She didn't even want to know.

The promiscuity and the drinking were ignored. All she cared about is whether they went to daily mass, said their prayers, and had good manners. I'm not talking about when they were 9 years old, I'm talking about grown ups.

Kathleen was seeing a married man, who then got divorced and they got engaged. Rose cut her off cold. Jack & Joe Jr. were kind to her, but I think the girls were too afraid to challenge their mother. She could freeze you out of the circle instantly for breaking the "rules". Her Catholicism didn't include a lot of forgiveness.

As I studied them, I felt they were terrified to fail, terrified to show any weakness. When you look at the wreckage of the lives of Kathleen, Jean, and Patricia, only Eunice made it thru because she had a good husband. And poor Rosemary, is a whole other story. We need a separate thread to talk about Rose and Joan and Ethel. Jackie deserves her own thread.

by Anonymousreply 230November 23, 2013 1:12 PM

Maybe God was "casting a finger" at Rose by taking four of her children, and by horrific means at that. They didn't just die of some natural cause. Two of them in plane crashes, the other two had their heads blown off in front of the entire world, the footage to be replayed continuously to this day.

by Anonymousreply 231November 23, 2013 2:16 PM

R229: What did Rose say about the deaths of three other of her children: JFKs, RFKs, and Joseph Patrick JRs ? was God casting a finger at them? and why?

by Anonymousreply 232November 23, 2013 2:21 PM

My brother owned a gift shop in Sun Valley. The woman he bought the store from warned him not to give the Kennedy's credit because they wouldn't pay their bills. Ethel was known around town for bringing her brood into restaurants and when the bill came looking up at the waiter saying, "Don't you know who we are." This was was her way of saying we don't plan on paying, were entitled, and you should be honored to have us in your establishment.

by Anonymousreply 233November 23, 2013 2:37 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 234November 23, 2013 2:50 PM

Did anybody watch the 2 hour documentary last night on NBC? Fascinating the similarity between John Kerry and Ruth Paine, who I did not know is still alive! THEY ARE COUSINS!

by Anonymousreply 235November 23, 2013 2:57 PM

How on earth did she "hold the country together???" OP makes it sound like she assumed the presidency and led us to victory in Vietnam.

by Anonymousreply 236November 23, 2013 3:11 PM

R 18 and 19 are correct, I think. Of course no family is perfect but I think those children were the most important thing to her. And they did do better than their cousins. No drug addictions, no illegal conduct, no extra martial affairs (that we know of). You can understand why John didn't want to go into politics. I think she married Onassis for security and she got it. She manicured Camelot for all she was worth, so that much of what we remember about that time, she organized, and designed. Someone said once that Jack and Jackie were both emotionally cold people who did love each other and tried hard to stay together, which I think Jackie did, at least. It must have been hard in the White House having to pretend she didn't know about Jack's activities. t

by Anonymousreply 237November 23, 2013 3:47 PM

[quote]Not every woman is cut out to be Hillary Clinton

Yes, the ones with a moral compass.

by Anonymousreply 238November 23, 2013 3:57 PM

Ruth Paine looked great - she must be at least 80 and looked 50ish. J.D. Tippett's widow looked 100 though. Tom Brokaw did the best special on the assassination I thought though why we should care what Steven Spielberg was doing?? Why not interview Bill Paxton if you're including random celebrities? He actually saw JFK just before he was assassinated.

The interviews with the people who knew Oswald before the assassination were interesting and painted a portrait of a loser with anger issues, a type we have, unfortunately, encountered time and again in recent decades.

Bugliosi's comment was well taken. If there was a conspiracy, why wasn't there someone to pick up Oswald and whisk him away?

And seeing footage of Oswald after his arrest dispelled any doubts I might have had about his guilt. He was so smugly pleased about all the attention he was finally getting.

by Anonymousreply 239November 23, 2013 3:58 PM

Truly an icon with a level of fame almost unfathomable today when fame is so easy to come by and is actually something people aspire to as an end in itself. She handled it beautifully, right down to planing her own funeral.

by Anonymousreply 240November 23, 2013 4:01 PM

[quote]In that house, from the time they were little, everything was based on achievement. The kids had to do good in school, they weren't allowed to cry, or complain ever. They got no sympathy, or emotional support or understanding, no matter how dire their situation might be.

Sorry, I think other than emotional support I don't see anything wrong with that. Little Jay'Den and Madyssin could use some of it.

by Anonymousreply 241November 23, 2013 4:04 PM

r241 = Mrs. Patsy Ramsey, formerly of Boulder, CO

by Anonymousreply 242November 23, 2013 4:10 PM

I think it is very telling that she chose to be buried next to JFK at Arlington. Her tombstone reads" Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy". Our Jackie ALWAYS had an eye cast toward history. Smart lady.

by Anonymousreply 243November 23, 2013 4:14 PM

R40 I knew John briefly while he was in the DA office and he was like that too. He wasn't terribly interested in his job, but he never pulled rank, never name dropped, and was unfailing polite to the noisiest people. I felt sorry for him because people would ask the most personal things about his family and he would just smile politely and go to the next subject. A nice man.

by Anonymousreply 244November 23, 2013 4:26 PM

Sorry, but her grave reads Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 245November 23, 2013 4:49 PM

"Did anybody watch the 2 hour documentary last night on NBC? Fascinating the similarity between John Kerry and Ruth Paine, who I did not know is still alive! THEY ARE COUSINS!"

Ruth married John Kerry's second cousin, so they're not a blood relation.

by Anonymousreply 246November 23, 2013 4:58 PM

[quote]How on earth did she "hold the country together???" OP makes it sound like she assumed the presidency and led us to victory in Vietnam.

THANK YOU!

The deification of these people is beyond ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 247November 23, 2013 10:01 PM

all Jackie ever had to do was tell an aide what she wanted, and it got done.

I'm not saying it was easy having to grieve for your husband in a very public funeral, she had good ideas and requests for the funeral, but she had lots of help.

by Anonymousreply 248November 23, 2013 10:27 PM

R232, when faced with adversity or tragedy, Rose would "offer it up" believing God was "testing " her, not punishing her or "casting a finger at her." She was Catholic in the extreme. Life was a test to be borne, rewards were "up in heaven." To Rose, Heaven was a real place, and if she followed the rules she'd get in.

beg to differ with whoever said Jack and Jackie were cold people. I saw him as cool, and reserved,not cold. I think she was shy and reserved, even reticent up to a point, but not cold.If you look at candid photos and video clips of them together,they both looked besotted. Especially as they got older. By the time of Dallas, they were happy, very much in love, very close. You could see it.

Yes, he was a dog; a promiscuous man. But in his generation, men separated their promiscuity from their "proper" relationships. JFK probably believed none of them meant a thing to him, and that he truly loved Jackie. And it was true for him.

by Anonymousreply 249November 23, 2013 11:40 PM

You have a rich fantasy life, R249.

by Anonymousreply 250November 23, 2013 11:46 PM

"Bugliosi's comment was well taken. If there was a conspiracy, why wasn't there someone to pick up Oswald and whisk him away?"

Because he was a PATSY. Because he was SET. UP.

by Anonymousreply 251November 23, 2013 11:50 PM

Not really. I've simply read anything I could get my hands on about the Kennedys. All of them. Joe Rose, all the kids, wives etc. You get a composite picture of Rose and she was a horrible person. If I had a grandmother like her, I would run the other way. Now she was cold. Vindictive, too. I enjoy these threads because it gives me an opportunity to talk about something I'm interested in and know something about.

by Anonymousreply 252November 23, 2013 11:59 PM

R249: so Rose thought perhaps God was casting a finger at Kathleen for not marrying in the Catholic faith. Pretty harsh. Especially compared to all the adultery Jack and Bobby committed against their wives. I don't know what Joe Jr. did wrong.

by Anonymousreply 253November 24, 2013 2:18 AM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 254November 24, 2013 2:32 AM

She was close to Jamie Auchincloss, who was always borrowing $10 from my boss so he wouldn't have to break a twenty. She told Jamie that you marry the first time for love, the second time for security and the third time for companionship.

Doris Kearns Goodwin said that if Jackie visited Rose Kennedy and said something oh, a such and such colored rug would look so beautiful with those drapes -- the next day, Rose would get a new rug the color that Jackie suggested. To Rose, she was the total authority on good taste.

She held a party for the Kennedys every year on Martha's Vineyard. My mother used to say that was her "Hi everyone, now stay the hell away from me for the rest of the year" party. She was smart to keep those kids away from the Kennedys.

by Anonymousreply 255November 24, 2013 2:44 AM

I was surprised to see that Maurice Tempelsman is still around. He's outlived Jackie by almost 20 years. I always thought he was older but they were about the same age.

by Anonymousreply 256November 24, 2013 2:47 AM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 257November 24, 2013 2:54 AM

Exactly R253. Very judgmental of others,especially when it came to her girls. So yes, in Rose's eyes, God was casting a finger at Kathleen, because Kathleen broke "the rules."

As for the boys, I think Rose was resigned that men were promiscuous creatures. But they were in charge, they were the breadwinners, and all you could do is remind them to go to Mass, and pray for their souls. Rose prayed a lot.

She was a brittle woman, and as R254 suggested, dutiful, but not loving. I don't think Old Joe was as miserly. I think she got a household allowance, and she was penurious so she could keep some of the house money for herself. I think she had a secret stash.

by Anonymousreply 258November 24, 2013 3:28 AM

R249,R252,R258:

My mother's oldest siblings were about the same age as Joe and Rose or even a little older, and like Joe grew up in East Boston. You really do live in a fantasy world, to the point of being laughable and sad.

by Anonymousreply 259November 24, 2013 4:04 AM

Well R227, NOBODY forced you to read the thread, much less post your worthless opinion.

by Anonymousreply 260November 24, 2013 5:06 AM

R260, the hard-on that R227 said that everyone else has for the Kennedy family is what R227 had writing that post.

by Anonymousreply 261November 24, 2013 12:04 PM

R259, hey asshole, I live in the real world, where you're a fucking troll. You call me "sad" but offer no alternative view. You just attack which is pretty transparent.

If you disagree with all the information available about Catholic Rose, give us a differing view. Pick out one thing that's been said about Rose that you disagree with and tell us why.

So your mother's older siblings were the same age and grew up in East Boston. And??? This makes you an authority? Tell us how? What do you know that you so far have not contributed to this thread. Tell us something we don't know. If you have information that supports an alternative view share it. The aggregate portrait I've got of Rose, is based on a lot of reading and research.

by Anonymousreply 262November 24, 2013 12:24 PM

Rose was a fucking cunt.

by Anonymousreply 263November 24, 2013 12:36 PM

Well, I read a review of a book written by someone with third hand knowledge that said the entire family, especially Rose, were all saints.

by Anonymousreply 264November 24, 2013 12:43 PM

R262: The Rose Kennedy you describe is only one aspect of her personality, especially when her children were young. Surely you know that if you have read as much as you say

I could go on, but I am laughing too hard at your angry and silly response. Enjoy your fantasy.

by Anonymousreply 265November 24, 2013 1:14 PM

Maria and Eunice's sickening deification of Rose:

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 266November 24, 2013 1:22 PM

Wasn't there a famous DL thread about Rose's massive untrimmed bush? And I don't mean the one outside her window.

by Anonymousreply 267November 24, 2013 1:38 PM

I heard a writer on C-SPAN say that every Kennedy - with the exception of Jackie - voted for Reagan over the much-despised Jimmy Carter. Jackie, he said, voted for John Anderson.

by Anonymousreply 268November 24, 2013 1:39 PM

Well put R14.

by Anonymousreply 269November 24, 2013 1:44 PM

[quote]I heard a writer on C-SPAN say that every Kennedy - with the exception of Jackie - voted for Reagan over the much-despised Jimmy Carter.

And not one of those fucking lowlifes was even 1/8 of the man Jimmy Carter is.

You don't see those Kennedy scum out swinging a hammer for the homeless.

by Anonymousreply 270November 24, 2013 2:08 PM

Jimmy Carter also tried to create universal healthcare, but Ted Kennedy killed it. Eugene McCarthy was another CIA liberal who voted for Reagan instead of Carter.

by Anonymousreply 271November 24, 2013 2:26 PM

R270 Jimmy Carter is the biggest phoney ever to walk in the White House. That stupid fuck made a big deal about hauling his own bags on Air Force one. Interestingly the bags, according to the secret service were always empty. The Kennedy's hated him, the Clinton's hated him. He was a prick, and a shitty President too. He and Rosalyn were on Paula Deens show years ago. That stupid Bitch Rosealyn was either stoned or just turned idiot. She couldn't put a sentence together. I laughed my ass off.

by Anonymousreply 272November 24, 2013 2:28 PM

[quote] Eugene McCarthy was another CIA liberal who voted for Reagan instead of Carter.

He - and George McGovern - also admitted to voting for Ford over Carter in '76.

by Anonymousreply 273November 24, 2013 3:12 PM

Ford had a lot of friends in Congress....on both sides of the aisle.

by Anonymousreply 274November 24, 2013 3:15 PM

Yes, R265, unfortunately it was that aspect that dominated her personality. I try not to get in pissing contests with skunks so I will ignore your simple ass from this point on.

by Anonymousreply 275November 24, 2013 5:59 PM

[quote]so Rose thought perhaps God was casting a finger at Kathleen for not marrying in the Catholic faith. Pretty harsh. Especially compared to all the adultery Jack and Bobby committed against their wives. I don't know what Joe Jr. did wrong.

What I've read, Rose felt God killed Kathleen's husband William Cavendish, Marquess of Hartington because he wasn't Catholic.

Kathleen then had an affair with Peter Wentworth-Fitzwilliam, 8th Earl Fitzwilliam. They planned to marry after his divorce. According to Rose this was too much and God killed them both in a plane crash.

On the back of her funeral Mass card, Rose used a prayer for the souls in purgatory.

by Anonymousreply 276November 24, 2013 6:07 PM

Rose sounds like such a delight. Did she have a theory as to what Jacqueline had done for God to punish her by having her husband's head blown out next to her?

by Anonymousreply 277November 24, 2013 6:50 PM

Maybe she blames Jacks death on his fucking around on his wife and giving her VD.

by Anonymousreply 278November 24, 2013 6:53 PM

R276: if it IS true that Rose thought killed Cavendish for not being catholic, did Rose ever wonder why God didn't kill all the other non-catholics? Why did he pick on just Cavendish?

by Anonymousreply 279November 24, 2013 7:02 PM

Something tells me that Rose wouldn't blame her sons for anything.

by Anonymousreply 280November 24, 2013 7:03 PM

The aspect that dominated Rose Kennedy's life, at least until she was well into middle age, was raising a very large family with help, but a largely absent husband. She was religious, much more so in later years. But she did not have time earlier on. Surprisingly she mostly attended public and non-Catholic private schools, except when her family insisted on Catholic schools...proving she was a strong Catholic, by that was it.

And yes Mrs. Kennedy seemed to real have it for her daughter, Kick, concerning religion to the point of near mental instability.

Richard Cardinal Cushing, who was the head of the Church in Massachuetts, was a relative liberal. That was unusual until Pope John XXIII.

by Anonymousreply 281November 24, 2013 7:32 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 282November 24, 2013 8:20 PM

Rose had to deal with some pretty shitty men in her life. Her husband Joe's affair with Gloria Swanson was pretty blatant. And her father, "Honey Fitz" Fitzpatrick was also a big womanizer. No wonder she took up the bible!

by Anonymousreply 283November 24, 2013 8:28 PM

Did it ever occur to Rose that her own trials and tribulations were God's punishment for a life lived poorly?

by Anonymousreply 284November 24, 2013 8:29 PM

R227, 247, 270. You obviously have some obsession with the Kennedys. You shouldn't let them get to you so much. Try a get some help and get a life!

by Anonymousreply 285November 24, 2013 9:34 PM

Caroline married a Jew. According to the comments above about Rose and her faith, Ed Schlossberg should be dead. God hasn't struck him down yet.

by Anonymousreply 286November 24, 2013 9:59 PM

I can't understand the fascination with this family. Jackie O, especially, is a celebrity in the mould of Princess Diana: women revered for being rich, "beautiful" and marrying right. They did nothing.

At least Eva Peron curved out a genuine niche for herself as a champion of the poor and is a genuine historical figure who affected political change in her country. Evita was more than just a president's or prince's wife. Can you imagine history text books having chapters about Jackie O and Diana?

by Anonymousreply 287November 24, 2013 10:15 PM

I think Jackie did her bit on historic preservation. Diana had a profound impact on an enduring institution, witness William and Harry, and that holding the hand of the AIDS patient didn't hurt either. Neither makes them perfect or universe altering but they weren't quite a one dimensional as you suggest.

BTW, Eva, fun as she was, seemed to have more trouble with the rule of law. You might want to cite sources other than a libretto in the future.

by Anonymousreply 288November 24, 2013 10:20 PM

R287, you must have personal issues with your appearance among other things and therefore you hate beautiful, beloved people like Jackie Kennedy and Princess Diana.

by Anonymousreply 289November 24, 2013 10:27 PM

R289, people like you made the likes of Paris Hilton celebrities because of their looks. It's not that different, really.

I'm not against celebrity if it's driven by talent: Billie Holiday, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston ... all drug addicts, but they were supremely talented. Kim Kardashian is the new Jackie Kennedy.

by Anonymousreply 290November 24, 2013 10:39 PM

Evita was "beautiful" r289. Yet she's a true historical figure by her own right independent of her husband. Diana wasn't the first to hold an AIDS patient's hand and had no historical impact. Willaim and Harry? Harry? Really?

by Anonymousreply 291November 24, 2013 10:43 PM

R285 would eat the corn out of Teddy Kennedy's shit.

by Anonymousreply 292November 24, 2013 11:02 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 293November 25, 2013 2:50 AM

Rose Kennedy was supposed to walk from the White House to St. Matthew's Cathedral for JFK's funeral, but she had a colitis attack that morning and couldn't risk soiling herself on national television . . . seriously.

by Anonymousreply 294November 26, 2013 12:28 AM

Richard Cardinal Cushing was good friends with my aunt and uncle.

Very down to earth and simple man, believed so many of the trappings involved with his position were over the top, such as kissing his ring.

by Anonymousreply 295November 26, 2013 12:30 AM

There is a no better reflection of Jacqueline Kennedy's character than the condolence letter she wrote in her own hand just a week later to the widow of the police officer Oswald also killed that day in Dallas. It speaks volumes about her compassion, her grace and her kindness. This is but a brief, beautiful portion of it..

What can I say to you - my husband's death is responsible for you losing your husband. Wasn't one life enough to take on that day? I lit a flame for Jack at Arlington Cemetery that will burn forever. I consider that it burns for your husband too and so will everyone who ever sees it.

With my inexpressible sympathy, Jacqueline Kennedy

by Anonymousreply 296November 26, 2013 12:41 AM

"Only the good die young" there couldn't be a truer phrase when it comes to JFK, Jackie and JFK Jr.

by Anonymousreply 297November 26, 2013 2:36 AM

Jackie's surviving sister seems great. Amazing that Lee was thought of as the "beautiful" one by the crazy mother and Jackie as the dowdy one.

by Anonymousreply 298November 26, 2013 5:47 AM

I never understood why Lee was considered the beautiful one.

by Anonymousreply 299November 26, 2013 5:50 AM

Because Lee was more traditionally beautiful.

If you analyze Jackie, her features were odd, especially the too wide apart eyes, the crooked teeth, the huge feet, etc.

Like Audrey Hepburn, Jackie's features came together just right and made her look unique.

by Anonymousreply 300November 26, 2013 11:53 AM

You should see the series on C-SPAN about the First Ladies. You can watch each episode on your computer. They are up to Betty Ford now. Great series, well done.

by Anonymousreply 301November 26, 2013 4:05 PM

Lee was undoubtedly prettier than Jackie....

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 302November 26, 2013 4:22 PM

Lee was far more attractive than this...

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 303November 26, 2013 7:44 PM

Lee was slimmer and finer-boned, more delicate than Jackie. Definitely the more traditionally pretty of the two. Capote, who was a huge Lee fan, hated Jackie and thought was a gorgon.

Jackie had large feet (the Kennedy women delighted in ridiculing her "clod-hoppers") and a large head (Halston, her hatmaker of choice, would finish her custom hats on his own large head--they were a perfect match). Nothing delicate about her.

Jackie, however, understood real style. Like many truly chic women (eg, Dietrich, the Dutchess of Windsor), she had mannish qualities and worked with them to find a unique style that suited her. So no ruffles, bows, or frills: she wore clean, modern lines that she looked best in.

by Anonymousreply 304November 26, 2013 7:53 PM

Check out Jackie's bouffant do in this clip. Kenneth must have worked on her all morning.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 305November 26, 2013 9:37 PM

She looks like a Bichon Frise in that video.

by Anonymousreply 306November 27, 2013 12:02 AM

Better a bichon frisé than a Bouvier Bernois...

by Anonymousreply 307November 27, 2013 1:19 AM

So despite the fact that Bobbie was doing Jackie and she undoubtedly in love with him, she still kept her own two kids separated from his while they were growing up.

by Anonymousreply 308November 27, 2013 1:24 AM

When they were leaving the funeral mass on Sunday to go to Arlington, Rose followed Jackie out and stood directly behind her as they waited at the bottom for the casket to be loaded onto the caison.

Is it protocol for the mother of the slain son to stand directly behind the widow?

by Anonymousreply 309November 27, 2013 1:32 AM

Hard to believe that Jackie smoked 3 packs of cigarettes a day. My guess is that contributed to the death of Patrick.

by Anonymousreply 310November 27, 2013 1:35 AM

My mother used to say her voice was ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 311November 27, 2013 1:59 AM

the memories people share paint an interesting picture

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 312November 27, 2013 2:46 AM

[quote]Her tombstone reads" Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy". Our Jackie ALWAYS had an eye cast toward history. Smart lady.

As r245 said, it actually read "Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis". For some reason I recall hearing that there was actual a deal made at the time of her divorce from Ari that her headstone would actually read this way; he knew the long shadow the Kennedys cast and that she'd want to be buried next to JFK, and wanted to insure he had the last laugh by insisting his name be inscribed there. Seriously.

by Anonymousreply 313November 27, 2013 2:59 AM

[quote]Mama Rose was such a devout Catholic that she shunned her daughter Kick (Kathleen) when Kick had the temerity to marry a non-catholic. She even refused to go to Kick's funeral and encouraged all of her kids to stay away.

quote]The only one who went was Papa Joe. Kick showed her independence by getting engaged to another non-catholic married man after her husband was killed by a sniper just months after their marriage.

Actually the only Kennedy present at her 1st wedding was Joe Jr, who was stationed over in England at the time. Rose included a photo of the couple, along with Joe Jr, in her autobiography.

When Kick was killed Rose retreated with her rosary and exhortations that it was all punishment for the interfaith marriage and Kick's subsequent affair with another Protestant nobleman, who was married (I think he died with her in the crash). Joe Sr ignored Rose's nonsense and flew out immediately to the crash site to retrieve her body, she was apparently his favorite and I think he secretly admired her rebelliousness.

by Anonymousreply 314November 27, 2013 3:05 AM

R223, R26 is way off. Onassis was crazy about Jackie. And plotted for years on how he could buy himself a former First Lady.

And her kids went to school in the US, because they got secret service protection. Plus, the Kennedy family still had plans for the son of the former president. They wanted to see him in the white house eventually.

by Anonymousreply 315November 27, 2013 3:17 AM

R313, Jackie and Ari were not divorced from each other. They were married to each other when he died. She was the widow Onassis.

by Anonymousreply 316November 27, 2013 3:28 AM

Was Peter Lawford Catholic? Did he convert in order to marry Pat, or had Rose just gotten over it by then?

by Anonymousreply 317November 27, 2013 3:34 AM

Her vacuity surprised even Andy (and that wasn't easy), who had hoped her vapid cluelessness was a performance piece, as was his (read his diaries). Dumb, as is Caroline (painful watching her uh, uh, duh--from a college grad?--during her senatorial 'run'. Bouvier family traumas (money, incest, divorce, cheating, etc) turned into a vaginal cash register as survival mechanism. Never paid a bill or shop or repairman on Vineyard until the 15th court date, if then.

by Anonymousreply 318November 27, 2013 3:37 AM

yes r316 but they were divorced in all but name, and had Onassis not been so ill at the end certainly would've divorced. They were living openly apart and barely speaking.

There was a pretty strict pre-nup in place from what I understand, spelling out many things, and a private post-mortem settlement with Ari's daughter Christina, whereby she paid Jackie off to get her mitts off the family fortune and forbid her from discussing things. I can't recall exactly but it may have been one of these where it was stipulated she always be referred to as "Jackie Kennedy Onassis" in public, even after death.

Many women in that situation would have reverted to the prior married name, and given the fame attached to it and that her two children had same name it would have been natural, imo. Everyone knew her as the widow Kennedy.

by Anonymousreply 319November 27, 2013 3:59 AM

[quote]The only one who went was Papa Joe.

No, the only one who went was her brother, Joe Jr.

by Anonymousreply 320November 27, 2013 4:21 AM

r312 from your link

[quote]In the tiny French town of Pont-Saint-Esprit, where a century ago her great-great-grandfather earned his keep as a cabinetmaker, the flags at City Hall flew at half-staff.

Hang on I thought she was related to black people specifically the Van Salee "mulatto" Dutch line of the 17th Century?

[quote]Anthony and Abraham van Salee were the ancestors of the Vanderbilts, the Whitneys, Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis and Humphrey Bogart.

[quote]They were among the earliest arrivals to 17th century New Amsterdam. In a number of documents dating back to this period, they are both described as "mulatto". From what scholars have been able to piece together about their background, they appear to have been the sons of a Dutch seafarer by the name of Jan Jansen who had "turned Turk" and become an admiral in the Moroccan navy. America's Van Salees With the Port of Salee as the base from which it harried European shipping, references to the fleet he commanded are salted away in the old English sea shanties that are still sung about the Salee Rovers. The mother of his two sons was probably a concubine he had while trading in this part of the world before his conversion to Islam.

[quote] Jackie Kennedy Onassis Either Professor Hershkowitz, or Tim Beard, former head of the Genealogical Department of the New York Public Library related this incident regarding van Salee genealogy. At the time the Kennedy administration began implementing its civil rights agenda, the New York Genealogical and Historical Society approached Mrs. Kennedy hoping to discuss the opportunity her African ancestry, through the Van Salees, could have in possibly assisting her husband to realize his social goals regarding race relations. Mrs. Kennedy insisted on referring to the van Salees as 'Jewish,' and the New York Genealogical Society did not push the subject further.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 321November 27, 2013 4:28 AM

In that young pic of her on a few comments back she looked totally Irish to me, and that big ol' jawline especially.

So Ireland also says she was more Irish than JFK

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 322November 27, 2013 4:30 AM

So, I'm confused how one side came from Ireland per the Irish article, in the 1800's, and the other side from France and yet PBS claims her as a Von Salee when that in fact might not be true?

by Anonymousreply 323November 27, 2013 4:32 AM

Prior to leaving on that fateful bombing mission, Joe, Jr. called home to Hyannis and spoke to a cousin who answered the phone and told Joe that neither parent was home.

Joe, Jr's last words to his cousin were, "Tell my father that I love him."

No mention of Rose.

by Anonymousreply 324November 27, 2013 9:36 AM

After JFK's funeral, Rose complained to people that she wished there were more photos of her published from that day.

What type of mother would actually care about that under the circumstances?

by Anonymousreply 325November 27, 2013 9:40 AM

R325: I sort of don't blame Rose. I think the only photo I remember is when they were leaving the church the day of the funeral, and she was 90% hidden as she was standing directly behind Jackie. and Rose was filmed sitting in the front row next to Jackie with Caroline in the middle. I saw more of Sydney Lawford than I did of Rose.

I don't know how much Rose really liked Jackie, maybe there was some jealousy on Rose's part all along or simply didn't like her like the rest of her kids, and the media was focusing on the beautiful young grieving widow.

I don't blame Rose. even though I'm not a fan of her twisted Catholic beliefs.

by Anonymousreply 326November 27, 2013 11:44 AM

If Rose wanted to be in the picture, she should've stood at Jackie's side hold Caroline's hand thru it all. But she didn't. I don't even remember seeing Jackie's mother there although I know she was.

Nothing for Rose to complain about. According to protocol, she stood in back of the widow. This wasn't Rosie's show. I'd bet that it was after the fact, when Rose realized that the world's focus was on Jackie and the kids, with nothing left for her, that she took umbrage with the excessive attention showered on Jackie.

But after all, Jackie was there. What she went thru was a singular experience. I'm sure Rose grieved in her way, as did the rest of his family. If this had been an English court in the 1600's it would have been the same.

by Anonymousreply 327November 27, 2013 11:59 AM

These days there would have been a close in periodically of the grieving mother, and probably would have zoomed in on other various members of the family no matter where they were standing.

by Anonymousreply 328November 27, 2013 12:05 PM

"they were divorced in all but name..."

A Data Lounge classic is born!

by Anonymousreply 329November 27, 2013 1:17 PM

Friend who was at Doubleday when she was there said she would never sign any inter-office memos. Didn't want her co-workers collecting them and selling them at an auction house 50 years later.

by Anonymousreply 330November 27, 2013 1:27 PM

r229 here, I should have been more clear when I said that Papa Joe was the only one who went to be with Kick. I meant to her funeral, not to her wedding.

Joe Jr. was indeed the only one who went to the wedding as he and Kick were particularly close. Joe Jr. was only 29 when he was killed. He was the best looking Kennedy brother.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 331November 27, 2013 7:20 PM

Here's shirtless Joe, Jr. being examined.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 332November 27, 2013 7:37 PM

[quote]Lee was undoubtedly prettier than Jackie....

Little Edie was undoubtedly prettier than Jackie....

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 333November 27, 2013 7:38 PM

I wouldn't go that far re: Lee being prettier than Jackie. Jackie was NOT a great beauty, but she was refined looking. Lee always looked like a concentration camp survivor

by Anonymousreply 334November 27, 2013 7:41 PM

Jackie's ugly mug was graced with eyes that were practically on the sides of her head.

Space alien or fetal alcohol syndrome?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 335November 27, 2013 7:48 PM

Interesting account of Jackie's editorial career. I had no idea that she was the acquiring editor for Gelsey Kirkland's [italic]Dancing on My Grave.[/italic]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 336November 27, 2013 8:03 PM

R133 Gay. I think Joe Jr was a big closet case. I've read some biographies, Joe jr alway came off as a deeply conflicted, tortured, closeted gay man.

by Anonymousreply 337November 28, 2013 2:55 AM

Little Edie was a legitimate beauty with lots of sex appeal when she was young. Lee and Jackie were more of the stylish, soignée type.

by Anonymousreply 338November 28, 2013 2:58 AM

I read that book, R336, or rather, I skimmed it at the pool over the summer. It's enjoyable/interesting, insofar as you get an idea of the sort of work that Jackie did as an editor. It's probably the book that gives you the best idea of what she was like as a person, which means that it's a little mundane, e.g., no accounts of smashing ouzo bottles aboard the Christina.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 339November 28, 2013 3:08 AM

Rose Kennedy's mother was still alive at the time of the JFK assassination. She didn't die until 1964.

by Anonymousreply 340November 28, 2013 3:02 PM

The family never told her that JFK had died, and they never told Rose that Jackie had died.

by Anonymousreply 341November 29, 2013 4:27 AM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 342November 29, 2013 5:12 AM

In the new biography on Rose, there's an incident with Rose visiting her mother in a nursing home late one morning and raising hell when she saw a plate of cold scrambled eggs on her mother's tray that had been sitting there since breakfast.

Rose never failed to mention in interviews that her father, Honey Fitz, was once the Mayor of Boston.

Yet, she did not attend his funeral in 1950, choosing instead to fly to Paris to clothes shop, even though her father's doctors told her he had only days to live.

by Anonymousreply 343November 29, 2013 11:18 AM

Was Joe Kennedy every told about Bobby's assassination? Joe himself died the following year.

I've heard he watched JFK's funeral on TV and showed little emotion. Don't know if that is the result of his stroke or if he normally did not emote.

by Anonymousreply 344November 29, 2013 11:57 AM

The images of Jackie in that black veil and perfect skirt walking and flanked by her brothers-in-law are so damn sad and yet glamorous.

by Anonymousreply 345November 29, 2013 12:32 PM

R345: and Jackie KNEW she was glamorous in the funeral. As much as she was grieving, she knew her (and her husband's) place in history. She knew the images would be seen and remembered forever.

by Anonymousreply 346November 29, 2013 12:43 PM

She hadn't given an interview in the 30 years prior to her death. Even those in her inner circle have not spoken since her death with any details we would all love to hear. Maybe they wanted to remain in contact with contact or be in good terms with any Kennedy member beyond Jackie. The wrath of Jackie lived beyond her death.

by Anonymousreply 347November 29, 2013 12:46 PM

"Was Joe Kennedy every told about Bobby's assassination? Joe himself died the following year.

I've heard he watched JFK's funeral on TV and showed little emotion. Don't know if that is the result of his stroke or if he normally did not emote."

Rose informed Joe of Bobby's death, something she did not do when Jack died.

Household help present for both assassinations said Jack's was handled well by Rose, but she really lost it when Bobby died, screaming "My son!, My son!" repeatedly.

by Anonymousreply 348November 29, 2013 1:32 PM

Jackie's life contracted, especially once she left publishing. I think the people who remained close to her and know things, are people who will not share them, not from "fear" but because they have no interest in talking about her. Maybe it's out of respect for Caroline, but more likely because they respect their own personal relationship with Jackie and see no need to exploit it.

by Anonymousreply 349November 29, 2013 1:35 PM

R348: not sure I understand you. I watched the replay of the funeral this year on November 25, and there was a comment made by one of the anchors that Joe was watching the funeral on TV and he showed little or no emotion while the house staff was crying. Are you saying that someone beside Rose told him about JFK's assassination? and that Rose herself told Joe about RFK's?

and about how she kept crying my son my son, I realize that by that point she had just lost her fourth child, but is it possible Bobby was a favorite over JFK.

by Anonymousreply 350November 29, 2013 5:34 PM

I thought I recalled that Teddy and a couple of the sisters went to the house to tell Joe that Bobby was gone. Maybe it was JFK. But then I also remember Joe learning about one of them from his niece, Helen Gargan.

I know that when Joe heard JFK had been killed he made some terrible loud moaning/shouting sounds, since his stroke left him permanently impaired.

If he showed no emotion during the funeral, it was probably because he couldn't. Didn't they say Joe's mind was OK, but he was paralyzed, physically impaired so he couldn't do anything.

by Anonymousreply 351November 29, 2013 5:44 PM

I read Rose's auto bio ages ago, and she does detail how and when Joe Sr was told about his sons' assassinations. I just can't recall the details.

I do remember her saying that while she understood JFK's death, being as he was President and a therefore always a target, she couldn't comprehend why God would take Bobby, who wasn't elected yet and had all those children to raise.

by Anonymousreply 352November 29, 2013 9:09 PM

[quote]she couldn't comprehend why God would take Bobby, who wasn't elected yet and had all those children to raise.

God must have cast the finger at him over past commie baiting and womanizing. At least according to Rose's deviant logic.

by Anonymousreply 353November 29, 2013 9:14 PM

R352: is there a difference between only having two children (Caroline and John Jr) who needed a father and the 11 of Bobby's? is Caroline and John less important than Bobby's kids?

Maybe God discriminates. That's what I deduct from Rose's logic.

by Anonymousreply 354November 29, 2013 11:56 PM

Of course there's no difference, it just shows Rose's twisted logic.

I think she felt closer to Bobby & Ethel perhaps because of their hyper-Catholicism (no birth control etc). I didn't get the impression from her memoirs that she was particularly close to or fond of JFK. Proud of him, but not close. And it seems from what I've read the feeling was mutual, JFK wasn't particularly close to Mom either, was closer to his father. In fact, it seems to me most of the kids were more fond of Joe than of Rose, despite his issues.

by Anonymousreply 355November 30, 2013 12:41 AM

According to the Anthony Summers book Goddess, when told of Marilyn Monroe's death Joe was able to garble "No, no." That came from Joe's assistant. They found a hand-written thank you note from Jean Kennedy-Smith in Marilyn's belongings thanking her for writing Joe after his stroke. The note stated "Understand you and Bobby are the new item. We all think you should come east for a visit." The week after Marilyn died, her assistant Pat Newcomb was a guest in Hyannisport and she went on to work for Bobby in the Justice Department.

by Anonymousreply 356November 30, 2013 1:00 AM

It was Joseph Kennedy's nurse, Rita Dallas, who informed him of JFK's assassination.

The television in his bedroom had been removed when word was first received.

The morning after the assassination, his nurse simply told him there had been a terrible incident and then handed him a copy of that morning's Boston Globe and let him read about it.

After JFK's assassination, Rose could never again bring herself to refer to Joe's nurse by her last name.

by Anonymousreply 357November 30, 2013 11:54 AM

R357: Was Rose upset with Joe's assistant after that?

and about Jackie's pink pillbox hat: I think it has to be with Jackie's assistant as she was the last person to have been given it and that she had refused to talk about it.

by Anonymousreply 358November 30, 2013 12:01 PM

I kind of wish that Joe Kennedy, the former Ambassador, had been able to attend JFK's funeral. That coverage on that might have been interesting. how prominent would he have been? Would he have walked with Jackie behind the casket to the church? or would that have still been just Bobby and Ted? or would he have been more in the background like Rose?

by Anonymousreply 359November 30, 2013 12:12 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 360November 30, 2013 2:59 PM

Joseph Kennedy was paralyzed on one side and in a wheelchair when JFK was assassinated, so there's no way the family would allow him to attend the funeral or even travel to DC.

Rose was not upset with nurse Rita Dallas informing old Joe in the manner she chose. Rita has stated that he began crying when he saw the headline announcing JFK's death.

It is true that Rose took Bobby's murder much harder than Jack's, or the deaths of any of her other children.

by Anonymousreply 361November 30, 2013 3:13 PM

R361: I meant if Joseph Kennedy had not had the stroke and was healthy enough to attend the funeral, how it would have been seeing him there in attendance.

by Anonymousreply 362November 30, 2013 3:29 PM

I agree,Rose would not be my choice for mother of the year, but I'll leaven my criticism with this observation: She was a product of her upbringing and her times.

She was born in the 1800s, raised in a strict, Catholic household, where the double standard was the norm and went unchallenged. Her father was a politician so she was raised in that environment.

She married an ambitious man, not just politically ambitious, but also materially ambitious. They both had a very high opinion of themselves. She had 9 children to raise, and a house to run for a very successful businessman, so yes, she was very strict.

By today's standards we might consider her emotionally, and probably physically abusive. Of course the kids like dad better. There was that old fashion division of labor where she was the disciplinarian. When he was around, he was not as strict, although as the boys got older, say around 11 or 12 yrs. old, he was not nearly so indulgent.

She was very Boston, and very Irish, very strict, and definitely not into coddling her kids. She was someone who did not feel comfortable expressing emotions, or showing weakness. While she may not have been the original author, she certainly subscribed to the doctrine: "Kennedys don't cry."

Personally I think there was something wrong with Rose. It was as if where the empathy, the emotional literacy should have been there was a void.

She refused to complain, nor did she indulge others. She rarely showed emotions except for dissatisfaction. She would've been the perfect stereotypical Nun. She was all about the stiff upper lip and lets make the best of this and carry on, but she did it in a way that was very abrasive. There was nothing noble in her mein.

by Anonymousreply 363November 30, 2013 4:18 PM

Rose was probably a horrible lay. Surprised Joe could get his dick in a pussy that was clenched as tightly as hers.

by Anonymousreply 364November 30, 2013 4:38 PM

Joe was like his son...would fuck anything, and DID!

by Anonymousreply 365November 30, 2013 4:47 PM

R364 reminded me of the old "Rose Kennedy's Beaver" bit from DL circa 2000.

by Anonymousreply 366November 30, 2013 5:06 PM

Rose had a tough marriage. Yes, she was emotionally vacant - but understandably so. After Joe Sr. had his stroke, any time Rose would go on a trip she would deliberately pack her black funeral dress in front of him.

by Anonymousreply 367November 30, 2013 5:12 PM

Right after Joe fell ill, Rose supposedly went swimming and played a round of golf instead of calling an ambulance.

by Anonymousreply 368November 30, 2013 5:23 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 369November 30, 2013 5:24 PM

[quote]Surprised Joe could get his dick in a pussy that was clenched as tightly as hers.

Wouldn't that be a *good* thing?

by Anonymousreply 370November 30, 2013 5:36 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 371November 30, 2013 5:44 PM

I haven't read the entire thread- I remember hearing rumors that Caroline has Aspberger's --the description above of Rose Kennedy triggered that memory.

I ran into John Jr. a couple if times right after he graduated law school and was studying for the bar- and by ran into, I mean I passed him on the sidewalk-- he was breathtaking.

by Anonymousreply 372November 30, 2013 6:17 PM

Janet Auchincloss wasn't as bad as you read. My aunt knew her pretty well. She was very old style. Even in her 70's when she would go walk her dogs in Georgetown, she would dress to the hilt (hat, white gloves, etc.).

by Anonymousreply 373November 30, 2013 6:31 PM

[quote]Janet Auchincloss wasn't as bad as you read. My aunt knew her pretty well. She was very old style.

I don't see how those three things have anything to do with one another.

by Anonymousreply 374November 30, 2013 6:35 PM

R24 made interesting point abut her likely PTSD; I hadn't thought of that. However, Baby Patrick was fullterm or just a few weeks premature, and died after 39 hours at a hospital on the Cape, I think 6 weeks before 11/22. I just read that a few weeks ago and was surprised she was still at Hyannis early in October so late in her pregnancy.

by Anonymousreply 375November 30, 2013 6:45 PM

Patrick was born 5-6 weeks early on August 7th. But she'd had at least one miscarriage before.

by Anonymousreply 376November 30, 2013 6:53 PM

To whoever posted (314?) about Jackie smoking while pregnant; I saw an old Life pic of her, pregnant and holding a daiquiri at Hyannis. I mentioned it to an older woman friend who said it was common until the mid-60's for pregnant women to be allowed to drink and smoke in moderation.

Rumor in NYC in the late 1960's was during the election and the Kennedy White House years Janet Lee Auchincloss kept telling people she was descended from the Lees of Virginia (signers of the Declaration of Independence.) The Lees sent word through society channels that unless she stopped saying that, they'd tell the truth -- that her father's name had been Levy and he had changed the name.

by Anonymousreply 377November 30, 2013 6:57 PM

234 --isn't it likely Jackie "adored" Joe Sr. because he held the purse strings and she built her career on manipulating powerful men? Didn't he select her engagement ring and give her a Braque when she threatened to divorce Jack because he'd given her an STD?

Interesting bits here about Rose being cheap and shopping in Paris. When we were kids one or two of her daughters were stopped by U.S. Customs because they clipped the designers' tags out of freshly-purchased Paris originals to claim they were American-made and avoid duties on returning to the States from a trip abroad.

by Anonymousreply 378November 30, 2013 7:10 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 379November 30, 2013 7:18 PM

Wow for a surgical Rose description at R363. The beginnings of a horror film!

by Anonymousreply 380November 30, 2013 7:29 PM

Aside from probably providing protection to caroline and JFKjr, another reason for the Onassis marriage was money. She inherited relatively little disposable income from her husband due to interlocking Kennedy family trusts, and probably wanted to escape the family's financial control. Word was Onassis also gave her modest cash allowance but paid all her charge bills. Jackie would buy 20 capri pants in the same color in Monte Carlo, keep two pairs and sell 18 at a NY consignment store, keeping the cash. She may not have actually needed the cash in the sense that we would, but it gave her some semblance of control after a lifetime of skimping while living an aristocratic lifestyle.

by Anonymousreply 381November 30, 2013 7:33 PM

"Patrick was born 5-6 weeks early on August 7th. But she'd had at least one miscarriage before."

Jackie had not only a miscarriage prior to Caroline's birth, but a stillborn girl, as well.

by Anonymousreply 382November 30, 2013 7:56 PM

"Right after Joe fell ill, Rose supposedly went swimming and played a round of golf instead of calling an ambulance."

After being informed by the staff that Ambassador Kennedy was obviously ill, Rose instructed them to put him in his bedroom for an afternoon nap while she went golfing.

Two hours elapsed before he was given medical treatment, which might explain Jack's coldness to Rose afterwards.

by Anonymousreply 383November 30, 2013 8:01 PM

"Patrick was born 5-6 weeks early on August 7th."

My twin brother died of the same lung problems as Patrick. We were born in Austin, TX in the summer.

The only thing my parents ever discussed was the extreme summer heat, and daily visits to the hospital (I was premature). It was my aunt who told me why my brother did not survive not my parents. So yes there probably was some PTSD in my parents' case and Mrs. Kennedy's

by Anonymousreply 384November 30, 2013 8:03 PM

[quote]They found a hand-written thank you note from Jean Kennedy-Smith in Marilyn's belongings thanking her for writing Joe after his stroke. The note stated "Understand you and Bobby are the new item. We all think you should come east for a visit."

I have a hard time believing this.

by Anonymousreply 385November 30, 2013 8:11 PM

A little revisionist history . . .

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 386November 30, 2013 9:00 PM

According to Rose's biographer, she was upset that LIFE Magazine chose this shot for their cover, because her eyes were half closed.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 387November 30, 2013 9:05 PM

Did Joseph and Rose Kennedy care more about their looks and perception of others than they cared about the fact that they saw four of their children die before them? Two of them by assassins bullets, its like the two of them offered these two sons up like sacrificial lambs.

Guess Rose most affected by Bobby....he was the 9th of her children. We will never know why.

by Anonymousreply 388November 30, 2013 11:43 PM

R381: many years ago I read or heard that Jackie got some paltry sum to live on from Kennedy family, Jack's portion. 250,000 year I thought the number was. hardly enough to keep the kids in the lifestyle they were accustomed, let alone Jackie.

by Anonymousreply 389November 30, 2013 11:45 PM

Ted Kennedy was the youngest of 9 children, not Robert.

Far more important, Joe, Sr. ruined his reputation (such as it was) trying to keep the U.S. out of World War II. I do agree that once we were in the war, he expected his sons to take a very active military role.

by Anonymousreply 390December 1, 2013 12:16 AM

200K is roughly 1.5 million in current figures.

How could anyone have struggled through on that pittance?

by Anonymousreply 391December 1, 2013 12:31 AM

Tell me more about this Maurice Templesman. We hear so little about him. Is he still alive? I think I heard he was a jeweler or something?

by Anonymousreply 392December 1, 2013 12:38 AM

R390: yes, Ted was the youngest, Bobby was near the bottom, maybe third from last? I confused the number number of kids Rose had with the number of kids Bobby had.

by Anonymousreply 393December 1, 2013 2:18 AM

Bobby, Jean and Teddy were the youngest, in that order.

by Anonymousreply 394December 1, 2013 2:23 AM

Yes, Bobby was third from last. He was also the smallest and most sensitive. While the other kids might have liked Joe Sr. the best (because he wasn't around often), he was not kind to Bobby because he was the runt (Joe perceived him to be weak).

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 395December 1, 2013 2:36 AM

I recall reading that Caroline was pissed that Maurice began dating after Jackie died.

by Anonymousreply 396December 1, 2013 2:42 AM

Where did you read Maurice was dating? I assume he is still married to the wife he wouldn't divorce for Jackie.

Was Caroline pissed that her mother dated after her father died?

by Anonymousreply 397December 1, 2013 3:16 AM

This article is from 2000. The woman is pretty young which could have been part of the problem.

Wonder if they are still together.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 398December 1, 2013 3:24 AM

[quote]I confused the number number of kids Rose had with the number of kids Bobby had.

Rose had 9. From oldest to youngest are-

Joseph (1915-1944)

John (1917-1963)

Rosemary (1918-2005)

Kathleen (1920-1948)

Eunice (1921-2009)

Patricia (1924-2006)

Robert (1925-1968)

Jean (1928- )

Edward "Ted" (1932-2009)

Ethel had 11. From oldest to youngest are-

Kathleen (1951- )

Joseph (1952- )

Robert (1954- )

David (1955-1984)

Mary Courtney (1956- )

Michael (1958-1997)

Mary Kerry (1959- )

Christopher (1963- )

Matthew (1965- )

Douglas (1967- )

Rory (1968- )

by Anonymousreply 399December 1, 2013 7:22 AM

Weren't Jackie's parents cash poor (the equivalent to aristocrats in England who own estates they inherited and can't afford)? Maybe she had a visceral fear of being poor...even when she was married to one of the wealthiest men in the world.

Not that it changes the fact she was a textbook courtesan.

by Anonymousreply 400December 1, 2013 9:54 AM

Jackie's mother was forced to sell the family home in RI, Hammersmith Farm.

She remained in a small cottage on the property after the sale, until Alzheimer's took its toll.

by Anonymousreply 401December 1, 2013 12:01 PM

Alice Kimball Malone was Tempelsman's companion in 2000. Whatever happened to that romance? He is 84 today, she is 45.

by Anonymousreply 402December 1, 2013 12:09 PM

R400: Jackie's stepfather, her mother's second husband, Hugh Auchincloss was an heir to the Standard Oil fortune, your not talking about him are you? Jackie's father Jack Bouvier drank his money away and lost a lot in stock market.

by Anonymousreply 403December 1, 2013 12:24 PM

Black Jack Bouvier sure had a set of balls.

Seen here holding the hand of his mistress, while wife Janet was sitting right next to them.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 404December 1, 2013 12:38 PM

Joe Kennedy Sr. and "Black Jack" Bouvier had no problem humiliating their wives. Both women were so bereft of anything resembling a companionable marriage, they assuaged their lack but seeking comfort in social status and the accoutrements of status.

Back in those days, I don't think their expectation was anything close to an equal partnership, but they did expect to be "taken care of," and respected, and treated with courtesy.

Janet was particularly status conscious. She was an avowed Republican and hated the Kennedys with a passion. When she was presented with the prospect of Jacqueline marrying into the family she was appalled.

Joe was respectful of Rose in her role as a mother, and the woman who ran their household, but not as a wife as we'd define it. Jackie's father was just an all around good time party guy, a drunk, and a wastrel.

In a lot of ways, there ware similarities with Elliot Roosevelt, Eleanor's father, who was a manic depressive and died of syphilis. Jackie naturally gravitated towards men. They were more interesting, certainly less dour, and held all the power in those times.

She had a flirtatious style, and knew how to make men feel good about themselves, sort of like a Geisha type. Jackie, as I understood it, didn't want a marital relationship with Maurice Templesman because she would not have been able to remain in the Catholic Church.

by Anonymousreply 405December 1, 2013 12:58 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 406December 1, 2013 2:42 PM

Hugh Auchincloss must have been wealthy (Standard Oil heir) and must have left a sizeable amount to his heirs.

by Anonymousreply 407December 1, 2013 3:14 PM

And I have to say, I could have used some scratch for a shawl or a nice headscarf.

by Anonymousreply 408December 2, 2013 3:32 AM

Check out the bare tit of the guy in the background.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 409December 3, 2013 4:17 AM

Always liked this shot of JFK being swarmed by the public as he swam near the Lawford's beachfront home in CA.

He's definitely got his eyes on the woman wearing the two-piece bathing suit.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 410December 3, 2013 9:03 AM

Um, the woman in the two piece risk Ethel Kennedy.

by Anonymousreply 411December 4, 2013 11:28 PM

Ethel Kennedy wasn't his sister. It's not like it's Eunice.

by Anonymousreply 412December 4, 2013 11:31 PM

When was that picture taken, R409. The fashion says White House era, but Jackie looks older in the photo. Her skin looks particularly leathery. I guess the ciggies caught up to her early.

by Anonymousreply 413December 4, 2013 11:35 PM

That is NOT ethel R411

by Anonymousreply 414December 4, 2013 11:43 PM

That two piecer in r410 is not Ethel or any other Kennedy. Just a random fan on the beach. Not to say JFK wouldn't have tried to hit it.

Daddy Joe told all of his boys to get it often and with whomever was available.

by Anonymousreply 415December 4, 2013 11:44 PM

No way Ethel would look like the woman in the two piece suit after dropping eight or nine or however many kids by that point. Ethel was probably pregnant when the picture was taken given her Catholic breeding lifestyle.

by Anonymousreply 416December 4, 2013 11:46 PM

Ethel used to call her black housekeepers racial slurs.

by Anonymousreply 417December 5, 2013 12:47 AM

I knew an old Swiss woman who had been one of several nannies working for Ethel when Bobby was Attorney General. She said both Ethel and Bobby drank like fish and neither paid the slightest bit of attention to the kids who were total hellions. All the loving family man and earth mother pics were strictly photo ops.

by Anonymousreply 418December 8, 2013 6:14 AM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 419February 16, 2014 10:33 PM

Listening to the collection of Jackie audio recordings from 1964 offers some great dish on figures of the day. Jackie held nothing back in taking digs at so many, Rose, Eunice, Pat Nixon, LBJ, Lady Bird, MLK, Ted Sorenson, Ike, Mamie, J. Edgar Hoover and even comedian Alan King.

by Anonymousreply 420February 17, 2014 5:08 AM

Jackie would have fit right in on DL! Willing to cuntily dish the dirt about absolutely everybody, EXCEPT for her Janbot-like blinders when it came to Jack, whose every action was perfection in her telling, and could do no wrong.

by Anonymousreply 421February 17, 2014 5:34 AM

I read where AO was actually pursuing Lee, but then Jackie jumped in . . . $$$

by Anonymousreply 422February 17, 2014 5:44 AM

On the Jackie audio recordings, you hear the constant clinking of ice cubes and lighting of cigarettes, so she must have been pretty loosened up.

by Anonymousreply 423February 17, 2014 6:46 AM

R422, sounds like Jackie was Scarlett to her sister's Suellen and Ari's Frank Kennedy.

by Anonymousreply 424February 17, 2014 7:07 AM

Love her

by Anonymousreply 425February 17, 2014 3:27 PM

She sucked.

Someone needs to start a thread about Betty Ford.

Come on the lady did drugs for God's sake, who freaking cool is that? And she was on a sitcom and not for some hokey message but just for fun.

She is awesome.

by Anonymousreply 426February 17, 2014 6:17 PM

R422, it is more accurate to say that Lee was the one who was actively pursuing Onassis, but he had bigger fish to fry. And I know I've read somewhere that Onassis was actually at the White House during JFK's funeral.

I visited Hammersmith Farm back in the '90s when it was open to the public. Very nice home, not ostentatious or showy. You got to see John Jr.'s room, which was in the attic.

I've always read that while Jackie was not extremely close to the other Kennedy women, she still maintained ties with them and attended family gatherings, so it is not as if they never had contact. Onassis even visited Rose before his wedding to Jackie to get her blessing, so to speak.

by Anonymousreply 427February 17, 2014 10:54 PM

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 428February 17, 2014 10:55 PM

Jackie looks like a guy in R303 pic

by Anonymousreply 429February 17, 2014 11:19 PM

R427 -You're right: LEE was the one who pursued AO. BUT, once JK found herself & her 'security' ($$$) in a 'dire situation,' she DID jump in; and AO, flattered by JK's attentions, took the bait. (AO, too, with his 'Napoleon' complex, wanted a highly coveted, expensive & internationally recognized trophy.) So, that being said, JK was Lee's 'Scarlett' after all.

by Anonymousreply 430February 18, 2014 1:52 AM

Jackie and Lee didn't have a dime from Hugh Auchincloss. Gore Vidal (who had also been a stepchild of his before the Bouvier girls were) said he treated the stepchildren like Cinderella, made them sleep in maids' room and wouldn't give them any money.

by Anonymousreply 431February 18, 2014 2:01 AM

Lee was sleeping with Onassis. When his attention turned to Jackie, it caused a rift between the sisters. They both got over it.

Btw, most people seem repulsed by Onassis, but both Lee and Elizabeth Taylor said he was intelligent, likable, charming and lots of fun to be around. Taylor was one of the few people to publicly defend Jackie when she married Onassis.

Of course, the thought of how much dough ray Onassis had went a long way in making him "charming."

by Anonymousreply 432February 18, 2014 2:15 AM

dough ray mee

by Anonymousreply 433February 18, 2014 2:18 AM

"Btw, most people seem repulsed by Onassis, but both Lee and Elizabeth Taylor said he was intelligent, likable, charming and lots of fun to be around."

I don't think people have any trouble believing that; it's the idea of thirtysomething Jackie letting him fuck her that repulses most people.

by Anonymousreply 434February 18, 2014 2:20 AM

She was a real top-drawer cunt.

by Anonymousreply 435February 18, 2014 2:20 AM

Onassis was bisexual. As a youth, he once seduced a male prison guard to help get his father released from a Greek jail.

by Anonymousreply 436February 18, 2014 3:01 AM

R363 the void you speak of was probably the place where emotion used to live before it was beaten out by her family and the strict Catholic upbringing they gave her.

I'm not defending Rose in the slightest, but as you so astutely stated, she DID grow up in a world where the double standard was the norm and went unchallenged.

She was accepted to Wellesley and was forbidden to go by her father. Instead, she wound up marrying Joe, and by all accounts, her family was not exactly thrilled with the match. I feel like she married him as an act of defiance, and to finally get away. When she realized she had gotten more than she bargained for, she tried to go back to her family and her father told her no dice. You made your bed, now lie in it.

So she did the only thing a good Catholic girl could do; have a million babies and pretend not to care that everyone knows your husband is a serial philanderer.

To me, her emotional vacancy seems like the after effect of a bright girl who was not allowed to capitalize on her talents or pursue her passions. When you put away the part of yourself that has hopes and dreams, you usually put away the rest of your feelings as well.

by Anonymousreply 437February 18, 2014 3:12 AM

I'm not sure Grand Central Terminal was worth saving. It wasn't a real landmark like the old Penn Station.

by Anonymousreply 438February 18, 2014 3:15 AM

[quote]To me, her emotional vacancy seems like the after effect of a bright girl who was not allowed to capitalize on her talents or pursue her passions.

When things got rough at home, she would leave Boston and go to Paris. I think that Paris must have represented something in her personality that hadn't been beaten down or sullied by her husband.

by Anonymousreply 439February 18, 2014 3:27 AM

I bet she was a real bitch but I always felt sorry for her. I read a story about how Rose went to Paris and had dinner with Charles de Gaulle and thought they would be discussing world affairs. De Gaulle knew she had a mentally handicapped daughter and all he'd talk to her about was his beloved daughter Who had Down Syndrome and died and how much he missed her.

by Anonymousreply 440February 18, 2014 4:34 AM

I think Rose was into talking about the retarded, though, r440 - it was one of her big causes. I don't know who related that story, but sure, I guess it's possible that if Rose was really anticipating talking about some NATO treaty or whatever, it might have been a disappointment. But it's not like de Gaulle just picked some topic out of the blue to bore her with; I've seen TV interviews with her where she goes on about issues about the retarded, so it would have made sense for one of his briefing people to suggest it to him as a topic he and Rose could engage on.

by Anonymousreply 441February 18, 2014 4:46 AM

She pushed to save Grand Central Terminal, and historic Georgetown homes when she was first lady.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 442February 18, 2014 6:21 AM

DEATH POOL ALERT: 85-year-old Ethel Kennedy attended the opening day of daughter Kerry's DUI trial in a wheelchair.

by Anonymousreply 443February 24, 2014 9:12 PM

The well-received book I'm reading, A Cruel and Shocking Act, by Philip Shenon, mentions the contemporaneous backlash Jackie received among some of Washington's power brokers for her conduct after the assassination. Specifically, the author points to (i) Jackie's insistence on an open-air procession down Connecticut Avenue that put some world leader's health at risk, let alone exposing them all to a would-be assassin, (ii) her seemingly presumptuous decision to install an eternal flame ("[t]here's only one eternal light in front of a grave, and that's at the Paris tomb of the unknown soldier ... [s]ome people think that Kennedy doesn't really rate this yet"), (iii) her efforts to rename the Cape Canaveral & the new national cultural center being built on the Potomac River ("Lincoln didn't get a memorial for about 75 years and Teddy Roosevelt and FDR still don't have a memorial"), and (iv) her repeated, well-publicized visits to husband's grave were seen by some insiders as an attempt to rewrite the story of her marriage.

I also recall reading that former presidents Truman & Eisenhower believed the Lincoln-inspired state funeral was too excessive.

by Anonymousreply 444July 30, 2014 5:18 PM

[quote]Also, nobody ever talks about this but she MUST have had post-traumatic stress disorder for years after. Having someone's brains blown into your lap in the middle of an ordinary afternoon would traumatise a seasoned marine, and she was already fragile from a late-stage miscarriage a month or two before.

This is an excellent point. Has any of her biographers pursued this angle?

And also: given that JFK was on at least 8 types of medications daily before and during the White House, I find all the stories about his wild sexual exploits rather hard to believe. When your back hurts so much that you can barely walk, chasing and fucking pussies should be the LAST thing on one's mind.

So I think all the JFK sexual stories were mostly fabricated and put out by his camp to divert attention from the FACT that he was such a physically sick man.

by Anonymousreply 445July 30, 2014 5:33 PM

Onassis used to like to fuck women up the ass. He was a Greek, you know. Maria, Jackie and Lee: "Push those hemorrhoids to one side, Ari."

by Anonymousreply 446July 30, 2014 5:42 PM

[quote] When your back hurts so much that you can barely walk, chasing and fucking pussies should be the LAST thing on one's mind.

He wasn't known for being aggressive in bed. And he didn't have to do much chasing.

[quote] So I think all the JFK sexual stories were mostly fabricated and put out by his camp to divert attention from the FACT that he was such a physically sick man.

No one diverted anyone's attention since only insiders were aware of these so-called stories.

by Anonymousreply 447July 30, 2014 5:56 PM

[quote]When your back hurts so much that you can barely walk, chasing and fucking pussies should be the LAST thing on one's mind.

Oh, to be young like you. Unless you're too old to remember how a sex drive works.

I'm on 4 medications and suffer chronic back and joint pain, but at 45 I have no problem getting it up and I think about sex as much as a 20 year old. As R447 points out, being hypersexual does not equate to being a gymnast in bed. I'm quite sure JFK loved sitting/lying back and being serviced by a submissive doing all the work, like any other Alpha male does. Sex isn't always hip thrusts and gyrations, even for the top/penetrator.

by Anonymousreply 448July 30, 2014 6:12 PM

R428, she cut off contact with her first cousin John Davis, son of Maude Bouvier Davis (Jackie's aunt) because he always talked about her to the press and wrote books about her and the Kennedys.

by Anonymousreply 449October 27, 2014 10:55 PM

She had to marry Onassis, so she could have money to leave her kids.

by Anonymousreply 450October 27, 2014 11:05 PM

I liked her. I thought she was bodacious!

by Anonymousreply 451August 2, 2019 11:33 PM

I liked her. I thought she was bodacious!

by Anonymousreply 452August 2, 2019 11:33 PM

According to this week's obituary, this Secret Service agent who was in Dallas didn't believe Jackie was trying to retrieve her husband's skull when she climbed ontp the back of the car. I wish this article would've included what he thought Jackie was in fact doing.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 453August 31, 2019 11:03 PM

Wow OCD Jackie Stans find and bump ancient thread. Stans MUST FAP regularly.

Jackie was freaking out in the car. Wouldn't you?

by Anonymousreply 454August 31, 2019 11:21 PM

For Jackie & CSPAN fans, CSPAN3 will be airing a segment - at noon Eastern time - devoted to Jackie’s 1962 televised White House tour.

by Anonymousreply 455May 26, 2020 11:12 PM

I think she was great. I guess its hard for people to understand what it was like for a woman born in Jackie s generation. The most socially acceptable way to have a nice life was to make a good marriage. That was the way it was, period. She downplayed her smarts but was very bright. If you read about Kennedy as president, Jackie was very very much a power behind the scenes and there were countess times she used her charms and brains to make Jack look good, particularly with other world leaders. To be married to JFK, who would and did have a quickie with somebody with Jackie in the next room constantly, as constant as breathing practically.................all thru her marriage could not be easy and was probably humiliating. Onassis was a better fit for her, older, father figure, etc. Her settlement as his widow of 26 million was peanuts as his net worth at death in 1975 was 500 million. She gave up a trust as Kennedy s widow of 10 million at the time, so it was more money but not a fortune. Fortuantely the devoted Mr Templesman turned her fortunes around with some very timely investments in later years. And as others have said her greatest accomplishment was as a mother........she knew what was important in life.

by Anonymousreply 456May 27, 2020 3:57 AM

Wow, the interview at R103 is mesmerizing. Do watch it if you haven't. So feminine. Lovely answers.

I'm struck by how much she sounds like Marilyn Monroe. "Thank you, Mr. Vanocur" sounds a lot like "Thank you, Mr Fabian"

by Anonymousreply 457July 22, 2020 4:35 AM

She haf no class an no stile.

by Anonymousreply 458July 22, 2020 6:16 AM
Loading
Need more help? Click Here.

Yes indeed, we too use "cookies." Take a look at our privacy/terms or if you just want to see the damn site without all this bureaucratic nonsense, click ACCEPT. Otherwise, you'll just have to find some other site for your pointless bitchery needs.

×

Become a contributor - post when you want with no ads!