I know there are tons of rumors about her. What do you think? Was she a hermaphrodite? Was Edward gay? Did she learn Chinese sex tricks in the East? I mean, she was no oil painting and he could've had just about any (unmarried) girl out there.
She really had to have been a most beguiling and bewitching woman, and so UNlike all the others that the Prince of Wales had met before her. He seemed to become infatuated on the spot, and she could do no wrong in his eyes. Lord knows what thoughts and secrets were whirring in that tiny woman, who brought down an almost-King. He supposedly(at least that's what was published) never regretted his decision to marry her, but I wonder, in his heart of hearts, and on his darkest days, did he? Cookie, as WS derogitorially called the late Queen Mother, never forgave Wallis for what she did, thereby thrusting her own husband, the soon to be George VI, into the spotlight. Books about the Duchess still fascinate me, and I wonder if SHE ever had any regrets?
I read somewhere that both boys had a ruthlessly abusive nanny growing up and for many years their mother ignored the bruises and marks until one day she was let go.
Edward apparently had a very small penis and premature ejaculation issue and Wallis, being well skilled in the bedroom, was able to satisfy him completely, hence his infatuation with her. She was also very dominant in the bedroom and he enjoyed that, having been abused as a child.
On the other side of the story King George was unable to maintain an erection, in addition to other numerous nervous issues. Both his children were conceived via IVF.
Cookie, as Wallis called her, was no Saint either. A terrible snob and sometimes wicked woman, she was apparently instrumental in Edwards abdication from the throne, to her own benefit.
They both did the world a favor by taking that Nazi loving overbred dork off the throne.
I don't get why people admire that old whore. But I'm nor surprised Madonna made a movie about her.
If you want the dirt on them then check-out the book Full Service by Scotty Bowers.
She was sassy, mannish, tough and chic. She made Edward feel as manly as he ever would. They were both world-class narcissists.
"You can't abdicate and eat it", she told him, and so it proved. An unappealing, displaced couple: apparently comfortable in their discomfort, wholly unenviable, still somehow fascinating.
[quote]that tiny woman, who brought down an almost-King.
Who was an almost-King? Edward VIII?
IVF wasn't invented until the 1970's, but nice try r2.
brought down an almost-King.
Almost? He was king the very instant his father died.
[quote]Cookie, as WS derogitorially called the late Queen Mother, never forgave Wallis for what she did
The entire royal family never forgave the future Duke of Windsor for what HE did.
Cookie, as Wallis called her, was no Saint either. A terrible snob and sometimes wicked woman, she was apparently instrumental in Edwards abdication from the throne, to her own benefit.
Not at all. Not at all. NOBODY wanted an abdication, most of all Bertie and Elizabeth, who were quite happy as they were. They both knew, as did everyone really, that he wasn't cut out for it. Not to mention the constitutional crisis and unbearable pressure of quite literally saving the British monarchy.
R7, it used to be called a turkey baster
At first she tried to woo Edward Windsor, but when he wasn't interested, she settled for his stammering, highly strung younger brother, George. When Edward became King, she plotted to force his abdication so George could ascend and she could become 'Queen.' His "crime" was to fall in love with a divorcee -- and one with such poor bloodlines! Once Edward was successfully toppled, Elizabeth insisted he and his wife Wallace be driven into exile and blanked by royal circles. (The couple had plenty of real flaws, but Elizabeth was blind to them: it was the American-ness and the ambition and the divorce that she loathed.)
This was her way with any relatives who displeased her by showing vulnerability. When her cousins became mentally ill, they were locked in asylums and never seen again. Elizabeth's entry in Who's Who falsely announced they were dead. This icy ruthlessness startled people who met her. In 1939, French Prime Minister Edouard Daladier said she was "an excessively ambitious young woman who would be ready to sacrifice every other country in the world so that she might remain Queen."
The most striking aspect of Shawcross' biography is that once she had contrived to marry, Elizabeth really didn't do anything else for the rest of her life except spend, spend, spend -- our money. He has to pad out whole decades. She didn't even raise her own children: she would see them for an hour a day, and get them to chant: "We are not supposed to be normal. We are not supposed to be normal."
But to be fair, she did do one more thing. In her spare time, she supported far right politics. She was a passionate defender of appeasing Adolf Hitler, lobbying behind the scenes to garner support for Neville Chamberlain. The reasons are plain: even fifty years later, she bragged to Woodrow Wyatt that she had "reservations about Jews." Once the war began, she was rebranded as a symbol of Britain's heroic resistance to the Nazis -- but what did she actually do? Unlike everyone else, she didn't live on rations, but was fattened by pheasants and venison on the royal estates. She didn't stay in bombed-out London anything like as much as the myth suggests: she spent much of the war in Windsor, Norfolk and Scotland, far from the Nazi planes, surrounded by battalions of servants.
Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon kept up her support for far-right politics throughout her life. She did everything she could to bolster the torturing of white minority tyrannies in Rhodesia and South Africa, because -- as the journalist Paul Callan, who knew her, put it -- "She is not fond of black folk." Our beaming Queen Mum was Alf Garnett in a tiara.
She believed Britain's class system reflected a natural hierarchy -- and the people below her creamy upper tier were inferior. She told Woodrow Wyatt, "I hate that classlessness. It is so unreal." At first, she was appalled by the idea of her eldest daughter marrying Phillip Mountbatten, because his "bloodlines" weren't good enough: his family had fallen from power, so they weren't "really" royal. When Diana Spencer started hugging AIDS victims and lepers, Elizabeth was disgusted. When Diana started rebelling, Elizabeth announced to friends the girl was "schizophrenic," but she was bemused because Diana came from "a good family." The rest of us, by implication, come from "bad families," where you would expect schizophrenia and other lower-class disorders.
[quote]Once Edward was successfully toppled, Elizabeth insisted he and his wife Wallace
I think there is a whole lot of bollocks at R11.
r8 You're counting the UNcrowned nanoseconds he was King? By all means, do so, but, let's be real, shall we?
I agree, R13. The portrait R11 paints is incredibly inaccurate and one sided. Sure, Elizabeth the Queen Mother could be a behind the scenes operator,manipulative and conniving, as much as anyone can, no moreso, except she functioned on a larger stage.
She & Bertie were very content with their lives. No,she couldn't stand the brittle, lacquered, American divorcee who seemed to have no respect for David, reprimanded him, criticized him, mocked him,albeit "playfully", and dominated him in private at their many social gatherings. Everyone gossiped about it.
Wallis was very worldly, socially ambitious, and avaricious.She loved the high life. She had a haughty, sarcastic, catty personality. She really did believe her David would maneuver her onto the throne as queen, not just at first, but eventually.
She was always very cutting and insulting to "Cookie." She also enjoyed mocking Bertie, often within earshot of both of them. As for the Nazi connection, David, with Wallis' encouragement, was conspiring with the Nazis leading right up until the Brits declared war.
She was enthusiastic about this and very active in it, not a passive companion. Why? Because the Nazis promised to restore Edward to the throne with her at his side as his Queen. Both fools believed them.
She was a paid German spy. Von Ribbentrop sent her money on a continuing basis.
IVF and artificial insemination are two different things, r2.
R2 is quite stupid and assume also quite high.
R15's assessment is backed up by a book I read about the Duke and Duchess. I simply can't remember who authored it.
She was having an affair with a Nazi spy at the same time as her relationship with the King.
Her friend Julie told her she might as well sleep with von Ribbentropp. No one would care.
That Julie is a real cunt.
Wallis was fascinating. Diana Vreeland, who knew her well, thought that Wallis was a great friend to have; loyal, kind, wise and funny. I always felt a little sorry for her. I don't think she wanted to be queen as the rumour has but then she got saddled for the rest of her life with Edward who was a racist, homophobic dolt.
Her letters to her aunt and to Ernest Simpson show a woman who was enjoying being the King's "friend" with all the perks of jewels, status etc but who didn't expect it to last. She saw herself as just one more favourite and knew that one day it would be over.
She was obviously a great flirt who knew how to make a man feel special. Sexual tricks? who knows? She was a naturally dominant woman, Edward a natural submissive. One story has a butler at the royal household quitting when he saw Edward painting Wallis's toenails.
Nicky Haslam in his autobiography (Which has a great story about Wallis in the 60s) asked Princess Margaret about the Duchess and Margaret said "It wasn't her we hated it was HIM!"
Wallis once told a confidant that "living out a grand love affair in the public eye is one of the toughest jobs in the world," and that life was very tedious being married to a perpetual Peter Pan.
The BBC did a great documentary about them which was thankfully linked by someone here & you could see it on youtube.
Basically, what happened was that Edward was way too close to the NAZIs. The "divorced woman" shtick was something used as a ruse to get him out as he was fucking dangerous to the country. Really dangerous. Churchill & others wanted him out, it was the perfect way to get rid of him.
Wallis & Edward were still communicating with the NAZIs after they left power, they have those letters proving it, and like someone upthread said, they were promising to put him back on the throne.
There's also a shitload of archives that the current crop of Royals (Elizabeth) don't want opened or looked at by historians due to this connection to Hitler that Edward had. Who knows what they'll find? I have a sneaking suspicion that we'll find that Edward was giving tons of money TO Hitler and the Queen would be mortified if that got let out. One of the reasons is because the current Queen was actually a mechanic in WW2, yes, she was, look it up. She's a pretty amazing, energetic woman.
But I still think the archives need to be opened up.
[bold]The Nazi King[/bold]
“The British government were anxious to get rid of the Duke of Windsor, first and foremost because of his fondness for Nazi ideology,” the 227-page report concludes. “The Duchess’s political views are deemed so obnoxious to the British government that they refused to permit Edward to marry her and maintain the throne.”
There was no law compelling Edward VIII to abdicate in order to marry the divorced Simpson, as she was not Roman Catholic. He did not need Parliament's permission to marry her. The abdication crisis was a rouse to get him off of the throne because of his Nazi sympathies.
I've read many,many books and articles about them over the years. I'm a history buff,& went thru a phase where I was fascinated by the whole thing. Wallis seemed such an unlovable creature, and they lived such an odd, sad little life, I was very curious.
Oh, and I don't dispute the allegation that she had an affair with Von Ribbontrop. She may have. He and other top level Nazis were certainly courting the Duke & Duchess.
Has it been mentioned that the reason he were sent to the Bahamas as Governor General, is because Winston's people, British Intelligence, discovered a plot to kidnap them and take them to Germany, as hostages, towards a negotiated armistice with the UK.
It would have made things very difficult for the Brits, and undermined the war efforts and the monarchy. David had been very popular with the public, before Wallis, and there was a very strong Nazi support group in England. So they really didn't want the Duke anywhere near the war or the Germans.
r28 not just sympathies. He was a full blown NAZI, who considered himself German. His mother was German, and he had a lot of German blood on both sides.
She had an enormous jewelry collection, had a horse face, was a Nazi, and Madonna directed a flop movie about her.
[quote]In Portugal Edward committed what may have been the worst act of his shabby career. In July 1940 the German ambassador in Lisbon passed a message to Berlin saying: “The Duke believes with certainty that continued heavy bombing would make England ready for peace.”
[quote]The former king was urging the bombardment of his own people.
r28 this is for you. I don't know about the kidnapping story. Link please? I have been giving you links that the British press have where real historians, not history buffs like you and I, have shown that he was a complete NAZI sympathizer. In this quote it shows you that he was urging Hitler to bomb his own people in the UK.
He was tossed out due to being a NAZI, period.
R2, you are so full of shit I can't believe it!
IVF for King George's children? It didn't exist back then.
For all those who believe the Von Ribbentrop,pro nazi stories it is important to remember that a lot of the british upper classes were pro nazi in the 30s. Was Wallis pro nazi? Probably but so was the future queen mother.
The big fear of the aristocracy was communism and so fascism seemed preferable.
Wallis actually looked her best in the late 1960s and early 1970s.
Park Avenue Plastic Surgeon, do you think she had any work done? If so, what?
Three face lifts. The last one was against medical advice and there was a problem that resulted in a lack of oxygen.shortly afterwards she began the decline into dementia.
She did look good from the 60s onwards,better than any other time.
She used Erno Laszlo cosmetics as well as Estée Lauder and ruthlessly dieted all her life.
[quote]I have a sneaking suspicion that we'll find that Edward was giving tons of money TO Hitler and the Queen would be mortified if that got let out.
He had no money to give and Hitler had plenty from the Germans he plundered looted.
The Queen and Princess Margaret were both conceived by artificial insemination, which was first carried out in 1884.
That Bitch was soooo ugly if she was laying on the beach, the tide wouldn't come in.
When the whole Charles and Camilla thing came to light it seemed to me it was Edward and Wallis all over again. Both Edward and Charles just happened to hit it off with this woman that was in his own general age and looks category instead of the standard gorgeous young piece of ass, and everybody's mystified.
[quote]She was obviously a great flirt who knew how to make a man feel special. Sexual tricks? who knows?
I suspect the bar was set rather low with regards to giving Edward a dazzling sexual performance.
Those tricks might have been as exotic as leaving a light on, pretending she actually enjoyed it, or maybe even moving her hips a bit.
You can try Wiki for starters, but just Google the Nazi Plot to kidnap the Duke. it's also mentioned in several books I read. Operation Willi allegedly was engineered by Von Ribbentrop. In some accounts they use the "spirited away to Berlin" to soften the fact it was a kidnapping plot and very real.
R33 is right. Edward actually gave Hitler military information that resulted in British soldier deaths. He corresponded with Hitler the whole time he was banished to Spain. Then Churchill had it with him, didn't want the British public to know how far Edward had gone to help the Nazi's - so he sent them to the Bahamas. Where they proceeded to launder money for Hitler. He was a traitor!
Could not be more deplorable. He doesn't deserve to be buried on British soil. I actually wonder if he really is?
r45 How would the Duke have been privy to some information that might've impacted the war?
"If you want the dirt on them then check-out the book Full Service by Scotty Bowers."
Uh, no. Bowers is a liar. Threesomes with "Eddy and Wally?" You'd have to be a total idiot to believe Bower's completely unsubstantiated tales.
Wallace Simpson was a horrid, greedy, self-absorbed woman. Somebody said of her "if she was hungry, she might take a bite out of you." She was fashionable; that was the best thing you could say about her.
Edward VIII was a right mess. It seems that he may have been, in all seriousness, mentally retarded. Alan Lascelles, Edward's private secretary for eight yeards, believed that "for some hereditary or physiological reason his normal mental development stopped dead when he reached adolescence".
Their relationship can be summed up like this: she treated him like shit and he adored it. Total co-dependence. He was used to being treated deferentially and respectfully, and here's this woman who treats him with contempt and has no respect for him at all. He loved it! He couldn't do without it, which is why he abdicated the throne for her. Good thing, too; he was a Nazi sympathizer. There are appalling pictures of both of them meeting Hitler. They're smiling and beaming at him; he's wearing a prominent swastika armband. Gag!
They deserved each other. Both of them were awful human beings.
Thank God Eddie wasn't king during the Blitz.
R48, there was definitely something "wrong" with Edward. His father was an abusive man, the abusive nanny, was only the beginning. Look at his siblings.
Bertie developed the debilitating stammer, another brother was an addict, another a manic depressive who committed suicide. I think they had a brother James, who was locked away because they thought him mentally ill. I think he was epileptic. The didn't want anyone to see him, or know about him. In some official entries he's even listed as dead.
Bertie was not real bright, but very diligent, and plodding. While Bertie was the victim of a lot of stress, and abuse, David got most of it. I think his personality was emotionally stunted and perpetually adolescent.
His partying,his marriage, his abdication, and his embrace of Hitler & the Nazis, were all expressions of rebellion and hatred for his father. He really hated his father. He had no sense of duty, really, just a sense of entitlement. Wallis brought out the babyish, immature side, so yes, a perfect match.
R46, not the deepest secrets, perhaps, but in the early days of the war, Germany took what they could get from all kinds of often erroneous sources. England was shockingly open in the pre-war days. A lot of people never believed war with Germany would ever happen.
David's information had credibility. He was a popular ex-military man who served WW I. Nazi support extended to the military, especially before war was declared. David's social circle included some high class gossip from the upper echelons of the ruling class.
He could share shortcomings of England's military preparedness. He certainly knew whether they had the kind of naval strength and air force to respond to an attack. He also was very tuned in to the internal debate between those who were anti- war and sympathized with Germany, and those who did not.
These two NAZI's were a mess of epic proportions. From r44 's link
[quote]This investigation, based on a combination of surveillance, informants and hearsay, alleged that the Windsors, especially the duchess, had been passing secrets to the Nazis to wreck the Allies' war effort, primarily through Ribbentrop, who was said to be Mrs. Simpson's lover. Ribbentrop was the ambassador to the Court of St. James's at the time of the abdication prior to becoming Foreign Minister. Ribbentrop himself tried to curry Edward's favor by using the Duke of Coburg, Edward's cousin and Nazi party member as an emissary, the latter brazenly attending the funeral of George V in his SA uniform.
Not that this matters to anyone here, but I'm really grateful these two shits got thrown out of GB. I'm Jewish. And I am grateful that Churchill went to war with Hitler.
R51, it was worse than that. The reason the British and French didn't do anything when Hitler occupied the Rhineland was because Edward VIII went psycho in opposing any action. So he had a real role on Hitler's rise. It was after that that Chamberlain, Baldwin, Menzies, and Churchill decided to do something to get him off the throne.
I saw some of her clothes in an art museum a couple of years ago, and in the the 1930s she weighed less than Honey BooBoo. I swear the hips on the dresses were like 12 inches across.
I saw clothing worn by the Duke and Duchess of Windsor at the Met's Costume Exhibit a little over 10 years ago and they were both tiny, tiny people. The suits worn by the Duke could have fit a 12 year-old boy, he was so short and slight. And I had the same reaction to Wallis's dresses that r53 did. From the size of her clothes, she was borderline emaciated.
And yes, they were both awful shits who never did anything for anyone in their entire lives. I don't know why the two were such big celebrities and revered by people, because both Edward and Wallis were terrible people with no moral compass whatsoever, for all the reasons already listed in this thread.
They were very mercenary, so I doubt they ever gave a dime to any Nazis or Nazi causes. All their lives, once married, they never did anything without getting paid for showing up. Inviting them to a party was expensive. They were always on the look out for a chance to cash in on their celebrity. I find it curious that they lived in France after WWII. You'd think the French would've hated him.
She couldn't get rid of that idiot, and she tried.
Anyway I got all that from "C" by Anthony Cave Brown, a biography of Sir Stewart Menzies, which corrects one's knowledge of the World War II era by considering various types of secret intelligence that were unknown to most historians in the first fifty years after the war.
Were their pro-Nazi sympathies known at the time, or did that information not come out until much later?
Somewhat connected. A new book called "The Prince, the Princess and the Perfect Murder" by Andrew Rose. I bought it but haven't read it yet.
There is so much bullshit on this thread. Most of these ridiculous allegations have been thrown out before and they are all nonsense.
The truth is Wallis Simpson never intended to marry Edward and was ready to move on when it became clear their association was damaging the throne. He threatened to commit suicide and follow her wherever she went, no matter what happened, so she finally consented to him negotiating with the Government to find a solution.
Stanley Baldwin and the Cabinet had no intention of forcing Edward to abdicate. They hoped he would accept the need to wait until after his Coronation to contemplate marriage, at which point it was hoped Wallis would have moved on or at least time had passed since her second divorce. The Nazis were not on the radar at that point because it was believed they would never invade.
Edward abdicated because he didn't want to be King and do his duty. It's just that simple and Wallis was the convenient tool he used to get out of it.
Simple truth (as I see it) is:
Wallis didn't want to be queen. She was a realist and understood how the world worked. She knew no twice divorced American could be queen.
Women like her grew up to please men and run houses, be hostesses. That was all they thought of doing.
Edward used her as his excuse to get out of being King. Which was lucky for Great Britain. Churchill knew he would be a lousy king and said that one day a grateful people would erect statues of Wallis Simpson in gratitude.
They were friendly with the Nazis because a lot of high class society was at that time. Mitfords anyone? I think a lot of the spying and plotting stories are unproved and there is even now a vested interest from the British establishment in portraying them both as despicable people. How else to justify excluding them from family and public life in England? The queen Mother hated them. Particularly him because he spurned her advances when she wanted to marry him. (Which in many ways they probably were but I think that Wallis in particular deserves a bit of slack. She has been unfairly vilified by history)
There's ample evidence from the Duke's closest friends and aides at the time, that she was insistent on being recognized, and getting a royal title. The Duke led her to believe it was possible. (Or misled her.)
During negotiations,the Prime Minister suggested that they could get a bill from Parliament, allowing her to marry the king, but never be royalty, and she was pissed.
She pressed him to hold out for rank and title. Her demands were such that one in Parliament would introduce the bill. Baldwin, Churchill, Beaverbrook, all of them eventually turned on him. Churchill knew enough about HRH's politics to want him out anyway.
Not love, but I think she was infatuated with him. She loved the notoriety and glamor, but by the time of the abdication,she'd have gladly run away from him, and actually tried, but was thwarted by his begging. He looked very small without his crown.
Churchill only turned on Edward VIII in the end... he tried to find a solution.
Morganatic marriage was kicked around for awhile but discarded (where they would have been married but she would not have held any of his titles, nor would any children born from the marriage.)
I agree the Queen Mother was not entirely aligned privately with her external brand, but that hatchet job was written by Johann Hari, famous fired plagiarist, editor of his enemies Wikipedia entries, and supporter of the Iraq War. It was written before his suspension from one of Britain's left leaning broadsheets.
The Queen Mother turned down proposals of marriage from the Duke of York three times before she decided to agree. But I gather she did run the show behind the scenes.
There is a lot of misinformation on this thread.
Edward and Wallis became the darlings of cafe society, but were great "moochers" expecting others to pick up any tab. Great friends of Elsa Maxwell.
Edward VIII had mumps, which stunted his growth and caused sterility. That's why he was so tiny.
r60 wrong. Historians say that Churchill in the early 30's knew about the rise of Hitler and thought shit was going to go down. And it was Churchill and other ministers getting rid of Edward due to his NAZI sympathies.
Read the links in this thread, please.
Churchill knew in 1930 about Hitler:
"Churchill was following the news coming from Germany in detail and remained unconvinced. On October 19, 1930, he met with Prince Bismarck at the German Embassy to discuss current events. When the topic of Hitler and the Nazi Party arose, Churchill acknowledged Hitler’s declarations that he had no intention of waging a war of aggression, however, as the Prince noted, Churchill “was convinced that Hitler or his followers would seize the first available opportunity to resort to armed force.”6
The Prince documented the conversation and sent it to the Foreign Ministry in Berlin. The Senior Counselor at the German Embassy in London attached a note stating, “Although one should always bear in mind Winston Churchill’s very temperamental personality when considering his remarks, they nevertheless deserve particular attention.” 7
I am reading a historical romance fiction book now which is very well researched in other areas. It postulates that Wallis did not intend to spend the rest of her life with him, but meant to stay the mistress for a couple of years and reap the financial benefits. The book theorizes that David like to be dominated, which Wallis didn't mind doing, but that neither of them was very interested in sex and that David's mistresses were not mistresses at all. He would develop adolescent "pashs" for older women who mothered him or dominated him, but was never really interested in sex. He and his brothers were abused by a nanny and neither parent was very sympathetic about it. But he was pro Nazi, and GB was better off without him as King.
My favorite item from the Wallis Simpson Wikipedia article. Girl knew how to party!
According to Hui-lan Koo, the second wife of Chinese diplomat and politician Wellington Koo, the only Mandarin Chinese phrase that Wallis learned during her sojourn in Asia was "Boy, pass me the champagne".
OP, what's this "almost King"? He was a king the moment his father died, constitutionally and traditionally.
[quote][R70] it is indeed an acronym. It stands for National Socialist Party. Dear.
Good lord, where to begin?
For starters, an acronym for "National Socialist Party" would be "NSP" in English.
However, "Nazi" is a word of German origin, and the full name of the party in German is "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei", which is abbreviated as the acronym "NSDAP" in German.
Finally, the word "Nazi" is a corruption of the first two syllables of the party's full name in German, similar to how "Sozi" was used to describe the Social Democratic Party of Germany.
It is an abbreviation and a slang word that has crossed into general usage. It is not an acronym in any language.
Etymologist Nazis never die. Happy Veteran's Day guys.
Wallis was said to have a "very high pitched, metallic American voice" that sounded like the ice cubes inside a shaken cocktail shaker.
This clip is from the 60s and you can hear Wallis speaking at the :58 mark.
Thanks, R81. Has a nasal quality to it. I almost want to call that the precursor to today's "vocal fry."
How predictable that Madonna is, huh? Anyone past the age of 40 can see the dynamics of the relationship with Wallace. Madonna instead sees: Unattractive woman changes history. This fascinates Madge. How did Wallace do it? What were her secrets? That's why Madonna is in awe. She doesn't see an odd, submissive co-dependent stunted man. Wallace understood the king's deficits and catered to them. She found his needs and filled them. There's no secrets there about seducing men, just a broken,weak man. Since Madonna herself is so emotionally stunted explains her obsession with a fellow American who has achieved what she never will. Like the Kaballah religion and its mysticism, Madonna believes there are answers and secrets to gaining power across the board and she sets out to discover them. She never takes into account the political struggles and time frame that allow for the unraveling of events. Emotionally, Madonna is the equivalent of the uneducated, obese fag hag Wiccan.
Also, one must remember that Wallis' pedigree is of the upper class. She didn't achieve the incredulous and fight her way up from the middle class. She was born into privilege.
These societal facts are lost on Madonna and former bestie Gwyneth because they thought they could attain status mobility without a proper education. Gwyn tried to nail the Prince of Spain before Chris Martin and apres Brad Pitt. Leaving out their ostracized Italian and Jewish blood, the way to class upward mobility is through education at the right institutions. Did they ever factor in why parents are so focused on gaining entry into choice colleges? Why parents scrimp, save and sacrifice to be able to groom their children onto a higher station in life? Uneducated celebrities spend their lives on the hamster wheel and wonder why they're denied access to the truly elite. If you were uneducated like Diana, you would require a platinum pedigree. There really isn't a way around it. It's only a secret to the ignorant, uneducated celebrity.
While Wallace was no beauty, she didn't have much competition against her homely contemporaries. Remember, the King didn't run in circles of exceptional beauties as pedigree paved your way. His bar was set pretty low concerning physical attractiveness.
Good post, R84. Wallis did quite well with what she had: an attractive patrician bearing helped along by excellent coiffeuriers and couturiers.
"At about the same time, Robert Bruce Lockhart, a journalist with close ties to the secret service, recorded in his person diary that Edward had remarked to Prince Louis Ferdinand, the kaiser's grandson, that 'it was no business of ours to interfere in German internal affairs either re: Jews or re: anything else,' and that Edward had added that 'dictators were very popular these days and we might want one in England before long.'...As a result, the prince's state papers were screened 'in the Foreign Office,' recorded Lady Donaldson, 'before the red boxes went off to Edward.' "
"The kind made it evident that he preferred Ribbentrop to the present German ambassador in London...The king encouraged Hitler to replace Hoesch with Ribbentrop, with the words that he 'wished to have a representative National Socialist from Germany as an ambassador,' one who, 'through hi personal rank in society belongs naturally to the gentry'.... And, the duke of Coburg went on to claim, Edward VIII declared that he was 'resolved to concentrate the business of government on himself.'"
After the Rhineland invasion, Edward VIII told the German ambassador, "I sent for the Prime Minister and gave him a piece of my mind. I told the old so-and-so that I would abdicate if he made war. There was a frightful scene. But you needn't worry. There won't be war."
Edward does not sound to me like he wanted to get out of being king.
I think David had scarlet fever or measles when he was young, which stunted his physical and mental growth. Adult photos of him next to his brothers Kent, York and Gloucester show David very underdeveloped, with Kent and Gloucester being particularly robust and manly. I'm not surprised to hear he had a small penis or was impotent.
As for being a Nazi, it's pretty well documented where his sympathies lay. Years after the war he is said to love listening to German military music and when drink he would roll his R's, slip into a German accent and remind people that the blood in his veins was German. He had a point there, other than a small slice of Danish from his half-Danish mother he was basically German.
I know many DLers have a distaste for astrology, but it is interesting to note that both Wallis and Edward were geminis.
Geminis are notoriously charming. Followed by Cancers who lack in this ability tenfold.
Correct R85. We must all remember being surprised at our own crushes of those who didn't possess the standard good looks. I try to recall where my heart and values were controlling my responses. We've all been guilty of this at times.
What I wonder is this: had Wallis Simpson become Queen, what would it have been like?
While she had great taste most of the time, the two of them lived a pretty louche life after effectively being exiled.
If she'd become Queen would she have dialled it down or would it simply have been business as usual but at Buckingham Palace and Windsor instead of the French Riviera and New York?
Because as Queen I think Wallis, if she didn't follow a different style path, would have grated on the great British public fairly quickly.
Not trying to turn this into a Madonna thread but i've always felt deep embarrassment for Madonna. I recall so vividly and painfully so how my mind and emotions operated at that stage when one has fourteen years. I cringe for her and her fans that don't know any better.
My favorite time would have to be when she indulged her whim as an equestrian. Recall her riding on city streets and she was about as awkward as Christopher Reeve atop a show jumper. She could have been paralyzed for life. For you need to become one with the animal. A skill Madonna does not possess. She tried to invent herself as the country marquess but it didn't work with her educational omittance.
Here's hoping we've sailed under the radar of her stans.
In this image, you can see her horse becoming nervous but she is oblivious to his posturing. A seasoned rider would instinctively offer their arm as a protection and lean into the horse's neck directing his attention away. It's a wonder she didn't get herself killed. Not a shock that she was thrown. She failed at this pretentious incarnation. Embarrassing!
[quote]He had no money to give and Hitler had plenty from the Germans he plundered looted.
Didn't he have income from the Duchy of Cornwall?
A Daily Telegraph article, called "Was Wallis all Woman?" indicates that she may have been a sort of hermaphrodite. Another in same Telegraph, called "Behind Closed Doors" indicates that Wallis' attorney at the end became her nemesis, reinterpreting her will, stealing valuables, saving letters to be burned to use for future publication instead.
Incredible pic r92 - I feel so bad for that horse. Beautiful horse too, but of course it's always about her.
Does anyone here know if Madonna can be linked to Camilla Parker Bowles? I believe Angelina Jolie and Hillary Clinton can claim a relation but not Celine, Madonna and Beyonce. I was just wondering if a long ago connection could be used by Madonna as justification for attempting to override her plebian beginnings.
TBH, Jolie's father's family the Voights were actually all Germans, and very briefly lived in Czechoslavakia, but she's all German on her father's side, hence the lantern jaw of Angelina.
The mother is French-Canadian, but her mother's mother moved to LA to try and stage mother Angie's mother into a career in Hollywood. Didn't work but Angie's mother hooked a big fish briefly (Voight).
Did Wallis continue her friendship with Lady Furness after essentially stealing Edward from her? Who were Wallis' close friends after she became the Duchess?
I don't think Wallace maintained a relationship with Lady Furness. Theirs was a superficial relationship. As I recall from what I read, Wallis had no truly close friends aside from her Aunt Bessie from Baltimore, and some superficial relationships she cultivated in the King's social set. As the years passed, she would rebuild her place in the world's social set, the post WW II aimless, pointless European Jet Set.
I recall the Duke and Duchess were very unkind to his close friends, and misused those who tried to help and were close to the Duke, during the abdication crisis.
Neither one ever fully appreciated the huge public scandal their relationship and his abdication caused. She was hated by the general public in England, and the media attention, for those times, was relentless.
"What I wonder is this: had Wallis Simpson become Queen, what would it have been like?"
I can't see her maintaining a façade of duty, honor, and a stiff upper lip through the blitz of London. No, she probably would have gone someplace safe and taken the King with her, it's not like he could have functioned without her.
I've heard it said that George VI's decision to stay in London and rough it out with the commoners was what saved the monarchy. If the King and morganatic Queen had run for the hills, and partied while London burned, would Britain still have a Queen?
r102 - nope. They would be seen as horrible and Brits would have gotten rid of the monarchy decades ago. With Edward being a nazi sympathizer & them running for he hills that would have been all she wrote. The end.
Ever the clothes horse, Wallis was known for popularizing the "little black dress." She also had a thing for pugs.
She was known for her exquisite fashion sense. In fact, she coined the phrase "you can never be too rich or too thin."
I see nobody has been talking about the hermaphrodite rumours.
Cillian Murphy could never play her in a biopic. She's way prettier than Wallis.
R105, I've read some articles (probably still online) about the possibility that she was born without a cervix. She and a relative (her aunt? her mother?) knew she could never have children. One commentary claimed that her relentless dieting was because it was known about the condition that her masculine features would be more pronounced if she gained weight.
Wallis' features softened as she aged. Diana Vreeland supposedly called a photo shoot because she wanted close ups of Wallis so she could see if Wallis had had plastic surgery or not! Her trademark witchy mole under her lip disappeared at some point ... either by good foundation or skin removal.
Edward VIII wanted to be king. Had England lost the war, he believed Hitler would restore him to the throne.
Churchill, while one of the first voices against Hitler and the Nazis, was reluctant to allow ER VIII to abdicate until there was no other alternative.
The tone here seems to be of admiration for Simpson, mixed with some very bourgeois snobbery.
It is not unlike the way some of you go on about Joan Crawford. It is creepy.
Wallis knew she was no raving beauty. She once said:
"I'm not a beautiful woman. I'm nothing to look at, so the only thing I can do is dress better than anyone else."
"The tone here seems to be of admiration for Simpson"
She sucked her way to wealth, fame, and a place in history! Of course she has admirers here.
How convenient for you, r110, to miss the posts who call out Simpson and her husband as Nazis. Or is that what you mean by "bourgeois snobbery?" Cotton to the Nazis, do you?
Makes you much more than a creep and less than a human.
[quote]Edward VIII wanted to be king.
No. That's the cause of the whole situation. He did not want to be King. By clinging to Wallis he ensured he wouldn't be crowned. She left him while he was King and he threatened suicide unless she returned. He was advised that he could keep her as a mistress and remain unmarried but he insisted on making her his wife, solely because he knew it was his ticket out.
[quote]Churchill, while one of the first voices against Hitler and the Nazis, was reluctant to allow ER VIII to abdicate until there was no other alternative.
Churchill had no say in the matter. He was not prime minister until 1940.
R105, there is something interesting on hermaphroditism if you do a web search using "Maggie Von Ostrand The Duchess of Windson A Guy Thing." It describes her physical condition and her affair with gay Woolworth heir Jimmy Donahue. DL won't let me post a URL.
I was responding to earlier posts that said Churchill wanted him out, which was not the case.
A popular joke at the time:
Edward Rex who?
Edward wrecks the Coronation."
I read here on DL on another British royalty thread that George V was disgusted with the idea of David becoming king, thinking he was not mentally or otherwise suited for the job. Before this thread, I didn't know he was such a tormentor and careless parent.
The European nations should be grateful that the Crown went to George VI and eventually to his very level-headed (though stuck in the times) daughter who eventually got it.
Sorry about the over-repetitive last sentence.
R111, wasn't that Isabella Blow de McQueen?
Here's r116 's link
Maggie Van Ostrand "The Duchess of Windsor A Guy Thing"
r105 I posted the link for you, unfortunately Maggie doesn't use paragraphs so it's unreadable
I think she's tremendous!
Churchill may have wanted him out but lied about it later. Certainly Churchill was never pro-Nazi.
So if she had a penis was she fucking Edward or was she just sucking him off and swallowing his royal loads?
I have always thought Edward and Wallis have been in a way scapegoats for a generation of people who think that they were the exception as Nazi sympathises,rather than part of that time.
Before World War 2 there were really only two shows on earth. Fascism and Communism.To the British upper classes and even middle classes,Communism was completely terrifying.Hitler by contrast looked like a saviour.
Britain didn't want to go to war and was terrified of it after the Great War.
It has become almost common for us to think of Edward as bad and George as good,but this has taken a long time and a great deal of effort.
Edward was incredibly popular.People adored him.The abdication crisis nearly caused a revolution and the government feared what Edward planned to do.
The royal household were terrified of his modern ways and some even tried to plant stories about his instability and plotted to help get him out.
Edward was by no means the only royal personage courting Hitler.Many in England were trying to desperately keep out of any war that might ensue,as America did till 1941 try to keep out of the whole thing altogether.
It is very easy in retrospect to say everyone hated the Nazis and Edward was evil etc,but Edward was a product of his time and history is always written by the winners.
They weren't just sympathizers. They were spies. Edward against his own country! Whole different ball of wax. He was a traitor.
I have the impression that he did want to be king but only on his terms. It seemed like he expected them to give in if he just held his ground. After the abdication, he kept thinking that he would regain the throne. Idiot.
He was a typical spoiled, shallow, selfish, privileged man who only cared about himself. The same goes for her.
R10, likewise we will never understand the admiring tone for the likes of Kissinger and Netanyahu.
The Duke of Windsor wasn't smart enough to be a spy. Wallis liked clothes and prestige--she had grown up as a poor relative in a wealthy family, which should tell you a whole lot about her.
Their lives are interesting; I imagine talking to them was pretty horrid, since they had no culture. The babble about Hitler is best understood in the very dimwitted preferences of the English aristocracy of that era--there were a lot of titled lords and ladies who looked favorably upon AH....that all ended for most when Czechoslovakia was invaded and things got very real indeed.
From Gore Vidal's 1995 memoir Palimpsest:
I liked Wallis. She had a flapper's wisecracking charm. As for the duke--well, Hughdie (Auchincloss) had made me permanently susceptible to the charms of the born bore, to which time had added to this peculiar lust of mine an equal passion for the deeply stupid. David, as Wallis called him, always had something of such riveting stupidity to say on any subject that I clung to his words like the most avid courtier of the ancien régime. . . .
I got the duchess in a reminiscent mood. "I never wanted to get married. This was all his idea. They act as if I were some sort of idiot, not knowing the rules about who can be queen and who can't. But he insisted." She took a long drink of vodka. . . .
The only thing of a "historic" nature that I learned from the duke was apropos Mona (Bismarck)'s current reading about the czar and his family. "I was there," said the duke, somewhat portentously. "In Russia?" I asked. After all the prince regent had convinced himself that he had fought side by side with Wellington at Waterloo. "No. No." The duke was irritable. "I was there at breakfast." "Ah," we all said, and Eddie (Bismarck), I think reprised the key word breakfast.
"Yes. With the king . . . and the queen. Just the three of us. Suddenly an equerry comes in. I meant this was breakfast, for heaven's sake!" We looked, I hope, suitably horrified at this breach. "Not done, you know, ever. The king was furious, but the man went straight up to him with this note, which the king read and gave my mother, and she read it and gave it back and said, 'No.' The king gave it to the equerry and said, 'No.' Later that day I asked my mother what that was all about and she said the government was willing to send a ship to rescue the czar and his family but she did not think it would be good for us to have them in England and so the Bolsheviks shot the lot of them."
One suspects that the present princess of Wales, in a recently published private telephone conversation, may have got the mot juste when she referred to the family into which she has so unhappily married as "this fucking family."
Oh for fuck's sake, people behave as if the British monarchy was some kind of centuries-old clockwork mechanism that was devoid of scandal and blood lust. Kings and queens (kings mostly) engaged in all kinds of debauchery, chicanery and plain old murder. Wars were fought over succession, heads rolled, arms and legs were torn off, innards exposed, families were exterminated, religious killings were rampant, gallows bowed under the weight of thousands of hanged bodies, children were raped, lands stolen, foreign people were forcibly subjugated, resources apropriated, married women were told they were to become the lovers of a prince or king....
And they had the nerve to clutch their pearls because someone wanted to get married to a woman he loved. Oh the horror! How dare he! He must have lacked balls, she must have been a toxic dominatrix, they must have been bizarre sickos. Why couldn't they just fuck behind the scenes while he married someone else, like every other royal family member? Be liars and cheaters for the good of the monarchy?
Marry someone you love? You fucking degenerate perv! !
[quote]I have the impression that he did want to be king
He wanted, craved, all of the perks but loathed the responsibilities. He hated to do what he derided as the job of "kinging" and before that, as Prince of Wales, of "princing".
He had good looks and an abundance of charm, hence his popularity with the masses, but nothing else.
The UK dodged a bullet when he abdicated and for that Wallis is to be thanked.
Edward would have been a disaster as king, with his Hitler sympathies, and also because he was an extremely stupid man. It was for the best that he abdicated.
This is a bit o/t here but does anyone else find it HILARIOUS that many of the Mitford progeny today have African genetics? I do given that some of those "beautiful Mitford sisters" were Hitler supporters, and at least one, Jessica, was a communist supporter and apparently a horrible shitty mother.
I liked Jessica. It was Diana who was married to Sir Walter Moseley, and then another sister who was so enthralled by Hitler and he with her, that she actually believed he'd marry her.
She joined the Nazi Party, lived in Berlin off and on, and eventually killed herself at a young age. Wish I could remember her name. Most of the Mitfords, with the exception of Diana and they younger sister, abandoned their sympathies for Hitler and the Nazis once war was declared, but the war drove a permanent wedge between the Mitford parents. The son was also leaning Nazi.
Has anyone read a book called, I believe Dance With the Devil? It's about the later years of the Duke & Duchess when Jimmy Donoghue was a fixture in their lives. It almost made me feel sorry for the Duke. Wallis was a terrible person.
Sir Oswald Moseley and Unity Mitford are the people you were referring to, r137
Thank you, R138. Yes, Oswald and Unity.
I have no idea why Edward VIII was considered the "golden Prince Charming." He was considered handsome, but he sure as hell wasn't. He had a pinched-looking face; he looked old even when he was young. He was rarely photographed smiling. He was a delicate little shrimp. Not attractive at all. I guess just being a Prince is supposed to make one good-looking. I heard the same thing about Prince Charles, that he was "handsome." Not so!
Edward did look like a delicate little shrimp. His brothers, even the chain-smoking stammering one, were more robust and handsome. I suspect Edward had a tiny penis, he looked very stunted.
I'm sure there must be a planet in our solar system where someone who looks like Prince Charles might be considered handsome, but Earth isn't it.
Prince Harry is the one whose looks are currently being overpraised. Yes, he is tall and fit and the hair is nice, but his face is ordinary and he does seem to be a douche.
William was overpraised until he lost his hair. The looks of celebrities are always just overpraised, not just royalty. Brad Pitt still gets called "the sexiest man alive", even though he's now fifty and barely above average.
Prince William went downhill... and fast. It wasn't just losing his hair, something happened to his face as well. It's like Kate just sucked the life and beauty out of him. Fucking parasite.
William did start losing his looks at a young age. Well that's what happens when your German family is inbred as hell. Kate's not related to him, thank goodness. He looks like his father now, but thankfully actually adores his wife and fucks her only, she's obviously the love of his life. Sweet.
For William it's those damned unfortunate teeth, like his aunt, Princess Anne. Ugh. For Harry, his eyes are too close together, and he has a nose like one of those ski jumps.
R146 but you'd still rather have sex with Harry right? I know I'd choose him. Sucking royal dick must be the epitome of social climbing for the untitled.
What was so bewitching about her? She was actually quite homely. I've always said that Englishmen have strange tastes.
I tried watching W.E. (the Madonna film) and it was unbelievably boring/melodramatic. I found the Wallis and Edward portrayed in The King's Speech to be far more interesting, and they were only featured for a total of 5 minutes.
Well, honestly, I think Harry'd be more imaginative, but I haven't seen what he has to offer. We've seen what William has and so I'll go with William.
What he lacks in technique he'll make up for in enthusiasm. Although, I have a distinct impression William probably giggles a lot during sex.
Sorry, R146 responding to "who would you rather" @R147. As I think about it more, I wonder if WIlliam's giggling might be a deal breaker.