The psychology of obsessed fans - Can we talk about this without mentioning names?
The new prancing pony thread got me thinking about this odd phenomenon.
I realize a lot of these people are lonely females, though no doubt many are male also.
That said however, what makes a person completely obsessed with a celeb, moreover a B or C-list celeb, which is what DL seems to attract? Is it because some people are just so physically attracted to a certain actor? Is it due to delusions? Or perhaps they figure they have to assign themselves to someone's team, so why not pick THIS ONE?
I'm curious about what would make a person, virtually speaking, be completely obsessed with a stranger to the point of deconstructing their poses in magazines and interview mannerisms on Internet discussion forums, and apparently doing so 24/7.
Is this done mostly by people who don't work or have partners/families that keep them busy?
I would love to hear some theories on this and what drives the people behind it.
Nothing about Aspergers seems to relate to this trait R1.
The fan sees in the life of the dead celebrity a life they think they would have enjoyed. They wish to emulate the qualities they think that celebrity possessed. It is a form of escapism. I had a personal trainer who studied the ways famous actors of the 1940's dressed and walked and talked and tried to alter his speaking patterns and his way of walking to be more like, in his case, Cary Grant or Humphrey Bogart. It was remarkable to observe because he was very good at the effort. He claimed I would not believe the positive effect it had on his business for the good. Of course, he did not tell the clients.
They're obviously filling some kind of void in their own life.
The most obsessive fans never come from functional family backgrounds. An abusive parent, a lost loved one, something there being repressed and sublimated into the celebrity.
We ALL do this to some degree or another when we watch a movie. Teh reason a fictional character moves us is largely in part because there is some part of us that wants to identify with that person or experience something close to him/her.
They need some relief from anticipating the annual infantilizing they know is coming up.
Coming from a fan who at least knows what I'm doing, they're imaginary family, sometimes partners, to replace something missing in life. I have great taste in performers, but it's not a necessarily healthy activity, psychologically.
The main difference between having a fantasy relationship with a celebrity and thinking that you have a close personal relationship with God is that the fans are much less likely to go around fucking over other people because of it. In that sense it's a lot healthier, and I would say that on the whole DL attracts a healthier crowd than the average freeper and Bible banger-dominated internet forums. I prefer to spend time with those obsessed with Raul and his etc. than those obsessed with sparkly ponified Jesus with his handsful of slimy little embryos.
R8 has a point.
For me, I became a fan but then I became curious. I read book after book about Hollywood and film and I read whatever gossip I could find. Not gossip from The Enquirer. I liked to read books by actors, directors, producers. I was fishing. I had questions about the actor and I was always looking for answers. It's hard to get answers when you aren't an insider, so I'm still fishing.
I have no contact with the actor and never wanted any contact. For me it's a puzzle I'm trying to solve.
Which B and C-List celebrities are we talking about? I mean I keep seeing that Thor thread popping up, so I know that Hiddleston is one of them. Ackles is another.
We've been broken.
Once, you were defined by what you did for a living. That's a luxury few people enjoy because they have had to start over so many times to survive.
Then, you were defined by what you consumed. Your house, your car, your purse, and your shoes advertised who you are.
Now, we have anonymous boards. Nobody cares what you do for a living and nobody wants to know about your stuff. You're left with your personal tastes as identifiers. Your likes and dislikes are the medium. Your arcane knowledge is the currency you trade in.
I've just read this and it's complete bullshit. Oh, well.
YouTube has some interesting obsessed fan vlogs.
R6, I hear you.
I love my life, have a great partner, etc, but I've always--since childhood--been obsessed with one celebrity or another. It would change every couple of years or so.
I'm obsessive about an actress/singer nowadays. I'm not delusional--we've met several times, but obviously we're not friends. I love looking at photos of her, listening to her songs/tv appearances/movies, discussing her personal life with other die hard fans. To me she's the most beautiful and talented performer around, and it just brings me joy to look at/listen to her. And sometimes I do fantasize (sexually or just that we're friends). Again, I love my real life, but I just keep this little fantasy life in my head.
But, I know it's just fantasy.
The Cumberbitches are another one.
R3, who said anything about DEAD celebrities, specifically? I think the question is about obsessed fans of live celebrities.
Celebrities with the most obnoxious fans:
L. Ron Hubbard
Mary Baker Eddy
The Grateful Dead
I was an obsessive fan when I was young, and yes, my horrible family life was part of it. I'd fantasize about the celebrity, not about meeting him but being him; about being someone famous, powerful, and interesting rather than myself. The obsessiveness stopped when I got a life.
So when you see the cracked fans niggling over ridiculous details, it's partly because they want to understand every little part of the celebrity, who they really are and what kind of life they live. And then they want to prove that they understand more about the celebrity than the other fans!
I'm very glad I got my obsessive fandoms over with before the internet took off. I might have been tempted to become a Big Name Fan, and I'd never have established a real life if I'd gone down that road.
Like R11, I tend to see it as a puzzle and as way to understand human beings as well. In a way truths and behaviours that may be uncovered later on about celebrities help me understand behaviour in people who are part of my life, sometimes people from older generations.
Sometimes I see a pattern and when I recognise it somewhere else, bam! I jump to conclusions.
Might be the wrong way to go about it, but I've been doing it for too long to stop now.
Also, when I was in my late teens/early twenties, talking about "gossip" (old or new) re: actors was just a way to discuss issues without having to talk about yourself or anyone you knew (for example: adultery, etc).
Don't feed the name trolls. This is about how it works, doesn't matter who it's about. It really doesn't.
I agree about the arcane knowledge being the new currency in human small talk and relationships. As a sort of entertainment.
Because I've always been in rather unstable situations professionally, it's sort of always been like this for me.
Like R20, I've been more into celebrities when I was unhappy in love and totally uninterested when my emotional and romantic life was fulfilled.
Sadly, after my last great disappointment (2007) I believe I'll remain a fan forever, unless I start writing fiction. Which can only be worse, since I'll probably be even more immersed with the fictitious lives I will have created.
The women I've met who are obsessed with Marilyn Monroe are always, always totally fucked up.
I'd move the Dead up ahead of Buddha.
[quote]That said however, what makes a person completely obsessed with a celeb, moreover a B or C-list celeb, which is what DL seems to attract?
I think it depends on the celebrity.
If it's a really attractive person, it's self-explanatory, but also factor in that B/C status gives the illusion that the celebrity is more accessible.
Very true, R27. Some fans especialize in B- and even more so C- celebrities - and usually become highly knowledgeable about their lives and career. To me these are truly deranged.
Apologies to those concerned who are reading this thread, of course.
I remember when I first started out in H-wood. I was interning at a very popular soap opera. We did the copying, sorting, mail sorting etc. One of our jobs was delivering scripts to dressing rooms. Usually the actors were on set and not in there but sometimes they were.
I worked with an intern who was an obsessed fan. The production staff didn't know it, but I figured it out the first day. We were sorting mail and there was a letter addressed to the hairdresser of the show. I asked, who is XXX? and he freaked out on me. How could I not know who this person was?
So anyway, he would always always take he script delivery job. No one really wanted it anyway. He was off one day and I had to go do the script delivery. The protocol was knock on the door, wait for an answer, knock again, wait. If no answer open the door put a script down and leave.
I do this and knock on the door of one of the actresses, She says come in. She looks at me and says "I have not seen you before are you new?" I explained to her that I had been there for a month, but XXX always wants to deliver scripts. She looked at me shocked. She said "He really creeps me out. Every time he sees me he just stares and says I just love you so much.." I told her if she was really concerned she should tell the production office. She said 'well you seem nice." I told her to be honest I had never seen the show before I got the internship. She laughed and said that is probably better than hiring obsessed fans.
First thing I learned about actors is never approach them as a fan. It scares them and they will never see you as anything else. You can appreciate their work, but never talk to them like they are their characters.
[quote]First thing I learned about actors is never approach them as a fan.
Then why approach them at all?
The Datalounge may have a fangirl invasion at the moment, but it's mostly being spared the highest level of fan craziness - the thing where the fans set out to rescue the celebrity from some imaginary threat. We saw it with the Notorious Ponies, where the fans wanted to rescue their little gay hobbits from the Evil PR who wanted to force them into the closet. We're not seeing any of that from the invading fangirls, are we?
Of course we ARE seeing that from one solo fan troll, the one who believes that a certain beautiful celebrity is being beaten up by his husband. That guy is the worst sort of batshit fan, there are restraining orders in his future if not his present.
With the rarest of exceptions, obsessed people who KILL are male, it seems to me.
That puts lesser forms of fandom in perspective, no?
You're really grasping, R32.
When I first became a fan of an actor, my life had become boring and his life seemed to be exciting, I wanted to BE him. That was my fantasy. That phase passed but then I just became curious about him and still liked to see his films and read about him. I liked to see his films because he was very attractive.
R32 probably built a massive shrine to some minor celebrity in her bedroom and rationalizes it by telling herself that would never "hurt" the celebrity so it's perfectly normal.
For me, it's self harm. Falling for someone unattainable, knowing they are unattainable, is giving yourself a big stick to beat yourself with 'oh I'm no pretty/thin/clever enough for him'.
I have a good life - married, great job, money, amazing friends - but there is that little voice in my head always saying: 'you're not good enough'. That's what having a crush on someone I obtainable is, just fuel to burn yourself with. Every time I see he's fucked someone I can hit myself with the 'well, it'll never be you will it - you're not good enough' stick.
Hmm. That was a little more candid than I intended.
[quote]Falling for someone unattainable, knowing they are unattainable, is giving yourself a big stick to beat yourself with 'oh I'm no pretty/thin/clever enough for him'.
I think this makes you a tad more normal than actual obsessed fans who think they're the 'perfect' mate for the celebrity.
The thought that "No one else is good enough for him/her, but ME!!!"
R36 First world problems
Honestly, could you be any more narcissistic? You sound like a self-involved mess.
r30 I meant in the context of actually working in H-wood.
I learned three things pretty fast
Never approach them like a fan
These people are not your "friends"
No one in Hollywood is 100% straight.
It's not much different from religion, is it?
When you fall in love it's about them not you. But of course for most "fans," it isn't about the celebrity and they aren't really in love.
I wish someone would make a documentary on obsessive shippers, I've seen some really insane Jonestown type shit on the internet.
I imagine it's a transference thing for them. They are lonely, bored and crave love and what they believe to be an exciting life. They feed into each others' delusions. It's easier to concoct some imaginary whirlwind romance between celebrities than to actually find romance for themselves. I also think they all have incredibly low self-esteem and are therefore trying to live an imaginary idealized life through an "attractive" celebrity.
I think my favorite part about obsessed fans is when they'll say the celeb is the most perfect to ever walk the earth because he or she treats people like they're normal.
Well fucking give them a peace prize!
I've read about some infamous obsessed fans, including some that went far enough to break laws. Most seem to have mental issues. Some are just lonely and depressed, others are completely delusional.
I guess I can confess here that I have always had imaginary relationships with celebrities. I'm in my mid twenties but have never had a partner, in part because I've always been unpopular and in part because I've struggled a lot with my sexuality. I imagine being with some celebrity, when I'm alone, what they would say about something etc. Yes, it's pathetic. In my defense, I'm not delusional. I know it's not real and I have never tried to meet a celebrity and wouldn't even want to.
Why B or C list? Lots of A list celebrities have delusion fans too. My obsessions have always been lesser known actors, singers, dancers etc because they seem more accessible - I don't mean in a way that I could fuck them one day, but they seem more ordinary, more like us than the big stars. I feel like with A-list stars there is no way to tell apart the person from the image anymore.
It's a product of isolation, psychological damage and loneliness.
I pity them, it's impossible not to, but they're still creepy and annoying. I've never understood why they "nest" here, rather than on websites dedicated to the celebrity.
I wonder about the real opinions of some celebrities who have these types of fans. If they had to choose between this level of obsession/devotion or a very tepid response, which would they choose?
I imagine it would depend on the ego of the celebrity.
R19, you forgot:
Rebecca Schafer had an obsessed fan...
R38: You couldn't be more wrong.
[quote]I had a personal trainer who studied the ways famous actors of the 1940's dressed and walked and talked and tried to alter his speaking patterns and his way of walking to be more like, in his case, Cary Grant or Humphrey Bogart. It was remarkable to observe because he was very good at the effort. He claimed I would not believe the positive effect it had on his business for the good. Of course, he did not tell the clients.
At least that guy sounds strategic, more than fawning. I'd be impressed if a trainer carried himself with a hint of Grant and Bogart. Better that than My Cousin Vinny.
OP is talking more about those who fawn and fawn, obsessively sucking up and chewing on every microscopic detail about the person. That, more than tactical study and emulation.
No group of obsessed fans could ever come close to the Claymates.
I read once that the mass girl-hysteria over those fugly Beatles was a direct result of post-traumatic stress from the recent Kennedy assassination.
Its personal projection. They see their "ideal self", who they aspire to be, famous, stylish, watched, important, wealthy...and live vicariously through that. They transfer those feelings into a warm emotional attachment and intellectual fixation
No, I'm really good at spotting narcissism, R36. I am a narcissist myself and it's really easy to spot it in others. I don't usually point it out, but, in your case, it was so glaringly obvious that I couldn't help myself. I'm not saying you're a total narcissist per se, but your post was VERY narcissistic. Narcissism isn't always about being arrogant and nasty; self-importance, self-involvement, "humblebragging" and low self esteem (at the core) are all markers for this neurosis. Of course, a true narcissist will always deny deny deny the truth about him/herself.
R56: Well then, that leaves me very little room to defend myself so I'll bid you adieu.
I'm not sure fans of B and C list actors know they are not A list. I've noticed fans will be shocked that someone isn't on the cover of every magazine or doesn't get nominated for major awards. Even when these actors don't get great reviews and their shows/movies/albums aren't financially successful. They are so focused that they can't see how much more popular the A listers are.
I wonder what the older (not adolescent) fans were like before the internet. These days a 40 plus person can create a fan site and kind of hold court with other fans and become sort of a star in their own little world. I can't imagine a 40 year old being openly obsesses with say original 90210 or Duran Duran. People would think they were nuts. I see lots of self identified grown ups on the interwebs obsessing about things geared towards tweeners.
Personally I think I tend to follow and root for certain B listers because it's potentially more exciting if they do well. It's like how it's more exciting when your team that hasn't won in 50 years finally wins vs. a team that always does well. Every time your B lister gets a part or gets a nomination or any amount of attention it's a little victory. With A listers you're more likely to be disappointed when they don't win or have big sales.
What gave you away R36, was that you are evidently surprised every time you say to yourself you aren't good enough for this or that celebrity to fuck.
There's a million reasons for attaching oneself to an image. It can be the character he/she plays; it can be sexual; it can be their lifestyle; their success story, etc!
Even in the remotest area of this planet, a human being may see, or hear a celebrity, and form an imaginary bond of some kind. That goes true with the poorest of the poor in our own country.
Ask your grandparents about how the entertainers kept their spirits up during the Depression, World Wars, and major catastrophes.
But give yourself a break anyway since your antagonist is a self-admitted narcissist.
R59: I was going to flounce off but you are actually quite interesting. I think I could learn something from you. I'm not surprised when I think that though, I'm utterly miserable. Anyway, this isn't the place for a drawn out discussion, but thanks.
Richard Grieco!I used to cover my walls with the pictures of Richard Grieco when I was a teenager. Nothing he did during those fancrazy years was wrong. All the bad stuff written about him was pure lies lies lies. He was going to be an Oscar winner and my future husband, lol. I was 14 years old. If any of those crazy Cumberbitches or Rennergirls are over 18 years old I suggest they get help. It has to be a mental disorder.
Brangeloonies. Thread closed.
R64 I suspect when they part ways there'll be numerous suicides.
Strangest thing I ran across with this type of behavior was when we were house hunting and went into one place owned by an older couple. As we went through the rooms I kept seeing framed pictures scattered on tables, dressers, on the mantle, etc each one containing a photo an actor or actress from a soap opera ... all had been cut out of magazines.
It was kind of sad.
Only kind of sad? That sounds downright pathetic to me. I wonder if they ever had people over and what they thought of that. I also wonder if they had kids and how they felt about those pictures. I've always thought it would be strange to be a family member of an obsessed fan. I'd think it would be kind of depressing to have a family member care more about strangers than them.
It is a bit strange r66 but not as strange as a mother who can not part with her baby's poop diapers and string them in her basement. THAT pretty much takes the prize for strange behavior. Give me the soap opera pictures.
I agree with r58, it's exciting if you are following a B lister and they start to experience real success.
Then they totally lose their career...you start to question what happened and can they build themselves back up? So, you still have your distraction from real life.
Well, I guess cannibalizing human beings would be considered pretty strange, too, R68. And it would have about as much in common with the topic of this thread as the aforementioned poop diapers.
It's mental illness.
I told you all about the Englebert Humperdinck Lady. She's pretty typical of this type of obsessed fan. An overweight shut-in, often with real or imagined chronic health problems, few to no friends and alienated from their families.
If you see yourself in this description, please get help.
WEHT Nick Carter from BSB and the love of his life, Kelli from Accounts Payable?
I google actors from time to time and am happy for them when they do well, but I'm not obsessed.
I think one of the big problems with being invested in B listers is there isn't really much you can do to turn them into A listers. A listers are people who chose projects that showcased them well, get offered good parts, and have their projects do well with the masses. These things are a matter of luck and the actors ability to network. A small group of super fans can't make that happen. Super fans often have an unrealistic idea of their power over actors careers and get very disappointed when they are unable to push them up a notch.
R13 i think you nailed it.
I remember being obsessed with The Keane Brothers around 1977. I'm a male and I would listen all day to the radio hoping to hear their hit "Sherry". And pore over Tiger Beat for pics and references to them.
It wasn't even sexual. I just thought they were the coolest thing ever.
"Super fans often have an unrealistic idea of their power over actors careers and get very disappointed when they are unable to push them up a notch. "
Ah yes, that's something you see with the seriously batshit - they want to do something for the celebrity that will put them in the fan's debt. If the fan can boost ticket sales, shout down the Haters, or rescue the celeb from Evil PR, then they expect the celebrity to put them on the team or become a best friend or something. (I'm looking at you, Janbot, but not only you.)
That might be one thing that attracts people to C and B-listers, the illusion that a fan could have power over their careers.
R13 you are on to something.
R68, please tell me you have not come across that actual scenario. Please. Oh god...
[quote]I'm looking at you, Janbot, but not only you.
Do I look like I give a shit?
What about when these poor sad people obsess over someone who never really existed?>
Anderson Cooper has some seriously crazy stans posting on DL who have a really bizarre love-hate obsession for him. They hate his bf Ben with a passion, and are constantly getting into completely stupid arguments with those who don't share their insanity. Fortunately, they tend to stick to the AC threads around here, but man are they fucked up in the head...
Sometimes I think, yes, it is mental illness when it comes to certain people like that stalker woman who threw her razor at Hugh Jackman after showing up at his gym.
In the less severe cases, where someone is just a big fan though, (and I realize most people will probably not go for this explanation because it is not provable or logical really) I think there may be some astrology behind it or the fan recognizes the star from a past life when they were together as friends, lovers, or family members. Venus-Pluto aspects can create obsession or conjunctions to the nodes of the moon can give this feeling of familiarity or a "fated" quality to a relationship.
This is a very interesting topic, OP. I think many of you have hit the nail on the head about the obsessiveness. What I couldn't figure out was why are so many here on DL?
Not too long ago I looked up one of these demi-celebrities (I'd never heard of him) and found there are lots of fan discussions boards devoted to him (besides all of the usual tumblr shit). On those boards the posters all have monikers, and they tend to either gush over the "celebrity" or fight with each other. They tend to talk about the love life of this "celebrity" like they know him, which they don't. Some posters are very obnoxious and get banned, etc.
So they end up here because they can continue their shit anonymously and think they can get away with it (and they mostly do). And some of the other people follow them over here to fight with them some more. What gives away the folks on those particular threads is that they don't know how to post on DL.
Good post R60.
Brangeloonies are the worst!
Who can fathom the vapid minds and empty lives of stay at home moms. The real question is: Why don't they stay in Pinterest and Tumblr where they belong?
Threw a razor at Hugh Jackman?
Is she sick of him playing Wolverine?
This is coming from a fan of someone but knows this is just a fantasy, escapism. I have a huge crush on this person and he has all the qualities I admire. Ever since I was a child, I have developed crushes on male celebrities. Yes, I am a female. I think it fills a void but I know that and am working on it. I have an addictive personality and am recovering from alcoholism/drug addiction as well. I have a lot of issues with relationships due to the abuse and neglect I received as a child. Been in therapy for it.
The person who said a lot of fans came from dysfunctional backgrounds is absolutely correct. Again, I know that these celebrity crushes are not real relationships and have never contacted the said celeb.
"Some fans especialize in B- and even more so C- celebrities - and usually become highly knowledgeable about their lives and career. To me these are truly deranged."
I don't think there is anything wrong with liking a celebrity or wanting to know more about him/her. Pretty much everyone who watches movies or tv shows has actors they are attached to - what makes someone a "star" in the first place is being charismatic and magnetic, so it's not weird that people would be drawn to them. What's truly freakish to me is the people who can't distinguish between reality and fantasy - like the fangurls who get upset when a star turns out to be gay, because they won't be able to marry him (like if they were straight they'd be dating fangurls or housewives from Iowa). Or people who believe their favorite stars are sending secret messages to them based on the clothes they wear, or people who harrass the wives/girlfriends of their favorite stars (didn't the Jensen and Jared loonies do this?)
I do find myself getting obsessive about this person--thinking about him a lot and visiting various websites for pictures and info. He makes me happy and my life is pretty boring and depressing. I have always been one of those people who needs escapism in order to cope. Anything to numb out my feelings, like drugs and alcohol. I have depression and anxiety too.
I think [r88] is on to something. the only obsessed fan I know is a recovering addict, and says the exact same things about needing escapism. perhaps the shiny celebrity acts as a distraction from pain, and since they're human beings, and the media being the way it is, there is always something new to feed the need for novelty.
still, better a celebrity than a deity
You sound like a very honest and self-aware person, R88 R90. I hope things get better for you, it seems like you deserve some happiness. Good luck.
I saw someone I was a fan of play in a band at a small club. Someone world famous, but playing with others at a small venue. It was weird to see them in person, only feet away, to have eye contact with them, but it was surprisingly horrifying, too. I realized my wretchedness while in thrall. My skin crawls sometimes thinking about it. I do know I have had, until recently, seriously shitty friends, obviously due to childhood mistreatment and adult low self esteem. The new friends, a big step up, have medicinal power (that I conceal) and my fandom is now under intense self-scrutiny.
r88 here. It's funny, I see this celeb as not perfect and I can see through the veneer of this person that he does not have it all together. Yet, I am drawn to him. Sometimes I think he is as fucked up as I am and good at covering it up, which is what I do.
Thank you, r92. I am working on making my life better. Been a long time process.
R88, it's anonymous, so tell us who it is.
Well, I want to but I dont want to derail the conversation.
John Hinckley owns this thread.
I usually have a crush with a movie star which can last a couple of years per maximum, but when the feeling worns out, I feel somehow empty and then it turns into almost hate towards my previously adored crush. Although it's not personal at all, it's still strange and disturbing at some moments. Sometimes it makes me hate all the Hollywood PR machine.
You won't derail it. Just curious. You can just give a hint.
It's like The Truman Show. Remember? Certain celebs become the stars of their own narratives, and it's not always deliberate. The Kardashians deliberately opened up their lives on TV, and it's like watching a real life soap opera.
Well, I think it's the same for a lot of fans of certain celebrities. Fans project that same dynamic onto the real lives of their favorite celeb. They're living real life drama.
We want to know where they shop, what they wear, who they date, did they buy a new house or get some girl pregnant? We want to see their weddings, monitor their pregnancies, and see who the kids look like. Then we watch them unravel when they get divorced.
Try reading the comments from some of these people. Gerard Butler's fans are absolutely nuts. They were arguing about the girl he used to "date" going out with some other guy and it got real insane. They were really invested in it.
Celebs feed this interest by tweeting and posting photos, and letting you know what they're up to. Then they hide their faces and act all upset when photographers show up. They tease fans.
I know I haven't really commented on your question of obsession, OP. But I think obsession starts as I've described, and somewhere along the line, a "fan" crosses the line from being a simple voyeur, to being an obsessive.
I have no idea why certain people attract crazies. Girls went nuts for the Jonas brothers, and now nothing. Then there were the Twilight clowns. People were genuinely upset when they broke up.
Yes,it's crazy, but there are fans who travel all over the country to follow their favorite band, or baseball team, or NasCar. Some people have obsessive personalities and will go overboard for anything.
BTW, I hate the stans and the ones who pick fights with others in this fandom. It is silly and pathetic. Oh, the obsession with the the so-called 'girlfriend', Jesus H. Christ! Get over it. I don't care who he fucks, just as long as he is happy. Oh, and the trolls. I can spot them a mile away.
You put girlfriend in quotes. Is this guy gay, R102?
I have a "crush" on a celebrity right now. I know I'll never see him in person, except from a seat in the balcony, and I know I'll never meet him, because even if we were in the same country or city, I would not want to meet him. I have my ideal of him and I don't want him to ruin it in real life.
I just find him captivating and interesting. I like reading about him, looking at pictures of him, and seeing him perform. But I would never spend money to travel to see him. I would never intrude on him.
I know very well he & I aren't personal friends. He's remote and in some ways, almost unreal to me. Like a character in a novel. But I find him attractive. I have a family, siblings & parents, and I am dating someone special, but I enjoy my fantasies. Some day my "crush" will bore me, and I'll move on.
I hate when people "discover" someone famous, and then study up on them, and become proprietary about them. Like you are the singular authority on this person. Kind of like when a ten year old memorizes the statistics about their favorite sports figure.
r88 is one of the Tom Hiddleston creepers.
No, but there have been rumors he is gay. I think he is bi. His sexuality does not matter to me.
I echo what you feel, r104. Same here, same here.
It's simply our unwritten caste system that puts celebrities on pedestals and makes their fans into obsessed losers. My solution is simply not to allow my "fan" reaction to ignite at all. Kind of ruins the fan experience to be called all those awful names just because I really like a celeb or their work.
I have a theory that celebrites are actually the ones obsessed with their fans, more than the other way around. They *need* us to survive, while we can do just fine without them. Wasn't difficult for me at all to "move on" and let them "move on" into anonymity, which is what happens to anyone who bites the hand that feeds them long enough.
Oh, I think I know who it is, R88. I saw the thread with the argument about him being gay, straight or bi.
Nope. He has been in the news recently due to a film being released.
Am I close?
Tell me, dammit!
r106 has it correct, I am one of those Hiddleston creepers and again, I hate the stans and trolls. I also don't like how you lump us all into one category. Talk about generalizing. The misogyny is strong here too which made me reluctant to tell you who my current celeb crush is. Oh well, there you have it.
I've actually never been in one of those threads.
I do wonder what it is about Hiddleston in particular, -as well as Cumberbatch- that gets women in such a tizzy.
I've never put a celebrity on a pedestal, R108. Not really. No more than I would've put the cute boy from Gym class on one in high school. I don't think they're better than me. I just admire their cuteness and get interested in them, wanting to know about them. Then, after a certain amount of time, it passes, I get bored and that's it.
I think we do variations on this in real life. Have you never met someone at a club, or at work, and you "crush" on them, idealize them, and then the more you get to know them or get used to them, it passes and they are just "meh."
The Tom Hiddleston crush will fade like my other crushes have faded.
Interesting thoery, r108. I do hear celebs talk about being 'Startstruck'. You might be onto something.
Chris Hedges nails it on the topic of our VAPID celebrity culture. He says it's a business built around the yearning for intimacy with the famous, which is a creation of publicists and the mass media. Those who become obsessed with celebrities often profess a personal relationship with them because the personal interviews/profiles give them the illusion of an intimate relationship Celebrity worship has banished the real from public discourse...
The American oligarchy—1% of whom control more wealth than the bottom 90% combined—are the characters we most envy and watch on television. They live and play in multimillion-dollar mansions. They marry models or professional athletes. They are chauffeured in stretch limos. They rush from fashion shows to movie premieres to fabulous resorts. They have surgically enhanced, perfect bodies and are draped in designer clothes that cost more than some people make in a year. This glittering life is held before us like a beacon. This life, we are told, is the most desirable, the most gratifying. And this is the life we want...
And Dr. Arthur W. Hunt says "our obsession with celebrities approaches the same level of devotion that the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Greeks, the Romans had for their deities." "When you look at electronic media, you find sex, violence, and the cult of celebrity are dominant values. So I see a very strong parallel with paganism in what we see in the visual culture of our day."
I would love for a celebrity to post here and give his or her input on what it is like. It is an anonymous board so we wont know who it is.
thanks for the link, r117
"the fangurls who get upset when a star turns out to be gay, because they won't be able to marry him "
Getting upset over that isn't necessarily anti-gay, or irrational. If you love someone and think you know them, then finding out that you've been lied to about their sexuality is a big deal, and the outrage is much more about the lie than the sexuality. That's why it's so hard for people like Travolta to come out of the closet, it'd mean admitting he's lied to his fans for decades.
Plus, all the other fangirls will point and laugh. You guys have NO idea how important intra-fandom relationships are to the serious fangirl, they're the only ones who understand.
We live in a celebrity culture of magical thinking. It does not demand justice or the reparation of rights. It always personalizes issues rather than clarifying them. It eschews real debate for manufactured scandals, CELEBRITY GOSSIP and spectacles. It trumpets eternal optimism, endlessly praises our moral strength and character, and communicates in a feel-your-pain language. The result is that nothing really changes, which is exactly what tptb want.
This magical thinking, preached to us by Oprah, Hollywood/sports celebrities, self-help gurus, etc., is largely responsible for our economic and cultural collapse, since any Cassandra who saw it coming was dismissed as negative nelly. This belief, which allows men and women to behave and act like children, discredits legitimate concerns and anxieties. It exacerbates despair and passivity. It fosters a state of self-delusion. The purpose, structure and goals of the corporate state are never seriously questioned. To question, to engage in criticism of the corporate collective, is to be obstructive and negative. And it has perverted the way we view ourselves, our nation and the natural world. The new paradigm of power, coupled with its bizarre ideology of limitless progress and impossible happiness, has turned whole nations, including the United States, into monsters.
If there is a celeb I admire and if they came out as gay I would admire them even more. I understand the pressures of having to stay in the closet.
People laugh at Travolta because it is so obvious he is gay but is stuck in that evil, homophobic cult. He could easily leave $cientology and come out. The gay rumors have been around forever and if the clams spill info on him, so what?
I agree that celebrity culture is a distraction from the real issues that actually affect us. Of course, TPTB know this and what to keep it this way. I think there are many people in fandoms who are aware of the sad state of the world but feel apathetic to fix it.
R118, I think most celebs -- even ones who work A LOT -- are still always concerned about where the next gig will come from.
Even the ones who have lots of money feel this way.
This is harsh, but someone once said celebs don't know how to be friends with people. They're just too into themselves and their careers.
I work in the biz in LA and I have to say there's a certain amount of truth to that.
The ones that say they are great friends with another celeb and how great the set was, I wonder how much of that is bullshit and just pr.
r125, I wonder if the A listers feel that way--worry when their next gig is going to be yet here they are with their multi-million dollar homes, will never have to worry about money again.
It goes deeper than that, R124. It's flight into collective insanity. Appearance is everything and we define our worth by our visibility, by what we consume, etc. Plastic surgeons, fitness gurus, diet doctors, therapists, life coaches, interior designers and fashion consultants all promise to make us happy, to make us like celebrities. Happiness comes with how we look, with the acquisition of wealth and power, or at least the appearance of it.
In other words, the route to happiness is bound up in how skillfully we present ourselves to the world and hedonism and wealth are openly worshiped
We stand on the cusp of one of the most seismic and disturbing dislocations in human history and our obsessions revolve around the trivial and the absurd.
[quote]“A culture that does not grasp the vital interplay between morality and power, which mistakes management techniques for wisdom, and fails to understand that the measure of a civilization is its compassion, not its speed or ability to consume, condemns itself to death.”
I have heard that for many celebrities, that being famous becomes an addiction. I can totally see that happening, even the ones who act all modest about it. I can tell they are lying.
I often wish I was famous, wishing I had money, fame, talent, good looks. How exciting my life would be instead having to work 40 + hours a week in a dead end job, worrying about money, living paycheck to paycheck. I know that is not realistic but it is fun to daydream about.
R129: I agree. It must do. How can you go from screaming fans to nothing? It's bizarre, the way it works. I knew a guy years ago who everyone found out was friends with the guys in a band who had like one minor hit - I literally can't even remember the name of the band - and all of a sudden he was Mr Popular, got all the girls who wouldn't look twice at him before. It was almost scary, like predators circling in on prey. Very odd.
I did hear once that a lot of celebs - at the lower end - are actually very cash poor and rely on being given free things until they earn more. It's all a game and it can eat people up.
I'm still waiting if someone famous will post on this thread but I think it will be only a troll.
Why would a famous person post here?? I think you might be more obsessed than you realize, r88. Have you considered counseling?
R82, yep I would agree with your explanation of the "lesser cases". There's a ban I'm a big fan of that's been touring Europe this past month and I've been to see them in my town and travelled to another town to see them again. I was always very attracted to the lead singer (in that I am far from alone), and her birthdy was just a few days ago, which I didn't know because I'm not that obsessed.
Through the wonder that is social media, I also learned that 2 of my favourite people out of a group I met a few years ago were born practically on the same day - give or take 1 day or 2.
The two people I personally know are very kind, so they have that in common. The "celebrity" seems like a lot of fun, but she also seems to care very much for those who are close to her.
Anyway, it was a funny coincidence.
Am not big on astrology though.
No, I only want to see how it is for that famous person. I don't care who it is, I just want to know what their experience is like.
r88 here. r133, If you read my post, I am already in counseling.
Some of it is a phenomenon called "limerance" which is actually involuntary. The degree you suffer from it (if at all) depends on heredity and environment. People evolved to have sexual attraction toward others who appeal to them - but they did not evolve to understand the difference between people they know in real life to people they "know" by seeing them on a screen.
Combine that common occurrence with OCD, and you get some pretty extreme celebrity worship - the obsessive interest and collecting of details, photos, repeatedly watching their films, tv shows, listening to their music, satisfies their need to be, well, obsessive, the way someone can't stop thinking about germs and washing their hands.
The commpulsion - well that explains itself. It's like any other addiction. They can't discipline themselves to stop thinking about someone due to the same reasons the gambler can't stop gambling, or whatever.
The fact that fans find out there are other fans puts a stamp of "acceptable" on the behavior, whereas they might feel shame and resist it more than they do, otherwise. The phenomenon feeds on itself.
It's crazy but the sexual attraction element of it is based on evolution, which makes the brain react to someone its attracted to in an obsessive way - and "falling in love" releases endorphins and serotonin; it's exciting in a similar way that falling in love in real life is exciting.
R99, the Hollywood PR machine should be hated.
When I was 15 I dreamt one night that I had spent the evening at a party (awards?) with an actress who was older than me but very much appealed to teens in the 1990s, and then we spent some time together.
Anyway. It was one of the most pleasant dreams of my life.
I felt in a total haze when I woke up because it had felt so real. During the day I remembered thinking how powerful the PR machine must have been to put this person in my dreams.
I imagine it's at a time you are building your personality, plus desire comes in, and there's this huge need to be filled. Perfect fit.
" The psychology of obsessed fans"
Can we talk about the psychology/mental state of people who obsessed with the obsessed fans? They can be equally deranged and must be sexually frustrated too, just like the obsessive fans.
Dammit - stupid mistakes above - meant "understand difference between people...FROM prople they 'know'"; "compulsion" which I mispelled; "makes the brain react to someone IT'S attracted to..."
Yep, celebrity worship is paganism, I believe.
Also, the rapid shot to fame and subsequent burning down of young offerings is to me very similar to human sacrifice. We choose the young who are most attractive (but also most damaged, usually), and there is a sort of game, spectacle where all the eyes are upon them, and then they either survive or die. I believe this is very much like Vestals Virgins in Ancient Rome.
I would like some reading advice from R121. I hope he/she is still around.
What is the name of the discipline that studies what you have demonstrated in your post, is it social studies? Anyway would like to learn/read more about it.
Where is that quote from, R128? We need reading advice from the intellectuals here on this thread.
Thanks, r137. It helps me understand why I get these celeb 'crushes' and why I can get obsessed. I do have some OCD issues too.
Thanks,r137. Helps me understand why I do this--get these intense crushes on celebs and yet it feels so real. Intellectually, I know it is not.
Oops, posted twice. Sorry about that. I thought my original post got eaten. Oh well.
Interesting point R139. There's a basic human tendency to want to look down on others in order to feel superior. I think at least sometimes that plays a part in enjoying the disdain they have for anyone they consider a "weirdo" or "lesser being" (and thus enjoying thinking about them, or laughing at them, etc., as some non-limerents are doing here.)
On the other hand, I think it's an interesting phenomenon, and you can be interested without being amused or disgusted. It's a common human behavior - but why does the human brain react like this? Especially in situations when it's completely hopeless and most of them know that -- unless they're really a bit crazy and dangerous stalkers or such.
But then, why do people smoke after they get emphysema, drink after liver damage, keep overeating when they're fat, etc. Because it's something they get "off" on -- it's a high. And often an enjoyable distraction from their mundane lives.
And it's not just the lonely who do this. Studies show that one can only really stay in the amorous state of "being in love" for an average of four years or so, max. So you find your dream mate and the endorphins are flowing and you're walking on clouds? That ain't gonna last.
Then you see that hot jock at the gym or the latest Daniel Craig film... whatever, and your rhythmical biological clock is ready for a new relationship. Yet our society is mostly based on monogamy, so since the limerance, the attraction, is involuntary, you "fall" for this new person without even meaning to.
I would imagine these crushes probably last longer or are more severe in people who can't move on from their present relationship or they aren't able to get a real-life partner. Fantasy and obsession is there to take the place of a new relationship, and we're biologically programmed to look for that new relationship, within a few years, even if we're in one already.
This varies somewhat among individuals, of course, because sex drive varies a lot - some people have none or not much, and are unlikely to have this syndrome - at least I'm pretty sure it's basically rooted in the sex drive (and/or the need for intense romantic relationships.)
And I misspelled limerence. But it's a fascinating subject if you want to Google it. And it isn't new. Rudolf Valentino died in what? 1920's? Women lined up for blocks to see his casket, having become enamored of him by watching his films, which were clearly designed to produce their reaction. (Men would have too, if society had allowed it back then.)
Before that, stage "matinee idols" - before that, the good-looking young man down the street or that you saw at the village fair every so often and schemed to seek him out whenever possible.
I think you can piece out this particular aspect of celebrity worship from all the other crap - materialism, modern magical thinking, etc. - and find it's an expression of a basic human drive - often complicated by OCD.
BTW, Narcissists are less likely to experience this phenomenon -- a true Narcissist or a severe one (personality disorder level) probably can't experience it at all because they can't love anyone else besides themselves - they can't get out of their own self obsession long enough to develop an "other-directed" passion. They don't even see other people as separate individuals but merely as tools to use for their own glorification, but that's a whole 'nother subject...
Though Narcissists do love to glom onto celebrities and become their webmistresses or "head fangirls" and run messageboards and such for their supposed idols, but that's just so they can bask in the glory of their "special bond" with the celeb and enjoy the envy of the true fans (the people actually infected with feelings of limerence toward a celeb.)
"Can we talk about the psychology/mental state of people who obsessed with the obsessed fans? "
The people clucking about obsessive fans are here on a celebrity gossip forum, aren't they? We're similar, but not as extreme, and it's an odd aspect of human nature that people who are similar to ourselves can bother us far more than our opposites.
I worked in the music biz, the scariest fans, at least for me, are the ones who travel all over the world literally following their favorite musicians. They seem to be everywhere, some even book rooms in the same hotel the object of their obsession is staying in.
I had to wonder, especially when I'd see a lot of the same faces upfront at numerous gigs in different countries and different states, do these freaks work?
Many of these super fans were well into their late 20s to middle aged, yet there they were, traveling for an entire tour? I'm not talking about female groupies, though some of these people would be considered groupies, of course, they'd be the first to deny it. Very few of these super fans have sex with the musicians they follow, yet there is a groupie element to their behavior.
Sting has odd and extremely rabid fans. They join his fan club to secure upfront seats and involve themselves in the usual nonsense that super fans get into: scoring promo items, collecting laminated passes and buying up every limited edition LP and CD. If they could score their faves actual clothing, they'd do so.
A few of these super fans were trust finders, they were able to follow Sting all over the world because they didn't work. One was a pushy obese woman who took pleasure in bragging about her escapades on a Sting forum, she'd snark to other fans how she'd buy so-so from Sting's entourage a gift from Prada.
I initially found out about this woman because I was a Police/Sting fan, I had recognized her from a few shows early in the Police's career, she stands out like a sore thumb. Years later, I'd worked on one of Sting's tours, I saw her in action, pushing her way into Sting's inner circle, under the guise of having mutual friends.
All I can say is, a lot of these fans are extremely scary. I'd never want to be famous!
Oops typo, I meant to type, "trust funders".
What are trust finders?
r150, man oh man that is scary, pushing her way into a famous person's inner circle. How did she do that? I can just imagine! EEK! Now THAT would be a scary person to deal with for anyone. Wow. I agree, I am glad I am one of the many and unknown!
There are so many troubled souls out there.
at least the fans are talking about someone and not THEMSELVES HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAA
[quote]at least the fans are talking about someone and not THEMSELVES HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAA
Damn! Self-obsessed fuckers creaming over themselves in a gossip forum are worse.
R153 : Think Kathy Bates - "Misery"
Apparently someone still leaves a red rose on Valentinos grabe each year the day he died I heard..
I fail to see how spending any time on a gossip board makes one akin to a superfan, r149. That's like saying, "You eat, don't you? You're similar, but not as extreme as someone suffering from anorexia or morbid obesity."
R319 has a point.
R139 has a point
What is wrong about talking yourself? Are you referring to narcissism? I'm confused.
r139's "point" was nothing more than "I know you are but what am I?"
R121 and R141 have the most interesting POV.
I also think we identify with success. It attracts us. The more drab our lives are, the more we project onto a celebrity's life. It's as if they were a family member and we bask in their achievement, even take ownership of it.
We study their interviews trying to familiarize ourselves with their journey, and study their personality, trying to find a link in common. Does Joe Jonas likes oatmeal? I like oatmeal.
I've seen that with film stars and TV series actors a lot. Take Hiddleston. Lets say you are obsessive about him. You worry about whether or not he gets a role he's up for, whether he's "happy," or whether he'll get nominated for some Award. We create a world where we know who he dates, who his friends are and how he spends his leisure time.
Awards show are the next level. People love awards shows because they symbolize the recognition a fan never gets in their own lives. These celebrities are working in a profession they love, and they are being successful in it.
They have all the "toys" and trophies of that success, and now they are getting an award. So the fact that we may be worried abut getting laid off, gets pushed in the background and we are preoccupied with their success.
The line between reality and fiction is blurred, in a lot of cases, and some people look at an actor's trajectory and their personal life the same way they would if the actor were a character in a movie instead of a real person.
It's like the Kerry Washington character in Scandal. Some people see her in real life as an extension of her character Olivia.
I agree the most bizarre ones are the ones who follow their object of desire from one country to another. That isn't only reserved for music fans. Some people do the film festival circuit, or the awards shows circuit, or the movie premiere circuit the same way.
You have to wonder if they spent half that energy and focus into something for themselves, would they be further a long in life? Maybe, maybe not. Some people would rather project onto a celebrity, than try to achieve something. It's fear. We are more comfortable with failure. It's familiar to us. So we project and live thru other people's lives.
I traveled to see the Grateful Dead when I was in HS and college. It was fun.
I got to see new cities all over the country and the music rocked.
I know a lot of people who are travelling long distances to see Tom Hiddleston in 'Corialanus', flying from the states to England just to see him on stage. Part of me is really jealous that I am not going and part of me is proud that I am not that obsessed. If I had the financial means, maybe but I have to think about it.
I am often questioning myself whether I have gone too far, worrying what others think. He has a huge following on twitter which I am on. I get a weird feeling when I am on there, a lonely feeling. Sometimes it is fun, other times it is not. It is like high school mentality. There seems to be a lot of cliques and I often feel ignored which is a huge issue with me. Yes, I have abandonment issues.
Great post, r165.
I don't think going to see Hiddleston on stage is a sign you're obsessive. But if you make a practice of following him around, and show up wherever he is, and you lose a job, or spend your life savings following him, and you believe he somehow "knows" you, and you two are friends, then, yeah, you should worry. But flying over to see him perform on stage might be a fun excursion on a lot of levels.
There used to be prancing ponies here for Frank Ocean too. And AC.
R139 is being defensive which is different from actually having a point.
R167, with the internet, people get together to do things of common interest more frequently and more readily than they ever did before it. I think, yes, the internet fuels obsessive fans, but it can also be a good place to find people with common interests who have outings and do social, interesting things together. I think it's just a question of degrees.
I'm an old queen who could've seen Richard Burton and James Earl Jones on stage doing wonderful work. I especially love Shakespeare. My one regret is that I never saw them perform on stage, and I actually had the means to do it.
Never seen anything like it.
There's been 4 threads dedicated to it right here on DL thus far.
Thanks to the resurgence of a band I was a fan of at the turn of the century (I've never used this phrase before!) I travelled to Cologne recently. Really enjoyed the break.
Am considering travelling to Edinburgh in a few weeks and maybe Brussels in December.
Edinburgh would be great, but it's very unreasonable. Brussels would be easier to organise, but no less unreasonable.
Those prancing ponies with the secret gay relationships like LOTR or Supernatural. What would they do if the guys actually came out?
My one bona fide obsession came after I met a celeb and after I was told he was gay and that he shared my ethnicity on his maternal side. I wanted to work for him and managed to show up about eight times ... I frightened him I am sure.
You know, on one level, I don't think anyone questions NASCAR fans, or football or baseball fans for following the team. I've read several warm human interest stories about some geezer who's traveled with the team to all their away games to "show his support." This is how he chooses to spend his leisure time and his money.
So what? As long as you don't impoverish yourself, or stalk someone who gives a fuck? Just remember: They are not your "friends." They don't "know " you, and you will never be besties or have a relationship with them. You are a nose pressed against the glass, at best.
I think traveling to see someone perform is fine if you can afford it. Some people who do this are going into debt, dipping into retirement funds, missing rent payments, quitting jobs to make it happen. That's when it's unhealthy. Nothing wrong with taking a trip to see something special.
"You know, on one level, I don't think anyone questions NASCAR fans, or football or baseball fans for following the team. I've read several warm human interest stories about some geezer who's traveled with the team to all their away games to "show his support." This is how he chooses to spend his leisure time and his money."
Straight guys are as nutty about sport stars as straight women are about Hollywood celebrities. They live vicariously through their "teams" and feel like it is some sort of personal slight if their team doesn't do well.
Some straight guys also tend to hate on sports stars wives and girlfriends. Some will take out hits on women who accuse them of crimes. They will make all kinds of excuses for some truly heinous shit.
I went for a drink with a guy from work and he told me he went to Germany to follow F1 racing with a friend who was an F1 nut. I thought he had good taste up until then. He's been single since forever.
R113, I have a personal theory about Hiddleston and Cumberbatch, and I'd add Dominic Monaghan in here too.
The quirky-looking ones also attract women who fear being put town for their own appearance, or have been rejected by very goodlooking guys in their real lives. It's limerence, but for an object they think won't reject them because they're less than perfect. He must be better than the others because he's imperfect too, and so he'd understand exactly how it feels. Of course they don't think of him as unattractive; they see him as perfect precisely because of his imperfections.
IMO this is also related to the current Hollywood fad for actors with eyes set slightly too close together; seems like they're everywhere lately.
I would add Robert Pattinson to the list of 'quirky' looking guys who ugly fraus go gaga over because they are safe and nonthreatening.
I think some of the Cumberbatch thing relates to him playing Sherlock Holmes. Holmes has a lot of devoted fans anyone or anything related to Holmes will attract them.
I think quirky looking people seem more attainable. I don't think it's complicated. 10s are inherently less attainable than 8s or 5s. They have the most mating options. Quirky or "average" (by Hollywood standards) look like attractive people you might actually know in real life and are thus more relatable than people who look like Gods and Goddesses.
I don't think Pattinson is quirky looking. I'll give you that he is safe the way most teen or tweener idols are sexually nonthreatening. Young girls prefer not overtly sexual men because they are young and just getting used to becoming sexual. Most women grow out of this, as they become more sexually mature they prefer more masculine males. Some women don't seem to out grow their adolescent tastes or they just revert when they hit menopause. Might be reliving their teens when they get older.
"The quirky-looking ones also attract women who fear being put town for their own appearance, or have been rejected by very goodlooking guys in their real lives. It's limerence, but for an object they think won't reject them because they're less than perfect. He must be better than the others because he's imperfect too, and so he'd understand exactly how it feels"
Guys who are famous movie stars have waaaaay more options than the average guy, regardless of how "quirky-looking" they are. A "quirky-looking movie" star has more options than a conventionally attractive but poor guy.
It's interesting to note that, in general, the obsessions of boys/men are generally more accepted than those of girls/women and that the objects of boys/men obsession are normally the same gender. Like someone above said, no one questions boys/men's obsessions with sports figures/teams from the time they are little boys until they die.
On the other hand girls/women normally obsess over the opposite gender, usually involving some sort of romantic feelings. When my niece was in 5th grade, she worshiped Mia Hamm, because she loved soccer and her classmates assured her she was a lesbian even though she wasn't/isn't. Not to mention, female obsessions are accepted only through childhood/teenage years. Once they become adults, their obsessions are considered strange.
My dad went to Notre Dame, a thousand miles away, solely because he worshiped/worships their football team, and he knows everything about almost every single Notre Dame football player/coach from day one. My uncle still follows Notre Dame all over the country 25 years after he graduated. His best friend is a huge Cowboys fan and even though he lives on the east coast, he never misses a game. My friend's brother was a huge "Dead Head" and followed the Grateful Dead all over the place. All of this is totally "acceptable".
One exception to this rule: Trekkies, which are mostly male but are considered strange, but still not as strange as a grown woman obsessing over anything.
"Never seen anything like it.
"There's been 4 threads dedicated to it right here on DL thus far. "
Just so you know, those threads were full of Haters, not fans. Mostly haters of Stewart, some haters of Pattinson, and of course they all hate Twilight and the Twitards.
But the psychology of people who devote themselves to Hating something is for another thread.
Fat frau navel gazing thread. Why don't you gals create a tumblr account together?
I kind of get the hate. I can see how people see these behaviors as stupid and even disgusting.
But I agree with the poster who said that straight guys' equally stupid obsessions are considered fine and dandy - that it's perfectly normal to paint your face in warpaint, and yell ludicrous war-chants at the players, and spend thousands travelling to idiotic football games where freakishly huge steroided men slam into each other time after time, in the desperation to get their hands on an oblong pigskin ball before the freak with a different colored shirt does.
Is that not stupid and disgusting? And in some countries, men launch into stampedes or kill each other over this ball-game nonsense.
As Tom Waits said, we really are just monkeys with money and guns.
[quote]Venus-Pluto aspects can create obsession or conjunctions to the nodes of the moon can give this feeling of familiarity or a "fated" quality to a relationship.
True. I would also look for hard Neptune contacts with personal planets in natal and synastry charts.
[quote]Guys who are famous movie stars have waaaaay more options than the average guy, regardless of how "quirky-looking" they are. A "quirky-looking movie" star has more options than a conventionally attractive but poor guy.
Exactly, and they're in complete denial about that. So these fandoms tip over extra quickly into that weird rabid hatred for anybody he's dating or even paired with in the press.
I don't discount the Sherlock Holmes attraction, but Cumberbatch fits the geeky-ugly type especially well because of the brilliant geek personality the writers gave this Holmes incarnation.
The other thing with Cumberbatch is the House connection. I was reading a House forum for spoilers when Sherlock was coming out. Some people were offended that it seemed inspired by House and then someone mentioned that Cumberbatch played Hugh Laurie's son in a show. That seemed to get those, who were not offended, more interested in him. I think he picked up some obsessed House/ Hugh Laurie fans when that show ended.
You're right that the brilliant geek socially awkward thing is attractive to socially awkward geeky fans. They think these guys are like them.
I don't hate obsessed fans as a rule, assuming they aren't mean and nasty. I follow pop culture myself. I do find the sociologic aspects of fandoms interesting. When I would read forums for TV shows (looking to discuss the show) I would notice how personally people took things and how angry and hostile they would get. I often wondered who these people were, what they looked like, how old they were, their gender ect.
"You're right that the brilliant geek socially awkward thing is attractive to socially awkward geeky fans. They think these guys are like them"
I suppose that's why Hiddleston gets the obsessive fangirls, and his much more attractive co-star Chris Hemsworth does not. That one has always puzzled me.
I'm sure there are plenty of women who want to fuck Hemsworth. They just don't feel the need to form clubs for him. I think the less geeky girls might not be as likely to see Thor or less likely to obsess. There's a Vulture article about how low the E scores were for the super hero actors, especially amongst women.
I love my favorite actors and musicians, but I find it extremely creepy when some fans keep showing up at every premiere or concert because they want to be close to their favorites. Some people are just very disconcerting and worrying.
I understand going to the concerts but every premiere is weird. Concerts are entertaining. Showing up at photo op events less so. I feel like those people are trying to create a relationship with the star. The star has to be there and the fan is using that as an excuse to spend time with them. It's like sitting next to someone in class or the bus and pretending it's a date.
[quote]I traveled to see the Grateful Dead when I was in HS and college. It was fun. I got to see new cities all over the country and the music rocked.
I think the difference between you and the Sting 'super fan' I wrote about is that this woman is now in her early 60s and is still traveling around to see him. How to I know? I still keep in touch with some members of Sting's longtime crew, he's kept the same roadies and tech crew since his Police days.
It's easy for types like this wacky fan to permeate his inner circle. She was from money, his manager and other handlers knew she wasn't looking for a job and since she's not attractive, his handlers figured she wouldn't be looking for sex. These types are extremely persistent.
What I found particularly scary was the fact that his management doesn't'even think about these types sometimes snapping, they are so obsessed, they start to have more extreme delusions about their idols. Remember what happened to Selena?
I agree with you, just going to concerts is normal, but if you go just to be close and not because you want to enjoy the music than its creepy.
I also find the hype around celeb babies very sick.
But some celebs obviously feed the creepy fans by constantly arranging those photo ops with their kids. Garner, Witherspoon, Berry, Jolie, Holmes just feed the creeps by selling their kids privacy for their own PR.
[quote] Some people are just very disconcerting and worrying.
You really need to find something more substantial to "worry" about.
This whole thread and its genius contributors are an indictment of our nihilistic culture.
I think the Dead had a whole community it was like a traveling festival. They'd camp out together. I think the Dead Heads were there for each other as much as the band. They could be annoying, always trying to convince me I should love the band. That Sting fan doesn't sound like A Sting version of a Dead Head, regardless of age.
I think it's funny that they don't think she wants sex because she's unattractive. Just because Sting wouldn't want her doesn't mean she doesn't want him.
Did you just want to practice your writing skills or do you by chance want to contribute something more substantial.
r201: hysterically defensve much?
It must be odd to tour and play to the same people, the ones who pay big money to be up front.
I made a big mistake posting a critical comment of a shit movie of sparkling vampires on IMDB saying the movie was just as stupid and vapid as the books. The stans took after me like locus: harrassing me on other boards I posted (IMDB lists your posting history publicly), sending me vicious PMs, it was scary! Got my task of fandom and it isn't pretty. Back before the dawn of the nets these lunatics were confined to their basement: now they are out there ready to draw blood
R192 It's funny I have always been a fan of Hugh Jackman so one day I googled his natal chart. I'm not going to hunt him down and stalk him or anything, but I had never seen anything like our synastry, pretty much all of it was 3 degrees or less:
- Both our moons oppose the other's Neptune
- His Mars conjunct my Venus and trine my moon
- My Mars trine his Venus, Neptune, and Juno and sextile his Jupiter and Pluto
- His sun on my AC
- My sun on his DC and trine his north node
- My moon and vertex on his IC
- His moon and vertex on my north node
- My Lilith on his AC
- Both our Liliths square the other's Venus
- Our Saturns oppose
I think there was more but I can't remember all of it. If he was just a regular guy on the street I would probably be drawn to him.
I think it is a difference liking your celebs because you can identify and root for the artistic endeavors they are on. But some celebs are just famous because they spin some clever PR campaign.
It may sound arrogant, but like You can tell how smart people are by what they laugh at, same goes for who your favorite celebs are tells a lot about your saneness and your intelligence.
Some fans are crazy, for sure. But what about the celebrities? Why the fuck does anybody want fame? I get it when they're seriously talented and invested in art for art's sake - but a lot of actors, singers, bands, etc., are pretty fucking average, just pushier than most and are driven by a need to be "adored" by the masses -- somebody like Madonna or Justin Bieber. I'm more interested in their psychological issues than their fans'.
r189, my wording was poor.
I meant to say the four threads on DL about the Robstens is speculation and discussion and OMGs ABOUT the Robstens/Twihards.
I didn't mean to imply the four DL threads was Twihards cooing over Kristen's "pregnancy" and secret marriages.
Oh yeah, I pissed off some fans at IMDB and eventually one of them got all of my post deleted. I kind of hate to say it but something pretty awful happened to that fan and her fanaticism might have played a role in her bad luck.
I haven't been deleted in a few years, now.
I think stars got a taste of stardom and it was so great, they never wanted to let it go (Tom Cruise). So they agree to give up part of their privacy but are still able to hide most things from the press and their fans. What's odd is that there is usually quite a bit to hide.
Just about any celebrity has a crazed fan or two. What is more interesting are the big groups of obsessed fangirls, like the Hiddleston people, the Cumberbatch people, the Twilight people, the Brangeloonies, the Prancing Ponies. They sink into a mob mentality.
As individuals, when their fixation fades from public life, or their obsession lifts for whatever reason, they simply move on to another one and join that mob. It has nothing to do with the celebrity himself. It's always about the neuroses and dysfunctions of the fangurls.
I think these people (women) feel unimportant in their own lives.
The fantasy of the celebrity accepting, or even loving them back as much as they love them, would make them feel significant and important.
All the more so if these folks (women) are not in any sort of real life relationships. It's easier to have a relationship in your head than in real life.
R 214 Go to any football or rugby game and you see the whole deranged male population going crazy over their favorite players. Not only that, males tend to become violent when they root for someone. Worst fans ever!
The internet makes the obsessives seem like legions, and it certainly makes stalking a celeb easier, but I've discovered in many instances, certain types float around several fandoms.
They have no social life beyond this crap. The internet helps them "find" each other, and they re-enforce one another. It's kind of a safety numbers thing. "Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm not the only one." mentality. But yeah, often you run into the same people in multiple places. IMDB is a perfect example. And those people are crazy for real.
Yes, posting something critical of the celebrity in question--you will get the wrath of the fangirls and it is not pretty. These are not even girls, they are middle aged women. They are the very definition of 'frau'.
I wish someone would explain to me why watching football in enjoyable. Is it because people who watch, and I realize there are women who like that shit too, is it because they wish they could spend their lives fighting all the time? But they repress that urge, but getting to watch it carried out in front of their eyes is sort of like vicariously slamming their own bodies up against other people, and knocking them down, since they can't do it in real life?
My brother played football in high school (I did not). He's loved it and followed it ever since but not to the extreme degree of these fangurls.
Football is literally, the modern version of Gladiators. WIthout a death at the end.
That's the appeal.
This thread was interesting for a minute when the stans started admitting they all have psychological problems, but now they're getting defensive.
Talk about lunatics, I remember once, I was irritated with the always-in-your-face Taylor Swift. She'd just won something, or released something. Anyway. I posted on some gossip blog, wasn't even her fansite, although I'm sure she must have one, that I couldn't stand her.
I said I found her ridiculous and she probably bought all her awards. You'd have thought I murdered a baby in the town square in broad daylight. Her fans went apeshit. This weren't some tweeny kids either. They were wimmin talking about how wholesome & ladylike she was and what a great role model, etc. and I should die in a grease fire.
They acted like they were her relatives. A few of them recited every minute detail of her song-writing "process," and the number of awards she's won, and all these statistics about her they had stored in their fevered brains. Very disturbing. Oh. A lot of them follow her on tour, too.
The Lambert fans are also some twisted one.
DL has one who refers to him as "Adam" is is always posting about how well liked 'Adam' is by the media and how "articulate Adam comes across" and such.
To many of these people, I'm convinced these celebrities are personal friends of theirs... in the afflicted fans' minds.
It's funny someone mentioned a Sting stalker because I know someone who works for Sting. Sting is basically the CEO of Sting, Inc. He's a real businessman and Trudy Styler is a business woman.
Last year, he sent tens of thousands of dollars in groceries to people living in the Rockaways after Hurricane Sandy; particularly those who lived in those very tall projects that had no electricity.
I don't see the woman who works for Sting anymore because I moved, but my partner sees her when he visits a friend. This same woman was good friends with Courtney Cox when she was married to David Arquette. Arquette liked to hang around musicians and this woman's husband is a musician. That's how she got the job with Sting. Her husband makes very little as a musician. Older studio musicians aren't doing well nowadays. They didn't make enough money to retire on, but the famous musicians they used to work for did and don't make new music, so the studio musicians contacts are drying up.
One thing I noticed about the Englebert Humperdinck Lady that I have noted in other obsessive fans is that they can become enraged with the object of their affections. It's like watching a little girl who is playing with her doll who gets mad and starts smacking her doll around. They'll rage at the celeb for some real or imagined reason -- if he marries someone, if she doesn't get an 8x10 glossy autographed photo, whatever -- she goes into a rage. Later on, she may "make up with him" in her mind, or she may not.
The Englebert Humoerdinck lady often got mad at Engelbert, ripped his photo (she later taped it up and put it back in its frame) raged about him over the phone to a nonexistent person.
I guess these obsessions make them feel as if they have some control over their lives and their relationships. Since they can't control a real relationship with a real person, they control their imaginary relationship with a celebrity.
Michael Jackson fans are INSANE. They send death threats to anyone who says anything about Michael that they don't like. They think he was the messiah or something.
[quote] I read once that the mass girl-hysteria over those fugly Beatles was a direct result of post-traumatic stress from the recent Kennedy assassination.
Except that beatlemania existed all over the world, not just in America. And it began in the UK well before the Kennedy assassination.
[quote] It's simply our unwritten caste system that puts celebrities on pedestals
I'll say. I have seen Daniel Radcliffe on the street and if he were a delivery boy and not a celebrity, nobody would notice him.
I saw several teenaged girls run squealing after Adam Sandler years ago. Not only does he look like a rodent, but his face was as red as ground beef. He must have recently had laser work done. He looked like a freak.
One day in the early 90s I was walking on a pre-gentrified street downtown -- when parts of downtown were still a little scary -- and up ahead I saw this awful looking guy. It was August and he was wearing a black coat -- an immediate signal that he might be a homeless drug addict. His eyes were blackened around the edges, his face as pale as a ghost. I crossed the street reflexively. When I got to the other side, it hit me -- he was Keith Richards. If he hadn't been famous, he would have been a Bowery bum.
Just the fact that these people have been in a film or on a stage has made them desirable to other people. If Keith Richards was delivering your inter-office mail instead of being a Rolling Stone, you'd be horrified by him.
Talking about fans thinking C listers are A list, I was on a different GLBT forum when Queer Eye was coming to the end of its run, and someone posted a pap picture of Carson Kressley shopping in NY. He was with a large, muscular guy, and the fraus all started posting about how sad it was he couldn't go outside without a bodyguard. I posted that Carson didn't have a bodyguard and that the guy was probably a boyfriend/hook-up or whatever.
Well, apparently the 'info' that Carson doesn't have a full security detail 24/7 being made public actively put his life in danger, and that if he got killed by an obsessed fan it would be my fault. Not even the A+++ Listers have the kind of security the fans thought Carson needed/had. Just mental. Not to mention the irony that posting a pap pic taken without the person's knowledge, that clearly IDs that person's home neighborhood is apparently fine and not encouraging to stalkers, but the minute a stalker finds out the person might occasionally go outside without a bodyguard they are of course going to get on a plane and go shoot that person.
They were mainly middle aged or elderly straight women from middle America who thought Carson was just a sweet country boy/perfect gay BF and shopping buddy.
New to this country's vernacular, r223? Do you think her fans refer to her as "Aguilera" and not "Christina"? Or "Perry" and not "Katy"? Or "Lovato" and not "Demi"? Or.....
R180 that is a concern. When you have obsessed fans seeking out ways to post vengeful responses to anyone who dares speak against their chosen celeb, it's scary. These are fans with serious psych issues - even stalker syndrome. Balanced folks would either ignore the commentary or respond with their own view/opinion; not personally attacking the posters.thats just very unbalanced.
It would be great if one gig the fat woman just shouted 'now is the time' like that guy from Mean Streets and launched herself at Sting, bent on coitus.
Sports fans are nuts. They RIOT over their favorite teams.
Or... what if the fat Sting lady clambers onto the stage and says 'happy birthday honey', then, before he can protest, opens her mouth like a snake, releasing thousands of massive bees.
Wouldn't that be fucking awesome?
[quote] I'm more concerned with the mental state of people who are obsessed with other people's obsessions.
There is ONE thread on Datalounge discussing obsessive fans. There have literally been hundreds of threads on Datalounge started by obsessive fans.
One thread on a topic does not constitute an obsession and you would know that if you were sane. One thread about cars doesn't mean there is an obsession with cars on Datalounge. But scores of threads about Anderson Cooper? -- oh yeah. That's obsessive.
You really have to be crazy to equate one thread with the hundreds of obsessive threads that have appeared on this messageboard over the years.
Obviously you're right, R236. It's just the obsessive fangurls getting nervous because they're being called out.
They've already demonstrated that they are mentally unstable, deliberately misinterpreting one thread on the Datalounge is hardly unusual.
R236 Thou doth protest too much.
One thing I've never understood about Brangeloones, is their obsessive hate of Aniston. AJ got the guy, has an Oscar, and gets paid more. If you see these women as being in competition AJ is the clear winner. Yet every time Aniston has a movie out they'll be all over the Deadline comment boards bashing her. Do they want Aniston to build a time machine and not marry Pitt? Do they think she should have foreseen that one day Jolie would want him and she should have made sure he was completely free when that day came. Jolie's hyper sexual, man eating rep was in place prior to Pitt, there isn't anything Aniston could do or say that will change opinions of Jolie. They all act like Aniston is some how standing in Jolie's way, there isn't even any twisted logic to this.
The lesbians with Crystal Chappell etc. Yes, Crystal plays up to it to sell her web series etc, and don't get me wrong I think Crystal is Bi or now only plays gay characters. To be honest, Id fuck her but I think she might have a little crazy in her. Plus the husband doesn't make sense to me. Open marriage?
A popular movie action star with a rabid primarily female base. Look at comment sections.
There was a great mini-series comic book called THE WONDER YEARS about fans' obsessed with Wonder Man, a Marvel super-hero with Superman-like powers.
It captured fan mentality quite well.
The lead female character went through a lot of growth; it showed that some people can move past their obsessions.
I try to think of her when I start to fantasize too much.
She's my hero.
(Well, at least a role model.)
R243 just reminded me of the book AUSTENLAND, which is about an extreme "Pride and Prejudice" fan. It's largely a straight romantic comedy, but it does examine obsessive fandom.
It was made into a film this year, I understand the film wasn't great.
I see a distinction between the teens who go crazy for the Jonas brothers, or the Twilight stars, or even Justin Beiber, but then they move on and out grow it. Particularly with the Twihards and the Jonas. It seems they've faded away to almost nonentities.
The ones who are truly scary are the middle-aged and over stalkers, who are absolutely nuts. Does anyone remember a woman in her 50's who was at some ComicCon event, and was run over and killed crossing the street to get to the convention?
She was someone's fan? It was like a scene out of some black comedy. This happened two or three years ago, I believe.
R247 Her being a fan of Twilight didn't bring harm to your stinking butt but herself. Making fun of someone's death to feel good about your ugly self huh? You shouldn't be anyone's family member or a friend because you're so disgusting.
r247 sure touched a nerve.
Yes, that was a 50 year old Twilight fan who flew to San Diego specifically for the event and was on line for days. Just to see the stupid stars of Twilight.
As far as that fandom is concerned, while the teens have moved on there is still a hardcore group of 50-something+ women who are immersed in their obsession and refuse to come up for air. They are currently convinced that Robert Pattinson and Kristen Stewart are secretly married and are having a secret baby.
I do believe people like R247 went overboard because no one shares or understand his own stupid obsession. He's on a gossip board so of course he has an obsession going on which many seem to reject so he picked on others'.
[quote]Yes, that was a 50 year old Twilight fan who flew to San Diego specifically for the event and was on line for days. Just to see the stupid stars of Twilight
How did that makes your life miserable?
r251 is really reaching now. I can smell her flop sweat from here. r247 must have really hit a nerve!
Really? You deranged overage kids should check your own mental health. Some innocent Twilight fans hitting on your nerves, how pathetic is that?
R248,R251,R252,R254, is a troll looking for an argument. Desperate for attention. Go visit the Twilight fan boards, hon. You can bitch all you want. I intend to ignore you from this point on. Will not engage with you. Your personal attacks mean nothing to me. You belong in an asylum.
Prance, r254, prance!
You don't get it do you? If one of your families dies from enjoying what he liked then do have the nerve to laugh.
Why would you enter a thread about the psychology of obsessed fans and then get upset when people make fun of crazy fandoms?
Mark David Chapman was the ultimate obsessed fan. He obsessed over John Lennon to the point where he had to go destroy him. Obsessed fans who get angered at their obsession are truly dangerous. That's why Baldwin had to go to court about that crazy woman. She could easily get a gun and shoot the whole family.
Websites like zillow, google earth, etc make it easier to find stars. Jennifer Lopez recently bought a house in my town and a crazed fireman sneaked inside her guesthouse and was living there. Luckily he was discovered by security personnel. Obsessions are mental disturbances and some mentally disturbed people can be violent.
Blah blah blah R259. BOO! There's a monster under the bed!