Is being Wiccan shorthand for being socially retarded?
Wicca seems to attract, er, a certain type.
Please refer to the "I'm Sick Of Showering" thread.
NO, but the OP's post is.
Yes, just as Christian is shorthand for being mentally retarded.
People who own ferrets, too.
R4, wolves and otters. Theys my favorites.
A moonie newspaper article gives the factoid statistic of 84% of the world's population being religious.
I wouldn't necessarily single out Wiccans as being particularly "socially retarded," anymore than the rest of the alleged 84%.
But the taking up any religion will make you the "enemy that must be killed" by millions of opposing adherents on this planet. But being an atheist is also seen as deserving the death penalty---even by fundies in the US.
If you must be killed, at least don't let it be for bullshit, which all religion is.
R6, I'd say any religion is like being in love. It makes no logical sense, but your heart goes where it wants - no matter how dysfunctional it appears to be.
I can expand upon my religious upbringing or I can reject it, but I'm always comparing and contrasting different ideas to the original dogma.
One thing I admire about Wiccans is that they don't require an Armageddon. It's a belief in sustainability that encourages respect and mindfulness.
Yes, I suppose that's considered socially retarded in a throw-away winner-takes-all society.
It's shorthand for being fat.
No, it's a line of Birkenstock footware.
I thought this was something you just join in at Michfest every year.
Wow, r7. That was brilliant. And the best description of Wicca I have ever read. Thank you.
By and large most wiccans are bi and large.
In my experience, Wiccans are more like the best sort of Hippie. They love nature, they're kind and non-judgemental, and seem too innocent for this harsh world.
God knows a believe in magic and good intentions are no protection against all the evil out there, otherwise I might join them.
They are like Unitarians with a stronger aesthetic sense.
If one were to do a Venn diagram of gay subcultures, with Wiccans and radical Faeries, there would be significant overlap.
Ohhhhhh boy * eyerol l* Wiccans!
As someone who practices the traditional craft of the British Isles, please DO NOT confuse me with one of these New Age fuckwits who prance around clutching books by Starhawk and chirping "Blessed Be!"
To make an analogy: Calling a traditional witch a Wiccan would be like calling a Southern Baptist a Roman Catholic. Baptists and Catholics are both Christian denominations, but have TOTALLY different beliefs and dogma.
Old school witchcraft and Wicca are both pagan paths but--aside from some very minor rituals--are EXTREMELY different systems.
Since I'm a lazy ass motherfucker, check out the link if you'd like to know the differences between Wicca & Tradcraft.
R16--you do know that "wicca" is a 19th century invention, largely by Gerald Gardner, with no real roots outside of its roots in theosophy and spiritualism, don't you? That it's like all religions--totally made up by one or a few individuals with no real history other than in folk magic and some paranoid church writings that served as the basis for suppression of the population, blame for epidemics, and/or a grab of land? That the term witchcraft is a general term used by anthropologist for people who believe in magical thinking and such and not any organized religion? Wiccans believe that they're practicing some ancient belief system, but they're not.
I know several Wiccans, but only one of them is truly weird and outspoken about it.
Its like any religion; the most obsessive members give the rest a bad name. Wicca is generally very gay affirming and accepting.
My understanding of Wicca is that it was a way for Gerald Gardner and Alex Saunders to formalize and publicize the rituals of British paganism and witchcraft. I think they made up a lot of the rituals based on Crowley's works and so-called ancient pagan practices.
It's like any religion, really. All it takes is for a few people to write down the ancient knowledge and put their own spin and interpretation of it in the texts. Sometimes even making things up along the way. So who knows how authentic Wicca really is. At the time Gerald Gardner was criticized by witches and pagans for being a publicity seeking showman. They wanted things to remain secret.
The early practitioners were the real thing, I think. Now we have fat goth girls who just like to freak people out.
I've read a bit about Wicca and witchcraft over the years and I could be totally wrong. Those with more knowledge are welcome to correct me.
[quote] I think. Now we have fat goth girls who just like to freak people out.
I am GODDESS INCARNATE! My body is that of the Mother herself--ripe, fertile and comforting.
I am Maiden. I am Mother. I am Crone.
I throw off the shackles of archaic, patriarchal belief systems and honor the one, the true Mother Goddess. My covenmates--Freya Firewolf, Willow Winterstar and Rhiannon Ravenmoon--and I cry out to our Mother during our sacred, skyclad rituals and pray she bestows her bright blessings upon ALL womyn.
I hope my parents don't find out.
R16, yes but every Christian is interpreting the bible in their own way as well, so in effect Christianity is being made up and stylized as an individual practice too.
Wisconsin is NOT socially retarded! How can they say that? I have a lovely friend from Wisconsin!
Furthermore, Wicca is often referred to as a "neo-pagan religion." In other words it's a new religion that was invented based on a smattering of rituals and teachings from Aliester Crowley, traditional paganism, etc. It has its adherents, certainly, many of whom are intelligent and seem to know what they're talking about. It's new but they claim it's based on ancient teachings and knowledge. I don't know how you'd prove or disprove that.
I'm sure 2000 years ago Christianity was referred to as a neo-Judaic religion.
So I guess Wicca is as ridiculous or as meaningful as any other recently invented religion. It is what you want it to be. It seems pretty peaceful and harmless, though. They don't condemn anyone to hell and don't insist on rules or behaviours.
[quote] I know several Wiccans, but only one of them is truly weird and outspoken about it.
I concur. It's these idiots out there going
" Oooooh! Look at me, I'm a Witch!"
Fucking attention whores. THESE are the the idiots who are all fluffy bunnies "love and light" shit or "I am Death Muhwahahaha!"
For me, my craft is just something I do, part of my identity.
[quote] Its like any religion; the most obsessive members give the rest a bad name. Wicca is generally very gay affirming and accepting.
Some Native American tribes believe that gay people--what they often refer to as being "two spirited"-- have special abilities to communicate with their gods and are often the shamans / medicine women in their tribes.
IMHO, I believe that many pre-Christian societies were accepting of gays & lesbians. Look at Ancient Rome,the Greeks, etc. Much like a turd in the punch bowl, Christians ruined EVERYTHING
Funny, r20. And somewhat true.
I know tons of Wiccans. The three of them are really nice people.
As some of the posters already know, Wicca is strongly influenced by the work of the anthropologist Margaret Murray (not to be confused with Margaret Mead). Her "The Witch-Cult in Western Europe" (1921) may have spawned the "coven" that Gardner came across in the 1930s and was allegedly initiated into.
Much of Murray's findings were based on confessions extracted under torture by the medieval Catholic church and now discredited. Ironic that any religion would be based on what the professional torturers of another religion call "evidence."
While there's nothing wrong with cosplay, the aggressive nature of humans always push things too far. Of course this applies to all religions and philosophies, not just Wicca. The bigger and more diverse the Wiccan population becomes, the more it will reflect the general population, warts and all. That the occasional wart will be used by much bigger and more malevolent religions to discredit Wicca is a given.
As a non-wiccan Pagan, I can tell you that the "trendy" wiccans are looked upon with derision a lot of the time--they're the 10% minority that generate 90% of the bad press the rest of us suffer.
Then they grow up, and either embrace Christianity, with tales about how pagans are all evil based solely on their own "wicca" experience, replete with their bad LSD trip and trashy orgies, or find a more serious pagan path (like actual proper Wicca, or Heathenry, Druidry or Celtic Shamanism) and spend the rest of their days apologising to the rest of us for their cringeworthy mistakes.
We even have a name for the Buffy-wannabe's, the ones that think "The Craft" was a profound religious documentary, not just Hollywood tat. We call them "fluff-bunnies", owing to the alarming tendency they display to believing the entire world is full of "love and light and, WOW, Crystals, OH MY GODDESS!!" and owning "widdle cutesy bunnies, ooh, aren't they sooo sweeet".
Then there are heathen types like myself that *eat* the fluffy cute bunny rabbits. We rarely see eye-to-eye with the fluff-bunnies.
Granted I've known few Wiccans but I will say that the ones I did meet were fat and, frankly, it just seemed a way for them to get attention and have an excuse to get naked and have fatty orgies.
[quote] Granted I've known few Wiccans but I will say that the ones I did meet were fat
That's mostly a result of the worship of the donut goddess during the lard solstice on the bacon cusp.
Fatness is actually a natural state for the female. Centuries of moulding the female body into essentially male has censured that little truth.
R35, No, females were naturally fat for generations because they were always pregnant or nursing. Girls that were too thin were assumed to be starving and poor.
I was friends with a lady who ran a witchcraft/pagan store in town. She was a really nice lady and a serious practitioner. She did admit to me once that her store, unfortunately, attracted a lot of younger people with low self-esteem.
I do think it attracts a portion of fat, young, awkward people who use it as a way to meet and mingle with other fat, awkward people. It's a way for them to get laid easily.
I've heard this said before: Wiccan girls are, by and large, bi and large.
I know at least three Wiccans.
One is a strange nerdy girl who works at McDonalds. She spends her time reading fantasy novels and railing against her fundamentalist Christian step mother.
One is a very prim and proper 40 year old virgin woman who still lives with her mother. Works in an office. Spends her spare time reading fantasy and historical novels. She's also very into mythology and Japanese animation. She's a very nice though slightly dull woman. To look at her you'd think she was an Anglican.
One is a really awesome academic who just received her PhD in religious studies. Dyes her hair pink when the mood strikes her and can outswear and outdrink the most hardened trucker. Also loves sports and heavy metal music. She's the most fun out of all the Wiccans I know.
Hey, you want totally made-up and inauthentic religion to bash? How about MORMONISM! Made up by a 19th century whackjob, and perpetuated by some truly evil cult fuckers who wanted fifty wives and hundreds of children each.
The Wiccans are good people.
Most of the negative comments seem to be coming from people who don't know jack about Witchcraft, Paganism or Wicca. And they have formed their opinions based on mustarding up the courage to go into a Pagan bookstore/magic shop and deduced that everyone in the store practiced Wicca. The truth is Pagans, Witches, Goths, Wiccans, Heathens, and those who practice magic based on the Norse Mythology are as different from each other as atheists are different from each other. The one common denominator is a belief that the Earth and every living thing on or in it (and that includes trees, plants, water and air) are sacred. There is also a shared belief in reincarnation, that we can tap into natural forces and use them to our advantage and that we are all intuitive and have the ability to create our own reality. Are some Pagans fat? Of course. I have also met some really beautiful specimens of human being and people who are into healthy living and exercise. Pagans/Wiccans/Witches etc, do not proselytize, recruit or expect everyone to bow to our superior beliefs nor do we believe in a punishing God or hell. To each his or her own is our philosophy. To eat, drink and be Merry is our sacrament. All are welcome. But few really have what it takes to sustain the practice and live a life of magic.
I think it's basic tenets are great R43 but the people I've met, and I'm not lumping you all in together, seem to just be in it for shock value or because it's seen as trendy. I used to date a guy who was dabbling in it and he was also really into crystals. Him: "Hey, can't you feel the vibrations humming through this one?". Me: "Um, no, it just feels like a rock". Anyway, he was kind of out there and frankly the idea of going out naked into the ocean at midnight under a full moon sounded exhausting to me. I don't know if all of y'all do that sort of thing but he sure did.
The most sickly, obese group of people in the world are protestants, specifically southern Baptists, look it up.
Protestants are unrivaled in gluttony, self-induced illness, child abuse, addictions, and poor grooming.
Yes, I have met some overweight pagans--they are those that have been abused in childhood and look to wicca/witchcraft to heal from their hypocritical Christian abusers.
But the obese protestants/southern Baptists seem to be fat from hedonism.
Not to mention dangerous, r 44, since Sharks feed close to shore at night:)
Don't think I didn't think of that R46. I know someone who goes to the marine biology school here and he said there are big bull sharks swimming very close to shore unbeknownst to most of the folks frolicking in the water.
[quote]mustarding up the courage...
The other night at the Monster a guy I'd been eyeing started in about Wicca. I ran. Nobody is that good looking.
Here's the official Datalounge rating of hotness amongst humanity:
2. "Spiritual but not religious"
3. Gay/lesbian witches
4. Reformed Jews
6. Irish/German/French/Spanish Catholics
7. Teenager Wiccans
8. Pilipino Catholics
9. South American Catholics
10. Jews, in general
16. Southern Baptists
I said it exactly the way I wanted to say it, r48. But I do think dearly of you.
Is it true most of the world's mustard comes from Ontario?
Wicca, Star Trek, and Renaissance Faire.
Refuges for the sexually and culturally disenfranchised.
r43, the word is "mustering."
Don't compound your error by insisting on it.
P.S. to R49, Halloween night I ran into him again. Guess how he was dressed? His costume enhanced his natural beauty, but I ran again when he pulled out the tarot cards.
Wiccans or anybody who practices so-called pagan lifestyle are actually more spiritual than any Christian, Jew or Muslim, all of whom have completely censured out nature to believe in an omnipotent father who can give birth to everything and has given man dominion over nature.
r52, Canada produces about 90% of the world's mustard seeds.
But in all seriousness, why judge an entire philosophy based on the people that tend to practice it? Especially the way they look. I feel like this is why people don't have any interesting hobbies/interests anymore because they're so busy defining themselves for or against what other people do.
[quote]Not to mention dangerous, R44, since Sharks feed close to shore at night:)
Also, a lot of closeted sharks troll the shore at midnight hoping to suck some wiccan cock.
R24 or anyone else that actually practices:
Do you know where I can find some PRACTICAL info about witchcraft? Pretty much everything on the net seems like bullshit, frou-frou general-speak and no actual step-by-step guidelines for anything. For instance, I was just searching for how to set an intention and all I see are articles about how intention is the most important thing for manifestation. Like, ok...no shit.
Are there any GUIDES to witchcraft?
R16, Wicca and "Traditional Brittish Witchcraft" all arose around the same time and that's why they pretty much do the same basic things. The original magical tradition of Britain is Christian. The are called charmers, pellars, or cunning folk. They actually don't label themselves as witches even thought they do magic. They also incorporate Christianity into their magic.
R61, do you want magic or religion. What is called "witchcraft" today is actually religion. If you want more of the actual magic then you will need to look at things like hoodoo, which is the traditional magical practice here in the South. Hoodoo is Christian though but it's not like Christians that you see in Churches. They are more mystical and liberal. Wiccan and witchcraft today I all about worshipping and following ethical rule sand what not. Hoodoo is all about the magic and the Trinity, the saints, and even using the Bible, is done to empower the works and not as an act of worship.
Fat fake bisexuals who smell of patchouli and cat piss.
Sure. I'm a Wiccan, and an ex-cop who spent 21 years in the military. So I really fit your stereotype. I notice that many under informed people bash things they can't or won't understand due to their limited gifts. Perhaps you may want to take some classes or actually become informed as opposed to make a close minded opinion based on a few people that you probably barely know. Or perhaps bashing people makes you feel better about yourself and/or your religious choices. I suggest you may want to re-evaluate your mind set on several levels. Good evening.
R64, Spot on. When I was a senior in HS back in 94 I met this Wiccan woman. House stank like cat piss and incense. On one hand she was cool and open-minded and knew a lot of stuff. On the other hand she kept trying to get me in the sack. She even slipped a "love potion" in my drank. I could tell because it was like Vodka-based or something. Toward the end of our friendship she tried to get me to go to an orgy with her and her then boyfriend. However, she wanted me to bring a girl with me so that the numbers were even. If that wasn't odd she even told me that everyone there pretty much had one or more STDs. I guess she thought that it would somehow turn me on? And they were all obese, men and women. I'm sure the place stank to high heave of b.o. and sex.
R65, Are you a Gardnerian and/or initiated into a coven that can trace it's lineage back to Gardner or are you among the 90% of the people who are solitary, eclectic practitioners? The reason why I ask is that Gardnerian Wiccans don't recognize the solitary practitioners as being Wiccans. They refer to them as Neopagans and witches, but not Wiccans
One thing I've noticed about people who consider themselves Wiccan is that they're almost all poor. Whatever they're practicing sure doesn't seem to help their finances.
Pagan is a word that Christians use to describe people that aren't Christian. So, if you describe yourself as a pagan, you're essentially identifying with Christianity.
Agree R68, they're usually poor and unattractive and looking for a quick, magical fix.
R24 is speaking of the Mi'kmaq tribe of Nova Scotia, Labrador and the Gaspesie in Northern Canada. Their belief is to embrace and accept everyone. Don't question the creator, they believe. They believe in three genders. Their shamans were gay men with special abilities because of a male/female balance. They titled them "Iron Lady" and another name. They would apprentice as pharmacists and horticulturists in adolescence. Their ceremonial coats were to die for. Their style of clothing was European middle ages. Their DNA contains surrounding Innu and Inuit races. Like a kind of American melungian. They hail from Northern Japan, Ainu. Parts of their old line DNA can also be found around Israel. Hebrew, Japanese and MicMac alphabet linguistically linked in line with DNA findings. Somewhere along the line, they also mixed with African Australoid (proven with dental). They are even finding Viking in some populations. They are the only tribe to have a written language besides the Mayans/Incans. They gave us the term Eskimo, which in Mi'kmaq means raw meat eater. They accepted everyone but they were notoriously snarky. That kind of fits with their clothing,entertainment and elaborate decor. Iron Ladies were highly revered. Early photographs show some manly looking "women" but they were in fact, men dressed in female like garb. So like the Catholics they eventually became (to keep their land) their priests were also gay men. See what they did there?
Native Americans like the Miqmaq are descended from people of the Altai, not the Ainu. The Ainu are one of the oldest and most genetically diverse population groups in east Asia, suggesting an extremely long and stable residence in Japan and other islands.
R74, do not pretend to edumification on matters of human genetics if you do not know the meaning of the word "diverse."
Genetically unique, genetically distinctive, genetically isolated - these describe the (original) Ainu. As they (formerly) maintained idiosyncratic in-group tendencies, there were the opposite of "diverse."
Those are awfully big words for someone who is socially retarded, R75.