What shutdown? Healthcare.gov scandal re-writes history.
The constant daily bashing of the healthcare.gov site is fast replacing the government shutdown as the scandal of 2013. I fear it is doing more for republicans than they could ever do themselves.
Which is a clear sign that either they arranged it or it was arranged on their behalf.
The website problems will get fixed, but the shutdown is part of history. The polling still shows Pubbies with the lowest approval ratings since the began polling: just 22% approve of them. They looked like fools when Sebelius took responsibility for the website. And when this is over, they'll shut down the government again in January just to remind the American people what buffoons they are.
Dems can take a dep breath and wait for it to play out.
Not a chance. People still have months to enroll at the site and they fully understand that technology always has its bugs and annoyances.
The shutdown, however, was pathetic, childish brinksmanship for which there is no understanding or excuse. AND THEY VOTED TO KEEP GETTING THEIR PAYCHECKS.
I don't know about you, but here in Iowa people are disgusted that politicians took our money while refusing to do their jobs. People with a Protestant work ethic strongly resent those politicians and we won't soon forget this insult.
Right. And now the Republicans are suddenly sane, Ted Cruz will disappear, and the House will focus on immigration reform and a jobs bill—not the 45th repeal of the ACA and various 19th century social issues.
Whether or not the website gets fixed isn't the issue.
The debacle and Obama's foolish statements about policies not being cancelled (when everyone knew they would) are symptomatic of a major management problem within the Administration.
Will that be fixed?
the OP of this thread cracks me up!
what a moron.
[quote]The website problems will get fixed
...after wasting billions of our tax dollars paying private contractors to create this mess and then to fix this mess. Private companies are getting very rich while providing a very shitty product to the taxpayers.
R7 - why are you blaming the mess on private corporations?
The project was managed by the Administration.
In simple terms if you are building a house and your contractor has the drywall put up before the electrician wires the house - do you blame the electrician or the contractor?
The mania to push out federal employees who had a vast storehouse of information of how the massive federal main frame based computer systems worked began in the Clinton/Gore regime. Those 2 geniuses strongly pushed for "outsourcing" all gov't computer work. This is the direct result of that...maximizing profit is the main concern of the companies that now do all federal IT work. This project like all other fed IT projects was declared a huge success by presidential appointees running it (like Sibelius) before it was completed...that is how it always works. Look how good we did! It's the federal version of the emporer's new clothes.
R7 - Nonsense.
There are lots of government functions which shouldn't be outsourced. The military, law enforcement, judicial system, education...
That's like suggesting the Feds should also make their own cars, construct their own buildings, grow their own food...
[quote]after wasting billions of our tax dollars
The website cost $634 million dollars to build, not billions of dollars. The Republican shut down of the government cost $24 billion. But hey, don't let a few facts stop you from being a big old drama queen. Its all Freepers have.
Actually the Shutdown didn't cost $24 billion. A major part of that figure was lost wages. The fed employees are getting those $$ reimbursed.
The Republicans are assholes but the Dems need to learn how to do math.
r9, I agree, but another problem was the low wages that the Feds paid their IT workers.
Oh, fuck off, R13. My buddy does IT as a Fed and makes 133k a year. Quit making shit up to support your outlandish claims.
Obamacare is a big failure, let's admit it and move on.
Middle management at the federal and corporate levels has been stripped out. It's why a lot of private and public initiatives are going wrong.
[quote] Obamacare is a big failure, let's admit it and move on
I'll admit just about anything as long as we keep implementing the ACA and moving towards universal health care.
You are right, OP! As a lifelong Democrat, I know for a fact the Republicans won this round. I'm very concerned about Democrat chances in 2016 because of this major screwup. Also, I'm really starting to believe that Obama is from Kenya.
It's also been an absolute boon in the ratings for Fox.
In some cases, Fox is pulling in twice the viewers of MSNBC and CNN COMBINED(day and night).
Anderson Cooper's 10:00 show has dropped to 280,000 viewers.
And Megyn Kelly is starting to triple the viewers of Maddow and is killing her in the 25-54 demographic.
i love r19!
So does megyn has higher rating than oreillys old time slot?
Here we go, again.
The website did not cost billions of dollars, as R11 correctly notes. Further, R9 appears to be engaging in a bit of revisionist history as outsourcing is as old as dirt. If you want to look to the great "push" to outsource, it squarely belongs to Reagan, who declared that "government isn't the solution, government is the problem" and then proved it by being one of the worst presidents in history. Hell, he outsourced being president to Regan, Baker and even Nancy and her astrologer.
And before R12 goes off insulting the mathematical capabilities of Democrats, he should look in the mirror. That $24 billion number includes the wages that were paid -- for staying home -- but the far greater portion of that loss is due to the damage to the overall economy when the government shut down, as the uncertainty caused regular folks to stop spending money. Whether it was a furloughed employee who didn't know wether of not he'd get back pay, or an hourly federal contractor who knew he wouldn't get paid, or just an average joe, everybody did the only appropriate thing and cut back, didn't go eat out, didn't buy discretionary items, and didn't make any commitments (like buy a house or rent an apartment) out of fear that the teatards were about to take us over the brink and cause a worldwide depression.
What's missing from this discussion is how this "scandal" is yet another creation of the Pubbies. The ACA is such a compromise to what they wanted from start to finish, it's really quite insulting that any one of them is criticizing the administration. It was a Pubbie plan from the Heritage foundation that brought the fight down to the individual mandate, which resulted in the requirement for exchanges and subsidies, and then the bow to the states setting up their own exchanges.
Of course, we can't underestimate the damage wrought by the most activist Supreme Court in the history of the nation pulling the plug on the only enforcement mechanism available to the Feds, paying for Medicaid expansion to incentivize the states to get going. Think back to as few as two or three months ago, when states were still making up their minds about setting up their own exchanges or letting the Feds run it. Once again, the decriers of "uncertainty" left the decisions until the last minute, which then threw the Feds for a loop when they suddenly had to deal with 36 different markets, thousands of insurance companies (as each insurance entity is actually a different company in each state), hundreds of thousands of laws and regulations, millions of customers, and interfacing the whole mess with disparate sources of income and employment verification data. The equivalent would be saying to Apple or Google that they had a couple of months to write the operating systems for their phones, but at the last minute requiring them to make the OS work on any phone, interface with every carrier, and oh yeah, they have no way to require that anyone use our long-established phone number system. But it should work perfectly the day it is introduced.
Once again, we just don't learn from our previous mistakes and apply this knowledge to our present circumstance, so the best we can do, as consumers and voters, is do it for TPTB. We saw the rollout of Medicare part D for the fiasco it was, but hung in there and fixed the problems and turned it into a good program. The same holds true for Medicare in general, as well as Social Security. It will take a little time for the problems to work through the system, but eventually, Obamacare will work and the people will love it just as they love other social safety net programs, and that's the crux of why Pubbies hate Obamacare; they saw that after Social Security and Medicare were created, the Democrats retained the majority for 40 years, and they fear the same for Obamacare. Not only the majority, but all of the changes that this majority will enact just as the democratic majority that resulted from these programs brought about progress for the middle class.
Yes r20, and just remember the millions of people who went insane when they tuned into CBS radio on October 30, 1938 and heard the reports that martians had landed in rural New Jersey.
[quote]eventually, Obamacare will work and the people will love it...
She beat O'Reilly this Wed to claim the number 1 cable spot.
I think she also beat him one time before.
People are getting kicked off and then getting Obamacare sticker shock and then getting mighty pissed.
[quote]The website cost $634 million dollars to build
Can someone explain to me how the website ended up costing this much?
So you really can't tell the difference between propaganda and reality, OP? Congratulations! You are officially an American mouthbreather who doesn't deserve reliable medical care. Enjoy your declining lifespan, increasing obesity and new Chinese overlords.
R25 ACA is exactly the same program they have in Massachusetts. And the people there love it. So unless you have some real evidence and not voices you hear in your head, you're the one who is delusional.
[quote]People are getting kicked off
You're a little late sweetheart. That meme was proven wrong five hours after it appeared. Those people did not have health insurance. They had junk insurance which didn't even cover hospital visits.
there is no obamacare sticker shock.
for the small minority who will have to increase their insurance payments a little bit (3%), it is because what they had previously was SHIT. and would have bankrupted them if they had gotten quite ill.
There is no getting around the fact that the website roll out was a disaster - and no one is claiming the development and implementation was well handled/managed. No one is also claiming that there were no obvious steps which could have been taken to prevent the problems which occurred.
So give it a rest - let the Administration fix it. If they can't we might as well turn the keys to the Senate, White House and Supreme Court over to the Republicans.
Obama lied about policies being cancelled. He knew it when he said it - and HHS policies guaranteed it would happen. I still support Obama and I don't think this is the worst thing he has done as President.
Not all the cancelled policies were crap. Actually many of them were designed to prevent what R31 predicts. They have high deductibles and co-pays. Don't provided maternity, mental health or preventative services. They do cover catastrophic events/illnesses. The reason being many people need minimum health care - and can afford the deductible. It makes more financial sense for them to have a bare bones catastrophic policy.
Unfortunately, thanks to the Supreme Court, the working poor are left out in the cold.
The ACA leaves a large portion of the working poor without insurance.
Neither the Republicans or the Democrats really seem to care.
Bullshit, r32. Please link to a reputable source that illustrates that "a large portion of the working poor are left without insurance thanks for the ACA."
I will wait.
[quote]Obamacare is a big failure, let's admit it and move on.
TO WHAT? The Republicans have never, ever, offered anything resembling a plan to cover uninsured Americans. Their whole goal these last 5 years has been to STOP anything this president does. Not to put anything in its place.
No jobs bill! No immigration reform! No healthcare for the uninsured! Because Obama!
R33 you refer to me R32 in your comment. Yet you aren't quoting me.
I didn't write ""a large portion of the working poor are left without insurance thanks for the ACA."
I wrote "Unfortunately, thanks to the Supreme Court, the working poor are left out in the cold."
The Supreme Court decision to overturn the mandatory expansion of Medicaid has left a large segment of the population without access to affordable insurance. They don't earn enough to qualify for the federal subsidies offered under ACA yet they earn too much to qualify for Medicaid.
After the Supreme Court Decision the ACA leaves them uncovered.
I've provided a link to the NY Times article on the subject.
I dare you to provide one credible link claiming this isn't true.
that NYT piece is from october 2nd. and has since been refined by others to illustrate that it is NOT a large number of people.
At the company I worked for, when we contracted for coding a program and it was unusable, the contractor didn't get paid. Guess things have changed.
R37 - don't see a source.
Are you saying the Medicaid expansion wasn't necessary?
Or are you saying the number of uninsured working poor just isn't large enough to worry about?
Are you claiming that the concerns hospitals have that this will leave them at financial risk are false? One of the pieces that made this work for hospitals required to provide care was the Medicaid expansion.
R41 - you do know that your link doesn't include people who aren't eligible for Medicaid and aren't eligible for Federal subsidies? In other words the working poor.
Also it confirms in nice language what critics have been saying. Your source claims Obama should have known better. Which is just a nice way of saying he lied.
Back to google for you.
Concern troll thread!
R42 - do you even read these links?
The issue isn't whether or not the insurance policies shouldn't have been cancelled. We all basically know the economics of ACA require healthy people to get full coverage whether they want it or not.
The point is Obama lied about no one's policies being cancelled - when he and his staff knew there would be some policies that would have to be cancelled.
R44 - Oh dear. I'm sure there is somewhere on DL where someone is insisting JG should come out of the closet. Or if not - Brad Pitt's use of deodorant. Maybe you would be happier there.
Are you the OP, r45?
I am the OP and not a freeper. I am just worried all this ACA fail news will make people forget the shutdown. Even the mainstream media is doing story after story of the failure of healthcare.gov. We live in the MTV generation - people live in 5 minute sound bites.
I want the tea party nut cases gone as bad as anyone else It just looks like this fiasco will stop that from happening.
Calm down, OP. The problems will get ironed out, and then the teatards will pull some stupid-ass shit in January to remind everyone just how much they want the US to fail. They've clearly decided that being the old, white, rich people, if they can't have the leadership, no one will, and they're ready to destroy the American way of life completely to do so. Ted Cruz has already said he would shut down the government again and replay the entire debt ceiling fiasco game. When the website is fixed and Obama begins reporting the real signup numbers, it's only going to piss the teatards off even more, and they'll be out for blood. Look at the pattern: they do the same thing over and over, somehow expecting the outcome to be different. But it never is. And they just get themselves wound up even tighter. Eventually, they'll implode... probably right after the Pubbies lose the House in 2014, and the teatards are relegated to insignificance.
R48 - is a great example of Democrats not caring about the millions of working poor who won't be able to get insurance under the ACA.
What are you talking about, R49? How do you get that I supposedly don't care about the working poor from what I said? And further, the working poor aren't the problem; it's people who are even poorer, who will fall into the gap created when so many red states declined additional medicaid dollars.
I think one of the few decent points of the ACA is the subsidies -- and not tax credits -- that the working poor are getting to buy insurance. If we're talking about someone who makes minimum wage, their insurance will essentially be free. Especially if they're over 35 and/or have dependents.
I'm not thrilled that the average Walmart employee is going to qualify for additional assistance, not because I don't think they deserve healthcare but because I object to the Waltons making billions of dollars and not giving basic healthcare coverage to nearly 2/3 of their employees.
R49 is a perfect example of someone who lets the perfect be the enemy of the good.
The ACA is an improvement. It is not universal, it is not universal single-payer. We'll get there eventually, eventually is not now.
If you're at all interested in reality, take a look at the history of Social Security in America. You will learn, if you wish to learn anything, that the way programs like this work is that they start smaller than they end. They evolve and expand to cover more people over time.
There was absolutely ZERO chance of passing universal coverage or universal single-payer. None. The President got the best deal he could get at the time. Once the program settles in, it will expand, just like Social Security did and just like Medicaid did.
In the meantime, there will be poor Americans who still have to rely on emergency room care and free clinics. It's awful, I wish it were different but I deal with reality and don't bash the ACA for not being perfect and universal right out of the gate.
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