Bill Clinton On Obama: 'He's Luckier Than A Dog With Two Dicks'
During the 2012 campaign, former President Bill Clinton was amazed that President Barack Obama seemed to be catching break after break, while GOP nominee Mitt Romney seemed to stumble constantly.
"He's luckier than a dog with two dicks," Clinton would often tell his pals, according to the new book "Double Down" by journalists Mark Halperin and John Heilemann.
Meanwhile, Clinton thought Romney was a good guy who had fallen into the wrong line of work.
"He really shouldn't be speaking to people in public," Clinton reportedly said.
The book also reports that Obama couldn't stomach spending too much time with Clinton, even though he realized he needed him for his reelection battle. From an account of the book by The New York Times:
When the two of them golfed together in September 2011, an effort aides hoped would bring them closer, they did not even finish 18 holes. Mr. Obama succinctly expressed his view of Mr. Clinton to an aide after coming off the course at Andrews Air Force Base. “Obama grimaced and replied, ‘I like him ... in doses,’ ” the authors write.
Earlier in the year, “Clinton held Obama captive in the presidential limo” outside a fund-raiser at the Waldorf-Astoria in New York, the authors write, grabbing Mr. Obama’s hand as he reached for the door. Instead of having a one-on-one meal together that night, as was planned, Mr. Obama, unable to “handle any more undiluted Clinton,” invited aides from both of their staffs to join the dinner and talked to them about their children, rather than talking about politics with his predecessor.
[quote] 'He's Luckier Than A Dog With Two Dicks'
I don't even know what that means.
R1, it means our former president who is without question one of the most brilliant men of our time (regardless of your political views) is still a dirty, backwoods hick underneath it all.
God love 'em even if I learned to dislike him for his vanity projects.
Obama needs to learn that sometimes you have to do something you don't like.
well, of course that would be Bill's definition of the best luck in the world....
Clinton is the guy Obama desperately tries not to be, "the first black president," with a southern drawl, an easy handshake, and a back-slappin' personality.
Obama wants to be seen as "the president," not "the black president."
I still find his comment to Ted Kennedy about Obama pretty repulsive.
I read the part about "small doses" somewhere before. And I can understand it. I keep reading that Clinton can be very charming, but it's all about him.
[quote]grabbing Mr. Obama’s hand as he reached for the door. Instead of having a one-on-one meal together that night, as was planned, Mr. Obama, unable to “handle any more undiluted Clinton,” invited aides from both of their staffs to join the dinner and talked to them about their children, rather than talking about politics with his predecessor.
This is hilarious. Imagine trying to dodge that overly familiar acquaintance who you can't avoid but run into all the time everywhere you go and looking for excuses why you can't hang out or catch a game together. I have some one like that I'm currently trying to shake off: Today, he shouted my name across the Whole Foods aisles.
Is weird that Barack doesn't seem to mind Hillary?
I'm sure Clinton is a narcissist and a major blowhard. Obama may be an ego maniac too but he really doesn't strike me as a narcissist.
I am sure that neither of the parties has any problem with any of this.
Clinton was nicer to Nixon (and used Nixon) than Obama was to Clinton. Doesn't Obama understand that he needs to befriend and use a former Democratic pres???
Are you trying to be funny, r10? Obama is the narcissist's narcissist.
Bill Clinton was very well-liked by both Republicans and Democrats while he was in Washington. The same can't be said for Obama, who reportedly is unpopular even among Democratic congressional members. He's seen as cold and aloof.
And which one has been more successful?
John Kerry is more Obama's type. Clinton and George W look like good ol' boys who'd get along.
"a dirty, backwoods hick underneath it all."
I think this calls for a "Mary!"
You don't know how men talk? Especially men of power? LBJ would kick your ASS, boy! And so would Nixon, JFK, and even Dubya, the priss!
I laughed and laughed, and felt sorry for Obama. I have a similar personality, and am not touchy-feely. Like Rhoda Penmark, I used to cringe when people grabbed my arm or bear-hugged me unexpectedly. I live in the deep south, however, so I had to get over it.
My sister is like Bill Clinton. I love her to absolute pieces, but she exhausts me utterly.
[quote] I still find his comment to Ted Kennedy about Obama pretty repulsive.
And that was?
Obama must be horrified every time he sees Clinton walk towards him: like "Oh, boy ... here he comes".
Clinton is an extrovert and somtimes extroverts exhausts introverts like Obama.
But it seems to me- when you have such a powerful job like Obama does- then you would learn how to get along with men you don't like.
That was to r2, BTW.
Obama knows he is nowhere Bill Clinton's IQ league (only Hillary is, frankly, speaking of politicians). He further knows he doesn't have the detailed and thorough grasp OF HIS OWN POLICIES as Bill "Steel-trap Mind" Clinton does. Obama is no raconteur, no hail-fellow-well-met, and seems in fact to shun bonhomie in general.
And Obama surely hates being given any advice.
This illustrates both men's unlikeable traits: Clinton is crude and self-absorbed, while Obama is snobbish and insufferable. I admire both men but this anecdote really illustrates the worst sides of both.
R19, Clinton made a comment about how a couple of years ago Obama would be "serving us coffee" -- referring to his medioric rise. White liberals love to think this was racism, that Obama would be serving because he's black.
[quote]I'm sure Clinton is a narcissist and a major blowhard
You HAVE to be a narcissist and a blowhard if you want to become POTUS
I know just how Obama feels. Clinton in small doses is about all anyone in his position, as POTUS, could stand. The fact is, Bill loves being a celebrity, and he never wanted to let go of the Presidency. Ever.
So, when you reach out to him to ask for his assistance with certain things, which Obama and his people surely did, because Obama is pragmatic to a fault, they got all the baggage that comes with support from Bill.
Clinton has an overwhelming need to give advice and suggestions and "share" what he would do, or did do, or WTF-ever. That's Bill. He'd run the Obama Presidency if he were allowed to. He is the proverbial "give him an inch, he'll take a mile" kind of guy. A little bit of Bill goes a long way.
Oh, and really, I hate Mark Halperin and don't trust anything he says. So, I really have no idea who they were talking to, to glean these tidbits.
[quote]John Kerry is more Obama's type. Clinton and George W look like good ol' boys who'd get along.
Exactly. I'm not a big fan of Clinton, but I love Kerry and Obama. I think John Kerry would have made an excellent president had he won in 2004.
Good point, R26..where did this gossip come from? Is it legitimate? Exaggerated by the authors?
Are there any other tidbits from the book on the internet?
Clinton was a policy aggressive president. Obama is disengaged.
[quote]Obama knows he is nowhere Bill Clinton's IQ league (only Hillary is, frankly, speaking of politicians).
Yes, that is why they were both able to outfox Obama in 2008 with HRC's brilliant campaign and....
Obama left Clinton to finish his press conferences on more that one occasion. He said that he had a party to go to during one of them. Obama was reelected in large part thanks to Clinton at the DNC.
Bill could sell you anything. Had they not fucked with the constitution, America would reelect him in a heartbeat.
The public at large loves Clinton because he's so accessible, and he's one of the most effective public speakers we've ever had. Reagan pales in comparison. But his larger than life personality can be off-putting at close quarters.
He's surrounded by retainers and friends who are fascinated with every pearl that drops out of his mouth. But I imagine there are CEOs, and other politicians, and society leaders who feel the same damned way Obama feels. If this is true.
What always fascinates me, is how Bill's personality overshadows his shortcomings as a president. He's the President who destroyed our manufacturing base with NAFTA, he signed the DOMA, and DADT, and he signed the Glass Steagall legislation that set the stage for our financial meltdown.
All Presidents fuck up at some point, but Bill's messes were every bit as egregious in their own way, as W's. The budget surplus Clinton left us with was a result of a bubble in a healthy economy that couldn't be sustained once NAFTA and Glass Steagall kicked into gear. Add two wars and the reckless mismanagement of the Bush era, and you have disaster.
I bet decades from now, historians will look at our downward spiral, and wed the Clinton/Bush years, as they now do the Reagan Bush years. Jimmy Carter never much cared for Clinton. It wasn't his personality that bothered Carter, it was his character.
The fact that Clinton "likes" Romney, thinks he's a nice guy, and says he's a guy who should never talk in public, really oversimplifies what Romney is.
The fact that Clinton's priority since leaving office is to ingratiate himself with the Carlyle Group, for whom he consults, and the Bushes and Romneys of this world, tells you where his aspirations led him and what he really values. He's our President as a Rock Star, with all that implies.
I'm always fascinated by things like this. Clinton is a retail politician. He shakes hands and kisses babies and appeals to Joe Every Guy. He's a smart man who loves the fight and messiness of politics.
Obama is a smart man who inspires people, but who doesn't necessarily like the kissing babies and shaking hands part of the job. He fakes it very well, but he would be much happier discussing policy and working out the mechanics and coming to workable SMART solutions. Obama thinks reasonable people should be able to come together in compromise.
They're two different types of men. Neither is right or wrong, it just the way things are. Not everyone has to like everybody.
[quote]"He really shouldn't be speaking to people in public," Clinton reportedly said.
Major ownage from r30. LOL.
[quote]Clinton made a comment about how a couple of years ago Obama would be "serving us coffee" -- referring to his medioric[sic] rise. White liberals love to think this was racism, that Obama would be serving because he's black.
Well, apparently Ted had a different interpretation since it was part of the reason he decided not to endorse Hilary... but I guess a 'white liberal with sanity' who wasn't a party or witness to it would certainly have more insight into the meaning than the person to whom it was actually said.
R17: That didn't deserve a "Mary!" because I actually meant it in an affectionate manner. It's why I wrote "God love 'em."
"He'd run the Obama Presidency if he were allowed to"
Um, no. Clinton doesn't run anything because he's too disorganized. Running it is not his thing.
[quote]What always fascinates me, is how Bill's personality overshadows his shortcomings as a president. He's the President who destroyed our manufacturing base with NAFTA, he signed the DOMA, and DADT, and he signed the Glass Steagall legislation that set the stage for our financial meltdown.
Exactly. He and Hillary give all of two shits about this country. They've got theirs, fuck the rest. Just a horrible, horrible legacy.
I love how you all talk about these people like you know them!
Clinton and Obama come from the same place, even their backgrounds can be described as similar, but they just have very different personalities and also the fact that it's inevitable they'd have different experiences growing up with one being white and the other black; the latter feeling like he could never really fit in with his background.
Politically, I think they pretty much believe in the same things, but like R33 said, they're just very different in the way they approach their beliefs.
Clinton was always a people person, Obama is not.
[quote]Bill Clinton was very well-liked by both Republicans and Democrats while he was in Washington.
HUH? I must have missed that part!
[quote]Bill Clinton was very well-liked by both Republicans and Democrats while he was in Washington.
think about it - you are the schools new quarterback and you are coming off 8 years of disastrous seasons. The half the team is looking to you to bring them to a winning season, half the team thinks you sucks and wants you gone - and You have to deal with the guy who graduated 8 years ago with a great winning record coming up to you and giving you advice.
[quote]FORMER Pres. Bill Clinton was very well-liked by both Republicans and Democrats while he was in Washington.
Fixed it for you.
"Obama grimaced and replied, ‘I like him ... in doses,’ ” the authors write."
I actually took one of Bill Clinton's small doses.
r41 - yeah....did people miss the whole whitewater morphing into monica lewinski scandal and impeachment? The republicans spent millions of tax payer dollars trying to evict Clinton and all they got was a cum stained dress and a failed impeachment. Talk about lucky.
Ugh. I love Clinton. Let his wife be president please, Hilary.
R5, imagine how much more shit would be piled on Obama if he was that informal in public. He has to be the Sidney Poitier of politicians. First one through the door always has to work harder to prove that they're as good as everyone else.
Well, talk about an an aspirational observation!
R47, your syntax is such a mess.
I haven't liked Hilary since she threw MoveOn.org under the bus. An organization specifically formed to defend the Clintons against all of the right-wing attacks they endured, starting with his impeachment.
At the first opportunity, she attacked them to score a few political points.
Talk about projection!
I've never understood the relationship between Clinton and Bush #41.
I like Clinton, in fact I love him. But NAFTA and GATT have absolutely destroyed the American middle class and is solely responsible for the widening gap between the 1% and the 99%. Both were put in place under his watch.
I give him a BIT of a pass on DADT, because it was a different time and he was trying to appease both sides. I give him NO pass on DOMA. Reprehensible and it was never necessary.
I wish we could fuse Clinton's charm, ability to get people to sway to his "side" of any debate, and speaking prowess, and Obama's pragmatism, inspiration ability, and self-reflection.
President Obama owes a huge debt to President Clinton. In BOTH of his presidential runs he needed and used the former president. Although President Clinton's health wasn't always the best, he hit the trail for Barack Obama and made a huge difference.
If this is true, and I don't trust Halperin as far as I could throw him, then President Obama needs to either work on his attitude or be quiet about it. It's incredibly bad form to bad mouth someone who has done so much for him. Besides, for shrewd and brilliant political advice - there is no one better than Bill Clinton.
I don't know who the moron is who thinks that Republicans loved Bill Clinton when he was president. You're either very young or completely out of your mind. This "Oh remember when Bill Clinton was president and we were all besties" routine is nothing but ragtime. Total bullshit.
They're all crooks.
[quote] I've never understood the relationship between Clinton and Bush #41.
It's been said that Clinton considers #41 the father he never had and #41 considers Clinton the son his have never been.
Clinton maintained unexpected relationships with his Republican predecessors, although two were gone pretty quickly (Nixon to death, Reagan to Alzheimer's).
Ford (much like his friend Carter) had very big problems with Clinton's character. In the book "Write it when I'm Dead," Ford is very open about his distaste for Clinton's womanizing.
Bipartisanship went downhill the second that ugly, fat, parade balloon-headed douchebag Gingrich was elected speaker; that's the moment compromise between parties went to shit.
The ugly fuck threw a tantrum and shutdown the govt because he didn't get a seat on AF1. This is the mentality, the brain trust of the right. A bunch of petulant little shits who are perpetually in their "terrible twos" when they don't get everything they want.
Dubya is his mother's boy - that's why he got to see "the jar."
Jeb is more of his father's son.
[quote]All Presidents fuck up at some point, but Bill's messes were every bit as egregious in their own way, as W's.
R32, god only knows how you get through a day without soiling yourself or walking into traffic. You take today's prize for breathtaking ignorance.
r54 get off your high horse bitch... Although what Obama said about liking Clinton in small doses wasnt exactly high praise, it surely wasnt bad mouthing the guy nor speaking ill of him.
President Obama was speaking ill of him - hence the coverage.
And it's MR. Bitch to you, cunt.
Attacking me certainly demonstrates a lot about you, R59. How about presenting your arguments. Refute my assertions. Instead of mocking me, tell me what you think. I'd welcome a legitimate debate, if you have the capacity, instead of these trollish attacks.
[quote]Clinton maintained unexpected relationships with his Republican predecessors, although two were gone pretty quickly (Nixon to death, Reagan to Alzheimer's).
Because Clinton is basically a Republican.
I've always thought him a trashy pig, so a comment like that is about what I'd expect.
[quote]I love how you all talk about these people like you know them!
I actually do know Bill Clinton. I'm from Little Rock and was around him constantly in the 80s and early 90s until he left for Washington. My mom worked in state government, and he hit on her a couple of times until he got the message that his advances were not welcome.
I can confirm that he is by far the most charismatic, magnetic and intelligent person you will have ever met. He eats and breathes policy. He swears like a sailor. He's not as religious as he had to pretend to be in office. And he is exhausting.
R65, I think "exhausting" is a great word to describe him. I can imagine how obnoxious he could be and why Obama would say, "I like him... in doses." I've known people I had to "mentally prepare" before being in contact with them.
I like Clinton but he thinks he's better than Obama. Obamas lucky huh, well Bob Dole wasn't exactly a great campaigner.
Which of these two men got a majority of the voters to vote for him?
[quote]You don't know how men talk? Especially men of power?
So true. At JFK's big birthday celebration, Marilyn Monroe came out to sing Happy Birthday in a sheer, flesh-toned beaded dress that she had to be sewn into.
(Jackie wasn't there. She'd gone to Virginia to go riding after hearing who was performing.)
JFK turned to the friend next to him and said, "There's nothing but tits and pussy underneath that dress."
[quote]But NAFTA and GATT have absolutely destroyed the American middle class and is solely responsible for the widening gap between the 1% and the 99%.
Reaganomics planted the seeds, the Bush tax cuts had a huge impact and GATT was first introduced in 1947.
Could you explain your views a bit more?
The 1994 Round of GATT was when free trade was established, allowing American corporations to move factories out of the States and into third world countries without any financial penalty. Cheap labor has been worth it's weight in gold, at the cost of the American middle class. I think many of were duped into thinking it would "bring the world together", but all it did was cause "factory flight".
R66, I have little doubt and certainly hope so. Hillary Rodham (as we knew her before his presidential run) is the real deal.
[quote]...he thinks he's better than Obama.
Because he is.
R54 nailed it.
I can't believe so many of you don't know this.
If Pres. Obama thinks Clinton is bad, it's a good thing he's too young to have known Lyndon Johnson.
LBJ was destoyed by Vietnam. But, Johnson and Obama (at this point at five years) domestically: LBJ accomplished far, far more with Congress.
"Bill Clinton was very well-liked by both Republicans and Democrats while he was in Washington."
Yet, they impeached him.
I love Michelle as a person, but I feel she's been a major disappointment as FL. The only thing she's done is to tell kids to eat healthy. So many missed opportunities as the first black FL.
I hate to say it, but I think she's been less effective in her role than Laura was.
Here's what I think: someone like Bill Clinton was absolutely in love with how adored he was by blacks. The whole "first black president" thing, playing the saxophone, etc. Now, someone comes along who actually IS the first black (or at least partly black) president, and it makes him doubt himself and his legacy among blacks. I don't believe Bill and Hillary Clinton are racists, never have, but they are not above using their white privilege and stoking the fears of true racists to get what they want. The behavior during the runup to the 2008 party nomination proved that.
Both Obama and Clinton resorted to desperate tactics during 2008.
The bigger issue allegedly coming out in this book is that Obama considered dumping Biden in 2012, out of fear that he was dragging him down. Interesting.
This book is also going to reveal that after Joe Biden endorsed marriage equality, which the administration did NOT know that he was going to do, Biden was shut out of campaign strategy meetings.
This of course proves FALSE the claims of delusional Obama fangirls around here who claim that Obama was the real leader on the issue, that he "sent" Biden out to give the admins position on it, etc etc.
The big dog speaks.
I wonder what Janet Jackson has to say about all of this. Methinks she's been to the White House before.
There was a pretty big story years ago in Vanity Fair, or some similar magazine, where the central idea was how Clinton was constantly in search of people to talk to. He almost didn't care who they were, he needed an audience. It could be people in coffee shop to a heads of state and he would exhaust them all.
People who you would expect to be kissing his ass were avoiding him even though they liked him. His handlers were trying to help but Bill is a force who will not be stopped. Even Hillary's campaign had to muzzle him.
I'm sure even Bill's closest friends would not be surprised by or disagree with Obama's remark.
I worked pretty closely for him in the White House for several years, and "exhausting" is the word. He could have had a very successful presidency but pissed it away because he couldn't control his appetites. He still can't. Look how he hijacked his wife's campaign during the 2008 South Carolina primary. I'm surprised that since he left office he hasn't ended up in a tabloid scandal. He's one of the smartest, most politically intuitive people I've known, but also one of the most spoiled and self-indulgent, with probably the quickest and most terrifying temper. He literally turns purple. I wish Democratic muckety-mucks wouldn't criticize one another, but I sympathize with President Obama and think he has the right idea: small doses far apart.
Leo doesn't want to cede the floor to anyone, especially another Leo.
[quote]I love Michelle as a person, but I feel she's been a major disappointment as FL. The only thing she's done is to tell kids to eat healthy. So many missed opportunities as the first black FL.
She does a lot of low profile work with military families along with Jill Biden that she's largely uncredited for. If her time weren't taken up by this (and it is a political consideration), she'd devote time to other causes, such as education which really seems very near to her heart. Even then, she'd have to be careful as Laura Bush promoted literacy.
Clinton's killer speech at the DNC went a long way toward ensuring Obama's re-election. He explained every possible issue in such a way that intellectuals and prolos could understand them intimately.
At the time, Obama was obviously terribly grateful, but it must be galling for somebody with Obama's ego to realize a man he doesn't like did a better job than he did at making his policies acceptable to the unwashed masses.
I've met Clinton a couple of times too. He has an electric presence, enormous charisma and is much better looking in person than in photos (OK, I'm talking 10 years ago). But a former colleague's sister worked for Hillary and she said Hillary was adorable, very warm and funny, always joking around whereas Bill is grumpy and has a bad temper. Bill's great in public and probably a pain in private and Hillary's the opposite.
My rustic hillbilly speak is a little rusty, but as I recall, saying "he's as lucky as a dog with two dicks" is a compliment, albeit a backhanded one, and I don't think anyone can deny that Obama got very lucky indeed running against a mannequin like Romney.
Most of the rest of it sounds like manufactured drama to me. Let's be honest, it's not in any of their interests to be too closely associated with each other at this point. Hillary needs to distance herself from Obama for the campaign, Bill needs to keep some distance so he can massage his fat cat donors into writing big checks to both the campaign and his charity, and the last thing Obama needs is to go down in history as the man who used the Clinton's as a crutch.
Bill Clinton was undoubtedly Obama's most effective surrogate in 2012, but damn, those two clearly fucking hate each other.
Apples, kumuqats, r30.
Ugh, I've never trusted Bill and Hill.
[quote]But a former colleague's sister worked for Hillary and she said Hillary was adorable, very warm and funny, always joking around whereas Bill is grumpy and has a bad temper. Bill's great in public and probably a pain in private and Hillary's the opposite.
That's interesting and good to hear about Hillary. Is this during her Senate or State Dept. days? Just about the only descriptions I'm aware of about Hillary's private behavior came from George Stephanapolous' book. She was described as being just as prone to explosive fits as her husband was. IIRC, GS said she could be scathing with people and cursed like a sailor, too. It's been nearly 15 years since I read it. I believe most of it centered on her work then for health care reform. It must not have been a pleasant time for her, in general.
Isn't there a story/rumor that she called GS a "little queen" or is that Datalounge lore?
Don't get it. Wouldn't a dog's second dick get crushed while he was humping another dog? Unless of course the second dick was elsewhere on his body so he could hump 2 at a time.
Clinton got into enough trouble with one dick. You wouldn't think he'd be envious of someone having 2.
My dad and stepmom attended an event at which Bill spoke, and they said he was extremely talkative...so much so his handlers seemed to have a hard time keeping him focused/on-schedule. Of course, he gave an amazing speech and everyone loved him...he also supposedly has really long fingers.
Scorpio here, too, r85 Sally, and that's why I like and understand this rascal!
[quote]he's as lucky as a dog with two dicks" is a compliment, albeit a backhanded one, and I don't think anyone can deny that Obama got very lucky indeed running against a mannequin like Romney.
Was Clinton referring to the race against Romney? I thought he was referring to a pretty meteoric rise in Illinois politics and good fortune that Jack Ryan the Republican front-runner got embroiled in a scandal.
He was mentored by Emil Jones and somehow managed to sidestep a lot of the shitty Chicago politics. Not only was he supremely lucky that Ryan dropped out but that one of his Democratic opponents, millionaire Blair Hull, had a problem with gambling and addictions. His closest Democratic opponent Dan Heinz was regarded as being too close to Chicago machine politics, which Obama managed to avoid nicely (for the most part).
And of course, his Senate opponent was crazy carpetbagger Alan Keyes.
Dogs do other things, too, r93.
Aren't dog dicks retractable like donkey dicks? One could be in use while the other is safely tucked away waiting for its turn.
If you READ these authors' last book (Game Change) and the full excerpt at the link, you'd all know the Obama-Clintons bond is deeper and more complex than the pull quote here. Bill makes a lot of mistakes, says a lot of dumb shit, but he is also an absolutely brilliant politician. Obama can sometimes be standoffish, but he's equally brilliant in a different way. And he debated making Hillary veep for last year.
It also says Obama and Bill Clinton's relationship strengthened again last year after they huddled and strategized during the Romney debates.
R99 - I think you are right.
Clinton = high-functioning charismatic sociopath
[quote] Bill's great in public and probably a pain in private and Hillary's the opposite.
I have read this comparison made also of Bill and Al Gore.
[quote] Bill Clinton was very well-liked by both Republicans and Democrats while he was in Washington. The same can't be said for Obama, who reportedly is unpopular even among Democratic congressional members. He's seen as cold and aloof.
Today's Times has an article in which it's pointed out that he also really has no friends among other world leaders.
A dog can lick his OWN dick(s), you dumb fucks.
Bill Clinton was HATED in Washington while in office.
A good friend worked for Hillary when she was a senator and he adored her.
Hillary has ice water in her veins. If she were ever elected Pres she would immediately turn over the USA to the UN. Bill is far more likable than Hillary. Bill forgives and Hillary never forgets.
But even the fellow who hosts the Five on Fox said Obama does not get anything because his ego is so strong; it is impenetrable.
R96 AND Bill Clinton :
A lot of experienced politicians screw up when their opponents self-destruct or have other baggage. It is not a given that the person will win. It takes native talent and learned skill to first uncover, then take advantage of, the opposition's weaknesses. Obama is very good at subtly magnifying his opponents' weaknesses, without coming off as a complete dick himself. That is not "luck."
Jack Ryan would have been one of dozens of freaks in the Congress. Lots of sitting pols have worse issues, and still won.
r107's anti-UN nuttery was tired in 1964.
[quote]Hillary has ice water in her veins.
[quote]Hillary never forgets.
[quote]Bill is far more likable than Hillary. Bill forgives
[quote]Obama does not get anything because his ego is so strong; it is impenetrable.
Bill has several planets in social butterfly Libra, though. Obama has none there.
Ahh yes, the dick lick. I'd forgotten about that R104.
R103, what was the article? I looked for it but couldn't find it.
That's a lie if you're talking about Obama. He and the king of Jordan are very close. He's also close to the Brits, and the Russian. That's right. He and Putin aren't as estranged as it may appear. The fact is, with Biden & Kerry in place, our foreign policy will get a lot clearer and stronger.
Truth is, Hilary was not a great SoS. She was a celebrity, and a lot of the foreign leaders were flattered, but honestly she spent a lot of time, too much time in fact, in developing nations, talking to dissidents and talking about womens' rights, which was fine, but it didn't get the job done at the level it needed to be done.
R112, he was talking about Bill Clinton.
This thread is exactly why I continue to subscribe to the Datalounge. You guys and gals are the best.
David Maraniss said that Clinton loves to be needed. That is an astute, and dead-on accurate assessment of the deeply talented, gifted Bill Clinton; a man whose flaws and appetites match his assets.
I adore both the Clintons and the Obamas.
At times all three of them, the Clintons and the POTUS have deeply disappoiinted me, however, in my eyes, Michelle can do no wrong.
[quote]At times all three of them, the Clintons and the POTUS have deeply disappoiinted me, however, in my eyes, Michelle can do no wrong.
Of the three of them, I am sure I would enjoy spending time with her the most.
Sorry Della, you are lacking in critical faculties. The Clintons sold us out countless times. At least in Obama's case, you can see the continual threat he's under. But the Clintons eagerly embraced the re-feudalization of the world.
I feel like Obama stepped into a presidency that was rigged from the start. Probably the worst since FDR. But FDR had a great deal of power and time to try out various strategies with support from congress and the population.
Obama had the collapsing economy, 2 wars, huge dept, bo taxes coming in, unrest in the middle east... with an almost supper majority for a few weeks.
Yet he has been cock blocked from the start when the little power cabal on the right had a meeting on the day on his inauguration to plan the strategy of 100% obstruction of every bill put before them, whether they agreed with it or not. Filibusters gone wild. Then Citizens United brought us the 2010 republican sweep and gerrymandering which took away his 2012 house majority.
Clinton had his fights with congress but they were not nearly as insane as the circus of a republican party today. He ruled over a time of relative peace and economic growth without the right wing 24/7 "News" takeover on cable and radio.
There are things Obama has done that I am not happy about. I think the younger version of himself would not be happy about those things either. I would have like to see what he could have done without the filibuster and a little room to run.
The common thread between the two is that both were sidetracked from doing some good thing by sideshows on the right. Clinton with the impeachment and the blow job hearings. Obama with the never ending obstruction of EVERYTHING.
Sometime I wish they could have had the power of a king for a few years to just get us back on track while we had smart people with vision in office. Of the two of them, Obama has faced 10 times the challenges Clinton had to yet he will be remembered as the better president because the economy.
People hated Bill Clinton, but a whole new political group didn't spring up because of his election. In spite of their protests, the Tea Party was a direct off shoot of Obama's election. They say that it didn't have anything to do with, race and was about government spending... yet they said nothing while W drove the country into new bankruptcy. I don't care how many moderate republicans they primary, I remember those signs from those Tea Party rallies.
Republicans hated the Clintons probably more than they hate Obama because they are more frightened of the Clintons. At least they haven't tried to impeach Obama.
During the primaries I supported Hillary and a friend supported Obama because, said she, she just couldn't stand the idea of having to put up with 8 years of the GOP constantly trashing Hillary. She thought Obama would be a fresh start and the GOP didn't have anything against him so the national dialogue would be more civilized.
R96 Obama got lucky in that Jack Ryan's sealed divorce records (from Kerri "7 of 9" Ryan) were obtained by Chicago papers *cough* David Axelrod *cough* and set off a sex scandal.
Obama was also lucky in that Carol Moseley Braun's corruption cost her re- election, and that Republican pork politics led Peter Fitzgerald not to run for the IL Senate seat Obama took.
Clinton ain't wrong about Obama's lucky life, from prep school to White House.
R118 OTOH, Clinton was keen to encourage a proto Tea Party when H! Ross Perot, from his appearances on Larry King's program, launched his Reform Party vanity project. 20 million votes that would have mostly broken for Bush 41. Clinton sure did love and encourage the early Tea Partiers.
Who espoused the same rhetoric in 1992 as they did in 2009. Massive Keynesian government spending, the stimulus, the effort to change the health care system - the idea that the opposition to Obama/Pelosi/Reed was fueled by racism might be useful politically, but it doesn't bear up.
These are the people that Perot quit underwriting when he got pissed, the ones that ran Jesse Ventura for governor. They weren't an ad hoc racist reaction to a Kenyan-American president.
For what he faced, Obama's gotten a hell of a lot done. He's shown willingness to change course, to listen, but he's stood by the things he feels strongly about. He's made real changes despite an impossible Congress. And while far left liberals will torch him for Obamacare, it is a step in the right direction that, as the baby boomers continue to die out, will lead us to universal health care. And he knows that, even if the hardcore don't.
I am a diehard liberal myself, and I came of age in the heated blogosphere that was born in the Dubya years. We raged because we had nothing else, no other voice to speak out against what was happening. But when it was over, I found that a lot of those people kept on just raging for the sake of rage - a lot of people ate their own, turned on friendly politicians who have the left's ideals at heart, for the slightest thing. Anything less than the purest, most-impossible-to-pass ideology was considered treachery. I grew up near the Beltway with parents who worked down there - I used to bore them to tears with my rants about the "ineffectual" Dem Congress of the Bush years - and I know now that actually making the sausage of governing vs. honoring abstract ideology are two different things.
And as a dumb white guy I also have to say that I think part of it is a kind of unconscious racism from a lot of privileged people. Too often on sites like Daily Kos or whatever, all I see are fading amateur online pundits who made their speechifying bones in the BushCo years, ranting on about how "Barry" doesn't understand what needs to be done by strong principled Internet tough guys, and needs to be "taught" by the liberal chattering class of the Internet how to be President. After all, they were on the "rec list" on a shared blog shit in the Bush years while he was busy just being a Senator. There's a condescending element, always. They'd never talk about a longtime Democrat like Bill or Hillary that way, and I love Bill and Hillary - they never spoke of Kerry, or Gore or Edwards that way either (and some of them still excuse Edwards' behavior).
I think there's room in the world for all three, Barack, Bill and Hillary. We need them all, for different reasons in different ways. They're indispensable to keep the right going down their path to temporary extinction.
R122, is there anyone who could criticize Obama without you calling them a racist? Maybe Michelle perhaps, she could scold him for leaving the seat up. Guess that's about it. Oh well, that's fair.
[quote]This thread is exactly why I continue to subscribe to the Datalounge. You guys and gals are the best.
Wow. I was thinking the exact opposite.
R122, the blogosphere adored Obama in 2007/2008. He could do no wrong. There were very few leftwing blogs where you could express support for Hillary and/or criticism of Obama. I don't read blogs much anymore but it doesn't surprise me that many of these same people have turned on him. There was a cultlike aspect to many Obama supporters during his campaign and of course once he won and actually had to govern, many of his most fervent supporters - those who thought he was sooo much more liberal than Hillary - were bound to be disappointed.
When I was in line to vote in 2008, I overheard the couple behind me saying to their kid, "Tomorrow we're going to wake up to a whole new world!" I wonder what they're thinking now.
I don't think Obama's Presidency has been a failure. I just wish that he'd struck while the iron was hot, in the beginning of his first term, and not wasted time trying to appease Republicans.
[R122}: I do not believe that many experienced politicans in the Democratic Party think privately that President Obama has "gotten a hell of a lot done."
Yes, he's stuck with a very difficult Congress, ever since the Republicans took the House in the 2010 election. But other presidents found ways around that, even people with little direct political experience like Eisenhower.
r126 No one in history has had to deal with a congress as crazy and willing to throw America under the bus as the present one. The congress passes nothing the senate filibusters everything.
This had never happened before and the media should not act like it's business as usual.
They should shame them. The rest of the world's media reports it clear as day but our news tries to be "balanced" st the expense of truth.
Kindly knock it the fuck off, r123.
r122, in his thoughtful post, didn't write that ALL criticism is based on race. He or she observes an actual, ugly reality- that part of disliking of Obama is based upon bigotry. It is.
Frankly, your knee-jerk defensiveness speaks volumes. Their is a black man in charge at the White House- get over it.
[quote] Bill Clinton was very well-liked by both Republicans and Democrats while he was in Washington. The same can't be said for Obama, who reportedly is unpopular even among Democratic congressional members. He's seen as cold and aloof.
[quote] Obama must be horrified every time he sees Clinton walk towards him: like "Oh, boy ... here he comes"
Clinton and Bush are from Arkansas and Texas, both born in 1947. Of course they'd relate to each other.
Obama is a biracial intellectual with an African father who has no religious affiliation, born and raised on an island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean as well as in the country of Indonesia.
THINK ABOUT IT. Obama is like no other President in US history, and the fact that he IS President, is a marvel in and of itself.
Of course he looks at blowhard Clinton, as you would the uncle who won't stop talking at Thanksgiving dinner, and you try desperately to escape from.
Obama is different. VERY different. Some may call it aloof, but in my estimation, he just doesn't suffer fools.
That's really what this is about.
I'm attending an event next week in which Mark Halperin and John Heilemann will be discussing "Double Down." Their books are criticized for being gossipy and full of anonymous sources, but I don't think it takes away from the overall truthfulness of what they report.
He doesn't suffer fools, but he spent a great deal of time trying to placate them. The Republican machine was already in full effect before he took office, so I never understood why people screamed hysterics because "they refused to cooperate with him!" A lot of people predicted that back in 2008, but were drowned out. You didn't get the memo when Pelosi tucked her tail in after 2006? It was kind of naïve to think that everyone was going to join hands and work after the previous eight years.
That being said, I think Obama has done good. Those first two years were incredibly rocky (and his administration is partly to blame for that, accept it), but he has gotten much stronger. I am disappointed to hear that Biden's same sex marriage comment was not a part of some pre-planned strategy, but simply old Joe rattling off once again. Helped us out a lot, but doesn't say much about the Obama administration taking initiative.
And while many Republicans dislike Obama because he's black, democrats finding fault with him is not based on bigotry. If you fail to understand that, you have no business wasting everyone's time posting here.
r129, not to nitpick, but they were both born in the summer of 1946. Hillary was born in Illinois in 1947.
I'd say dude who had an affair in the WH, got caught, lied, got impeached, stayed Pres and is still super popular is the lucky one.
Always with black people it's "luck" and not skill or intelligence, both of which President Obama possesses in abundance.
Let me guess, R133, you're white, yes?
[quote] a lot of people ate their own, turned on friendly politicians who have the left's ideals at heart, for the slightest thing. Anything less than the purest, most-impossible-to-pass ideology was considered treachery.
Yeah, that's what happened to Hillary and Bill at the screaming, naive hands of Obama's fanboys and fangirls. You all were so convinced that Obama was such a rockstar, everyone would want to kiss his ring, hold hands and sing kumbaya if only the Clintons would get out of the way and let him be president.
Now you see how that turned out.
r128 and r129 are just vomit-worthy posts. I see some of you are STILL stuck in kumbaya cult land that r125 speaks of, accurately.
R136 = welcome back, Hillbot.
"and Obama's pragmatism"
Thank you R53.
Pragmatic is always the word that comes to my mind when I observe this President. Not flashy, not naturally charming and he suffers in the no-win war games the Conservatives have waged.
Like in the move, the only way to win is not to play.
Forgot to add that I believe he will mature into a past-President role much like Clinton, with the heart of Carter.
[quote]Clinton's killer speech at the DNC went a long way toward ensuring Obama's re-election. He explained every possible issue in such a way that intellectuals and prolos could understand them intimately.
Oh please, as if anyone sat and listened to that whole speech. Anyone who was on the fence in 2012 was too fucking stupid to understand what Clinton was saying anyway.
Most of them are sociopaths, R103. I think it speaks to Obama's character that he isn't all buddy buddy with other politicians.
[quote]If she were ever elected Pres she would immediately turn over the USA to the UN.
Where the fuck do you paranoid "New World Order" types get this bullshit!? How exactly would one even DO such a thing, and what precisely has Hillary Clinton ever said or done that tells you this?; Fucking weirdos!
Not that they're buddies, but I've gotten the impression that Obama gets along very well with David Cameron. And he was comfortable enough with former French President Sarkozy to echo that Netanyahu's a pain in the ass (while noting that he has to deal with him more often).
Are world leaders really "friends?" In what sense? It would seem current world leaders really shouldn't be friends (how we normals understand the word) lest they lose objectivity or fail to protect or advance national interests. Once retired, I can see former leaders maintaining some type of contact.
This entire discussion is stupid, especially from the dumb cunts on the left. We expect irrational bullshit from the right - you people should know better but don't.
Clinton - good president, had a few faults, still doing great work and is as sharp as ever.
Obama - good president, has a few faults, still doing great work and is as sharp as ever.
Hillary, good SoS, has a few faults, still doing great work and is as sharp as ever. She will be the first female president of the United States and it's about fucking time.
[quote]Are world leaders really "friends?" In what sense?
They are when people want to use the idea that EVERYONE is friends but Obama to pile one more thing on him.
I'm so blessed to be part of a site of such profound insights into the minds of the great.
R1244=criminal with no concern for the country. I think probably the target of the programmers was to eliminate the threat Sebelius posed to the Clinton candidacy.
Sort of OT, but I wonder if the authors of Double Down have any inside dish on Obama's lackluster performance in the debate with Romney in Denver.
Supposedly, after the first debate, and during preparation for the second debate, Obama got frustrated and said something along the lines of, "I can't do this."
[quote]Are world leaders really "friends?" In what sense?
There seemed to be a genuine affection between him and Dmitry Medvedev. But he doesn't seem to like other European leaders.
Richard Nixon: I am not a crook.
George H. W. Bush: Read my lips: no new taxes.
Bill Clinton: I did not have sexual relations with that woman.
Barack Obama has, so far, managed to avoid uttering words that would symbolise a presidency's lowest moments and failures. He may have been caught calling Kanye West a "jackass"; called the Boston Police "stupid" for arresting his friend; and been caught on a live mic having a dig at Bibi Netyanahu; but all were all tame
For R154: "If you like your plan you can keep it."
Still lame r154. No ring.
Those "dumb cunts on the left" were right about everything. Clinton was a weakling, a coward, and a fraud. He was a poor president and his wife is a crypto-Republican.
So far, Obama is too right-wing for my tastes however, he carries himself with dignity and taste.
He outclasses Bill Clinton in every regard. The Clintons are trash.