Unless the person is actively and directly engaged in demonizing gay people or working to deny them civil rights, then no. I don't think forcing a person out of the closet is cool. Its really none of our business what strangers chose to do with their life.
Who said it was important?
Blah blah blah R1. Grow a pair. Nobody is above criticism.
[quote]Nobody is above criticism.
1 - I never said otherwise. Try reading the words that are there and not the ones you imagine are there.
2 - It is interesting to suggest that outing a person is the same as criticism. If someone you knew told another person you are gay, that's the same as criticizing you?
You mean "telling the truth". There's no such thing as OUTING. That's a cutesy word used to validate the choice to live a lie. No one has a right to live a double life. If you do, you run the risk of someone telling the truth. The ONLY people entitled to be protected are kids and teens, who are in their parents' care. No one else has a right to expect people to enable their lies. PERIOD.
r4 = Kkkloset kaween!
First of all, he works for a right-wing VIRULENTLY homophobic station.
THEN, no one has a right to be protected from their choice to live a double life. If you live your life as a lie, you run the risk of having someone tell the truth.
So if I got to know you, R5, and you realized I was gay and wasn't telling people, what would you do? Tell my employer? My family?
R5 you out your gay friend.
he works in homophobic place and his family is homophobic.
he gets ''fired''-bullied out of a job.
he has no savings and can't find another job.
his family don't take him in.
he commits suicide.
do you think there is something wrong with outing a gay man?
logic is fun.
R5, just to clarify...if a person chooses not to publicly state that they are gay, ins't it YOUR interpretation that they are living a lie? Because it's entirely likely that the non-public person doesn't think that they're living a lie.
Either shut down the celebrity gossip industry entirely or apply it fairly across the celebrity spectrum.
[quote]First of all, he works for a right-wing VIRULENTLY homophobic station.
Which is why I said " actively and directly engaged in demonizing gay people or working to deny them civil rights". If Smith has done so, then I will stand corrected. So far as I can tell, he never has. By your logic, Rachel Maddow is responsible for anti gay violence in Russia because MSNBC's parent company, GE, is a sponsor of the Sochi Olympics.
Groupthink - the very concept of "being in the closet" - you conform to a majority insistent on defining you if you accept this Victorian concept (the closet being a public bathroom, or water closet, not a wardrobe).
If you don't live as the self-selected arbiters think you should, you will have your character assassinated, be judged. ridiculed, tarred&feathered, bullied, in order to get you to conform, accept yhe groupthink, and be an obedient sheep to a leadership you have no part in selecting.
You'll be a double minority, harassed by the "larger" minority in the very way it excoriates the majority for acting upon it.
You're the non-conforming nail, and the "closet case!" are the hammer of orthodoxy.
The enforcers of Cheria law, if you will.
"I don't think forcing a person out of the closet is cool."
There's no such thing as "forcing" someone out. You can print that someone is gay, but that doesn't mean they will come out. Look at Larry Craig. He was arrested for bathroom cruising but denied being gay or bi. John Travolta and Queen Latifah have both been photographed kissing same sex partners but they are still closeted.
I don't understand why it's wrong to write that Shep has a boyfriend. If the media printed that he had a girlfriend, no one would see anything wrong with that, nor would they see it as some sort of gross invasion of privacy. We can openly talk about straight stars, but homosexuality is still treated like a dirty secret in 2013. I think the media should treat gay stars the same way they treat straight stars.
r9, comparing celebrities to average joes doesn't work. When celebrities put themselves in the spotlight they know their private life is fair game.
[quote]The 49-year-old anchor allegedly engaged in a year-long courtship with an attractive 26-year-old production assistant who worked under him
Oh, the jokes, they just write themselves ...
Again, STFU. It's YOUR choice to live a double life that pouts you AT RISK. You're the one putting yourself in that position, not anyone else. Amazing how you've absolved yourself of responsibility for the potential consequences of your own dysfunctional choices.
So because a Jewish Nazi doesn't believe In killing Jews, that somehow makes his involvement in the party less hypocritical?
No one is outing Shep. People are speaking the TRUTH about his sexuality and pointing out the hypocrisy of a gay man working for a mouth piece of a political party and network that is virulently anti-gay. Out all Republican shit stains till they demand THEIR party to cut the gay bashing.
"Its really none of our business what strangers chose to do with their life."
But of course it's our business which straight stars are fucking each other. If Gawker can write about that why the hell can't they say that a gay person is gay?
"ridiculed, tarred&feathered, bullied, in order to get you to conform, accept yhe groupthink, and be an obedient sheep to a leadership you have no part in selecting."
Printing that a person is gay is NOT bullying. How did they bully Shep? By printing that he has a young, handsome boyfriend?
"you conform to a majority insistent on defining you if you accept this Victorian concept (the closet being a public bathroom, or water closet, not a wardrobe)."
The Victorians are the ones who think that homosexuality should be treated like a taboo
See R5, R6, for instance. It's the same tension you see in the debate re: the individual vs the collective, personal liberty vs "the greater good", the private vs the state.
[quote]But of course it's our business which straight stars are fucking each other.
No. Its not.
OP, why is trying to spring an innocent man from prison so important?
R18, see R5,R6
Oh, please, r9-as if your little scenario really applies to Shepard Smith, who is the actual subject of the OP. Just because it might be wrong to out somebody under some circumstances doesn't mean it's always wrong to out anybody under any circumstances.
Further, I'd suggest that if you are an adult and your life is so very precarious and surrounded by homophobes that being outed as gay would ruin you in every way, the onus is on you not to engage in homosexual behavior, and thus run the risk of being outed and having your whole life destroyed, until such time as you've at least managed to find a job that you can't lose for being gay and/or put aside some money to keep yourself afloat for a while should you lose your job.
It's not the 1950s, when gay Americans had no protections anywhere and practically every gay person's life would be ruined if he were outed. Gays have options now, and given the likelihood that engaging in same-sex
relations will get you outed sooner or later, you do have some responsibility to take care of yourself and make a life for yourself in which being known to be gay is reasonably safe and okay. You can't enjoy an active sex/dating life as a gay person and just expect that everybody who finds about it (including bitter ex-boyfriends and other people who may have reason to dislike you) will accept responsibility for keeping their mouths shut.
"No. Its not."
No one ever complains when the media writes that a male star has a female love interest. It's only homosexuality that is seen as taboo and off-limits.
What people don't get is that Shep was going out on the town with this guy on PUBLIC dates. It's wrong to write that he has a boyfriend, when he has no problem being seen out in public with this guy? You think he's really going to kill himself over this? He isn't a DEEPLY closeted guy. It's not like he only has sex with guys in bathroom or in steamrooms, or is taking ex-gay classes at the Scientology center.
R21 that's probably what they said when were using electric torture to cure gays from their "mental disease" in Castro's Cuba.
"Conform, comrade, it's for your own good. One of us!"
You want to validate yourself by enforcing conformity, R21, no different from a Baptist church lady, Maoist Cultural Revolutionary, or mullah.
[quote]No one ever complains when the media writes that a male star has a female love interest.
Very true. But it still doesn't change the fact that its none of our business.
"You want to validate yourself by enforcing conformity, R21, no different from a Baptist church lady, Maoist Cultural Revolutionary, or mullah."
Do you realize how stupid you sound? Writing that a gay person is gay makes someone a Mao Cultural Revolutionary? Um, okay. You know damn well that you would never say something like that if the Enquirer wrote an article about two straight stars dating. You're enforcing conformity - conforming to the notion that homosexuality should be a dirty secret while heterosexuality should be talked about openly. You are the one who sounds a lot like a Baptist church lady from the 1890s who thinks homosexuality is "the love that dare not speak its name"
Trolldar reveals R26 to be a nutcase. The ramblings of the mentally ill. Let me guess, Log Cabin Republican? Fiscal conservative?
It's rather amusing to see such sentiments written on a gossip site, r27.
Right, r26, etc. Anyone who declines to lie for you and pretend you that you dig chicks and only chicks ought to just go sign up for the Taliban. Perhaps you ought to stop fooling around with men if the thought that somebody might let slip the simple, factual observation that you're into other guys is so fearsome to you that you need to twist your little brain into knots explaining how your potential "outer" is really a Baptist Communist dictator church lady mullah.
R28 R29 R31 - yeah, no projection and pressure to conform to your worldview there.
We have one thing in common, emotional or physical attraction to people of thr same sex. I don't presume to speak for you. You don't speak for me.
If you don't see the inherent hypocrisy in proclaiming yourselves freedom fighters, while bringing down the hammer on those who dissent from your groupthink, eh. This is your playground. But get off your "We ♥ diversity" high horse. You are no different than the bigots you decry.
Nice try freeper shit stain at R32. I am willing to bet you have a diagnosed mental disorder. Your inane ramblings reveal who you are.
What are you so afraid of, R32?
Anyone over the age of 25 deserves to be outed. There's no excuse for it and closeted people make it look like being gay is something to be ashamed of. And if you're in the public eye, I definitely have no sympathy for them because having your personal life under a microscope comes with the fame package.
R32 Afraid of unthinking mob mentality especially when the mob attempts to speak for me or represent me, unbidden.
Seriously, you're debating the ethics and morality of "forcing" an individual "out" of a political-social metaphor, a concept of the group he or she might not accept. This isn't about gossip, or Smith, it's about the rights of the individual vs the pressure of the majority, be it the Gay orthodoxy or the majority of the population.
Bringing pressure to bear on the individual to behave as -you- want, for your own self-interest, degrading him or her for not acquiesing, then telling them it's "for their own
good"...we have met tve enemy, and he is us, as Pogo said
so why aren't more actors getting this treatment?
they are so fake!
R35 what if it will put their livelihood in danger?
what if they will be cut off by family?
what if they will lose their job?
what if they become homeless like those homeless gay teens that nobody cares about!?
it is not what should be,it is what is.
R37 actors are fake....
well..i think it is their job.also their job includes having frau fans having wet pussy for them.being ''straight'' i imagine,is helping with that.
R32 Wow, you must be such an asshole in real life. Gay, straight or bi really makes no difference in your case - I'm sure you are perpetually alone.
You still need a thick skin to be openly gay and it takes time to develop one. It does 't matter if you're 'straight-acting' or not, you'll probably still be a laughing-stock for, for instance, most colleagues at work.
While most straights won't openly harm or harras you, a lot will avoid you, ignore you and point and laugh at you from a distance. I've seen this happen all the time.
I'm Dutch and even in my so-called 'gay friendly' country gays (and especially gay men) are still an object of ridicule, even among educated people. You're looked upon as nothing more than an entertaining curiosity and every friendly gesture toward the same sex is immediately considered a 'come on'. Although, I have to admit that the Dutch a famous for being crude and ignorant peasants.
Even though there is little outright hatred, it still hurts and again: some gays don't know how to cope with that.
[quote]You mean "telling the truth".
stfu, r5. It's non of your fucking business to out someone.
I don't understand why this is newsworthy. If he was dating a 26-year-old female employee, it would merit barely a sentence. The guy who is stalking him is a parody of a journalist and Gawker is often amusing but frequently an embarrassment. It and its associated sites are full of non-stories, mislabeled stories and deliberately distorted stories,
R41 Honestly, I'm not surprised. No offense, but Dutch people are some of the biggest assholes I've ever met. They're so rude and miserable. I went to Holland once and was surprised how awful most of the people were.
So, If I see my professor in some club and he is all over his boyfriend/husband, then it is [italic]my[/italic] business to tell everyone in college that professor x is gay?
r5, r7, r16 you need to build up your low self esteem. Get some dick and realize not everyone has to agree with you, and you aren't a MARY if someone disagrees. Fuck off, you pathetic cunt.
What R38 wrote colors a lot of my thinking on this subject. Every person I've known who was closeted was there not because they were ashamed to be gay, but because coming out would have created too many problems for them. Many of them were children of immigrants who came from a culture where homosexuality was not tolerated. Coming out would have meant their parents cutting them off, no longer paying for college, kicking them out of the house etc. A few of them planned on telling their family after they graduated and had settled in a good job because that was the only insurance they had their life would not be ruined. One did eventually come out sooner than he wanted because his parents were insisting he enter the arraigned marriage they set up for him as a child in India. As expected, they cut him off. He kissed his college degree good bye, but he said there was no way he could be dishonest once another persons future was involved.
A lot of us are very fortunate. We have families and friends who are supportive and love us no matter what. Not everyone is so lucky.
I'm shocked that so many posters are defending the closet on an ANONYMOUS gay message board. SHOCKED, I tell you!
Out everybody, out, out, out.
[quote]Bringing pressure to bear on the individual to behave as -you- want, for your own self-interest, degrading him or her for not acquiesing, then telling them it's "for their own good"...we have met tve enemy, and he is us, as Pogo said
Freak show, you are putting a whole lot of thoughts into other people's heads that no one has actually expressed here. I could not possibly care less how you behave and have no interest in forcing you to acquiesce to to anything. You can be a screeching gay rights activist on the level of Larry Kramer, a lisping, flaming gay-from-space twin of Charles Nelson Reilly, or just a dude who's attracted to dudes but feels no connection whatsoever to the gay community; makes no difference to me.
But if I actually knew you in real life, well enough to know you prefer the pole to the hole, I would not lie about or deny that reality if the subject came up, any more than I'd tell someone that you're tall when I know you're 4'8" or have a lean, muscular body when I know you weigh 400 pounds of flab. In relating a simple fact about you, I might be describing something you don't especially love about yourself, but I'm not fucking presuming to speak for you, for pete's sake—I'm just stating a simple fact, instead of consenting to lie. If you expect me to do otherwise, then frankly it's you who are trying to force me to conform to your worldview.
Often times, when somebody is "forced" out of the closet, it's because they are gay men or women, who treat other gay men and women like they are sub-human. They often legislate against them, or isolate them in some facet of society. These gay men and women who are outed are most times homophobic. I support outing. I think it should be done all the time.
These individuals also act as though "gay" is the worse thing in the world and would never associate with a gay person, which in turn, deserves a good outing. There is nothing wrong with being gay or with gay people.
These closeted individuals are hypocrites and liars.
Finally, the only people, both gay and straight, who have issues with outing a closeted gay person are homophobes, who on some level, have issues with homosexuals and homosexuals already regardless of what they say. A gay person who had no issues with who he/she was would say, "Yup, I'm gay, so what. Let's move on. I was a coward for concealing and lying who I was. I apologize."
I wish Perez Hilton would continue outing. He was doing a great thing. Only homophobes chastised him for it, as well his being feminine and fat, and...well...gay. Luckily, there are now new websites popping up who have no qualms about outing some homophobic gay coward.
Who cares if someone is in the closet or out of the closet? That's their own business.
The only people who deserve to be outed are those who cover their tracks by actively working against gay rights or who work for some organization or political party that does. Smith falls into this category by working for Fox.
If I had evidence that some liberal person, say Jon Stewart, was gay, I'd just keep it to myself. If had evidence that Brian Brown, president of the national organization for marriage, was gay I'd out him. Simple as that.
[quote]Who cares if someone is in the closet or out of the closet? That's their own business.
This only seems to apply to gay people. Of course we have to read about the Kardashians, and George Clooney, and Britney Spears, and on and on, and on. Why can't their life be none of out business? Why is it, only the homosexual's life is none of our business?
Is it the homosexual part, R52? Is it the "ewww" part? Is it, homosexuality isn't "normal" part? I want to know the root of this "none of your business" concept that only applies to homosexuals. There has to be reason for it. I want an honest one.
[quote]Of course we have to read about...
Speak for yourself. No one is holding a gun to my head making me read that shit.
Roughly one in four gay posters on this board are complete closet cases as we just found out. So glad that poll happened, it explains SO MUCH.
[quote]it explains SO MUCH.
What does it explain r56 - that not all gays are bitter, angry, hurt queens who want to out others for no apparent reason?
It's alright R57, I understand it isn't easy to see from your world view. Some of us just live lives these days where all this talk out "outing" and "secrets" seems a bit silly. Let it sink that being gay is not something that needs to be "hidden" anymore than your race or being left-handed.
I'm also young and been openly gay for years though, it is just illuminating to know that for a large part of the posters here trying to hide away their sexuality like it is some dark secret is still a part of their day to day life.
[quote]it is just illuminating to know that for a large part of the posters here trying to hide away their sexuality
Who here is hiding away their sexuality?
R59 a recent poll with over 500 responses showed that ~23% of posters either hide their sexuality from everybody or hid their sexuality from everybody except for a select few people. If you search it should be easy to find.
R60 I thought when you said "posters here" you referring to this thread, not another, unrelated thread.
R57, you seem to be missing the memo. Replace "no apparent reason" with gay Republicans and there you have the motive. I wouldn't hesitate for a second outing a closeted gay Republican. They have the stupidity to support a political party that actively works to oppress me, so damn straight I will out their lying asses and enjoy the show. If you want to live in the closet, either don't support the hate group that is the GOP or stand against your party's positions that not only fucks over yourself, but innocent people. Shep can't have it both ways and hopefully he either comes out or his audience turns on him for being a closeted cock sucker. Either way it's his just desserts.
r58, dear, not every single gay is born with the perfect family in the perfect environment. Mind your own fucking business. Just because I support gays who stay in the closet doesn't mean I'm either a closeted myself or that the man I support is a coward.
[quote]Let it sink that being gay is not something that needs to be "hidden" anymore
Why don't you tell that to the dead gays who've been beaten to death on the streets, or who've been kicked out of their houses, lost their jobs and secluded from their friends, you dumb, delusional queen.
r60, You dumb delusional cunt. Just because there are 500 posts or votes, It doesn't mean there were 500 different people on this site voting. It's not that hard to delete your cookies and vote again, or go on a complete different device, or even vote from different places.
Here's what I don't get.
Why are there some people who get so hostile and hysterical about people who are in the closet? (I mean regular people, not hypocrite politicians.) What does it matter if they are? Most people are out. How much difference will the rest of them make?
Or are the angry out just the opposite extreme of the still closeted?
I'm out. I couldn't care less who else is or isn't. I don't get why people get so wild about it in 2013. Life is good.
[quote] you seem to be missing the memo.
r62, why don't you get the fucking memo and realize we aren't talking about republicans, and we are talking about normal, young men. Don't try changing this to somethings else.
[quote]So, If I see my professor in some club and he is all over his boyfriend/husband, then it is my business to tell everyone in college that professor x is gay?
I don't know that it's your business and of course you don't HAVE to tell anyone if you don't want to, but you also have no obligation to keep your mouth shut about something you saw someone openly doing in a public place.
Hey dumb ass at R66, the linked article deals with closeted asshole Shep Smith and his boy toy. This thread was made in response to another thread where people were celebrating this closet case being outted. I am hardly "changing" the subject. The point remains there are very valid reasons to out some people. The ones coming to the defense of the closet are Log Cabin types and gay conservatives with whom I would and will gladly out any opportunity I get.
[quote]I'm out. I couldn't care less who else is or isn't.
I don't really care who else is out, either, but nor will I necessarily go out of my or outright lie to help someone stay in.
Even gays hate gays.
Actually, r68, the guy you responded to never said anything about republicans and was talking about gays in general. Your mary lips changed the subject into something hateful. I agree with him anyway.
[quote]but nor will I necessarily go out of my or outright lie to help someone stay in.
No wonder you are living a lonely bitter life.
[quote]No one is outing Shep. People are speaking the TRUTH about his sexuality and pointing out the hypocrisy of a gay man working for a mouth piece of a political party and network that is virulently anti-gay. Out all Republican shit stains till they demand THEIR party to cut the gay bashing.
Came here to say this. Someone beat me to it.
R71, if you equate telling the truth as being hateful, that reveals more about your self loathing more than it does anyone else's.
I will never out someone just because I feel like I need more numbers in my sexual preference demographic chart. Have fun bullying each other.
I agree with you r76. These aggressive queens want all gays to be out so they can flash their numbers, it doesn't matter if a young gay boy gets beaten to death or gets run over by a car.
I'm going to "out" myself: I'm a guy, attracted to guys, but being around gay culture, I've realized I'm at heart a heterosexual trapped on a homosexual body. Like Chaz Bono, trapped by biology. The only thing lacking from a relationship with terrific women was my lack of physical desire for them. Men, though, are generally such assholes, of the kind all over this thread, that I cannot live a lie. I don't want to be gay.
So, I'm out as a gay guy who would tather be into chicks. Celebrate me!
Out and proud!
I've outed guys accidentally or without thinking about it. Oops. I'd forget that I was supposed to pretend not to know.
With each of your posts, R77, you reveal why you probably weren't the smartest kid in your class. No is talking about outing young gay boys. Your hyperbolic arguments might work in other forums, but DL can spot your kind a mile away. Keep posting though. It's like a high school speech and debate club.
R76 It's the imperative of the group to force the individual to submit, to sibordinate him or herself to the wishes of the majority.
What it is is fascism.
R78, many in this thread have already pointed out that those defending the closet are gays who are self loathing. Your admission that you don't want to be gay perfectly highlights that point.
r80. You dumb cunt, most of the posters here are talking about young gay boys and not about republicans, except for maybe you.
[quote]Why don't you tell that to the dead gays who've been beaten to death on the streets,
I frankly doubt that gay bashing and forcibly outing people have all that much to do with each other. I'd guess that the majority of people who've been gay bashed in recent years were out of their own volition, and happened, unfortunately, to have an encounter with some lunatic(s) who had a problem with that. I don't see this as a reason that all gays should keep their sexuality hidden, just in case, but maybe you do.
[quote] or who've been kicked out of their houses, lost their jobs and secluded from their friends, you dumb, delusional queen.
I already said this upthread, so sorry for repeating myself, but—by this point in history, if you are an adult person who intends to engage in same-sex sexual and/or romantic liaisons, at some point, you have a responsibility to yourself to set up your life such that you're not going to lose everything and wind up penniless and friendless on the streets if someone finds out you are gay. In this day and age, gay people (or same-sex-attracted, if you prefer) have plenty of options as far as finding employment and housing that they cannot legally be fired/removed from if someone discovers they like to bang other chicks or dudes. (And It's really not that hard to meet people and find friends who are accepting of homosexuality, either.) So, again, if you plan to engage in the homosex, even if you also plan to never, ever, ever come out, even if you reject the whole concept of being an "out gay"—for god's sake, get yourself a job and an apartment that can't be taken from you if you do somehow get outed. Don't just cross your fingers and hope that everyone who is aware of your same-sex activities chooses not to breathe a word to the wrong people.
r77 is right. If a gay boy got shot right in front of you 'out' hostile bitches, you wouldn't even bother to call 911.
[quote]I frankly doubt that gay bashing and forcibly outing people have all that much to do with each other.
R81, add punctuation and spelling to your list of things to work on with your social worker. If you ever get back on your meds that is.
[quote] No wonder you are living a lonely bitter life.
My life is neither lonely nor bitter, r72, but I have to wonder what sort of life you are leading in which lying and otherwise actively going out of your way to help people stay in the closet is required to avoid loneliness and bitterness.
[quote]My life is neither lonely nor bitter
Are you sure about that r89? You seem to need medical attention right away.
R82 Not self-loathing, I'm -accepting- the fact that I don't want to be gay, I'm embracing it. I've come out, I'm proud of my desire to be genuinely heterosexual. I embrace it.
Out. Proud. Where's my parade?
To be honest - I wish I had never come out to my friends. It was fine with just my family and bf, but I lost a lot when I came out. I'd love to go back to the way it was.
[quote]You seem to need medical attention right away.
Sure, dude. Clearly, I'm having a medical emergency induced by not pretending enough gay people are actually straight today. Or something. Maybe you could explain for us how that works.
Do fools like you and r85 realize that hysterically slinging illogical and unsupported accusations around does not strengthen your argument and, in fact, does just the opposite?
You really want to be friends with people who don't like you after finding out you like dudes R92? Think about what you are saying and have some self-respect.
R78, what is it about being straight that you want? If it comes down to guys being assholes, find a sweet guy who isn't one. Or figure out what qualities you liked in girls from your past and look for guys who have them. Make that your priority instead of cock size or how roided out his arms are or whatever.
Okay, here is something I don't get. A lot of posters here are saying they will never lie for some to hide they are gay. Fair enough, lying is not right and I could never see myself doing that. But I also can never see myself being in that position in the first place. I can not see an occasion where anyone I know would ask me, "is so and so gay?" I don't know, maybe its the people I hang around with, but asking such a question sounds like something that happened in high school. They would no sooner ask that than ask if I knew how much money someone earned.
Straight life does seem a lot less fraught. I'm bored with being gay and more bored with gays. As I age - I'm 44 - I am becoming friends with more straight people again. All this superficiality... sex, body fascism, style, camp, Peter Pan-ism... it's just really tedious. I can think of one one gay man I know who is just a normal, grounded, low maintenance guy. There's so much damage in our community. I'm tired of it.
sorry, should be: will never lie for someone so to hide they are gay
R96 - you already know the answer. There's a lot of people on this board who are plainly the types that need to be at the center of those types of discussions. You're right, it's total high school drama. They wouldn't have it any other way. Nothing better going on, I suppose.
[quote]Straight life does seem a lot less fraught.
I don't know about that. A lot of my straight friends are getting pressure from their family to settle down, get married and start cranking out grandchildren. Being gay sure cures that issue. Honestly R97, it sounds like you're hanging around with a lot of immature assholes. I don't even know 30 year olds who act like that. I'm not saying they don't exist. I just avoid them.
I sure hope never to meet vicious, bitter queens, who make it their business to out someone. I'm glad I live in an environment surrounded by humans and not bragging dogs barking at a closeted.
R96, you and your friends never have any conversations about who is dating whom, the status of each others romantic relationships, sexual activity, "my partner and I went to suchandsuch and did thusandso" - nothing at all?
You must know a very odd, and apparently silent, group of people.
Conversations and passing comments about the various personal relationships and activities of one's friends are commonplace and normal.
To get back to Shep - He's a public figure with a very high profile - his choice.
He openly went out around town with his boyfriend - his choice.
He attracted attention by screaming rudely at a waitress in public - his choice.
His unseemly behavior got press coverage. None of this is unusual nor does it give Shep victim-of-outing status.
He outed himself, there's no point in whining about it and pointing fingers at other people now. If Shep wanted to stay in the closet, he should have stayed home with his boyfriend in the goddamn closet.
Well-known news anchors for Faux Noise (and every other television program and network) don't get to be anonymous. Nobody decided that for him, it's simply the reality of his chosen profession.
Shep has no one to blame but himself and no one to bitch at about this, neither do the asshole freepers and closet apologists posting to this thread. Suck it up and deal with reality, fragile flowers.
[R92] My condolences to you, I hope that you find new friends. Coming out to straight people is overrated. Outing others is very rarely justified.
R96 The examples you gave are not in any way even remotely close to someone asking if another person is gay. I mean really, if you are going to respond to a post, can you at least respond to what was written and not what you imagine was written?
R95 It's not what I want. I suppose in the same way transsexuals "know" that they're one kind of person born in the "wrong" body, I now realize that, aside from schoolboy crushes on other boys, I have nothing in common with gay culture. I am a heterosexual with a brain wired to find guys attractive.
Emotionally, tho, I've always been drawn to women, moreso as I get older.Just never had that "need pussy NOW" hunger. But I never needed dick veryuch, either. Less as I grew up.
So, perhaps I "outed" myself prematurely when I was young, when I should have been more patient, less driven by group politics.
But, being out as a once gay guy accepting his late-bloomong heterosexual feelongs, grrat!
[R62] You're a ridiculous, self-righteous leftist. Republicans are mostly neutral on gay people. They don't support barring gays from employment, housing, or medical care. They certainly don't support gay bashing. If you're talking about the gar marriage thing, only the professional gays care about that. Most gay people have no desire to get married and are indifferent to it.
[quote] They don't support barring gays from employment
[quote]A lot of posters here are saying they will never lie for some to hide they are gay. Fair enough, lying is not right and I could never see myself doing that. But I also can never see myself being in that position in the first place.
I'm one of the people here who has said I'd never lie, and you have a point—I'm saying this mostly theoretically; it's not like I often find myself in a position in which it's an issue. For one thing, pretty much all the gay people I know are out (unless they're so closeted I'm not aware of their gayness. I do have one or two acquaintances I suspect of being big ol' closet cases, but that's different—I would not "out" somebody I did not actually know for a fact to be gay, just because they trip my gaydar or whatever). For another thing, like you, I don't really know anybody who would inquire about someone else's sexuality for malicious or gossipy purposes.
[quote]I can not see an occasion where anyone I know would ask me, "is so and so gay?"
As I said, I also cannot see an occasion where someone would ask me this for a shitty reason; however, I have had people ask it because they thought so-and-so would be a great match for a single friend but weren't sure he was gay/straight, or even on one occasion because they'd been chatting with so-and-so about sports and thought he might want to join their gay volleyball team but were not sure he was gay. In those instances, the question was not gossipy or offensive in any way, but it also didn't require me to out anybody, because the people in question were already out (and would never have expected or wanted me to lie).
But I also can never see myself being in that position in the first place.
I can not see an occasion where anyone I know would ask me, "is so and so gay?"
More of R106 lies exposed
[quote]Thus far, the GOP-led Idaho Legislature has refused to add housing and workplace protections for gays and lesbians to the Idaho Human Rights Act.
[quote]Republicans are mostly neutral on gay people.
I guess the Texas GOP has a different definition to the word "neutral".
[quote]Homosexual behavior is contrary to the fundamental, unchanging truths that have been ordained by God
WTF are you assholes talking about R76, R77?
You are the only people on the thread talking about outing little boys and outing people for "demographic numbers". So basically you idiots are yelling at yourselves.
[quote]Republicans are mostly neutral on gay people.
That's a lie.
[quote]They don't support barring gays from employment, housing, or medical care.
That's a lie as well as a lie by omission.
[quote]They certainly don't support gay bashing.
That's a lie - a BLATANT lie.
[quote]If you're talking about the gar [sic] marriage thing, only the professional gays care about that.
That's a lie - a HUGE lie.
[quote]Most gay people have no desire to get married
Oh wow - that might actually be true, but then...
[quote]and are indifferent to it.
You go right back to lying.
You lie a lot, R106, you might want to see someone about that.
I love threads like this because it really does expose closet cases as the psychologically damaged, self loathing people they are. It's no wonder why the biggest advocates for the closet are Republican shit stains like R106. The defenders of the closet are presenting a better case AGAINST the closet than any other argument in this thread. Keep talking closet freaks/freepers. Your words reveal how fucked up you are in the head.
"I sure hope never to meet vicious, bitter queens, who make it their business to out someone"
I hope never to meet such sad closet queens, who think that homosexuality should be treated like a dirty secret.
"You're a ridiculous, self-righteous leftist. Republicans are mostly neutral on gay people."
You're a sad Uncle Tom. You realise Republicans wanted to amend the constitution just to discriminate against gays, right? And that John McCain called it a sad day when Don't Ask Don't Tell was repealed?
"What it is is fascism."
You obviously don't know what fascism means.
"Straight life does seem a lot less fraught. I'm bored with being gay and more bored with gays. As I age - I'm 44 - I am becoming friends with more straight people again. All this superficiality... sex, body fascism, style, camp, Peter Pan-ism... it's just really tedious"
You're just a troll. You think straight people don't care about sex? You think straight women aren't obsessed with their weight and how they look?
"Why don't you tell that to the dead gays who've been beaten to death on the streets, or who've been kicked out of their houses, lost their jobs and secluded from their friends, you dumb, delusional queen."
We aren't talking about Joe average here. He's a celebrity. He's a wealthy guy and will certainly not lose his job or get kicked out of his house. Why do people not understand the difference between writing about a gay celebrity and outing ordinary people?
"I'm a guy, attracted to guys, but being around gay culture, I've realized I'm at heart a heterosexual trapped on a homosexual body."
What does this even have to do with the topic of this thread? You're just a Republican troll looking to whine about "gay culture"
"I will never out someone just because I feel like I need more numbers in my sexual preference demographic chart. Have fun bullying each other."
Writing about a celebrity isn't bullying.
"I don't understand why this is newsworthy. If he was dating a 26-year-old female employee, it would merit barely a sentence. The guy who is stalking him is a parody of a journalist and Gawker is often amusing but frequently an embarrassment"
Writing about someone isn't stalking. No one accuses the gossip media of stalking if they talk about who Lindsay Lohan is fucking at the moment.
[quote]We aren't talking about Joe average here.
Actually, we are talking about Joe average here.
It's late in the thread for it, but the horrid cunt at R9, incapable of using English properly, adopts a straw-man scenario and then sits on her bloated twat all proud at her "logic." Evil, demented, false-speaking cunt.
R5 is right in that one person's decision to lie does not oblige someone else to keep it going. Discretion, humanity and understanding mitigate people's decisions about what to say about others, in most real-world cases.
But the pretense that BEING OUT = DEATH is about as far as a self-loather or a homophobe can go.
The right wing is the enemy of gay people. Assisting anyone in that camp in maintaining life in the closet is insupportable. And supporting any celebrity or public person in the closet is a very hard choice to make.
Ultimately, the lives of gay youth are at stake here. We as adults may all be okay with selectively keeping secrets, turning an eye, tolerating lying queens who live with the benefits of recent gains but insist they would lose money if they came out. But the message to gay youth, in such cases, is that there is something wrong with being gay, rather than there is something wrong with society being homophobic. Until a creepy bitch such as R5 gets that into her skull under her porkpie hat, she should keep her maw closed.
so who else is gay at fox? let's out them while we're at it...
[quote]You're just a troll. You think straight people don't care about sex? You think straight women aren't obsessed with their weight and how they look?
Angry much? What I posted is my experience and I posted it in all sincerity. Sorry if it's so unpleasant for you you have to decide I'm some kind of troll. It's no picnic for me either.
It's a pathetic and tedious set of priorities in either sexual preference but I - oh, never mind. You're not worth it.
Coming from someone bitching about the evils of "gay culture" (on a gay board, no less) that is pretty funny. Take a look in the mirror.
[quote]It's a pathetic and tedious set of priorities in either sexual preference
Well, yeah, that's true, but what is your point, then? That some humans are pathetic and tedious? Thanks, Captain Obvious, but I'm not sure how that relates to the closet issue.
R122 Don't let the shrill zealots silence you. I have a hunch that the number of people having your experience, my experience, is larger than people expect, perhaps surprisingly so.
Increasing, as well. It's not what the militants want to hear, so they'll attack by any means they deem necessary - self-loathing, freeper, shitstain Rethuglican troll, as seen in this thread.
I'd advise young men to be absolutely certain before "coming out". It's irreversible, unlike the Lesbian Until Graduation women. Having an emotional crush on a guy at school shouldn't mean you have to limit your life-long partner pool to the likes of the DL zealots.
[quote]Discretion, humanity and understanding mitigate people's decisions about what to say about others, in most real-world cases.
Exactly. I've said several times in here that I am disinclined to lie to protect someone's big gay secret. And I am. But if I knew someone who genuinely needed to be closeted for reasons of personal safety, of course I would not out him. I'd encourage him to do everything he could to change his situation as quickly as possible, and I might advise him to keep it in his pants until he'd taken some steps to make his life safer, but I would not out him. I have no desire to see someone beaten up or worse because somebody found out he was gay.
I would not, however, lie to protect the kind of person who just wants to have his cake and eat it, too. If you're one of those same-sex-attracted types who wants to enjoy all the homosex you can get but does not want to be lumped in with those icky, faggy gays (even though you'd not be in any particular danger if you were) ... well good luck to you. Maybe you'll pull it off. And if you do, I don't really give a shit. But would I lie to keep your same-sex attractions a secret? Fuck no. I wouldn't take out an ad in the NY Times, but I'd never feel the need to cover up for you, either. You're a little bit fascist if you think you've got a right to force me to.
"It's not what the militants want to hear, so they'll attack by any means they deem necessary - self-loathing, freeper, shitstain Rethuglican troll, as seen in this thread."
Sweetie, you Republican assholes are the ones calling names by comparing people to fascists and Maoists, mmmmkay. What are you even doing on a gay board? If you want to complain about how awful gay life is maybe you could go to the Ann Coulter forums.
R125, do you even know how to construct a sentence that doesn't come across as creepy and bizzare? Let me guess, borderline personality disorder?
IT IS IMPORATNT TO BE OUT OF THE CLOSET SO WE CAN ALL STAND AND BE COUNTED. STRENGTH COMES IN NUMBERS. I WILL NOT TOLERATE A CLOSETED GAY MAN. I HAVE OUTED OVER 30 MEN IN MY LIFE AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO. THEY ARE FUCKING COWARDS AND THEY ARE BEING SELFISH. COME OUT COWARDS OR I WILL OUT YOU. THAT IS A PROMISE!
only hot people should come out----frankly I'd rather not know anything about Sheppard Smith, gay, straight or otherwise....yucky
R128 Not so long ago your liking the dick would've been deemed a symptom of mental illness.
Turn those Oprah-honed powers of observation on 129 and diagnose away.
When it comes to being in the closet either shit or get off the pot. You MUST come out. Don't be a pussy like all of those spineless Hollywood carnival trash actors. I think every closeted faggot over 18 should either come out or BE OUTTED. You're either WITH US or AGAINST US. Like Sister Sledge said, "We Are Family." Act like it, god dammit! Grow some balls and man the fuck up. Hiding in the closet is for cowards and pussies. Don't be ashamed of who and what you are. Come the fuck out, for god's sake!
You make it sound like quite a family, R133. Can't wait!
The fate of closeted gays who do harm to other gays, such as in politics, well I leave them to their fate.
I also remember my process, I remember all the factors that influenced it, and I won't judge people at their point in the process and I won't presume to simplify it on their behalf.
I do know the anger and harshness I see from some posters does more harm than good. If you're uncertain, to read this rage wouldn't be very encouraging.
I know DL has a contingent of fucked up freaks among the ranks and I know they're more prevalent on weekends. It would be so much better for everybody if they weren't attached to this question.
I can't stand reading this thread. Some very cruel, damaged people around here, probably the first ones to demand everybody be out on their terms.
Sorry, r129, but you sound even more psycho than the closet defenders. Where the hell are you hanging out that you've actually met 30 closet cases to out? And has it not occurred to you that if someone has to be dragged from the closet kicking and screaming they're not exactly standing and being counted or helping us achieve strength through numbers?
I really don't think it's anyone's business about how another gay person chooses to reveal his or her sexuality. However, no one should be bullied or forced into coming out until he or she is ready and not financially dependent on parents, etc.
R129 Interfering in someones life so you can get some sort of validation is also selfish.
R106, et al. is evil and should receive FFs.
As for the question: I'm not supportive of outing people; but I am supportive of outing those who bring harm to people who are among the LGBT community. For example, I'm supportive of outing closeted politicians as well as religious figures who currently - or have done so in the past - put forth efforts to discriminate against and destroy LGBT person[s]. Yes, those are the type of people who should exposed.
It isn't so I can get validation R139, that's the biggest lie of them all. Outed people fare better (unless they live in a murderous culture, which thankfully is not so much a problem in the USA today as it was 20 years ago).
r129 outed 30 people? how? did he call their parents? employer? or does he just mean that he started threads on DL stating Kevin Spacey is gay etc?
After finding out if someone is gay, I need to know next if he's a top or a bottom.
R140 is scary. Glad I don't live where he does.
How do you know don't? And what is so scary about thinking that closeted politicians, etc., who actively work against gay rights should be outed?
It is in no way forcing someone out of the closet when he repeatedly shows public affection with his boyfriend.
The idea that someone has the right to decide how someone lives is crazy. What's the difference between forcing someone out of the closet and telling someone they can't marry whom they choose?
[quote]It is in no way forcing someone out of the closet when he repeatedly shows public affection with his boyfriend.
This. A million times this. He is living a "openly gay" life. He just wants everyone else to pretend like they didn't see it. Bitch please.
Part of the anger in outing is what black people feel. You can pretend not to be gay, you cannot pretend not to be black. (worse even for a minority who is also gay). Out gay people feel closeted people get the best of both worlds. You want to be with me in private but hide me away in public because you are to scared to be who you are.
Shepard Smith would not get fired if he came out. Fox would parade him around as a gay for fox. They would get one!
I have often wondered if some of the racist and anti-women posts made on this site are by closeted people who have no idea what it is like to be a visible minority.
I could never be closeted because I hate homophobes so much. Closet-cases have to grin and bear it around homophobes, I'd rather tell them off and take the consequences, if any.
[quote]The idea that someone has the right to decide how someone lives is crazy. What's the difference between forcing someone out of the closet and telling someone they can't marry whom they choose?
How exactly are you defining "forcing someone out of the closet?" I mean, obviously, if I'm on a mission to out people who are just minding their own business and being very discreetly gay—if I have to spy in their bedroom windows or hack into their computers or something to even learn this information, and then I spread it all over town—that is wrong.
But that is not a very realistic scenario, and I don't think it's what most people here (with the possible exception of one or two freaks like r129) are talking about. I think most of us who've said we're not going to lie or knock ourselves out to protect somebody's closeted status are talking about situations wherein, for example, you see some guy out in the bars every weekend, hanging all over his bf-du-jour, but then you're supposed to be sworn to secrecy outside a strictly gay environment. Or a friend is dating some closet case who's okay being out among your small circle of friends, but again, you're not supposed to breathe a word to anyone else in the world. (And you don't need to be a big gossip for that to get weird fast. It's awkward always having not only to omit the closet case's presence when describing what you did last weekend but also to have to pretty much stop chatting about the friend who's dating the closet case, too.) Or, you yourself are dating a closet case and now, not only are you supposed to be keeping somebody else's big secret, but you are not allowed to publicly discuss your own freaking relationship and life.
Those are the sorts of situations in which I would find it acceptable to share the information that some closeted person is gay. I wouldn't consider it "forcing" anyone out of the closet since such people are already selectively out anyway--it's just that like Shep Smith, they want everyone to pretend not to know when it's convenient to them to be seen as straight. Even then, it's not like I'm going around looking to meet this kind of person (quite the opposite) or making a point of letting the world know they're gay. I just won't lie for them if it comes up.
"The idea that someone has the right to decide how someone lives is crazy."
How is writing about a celebrity deciding how someone gets to live? He takes his boyfriend out on public dates. Gawker wrote about it. End of discussion. No one would be saying the media is telling him how to live if they reported about him going out on public dates with a female. We have freedom of the press in this country.
We also have invasion of privacy in this country and, in many instances, journalists exercise taste and judgment in absence of legal restrictions, such as the decision not to publish rape victims' names, which is not against the law. No one in journalism supports what Trotter is doing because it isn't news or even very good gossip. It violates the privacy of someone who did not ask to be in the public eye--his boyfriend. Gawker does not use trained journalists and this is the result.
"It violates the privacy of someone who did not ask to be in the public eye--his boyfriend"
He goes out on public dates with Shep. They obviously don't mind being seen together.
"journalists exercise taste and judgment in absence of legal restrictions, such as the decision not to publish rape victims' names"
Shep isn't a rape victim, so why are you even bringing that up?
"Gawker does not use trained journalists and this is the result."
It's a gossip site - not the New York Times. Why would they hire trained journalists?
"No one in journalism supports what Trotter is doing because it isn't news or even very good gossip"
For something that isn't good gossip, people here sure seem to be talking about it (including you). Why get your panties in a bunch if you don't care?
Just more tired queens defending the closet. Snore. Shep himself hasn't even bothered to respond to this. If he isn't bothered why should you be?
In answer to your question OP, it's because I am not forcing them to do anything. I am simply not collaborating in a fraud. Honesty is always the best policy, and if that means people get outed, well, so be it. You act like I am trying to define your behavior, when the truth is the opposite. You have no right to make me lie for you.
[quote]We also have invasion of privacy in this country
It is not invading someone's privacy to comment on what they did in a PUBLIC place.
Famous people who are trying to stay in the closet don't regularly go out with their boyfriends to popular NYC bars.
Shep outed himself, apparently he was sick of being in the closet. Good for him.
Think I'm inclined to agree w r159.... any comment from Shep about his dramatic outing?