For obvious reasons please straight friends leave this poll for the gays.
I don't recall this poll and as much as we joke that many people on here are closeted I wonder how true that is with real data.
I tried to make the options as fair as possible
Back to the front
I'm not "out" but that doesn't mean I'm closeted.
[quote]I'm not "out" but that doesn't mean I'm closeted.
I thought I was closeted in the 90s.
I'd come out during heavy drinking all the time, then go back in as soon as I sobered up. Awkward.
Um.. you lost me there, R2.
This is needed by the Dept. of Health and Human Services. They are already spyin on us through our left eyeballs.
Where is the option "Other"? I'm out to my close family but not to any of my friends. That's because in my opinion there is no point in being out to many people when I'm not in a relationship and I won't be untill I move out of my pretty homophobic country after finishing university.
What country, R7?
It can be a good idea to stay in the closet until you finish college, or university, in the case of R7. If I had told my parents, they would have cut me off. Indeed, my father actually used the word "disinherited" when I did come out the year after college. But I was no longer dependent on him financially.
Poland,R8. I live in a big city and have a progressive family, but overall things are pretty shitty over here for out LGBT people and I can only dream about stuff like equal rights, gay marriage or adoption, so as soon as it's possible I'm out of here.
Good luck r10, always feel bad for gays outside of the enlightened countries.
I probably should have included an Other option i retrospect. Oh well.
I'd be really curious for the people who answered not at all to share. What are you reasons? Are you married? How do you feel about being closeted?
40% closeted to some degree. That's still huge.
I think everyone has their own definitions of what is what, don't they?
I'd say I'm open but to me all that means is that I don't watch my pronouns. Does that count?
I don't watch my pronouns either but I am deliberate about avoiding discussion of anything personal at work for economic reasons.
If I were to partner or marry I'd be completely open. No questions. But as a singleton I feel like a bit of an oddity straddling two worlds.
Single or not, if anyone asked, I'd tell the truth.
I only answered this poll because it forced me to think and what I concluded was everybody's got to make the decision about the degree of openness that works for them in their skin and in the circumstances around them.
The only people I feel proper judging are politicians who vote one way and suck something else.
I am fascinated by R7. How do you have friends if fundamental elements of who you are are not on the table?
And you are attending a University? Not sure if I buy that. Universities are much easier places to be out than almost anywhere else.
Maybe I am just feeding a troll here.
Well, R20. I don't have very "close" friends, so we don't talk about relationships and intimate stuff. I don't know some of them may suspect, I'm not ashamed of it and wouldn't lie if asked, but I don't see a point of coming out when, as I said before I'm not planning to have a boyfriend here in the place where I couldn't feel safe kissing him or even holding his hand in public out of fear.
Did you really ask how you can friends if you are closeted r20? Cause seriously you can't be that ignorant.
And interesting it is true, a significant percentage of this board is closeted.
I guess I am ignorant. In my experience even in a superficial friendship you talk about who you think is cute, current political issues (like gay marriage), and personal feelings.
I can imagine there are friendships in which such topics are off the table...but it would seem to me that the friends would even have to discuss taking them off the table (which is talking about them).
Maybe I am just ignorant about the varieties of friendship out there, but to me it sounds like R7 does not have any friends.
"I'm not ashamed of it and wouldn't lie if asked, but I don't see a point of coming out when, as I said before I'm not planning to have a boyfriend here in the place where I couldn't feel safe kissing him or even holding his hand in public out of fear."
Uh, hate to break it to you, but that is the very definition of "being ashamed."
Or you pretend or convince yourself that you like girls r23. I pretended I was straight and talked about and dated girls all through highschool and college. I had tons of close friends who knew every thing about me except that lie, thankfully they all stood by me once I was honest.
No, R24. That's protecting myself from being attacked on the street, saving my health and life.
Uh...hate to break it to you, but he is not ashamed.
Many do not consider themselves closeted just discreet. They need not advertise their sex lives.
I am bi but would never tell a gay person this as they are SO judgmental about it.
Is that closeted to be out about one aspect of sex but not the others?
Is it closeted to not tell the world you are a sub?
I have never come out. But I assume that people assume. I work in a career where it's just best to not discuss one's personal life. I don't define what I am as "closeted", I just don't discuss my personal life publicly. If someone asked me if I'm gay, I would just say that I don't discuss my personal life.
Closeted to me is actively pretending to be straight to the outside world. Degrees of disclosure can fit with a person's individual circumstances. Your first responsibility is to yourself.
No one is talking about revealing anything about anyone's sex life. R7 is not having sex. Some characteristics are just part of who we are. If I had to conceal that I was left-handed, Czech, gay, or male, it would be to deny an essential part of me.
Given that R7 claims that he is at a university, there are bound to be a number of out gay people around who are also maintaining their safety.
If the school is such an unsafe place with attacks on the streets, how do they maintain a student body, gay or straight? Areas with a high degree of bias-crimes tend to have a large degree of crime in general--so no one is really safe.
This sounds like rationalization. Was there ever a gay bashing where R7 is from? Probably. But in any university there are also many gay students (and gay organizations) who go about their business without incident.
If R7 is just wimping out, I wish he would be honest about it. Lots of people have fears. But he is either intentionally or unconsciously creating barriers to acting like a normal human being. I bet if he talked to some of the out gay students on his campus he might recognize what he is doing.
I'm between "Open in personal life but not in professional life" and "Completely open"
R31, I don't mean to offend you but you really don't know what you're talking about. Poland is not exactly USA or western Europe, we don't have anything like "gay organisations" at universities, we have one gay organisation for the whole country and that's all. Maybe I'm a coward but I want to live peacefully and that's why I'm planning to move. After that happens I will avoid even admitting where I'm from cause I hate my country and don't want to identify with it.
I'm in a country where it's social suicide to be non-heterosexual, and it's very illegal to be gay. So I'm closeted.
[quote]I'm in a country where it's social suicide to be non-heterosexual, and it's very illegal to be gay. So I'm closeted.
The Confederacy sucks in so many ways.
R7/R10, good luck. But why are you assuming you won't be in a relationship until you're out of university? Slim pickings, life planning, or self-limiting?
Thanks for posting - it's good for people to realize how constricted Poland is. People tend to assume it's just like Germany or other western European countries. And it's not.
Thank you for the kind words R36. I'm not planning to enter any relationship until I move to some more gay-friendly country where I can feel comfortable and safe and I'm not interested in flings or having to hide my partner or lie about his existence which I would have to do here.
Gays are getting normal! Gays are getting normal!
Poll is fucked. There are lots of other categories and definitions of "out."
Many one-dimensional gay men "lead with the gay" and everything is about rainbow glitter, parades, "events,' gay vacation destinations, gay ghettos and so forth. They lead isolated, insular, claustrophobic lives. They are tiresome.
r39 And many more people are comfortable with being gay, see nothing in it to be ashamed of and therefore make no effort to conceal. No matter how much it ruffles your delicate little feathers.
You sound like a hateful freak.
r39, you forgot your other favorite ridiculous phrase: "Shouting it from the rooftops!"
I'm out to all my close friends but that is it. I'm fresh out of college and am sort of coming out at my own pace right now, so I sort of take it on a person-by-person basis to determine if I want to tell a particular person. I figure the more people I come out to in my current community, the greater likelihood I will be able to find a relationship (which I want.)
Once I find a relationship I will probably come out to my immediate family. For some reason it just seems like it would be easier to say "I have a boyfriend," than "I am gay" --which is just such a cliche.
R40 and R41. "ALL WE ARE IS GAY. GAY. GAY." THAT IS ALL WE ARE. THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO KNOW ABOUT US BUT THAT WE ARE HOMOSEXUALS."
[quote]For some reason it just seems like it would be easier to say "I have a boyfriend," than "I am gay"
I get that, FWIW. We can huddle together while we are beaten with caftan and earrings.
You seem so sad R39 and R43, I honestly hope one day you can come to peace with your sexuality and realize it doesn't have to be a big deal. Being openly gay is really easy and not at all scary when you get used to it.
Right, that's what i said.
YOU are the moron, moron.
Some of you guys don't seem to understand what it means to say you're gay. Once you say it... you all of a sudden become responsible for every other gay person, you become part of this collective - good and bad. Some gay people just want to be and live life on their own terms. But ultimately it is a journey, and every needs to get to their place in their own way and in their own time.
R45, I have been out most probably longer than many posters here have been alive. Totally out. Haven't even thought about a closet in twenty years or more. I was just commenting on the fact that some gay men seem to have nothing MORE to offer up than their sexuality and THAT is tiresome in social situations. Of course, some douchenozzles got their caftans all up in their cracks about it. In a social situation, if a man cannot discuss current events, movies, politics, sports, culture, hobbies, books, his career, his INTERESTS, things going on his community, things going on in his life, SOMETHING beyond only talking about "hot guys" or making gay referenced jokes or gay "insults" like "GURRRl" or "get her" etc. then he is not very interesting. And is actually annoying. Except to other vapid guys like him.
That is all I meant.
I'm out to friends, family and colleagues, but I'm not "out" to most of my clients as I don't discuss my personal life (or politics or religion) with clients. There are some long time clients with whom I have developed a more personal relationship whom I have shared more personal information. But for most clients my personal life, politics, or religious beliefs have nothing to do with our transactions.
Out everywhere. I've been doing work in and for the community for nearly 30 years. If people don't know, then they simply are not paying attention.
Bump out. Would still love to hear from someone that isn't out at all.
Not out professionally.
I'm in a closet as I type this
Last week was my ten-year anniversary of coming out (and starting an infamous thread).
42% of survey respondents are closeted to some degree? That's chilling (in the frightening, not laid-back sense). When you consider that some of these little rabbits are scared to even press the button on an anonymous poll, that means the majority of our morning Dataloungers are closet cases. And while one of them lives in Poland, I'm guessing R42 has the reason the rest of you are closeted: because you don't have a partner.
Suck it up and get out there, bitches! There is no excuse for being lonely (other than existential loneliness, which you will never be rid of) in today's world.
yes, completely shocking.
Wow, surprised how many of us, so far, are at least somewhat closeted.
[quote] that means the majority of our morning Dataloungers are closet cases.
This surprises you?
Um, have you read this catty self-loathing hateful board????
Trans Jokes, Anti-butch, anti-woman, anti-everything threads dominate this place. How are you surprised that a majority of posters are mostly closeted self-loathing types?
R39 sounds very tedious
Actor here and identify as fluid with friends. professionally straight but don't discuss in details my life or lead on I like girls as some front. Seems easy...especially because most assume I'm straight when they meet me. Let's be honest, labeling yourself and categorizing is so narrow minded and out dated
r61 Please reread your post and try to grasp the ridiculousness of the your use of the phrase "Let's be honest...".
Out everywhere. Work, school, gym, public, family, friends. Anywhere/everywhere.
R62 yes let's....I'm my opinion...which means nothing that is why it is an opinion....the need to box everything in with labels so someone can have an immediate misperception about another based on something like sexuality is so....umm....trite.
And most of the gays on here who argue and carry on why some people don't come our, like us actors, are the very reason they don't. They think they are so revolutionary and progressed and open, but are actually the same thing that caused the closet I the first place, just dressed differently. Real change comes from no hang ups whatsoever.
r64 Opinions are only meaningless when they carry no validity or truth.
I applaud you in your transgressive dismissal of "labels". You and your other "actor" comrades are no doubt the vanguard of our Utopian future.
I was merely pointing out that a person who presents himself differently ("identify as fluid with friends") to two different groups of people ("professionally straight") probably isn't the most reliable proponent of what is "honest".
Completely out. Living any other way involves too much work and stress. And if you can't be fully out, then you still have problems with who you are.
We are pleased to see a thoughtfully designed poll for a change.
R62 not trying to backtrack but let me clarify....I meant I don't identify as anything...but professionally most assume I'm straight and I just don't say anything or make it a point that I'm bi...it's just easier to let them think what they want because they will anyway. With closer friends however, they know I roll with all the punches.
[quote] With closer friends however, they know I roll with all the punches.
What the fuck does that mean? Do you even know, or are you just stringing together meaningless phrases on your phone in a attempt to sound all philosophical and shit? Typical stupid actor who thinks he's smarter than he really is.
Yes typing on my phone. Means whatever you want it to mean. Nothing philosophical...just meant with those I trust that won't sell stories, I'm open about my sex life.
the most closeted people are also, ironically, the ones their straight friends secretly believe are gay.
This reminds me of a conversation I overheard at a party this past weekend...
"Straight women who date women, what is that?"
"Sometimes a woman dates men all her life, then meets another woman and falls in love— they're still straight— but they're involved with a woman..."
The person "explaining" this was a lesbian. It took all the strrength I could muster not to barge into that conversation and throw my drink in her face.
I call this kind of bullshit homo-erasure. Pretending a same-sex thing never happened or doesn't exist is a lie. If you have same-sex relationships—of any significance— you are NOT straight. Period.
And people who say "I don't believe in labels" are full of shit too.
That's like saying, I don't believe in water. I may want avoid getting wet, but that don't mean it don't exist and rains still falls from the sky.
People WILL label you as one thing or another until you speak out for yourself. If you're silent, you are allowing people to LABEL YOU- and you're allowing them to label you as "straight", bitch, knowing that it's a lie.
Being "Out" means you're not allowing people to carry on their hetero-presumptions about you or erase the same-sex relationship you have— or the people you had them with.
[quote]I call this kind of bullshit homo-erasure. Pretending a same-sex thing never happened or doesn't exist is a lie. If you have same-sex relationships—of any significance— you are NOT straight. Period.
I know. What is the big deal of calling yourself bisexual if you are attracted to both sexes or gay if you are attracted to the same sex? Has homophobia damaged you that much? Are you that gutless?
Clearly you aren't bisexual...less accepted than gay...especially by gay people. People fear what they don't understand and/or are jealous of....
I say completely out, but actually hiding in plain sight to anyone who does not know me.
Who are you talking to r75?
I need to exist when I'm in a relationship.
That means my partner acknowledges me as whatever I am to them. Dating or otherwise.
I will never allow myself to be used by someone who can't tell their co-workers, family or friends what I am to them.
Anyone who engages in a relationship that involves becoming invisible on demand, is...well, rather sad. Furthermore it shows that you have no expectation of it lasting.
This is someone who assumes that other person is not worth the struggle or the hassle- or that they themselves are not worth the even the most basic task of a relationship, acknowledgement among peers.
R75 etc. You really come off as a narcissistic asshole in this thread. Even your writing style is completely self-absorbed, stream of consciousness bullshit.
r75 People understand opportunistic whores better than you may think.
Nothing wrong with stream of consciousness if it has conscious thought darling. Call me a narcissist if you like, that's fine. I'm not calling anyone names here, just stating my opinion. And that's exactly what it is, opinion....take it or leave it, and form your own in the process.
I can tell you from experience being an attractive bisexual male, the most un accepting group are out and proud gay men who use their "coming out" experience as the foundation of strength in their adult life, and judge anyone who doesn't do the same....and by doing so just show their fear that maybe they aren't what they thought they were or that life still moves on and it's really not that black and white. Oh, and of course don't believe you anyway and just say you are a self hating queen in denial because their mad you enjoy getting it up for a hot chick and they can't.
You're a narcissist r81 .
Why am I a narcissist?
I'm not denying it...both my parents are....many people are.....it's not a great thing..but you gotta be something....I'd all what YOU think you are...so defensive and feel the need to label someone a narcissist on an anonymous internet board, as if that achieves anything.
I know you think you're quite fascinating, R81, but the truth of the matter is that your "friends" most likely experience you as a dreadful bore.
"Call me a narcissist if you like, that's fine."
Stupid + vain + touchy = actor.
And there it is, didn't take too long. Just remember that the next time one of your hot stud buddies is sticking his huge cock down your throat or some big titted babe is bouncing on your own raging tool. Listen close, it's barely a whisper, but you'll hear it:
"faggot, faggot, faggot, faggot, faggot"
[quote] with those I trust that won't sell stories, I'm open about my sex life.
This bitch was probably a one-time extra on The Good Wife.
This thread just shows the rampant cynicism in culture today
Real men admit to loving / fucking other men, cowards hide behind other peoples' "assumptions".
[quote]Clearly you aren't bisexual...less accepted than gay...
I am not bisexual. I'm gay. Who cares if I am accepted or not? I live in America. Nobodies accepted.
Just caught up on this thread. I think the closeted actor fellow wanted everyone to start guessing his identity (hence the "sell stories" hint), but then it backfired when he was called out on his shite. He was kind of bullied on here, imo, but it was pretty funny. Seemed like a cunt so I won't defend him.
[quote]I think the closeted actor fellow wanted everyone to start guessing his identity...
Well, clearly he's not a working actor if he has time to troll gay message boards.
I answered that I am out in personal but not professional although that is only partially true. I operate 2 totally different types of businesses, one in the financial sector, one in retail. There are very few of my financial clients aware but other than that I am out. It really is because I have found that those clients tend to be more conservative and less comfortable with it...and they are my main income source. I would never deny it if some situation arose that it became a question but don't volunteer the info. In all other aspects of my life, personal & the retail business I openly discuss my partner.
Trolldar R61 if you want to see what denial, misplaced self-pity and deep self-unawareness look like. Also: classic closet case. "Fluid", "bis have it worse than gays", "don't believe in labels". It's a textbook study in the form of a Datalounger.
I actually do believe in true bisexuals, but R61 is not one.
Poor little guy, he's no doubt desperately trolling Plenty of Fish right now for an Intimate Encounter with a "hot chick".
[quote]It really is because I have found that those clients tend to be more conservative and less comfortable with it...
WHO CARES! Pandering to these assholes. I love how you know they're conservative, however.
Don't guess, it doesn't matter...that's not the point. It's already been pointed out I make a living as an extra on the Good Wife.
Not trying to be a cunt, but shows me people here are less open minded than they think. If your view point isn't in the norm, which on this forum is the view of most gay men, then you are ostracized and called a hack narcissist. You all wonder why no one comes out. No one represses and judges gays more than other gays. no one is reinventing the wheel here....this is how it's always been in history
" I love how you know they're conservative, however."
Yes, I DO know they are conservative based upon years worth of conversations with them about things like the types of investments they make, their religious affiliations, etc. As an accountant you learn many aspects of clients personal lives, including religious and political standings. And, too bad you think it is pandering. I think it is protecting my client base and therefore my income.
[quote]Actor here and identify as fluid with friends. professionally straight but don't discuss in details my life or lead on I like girls as some front. Seems easy...especially because most assume I'm straight when they meet me. Let's be honest, labeling yourself and categorizing is so narrow minded and out dated.
Gay people like this really, really hurt the gay community in society. They are no different than Matthew Sheppard gay bashers in my mind.
You're a pathetic, weak "man", R100.
Aight...and I'm out....
r7, best of luck to you, many of the people here tend to forget that some of us still live in countries where being out is extremely dangerous. Mate, come out when you feel safe and are comfortable doing so.
r27, I've never understood that reasoning from bisexuals. How do you guys expect the preconceptions and myths about bisexuals to be addressed if you won't come out? And why would you care what (some) gay people say about you? If that was a legit reason to stay closeted then no gay person would ever come out.
No, you're not R103, you're closeted.
R61 is the reason why outing is still so important. That arrogance of that asshole calling gay men names, mocking them.
He should be outed. Hopefully he is.
[quote]You all wonder why no one comes out.
Are you actually claiming that people stay closeted because of disagreeable posts on gay websites?
Is this why you stay closeted? Because someone on a website somewhere might challenge your opinions?
Meanwhile, the point that you're missing is that people are disagreeing on your stance on staying closeted. So saying that you stay closeted because other people don't like that you're closeted is circular logic so twisted that it's making my head spin.
The best that I can come up with is that you stay closeted because of what gay people think of you for staying closeted. Of course, if you came out then gay people would accept you just fine, but you're ignoring that so you can avoid the truth: you're really staying closeted because of what straight people would think, and it scares you.
Let me clue you in, as someone who has actually come out of the closet: I stayed closeted because I was afraid of what everyone would think of me if I told them I was gay, and every other out-but- once-closeted gay person would say exactly the same thing. They'd also say they were in deep denial when they were closeted and that their perceptions were pretty screwed up while in that state.
No one stays closeted because of other gay people. That's a cop out. They stay closeted because of what most straight people think of gay people, and most straight people don't think very highly of gay people. Closeted gays, like the rest of us, learn this early and stay closeted out of fear.
What they miss, though, is that coming out and being visible changes minds and raises awareness. The vast majority of gay rights supporters have a close friend or relative who is gay, and acceptance of gay rights has increased with greater gay visibility and more out gay people.
But you go on arguing in circles and blaming those awful gays for keeping you closeted. You are a coward and a fool.
It's actually very selfish to think all closeted celebrities should come out for your own agenda and then label them cowards and fools. Nobody has time for that..if you knew how hard it was to build a career, if you really knew, then you'd understand.
Also, believe it or not, many artists don't identify with anything, and ARE fluid. Whether you believe I am or not doesn't matter, but everyone knows if a man were to say he is "fluid" everyone would say he came out as gay. Period.
[quote]It's actually very selfish to think all closeted celebrities should come out for your own agenda and then label them cowards and fools.
live and let live but they are all more malevolent than beneficent, that is simply fact.
I have a feeling that R108 is only a "celebrity" in his own mind, but defining himself this way justifies (in his mind) staying closeted. I notice he has self-consciously alluded to what he perceives as public interest in his sexuality more than once here. Yawn.
Wow, with 374 votes 24% of posters are what I would define as complete closet cases. None of you guys really want to share your story? Married? Ever wish you were out?
I'm with R58. These results explain a lot about this board.
r111, Im part of the 24%. Im 24 and only out to one friend who happens to be straight. I still only attract women, and it's frustrating when they flirt with me because I wish more guys would. I have to beat them off with a stick. I feel like Im invisible to gay men. I want to be in a relationship with a man before I come out to my family, preferably someone a little older than me. I dont want to do it alone, but it looks like thats what I will end up doing, soon. Im starting to hit the wall where it's slowing down my growth as an individual.
I've heard here that you stop being gay once you're about 30, then you just become invisible. That's why I understand why many gay & bisexual men end up closeted and married with children, the whole thing. Not nearly as much negativity associated with getting older in the straight world. It's so easy to get caught in that life because it is constantly thrown in your face. Well for some of us it is.
r108, so 'fluid' is just another silly and unnecessary term for bisexual? Why do people who say they oppose labels twist themselves in knots creating new ones? If I hear one more moron pull out the now standard 'Stop trying to fit me into some neatly defined label, sexuality is shades of grey'. Yes, we know that is the case for some poeple! If you're in the grey area then you are bisexual, simple. Stop trying to make it more than what it is.
A chance at real happiness is much better than wasting your life living a lie R113. It will eat you from the inside. God knows it isn't easy finding someone to love, but what rob yourself of the chance? And it is hard to have that chance if you aren't out.
Thank you for sharing.
R108, your agenda strikes me as shallow and self-serving, and it sounds as though you are willing to step on the backs of those around you to achieve your goals. After reading your posts here I agree with the other contributors that you sound very narcissistic; you also don't strike me as a true artist, by any measure.
How could you deduce true artistry based on anonymous postings on one topic on this board? If you think you can, I'd hate to hear the other things you think you're capable of....
I can tell that you are a shallow twat and being a shallow twat is not compatible with true artistry.
It's as simple as that.
r108, I believe it's a personal choice, regardless of what I think of someone's reasons (and some are more legitimate than others).
I do have a huge problem with successful actors who refuse to come out once they are financially secure many times over. Having kids as a part of the lie also offends me.
After a certain point, it's not about 'making it', it's about straight affirmation and adoration.
118, you just answered my thoughts and you aren't as intuitive as you'd like to think.
119 I hear you, but again, it's very narrow minded, for instance, to say that having kids is something you can't get behind. Many relationships, gay or straight, aren't necessarily founded on passion. some people just want kids and might not be doing it just to perpetuate a straight image alone.
But I do agree in a sense, if you have more money than God and are still living the charade, well, different story. I'm not quite there myself.
I don't feel any great obligation to the "community."
I am a gay man, I like gay men, I have fun and sex with them. I am out. My friends are a mix of gay and straight. I feel nothing for this "community" people rant about.
I'm 32. I didn't live through the AIDS crisis. Maybe I'm just not bonded. Try as I might I can't get romantic about this wonderful "community" and the "Brothers and Sisters" I keep hearing about.
Does anybody else feel that way?
R121 you are a smart guy
there is no community and brothers out there .
you're on your own
It's pretty rich to hear R120 calling anyone else "narrow miimded".
R121, in my experience, there is no singular community. But I live in Vancouver and the gay population here is large and diverse, so maybe I am misunderstanding your point. I do feel grateful to those who paved the way for me to live openly, and I feel solidarity with posters like the gent in Poland who is living in a far more homophobic culture than I have ever experienced. So I guess I feel a sense of community in that regard.
I meant to type "narrow minded" in the post above. Sorry.
I am out to my friends but closeted at work.
I do not live in a Western country. Homosexuality is not illegal here, but it is seen as bizarre and unnatural. Not getting married and having children is seen as failing in your obligations to society, so over-30 singles are rare. There are a couple of gay bars and clubs in this huge metropolis (with a police presense), and an active escort scene. There was recently a private underwear party where the attendees were arrested for lewd conduct.
While the mostly deeply-closeted gay community here tells themselves that it's getting better, and it probably is, I'm sure that being out would eventually lead to me being fired, for some fabricated excuse. At best, I have no doubt that my work environment would become far less comfortable, becoming the office leper.
BTW, I know a married couple, both gay. They met at work and are now Mr. and Mrs. They both have discreet romps. I wonder how long they can keep it up, but so far it was worked out fine for them.
Reading posts like R10 and R125 make the narcissistic drivel spouted by R64 and his ilk seem even more repugnant. Lots of interesting juxtapositions in this thread.
No I don't feel that way R121. I never did. I felt it was my responsibility to make a community. The complete absence of any such feeling on your part is curious because you claim to have same sex attraction and yet none of the affection for others one would expect from such an attraction.
"I can tell you from experience being an attractive bisexual male, the most un accepting group are out and proud gay men who use their "coming out" experience as the foundation of strength in their adult life, and judge anyone who doesn't do the same....and by doing so just show their fear that maybe they aren't what they thought they were or that life still moves on and it's really not that black and white."
I'm still fascinated by this rationalizing tool. The "worst" people are out and prouds judging you? That's so absurd that you have to have had a psychotic break with reality to entertain such a notion. Most probably he just means to be "shocking" in an adolescent "nanna nanna boo" way. Gay people afraid they aren't really gay, so wrapped up in their sexuality they can't be anything else? Oh my, what a lot of idiot drivel. I believe we have an authentic gay bashing down-low queen here who has never fessed up to his crimes.
Message to picked on bisexuals:
Gay people do not have any tools of power to discriminate against you. All they can do is criticize and "out." And if you are a proud bisexual, "outing" doesn't bother you. Criticism is something you have never ceased to give gay people one minute in your life and to get some of it back feels like a hate crime to you? Well, you deserve it then, buddy.
saddest thing i've ever seen on teh datalounge:
[quote]No, it is no one's business -- 14.318181818181818%
IT'S TWO THOUSAND FUCKING THIRTEEN BITCHES. GROW A PAIR AND LIVE YOUR LIVES AS PROUD GAY MEN.
Yeah I have to admit R131, I was surprised at the results, but I guess it makes sense that a lot of this board is closet cases.
Real men are open and honest, cowards hide and rationalize.
If you are not out entirely, you are still closeted. So, essentially, 41% of Datalounge is closeted. That explains a lot of homophobia in this place.
I wish gypsies would kidnap our closet cases and use them as sex slaves.
C'mon, R134, they're no closeted, they're fluid. *rolls eyes*
Well I do believe in the gay community. I believe we are all brothers and sisters under the skin, sharing the same struggles and battling the same enemies. I believe there is strength in numbers and power in visibility, and that we should all look out for each other and get each other's back in a fight.
I've felt this way since before I came out. I'm 44. I'm not saying that all gay people are saints or that I would trust a gay stranger anymore than a straight one, but I know that coming out and BEING out is a struggle and a risk, so I try to respect other out gay people. This is also what has fueled my gay rights activism.
Marry me R137
[quote]I can tell that you are a shallow twat and being a shallow twat is not compatible with true artistry.
[quote]It's as simple as that.
R118 has it exactly. Our vapid "labels are so out-dated" and "fluid" actor is no artist.
The one honest moment in all of his moronic posts was when he finally burst out with "if you only knew how hard it is to build a career" because that is the unvarnished and painful reality of it.
I understand that, I know it to be true and I sympathize. The rest of his rationalizing is pure drivel but I wish him well. With any luck, someday he won't hide who he really is anymore.
"labels are so outdated"....I meant it in terms of identification. I apologize I've never posted here really before and have only been an occasional reader, and honestly enjoy what people here have to say and get a kick out of it.
I didn't mean to come off so narcissistic and vapid, but maybe I really am, who knows...many people are, many actors starved for acceptance...not gonna cry about it or ask for pity.
Let me compare....peoples need to identify with someone is so strong. It's ego based and fear based and low self esteem based. I'm a vegan, I'm an alcoholic, I'm a victim, I'm gay, I'm bisexual, I'm a republican, I'm a Christian....on and on....it's just silly to me to have to profess it so strongly as if you need peoples acceptance of it to fortify your own belief in it.
All I meant was in terms of that....why identify...just like who you like and let that be that. I never said I was closeted I said I was lucky that most people assume I'm straight and I just let them, and I said as an actor that is just easier because I don't have to do fake things to lead people on....and with my friends they know what I do.
So much anger whenever this question gets posed. We were all in the closet once. I think it's sad that we've forgotten what a tough place it is to be and react to those in it, in any way, for any reason, with noting but scorn and bitterness. It seems to me one more barrier to them every getting out of it. When I meet closeted people I try to understand and I try to be the kind of out gay man that is the kind of person they'd hope to be surrounded by. The anger and viciousness around this question, on here, accomplishes nothing for anyone.
[quote]Well I do believe in the gay community. I believe we are all brothers and sisters under the skin, sharing the same struggles and battling the same enemies. I believe there is strength in numbers and power in visibility, and that we should all look out for each other and get each other's back in a fight.
Help me to understand then where the hatred and intolerance within this community comes from. Not only within, but it's difficult to know why one struggling group as a matter of course has no sympathy, empathy or understanding toward other struggling groups to the point of outright hostility?
Wow, 13%. That explains a lot.
[quote]The anger and viciousness around this question, on here, accomplishes nothing for anyone.
I think the anger is justified. The amount of homophobia and hate towards feminine gay men, or transgender people, or gay men in general, is like salt to a wound when you find out the homophobe is a closet case.
[quote]Help me to understand then where the hatred and intolerance within this community comes from. Not only within, but it's difficult to know why one struggling group as a matter of course has no sympathy, empathy or understanding toward other struggling groups to the point of outright hostility?
How about you help me understand why you judge an entire class of people by your negative experiences with a few, and why you assume every single member of the community "has no sympathy, empathy or understanding toward other struggling groups to the point of outright hostility?"
And your answer gets a big fat zero if it consists entirely of encounters within gay bars, with potential sex partners who rejected you, or any variation of the phrase "Datalounge says...".
I think some of you are not making a distinction that needs to be made. "Out of the closet" doesn't necessarily mean making "GAY" the crux of your identity.
I'm happily partnered for 17 years. I rarely go to gay bars. I have gay friends, but more straight friends. I'm not flamboyant or obvious in my sexuality (but don't judge those who are).
I am, however, completely open and honest about being a gay man. I will not lie, or hedge, about this. If I'm telling a story that involves my partner, I say "my partner". If someone asks a question about marriage, kids etc. I politely tell them I'm gay. If this is a cause of blushing or discomfort that is entirely the other persons problem. There is nothing wrong with being gay and I won't pretend there is in order not to offend another person's bigotry.
R146, I don't see anyone hear arguing otherwise. No one is claiming you need to go to gay bars and have all-gay friends to be considered out.
R125, if you are deeply closeted in a non-Western country with no out gay friends, where, when and how have you experienced the intolerance and hostility that you claim you received from "the gay community" at R142?
Agreed, R121. I'm completely out but I'm not bonded at all with the larger gay "community."